Still will be a felon to possess the pistol even with only a buffer tube, the way they stated everything will basically incriminate anyone with an ar type pistol, whether shouldered or not, whether brace is taken off or not
First they came for full auto, Then they came for SBRs and SBS's, Then they came for silencers, Then they came for imports, Then they came for "assault" features, Then they came for magazines, Then they came for bumpstocks, Then they came for braces. When they came for the cheek pistols and revolvers, there is no precedence to protect me.
Just look at Canada, UK and Australia to see where we are headed next.... Until the BRUEN decision came along. Things are getting overturned left and right; it's happening, but it just takes so much d^mn time.
Lawsuits already filed. The ban was brought out in defiance of SCOTUS. Thanks to you mine don't have braces. Never had braces. High mount red dot sights only. It works even for my wife.
I find shooting with a cheek weld that high mounting the red dot puts it slightly out of my line of sight. If I am raising the pistol to the cheek why would I also want to high mount the red dot? What am I missing here? What is the advantages to high mounting the red dot?
@@MikeRatcliffe2014 Watch his videos. Cheeks are different. He likes his very high. We keep ours at AR height. This works very well with our Ruger 10-22's as well as the AR pistols.
I remember you talking about this possibility a long time ago, and here it is. Whether or not the brace rule actually ends up going into effect this time, I will continue to train brace-less to prepare for the worst case scenario. Thank you, as always, Rhett for your knowledge and insight.
You're a genius, good sir! My wife & I have been utilizing your cheek weld doctrine for our AR pistols and Shockwaves for nearly a year now. Keep on preaching!
Hate to break it to you but if you learn your history snubnose revolvers are already in their radar and have been for decades. Look up "Saturday night specials".
you are going to get real popular soon. i said it, i said it a few video back. i said that i had a feeling about your style of shooting. i compared it to magpul dynamics making everyone do "C" clamp grips on their ar's. your style of shooting will be the next thing. i hope you do become real popular. well deserved.
spot on, when magpul dropped the first version of "art of the tactical carbine" lots of people were like "lol what is this high speed bullshit" but then it quickly became apparent that the techniques were superior. Hell, it took 400 years before anyone realized that handguns are best fired with BOTH HANDS
@@dpetrides exactly. I have seen a bunch of people on RUclips criticizing the whole cheek pistol concept. But when i first saw it i immediately thought, " wow. This will pissoff the atf. This guy just made stockless ar's viable ".
Real soon?? I've been practicing his shotgun technique for about a year. I'm thinking the AR might be easier. Not so many accidental punches in the mouth...
Thanks. I am not any more stressed than you seem to be. I am wearing(and practicing with) a revolver right now and am in Wyoming anyway. I planned for this brace ban as well and cheek shooting was no small part of that planning. Don't get angry - adapt and continue supporting the orgs on our side of the lawfare.
I just am so thankful that I found your channel when I did… I reconfigured and dumped that brace as soon as I thought they were going to start with the stupid legislation… Got my sling appropriately, mounted and dry, firing and drilling with a cheek pistol concept. Everything you say about it is accurate, and I feel like I actually am more purposeful in my training than I was before. Hope you have a blessed 2023 and maybe if the stars align I get the opportunity to train with you. Shalom.
Some Non Standard Defense weapons - Browning BAR Mark II(4rd?) - Browning BAR Mark III ( Hinged magazine) - Browning BLR Takedown Lightweight Stainless steel 81 - Browning SA-22 - Browning BAR Mark III DBM 308(10rd) - Any revolver - Double Barrel shotgun - Remington 7600/7400 - Marlin Model 70P Takedown/ 795 - Marlin 1895 SBL/336 - Any single stack pistol including those old S&W 3913 pistols or S&W Gen 3 pistols - Lever Action rifle - Bolt Action rifle - Savage 99 - Savage 64G - Stevens 87A - Winchester 88/100 -Winchester XPR /SXR Vulcan - Benell R1 Pro Big Game(4/10rd) - M1 Garand w/8rd clip. They exist. - SKS? - DBM scout rifle? (10rd) - Combination Rifles ( like the M6 or Baikal models) - Socom 16 (10rd) Wood or hunting camo is preferred. Same for fixed stocks.
It seems that AR pistols with a naked buffer tube may still be a no go with the new ruling. I was contemplating a cheek pistol before, but sounds like it may be a no go. Bad ruling is written poorly and confusing of course
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 definitely want try a cheek gun. Was considering a Ruger Charger with an 8” barrel but I think the weight, charging handle and overall size don’t pay off. Concerned more about the blast coming off a 7.5 556 than anything. A S&W M&P 5.7 with some sort of printed chassis that mounts to the accessory rail that provides a full length rail over the top of the gun could be a cool option…
In Texas they past a law a year or two back to not allow any other federal gun restriction that was not on the books as of the law passing. So, I think I am covered. Let alone what happened with the bumpstock crap getting over turned.
