Yes I tried an AF 1100 last year and the front Wheel is special ( 21 ) so the feeling is different on road but perhaps it’s better in off road mode. I liked the dash and brakes but the seat is hard. Protection is better on Super T and the seat too. Engine is slighly the same because very torquy between 2000 and 4000 rpm. I think AT is better in off road mode and Super T is better on road ( confort, seat and protection )
Since my financial situation changed, after only 7000km on the bike, I sold it and bought a used bike to replace it. Conclusion: I’ll be posting about my “new” used bike soon but the Super Tenere is really an awesome touring machine. I did 1300km in a day on it, and wasn’t sore or anything, just tired, as you would expect after riding that long :) My next video should be done this week (showing how the bike was when I sold it) and I’ll cover what I replaced it with, stay tuned!
I own of the very first Super 10 in production. 350K kilometers so far. I did the total of Europe 6 times and runs like every Japanese bike. Perfect. Honestly I never had any problem with this bike whatsoever. Only regular service according to service manual. I change tires every 5k . It is used for touring only as my primary bike is either an R1 or my 2022 MT-09 SP for Sunday blast. I don't use bikes for commuting. All you said are correct. Fully agree with you :)
40k miles on my 2019 ST. Other than a rear drive seal at 25k, and maintenance, no problems. I love it. Looks like I'll have to keep it till it quits, or Yamaha puts out another adventure bike...
My st12 raid edition 2018 has 140.000 kms. Runs like the fist day, 0 issues. Rebuilded suspensions at 120k. Valve check at 40K, all fine and won't check again untill 160K. Sounds good, starts at the furst glance with original battery, runs perfect, smooth and strong. It's an awesone well built machine.
Still riding my 40K mile 2013 ST and enjoy it. Was on the fence between it and a GS1200 when I bought it, and the Honda AT was not out just yet, so I went with the ST. Mainly because I like to tour a lot, but love to ride the dirt mountain passes in Colorado and elsewhere. It does what I need well. So the price point between it and the Beemer made the decision. Plus I liked how the Yamaha was easier for me to work on. If my 06 KLR had a 6th gear I'd choose it over the Tenere because after all these years I've got the 150K mile KLR tuned to fit my riding style, comfort level and maintenance down to a side of the road art form. LITERALLY! The Tenere is a beast to pick up when loaded, but what isn't? But man, it can get me to Colorado in a hurry, and still do the dirt. Good review of the 2.
Thanks Curtis, 150k on a KLR is pretty impressive, they don't call them tanks for nothing. I loved the GS1200, but I've read so many having issues with drive shaft and electronics, that I didn't consider it. That and my R9T brand new, was using 1L of oil per 10000km...on a brand new 2018 BMW. I rented a Husqvarna 701 in Denver 2-3 years ago and rode hours of beautiful trails and went up Pikes Peak. Colorado is really the motorcycling paradise. Right up there with Australia and California.
I just bought a 2017 Super Tenere last week. I'm a Honda guy at heart but my reasons for buying were: The S10's are unusually cheap (or at least great values) post-covid... The AT's have gone up a few grand from where I'm sitting- Both are reliable as any motorcycle.. Because of its age, speaking of the S10, there are a few RTW guys on the internet have 300,000 miles on them! I would love an AT as well but the S10's will gobble up the miles and do some dirt for not much money .
I ride a 2017 S10, 70+kms still enjoy this bike. Wife and I have driven from the East Coast of Canada to the West Coast of USA on this bike. It eats up the miles with no issues. Biggest maintainance has been tires. (Its due for a valve adjustment, when I took it back to the dealer for the first scheduled adjustment, they told me not to bother until its due for the second. That the bike sounds fine and history shows they go much farther than specified) I have never had issues with removing or installing the boxes and have never bent a key in 5 yrs. (Push down on the lid) I did change out the seat to a Sargent seat, for me that was a good choice. Would like to see Yamaha do a better job on the screen adjustment though. I like the second lowest adjustment when I ride solo, with my wife on it, I set it to the second highest (this keeps the buffeting off of her)
Great review, current owner of 2016 S10 (non ES) with 84000 km on it, despite clutch cassette rattle on idle zero issues 3 and a half years and 44000 km of ownership. Having a 2023 CRF300 Rally as I am too lazy for a hiker. After my spine was fixed this winter the stone single trails are not an option for me for now/for good?. Considering swapping by two bikes for a 2024 (maybe 2025) Africa base model ES. Test rode it this Monday and man what a blast ride it was. S10 is now a speed demon and I am willing to close the mortgage before someone closes me so speed was never deal breaker. BUT this is fast, sound great/fast and pulls scary (maybe just for me), I liked it a lot. New Africa 1100 will be great on easy gravel/light off road (my primary goal) and good enough for the touring part. Only the AT bench they call it seat is a thing worth mentioning. Africa is light years lighter on the saddle - not top heavy at all - can hold it inclined near 50-60 degree angle on one foot - totaly imposible with my S10 Borko
I havent tried the AT 1100, but Im sure it feels very agile. I think for touring the Super Tenere ES is still a better bike (and why I just bought another one), but its always about compromises for the type of riding you do. Can’t really go wrong either way! 😎
From the owner of a 2016 S10 ES: down side 19 inch front (marginal) and the extra Kg, as you pointed out. Pro: the screen, heated grips, cruise control and the 23 litre tank (Those alone allowed me to do a 1700 km day trip). Even on the hardest setting whilst loaded for long hauls it is too soft, nearly toppling over when filling the tank (it did once, no damage to the bike, but my helmet filled with fuel spilled out of the open tank filler !). Love the thing though, on the long runs it is like a lounge chair with a motor. Ridden in -4C over the Blue Mountains and two crossings of the Nullarbor Plains in 47C.
I had the S10 for 8k miles , great touring bike. Tubeless tires, shaft drive , cruise control, made it a better touring bike for me. I ran Pirelli scorpion rally str, good off road and excellent on road, lasted 8.5k miles.
I just got a cherry used s-10 2012 only 20k miles! I hear great things about Pirelli! What kinda off road did you encounter i am looking to ride fire roads about it in state parks. In jersey
@@oxman1834 I did some gravel passes in Colorado and some desert riding in Utah, deep sand scares me . Not bad for a big and heavy bike. Tires are always a compromise, off road I can slow down, on road I need it to perform best.
@@oxman1834 I'm in Maryland. I just found a 2013 S10 with 10k and some very useful farkles for a great price. Has a Givi tailcase (which I hate and removed) and I will use a combo of Tusk Pilot panniers and Kriega modular bags for my luggage. It has almost new Shinko 705s on now that will suit my upcoming big trip. May change to road-centric for the following 10k miles (Michelin Road 6) but will see where the path leads. Can't wait to for it to warm up a bit and get some miles on!!
I love my ST (2016) now with 65.000km my last round trip in 4 days was Toronto Tail of the Dragon and back via the blue ridge highway almos 4000km of back roads and twisties… just did the valve check and everything was up spec. So don’t check them until 80k :) and I do the maintenance myself. I can’t find a bike to replace it yet…
Fantastic! I did ToD, Back of the Dragon, Front of the Dragon, Ass of the Dragon and the Blue Ridge last fall on my previous bike. Can't wait to try again on my recently purchased '13 ST!
Excellent review! Just bought a '13 ST so instant sub for future content. Comment section here was more useful than many forums I have looked at. Will check back after I get some KMs on the new ride.
I bought my Super Ten new in 2014 and still own it, totally reliable . I had a BMW 1200GS before it and had no end of niggling problems with it which is why I sold it. It was never much appreciated by the press at the time but I could care less on their opinions. It has excellent mpg and a 23l tank means fuel stops are less frequent than most.
Ive ridden 700km on mine today, mix of highway and b-roads, 160-175km/h at times, avg of 4.8L/100km or 49mpg, pretty impressive. The 1200GS is a great bike too, but to hit 100000km on it, you’ll spend a fortune. The Superten will get you there, without a glitch, as long as you change oil and tires.
There are many Super Tenere’s on the road with 300,000 miles on them and still running trouble free. The AT has a Long row to hoe just to get into that club.
The older Africas are from 2016 so we see less with huge mileage than we can find on 20+ year old Super Teneres, but Ive seen one AT with 400000km. Well maintained, I wouldn’t be concerned with either bike :)
Reliability, the Yamaha has been everywhere and zero or almost zero issues from users. You can disable the rear ABS by putting bike on center stand running bike in 2nd gear
You can redo the wiring so you have a switch to turn off the abs. There’s a guy with a video on it. I think to turn abs back on you have to turn off bike. That’s still alot better than center stand in 2nd gear
I have a 2012 ST that I've owned for about 5 years now. I would like to reiterate, that the beat improvement you can do with these bikes is get the ECU flashed. It gets ride of that twitchy throttle, improves engine braking, and adds a considerable amount of pep. Especially if you can put a full exhaust system on it, like thr Arrow. At 30k miles i reworked the forks and put a Ohlins shock on and it really made the bike ride better and even added abiut an inch of clearance. I'm 6'3" and 250lbs so i needsd the beedfier suspension. Being this size I've found few if any bike that are as comfortable as the ST. Ive made a few other mods here and there and have no intention of moving to another bike ADV bike and it will be the last bike that i will get ride of when I find myself at that point in life.
