Thanks for putting this information out there. What people don't realize is that in collisions with a fatality, the police will do a complete and thorough investigation, including looking at the weight of the tow vehicle and trailer. If you are driving a mismatched vehicle, the LEAST you will get is to be cited. More likely, you can be criminally charged (usually a felony). Not only that, you might be driving out-of-class for your license. (Usually the jump point when needing to upgrade your license is if the trailer is rated at 10,000 pounds or over.) If this is the case, then you are treated as if you had no license at all. Additionally, your insurance company will jump on this to deny you any coverage since you weren't "licensed." These consequences can apply even if you are not at fault. Thanks and keep up the great videos.
S22ParaCop The only "upgrade" of license falls under commercial drivers license which is a vehicle totaling 26,000 or more on public highways. This is also exempt under the 250 mile radius farmers have.
Check with your State Troopers or Highway Patrol. They really know this stuff, especially the commercial enforcement guys. They can also explain the non-commercial A & B licenses that were basically created for the 5th wheel RV and trailer operators.
If everything is legal and there is an accident does the State pay? Does the man who says "you must do it this way" is he liable? If I follow all your advice, are you liable?
There's another dumbass comment from someone who doesn't pull a trailer with brakes. If you have a good brake controller box and experience in front of the trailer then anything being towed can be stopped
Scott Baker Trailers have drum brakes. These assist in stopping, but should be treated as just that, an assist. A dually one ton has a much safer and easier task of stopping a trailer that is heavier than the truck. Trailer brakes are best viewed as moderately supplemental.
Great advice. I have a 2015 F150, and bought a "half ton towable" 5th wheel thinking I could do it. I did the math and with the pin weight of 1600lbs I was too close to the 1900lb payload and over the rating of the factory tire. Ended up buying an old 96 F250 powerstroke with a 3000lb payload that is now enjoying her senior years as a tow vehicle.
I've watched many of these self-help youtube videos in my research. Several of them are yours. You do an exceptionally good job with your presentations. It seems to me that maybe you have professional training. Your preparation is apparent. The flow of the information you offer follows logical sequence and you avoid rambling on with nonsense where most amateurs lose it. Your speaking voice is clear and you pronounce your words clearly and properly. Keep up the good work. I appreciate your efforts.
On another note, my RAM 2500 has the identical axle, transmission, engine, springs, and brakes as the 3500, yet it is rated lower. Explain why this would make mine less safe?
30 year Service Manager with Ford, GM and Chrysler. None of them will ever change the weight rating on a truck. Also you may change suspensions with all kinds of aftermarket goodies but that doesn't change transmission, differentials and frames capacities. I've seen plenty of transmissions and differentials fail because of over weight trailers and the factories can and will not pay for the warranty repair to fix. If it's real serious they will void the warranty. My best advise is to never exceed 80% of the weight rating for safety and vehicle reliability sakes.
Don't the ratings have a built in safety buffer? Kinda like Scotty the engineer. He always padded the safety specifications to allow for special rigging.
If the 80% is the case, Ford screwed me then. My F-150 with tow package is rated at 7,350# GVWR. I just weighed my truck and with a full tank of fuel and no one in the truck weighed 6,200# !! 80% rule would be 5,880.... thanks Ford ….
Thanks. Making my long term plans. Since I have two.transmissions fail WITHOUT towing, both 97,000 miles or less, same manufacturer of the big 3, and have been planning on limiting dry weight to 60%. And people need to account for spare fuel tanks as well.
A little off topic, but have you ever wondered how many people have been maimed or killed because Uhaul, Penske, and the like rent F750 and International 4600 box trucks to just anybody who have a plain old drivers license and the money. I was 25 years old, and rented an International 4600 truck with a 26 foot van, along with a 18 foot trailer to haul a car on. They never asked the first question about whether I even knew how to crank it. Luckily, My grandfather was a trucker for 55 years, and my dad hauled hot shot from time to time. I had a good bit of knowledge from them. I had also owned a travel trailer and an F350 from the time I was 18. But they knew none of that. I took that rented rig on a 1200 mile trek, and arrived safely, but the whole time, all I could think was how most people have no idea how to operate something like that, and there is nothing to stop it from happening.
I had an F150, rated for 7600, tower a 6000lb camper and let me tell you: it was scary as hell. That camper pushed that truck’s rear all over the place. I don’t know how people tow at max or over, they must not care about their truck getting jostled every which way.
Just found your channel. Seriously considering getting a travel trailer to safely and comfortably tow behind my Ram 1500 Hemi. I've never been into rowing before, and your channel provides a lot of info I hadn't thought of before. Thanks a bunch!! Hoping I'll be able to find more info for beginning RV'ers.
I just stumbled on this video by accident, but the information was so important to ME who will be looking to tow stuff in the relative near future that I stayed to hear the whole thing. This (legality) is an aspect of towing I hadn't even thought of! Thank you so much for this very VALUABLE bit of information. I see much more research in my future!
Julie Stevens I am like you as I want to buy a small travel trailer and I did not know this.... I have been researching a lot of things and I found this video while researching and I am glad I did
The truck dealerships might add into this train of thought that you can tow more than the truck's rated capacity. Twice I have been on a Ford lot looking at F250s and the salesman has tried to talk me down to an F150, saying that the tow specification are actually "soft", and the truck can tow more than that.
Speaking as a professional trucker since 89; there is a slew of items that go into Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, just modifying the suspension fails to take into account all of the other factors that are important to maintaining vehicle control. Every part matters. There is also the idea that you don't just want the ability to haul a given item but that you have a substantial margin of overhead. It is that substantial margin of overhead that keeps you out of trouble.
Your video advice is great! Especially for the rolling idiots driving overloaded rv's etc. I want to add a few things, 1st, I run a 2005 f450 with a heavily modified 6.0 bullet proofed motor down to the block and a full Kelderman air ride system. I have a 18K 5th wheel and 3 kids. So I have a lot at stake and so should anyone else thinking of rolling that kind of weight. A lot of what you said is spot on advice and I could drag at 80mph all day... but is it safe? hell no. On a recent trip we pulled through and all over the smoky mountains and as the saying goes it's not the "pulling it's the stopping" 8-10% grades are brutal on the braking system, this should scare the hell out of everyone for good reason! Braking and torsion stability are the most crucial part of towing not pulling. Any trailer over 12K should be towed with a dually as the braking system is massive compare to a F250. It's all great until you have to dodge a semi or a car in front that does the stupid right in front of you... Just because you have extra springs etc. does not help one bit when the crap hits the fan, so to all you bright newbies and old salty's I strongly suggest studying the CDL hand book because most of it involves this type of hauling and safety procedures. These RV's and trucks are half the weight of a fully loaded semi and you would save a life to treat them as such.
SandmanFlorida all I can say after a career in fleet service: look at the brake part numbers for the whole brake system on a 1 ton and a 3/4 ton. What is the difference? For a lot of manufacturers, the answer is nothing. F450s have a 10 lug, but the physical rotor size, dimensions and brake between 250 and 350... not much. In fact, a couple years it’s the exact same part. The suspension is the difference, axles are the same.
@@marcgrundfest1495 between a 1 ton SRW, Dually and 3/4 ton... the parts for most are identical. Same size, same rotors. All of it. Unless you bought a 1-1/2 ton you don’t get bigger brakes. I know it’s upsetting but all the things you just mentioned. Identical. You get a different suspension.
How many times have you ever seen DOT weighing a non commercial camper? I can see them weighing the guys delivering new ones. My sister drove into a scale with their pickup and 5ver when they first got it. Cop came out and told not to ever enter a scale again.
I know that when I am ready to start towing my RV I am going to do a little overkill and buy a 3500 pickup or van, if it is even more feasible to get a 4500 then I may go that route. I have a 26ft trailer and I believe a 2500 should do the job, but I have a lot of stuff inside that trailer so I figure that bigger is going to be much better
Elizabeth Cherry lol show me a 26 foot travel trailer with enough cargo capacity to need more than a 3/4 ton pickup. If you actually had it loaded the way you described, the trailer itself would be overloaded.
Thx for your time and valuable info . . . I know my 2004 F250 SD Diesel pulls my 2005 Cougar 276 5th wheel easily & legally; but my planned upgrade to a Montana 3160, it will pull it but hitch weight will be illegal. I'm taking my truck (loaded for camping) to be scaled on Monday, then run the calcs. I pretty much know what is needed. It's nice that trolls watch your RUclips vids, but so sad they have no brains 😈
I would add that you also shouldn't necessarily believe what your travel trailer / 5th wheel trailer salesman tells you. Back in my young / dumber days, I had one tell me my '85 GMC S-15 with a little 2.8 V6 was OK to pull a full-sized 26' Komfort 5th wheel trailer. Found out real quick it wasn't.
I wish this video was published before I bought my current travel trailer. My truck does ok and little issues but I will be upgrading as soon as I can.
Something I don't think you mentioned is, your insurance most probably won't cover you if you have a wreck and your trailer weight is more than your TV is rated for.
Yes it will; this is one of the worst Internet myths around. Show me one actual example where some private party that was overloaded yet fully insured was denied coverage in an accident.