What are we supposed to do with rendering the buffer tube unable to accept a stock? Not only do these non legislative body demands I alter my defensive tool for a clearly cosmetic feature (just as effective with or without given training), and spend money on a shorter tube?
What do you think about the strike industries p320 stock for a cheek pistol. Without the folder attached and only the grip it looks like a perfect resting spot for the cheek.
In regards to cheek pistols, they may be able to press charges on the basis of the optics ruling. "If the shooter places an optic on their firearm that requires an eye relief that is consistent with what’s used on a rifle, such as a scope, then that gun will also be considered a short barreled rifle." Using decent optics on a cheek pistol (with which they're clearly used in the same manner that rifle optics are) may be illegal.
All optics I use have infinite or near infinite eye relief. All options have better eye box, eye relief and less magnification than the current and old offerings of hunting pistol optics.
You're correct. I'm really hoping the courts strike this down. I'm a vet with neck injuries that result in neuropathy in both hands: literally the guy these things were supposed to aid. Really not looking forward to the next few months
I understand your point about following the law: but not complying and then getting arrested is the necessary first step in pushing a case through the courts. You can't even fight them without first getting caught in defiance, because a judge will just throw out the case and say you don't have standing, otherwise.. Yes, GOA and FPC are trying to fight it now based on a procedural case, because the ATF shouldn't be able to just make new laws like this. But in the meantime, noncompliance to unconstitutional laws was literally demanded of the citizens of this country, by the founding fathers. I can understand if you don't want to be the one Ginnie pig, I have a family too and a lot to lose; but someone has to be the lamb in order to fight them. That's how our system works; otherwise, we just continue to capitulate and they'll keep marching us to tyranny one step after the other, while we never do anything about it. It's not a great strategy for keeping this country free, in the long run. Mass noncompliance is the best tool we have.
Man, here's the crazy bit, California when they had to come back and ban varied "bullet button" and other guns that avoided the legal definitions, at least they actually passed a law. The ATF is trying to create a new class here, and in doing so is likely invalidating NFA. Funny thing is, the only gun left with a brace on it, has a 16" barrel.
Back when I first got into guns the snub nose revolver was targeted to banned because they were considered "Saturday Night Specials" , whatever that means!
Thank you for providing some sane, sensible commentary on a dumb ruling. Seen a lot of dumb comments & dumb tweets in the past 24 hours. I don't like the ruling, but anyone who didn't see this coming is clueless. A fucking pistol brace isn't worth becoming a felon over.
Really not worried. SCOTUS has already provided the tools to shoot this down along with most every other law which infringes on the 2nd. It will take time but in the end this could end up being very good for us.
Buren Master Race... I'm sure it will take 5 years or more before the really big cases get overturned. but in the meantime, I guess my braces will have to take a dirt nap somewhere in mexico.
No. The ‘buffer tube end caps’ are all garbage. They don’t meaningfully increase the surface area that you’d presumably use to shoulder the gun. They add complexity and snag risk and open you up to all the asinine legal problems of stocks/braces on pistols.
@Demonstrated Concepts LLC. 1st, Always wondered when you would use the GBRS Group Hydra mount for tactical operators. 2nd, Always wanted to see you shoot a Kriss Vector.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 oh, wow! Thanks. I'm not active anymore but I was wondering how hard it would be with nods. The purpose of the hydra mount is to see better with full gear (vest, helmet...). Nods limit field of view and eye relief. Is cheek shooting possible with operator gear?