Very useful video for me, as these are the 2 bikes I am considering buying. I think for me, the Yamaha has the edge as admittedly I will spend most of my time on pavement. My off road riding is done on a YZ250X. The shaft drive and cruise control are big plusses for me. Thank you for being concise and clear, much appreciated.
The newer africa would have more features but I dont see how you can go wrong with the super tenere its incredible value for the price specially if you buy used :)
I enjoyed the review! I have a WR 250R for off road too. I have had 3 YZ 250's too!! The funnest bike ever !!! ,"The Yamaha also has tubeless wheels, that combined with the shaft drive are a lot less maintenance. But I like off road a lot. I'm torn. I love Yamaha's - had 11 of them. But the AT is a good bike too, w a 21" front wheel, I like that. Tough choice for sure
Traded in my 2019 Triumph Scrambler XE for a 2013 Super Ten, that I never test-rode before hand.. and I'm glad I didn't, as I wouldn't have bought the Yam after a test ride. After a week I was in love. Compared with the Triumph, it is just a solid driver, that there is no need to hang off the throttle in every gear, it will get you to where you want to go, every time. I use it for commuting every day, and do plan on using it for longer rides. The Triumph was great for commuting, but that chain drive was a big no for me.. only had it for 6 months and had to go back to a shaft drive.. but glad I rode it, as it helped me understand the Super 10 better. Have driven the Triumph Explorer, but they can get expensive if dropped.. like all Triumphs. The Tenere did drop on me, was going slow speed, and it stalled with a full turn on the bars, only one way it was going to go really.. and so glad it happened once, I never want to have to endure that hell again lol.
I have 2018 and I mostly agree with your review. Though few important notes need to be added: front brakes are terrible, just terrible, theres no way to say it. Spongy feeling, and weak power, you have to squeeze pretty hard compared to regular road bikes eg. And one of biggest AT advantage you forgot to mention is DCT. Its game changer, absolutely awesome, thats huge advantage honda has over all competition. Imo 2020+ AT dct is the way to go
For the brakes it might be yours, my 2021 braked fine really, even with luggage and passenger. The way you describe it makes me think your brakes might need some maintenance. From memory the AT and Super Tenere were equivalent in terms of braking. As for DCT yes many absolutely love it, and you can’t find that option on many brands!
Something worth mentioning, carrying capacity. Me and the wife were a combined 470 lbs, I'm cutting down about 50 lbs but this is a steady consideration when looking at new bikes if we're going to do any 2 up riding for more than a rip around town. From what I've found online the Atwin tops out at just under 400 lbs! the ST can handle 465, which is a substantial difference. i know "theres some play in the numbers, engineers error on the side of safety" but the line crossing unsafe isnt something i wanna flirt with considering on a bike the rider(s) are the crumple zone lol. I LOVE the look of the twin, but its not the right fit for us unfortunately. The ST is really feature loaded for the money though! 20 grand in canada with metal side cases? whats the next cheapest large ADV with a shaft drive? gotta be 7-9 grand more..... Is it as lively as a tiger or ktm? no. but it'll likely go 4x the kms without issues
I ride a Sup. Ten for 45000km. My friend rides an Afr. Twinn. We often do trips with our wifes. I agree whith all you said. To add: If you ride with an co-rider, the aditional weight, makes the Sup Ten even smoother and safer while driving. On the Afr. Twin the co-rider sits high above and is not confortable - on the Sup Ten he is!
Great review, thank you ! I have a Z1000SX and I like it a lot, but I keep thinking of going light off-road from time to time. So both the bikes you tested are an interest for me.
I currently own a 2018 Suzuki VStrom 1000XT. Me too looking at the Yamaha Super Tenere as my next bike. The main reasons I like the S10 is the looks, shaft drive, reliability and good wind protection. I seldom go off road. Most of the time on tarmac.
It's really an excellent touring bike (just did 1300km in a day last weekend). I tried a Vstrom 1000 of 2018 or 19 and definitely prefer the Yamaha (though the Vstrom is a tank also and by no means a bad bike).
@@Speedytrip One of my friend just bought a 2014 S10. I would love to try riding the bike and compare it against my VStrom. Do you feel the heavier S10 requires more effort to control than the lighter VStrom?
@@7777Gixer It's been years since my test ride on the Vstrom, but I'd say the Super Tenere carries its weight very low. Moving it around in the garage you know its around 600lbs, but the minute you start riding it, it doesn't feel any heavier than my 500lbs Africa Twin did. And if most of what you do is touring, that weight will be your friend (more stability, feels planted even when windy, comfort, etc).
Great assessment. I agree with everything you said. I had 2013 Super T and My current bike is A 17 AT. To me I felt like I sat on top of the Super T and with my AT I fell like I am sitting in it. I prefer the AT over all but I did love the seat on the super T
Question. So has anything changed on the ST from 13 to current? I found a 13 ST with 4000 mile for 7000usd. Is that worth buying or should I go with a new model?
@@totalglitch 2014 is the Upgrade year. Spend 1/2 for a gen 1 over what you do a gen 2. I have had 1000's of miles on both and the 14 and later is a good reliability and comfort and fuel mileage upgrade
Good review! I had a new SuperTenere 1200 2016 with manual suspension for 30k km and loved it, although I found the S10 a bit bulky to drive. Early this year I switched to a BMW R1250GSA that drives far more agile in my opinion. I hear many complaints about the panniers, but I loved them when I got used to them. They keep the bike much smaller than other bikes with panniers, much smaller then the BMW cases I must say.
Thanks! Yeah I did get used to the panniers, still not great but much better than the first times, and it does keep the bike relitavely narrow :) I havent tried the latest GS but Im surr its fantastic!
You posted this 9 months ago. Which bike would you recommend as a new purchase. I am torn between the Super 10 and a BMW GS Adventure. I do a lot of nation wide road trips and reliability and comfort are very important. I've exhaustively researched both bikes, but value the opinion of actual owners of the bikes. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
@@rso1411 Somehow I missed this comment. I'll answer in case someone else has the same question :) I'd say if reliability is a priority, you are 100% better off with the Super 10. Cheaper to buy, and cheaper to own. Just read the forums of people putting 100000km on a GS, and see how much they spent in maintenance and repairs to get it there...it ends up being a lot of $/km. As for comfort, the GS might have a slight edge, but the Super 10 is still probably the most comfortable and spacious bike I've ever owned.
If this was a comparison between a 21 africa twin adventure sports and the super tenere, the only grip you would have is the chain drive. The adjustable windscreen on the new africa twins is light-years better than the tenere. The twin is an all around better bike in comparison to the same year tenere. I've spent time on a super tenere and ended up buying a twin having never ridden one. Couldn't be happier, and this coming from someone who has never owned or liked any honda products. All-in-all, I do believe there is an adventure bike for every riding style.
For sure, the comparison was because the 2019 was my previous bike (and tenere has remained unchanged since 2014), so not an unfair comparison from that angle. The maintenance on the new AT is still more intense if you ride a lot. But as you can see in my comparison, even the 2019 standard AT was an amazing bike, otherwise I wouldnt have kept it 3 years :) I also wanted a 19” front wheel for what i do. Hopefully those looking at the used market will find this helpful an maybe encourage them to try both and see which ones feels better to them for what they do.