Charlie S If you get cited for being over weight and that is the reason you wrecked? No, most insurance companies will not cover that. If you're NOT cited the wreck was caused by other means then they will cover.
@Josh Salaets Please standby while holding your breath as this information is easily found... Here's the take away, in case you missed it. "TOW RESPONSIBLY!!" You're welcome.
Yes they will. It’s the same if you were driving under the influence. You were driving illegally, but they cover you. Or you ran a red light whick is illegal, guess what they still cover you. Speeding and get into an accident guess what? Covered.
Great advice and information. As the driver and operator of a vehicle, you assume all responsiblity for the safety of yourself and passengers, as well as others around you. As a Law Enforcement Officer, I have seen so many crashes that could have been avoided by just using the proper equipment that the manufacturer had set in place. Travel trailers pulling the tow vehicles into the ditch and pulling the vehicle into oncoming traffic, buy little more than a gust of wind. Improperly loaded trailers and payloads also cause catastrophic failure, even if they are within the rating of the vehicle. Modification to a vehicle may make the load more predictable and ride better under load but will not change the capacity of the vehicle. The frame, and transmission are still the same after the mods.
7:07 minutes in. "son, when you drive thru a yellah in my parish, yall better have all four of them wheels lock up" An actual judge stated when told the light was yellow and not red...hahahahahah
I love how your touting an add a leaf, lift blocks, and a set of shocks as major suspension enhancements. The blocks especially are a terrible idea for anything other than a grocery getting pavement queen. If you tow with them you add a lot of stress into your leaf springs and driveline causing premature driveline failure and spring wrap.
Great comments, I could not agree more. In my RAM 3500 dually with a 3700 lb truck camper, I just returned from Minnesota ice fishing this January and hit crosswinds gusting up to 30-40mph range on I-80. I had to lower my speed to 50mph and I was still being pushed all over the road. Even semis reduced their speed likewise. I believe in a lesser truck (2500 or 1500) with the same payload these crosswinds would have been even more dangerous and I would have had to suspend travel for a couple of days. BTW, the camper dealer told me that this camper was so light, that all I needed was a 3/4 pickup. I am so glad that I got the biggest, heaviest, and most capable pickup for my truck camper.
People think their truck is all big and bad "My truck can tow blah blah blah".... they don't realize that some trailers weigh TWICE as much as some trucks. 5th wheels can up to weigh 17,000lbs dry. Don't underestimate your tow capabilities because you got faith in your truck, do some research. Like watch this guys videos for example.
i do not have a vehicle yet but want to know what you think would be a good vehicle to have to pull a 7 x 12' trailer built out to a living in trailer?
People do not car. People are selfish and not at all considerate of other's. They act as if they own the road. I see it all the time. I tend to think 70% of people ont he road have no business having driver licenses.
You are 100% correct. They way they drive where I live even further proves your statement. Not only that they are impatient and don't pay any attention to what they're doing most of the time worse now with cell phones and the damn touch screen tablets built into most of today's vehicles to further distract them...and Tesla in the UK just got a kick in the pants for their touch screen activated windshield wipers on vehicles sold in the UK...I really hope the US catches up with that and requires auto companies to get rid of that touch screen garbage, or at least make it so none of the vehicle operation systems are ran through the touch screen, and that the touch screen isn't usable when vehicle is in gear.
In the end, the time, effort and cost spent to enhance a f250 or 2500 isn't worth it. Might as well get a 1 ton or 450 if the goal is a large 5th wheel or TT.
With prices the way they are, anyone in the market for a new 250/2500 should be getting a SRW one-ton anyway. $2000 extra gets you almost double the payload.
Biggest problem with a 450 or 550 is everything is a lot more expensive, and there isn't a lot of aftermarket replacement parts available, so things like brake pads are considerable more expensive
The cost difference between my '16 F350 vs a F250 was within a couple hundred bucks. I custom ordered mine and "build and priced" both. Jumping to the F350 option was less than my optioned auxiliary cab heater, and WAY less than the useless sunroof option for $950+.
Other issues to owning a 1-ton vs a 3/4 ton is many states tax and register one ton's or trucks with greater than 10K lb GVWR differently. This is why many of the truck makers offer a payload package just under 10K pounds. I believe Ford is a 9900lb payload package. The truck is mechanically no different, but will legally be registered at 9900 or 10K pounds.
Also, the frame stays the same. You will bring the mechanical capability of the frame beams and welds further into the safety margin and in a very serious situation, they will fail sooner.
I'm on the market for a diesel truck and researsching all the capacities for the trucks. I'm amazed and how oblivious some people are to their payload capacities. I just got a 40ft 5th wheel that has a dry pin weight of 2560lbs!! That weight alone meets or exceeds the payloads of most 3/4 tons. I drive around the park I live at and I ask truck owners about their trucks and if they recommend it. Most of them have 2500s or F250s and trailers comparable to mine. They claim their truck can pull their 16000lb trailer, which it can, but when I ask them about payload they have no clue, or assume its good since their truck can pull it. These people are maxing out their trucks payload without realizing it or caring.
Way over Max 2:42 in this video ruclips.net/video/tocXIo2ltgM/видео.html GVWR is 10,000lbs, 2015 F250 CC 4x4 Lariat pin weight is around 3,800lbs. Max cargo with diesel is around 2,000lbs
5 dot officers confirmed that first and foremost they look at tire rating, 2nd they look at axle spacing, 3rd they look at registered weight to the truck/trailer. 4th they look at over all appearance of the payload and make a personal judgment call on weather or not it's safe or not. All I'm saying is that I pull a 10,000 empty gooseneck and load 15 to 19k on it daily with a ram 3500 drw without any attention despite my 24k "manufacturer max tow rating"
I agree tires and licensed GVW are what DOT look for on pickups from 1 tons down down. I agree with the vid mainly because I have pulled overloaded trailers all my life and most people don't have the experience to do what we do. Good trailer brakes cannot be over emphasized when towing over capacity loads. I don't really trust electric and went to hydraulic. At first vac over hydraulic them electric over hydraulic. I don't know about the legal aspects as I have never had a serious accident. I have know a couple guys that had accidents pulling gooseneck loads of cattle and they didn't get into trouble because they were grossly overloaded. Get over 1 ton and you are in a different ballgame and you will get thorough DOT inspections.
This past summer I was hauling some solar panel hardware for a guy, not a big load at all, probably a couple thousand pounds worth on my equipment trailer. I got pulled over by a DOT cop. He asked me if I was doing this for hire. if so I needed DOT numbers on the truck. Then he asked what the GVW was on the trailer. I told him 14,000 Lbs. He asked about the GVW on the truck I told him 11,300 Lbs. He said if I was over 26,000 Lbs. total, truck and trailer, I'd need a class A (trailer truck) license even if I was empty. I told him I was just helping this guy on the side. He held up his hands and said "don't tell me that!" He said if you're making ANY money with the truck you need DOT numbers. That means all these lawn mower guys of which I'm one, Bush Hog guys that trailer their tractors etc. Anybody that makes money using their pick up in any way, either loading the truck, pulling a trailer or anything else is supposed to have DOT numbers on the TRUCK, not trailer. This is New York State by the way. He was really good about it. He also said that if I had a trailer rated for 15,000 Lbs. even if it wasn't loaded to capacity, I'd be driving out of class, they go by the GVW on the vehicle sticker, not what it's registered for or the load on the trailer.
We aren't going to get a new truck (Toyota Tundra), but we're going to get a very lightweight travel trailer (under 4K). Thanks for all the great info and the responsible attitude.
All good commentary, except you leave out the physics and math that really matters. What a vehicle is 'rated' to carry is largely driven by marketing. For example, almost ALL mid-size sedans sold in Europe (BMW, Jaguar, etcetera) are rated to tow. Specific example: a 2009 BMW E90 diesel is rated to tow 1775 Kg (3905 lbs) at 175Kg tongue load max (385 lbs) in various European markets, when outfitted with the OEM-designed hitch (they call it a tow bar). On this side of the pond, the exact same car made in the exact same factory to the exact same specs is rated to tow....wait for it....zero lbs. Yes, zero. Not for liability or because we don't know how to hitch or any of that BS. It's only, ONLY because BMW would far prefer to sell you a $75,000 SUV to tow your measly little garden trailer. It's PURELY driven by profit margins. Don't believe the propaganda! Find your vehicles' maximum tow ratings in any market in the world, and THAT is its true, ENGINEERING limit, versus the marketing limit. Having said that, there is one big caveat: the hitch (tow bar) designed in THAT market should be used. I know for BMW, the factory/OEM designed hitch is MASSIVELY better than any American aftermarket hitch. Generally, 90% of the hitches I see on trucks here in America 'looks' beefy, but is pretty dumbly designed and puts stress where it shouldn't. I laugh every time I see a GARGANTUAN F350 towing an itty-bitty little toy trailer weighing *maybe* 1800 lbs. So ridiculous! The right answer, as always, isn't a 'rule of thumb' people love to believe, it's "it depends." I'm just saying: do your homework and don't take anyone's word for it. Run the numbers and see what you can carry within factory limits, then buy that factory-designed 'good stuff' and stay in those limits.