SNUBBIE 22 lrs and 12 Gauges for life! Even blue joe isnt going for 22lr or shotguns hes actually spoken on behalf of both ("buy a shotgun" and "a 22 lr can be removed from the body. . A 9mm", well you know the rest 🤣🤦♂️) but I agree good to own, know how to shoot and be prepared to be legally limited to stuff like this if we don't elect more pro 2a reps
I followed your advice starting about 6 months ago by going 'braceless' with my AR9. I replaced the brace with some foam on a smooth pistol tube and it's not that much different. 👍
The sling method works. It’s better when added cheek contact can be made to force eye alignment with optic. It’s not one vs the other. It’s both. But sling tension is not environment appropriate in all cases
Are they still charging $200 for this picture SBR thing? I really like the A2 "solid" MP5 stock, so I'll be SBRing mine I guess. I wonder if I can just send a picture of that and SBR it that way. :)
It's a good question that the ATF will have to answer, and even then you can't trust that it will stay that way. Right now they are offering the SBR option for free for 120 days. But like he said in the video, they are requiring you to send in a picture. So I bet you won't be able to put a stock on these like a regular SBR.. and you may not even be able to swap uppers either. When the ATF can just make up any rules that they want, they can simply say: "Your conversion was free because this is a special "braced SBR" - which means you are committed to that rifle as it is shown in the picture you submitted- and you can't change anything on it (other than optics, etc). But you can't swap upper and you can't put a stock on it, unless you pay the regular $200 SBR tax stamp" --- Now this is just speculation, and it may not be true at all. But again, they could still come out months or even years later and say this crap. So they must be stopped, when it comes to letting them change rulings as they please. You can see how this is a complete nightmare in a hurry; and this is exactly why Congress is the only institution that gets to make the laws, because it takes so much more agreement and cooperation to get anything passed. Whereas this Rogue ATF is just making things up on the fly, that are making us all felons overnight. This is NOT the way it's supposed to be run. And I wish the speaker of the house would come out and make a statement about putting them in their place; and not just leave this up to the courts.
Along with 40+ million people. Keep in mind; the ATF has never approved even 1 million SBR applications in one year. In other words.... You're sending incriminating evidence directly to those that would incriminate you, with all the evidence they'd need to charge you. And there's practically zero chance that you'd get approved in the grace period. You'd be felonizing yourself. Don't do it.
Unfortunately, they left the ruling vague to any attachments on the end of the AR lower. Including the buffer tube. So I'm not even sure a smooth round buffer tube with a cheek weld will pass this rule. It's all subjective and could still be deemed an SBR.
‘Attachment’ = not necessary for the function of the action. Nothing new there. The standard AR needs the tube to cycle. All the other designs where it is t necessary for function- trouble
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 ruclips.net/video/DggOmUXxVWY/видео.html a lawyer from GOA say's a round buffer tube is still subjective, which is how I read it also.
I haven't read the rules yet, but does the ruling specifically refer to the manual of arms? Does putting a buffer tube to your shoulder turn a pistol into an SBR? What about putting your cheek to it?
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 agree, I just haven't read the ruling and don't know if it's line stops at physical objects or heads into actual user technique, which seems to be precisely the issue at hand with braces.
Seems like the right place to ask... Would a flat out pistol (MPA 30dmg) with a buffer tube attachment (alone, nothing on it but maybe paracord) fall under the obscure ruling of "able to be shouldered- by total length/weight- ect"... Yes, there are better options of a cheek pistol but it's what I personally want to do. I just don't want to get caught on some minute bs detail or factor making me a "criminal".
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 I genuinely appreciate you reaching out, as far as I know there's allot of effort/pushback against this weird rule because there's allot of "fucked if you do fucked if you don't" that me and others more educated than I have found. A big example that's been in circulation is if you're automatically denied your stamp by it waiting to be decided on for too long, the weird length of pull argument, and of course what truly counts as able to be shouldered. Don't wanna reply with an entire book but there's really allot to discuss on this latest ruling.
Does anyone find it odd that the ATF repeatedly said that Braces were OK; and now, mysteriously, that a Anti-Gun President is in office, they have changed their mind?
He runs a Kel-tec CP33 which is ambidextrous. Don't know if 22lr is what you are looking for, but that platform seems easy enough to run from either hand.
So you don't think they are going to cause a stink about the optics with limited eye relief obviously only being able to be used if shouldered? We all know that's a bs part of the rule, people have put scopes on revolvers for years, those aren't SBRs, and obviously a cheek weld allows the use of any optic with out shouldering.
Maybe "least likely to be banned in the future" is not a good future plan after all... GUNS will be banned. The line has been stepped on for quite some time now and it keeps progressing. Your solution involves complying with authority that has no regard for actual laws (there fore they are implementing an UNLAWFUL order by definition) and authority who have and are willing to kill people for disagreeing with them. Also, their dogs.
Regarding Colorado’s proposed “assault weapons ban” I’m already doing what I know to do on the political front, but I welcome any suggestions. It is terrible to see Colorado fall under the control of statists.
Sad as the bad laws are, I agree 100% best to follow the law! Stay legal. If you ever have to use it don't want to end up locked up even in justified use, bscause it wasn't legal for some reason.