@@Speedytrip exactly. I didn't mean any disrespect in my comment. I do enjoy aspects of all of the adventure bikes. Your comparison had good points on both sides. Have fun and ride safe! ✌️
Hello to the motorbike community. I have a question for anyone with the knowledge and experience. I am contemplating buying a brand new ADV this spring. I basically have it narrowed it down to 2 options. Option A) 2023 Honda Africa Twin Super Adventure Manual. Like the style and look, I am concerned about the continual maintenance on the chain. It is not uncommon for me to jump on my current bike and put ~500 km's on it in a day on the weekend (311 miles). I am also concerned about the comfort, both in the seat and wind protection. I read lots of information and people love them and of course people will gripe as well and for good reason, experience on the bike. Everyone is different. Is this bike going to be comfortable enough for a few very long days in the saddle from time to time? Although we all get off our bikes every 2-3 hours to fuel on a long trip, still good to have really good comfort when needed. Is this bike the one to have if a person gets an upholsterer to redo the seat to your butt contours? Will that make it an awesome long haul machine? Option B) 2023 Yamaha Super Tenene 1200. I understand this bike is boring (perhaps compared to some of the competition) but with that come great all day comfort in the saddle and super easy maintenance and reliability. Maybe not as much fun as some of the competition, but my current bike also has shaft drive and has had zero issues in 13 years of ownership. So maybe I don't want to give up reliability and low maintenance? Also, perhaps the Tenere is reaching it's last year of production, what happens if they do this year and I want to own the bike for 10+ years? This bike that I buy will be a long long time purchase and possibly my last bike (maybe not), but as we get older we look for more comfort. The riding I will do is 80-90% on the pavement and 10-20% gravel and fire roads. HOWEVER, I live an hour away from the mountains and perhaps with an ADV, that ratio will switch to less highway and more gravel/fire roads..........we'll see, the ADV could open a whole new chapter in my riding. The Honda would be a no brainer, but does the Yamaha do the same job with a little less fun factor? Would love feedback from all people that have/had either or both bikes and let me know based on your experience and knowledge. Thank you!
@@danman5857 I haven't tried the 2023 Africa Twin, but I don't think one could be disappointed. As for seat, comfort, etc, everyone is different, I absolutely hated the stock seat on my Africa Twin it was painful after 30 minutes, yet some love it stock and ride 500km no issues. I personally often replace the seat, put handle bar risers, lower the foot pegs, cause I'm 6'1", someone who's 5'10" might feel like everything is just perfect. I've had chains on most of my bikes and if you ride reasonably, you'll just have to replace chain/sprockets every 30-40000km. As for the Tenere, I think it's still probably a better touring machine, based on my 2019 experience, but possibly the 2023 AT could be better...I'd recommend trying both on 2 seperate days, and see which one makes you want to ride most. With small changes you can make both bikes tailored to your needs. I don't think anyone could be disappointed with either bike. I do love the simplicity of the ST over the newer AT...but to me less electronics on motorcycles is just generally better, more so if you plan on it being your last bike, you don't want this stuff to fail once it's out of warranty. Hope this helps!
I have a 2012 ST. I love the bike, but they have their issues. No bike is perfect. The thing I really don't like about the ST is having to take a bunch of stuff off to do maintenance, any deeper than changing the oil. If you change bikes out every 2 years, you'll have no problems. I like to keep bikes, so have to work on them. The handlebars will ruin your wrists after a hundred miles. Change them out to pro-taper adventure high. The aluminum foot pegs snapped off on me. Replaced them with pivot pegs. You'll probably want to change out the saddle, unless they changed that. After 200 miles, it feels like sitting on a rock. Thus the pivot pegs and high flat handle bars help me to stand easier while on the move. Several years ago, a rash of them had malfunctioning ignition switches that showed as side stand malfunctions. The automatic cam chain tensioner may go out eventually. Listen for rattle on start up. Mine rattled for several years, but noticed cam chain noise after about 4 and changed it out. Saddle bags break keys, and if you drop the bike on the non-muffler side, the bag will pop off the floating peg towards the spokes and be a pain to dislodge. Getting soft luggage will reduce the weight considerably. After 10 years the ABS Module malfunctioned leaving me without breaks on a trip. Used my gearing for brakes to get me home. ABS Module cost $2,000.00. By-passing it until I can afford to buy a new one. Don't like doing that, but have checked the junk yards and can't find one. I like the quartz halogen headlights and don't need any LED enhancements as I have trained my eyes to see in low light. The purpose is to see, not be angry. If you drive with high beams all the time, you train your eyes to need brighter and brighter lights. LED's do not have reflective light, so you are required to add beams that go in every direction, blinding on coming drivers. I personally like the quiet pipes. I like to keep my hearing. Besides, where I live, noise is not appreciated. Because of the ABS issue, I will have to slow down for awhile. I regularly ride between 85-100 mph on the highways. The deceleration of this engine when dropping the throttle has probably saved me from some speeding tickets. The ST overall has been a great experience. I rode through a pea size hail storm in the mountains and had no trouble keeping the bike upright with the traction control. I'm 68 and still riding.
You seem to have experienced just about everything that could go wrong on the ST (have the first years of production probably didn't help). I’ve heard some put 150000km on their ST without even checking the valves once. But I agree many modern bikes are a pain to work on, my Africa twin was just as bad. My DR650 is the easiest bike to work on. I'm 6’1”, so on most bikes I put bar risers, drop the pegs and raise the seat, I did all those on the ST and it was extremely comfortable. Some old BMWs are notorious for abs failure and they are extremely expensive to replace. Statistically speaking, yamaha is the most reliable brand, but unfortunately all bikes can have problems. Ive had a ducati monster brand new and everything was failing on it, spoke with another owner he had put 60000km on his without a single glitch. In 6000km my fork was leaking, paint on tank flaking, paint on frame rubbing off from a cable, traction control malfunctioning, rear brake master cylinder leaking, they replaced the entire front brakes, and I'm probably forgetting other problems…all repaired under warranty but I clearly had a lemon… Wishing you thousands of trouble free mileage from here! :)
I have a 2016 Africa Twin, and while I'm not realistically going to change at any time soon, I always like to think about my next bike. I had been thinking about a Super Tenere (and I had test-ridden one before buying the AT). But I agree with your assessment, and I think for my riding, the AT is the better bike. The difficulty of maintenance sucks, as I need the 25,000 service soon. Ease of service will definitely be something I consider before I purchase my next bike.
Yeah I think if Honda increased the valve check to 45000km or even went back to hydraulic valve lifters it would be quite a proposition. Having aur filters accessible in 2 minutes would also be a huge improvement. The bike clearly wasn’t optomized for maintenance by any stretch of the imagination. They could also make a version with a shaft drive for the adventure sport. It will be intereeting to see where they go from here and also curious to see if Yamaha will launch another super tenere.
My 2010 Super Tenere has oe boxes that have been used for 69000 miles with original keys and locks. I've abused them too. They aren't as bad as people make them out to be
@@Speedytrip I just press the lid down when I turn the key. I have had to refit the screws on the cylinder of one pannier lock and have bent a few keys a bit but nothing ever broken
@@robinjameshartley7673 I think your preventive actions avoided you some issues. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on them or I'll just buy a rack and put my Kriega OS32 I still have from my now sold Africa Twin.
Great comparison. When I tried the (new) ST the throttle was twitchy at low speed. Couldn't get over that. Love my 17 AT ! DCT is awesome too. Chain is going good at 30k
Thanks and yep you can never go wrong with the AT. At 30000km mu chain and sprockets we’re still good as well. Havent tried the DCT yet but its on the list to try!
Great concise review. I initially was looking for an Africa Twin. But got a really well looked after S Ten. Man it's way out front compared to other adventure bikes I've owned. I built my own custom tail pipe. She sounds agro now. 46mpg. Best tires by far are the MOTOZ Tractionator GPS. Hands down...no comparison. Such a pity this bike was never the darling of the bike media.
Thanks and indeed I think the super ten is one of the most underrated adventure/touring bikes out there. I hope Yamaha designs a new one at some point!
You can absolutely adjust the windscreen while riding; that’s why it has cruise control 😆 If you prefer to unload the suspension while adding preload, just do it on the side stand before mounting. I have both these bikes as well and the big thing you (and most) missed is that while the AT has better off road chops, it comes with a caveat; CG. The AT feels more top heavy due to its higher ground clearance (no free lunch). The S10 is heavier, but some of that is the shaft, which is down low. Having all the unsprung weight a few inches lower makes a world of difference. In the end they’re both great bikes that you can comfortably spend all day riding. Now; is the new AT AS the Goldilocks compromise?
Technically, with cruise control, we could make a sandwich :D But let's just say that after all these years, they could just have a quick look at the competition and greatly improve the windscreen adjustement design. As for CG, I've owned 2 Africa Twins, and now on my 2nd ST1200, and I'm not convinced the lower CG on the ST compensates enough for the weight difference, I feel like the ST is more comfortable, a better touring bike, and nimble for it's weight, but I felt the Africa felt quite a bit lighter (wheelies on the Africa in 2nd gear were easy, on the ST, you got a lot of weight to balance hehe (it can be done, but requires a bit more skill). I'd love to try the newer AT to see where it's gone from since my 2019 model...
Greetings, I think I was your subscriber 1000. I’m a happy 2017 Africa twin owner, but……….. The lack of cruise control and non adjustable windscreen is a big downside. I’ve done about 10,000 miles on the AT and only about 150 of those were off-road. Strongly considering a used S10. Nice video and Happy trails.