Really great advice. I checked everything and decided for now after not towing for 12 years to keep it well under the load limit. I don't care it takes time to get used to pulling and all the variables that go into it as well. I'd rather be as safe as possible than try to impress someone with our trailer.
Thank you. My husband loves his ram 1500. And we’re considering a travel trailer. And now he agrees that a 25 ft max 6500 max gvwc is our max. Small trailer for just the two of us, but if it’s better, safer, that’s the point.
Also, don't listen to the car salesman. Mine swore up and down it was fine to pull my 18000 lb gooseneck horse trailer with my 2500. Yes. The truck can pull it but I'm maxed out on specs. He couldn't understand why I was insisting on buying a one ton.
You are correct about the legal weight limits of a vehicle BUT, there are TWO weight limits GVWR is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer[1] including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but EXCLUDING THAT OF ANY TRAILERS. THIS, was the numbers you were showing at around the 2:00 mark. The weight of a vehicle is influenced by passengers, cargo, even fuel level, so a number of terms are used to express the weight of a vehicle in a designated state. Gross combined weight rating (GCWR) refers to the total mass of a vehicle, INCLUDING ALL TRAILERS and is usually NOT on the door tags but in the vehicle manual. You did a good job of explaining that mods do not change the legal GCWR or the GVWR, but you confused the viewer because you did not differentiate the two ratings. Ref: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_vehicle_weight_rating
I had a friend who went to a RV dealership and picked out a very nice one. The dealer asked what he was going to tow it with. He said his Chevy 1500. He refused to sell it to him because of the danger. I mean this RV was huge. They talked for a while and basically told him the same thing you’re saying. My friend went and bought a Ford F-350 with all the bells and whistles for towing then went back and bought the RV. He said the dealer was surprised to see him again because most just go to another dealer who only cares about the money.
When a manufacturer brags about max payload capacities it is usually for the regular cab 2 wheel drive dually. Add more doors and a transfer case or a bumper and winch and that all takes away from payload. Add your mother inlaw and and you might as well just pay someone else to haul it.
Don't exceed 10k. Specification say 12k but better safe than sorry. Alot of people don't keep in mind all the stuff they travel with. Propane tanks, clothes, dishes, extra people, electronics, etc... It all adds up.
double w So your saying that a 2003 youkon XL 2wd can tow 10k but does that include 5500lbs of my youkon so tow amount would be 10k minus youkon for total of 4500 ? And what about adding young weight ?
Not to mention you can get sued to the hills if you get into an accident and your are over weight..plus your insurance probably will not cover the accident if you are legally over weight. Just something to think about.
Just subbed your channel. I have s 12,000lbs tandem ax trailer, tongue hitch. My tow rig is a 1500 Silverado and it feels sketchy with just the trailer. I want to upgrade my truck. Any suggestions? Good video BTW,very eye opening.🖒
Depends on how much you tow and where. If I'm towing in high elevation.. I live at 7000 ft so non turbo gas rigs loose 30% or so power. The turbo diesel is hardly affected and pulls way better... at a much higher cost. if you don't pull all the time buy gas. way less up front and way more quiet. I have diesel because where I live and I got a killer deal.
Speaking of following the law: check out Texas Transportation Code, Title 7, Sec. 545.051. You violated the law for the first half of your video. Just sayin' ;-)
All this talk about tickets for being overweight is, as far as I know in ANY state, bullshit. If you're NOT FOR HIRE, weight limits don't apply....... for ticketing purposes. That said, get in a wreck and you can damn sure bet that the lawyers and insurance adjusters will have a field day if you're running over capacity. But tickets for being over weight.....NOPE.
I'd like to know what diesel truck could pull a 25 foot Airstream Flying Cloud FB? I'd like a comfortable cabin with a lot of safety amenities...thanks
my truck can handle most towing things. however I would like to add that the trailer has limits as well. and I was trained to handle a trailer. I see a lot of people who have no idea how to drive with a trailer. you made a lot of excellent points thank you
Another thing you forgot to say is when people put on aftermarket bumpers, bull bars, cattle catchers and over kill winches that weight 100's of pounds over the stock bumpers plus all of these lights that people want to compete with the sun and other things weigh 100's need to subtract from the sticker on payload capacity.
Might want to add the weight of yourself to that brother. You may never want to step foot in a truck again.... Also you mention lights. Without lights I am not legally allowed to operate my business the way I do. I need emergency lightbars and warning lights on all angles of my trucks as we make frequent stops. What should I do just not run my business because of a 30lb light bar? And Id say thats pushing the weight.
Manufacturers include a 150lb weight allowance for the driver when determining advertised payload, anything above that does need to be counted against payload. Gary is not saying that you shouldn't run your business, rather that you should remember to count your extra lighting against payload. When in doubt, you can always hand-calculate. For example, my truck has a 6500lb GVWR, with 3250 for each axle. Its curb weight (full fluids and a 150lb driver) is 4400lbs. Knowing this, I can tell you that my legal payload is up to 2100lbs, assuming it is properly distributed to avoid overloading the axles. If I were to add a headache rack with a lightbar, and a nice beefy ladder rack that added up to 400lbs of steel, my legal payload is now 1700lbs, because I've added 400lbs to the weight of the truck without any changes to the ratings.
i know this first hand i had to pull a skid steer a few miles down the road (94 f150 with about 20,000lb hooked to bumper) you can move a lot more than you sould, it only cost me a set rear bearings, all the brakes, i coulden stop, steering was tricky (locker in the back). your little 1/2 ton is more capabule than you think, but think before you do it, i am luckly i diden wreck it. dont be a dumbass use the right tool for the job.
As a Tow Truck operator (retired) I 100% agree with what the information in this video! I Really enjoy watching all of your videos (the ones I have seen), you are VERY informative.
Sandra Westley from the UK yes the dealership just want the sale, some have a conscious and would sell something dangerous, but that does depend on his bonus, I expect
Recently, for my business I purchased a 2014 Chevy Silverado 3500HD 4 wheel (Not dually) 2 wheel drivequad cab (4 door) long bed (8ft) 6.6L 'Duramax'/Isuzu diesel. As far as I know, but not sure due to ignorance it is a stock vehicle stating 17,800 pounds tow cap. What is the LONGEST I'd want to tow with this vehicle? Also have heard the california law doesn't actually show the 'real' capacity of it's capabilities though don't plan on getting a16K pound trailer. I've got the 'decked' and 'ARE' set up for work so 5th wheel is not something I'll be looking to purchase due to the bed tooling I've got. What do you recommend I pull as a maximum weight/ length on this vehicle? Thank you in advance.
You make conflicting statements. You talk about upgrades that make it so you can safely tow more. But make the point that its still illegal (I've been asking for applicable law for non-cmv going over the sticker). Then you talk about not being safe. Its one or the other.
You may upgrade tires, suspension, engine and transmission to allow towing greater weights. But you are still limited by chassis design and the axles themselves. This too is taken into consideration when rating towing capacity.
Nice discussion. I remember when I was 26 years old and was helping a friend. That was 33 years ago. He had bought a load of cement block to build a small room for his water tank and pump. We loaded the block even with my cab on my 1964 Ford F250 and when I went across a rail road track the front wheels were not touching the pavement. It's a good thing we only had to go maybe 3 miles to his house and he lived out in the country. This discussion is a good reminder it is better to be safe than sorry.
well said man! A bit part of it from what I see is stability. theres a reason semi trucks way over 20,000lb and have 8 drive tires. It's all about controlling the weight you're moving. It just like how you don't try to push an 8000lb truck around by hand without someone ready to hit the brakes in the driver seat
You can also pay the DMV more money and they will give you a magic wand and upgrade the GVW of your vehicle. From the factory my 2012 Ram 2500 is limited to 9500 lbs GVW, yet the DMV has a GVW of 12,564 lbs on the registration.
I pull my RV around using my 2006 Honda TRX450 four wheeler, works great! The engine struggles a bit and the brakes dont work, but brakes are for pussies anyways. Once you get going though it rides pretty good! For the chains and lights I just leave them dangling since my 4 wheeler doesnt have a receptacle for the chains or an electronic brake / signalling light system
I completely agree with advising people not to tow more than their vehicle is capable of. However I'm having a hard time understanding this. The GVWR is the amount of weight you can put on the vehicle itself. Being the vehicles weight, fuel, passengers, cargo and trailer tongue weight. But it's not actually calculating in your tow capacity?
Rich Miller Exactly what I'm struggling with. It's hard to understand (for me at least) the towing capacity and everything with how complicated they make the ratings.
You also need to understand what the GCWR is. That is the total weight you are allowed to have with truck, trailer, persons, toys, dogs, soda pops, water, fuel. Every ounce that is on the truck, trailer, hitch all needs to be under what the manufacturer states on the tag.