With 5.56mm training without a brace is not a big deal. I've tried cheeking it many times and I shoot it pretty well that way. It's just annoying how stupid it looks (like a big dildo sticking out of the gun). I'm probably going to have a piece of cloth or flexible leather hanging down over mine so it doesn't look stupid, but where that piece can't be used as a stock. For .300 uppers however, it is not so easy due to the stouter recoil. It's doable but it's not going to be much fun shooting that way. I'll probably end up re-barreling mine to a 20" 5.56mm barrel and gas system after I shoot up all my .300 blackout ammo. But I'm going to wait for the lawyers to have a good look at these new rules and let them summarize the key points before I make any decisions. But, if they only allow you to SBR the lower matched with only one upper, then to hell with that, I'm just destroying the cheap brace on mine. I've been training more with my full size 16" AR anyways. What I'm curious about is whether in that almost 300 page document, they ban "Any Other Weapon" shotguns like the Mossberg Shockwave. Hopefully they don't make us get tax stamps for those as well. It's B.S. that these laws penalize law abiding citizens who just need a compact but stable home defense firearm, while criminals will continue using sawed off shotguns and rifles all day long.
To all my fellow mossberg shockwave owners out there. Just go a head and put a stock on it if you have a brace. ( If legal in your state via form 1 etc) You are welcome.
Unless they filled out a form 1 no one should ever have a pistol brace on their Shockwave in the first place. It is not a pistol. It may be legal depending on interpretation, but good luck to anyone trying to play the "legal gray area" card with the cops.
I think you're right. They are "allowing" these braced pistols to be converted to SBR's for free-- so I bet that means you cannot put a stock on it; without paying for the tax stamp. smh.. What a joke.
Washington Gun Law did a q+a on this. Once it’s an SBR, you can do whatever you want. You just can’t change the barrel length. Stock or brace really doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t send a photo of the full weapon though. You would be incriminating yourself if you did.
I never found braces useful but I still think this latest “edict from on high” sucks. After watching you cheek weld your .22 pistol effectively I decided to try it with my AR pistols. The results were much better than I expected. I sh*tcanned all the braces and started training exclusively using a plain, foam covered buffer tube, the cheek weld AND a sling. Until I saw your vid it had never occurred to me to ever try this way of controlling the weapon. With the cheek and the sling I now have four quite solid points of contact.
Or just don't comply, that's free, and you get the full capability of a standard cap SBR, while also actively contributing to a culture that will preserve freedom instead of helping the ATF justify their actions. Just my take, worth as much as it costs.
The "rule" is BS, but a cheek pistol is extremely effective. You don't need a brace. Demonstrated Concepts techniques work.
Still will be a felon to possess the pistol even with only a buffer tube, the way they stated everything will basically incriminate anyone with an ar type pistol, whether shouldered or not, whether brace is taken off or not
It is not true that an sr pistol with a buffer tube will be illegal. The ATF has specifically said they are legal.
You can also use the sling method too
First they came for full auto,
Then they came for SBRs and SBS's,
Then they came for silencers,
Then they came for imports,
Then they came for "assault" features,
Then they came for magazines,
Then they came for bumpstocks,
Then they came for braces.
When they came for the cheek pistols and revolvers, there is no precedence to protect me.
Best way forward is to provide a fun and politics free range day for everyone you can. Nothing shapes beliefs and culture more positively experiences.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 the best way forward is to inhale a large bowl of beans-n-cheese
Just look at Canada, UK and Australia to see where we are headed next.... Until the BRUEN decision came along. Things are getting overturned left and right; it's happening, but it just takes so much d^mn time.
Lawsuits already filed. The ban was brought out in defiance of SCOTUS. Thanks to you mine don't have braces. Never had braces. High mount red dot sights only. It works even for my wife.
I find shooting with a cheek weld that high mounting the red dot puts it slightly out of my line of sight. If I am raising the pistol to the cheek why would I also want to high mount the red dot? What am I missing here? What is the advantages to high mounting the red dot?
@@MikeRatcliffe2014 Watch his videos. Cheeks are different. He likes his very high. We keep ours at AR height. This works very well with our Ruger 10-22's as well as the AR pistols.
I remember you talking about this possibility a long time ago, and here it is. Whether or not the brace rule actually ends up going into effect this time, I will continue to train brace-less to prepare for the worst case scenario. Thank you, as always, Rhett for your knowledge and insight.
You're a genius, good sir! My wife & I have been utilizing your cheek weld doctrine for our AR pistols and Shockwaves for nearly a year now. Keep on preaching!
Hate to break it to you but if you learn your history snubnose revolvers are already in their radar and have been for decades. Look up "Saturday night specials".
you are going to get real popular soon. i said it, i said it a few video back. i said that i had a feeling about your style of shooting. i compared it to magpul dynamics making everyone do "C" clamp grips on their ar's. your style of shooting will be the next thing. i hope you do become real popular. well deserved.