Thanks @Old Timer for pushing me over 1000 subscribers! hehe On my Africa the Batzen screen adjuster made a nice difference. The stock windscreen on the ST is better, but still not brilliant, many will add deflectors to replace it. The shaft drive is also a very nice addition, it's so nice just being able to hose the bike down without thinking about adjusting, cleaning, greasing the chain. The only 2 things I really think Yamaha missed the mark on is the suspensions on rough roads (the AT is better there) and the throttle response, otherwise its an amazing road bike very confident inspiring on dirt/gravel roads even if its 87lbs more than the AT.
Thanks, unfortunately I haven’t tried it yet. There’s WAY more electronics on the new AT than on the Super Tenere and this can be good and bad…Im not sure how all tgat tech will age as some have already reported issues with the color display…but I wouldnt exclude it from my shopping list either! Valve maintenance is the same and not the easiest of bikes to work on, that remains.
Goodday to you you are spot on with the assessment this is my 2nd Super T .about the suspension change having to put it on the Center stand first time this has been brought up i hace never dun that you can change this on the go .enjoy and stay safe
Thanks for watching! :) Ive read about others changing preload on the sidestand, some do it while sitting on the bike (but manual states there shouldnt be weight on the bike for that). For the damping (SOFT/STD/HARD) it can indeed be done while riding. Ill post back probably mext month about the suspensions as Ill be having them resprung and revalved. Keep the shiny side up! 😎
Однозначно Хонда, очень надёжна, отличная подвеска на оф роад, классный мотор, прекрасная коробка DCT, не для хард эндуро конечно, но вообще сам мот, не для харда.. Очень универсальный мотоцикл. О согласен с тем, что если в основном асфальт Супер Тенере будет немного комфортнее и по подвеске, меньше клюёт и по настройкам мотора.
You cant really go wrong either wat, Ive had 2 africa twins and now on my second super tenere. Long distance touring, S10 is slightly better and comes with luggage, more offroad africa is better.
All of them hehe. Tiger has a 20000km valve adjustment, the Versys 1000 is heavy and I don't like inline 4s, as you have to be redlining them all the time to enjoy them. The 1250GS was too expensive, I already had 2 africa twins, and I liked the idea of a drive shaft, and reliability on a yamaha was not a concern, so thats pretty much how I ended up with the ST1200 :)
Good presentation. I’ve got the Super T Raid edition and it’s an excellent bike. Very torky at low and middle rpm and confort / protection is perfect. Further more very easy to get with tools because very easy to access. I’ve already tested the AT but I don’t like the protection and the seat ( hard ).
I’m the opposite. Went from a 2014 ST to a 2021 AT1100L. Loved them both but for me the AT1100l is next level compared to the ST. I would recommend the AT if you plan on any off reading.
100%, its not much easier on the super tenere but you do it less often. The valve schedule is something I look at when buying a bike. On my DR its a 45 minute job.
I have a 2020 Super Tenere ES. The sport mode on the bike is so twitchy it is almost unridable. If you hit a bump in a corner it will react and scare the hell out of you. It is only usable on smooth highways managing it with the clutch. I have taken this to two Yamaha mechanics, and spoken to a third. All of them told me this is how it works. I like the power of sport mode, but the twitchy response to the throttle is dangerous. I can’t believe my bike’s sport mode is working correctly. Is this how yours works? I’d appreciate a response to this comment.
I’d say a lot of modern bikes are twitchy in sport mode. When I had an FZ09, most on the forums felt it was way too twitchy in sport mode, but I got used to it. On the Super Tenere I was always in sport mode but if I was touring or in the city, I would use the smoother modes. So answer is yes its “normal” but you can have it remapped to smoothen the throttle and extract a few extra poneys, had I kept it, I would have done it :)
I'm torn between Honda AT and Yamaha ST. With a budget of 10K €, my options are a 2018 AT or a 2015 ST (more or less). I want a bike comfortable for two people for 200-300 km (or more) trips, but I'd like to have something good for some off-road when I want to have some fun when I have no passengers on the back. In the past I had Yamaha XT 550 and XTZ 660...
Thats really a tough one…youll have to compromise either way. If most of what you do is touring 2 up, the ST hands down. If you plan on spending 30%+ of your time offroad, the AT is 100lbs lighter…but don't get me wrong, the ST is plenty capable on dirt and gravel roads, you can watch my other video I reached 200km/h on a dirt/gravel road :)
My riding partner as the Ténéré we went out west Canadian coast and the Ténéré ended on a flat bed in Vancouver battery dead. Again in Niagara falls in Easter weekend would not start, battery dead I heard they're weak spot is battery issue.
I'm not sure a working bike causes battery problems. Batteries need maintenance and care. All motorcycle batteries are basically the same. 60,000 miles on 2 different tenere. Only battery problems were 1 faulty negative post on an interstate battery, and a handful of operator errors. Ie. Don't start a tenere and not let it warm fully up. It makes it in happy, and the resulting hard start will drain your battery
I have a 2019 AT dct model and it's just a fantastic all round bike. It's plenty fast enough, sounds great, looks great, v comfortable position and I'm 6'5". Only grumble is wind buffeting but I guess I get that on every non full fairing bike.
Yeah thats why Ive had naked bikes most of my life hehe If you havent already, look into the Batzen screen adjuster for the AT it really made a difference for me. With earplugs I could ride all day.
Be interesting to calculate and compare the cost of ownership over ten years and 100 000 miles. Given fuel consumption, tires, maintenance and residual value, I suspect the AT would be the winner. By far. Opinions to the contrary?
@Walter Wilkins I think the valve check schedule (16k miles on the AT means about 6 valve checks to get to 100k miles, vs 26k miles on the Super Tenere (and thats Yamaha being super conservative, 30k miles would be fine) that means under under 4 valve checks), on the Supertenere you'll spend about 20-30$ on drive shaft oil, on the Africa, you'll probably go through 4-5 chain/sprocket sets (at 250$ a pop)... Rough estimates, for 100k miles, you'd burn around 8000liters (2113 US gallons) on both bikes. The regular vs premium gas here in Canada would mean a difference of about 1790$ more expensive on the ST. Just the 2 extra valve checks on the Honda are 2000$ right there, and at least another 1000$ in chains and sprockets. So all in all, in terms of maintenance, I still think the ST would be cheaper in the long run and for resale value it should be roughly the same. Time will tell as the oldest AT are 2016 and older SUper Tenere seem to be selling at roughly the same price.
@@Speedytrip Unless it’s often ridden in gritty stuff I think you may be overestimating chain/sprocket costs and, based on my BMW shaft drive problems, I’ve lost my enthusiasm for shafts. Also, depending on riding habits, valve adjustments can be postponed. I’m not a big fan of 21” wheels though, 19” is sufficient for my needs, more tire selection too. I have a line on both bikes so, this is all food for thought . . .
@@UncleWally3 Bmw are notorious for shaft drive failures (always have and probably always will). You can have a shaft drive fail on a Tenere, but its extremely rare. Im not loyal to any brand, Ive had bikes of most brands, but statistically speaking, Yamaha is the most reliable motorcycle brand, followed closely by honda and kawasaki if I remembef well. Bmw makes fantastic bikes but reliability is not their selling point. Equipment, comfort, electronics, luxury, yes. Again the AT id also a fantastic bike but for frequency and ease of maintenance they are now behind Ducati…which says a lot! My 1991 Honda nighthawk required less maintenance, it was much faster and easier and it had hydraulic valve lifters so 0 maintenance on that…
I did 2 valve checks and adjustment both times for a total of $550 by local mechanic. Never gonna buy a chain. Valve check interval short on AT. Besides a battery, plugs and air filter,. That is all the maintenance on my 79,000 mile tenere
I wish to bring up the ST back to Europe. its not in the offer anymore. used bikes are getting more expensive. 3-4 YO bikes are more expensive than new ones at day they were sold first
Ive owned bikes of just about every main brand (And Im not lotal to any brand) and Id say all the big 4 Japanese bikes are neck to neck. Statistically Yamaha is #1, but other big 3s are very close and my mind would be at peace with any of them. Ive seen a guy report putting 400000km on his Africa twin (and he wasnt done with it) so yeah well maintained they will last for ever. My 91 nighthawk 750 has 130000km and still runs like a champ :)
First time I hear that about the africa, what year did you have? Any bike with a 21” is a bit slower turning but it never felt like handling was bad for an adventure bike :) what can be tiring sometimes is turbulance from the windscreen for taller riders.
The two bikes are similar enough IMEO. The deal maker for me is The Yamaha ST has a stock center stand and it is a shaft drive. The Chain driven Honda AT only has a side stand stock. I have owned five Honda Motorcycles. I know Honda makes good Machines. The ST will be my first Yamaha. Im still working on buying new. I need more cash down. Dont we all ; )
Finally, someone else who understands that shim bucket valves are the work of the devil and there’s no reason for them to be present. Honda figured it out in the late 80s no less! Nighthawk 750 rev to 10,000 RPM and there was no valve float which means there is no excuse for not using hydraulic lifters.