Rich Miller The GVWR, Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, is the total safe weight limit of the towing vehicle with fuel, occupants, implements, attachments and cargo as set by the vehicle manufacture. This rating is absolute and remains the same regardless of enhancements, improvements or upgrades. The unladen empty weight of the vehicle, sometimes referred to as curb weight, subtracted from the GVWR is the vehicle total payload. This amount is diminished by each and every thing added to the vehicle that was not installed by the manufacturer, for example, winches, winch bumpers, roll bars, steps or snow plows and the like. Vehicles also have a GAWR which is the Gross Axle Weight Rating which must be considered when loading the vehicle. All weight applied above and to the rear of the rear axle is considered applied to the rear axle and therefore must be applied to the rear axle weight rating and the same for the front axle. The towing capacity is how much weight the vehicle can safely control on a trailer including the weight of the trailer. Note that a properly loaded trailer has 60% of the weight evenly distributed between the tongue and the axle and the remainder from the axle back which adds weight to the towing vehicle and therefore has to be accounted for in the GVWR to remain legal. Therefore if you have a 7000 pound GVWR and an empty weight of 4800 pounds you can place 2200 pounds, aka payload, in the tow vehicle. If you are towing a trailer that has a loaded weight of 5000 pounds and 60% is between the tongue and axle you have to account for the additional weight placed on the tow vehicle and subtract that amount from the payload.
Ok so move stuff around so that the weight on the vehicle is right. You want some pressure to keep traction for breaking but not too much as to bounce off the frame.
I haul for a living & I rarely will pull a heavier trailer so I can make my truck last longer. I have a 2011 dodge ram 3500 dually. I know what my weight is on it. 12500 lbs. & my truck weighs 9600 lbs with me in it & fueled up. I am plated at 26,000lbs. The 12500 lbs would mean my steers & tandems wheels weighed together. Meaning I could put as much on the ball of hitch 2900 lbs that is it.
As a professional driver I have to agree with this guy. Not because I believe we should pay attention to anything our government says, but because likely 95% of people don’t really know how to drive a car, much less have the ability to properly operate a vehicle not conducive to safely towing a lot of weight. I live right off I-17 through Black Canyon City AZ. About 80 miles or less from flagstaff. No joke there’s a wreck every single day on that route and almost every night. It’s because of people not understanding the laws of physics and mechanics. A bunch of those wrecks are caused by small pickups hauling camper trailers.
I worked for the largest truck rental, sales, lease, logistics company in the US for almost 21 years. Knew all about weight ratings. Ordered a 2015 Silverado 2500 HD Duramax 4X4 based on CHEVY'S towing specs. What a bunch of bull.... ALL of the truck mfgs. were and are guilty of trying to be top dog in the towing categories. My truck is stock except for a factory sprayed in bedliner and the AMP Inc. power steps. I knew I was never going to get a HUGE 5th wheel because for just my wife and myself, just didn't need or want a massive one. I took my truck to a CAT scale to weigh it, with myself and my wife on board as it would be when traveling, and full of diesel. I was stunned. It weighed 8,140 lbs. It has a 10,000 lb GVWR. Sooooooo...........that leaves only 1,860 lbs that can be added legally. Add a 5th wheel hitch and maybe some firewood or something and you are down to the 1, 700 range. Getting any decent 5th wheel with that low of a pin weight is almost impossible. I have a travel trailer now, and will probably just stay with one. Frees up the bed and the tongue towing is nowhere near weight problem. It is very confusing for the average person, but they should educate themselves. I try to tell people that you can put a 200 lb person in a little red wagon and PULL them easily, but you can't put that same 200 lb person on your back or shoulders and CARRY them. Same with trailer towing. Thankfully the manufacturers are now going to the SAE J2807 standard towing specs which should maybe at least bring some fairness and accuracy to the game, but the mfgs. will always try to fudge.
Bill C. I agree with you Bill, it's hard for most people to understand the weight capacity of their trucks, I was at an RV show this weekend and this guy was trying to explain to me that a 2500 could pull a 15,000 pound trailer a complete misunderstanding and he is selling them.
In my opinion don't confuse Cargo Carrying Capacity with Pin weight. I have a 2015 Duramax High Country and it weighs about 8,100 lbs full of fuel with me and the wife in it. You have to look at Gross Combined Weight Rating which is 24,500 minus what your truck weighs and that leaves about 16,400 not counting a fifth wheel hitch. General motors specs a fifth wheel capacity of 17,100 and I don't agree. The difference is your trailer or your fifth wheel has brakes. When you talk about Cargo Carrying Capacity that is your truck bed full of stuff or a truck camper and you have to stop it. The weak link is your tire rating, take a look and do the math. A slightly higher rated tire will give you another 1,000 lbs. Also in my opinion that sticker on the door is how your truck was rated as delivered to you, I agree it can't be changed but you have to live with your decision. I personally am looking at a fifth wheel which has a gross weight of 15.,000 lbs with a dry pin weight of 2,500 lbs along with a new set of tires which I will need soon. I spent a month on the road in January with my 8,000 lb travel trailer and I looked at all the fifth wheel tow vehicles which were for the most part 3/4 ton trucks. A couple of days ago I looked up the rear axle capacity (not the sticker) and standing on its own the 14 bolt AAM 11.5 inch is rated at 10,000 lbs Good luck.
Gary, I believe Bill is talking about when adding tongue weight or fifth wheel weight of a trailer to a truck that is 1700 lbs away from being over weight. I tie a 16' trailer with 2 5200 lbs rated axels to be safe on what I will load it up with. I am buying a f450 to be safe because the trailer will be connect M-F without being disconnected. I have plans to get a 14K lbs Kubota skidsteer with attachments. To tow on a 4500 lbs trailer. To be safe I over killed it so I don't have to worry. Plan safe+Drive Safe
I couldn’t get past 3 min of this video brother. Its not about ego it’s about economy. A F150 is much cheaper than a F350 Dually. Get off your high horse. Everyone’s risk/reward mitigation is different. If you want to talk about why it’s not a good idea to exceed the capacities because of fact then do so but don’t assume it’s because of egos.
Thanks for putting this information out there. What people don't realize is that in collisions with a fatality, the police will do a complete and thorough investigation, including looking at the weight of the tow vehicle and trailer. If you are driving a mismatched vehicle, the LEAST you will get is to be cited. More likely, you can be criminally charged (usually a felony).
Not only that, you might be driving out-of-class for your license. (Usually the jump point when needing to upgrade your license is if the trailer is rated at 10,000 pounds or over.) If this is the case, then you are treated as if you had no license at all.
Additionally, your insurance company will jump on this to deny you any coverage since you weren't "licensed." These consequences can apply even if you are not at fault.
Thanks and keep up the great videos.
S22ParaCop
only required if the trailer is over 10,000 GVWR and the GCWR exceeds 26,000.
S22ParaCop The license part doesnt qualify for farmers and the 250mile exempt laws in place.
S22ParaCop The only "upgrade" of license falls under commercial drivers license which is a vehicle totaling 26,000 or more on public highways. This is also exempt under the 250 mile radius farmers have.
Check with your State Troopers or Highway Patrol. They really know this stuff, especially the commercial enforcement guys. They can also explain the non-commercial A & B licenses that were basically created for the 5th wheel RV and trailer operators.
Plus your insurance rates could go up or canceled..just sayin'
This helped me convince my wife that we NEED a new RAM 3500 HD Dually to tow our 4000lb travel trailer.
You know.....margin of safety.
Factory400 😂
Lol, that's a victory!
RAM 3500 SRW as my first towing truck ... still affords me many choices in the realm of safety and rigs.
🤣
😀😀😀
If everything is legal and there is an accident does the State pay? Does the man who says "you must do it this way" is he liable? If I follow all your advice, are you liable?
It's not how much you can tow, it's how much you can stop!
Mike Farinella not if the trailer has it's own brakes...
trailer brakes can be sketchy themselves. Do not rely on them totally.
rev9fan1 go tell that to the family of 5 you just killed......because you can’t stop.....
There's another dumbass comment from someone who doesn't pull a trailer with brakes. If you have a good brake controller box and experience in front of the trailer then anything being towed can be stopped
Scott Baker Trailers have drum brakes. These assist in stopping, but should be treated as just that, an assist. A dually one ton has a much safer and easier task of stopping a trailer that is heavier than the truck.
Trailer brakes are best viewed as moderately supplemental.
Don't worry about how much weight you can pull or sit level with. Worry about how much you can turn and stop. That's a LOT less than you can pull.
Great advice. I have a 2015 F150, and bought a "half ton towable" 5th wheel thinking I could do it. I did the math and with the pin weight of 1600lbs I was too close to the 1900lb payload and over the rating of the factory tire. Ended up buying an old 96 F250 powerstroke with a 3000lb payload that is now enjoying her senior years as a tow vehicle.
I've watched many of these self-help youtube videos in my research. Several of them are yours. You do an exceptionally good job with your presentations. It seems to me that maybe you have professional training. Your preparation is apparent. The flow of the information you offer follows logical sequence and you avoid rambling on with nonsense where most amateurs lose it. Your speaking voice is clear and you pronounce your words clearly and properly. Keep up the good work. I appreciate your efforts.