Kind words. Thank you!
spot on, when magpul dropped the first version of "art of the tactical carbine" lots of people were like "lol what is this high speed bullshit" but then it quickly became apparent that the techniques were superior. Hell, it took 400 years before anyone realized that handguns are best fired with BOTH HANDS
@@dpetrides exactly. I have seen a bunch of people on RUclips criticizing the whole cheek pistol concept. But when i first saw it i immediately thought, " wow. This will pissoff the atf. This guy just made stockless ar's viable ".
I agree. His stuff is probably the most innovative firearm concepts I've seen for a while. Imagine if he had a budget.
Real soon?? I've been practicing his shotgun technique for about a year. I'm thinking the AR might be easier. Not so many accidental punches in the mouth...
i'm not american but i love your videos. there's a lot to take away for citizens of other countries, too.
12g on the list now... would love too see an update on this. Been putting off joining Patreon, but probably time. Thank you for your information. 👍🏾
Thanks. I am not any more stressed than you seem to be. I am wearing(and practicing with) a revolver right now and am in Wyoming anyway. I planned for this brace ban as well and cheek shooting was no small part of that planning. Don't get angry - adapt and continue supporting the orgs on our side of the lawfare.
😂 Lawfare really got me. Spot on.
I just am so thankful that I found your channel when I did… I reconfigured and dumped that brace as soon as I thought they were going to start with the stupid legislation… Got my sling appropriately, mounted and dry, firing and drilling with a cheek pistol concept. Everything you say about it is accurate, and I feel like I actually am more purposeful in my training than I was before. Hope you have a blessed 2023 and maybe if the stars align I get the opportunity to train with you. Shalom.
You're argument just got a whole lot stronger!!!
Some Non Standard Defense weapons
- Browning BAR Mark II(4rd?)
- Browning BAR Mark III ( Hinged magazine)
- Browning BLR Takedown Lightweight Stainless steel 81
- Browning SA-22
- Browning BAR Mark III DBM 308(10rd)
- Any revolver
- Double Barrel shotgun
- Remington 7600/7400
- Marlin Model 70P Takedown/ 795
- Marlin 1895 SBL/336
- Any single stack pistol including those old S&W 3913 pistols or S&W Gen 3 pistols
- Lever Action rifle
- Bolt Action rifle
- Savage 99
- Savage 64G
- Stevens 87A
- Winchester 88/100
-Winchester XPR /SXR Vulcan
- Benell R1 Pro Big Game(4/10rd)
- M1 Garand w/8rd clip. They exist.
- SKS?
- DBM scout rifle? (10rd)
- Combination Rifles ( like the M6 or Baikal models)
- Socom 16 (10rd)
Wood or hunting camo is preferred.
Same for fixed stocks.
Great advice. Keep up the great work.
...I wonder how many boating accidents happened today?
Been rockin a snub and break action shotgun since 2012 🤷♂️
It seems that AR pistols with a naked buffer tube may still be a no go with the new ruling. I was contemplating a cheek pistol before, but sounds like it may be a no go. Bad ruling is written poorly and confusing of course
‘an accessory if not necessary to the function of the firearm’ has always been the verbiage
Also platforms like the CMMG dissent are easily cheekable.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 definitely want try a cheek gun. Was considering a Ruger Charger with an 8” barrel but I think the weight, charging handle and overall size don’t pay off.
Concerned more about the blast coming off a 7.5 556 than anything.
A S&W M&P 5.7 with some sort of printed chassis that mounts to the accessory rail that provides a full length rail over the top of the gun could be a cool option…
In Texas they past a law a year or two back to not allow any other federal gun restriction that was not on the books as of the law passing. So, I think I am covered. Let alone what happened with the bumpstock crap getting over turned.
Your technique aged well. Glad i listened
My dog ate my pistol brace.
Now they’ll shoot it to see.
Hey guys. I got it. Just be an expert archer and get your rock throwing skills up. The government won't ban those tools, right? 🤦🏿
What are we supposed to do with rendering the buffer tube unable to accept a stock?
Not only do these non legislative body demands I alter my defensive tool for a clearly cosmetic feature (just as effective with or without given training), and spend money on a shorter tube?
What do you think about the strike industries p320 stock for a cheek pistol. Without the folder attached and only the grip it looks like a perfect resting spot for the cheek.
In regards to cheek pistols, they may be able to press charges on the basis of the optics ruling.
"If the shooter places an optic on their firearm that requires an eye relief that is consistent with what’s used on a rifle, such as a scope, then that gun will also be considered a short barreled rifle."
Using decent optics on a cheek pistol (with which they're clearly used in the same manner that rifle optics are) may be illegal.
All optics I use have infinite or near infinite eye relief. All options have better eye box, eye relief and less magnification than the current and old offerings of hunting pistol optics.