100%, even harley on their new engine for the pan america (9500rpm with 150hp) uses hydraulic lifters (like on all their engines from my understanding). I can only think manufacturers still use shim bucket valves to make you spend at the dealer. In the 60s and 70s it was expected that most owners would do their own valves and frequency was like under 10000miles but it was far easier to do. On an Africa Twin or Super ten its a full days work for an experienced mechanic, alot of stuff needs to come off before you even get to the valves.
Great comparison over all but; 8:50 They're both Japanese but they don't feel premium... Did I hear that right?? I just makes me wonder; What does feel premium in your opinion ? An over-engineered BMW which is 6 to 8k more expensive and goes from one problem to the next on all their fancy electronics? Or a italian multistrada which is garanteed to let you down sooner or later in the most impossible spot? All ride safe out there.
@Ray’s hobby farm. Premium and reliability is different. An Audi feels premium, a Toyota is reliable :) Triumph is a good exemple of bikes that both look/feels premium while still having good reliability.
All other manufacturers have it in the other order. Its like if they decided to put the rear brake on the left side…this should be standardized accross all brands.
Exactly, Im saying all basic controls (including horn and indicators) should be standard. And since honda is the exception they should adapt to all the other brands :)
You’ve got a great country to ride! :) I was up Mt Buller a few years ago on an R1200GS. Also did the Great Ocean road. One week was definately not enough, such a large and beautiful country!
@@Speedytrip Appreciate your quick response. I currently ride a 2020 Tracer 900. Btw, I will be riding in QC in the next 2 weeks. That’s a well done video, am a huge fan of both these bikes. Keep up the good work.
@@Speedytrip its been pretty good so far. Bought it last March(2021) and now it has 16,900Kms on the odo. Has plenty of torque, can ride at 3K rpm in 6th gear without getting an engine knock. After this trip I will be at around 21K kms.. The only down side is that it needs 91+ octane gas and has low ground clearance, the oil pan gets hit first even before the exhaust, ha ha
@@PSANDEE Yeah I wish they stopped making bikes that ran on Premium...even my Super Tenere runs on Premium, I put 48$ in the tank the other day...I remember back in the day my Speed Triple would cost me about 18$ to fill it to the top...
I had a 16 AT. Suspension sucked, bottoms out all the time if ride hard on the dirt and desperately needs an upgrade for your weight and riding style (200lbs). Traction control sucks and cuts off instead of modulating. Rear frame cracked, front instrument cluster frame cracked. Hard to work on and get to anything compared to Tenere. Engine is fantastic though. Now I own a 17 Tenere. No complaints, does everything well just a little heavier and that could limit you a little off-road depending on how far you push it. Either way, I never looked back. Tenere is a hard core bike. AT is for cruisers. Can’t go wrong either way, just set your expectations right. Oh, tubes vs tubeless. Tenere easy to plug on the side of the road if needed. Honda missed that one…too. My personal experience, your may vary
Yeah I've seen reports of bad welding, rust issues etc mostly on the older AT (and mostly on white frames), and on the 17,18,19 Adventure Sport version, they had problems with deposits from the tank clogging the fuel pump. But on my 2017 and 2019 AT Standard, both bikes have been absolute flawless...aside from like you said, how labor intensive these bikes are. It's such a pleasure working on my 91 nighthawk, you don't need to split the bike in half to get to the air filters lol I can't compare the traction control on the 2016 but on the 2017 I remember it being pretty good and on the 2019 it was probably the best I've ever had, when set on the minimum intervention level, I could power slide for 50-60 feet no problem, which is not something any other bike I've tried would let me do with any TC on (I would typically remove it, like I do on the ST when on dirt, cause it just doen't let you have any fun, it interveins to aggressively, even on the lowest setting). I personally liked the suspensions on the Africa Twin, I jumped a few times and never felt like it was a problem, on road, the softness was quite welcome on our horrendous winter obliterated Canadian roads. Now at 4000km on the ST, and still VERY happy with the bike! Thanks for watching! :)
I could already power wheelie the ST in 2nd gear, fully stock. I now have a MIVV slipon and will probably have it flashed next winter but mostly to smooth out throttle response on Sport mode.
I had a 2017 Africa twin and liked a lot about the bike but never got used to the 21 inch front wheel and long travel suspension on the road. The cornering never felt good to me. I sold the bike after only one year and got a vstrom 1000 with a 19 inch front wheel which felt much much better for cornering. Did you notice a big difference in cornering between the AT and S10?
I never really had problems with my 2017 and 2019 africa twin, but the Super Tenere is certainly more road biased and it handles way better than its weight should allow it to. Its also more stable than the africa in the twisties. As to which one handles best, I think it boils down to how you use the bike. The vstrom 1000 was not a bad choice either.
Id get a used low mileage 1200st, and use the rest of the money to travel. :) The 2023 is exactly the same as the 2014… not worth buying new. The 1250GS is also an amazing bike, but a BMW…
@@SpeedytripI think you're right!!!! I'd like to find out what year they started to put cruise control/quick shifter/heated grips on the 1200 and start there!!!!
The 19” on Super Tenere does compensate for its extra weight compared to the 21” on Africa (on road). The Africa handles very nice but I was surprised how nimble the Super10 was considering its weight. Engine is new and weather has been around 0C, but I think in ideal conditions the Super10 could out pace the Africa on nice twisty roads. It’s nimble AND feels very planted, I think the ST has a slight advantage on twisty roads. Ive only put 150km on the Super Tenere, in cold weather and engine is still in break-in period (reving under 4k rpm) so I dont have good real world normal numbers, but I would get around 400km out of the 19 L on the Africa (until empty) and expect around that out of the 23L tank on the Super Tenere (even if at times computer was telling me I had 500km in range, I dont think thats realistic unless your going 50km/h on cruise control for hours). I’d expect someone conservative on the throttle could get 350-400km realistically, but Ill report back once Ive put more km on it. Thanks for watching! :)
Depending on your height and weight you might want risers and an aftermarket seat, and windscreen but yes its one of the most comfortable bikes Ive owned. 600km in a day, no problem. With that said, the Super Tenere is slightly better for touring. I haven’t tried the crosstourer, I dont remember seeing one on the road around here.
Only one bike has a DCT option. DCT On my Africa Twin has saved my life a couple of times when some idiot has cut in front of me and I had to hit the anchors hard. It downshifted and got itself in the right gears while all I did was brake hard, steer, and pray for the best. One time, in the bloody rain, this idiot pulled out of a parking lot right in front of me. I'd seen him and suspected he'd do that so I was ready when he actually did, but why did the ________ (insert your invective of choice) see me, wait, ... then go?!?!?!? Another time, the travelling lanes on I75S (Dallas) were pretty much stopped. I was in the carpool lane which was moving freely and has plastic bollard separating it from the main highway. No one in front of me, I have my aux lights on (they're bright as fudge) and this nincomtwit drives over the bollards into the carpool lane. He had plenty of time to do it before me i wasn't directly behind anyone. He had plenty of time to do it after me, there was no one following me. Nope. Had to wait until I was almost on him before he moved. Luckily where he did it there is a space on the other side of the carpool lane that just opens up at that point. I hit the brakes hard and swerved to the side. My front wheel was level with his rear wheel. If I hadn't swerved to the side i'd have had to go into the back of his Ford Escape or into the traffic that wasn't moving. I liked that Africa Twin so much that when my brother crashed it I got another one. And when some cell phone using numpty wrecked that one, I bought a third one. All DCTs. I've got over 80k miles on them, mostly on road, mostly commuting and touring.
Italian bike sheiter dump talk, stick to what you have in front of you and talk about that. Comparing a barely run in Africa Twin with a shop-dust carrying new SuperTenere that barely saw the street while being an older model. The biggest comparison is that it looks angry vs. friendly, while other comparisons don’t count as there’s no real experience behind for such a long-term type comparative review.
Title of the video: "My 2019 Honda Africa Twin after 30000km vs new 2021 Yamaha Super Ténéré". If the title ain't what you're looking for, you can watch another video, why so much aggression? I cover most aspects including maintenance schedules, I even put time stamps in the description so you can go straight to what you're looking for...I got over 1k likes and over 200 positive comments, some might find it useful? Ive ridden over 150 different bikes over 400000km in many countries, I know them pretty well. It takes many hours putting a video like this together and you paid 0$ to watch it…By leaving a comment (good or bad) on a video, you are actually helping the youtube algorithms, so I'd recommend only leaving positive comments on the videos you do like, and no comment on those you don't unless it's constructive feedback). Hoping the rest of your day is better. Cheers.