Just because you can do something...... doesn't mean you should.
that's basically what Jeff Goldblum's character said in Jurassic Park Video
On another note, my RAM 2500 has the identical axle, transmission, engine, springs, and brakes as the 3500, yet it is rated lower. Explain why this would make mine less safe?
30 year Service Manager with Ford, GM and Chrysler. None of them will ever change the weight rating on a truck. Also you may change suspensions with all kinds of aftermarket goodies but that doesn't change transmission, differentials and frames capacities. I've seen plenty of transmissions and differentials fail because of over weight trailers and the factories can and will not pay for the warranty repair to fix. If it's real serious they will void the warranty. My best advise is to never exceed 80% of the weight rating for safety and vehicle reliability sakes.
Don't the ratings have a built in safety buffer? Kinda like Scotty the engineer. He always padded the safety specifications to allow for special rigging.
If the 80% is the case, Ford screwed me then. My F-150 with tow package is rated at 7,350# GVWR. I just weighed my truck and with a full tank of fuel and no one in the truck weighed 6,200# !! 80% rule would be 5,880.... thanks Ford ….
Thanks. Making my long term plans. Since I have two.transmissions fail WITHOUT towing, both 97,000 miles or less, same manufacturer of the big 3, and have been planning on limiting dry weight to 60%. And people need to account for spare fuel tanks as well.
My dad sold RV's and had the same 80% rule for his customers. He would not sell them anything that was more than 80% tow capacity.
2000-2010 Ford F150 and a F350 often have the exact same engine and the exact same transmission
A little off topic, but have you ever wondered how many people have been maimed or killed because Uhaul, Penske, and the like rent F750 and International 4600 box trucks to just anybody who have a plain old drivers license and the money. I was 25 years old, and rented an International 4600 truck with a 26 foot van, along with a 18 foot trailer to haul a car on. They never asked the first question about whether I even knew how to crank it. Luckily, My grandfather was a trucker for 55 years, and my dad hauled hot shot from time to time. I had a good bit of knowledge from them. I had also owned a travel trailer and an F350 from the time I was 18. But they knew none of that. I took that rented rig on a 1200 mile trek, and arrived safely, but the whole time, all I could think was how most people have no idea how to operate something like that, and there is nothing to stop it from happening.
Bilstein 5100 series shocks make a dramatic difference in how smooth the Super Duty trucks ride.
I had an F150, rated for 7600, tower a 6000lb camper and let me tell you: it was scary as hell. That camper pushed that truck’s rear all over the place. I don’t know how people tow at max or over, they must not care about their truck getting jostled every which way.
Just found your channel. Seriously considering getting a travel trailer to safely and comfortably tow behind my Ram 1500 Hemi. I've never been into rowing before, and your channel provides a lot of info I hadn't thought of before. Thanks a bunch!! Hoping I'll be able to find more info for beginning RV'ers.
I just stumbled on this video by accident, but the information was so important to ME who will be looking to tow stuff in the relative near future that I stayed to hear the whole thing. This (legality) is an aspect of towing I hadn't even thought of! Thank you so much for this very VALUABLE bit of information. I see much more research in my future!
Julie Stevens I am like you as I want to buy a small travel trailer and I did not know this....
I have been researching a lot of things and I found this video while researching and I am glad I did
The truck dealerships might add into this train of thought that you can tow more than the truck's rated capacity. Twice I have been on a Ford lot looking at F250s and the salesman has tried to talk me down to an F150, saying that the tow specification are actually "soft", and the truck can tow more than that.
Thats pretty sketchy
i would run real fast from a dealer like that......
Ask them to "Put it in writing" and see where the conversation goes. HA!
They do that because they make more commission on the lighter trucks they have more room to push numbers around.
DargoDog p
Another important overlooked issue is tire capacity and air pressures. A lot of people don't have a clue.
Yea and that's why that information is printed on the tire.
tire speed rating too
Speaking as a professional trucker since 89; there is a slew of items that go into Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, just modifying the suspension fails to take into account all of the other factors that are important to maintaining vehicle control. Every part matters. There is also the idea that you don't just want the ability to haul a given item but that you have a substantial margin of overhead. It is that substantial margin of overhead that keeps you out of trouble.
I love that the moral is…just because you can, does not mean you should…thank you…
Your video advice is great! Especially for the rolling idiots driving overloaded rv's etc. I want to add a few things, 1st, I run a 2005 f450 with a heavily modified 6.0 bullet proofed motor down to the block and a full Kelderman air ride system. I have a 18K 5th wheel and 3 kids. So I have a lot at stake and so should anyone else thinking of rolling that kind of weight. A lot of what you said is spot on advice and I could drag at 80mph all day... but is it safe? hell no. On a recent trip we pulled through and all over the smoky mountains and as the saying goes it's not the "pulling it's the stopping" 8-10% grades are brutal on the braking system, this should scare the hell out of everyone for good reason! Braking and torsion stability are the most crucial part of towing not pulling.
Any trailer over 12K should be towed with a dually as the braking system is massive compare to a F250. It's all great until you have to dodge a semi or a car in front that does the stupid right in front of you... Just because you have extra springs etc. does not help one bit when the crap hits the fan, so to all you bright newbies and old salty's I strongly suggest studying the CDL hand book because most of it involves this type of hauling and safety procedures. These RV's and trucks are half the weight of a fully loaded semi and you would save a life to treat them as such.
SandmanFlorida all I can say after a career in fleet service: look at the brake part numbers for the whole brake system on a 1 ton and a 3/4 ton.
What is the difference? For a lot of manufacturers, the answer is nothing.
F450s have a 10 lug, but the physical rotor size, dimensions and brake between 250 and 350... not much. In fact, a couple years it’s the exact same part. The suspension is the difference, axles are the same.
@@roundsm18
How about break cooling..? Or contact patch size..or how about center of mass?
Any of these ring a bell ? ...
@@marcgrundfest1495 between a 1 ton SRW, Dually and 3/4 ton... the parts for most are identical. Same size, same rotors. All of it. Unless you bought a 1-1/2 ton you don’t get bigger brakes. I know it’s upsetting but all the things you just mentioned. Identical. You get a different suspension.
I understand 'maximum'towing capacity,but can someone PLEASE explain to me what 'mininum' towing capacity is.
The NV 3500 v6 has a 9,ooo lb max but it has a 5,ooo lb min.
As a X Truck driver your video was VERY well explained!!!! nice job.
How many times have you ever seen DOT weighing a non commercial camper? I can see them weighing the guys delivering new ones.
My sister drove into a scale with their pickup and 5ver when they first got it. Cop came out and told not to ever enter a scale again.
recreational vehicles are typically given a lot of leniency on weight as well as tandems
I know that when I am ready to start towing my RV I am going to do a little overkill and buy a 3500 pickup or van, if it is even more feasible to get a 4500 then I may go that route. I have a 26ft trailer and I believe a 2500 should do the job, but I have a lot of stuff inside that trailer so I figure that bigger is going to be much better
Elizabeth Cherry lol show me a 26 foot travel trailer with enough cargo capacity to need more than a 3/4 ton pickup. If you actually had it loaded the way you described, the trailer itself would be overloaded.
Thx for your time and valuable info . . . I know my 2004 F250 SD Diesel pulls my 2005 Cougar 276 5th wheel easily & legally; but my planned upgrade to a Montana 3160, it will pull it but hitch weight will be illegal. I'm taking my truck (loaded for camping) to be scaled on Monday, then run the calcs. I pretty much know what is needed.
It's nice that trolls watch your RUclips vids, but so sad they have no brains 😈
In asia a honda cub can handle several tonnes
I would add that you also shouldn't necessarily believe what your travel trailer / 5th wheel trailer salesman tells you. Back in my young / dumber days, I had one tell me my '85 GMC S-15 with a little 2.8 V6 was OK to pull a full-sized 26' Komfort 5th wheel trailer. Found out real quick it wasn't.
I wish this video was published before I bought my current travel trailer. My truck does ok and little issues but I will be upgrading as soon as I can.
If you going to tow 18,000 lbs get yourself a F 350 or a Ram 3500 better and more secured. I tow a 8900 lbs but I buy a F250 which is good enough.
very good video! love the pictures that show exactly what you're talking about, and very useful information from beginning to end!
Don't forget about the lawsuit that will inevitably ensue any accident that may happen if you are found to be over weight.
Something I don't think you mentioned is, your insurance most probably won't cover you if you have a wreck and your trailer weight is more than your TV is rated for.
Yes it will; this is one of the worst Internet myths around. Show me one actual example where some private party that was overloaded yet fully insured was denied coverage in an accident.
Charlie S If you get cited for being over weight and that is the reason you wrecked? No, most insurance companies will not cover that. If you're NOT cited the wreck was caused by other means then they will cover.
@Josh Salaets Please standby while holding your breath as this information is easily found...
Here's the take away, in case you missed it. "TOW RESPONSIBLY!!"
You're welcome.
my TV is rated for 1080P. is that good?
Yes they will. It’s the same if you were driving under the influence. You were driving illegally, but they cover you. Or you ran a red light whick is illegal, guess what they still cover you. Speeding and get into an accident guess what? Covered.