Don't worry. They will get around to your cheek weld sooner than later. Good luck.
You're correct. I'm really hoping the courts strike this down. I'm a vet with neck injuries that result in neuropathy in both hands: literally the guy these things were supposed to aid. Really not looking forward to the next few months
I understand your point about following the law: but not complying and then getting arrested is the necessary first step in pushing a case through the courts. You can't even fight them without first getting caught in defiance, because a judge will just throw out the case and say you don't have standing, otherwise.. Yes, GOA and FPC are trying to fight it now based on a procedural case, because the ATF shouldn't be able to just make new laws like this. But in the meantime, noncompliance to unconstitutional laws was literally demanded of the citizens of this country, by the founding fathers. I can understand if you don't want to be the one Ginnie pig, I have a family too and a lot to lose; but someone has to be the lamb in order to fight them. That's how our system works; otherwise, we just continue to capitulate and they'll keep marching us to tyranny one step after the other, while we never do anything about it. It's not a great strategy for keeping this country free, in the long run. Mass noncompliance is the best tool we have.
Your speaking my language where do we sign up for training
DemonstratedConcepts.com
Man, here's the crazy bit, California when they had to come back and ban varied "bullet button" and other guns that avoided the legal definitions, at least they actually passed a law. The ATF is trying to create a new class here, and in doing so is likely invalidating NFA. Funny thing is, the only gun left with a brace on it, has a 16" barrel.
Back when I first got into guns the snub nose revolver was targeted to banned because they were considered "Saturday Night Specials" , whatever that means!
Thank you for providing some sane, sensible commentary on a dumb ruling. Seen a lot of dumb comments & dumb tweets in the past 24 hours. I don't like the ruling, but anyone who didn't see this coming is clueless. A fucking pistol brace isn't worth becoming a felon over.
That new Ruger LC Charger in 5.7 may be a step up for cheek pistol!!! Hope you can check it out sometime.
Gonna need some good ear pro....my Ruger 57 is probably one of the loudest guns I own. Forgot my ears ONCE.....it was brutal.
@@72twist I have it set up for cheek work and it does a good job. I do have a can on it though so noose isn't as big an issue.
They wouldn't need a brace if they watched this channel
Does birdseye grip on 1301 shotgun fall under this ruling? Any additional thoughts on shotguns regarding ruling? Thanks.
Really not worried. SCOTUS has already provided the tools to shoot this down along with most every other law which infringes on the 2nd. It will take time but in the end this could end up being very good for us.
I’m hopeful as well, but it’s going to take years living under these laws. Learn to run what’s legal in the meantime
Buren Master Race...
I'm sure it will take 5 years or more before the really big cases get overturned. but in the meantime, I guess my braces will have to take a dirt nap somewhere in mexico.
That won't bring your dog, son, and infant-holding wife back to life.
Where I live, I can carry concealed a bazooka if I want.
Assuming your 12 guage will remain longer than than the required 26 inches (18inch barrel), would it be better to get a pistol grip on a shotgun?
Can you test shooting an AR pistol with a tennis ball on the buffer tube?
No. The ‘buffer tube end caps’ are all garbage. They don’t meaningfully increase the surface area that you’d presumably use to shoulder the gun. They add complexity and snag risk and open you up to all the asinine legal problems of stocks/braces on pistols.
@Demonstrated Concepts LLC. 1st, Always wondered when you would use the GBRS Group Hydra mount for tactical operators. 2nd, Always wanted to see you shoot a Kriss Vector.
Here’s one of those things 🤣
instagram.com/tv/CY1cTsKg_XN/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 oh, wow! Thanks. I'm not active anymore but I was wondering how hard it would be with nods. The purpose of the hydra mount is to see better with full gear (vest, helmet...). Nods limit field of view and eye relief. Is cheek shooting possible with operator gear?
Do they not make semi auto short shotguns like the V3 Tac or garaysaur?
Thx for the info . I plan on contacting you for some in person training.
SNUBBIE 22 lrs and 12 Gauges for life! Even blue joe isnt going for 22lr or shotguns hes actually spoken on behalf of both ("buy a shotgun" and "a 22 lr can be removed from the body. . A 9mm", well you know the rest 🤣🤦♂️) but I agree good to own, know how to shoot and be prepared to be legally limited to stuff like this if we don't elect more pro 2a reps
I followed your advice starting about 6 months ago by going 'braceless' with my AR9. I replaced the brace with some foam on a smooth pistol tube and it's not that much different. 👍
How about some videos showing the “SAS method” using a sling…now that arm braces are banned
The sling method works. It’s better when added cheek contact can be made to force eye alignment with optic.
It’s not one vs the other. It’s both.