You completely contradict yourself at 0:48 and 1:28. You say there were one or two valves out of spec and were adjusted. Then you say that it has hydraulic valve lifters, so it doesn't need adjustment... ever. So, which one is it? Or are you believing everything the dealership mechanic is telling you and letting them take your money? And 150km isn't anywhere close to having a valid opinion of any machine for a comparison. You haven't even reached the first service yet, let alone 1500km to actually start developing an opinion and long term comparison.
I'm talking about my nighthawk 750 at 1:28 (you can even hear me say nighthawk on your time stamp 1:28 ;) ). I was illustrating how over the years, Honda just made their machines more labor intensive. I think the thumbnail and title was quite explicit of what the video was about. Me comparing my previous bike to my new bike. It wasn't a Super Tenere long term review. I've ridden over 300,000km on probably 150 bikes. No I can't give a long term review after 150km, but I can have a pretty good idea of what I like and don't like about a bike in the first 10km, so basically this was my first impressions on the ST, compared to my 30000km on the AT. I go to the same independant mechanic I've been going to for most of my bikes for like 15 years, if valves don't need adjusting, he doesn't adjust them (and it's happened that he checked valves and they were all in spec). But yes it's something to be careful with, if you don't trust your mechanic/dealer learn to do it yourself or bring it somewhere else where you know they are trustworthy. Sorry you didn't enjoy my video. Thankfully there's plenty more on YT for you to watch :)
Have you tried both, which one did you prefer and why? :)
Yes I tried an AF 1100 last year and the front Wheel is special ( 21 ) so the feeling is different on road but perhaps it’s better in off road mode. I liked the dash and brakes but the seat is hard. Protection is better on Super T and the seat too. Engine is slighly the same because very torquy between 2000 and 4000 rpm. I think AT is better in off road mode and Super T is better on road ( confort, seat and protection )
Yamaha all the way
Any updates?
Since my financial situation changed, after only 7000km on the bike, I sold it and bought a used bike to replace it. Conclusion: I’ll be posting about my “new” used bike soon but the Super Tenere is really an awesome touring machine. I did 1300km in a day on it, and wasn’t sore or anything, just tired, as you would expect after riding that long :) My next video should be done this week (showing how the bike was when I sold it) and I’ll cover what I replaced it with, stay tuned!
@@Speedytrip awesome. Sorry about your finances. Same way here in America. Getting ready to sell my family van….may you be financially blessed.
I own of the very first Super 10 in production. 350K kilometers so far.
I did the total of Europe 6 times and runs like every Japanese bike. Perfect.
Honestly I never had any problem with this bike whatsoever. Only regular service according to service manual. I change tires every 5k . It is used for touring only as my primary bike is either an R1 or my 2022 MT-09 SP for Sunday blast. I don't use bikes for commuting.
All you said are correct. Fully agree with you :)
Wow 350k km is impressive! That bike has clearly been used as intended! Thanks for watching and ride safe! :)
40k miles on my 2019 ST. Other than a rear drive seal at 25k, and maintenance, no problems. I love it.
Looks like I'll have to keep it till it quits, or Yamaha puts out another adventure bike...
My st12 raid edition 2018 has 140.000 kms. Runs like the fist day, 0 issues. Rebuilded suspensions at 120k. Valve check at 40K, all fine and won't check again untill 160K. Sounds good, starts at the furst glance with original battery, runs perfect, smooth and strong. It's an awesone well built machine.
Yep, they are tanks. I've seen guys go over 200000km without ever checking the valves.
was suspensions electronic (ZE/ES) on yours?
@netegalkaka ES on 2014+ 😎
Still riding my 40K mile 2013 ST and enjoy it. Was on the fence between it and a GS1200 when I bought it, and the Honda AT was not out just yet, so I went with the ST. Mainly because I like to tour a lot, but love to ride the dirt mountain passes in Colorado and elsewhere. It does what I need well. So the price point between it and the Beemer made the decision. Plus I liked how the Yamaha was easier for me to work on.
If my 06 KLR had a 6th gear I'd choose it over the Tenere because after all these years I've got the 150K mile KLR tuned to fit my riding style, comfort level and maintenance down to a side of the road art form. LITERALLY! The Tenere is a beast to pick up when loaded, but what isn't? But man, it can get me to Colorado in a hurry, and still do the dirt.
Good review of the 2.
Thanks Curtis, 150k on a KLR is pretty impressive, they don't call them tanks for nothing. I loved the GS1200, but I've read so many having issues with drive shaft and electronics, that I didn't consider it. That and my R9T brand new, was using 1L of oil per 10000km...on a brand new 2018 BMW. I rented a Husqvarna 701 in Denver 2-3 years ago and rode hours of beautiful trails and went up Pikes Peak. Colorado is really the motorcycling paradise. Right up there with Australia and California.
Thanks for this, I've been a Honda guy all my life but that shaft drive definitely will have me considering the Super Tenere
You're welcome, it's really hard to go wrong either way, but yes the shaft drive is quite a nice perk! :D
How long does a set of chain and sprockets last on the Africa Twin?
@tomhikins2041 depends on riding style, maintenance, quality of the parts, but personally its between 30-40000km.
I just bought a 2017 Super Tenere last week. I'm a Honda guy at heart but my reasons for buying were: The S10's are unusually cheap (or at least great values) post-covid... The AT's have gone up a few grand from where I'm sitting- Both are reliable as any motorcycle.. Because of its age, speaking of the S10, there are a few RTW guys on the internet have 300,000 miles on them! I would love an AT as well but the S10's will gobble up the miles and do some dirt for not much money
.
You can’t go wrong with that, keep the shiny side up! 😎
I ride a 2017 S10, 70+kms still enjoy this bike. Wife and I have driven from the East Coast of Canada to the West Coast of USA on this bike. It eats up the miles with no issues. Biggest maintainance has been tires. (Its due for a valve adjustment, when I took it back to the dealer for the first scheduled adjustment, they told me not to bother until its due for the second. That the bike sounds fine and history shows they go much farther than specified) I have never had issues with removing or installing the boxes and have never bent a key in 5 yrs. (Push down on the lid) I did change out the seat to a Sargent seat, for me that was a good choice. Would like to see Yamaha do a better job on the screen adjustment though. I like the second lowest adjustment when I ride solo, with my wife on it, I set it to the second highest (this keeps the buffeting off of her)
Great review,
current owner of 2016 S10 (non ES) with 84000 km on it, despite clutch cassette rattle on idle zero issues 3 and a half years and 44000 km of ownership. Having a 2023 CRF300 Rally as I am too lazy for a hiker. After my spine was fixed this winter the stone single trails are not an option for me for now/for good?. Considering swapping by two bikes for a 2024 (maybe 2025) Africa base model ES. Test rode it this Monday and man what a blast ride it was. S10 is now a speed demon and I am willing to close the mortgage before someone closes me so speed was never deal breaker. BUT this is fast, sound great/fast and pulls scary (maybe just for me), I liked it a lot. New Africa 1100 will be great on easy gravel/light off road (my primary goal) and good enough for the touring part. Only the AT bench they call it seat is a thing worth mentioning. Africa is light years lighter on the saddle - not top heavy at all - can hold it inclined near 50-60 degree angle on one foot - totaly imposible with my S10 Borko
I havent tried the AT 1100, but Im sure it feels very agile. I think for touring the Super Tenere ES is still a better bike (and why I just bought another one), but its always about compromises for the type of riding you do. Can’t really go wrong either way! 😎
From the owner of a 2016 S10 ES: down side 19 inch front (marginal) and the extra Kg, as you pointed out. Pro: the screen, heated grips, cruise control and the 23 litre tank (Those alone allowed me to do a 1700 km day trip). Even on the hardest setting whilst loaded for long hauls it is too soft, nearly toppling over when filling the tank (it did once, no damage to the bike, but my helmet filled with fuel spilled out of the open tank filler !). Love the thing though, on the long runs it is like a lounge chair with a motor. Ridden in -4C over the Blue Mountains and two crossings of the Nullarbor Plains in 47C.
Just did 1300km in a day Saturday…this is definitely a touring bike :)
I had the S10 for 8k miles , great touring bike. Tubeless tires, shaft drive , cruise control, made it a better touring bike for me. I ran Pirelli scorpion rally str, good off road and excellent on road, lasted 8.5k miles.
@Luca Caileanu What did you think of the suspensions on broken roads?
I just got a cherry used s-10 2012 only 20k miles! I hear great things about Pirelli! What kinda off road did you encounter i am looking to ride fire roads about it in state parks. In jersey
@@oxman1834 I did some gravel passes in Colorado and some desert riding in Utah, deep sand scares me .
Not bad for a big and heavy bike. Tires are always a compromise, off road I can slow down, on road I need it to perform best.
@@Speedytrip mine was dialed just right for my weight. Bike fit me like a glove, for hight , weight and touring purpose.