Great advice and information. As the driver and operator of a vehicle, you assume all responsiblity for the safety of yourself and passengers, as well as others around you. As a Law Enforcement Officer, I have seen so many crashes that could have been avoided by just using the proper equipment that the manufacturer had set in place. Travel trailers pulling the tow vehicles into the ditch and pulling the vehicle into oncoming traffic, buy little more than a gust of wind. Improperly loaded trailers and payloads also cause catastrophic failure, even if they are within the rating of the vehicle. Modification to a vehicle may make the load more predictable and ride better under load but will not change the capacity of the vehicle. The frame, and transmission are still the same after the mods.
7:07 minutes in. "son, when you drive thru a yellah in my parish, yall better have all four of them wheels lock up" An actual judge stated when told the light was yellow and not red...hahahahahah
I love how your touting an add a leaf, lift blocks, and a set of shocks as major suspension enhancements. The blocks especially are a terrible idea for anything other than a grocery getting pavement queen. If you tow with them you add a lot of stress into your leaf springs and driveline causing premature driveline failure and spring wrap.
So true
Common sense, overtaxing a truck is unsafe and dangerous. Get to know your truck before towing
Yes thanks I have been saying this for years and get laughed at
Great comments, I could not agree more. In my RAM 3500 dually with a 3700 lb truck camper, I just returned from Minnesota ice fishing this January and hit crosswinds gusting up to 30-40mph range on I-80. I had to lower my speed to 50mph and I was still being pushed all over the road. Even semis reduced their speed likewise. I believe in a lesser truck (2500 or 1500) with the same payload these crosswinds would have been even more dangerous and I would have had to suspend travel for a couple of days. BTW, the camper dealer told me that this camper was so light, that all I needed was a 3/4 pickup. I am so glad that I got the biggest, heaviest, and most capable pickup for my truck camper.
People think their truck is all big and bad "My truck can tow blah blah blah".... they don't realize that some trailers weigh TWICE as much as some trucks. 5th wheels can up to weigh 17,000lbs dry. Don't underestimate your tow capabilities because you got faith in your truck, do some research. Like watch this guys videos for example.
i do not have a vehicle yet but want to know what you think would be a good vehicle to have to pull a 7 x 12' trailer built out to a living in trailer?
People do not car. People are selfish and not at all considerate of other's. They act as if they own the road. I see it all the time. I tend to think 70% of people ont he road have no business having driver licenses.
buckaroobonsi555 good thing ur not president
@@TonyMontana-fs3lu ...the other 30% can't spell
The condition of this nation's waterways attests to that
Trash don't care about others or anything else.
You are 100% correct. They way they drive where I live even further proves your statement. Not only that they are impatient and don't pay any attention to what they're doing most of the time worse now with cell phones and the damn touch screen tablets built into most of today's vehicles to further distract them...and Tesla in the UK just got a kick in the pants for their touch screen activated windshield wipers on vehicles sold in the UK...I really hope the US catches up with that and requires auto companies to get rid of that touch screen garbage, or at least make it so none of the vehicle operation systems are ran through the touch screen, and that the touch screen isn't usable when vehicle is in gear.
I have 93 Nissan hardbody 4x4, it can barely tow me.
Montana White Lmao.
If that's the case, then I'm sorry to say that you only have 2 real options. Upgrade or a diet.
Sounds like a personal problem lol
to funny.
In the end, the time, effort and cost spent to enhance a f250 or 2500 isn't worth it. Might as well get a 1 ton or 450 if the goal is a large 5th wheel or TT.
With prices the way they are, anyone in the market for a new 250/2500 should be getting a SRW one-ton anyway. $2000 extra gets you almost double the payload.
Biggest problem with a 450 or 550 is everything is a lot more expensive, and there isn't a lot of aftermarket replacement parts available, so things like brake pads are considerable more expensive
The cost difference between my '16 F350 vs a F250 was within a couple hundred bucks. I custom ordered mine and "build and priced" both. Jumping to the F350 option was less than my optioned auxiliary cab heater, and WAY less than the useless sunroof option for $950+.
Other issues to owning a 1-ton vs a 3/4 ton is many states tax and register one ton's or trucks with greater than 10K lb GVWR differently. This is why many of the truck makers offer a payload package just under 10K pounds. I believe Ford is a 9900lb payload package. The truck is mechanically no different, but will legally be registered at 9900 or 10K pounds.
I watch some of your videos if people don't know what truck you should git you problem should not be any where near towing
Also, the frame stays the same. You will bring the mechanical capability of the frame beams and welds further into the safety margin and in a very serious situation, they will fail sooner.
I want to tow a 22ft 5,000lb travel trailer. What truck do you recommend?
Isn’t it just better to just go with a 3500 instead of all the up grades
I'm on the market for a diesel truck and researsching all the capacities for the trucks. I'm amazed and how oblivious some people are to their payload capacities. I just got a 40ft 5th wheel that has a dry pin weight of 2560lbs!! That weight alone meets or exceeds the payloads of most 3/4 tons. I drive around the park I live at and I ask truck owners about their trucks and if they recommend it. Most of them have 2500s or F250s and trailers comparable to mine. They claim their truck can pull their 16000lb trailer, which it can, but when I ask them about payload they have no clue, or assume its good since their truck can pull it. These people are maxing out their trucks payload without realizing it or caring.
Way over Max 2:42 in this video ruclips.net/video/tocXIo2ltgM/видео.html GVWR is 10,000lbs, 2015 F250 CC 4x4 Lariat pin weight is around 3,800lbs. Max cargo with diesel is around 2,000lbs
5 dot officers confirmed that first and foremost they look at tire rating, 2nd they look at axle spacing, 3rd they look at registered weight to the truck/trailer. 4th they look at over all appearance of the payload and make a personal judgment call on weather or not it's safe or not. All I'm saying is that I pull a 10,000 empty gooseneck and load 15 to 19k on it daily with a ram 3500 drw without any attention despite my 24k "manufacturer max tow rating"
I agree tires and licensed GVW are what DOT look for on pickups from 1 tons down down. I agree with the vid mainly because I have pulled overloaded trailers all my life and most people don't have the experience to do what we do. Good trailer brakes cannot be over emphasized when towing over capacity loads. I don't really trust electric and went to hydraulic. At first vac over hydraulic them electric over hydraulic. I don't know about the legal aspects as I have never had a serious accident. I have know a couple guys that had accidents pulling gooseneck loads of cattle and they didn't get into trouble because they were grossly overloaded.
Get over 1 ton and you are in a different ballgame and you will get thorough DOT inspections.
This past summer I was hauling some solar panel hardware for a guy, not a big load at all, probably a couple thousand pounds worth on my equipment trailer. I got pulled over by a DOT cop. He asked me if I was doing this for hire. if so I needed DOT numbers on the truck. Then he asked what the GVW was on the trailer. I told him 14,000 Lbs. He asked about the GVW on the truck I told him 11,300 Lbs. He said if I was over 26,000 Lbs. total, truck and trailer, I'd need a class A (trailer truck) license even if I was empty. I told him I was just helping this guy on the side. He held up his hands and said "don't tell me that!" He said if you're making ANY money with the truck you need DOT numbers. That means all these lawn mower guys of which I'm one, Bush Hog guys that trailer their tractors etc. Anybody that makes money using their pick up in any way, either loading the truck, pulling a trailer or anything else is supposed to have DOT numbers on the TRUCK, not trailer. This is New York State by the way. He was really good about it. He also said that if I had a trailer rated for 15,000 Lbs. even if it wasn't loaded to capacity, I'd be driving out of class, they go by the GVW on the vehicle sticker, not what it's registered for or the load on the trailer.
We aren't going to get a new truck (Toyota Tundra), but we're going to get a very lightweight travel trailer (under 4K). Thanks for all the great info and the responsible attitude.
All good commentary, except you leave out the physics and math that really matters. What a vehicle is 'rated' to carry is largely driven by marketing. For example, almost ALL mid-size sedans sold in Europe (BMW, Jaguar, etcetera) are rated to tow. Specific example: a 2009 BMW E90 diesel is rated to tow 1775 Kg (3905 lbs) at 175Kg tongue load max (385 lbs) in various European markets, when outfitted with the OEM-designed hitch (they call it a tow bar). On this side of the pond, the exact same car made in the exact same factory to the exact same specs is rated to tow....wait for it....zero lbs. Yes, zero.
Not for liability or because we don't know how to hitch or any of that BS. It's only, ONLY because BMW would far prefer to sell you a $75,000 SUV to tow your measly little garden trailer. It's PURELY driven by profit margins. Don't believe the propaganda!
Find your vehicles' maximum tow ratings in any market in the world, and THAT is its true, ENGINEERING limit, versus the marketing limit.
Having said that, there is one big caveat: the hitch (tow bar) designed in THAT market should be used. I know for BMW, the factory/OEM designed hitch is MASSIVELY better than any American aftermarket hitch. Generally, 90% of the hitches I see on trucks here in America 'looks' beefy, but is pretty dumbly designed and puts stress where it shouldn't.