But sling tension is not environment appropriate in all cases
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 sounds like you just wrote the script for your next video!
New competition class...shotgun and Snubby!🤣
For real. Would be alot of fun.
Heh, a "shockwave and snubby" 2-gun match would be neat.
Are they still charging $200 for this picture SBR thing? I really like the A2 "solid" MP5 stock, so I'll be SBRing mine I guess. I wonder if I can just send a picture of that and SBR it that way. :)
It's a good question that the ATF will have to answer, and even then you can't trust that it will stay that way. Right now they are offering the SBR option for free for 120 days. But like he said in the video, they are requiring you to send in a picture. So I bet you won't be able to put a stock on these like a regular SBR.. and you may not even be able to swap uppers either. When the ATF can just make up any rules that they want, they can simply say: "Your conversion was free because this is a special "braced SBR" - which means you are committed to that rifle as it is shown in the picture you submitted- and you can't change anything on it (other than optics, etc). But you can't swap upper and you can't put a stock on it, unless you pay the regular $200 SBR tax stamp" --- Now this is just speculation, and it may not be true at all. But again, they could still come out months or even years later and say this crap. So they must be stopped, when it comes to letting them change rulings as they please. You can see how this is a complete nightmare in a hurry; and this is exactly why Congress is the only institution that gets to make the laws, because it takes so much more agreement and cooperation to get anything passed. Whereas this Rogue ATF is just making things up on the fly, that are making us all felons overnight. This is NOT the way it's supposed to be run. And I wish the speaker of the house would come out and make a statement about putting them in their place; and not just leave this up to the courts.
Keep in mind that sending photos is sending evidence of possession.
Along with 40+ million people. Keep in mind; the ATF has never approved even 1 million SBR applications in one year. In other words.... You're sending incriminating evidence directly to those that would incriminate you, with all the evidence they'd need to charge you. And there's practically zero chance that you'd get approved in the grace period. You'd be felonizing yourself. Don't do it.
Unfortunately, they left the ruling vague to any attachments on the end of the AR lower. Including the buffer tube. So I'm not even sure a smooth round buffer tube with a cheek weld will pass this rule. It's all subjective and could still be deemed an SBR.
‘Attachment’ = not necessary for the function of the action. Nothing new there. The standard AR needs the tube to cycle. All the other designs where it is t necessary for function- trouble
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 ruclips.net/video/DggOmUXxVWY/видео.html a lawyer from GOA say's a round buffer tube is still subjective, which is how I read it also.
Another response to the surface area issue of the buffer tube. ruclips.net/video/_pUgv3opMfY/видео.html
I haven't read the rules yet, but does the ruling specifically refer to the manual of arms? Does putting a buffer tube to your shoulder turn a pistol into an SBR? What about putting your cheek to it?
Bare tube has always been trouble free. Regardless of use. Cheek has benefits over shoulder for high mobility work.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 agree, I just haven't read the ruling and don't know if it's line stops at physical objects or heads into actual user technique, which seems to be precisely the issue at hand with braces.
Seems like the right place to ask...
Would a flat out pistol (MPA 30dmg) with a buffer tube attachment (alone, nothing on it but maybe paracord) fall under the obscure ruling of "able to be shouldered- by total length/weight- ect"...
Yes, there are better options of a cheek pistol but it's what I personally want to do. I just don't want to get caught on some minute bs detail or factor making me a "criminal".
If it isn’t necessary for the function of the gun, I could see it as being ‘an attachment’. Grey area as far as I know, but I wouldn’t.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 I genuinely appreciate you reaching out, as far as I know there's allot of effort/pushback against this weird rule because there's allot of "fucked if you do fucked if you don't" that me and others more educated than I have found.
A big example that's been in circulation is if you're automatically denied your stamp by it waiting to be decided on for too long, the weird length of pull argument, and of course what truly counts as able to be shouldered. Don't wanna reply with an entire book but there's really allot to discuss on this latest ruling.
Does anyone find it odd that the ATF repeatedly said that Braces were OK; and now, mysteriously, that a Anti-Gun President is in office, they have changed their mind?
What would you recommend for left handed shooters?
He runs a Kel-tec CP33 which is ambidextrous. Don't know if 22lr is what you are looking for, but that platform seems easy enough to run from either hand.
So you don't think they are going to cause a stink about the optics with limited eye relief obviously only being able to be used if shouldered? We all know that's a bs part of the rule, people have put scopes on revolvers for years, those aren't SBRs, and obviously a cheek weld allows the use of any optic with out shouldering.
“Following the law is still the best way not to go to prison” is such a basic take yet still pisses off tons of people
Yeah, violations of the Constitution should land ATF agents in prison. Agreed.