@@oxman1834 I'm in Maryland. I just found a 2013 S10 with 10k and some very useful farkles for a great price. Has a Givi tailcase (which I hate and removed) and I will use a combo of Tusk Pilot panniers and Kriega modular bags for my luggage. It has almost new Shinko 705s on now that will suit my upcoming big trip. May change to road-centric for the following 10k miles (Michelin Road 6) but will see where the path leads. Can't wait to for it to warm up a bit and get some miles on!!
I love my ST (2016) now with 65.000km my last round trip in 4 days was Toronto Tail of the Dragon and back via the blue ridge highway almos 4000km of back roads and twisties… just did the valve check and everything was up spec. So don’t check them until 80k :) and I do the maintenance myself. I can’t find a bike to replace it yet…
Fantastic! I did ToD, Back of the Dragon, Front of the Dragon, Ass of the Dragon and the Blue Ridge last fall on my previous bike. Can't wait to try again on my recently purchased '13 ST!
Excellent review!
Just bought a '13 ST so instant sub for future content.
Comment section here was more useful than many forums I have looked at.
Will check back after I get some KMs on the new ride.
Thanks, report back how you like it! :)
I bought my Super Ten new in 2014 and still own it, totally reliable . I had a BMW 1200GS before it and had no end of niggling problems with it which is why I sold it. It was never much appreciated by the press at the time but I could care less on their opinions. It has excellent mpg and a 23l tank means fuel stops are less frequent than most.
Ive ridden 700km on mine today, mix of highway and b-roads, 160-175km/h at times, avg of 4.8L/100km or 49mpg, pretty impressive. The 1200GS is a great bike too, but to hit 100000km on it, you’ll spend a fortune. The Superten will get you there, without a glitch, as long as you change oil and tires.
I like how you've got the same mindset as me. That is "there no snow _on the road_ so time to ride".
There are many Super Tenere’s on the road with 300,000 miles on them and still running trouble free. The AT has a Long row to hoe just to get into that club.
The older Africas are from 2016 so we see less with huge mileage than we can find on 20+ year old Super Teneres, but Ive seen one AT with 400000km. Well maintained, I wouldn’t be concerned with either bike :)
I have 43k Kilometre’s on my ‘16 AT…runs like it’s a new bike. Still looks as good as new too. Can’t fault it.
Reliability, the Yamaha has been everywhere and zero or almost zero issues from users.
You can disable the rear ABS by putting bike on center stand running bike in 2nd gear
You can redo the wiring so you have a switch to turn off the abs. There’s a guy with a video on it. I think to turn abs back on you have to turn off bike. That’s still alot better than center stand in 2nd gear
I have a 2012 ST that I've owned for about 5 years now. I would like to reiterate, that the beat improvement you can do with these bikes is get the ECU flashed. It gets ride of that twitchy throttle, improves engine braking, and adds a considerable amount of pep. Especially if you can put a full exhaust system on it, like thr Arrow. At 30k miles i reworked the forks and put a Ohlins shock on and it really made the bike ride better and even added abiut an inch of clearance. I'm 6'3" and 250lbs so i needsd the beedfier suspension. Being this size I've found few if any bike that are as comfortable as the ST. Ive made a few other mods here and there and have no intention of moving to another bike ADV bike and it will be the last bike that i will get ride of when I find myself at that point in life.
Do you find it more comfortable with the Ohlins? I've yet to try an Ohlins equipped bike that didn't rattle my teeth...:)
Very useful video for me, as these are the 2 bikes I am considering buying. I think for me, the Yamaha has the edge as admittedly I will spend most of my time on pavement. My off road riding is done on a YZ250X. The shaft drive and cruise control are big plusses for me. Thank you for being concise and clear, much appreciated.
The newer africa would have more features but I dont see how you can go wrong with the super tenere its incredible value for the price specially if you buy used :)
I enjoyed the review! I have a WR 250R for off road too. I have had 3 YZ 250's too!! The funnest bike ever !!! ,"The Yamaha also has tubeless wheels, that combined with the shaft drive are a lot less maintenance. But I like off road a lot. I'm torn. I love Yamaha's - had 11 of them. But the AT is a good bike too, w a 21" front wheel, I like that. Tough choice for sure
@krob-sn7ek Thanks for the kind words :) There’s also an Africa twin with a 19” on the way…a lot of choices! Im still having a blast on mt DR650!
Traded in my 2019 Triumph Scrambler XE for a 2013 Super Ten, that I never test-rode before hand.. and I'm glad I didn't, as I wouldn't have bought the Yam after a test ride. After a week I was in love.
Compared with the Triumph, it is just a solid driver, that there is no need to hang off the throttle in every gear, it will get you to where you want to go, every time. I use it for commuting every day, and do plan on using it for longer rides.
The Triumph was great for commuting, but that chain drive was a big no for me.. only had it for 6 months and had to go back to a shaft drive.. but glad I rode it, as it helped me understand the Super 10 better.
Have driven the Triumph Explorer, but they can get expensive if dropped.. like all Triumphs.
The Tenere did drop on me, was going slow speed, and it stalled with a full turn on the bars, only one way it was going to go really.. and so glad it happened once, I never want to have to endure that hell again lol.
The scrambler 1200xe is one of the few bikes I regretted buying, mostly for the suspensions, otherwise it was a fun a bike.
I have 2018 and I mostly agree with your review. Though few important notes need to be added: front brakes are terrible, just terrible, theres no way to say it. Spongy feeling, and weak power, you have to squeeze pretty hard compared to regular road bikes eg. And one of biggest AT advantage you forgot to mention is DCT. Its game changer, absolutely awesome, thats huge advantage honda has over all competition. Imo 2020+ AT dct is the way to go
For the brakes it might be yours, my 2021 braked fine really, even with luggage and passenger. The way you describe it makes me think your brakes might need some maintenance. From memory the AT and Super Tenere were equivalent in terms of braking. As for DCT yes many absolutely love it, and you can’t find that option on many brands!
Something worth mentioning, carrying capacity. Me and the wife were a combined 470 lbs, I'm cutting down about 50 lbs but this is a steady consideration when looking at new bikes if we're going to do any 2 up riding for more than a rip around town. From what I've found online the Atwin tops out at just under 400 lbs! the ST can handle 465, which is a substantial difference. i know "theres some play in the numbers, engineers error on the side of safety" but the line crossing unsafe isnt something i wanna flirt with considering on a bike the rider(s) are the crumple zone lol. I LOVE the look of the twin, but its not the right fit for us unfortunately. The ST is really feature loaded for the money though! 20 grand in canada with metal side cases? whats the next cheapest large ADV with a shaft drive? gotta be 7-9 grand more..... Is it as lively as a tiger or ktm? no. but it'll likely go 4x the kms without issues
I ride a Sup. Ten for 45000km. My friend rides an Afr. Twinn. We often do trips with our wifes. I agree whith all you said. To add: If you ride with an co-rider, the aditional weight, makes the Sup Ten even smoother and safer while driving. On the Afr. Twin the co-rider sits high above and is not confortable - on the Sup Ten he is!
Indeed, the super ten rides really smooth with a passenger and overall comfort for the passenger is better than on the AT :)
Great review, thank you !
I have a Z1000SX and I like it a lot, but I keep thinking of going light off-road from time to time.
So both the bikes you tested are an interest for me.
Thanks glad you enjoyed! The z1000sx is a great bike too, just not so great on your drivers license 😜
I currently own a 2018 Suzuki VStrom 1000XT. Me too looking at the Yamaha Super Tenere as my next bike. The main reasons I like the S10 is the looks, shaft drive, reliability and good wind protection. I seldom go off road. Most of the time on tarmac.
It's really an excellent touring bike (just did 1300km in a day last weekend). I tried a Vstrom 1000 of 2018 or 19 and definitely prefer the Yamaha (though the Vstrom is a tank also and by no means a bad bike).
@@Speedytrip One of my friend just bought a 2014 S10. I would love to try riding the bike and compare it against my VStrom. Do you feel the heavier S10 requires more effort to control than the lighter VStrom?
@@7777Gixer It's been years since my test ride on the Vstrom, but I'd say the Super Tenere carries its weight very low. Moving it around in the garage you know its around 600lbs, but the minute you start riding it, it doesn't feel any heavier than my 500lbs Africa Twin did. And if most of what you do is touring, that weight will be your friend (more stability, feels planted even when windy, comfort, etc).
@@Speedytrip Thanks for all the information. You are making me more excited to own a Super Tenere. 😊
You’re very welcome, come back to let us know what YOU thought of it once you’ve tried one! :)
Great assessment. I agree with everything you said. I had 2013 Super T and My current bike is A 17 AT. To me I felt like I sat on top of the Super T and with my AT I fell like I am sitting in it. I prefer the AT over all but I did love the seat on the super T
Thanks, I also had a 2017 AT, you certainly can’t go wrong with that! Really fun bikes. :)
Question. So has anything changed on the ST from 13 to current? I found a 13 ST with 4000 mile for 7000usd. Is that worth buying or should I go with a new model?