I laugh every time I see a GARGANTUAN F350 towing an itty-bitty little toy trailer weighing *maybe* 1800 lbs. So ridiculous! The right answer, as always, isn't a 'rule of thumb' people love to believe, it's "it depends."
I'm just saying: do your homework and don't take anyone's word for it. Run the numbers and see what you can carry within factory limits, then buy that factory-designed 'good stuff' and stay in those limits.
Great Message!
Safety Rules!
When a 1 ton costs over 50k, you do what you have to.
Really great advice. I checked everything and decided for now after not towing for 12 years to keep it well under the load limit. I don't care it takes time to get used to pulling and all the variables that go into it as well. I'd rather be as safe as possible than try to impress someone with our trailer.
Thank you. My husband loves his ram 1500. And we’re considering a travel trailer. And now he agrees that a 25 ft max 6500 max gvwc is our max. Small trailer for just the two of us, but if it’s better, safer, that’s the point.
Also, don't listen to the car salesman. Mine swore up and down it was fine to pull my 18000 lb gooseneck horse trailer with my 2500. Yes. The truck can pull it but I'm maxed out on specs. He couldn't understand why I was insisting on buying a one ton.
Must not have been much of a salesman. I would have put you in a brand new 110,000 dollar one ton dually.
@@jakesellers9447 right?! Lmao!
You are correct about the legal weight limits of a vehicle BUT, there are TWO weight limits GVWR is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer[1] including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but EXCLUDING THAT OF ANY TRAILERS. THIS, was the numbers you were showing at around the 2:00 mark. The weight of a vehicle is influenced by passengers, cargo, even fuel level, so a number of terms are used to express the weight of a vehicle in a designated state. Gross combined weight rating (GCWR) refers to the total mass of a vehicle, INCLUDING ALL TRAILERS and is usually NOT on the door tags but in the vehicle manual. You did a good job of explaining that mods do not change the legal GCWR or the GVWR, but you confused the viewer because you did not differentiate the two ratings.
Ref: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_vehicle_weight_rating
Pure logic...Perfect!!!. Great advice...
Great information. Why cruising in the passing lane? Rude and unprofessional.
I had a friend who went to a RV dealership and picked out a very nice one. The dealer asked what he was going to tow it with. He said his Chevy 1500. He refused to sell it to him because of the danger. I mean this RV was huge. They talked for a while and basically told him the same thing you’re saying.
My friend went and bought a Ford F-350 with all the bells and whistles for towing then went back and bought the RV.
He said the dealer was surprised to see him again because most just go to another dealer who only cares about the money.
What about me a 5000lbs tow truck and a small rv trailer 4850lbs tow is it good
When a manufacturer brags about max payload capacities it is usually for the regular cab 2 wheel drive dually. Add more doors and a transfer case or a bumper and winch and that all takes away from payload. Add your mother inlaw and and you might as well just pay someone else to haul it.
But my dealer said.............
I need help... I have a 2003 youkon xl 2 wd 1500....and I’m trying to figure out how much weight I can tow
Don't exceed 10k. Specification say 12k but better safe than sorry. Alot of people don't keep in mind all the stuff they travel with. Propane tanks, clothes, dishes, extra people, electronics, etc... It all adds up.
double w So your saying that a 2003 youkon XL 2wd can tow 10k but does that include 5500lbs of my youkon so tow amount would be 10k minus youkon for total of 4500 ? And what about adding young weight ?
All the extra parts don’t make the frame any stronger. That’s the point. To much weight you will tip or crack the frame.
Not to mention you can get sued to the hills if you get into an accident and your are over weight..plus your insurance probably will not cover the accident if you are legally over weight. Just something to think about.
Just subbed your channel. I have s 12,000lbs tandem ax trailer, tongue hitch. My tow rig is a 1500 Silverado and it feels sketchy with just the trailer. I want to upgrade my truck. Any suggestions?
Good video BTW,very eye opening.🖒
riderite air bags or firestone w. in cab controller and onboard air compressor.
Ed Spencer sell it. buy a used duramax. fix it up. get one without dpf. or ford or dodge whatever you like. go diesel. never look back.
Roberta Christeen you move the axle forward, not backward if you want to take weight off the tongue
Ed Spencer ram 2500 hemi no need to go for the diesel
Depends on how much you tow and where. If I'm towing in high elevation.. I live at 7000 ft so non turbo gas rigs loose 30% or so power. The turbo diesel is hardly affected and pulls way better... at a much higher cost. if you don't pull all the time buy gas. way less up front and way more quiet. I have diesel because where I live and I got a killer deal.
Speaking of following the law: check out Texas Transportation Code, Title 7, Sec. 545.051. You violated the law for the first half of your video. Just sayin' ;-)
People don't consider the wimpy little wheel bearings in the half ton axel, they don't do well over weighted.
All this talk about tickets for being overweight is, as far as I know in ANY state, bullshit. If you're NOT FOR HIRE, weight limits don't apply....... for ticketing purposes.
That said, get in a wreck and you can damn sure bet that the lawyers and insurance adjusters will have a field day if you're running over capacity. But tickets for being over weight.....NOPE.
I'd like to know what diesel truck could pull a 25 foot Airstream Flying Cloud FB? I'd like a comfortable cabin with a lot of safety amenities...thanks
f 450 most likely would
@@harleyhawk7959 might as well go with the 550.
my truck can handle most towing things. however I would like to add that the trailer has limits as well. and I was trained to handle a trailer. I see a lot of people who have no idea how to drive with a trailer. you made a lot of excellent points thank you
Another thing you forgot to say is when people put on aftermarket bumpers, bull bars, cattle catchers and over kill winches that weight 100's of pounds over the stock bumpers plus all of these lights that people want to compete with the sun and other things weigh 100's need to subtract from the sticker on payload capacity.
Gary C: agreed. shoot a cup of coffee technically takes away from payload capacity.
Might want to add the weight of yourself to that brother. You may never want to step foot in a truck again.... Also you mention lights. Without lights I am not legally allowed to operate my business the way I do. I need emergency lightbars and warning lights on all angles of my trucks as we make frequent stops. What should I do just not run my business because of a 30lb light bar? And Id say thats pushing the weight.
Manufacturers include a 150lb weight allowance for the driver when determining advertised payload, anything above that does need to be counted against payload. Gary is not saying that you shouldn't run your business, rather that you should remember to count your extra lighting against payload.
When in doubt, you can always hand-calculate. For example, my truck has a 6500lb GVWR, with 3250 for each axle. Its curb weight (full fluids and a 150lb driver) is 4400lbs. Knowing this, I can tell you that my legal payload is up to 2100lbs, assuming it is properly distributed to avoid overloading the axles. If I were to add a headache rack with a lightbar, and a nice beefy ladder rack that added up to 400lbs of steel, my legal payload is now 1700lbs, because I've added 400lbs to the weight of the truck without any changes to the ratings.
That might actually increase your weight rating.
Its called getting as bigger truck, too many idiots overworking a small truck instead of going up a class, or two.
I tow a 5700lb rv behind a 2018 Durango with 5.7L Hemi, Fastway WDH, Air Lift Bags and factory tow package.
i know this first hand i had to pull a skid steer a few miles down the road (94 f150 with about 20,000lb hooked to bumper) you can move a lot more than you sould, it only cost me a set rear bearings, all the brakes, i coulden stop, steering was tricky (locker in the back). your little 1/2 ton is more capabule than you think, but think before you do it, i am luckly i diden wreck it. dont be a dumbass use the right tool for the job.
As a Tow Truck operator (retired) I 100% agree with what the information in this video! I Really enjoy watching all of your videos (the ones I have seen), you are VERY informative.
Makes a long winded video about safety while blowing through yellow lights lol
And when purchasing a truck you need to know what you are hauling. You may even need to educate the dealerships. Great video.
Sandra Westley from the UK yes the dealership just want the sale, some have a conscious and would sell something dangerous, but that does depend on his bonus, I expect
wheres the up side down motor home that i saw
+hartsf33: you saw a motorhome?
Big Truck Big RV hes a click baiter trying to get views.
Recently, for my business I purchased a 2014 Chevy Silverado 3500HD 4 wheel (Not dually) 2 wheel drivequad cab (4 door) long bed (8ft) 6.6L 'Duramax'/Isuzu diesel. As far as I know, but not sure due to ignorance it is a stock vehicle stating 17,800 pounds tow cap. What is the LONGEST I'd want to tow with this vehicle? Also have heard the california law doesn't actually show the 'real' capacity of it's capabilities though don't plan on getting a16K pound trailer. I've got the 'decked' and 'ARE' set up for work so 5th wheel is not something I'll be looking to purchase due to the bed tooling I've got. What do you recommend I pull as a maximum weight/ length on this vehicle? Thank you in advance.
This is one of the best videos I've seen regarding safety, and legalities! Thank you for making people aware!
You make conflicting statements.
You talk about upgrades that make it so you can safely tow more. But make the point that its still illegal (I've been asking for applicable law for non-cmv going over the sticker).
Then you talk about not being safe.