I've never seen anyone actually use a brace to strap an AR to their arm. At this juncture the best course of action is to abolish the SBR tax.
Maybe "least likely to be banned in the future" is not a good future plan after all... GUNS will be banned. The line has been stepped on for quite some time now and it keeps progressing.
Your solution involves complying with authority that has no regard for actual laws (there fore they are implementing an UNLAWFUL order by definition) and authority who have and are willing to kill people for disagreeing with them. Also, their dogs.
The only downside I see with the cheek method is that you lose the upright posture and thus losing par of your peripheral vision.
Cheeking is more upright than shouldering. Some benefits of the technique are enhanced traverse and upright posture.
Regarding Colorado’s proposed “assault weapons ban” I’m already doing what I know to do on the political front, but I welcome any suggestions. It is terrible to see Colorado fall under the control of statists.
Sad as the bad laws are, I agree 100% best to follow the law! Stay legal. If you ever have to use it don't want to end up locked up even in justified use, bscause it wasn't legal for some reason.
Don't comply plus move to a free state.
Yea. Because the government won't eventually come after snub nosed revolvers. 🤦🏿
Brace? What brace?
Also, buy an M1 Garand and lever gun.
Rebellion is key
Following the law of the land in defiance of null, illegal laws, is not rebellion.
"LaNd Of ThE fReE" 🤡🌎
Grandview is quite a drive from Garwood, but I'm going to try to save up the money
Looking forward to training with you!
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 I should ask, will a 22 be acceptable?
(I have other options if not)
Ideal. Especially in an enigma express.
ATF cant legislate law.
With 5.56mm training without a brace is not a big deal. I've tried cheeking it many times and I shoot it pretty well that way. It's just annoying how stupid it looks (like a big dildo sticking out of the gun). I'm probably going to have a piece of cloth or flexible leather hanging down over mine so it doesn't look stupid, but where that piece can't be used as a stock.
For .300 uppers however, it is not so easy due to the stouter recoil. It's doable but it's not going to be much fun shooting that way. I'll probably end up re-barreling mine to a 20" 5.56mm barrel and gas system after I shoot up all my .300 blackout ammo.
But I'm going to wait for the lawyers to have a good look at these new rules and let them summarize the key points before I make any decisions. But, if they only allow you to SBR the lower matched with only one upper, then to hell with that, I'm just destroying the cheap brace on mine. I've been training more with my full size 16" AR anyways.
What I'm curious about is whether in that almost 300 page document, they ban "Any Other Weapon" shotguns like the Mossberg Shockwave. Hopefully they don't make us get tax stamps for those as well. It's B.S. that these laws penalize law abiding citizens who just need a compact but stable home defense firearm, while criminals will continue using sawed off shotguns and rifles all day long.
To all my fellow mossberg shockwave owners out there. Just go a head and put a stock on it if you have a brace. ( If legal in your state via form 1 etc) You are welcome.
Unless they filled out a form 1 no one should ever have a pistol brace on their Shockwave in the first place. It is not a pistol. It may be legal depending on interpretation, but good luck to anyone trying to play the "legal gray area" card with the cops.
I think you're right. They are "allowing" these braced pistols to be converted to SBR's for free-- so I bet that means you cannot put a stock on it; without paying for the tax stamp. smh.. What a joke.
Washington Gun Law did a q+a on this. Once it’s an SBR, you can do whatever you want. You just can’t change the barrel length. Stock or brace really doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t send a photo of the full weapon though. You would be incriminating yourself if you did.
I never found braces useful but I still think this latest “edict from on high” sucks. After watching you cheek weld your .22 pistol effectively I decided to try it with my AR pistols. The results were much better than I expected. I sh*tcanned all the braces and started training exclusively using a plain, foam covered buffer tube, the cheek weld AND a sling. Until I saw your vid it had never occurred to me to ever try this way of controlling the weapon. With the cheek and the sling I now have four quite solid points of contact.
Or just don't comply, that's free, and you get the full capability of a standard cap SBR, while also actively contributing to a culture that will preserve freedom instead of helping the ATF justify their actions. Just my take, worth as much as it costs.
Fuckdaatf
Have you seen the FightLite Bandito? an AR pistol not with a brace that would fit your Cheek pistol concept like a glove.
A Glock 43 is my 50 state companion.
What about a braceless tube and a 45 degree foregrip?
Last week USA be like "come and take them!". Next week USA be like "come and take these pictures!".
These laws are non issues in Texas thanks to state legislation. Find a not shitty state people
Just run a stock.
Its all a big trap!
Braces were a scam and everybody knew it. It's hilarious to see so many act like it's so unfair when everyone knew it was a scam.