Its one or the other.
You may upgrade tires, suspension, engine and transmission to allow towing greater weights. But you are still limited by chassis design and the axles themselves. This too is taken into consideration when rating towing capacity.
Thats why i haul my 1500lb landscaping trailer with a dual axle peterbilt. Kinda slumps the rear but she makes due 🫰🏼
Nice discussion. I remember when I was 26 years old and was helping a friend. That was 33 years ago. He had bought a load of cement block to build a small room for his water tank and pump. We loaded the block even with my cab on my 1964 Ford F250 and when I went across a rail road track the front wheels were not touching the pavement. It's a good thing we only had to go maybe 3 miles to his house and he lived out in the country. This discussion is a good reminder it is better to be safe than sorry.
you learn something everyday
well said man! A bit part of it from what I see is stability. theres a reason semi trucks way over 20,000lb and have 8 drive tires. It's all about controlling the weight you're moving. It just like how you don't try to push an 8000lb truck around by hand without someone ready to hit the brakes in the driver seat
just buy a Peterbilt
Would equal to about a ford ranger🤣🤣🤣🤣
Question I have v8 Colorado tow gwr is 5500 I have 10 thousand weighted tag I don’t pull over 5 thousand is th tag useful
Oh my god dude you said the same thing a thousand times
Risk! Lmao
How many people still didnt get it
You can also pay the DMV more money and they will give you a magic wand and upgrade the GVW of your vehicle. From the factory my 2012 Ram 2500 is limited to 9500 lbs GVW, yet the DMV has a GVW of 12,564 lbs on the registration.
Awesome video, great information. Thank you sir.
I pull my RV around using my 2006 Honda TRX450 four wheeler, works great! The engine struggles a bit and the brakes dont work, but brakes are for pussies anyways. Once you get going though it rides pretty good! For the chains and lights I just leave them dangling since my 4 wheeler doesnt have a receptacle for the chains or an electronic brake / signalling light system
I completely agree with advising people not to tow more than their vehicle is capable of. However I'm having a hard time understanding this. The GVWR is the amount of weight you can put on the vehicle itself. Being the vehicles weight, fuel, passengers, cargo and trailer tongue weight. But it's not actually calculating in your tow capacity?
Rich Miller Exactly what I'm struggling with. It's hard to understand (for me at least) the towing capacity and everything with how complicated they make the ratings.
You also need to understand what the GCWR is. That is the total weight you are allowed to have with truck, trailer, persons, toys, dogs, soda pops, water, fuel. Every ounce that is on the truck, trailer, hitch all needs to be under what the manufacturer states on the tag.
Rich Miller
The GVWR, Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, is the total safe weight limit of the towing vehicle with fuel, occupants, implements, attachments and cargo as set by the vehicle manufacture. This rating is absolute and remains the same regardless of enhancements, improvements or upgrades. The unladen empty weight of the vehicle, sometimes referred to as curb weight, subtracted from the GVWR is the vehicle total payload. This amount is diminished by each and every thing added to the vehicle that was not installed by the manufacturer, for example, winches, winch bumpers, roll bars, steps or snow plows and the like. Vehicles also have a GAWR which is the Gross Axle Weight Rating which must be considered when loading the vehicle. All weight applied above and to the rear of the rear axle is considered applied to the rear axle and therefore must be applied to the rear axle weight rating and the same for the front axle. The towing capacity is how much weight the vehicle can safely control on a trailer including the weight of the trailer. Note that a properly loaded trailer has 60% of the weight evenly distributed between the tongue and the axle and the remainder from the axle back which adds weight to the towing vehicle and therefore has to be accounted for in the GVWR to remain legal. Therefore if you have a 7000 pound GVWR and an empty weight of 4800 pounds you can place 2200 pounds, aka payload, in the tow vehicle. If you are towing a trailer that has a loaded weight of 5000 pounds and 60% is between the tongue and axle you have to account for the additional weight placed on the tow vehicle and subtract that amount from the payload.
Ok so move stuff around so that the weight on the vehicle is right. You want some pressure to keep traction for breaking but not too much as to bounce off the frame.
I haul for a living & I rarely will pull a heavier trailer so I can make my truck last longer. I have a 2011 dodge ram 3500 dually. I know what my weight is on it. 12500 lbs. & my truck weighs 9600 lbs with me in it & fueled up. I am plated at 26,000lbs. The 12500 lbs would mean my steers & tandems wheels weighed together. Meaning I could put as much on the ball of hitch 2900 lbs that is it.
@Big Truck Big Rv damn i haven't watched one of your video's for awhile. good to be back watching your video's again.
As a professional driver I have to agree with this guy. Not because I believe we should pay attention to anything our government says, but because likely 95% of people don’t really know how to drive a car, much less have the ability to properly operate a vehicle not conducive to safely towing a lot of weight. I live right off I-17 through Black Canyon City AZ. About 80 miles or less from flagstaff. No joke there’s a wreck every single day on that route and almost every night. It’s because of people not understanding the laws of physics and mechanics. A bunch of those wrecks are caused by small pickups hauling camper trailers.
I'm just trying to figure out what I can tow with my Dodge Dakota.
3 axle 5th wheel, but nothing more!
Two twinkies and a snowcone
I live in a free state. You can tag a truck for what ever weight you want. You can tag a stock Ram 1500 for 80,000 lbs.iff'n you want to and be legal.
I worked for the largest truck rental, sales, lease, logistics company in the US for almost 21 years. Knew all about weight ratings. Ordered a 2015 Silverado 2500 HD Duramax 4X4 based on CHEVY'S towing specs. What a bunch of bull.... ALL of the truck mfgs. were and are guilty of trying to be top dog in the towing categories. My truck is stock except for a factory sprayed in bedliner and the AMP Inc. power steps. I knew I was never going to get a HUGE 5th wheel because for just my wife and myself, just didn't need or want a massive one. I took my truck to a CAT scale to weigh it, with myself and my wife on board as it would be when traveling, and full of diesel. I was stunned. It weighed 8,140 lbs. It has a 10,000 lb GVWR. Sooooooo...........that leaves only 1,860 lbs that can be added legally. Add a 5th wheel hitch and maybe some firewood or something and you are down to the 1, 700 range. Getting any decent 5th wheel with that low of a pin weight is almost impossible. I have a travel trailer now, and will probably just stay with one. Frees up the bed and the tongue towing is nowhere near weight problem. It is very confusing for the average person, but they should educate themselves. I try to tell people that you can put a 200 lb person in a little red wagon and PULL them easily, but you can't put that same 200 lb person on your back or shoulders and CARRY them. Same with trailer towing. Thankfully the manufacturers are now going to the SAE J2807 standard towing specs which should maybe at least bring some fairness and accuracy to the game, but the mfgs. will always try to fudge.
Bill C. I agree with you Bill, it's hard for most people to understand the weight capacity of their trucks, I was at an RV show this weekend and this guy was trying to explain to me that a 2500 could pull a 15,000 pound trailer a complete misunderstanding and he is selling them.
Marshall Hall
I can tow any vehicle of any weight with my massive cock.
In my opinion don't confuse Cargo Carrying Capacity with Pin weight. I have a 2015 Duramax High Country and it weighs about 8,100 lbs full of fuel with me and the wife in it. You have to look at Gross Combined Weight Rating which is 24,500 minus what your truck weighs and that leaves about 16,400 not counting a fifth wheel hitch. General motors specs a fifth wheel capacity of 17,100 and I don't agree. The difference is your trailer or your fifth wheel has brakes. When you talk about Cargo Carrying Capacity that is your truck bed full of stuff or a truck camper and you have to stop it. The weak link is your tire rating, take a look and do the math. A slightly higher rated tire will give you another 1,000 lbs. Also in my opinion that sticker on the door is how your truck was rated as delivered to you, I agree it can't be changed but you have to live with your decision. I personally am looking at a fifth wheel which has a gross weight of 15.,000 lbs with a dry pin weight of 2,500 lbs along with a new set of tires which I will need soon. I spent a month on the road in January with my 8,000 lb travel trailer and I looked at all the fifth wheel tow vehicles which were for the most part 3/4 ton trucks. A couple of days ago I looked up the rear axle capacity (not the sticker) and standing on its own the 14 bolt AAM 11.5 inch is rated at 10,000 lbs Good luck.
Gary,
I believe Bill is talking about when adding tongue weight or fifth wheel weight of a trailer to a truck that is 1700 lbs away from being over weight. I tie a 16' trailer with 2 5200 lbs rated axels to be safe on what I will load it up with. I am buying a f450 to be safe because the trailer will be connect M-F without being disconnected. I have plans to get a 14K lbs Kubota skidsteer with attachments. To tow on a 4500 lbs trailer. To be safe I over killed it so I don't have to worry. Plan safe+Drive Safe
I couldn’t get past 3 min of this video brother. Its not about ego it’s about economy. A F150 is much cheaper than a F350 Dually. Get off your high horse. Everyone’s risk/reward mitigation is different. If you want to talk about why it’s not a good idea to exceed the capacities because of fact then do so but don’t assume it’s because of egos.