Mostly electronic suspensions, new cluster and reinforced wheels (2016+), aluminum sidestand on 2014+ are the main things I remember…
@@totalglitch 2014 is the Upgrade year. Spend 1/2 for a gen 1 over what you do a gen 2. I have had 1000's of miles on both and the 14 and later is a good reliability and comfort and fuel mileage upgrade
@@totalglitch you can get a good 14 for 8000 with some decent farkles
Good review! I had a new SuperTenere 1200 2016 with manual suspension for 30k km and loved it, although I found the S10 a bit bulky to drive. Early this year I switched to a BMW R1250GSA that drives far more agile in my opinion. I hear many complaints about the panniers, but I loved them when I got used to them. They keep the bike much smaller than other bikes with panniers, much smaller then the BMW cases I must say.
Thanks! Yeah I did get used to the panniers, still not great but much better than the first times, and it does keep the bike relitavely narrow :) I havent tried the latest GS but Im surr its fantastic!
You posted this 9 months ago. Which bike would you recommend as a new purchase. I am torn between the Super 10 and a BMW GS Adventure. I do a lot of nation wide road trips and reliability and comfort are very important. I've exhaustively researched both bikes, but value the opinion of actual owners of the bikes. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
@@rso1411 Somehow I missed this comment. I'll answer in case someone else has the same question :) I'd say if reliability is a priority, you are 100% better off with the Super 10. Cheaper to buy, and cheaper to own. Just read the forums of people putting 100000km on a GS, and see how much they spent in maintenance and repairs to get it there...it ends up being a lot of $/km. As for comfort, the GS might have a slight edge, but the Super 10 is still probably the most comfortable and spacious bike I've ever owned.
If this was a comparison between a 21 africa twin adventure sports and the super tenere, the only grip you would have is the chain drive. The adjustable windscreen on the new africa twins is light-years better than the tenere. The twin is an all around better bike in comparison to the same year tenere. I've spent time on a super tenere and ended up buying a twin having never ridden one. Couldn't be happier, and this coming from someone who has never owned or liked any honda products. All-in-all, I do believe there is an adventure bike for every riding style.
For sure, the comparison was because the 2019 was my previous bike (and tenere has remained unchanged since 2014), so not an unfair comparison from that angle. The maintenance on the new AT is still more intense if you ride a lot. But as you can see in my comparison, even the 2019 standard AT was an amazing bike, otherwise I wouldnt have kept it 3 years :) I also wanted a 19” front wheel for what i do. Hopefully those looking at the used market will find this helpful an maybe encourage them to try both and see which ones feels better to them for what they do.
@@Speedytrip exactly. I didn't mean any disrespect in my comment. I do enjoy aspects of all of the adventure bikes. Your comparison had good points on both sides. Have fun and ride safe! ✌️
@@DEZERT-TRAXX Right back at you :) Lets see how long I keep the ST hehe
Hello to the motorbike community. I have a question for anyone with the knowledge and experience. I am contemplating buying a brand new ADV this spring. I basically have it narrowed it down to 2 options.
Option A) 2023 Honda Africa Twin Super Adventure Manual. Like the style and look, I am concerned about the continual maintenance on the chain. It is not uncommon for me to jump on my current bike and put ~500 km's on it in a day on the weekend (311 miles). I am also concerned about the comfort, both in the seat and wind protection. I read lots of information and people love them and of course people will gripe as well and for good reason, experience on the bike. Everyone is different. Is this bike going to be comfortable enough for a few very long days in the saddle from time to time? Although we all get off our bikes every 2-3 hours to fuel on a long trip, still good to have really good comfort when needed. Is this bike the one to have if a person gets an upholsterer to redo the seat to your butt contours? Will that make it an awesome long haul machine?
Option B) 2023 Yamaha Super Tenene 1200. I understand this bike is boring (perhaps compared to some of the competition) but with that come great all day comfort in the saddle and super easy maintenance and reliability. Maybe not as much fun as some of the competition, but my current bike also has shaft drive and has had zero issues in 13 years of ownership. So maybe I don't want to give up reliability and low maintenance? Also, perhaps the Tenere is reaching it's last year of production, what happens if they do this year and I want to own the bike for 10+ years?
This bike that I buy will be a long long time purchase and possibly my last bike (maybe not), but as we get older we look for more comfort. The riding I will do is 80-90% on the pavement and 10-20% gravel and fire roads. HOWEVER, I live an hour away from the mountains and perhaps with an ADV, that ratio will switch to less highway and more gravel/fire roads..........we'll see, the ADV could open a whole new chapter in my riding. The Honda would be a no brainer, but does the Yamaha do the same job with a little less fun factor?
Would love feedback from all people that have/had either or both bikes and let me know based on your experience and knowledge. Thank you!
@@danman5857 I haven't tried the 2023 Africa Twin, but I don't think one could be disappointed. As for seat, comfort, etc, everyone is different, I absolutely hated the stock seat on my Africa Twin it was painful after 30 minutes, yet some love it stock and ride 500km no issues. I personally often replace the seat, put handle bar risers, lower the foot pegs, cause I'm 6'1", someone who's 5'10" might feel like everything is just perfect. I've had chains on most of my bikes and if you ride reasonably, you'll just have to replace chain/sprockets every 30-40000km.
As for the Tenere, I think it's still probably a better touring machine, based on my 2019 experience, but possibly the 2023 AT could be better...I'd recommend trying both on 2 seperate days, and see which one makes you want to ride most. With small changes you can make both bikes tailored to your needs. I don't think anyone could be disappointed with either bike. I do love the simplicity of the ST over the newer AT...but to me less electronics on motorcycles is just generally better, more so if you plan on it being your last bike, you don't want this stuff to fail once it's out of warranty. Hope this helps!
I have a 2012 ST. I love the bike, but they have their issues. No bike is perfect. The thing I really don't like about the ST is having to take a bunch of stuff off to do maintenance, any deeper than changing the oil. If you change bikes out every 2 years, you'll have no problems. I like to keep bikes, so have to work on them. The handlebars will ruin your wrists after a hundred miles. Change them out to pro-taper adventure high. The aluminum foot pegs snapped off on me. Replaced them with pivot pegs. You'll probably want to change out the saddle, unless they changed that. After 200 miles, it feels like sitting on a rock. Thus the pivot pegs and high flat handle bars help me to stand easier while on the move. Several years ago, a rash of them had malfunctioning ignition switches that showed as side stand malfunctions. The automatic cam chain tensioner may go out eventually. Listen for rattle on start up. Mine rattled for several years, but noticed cam chain noise after about 4 and changed it out. Saddle bags break keys, and if you drop the bike on the non-muffler side, the bag will pop off the floating peg towards the spokes and be a pain to dislodge. Getting soft luggage will reduce the weight considerably. After 10 years the ABS Module malfunctioned leaving me without breaks on a trip. Used my gearing for brakes to get me home. ABS Module cost $2,000.00. By-passing it until I can afford to buy a new one. Don't like doing that, but have checked the junk yards and can't find one. I like the quartz halogen headlights and don't need any LED enhancements as I have trained my eyes to see in low light. The purpose is to see, not be angry. If you drive with high beams all the time, you train your eyes to need brighter and brighter lights. LED's do not have reflective light, so you are required to add beams that go in every direction, blinding on coming drivers. I personally like the quiet pipes. I like to keep my hearing. Besides, where I live, noise is not appreciated. Because of the ABS issue, I will have to slow down for awhile. I regularly ride between 85-100 mph on the highways. The deceleration of this engine when dropping the throttle has probably saved me from some speeding tickets. The ST overall has been a great experience. I rode through a pea size hail storm in the mountains and had no trouble keeping the bike upright with the traction control. I'm 68 and still riding.
You seem to have experienced just about everything that could go wrong on the ST (have the first years of production probably didn't help). I’ve heard some put 150000km on their ST without even checking the valves once. But I agree many modern bikes are a pain to work on, my Africa twin was just as bad. My DR650 is the easiest bike to work on. I'm 6’1”, so on most bikes I put bar risers, drop the pegs and raise the seat, I did all those on the ST and it was extremely comfortable. Some old BMWs are notorious for abs failure and they are extremely expensive to replace. Statistically speaking, yamaha is the most reliable brand, but unfortunately all bikes can have problems. Ive had a ducati monster brand new and everything was failing on it, spoke with another owner he had put 60000km on his without a single glitch. In 6000km my fork was leaking, paint on tank flaking, paint on frame rubbing off from a cable, traction control malfunctioning, rear brake master cylinder leaking, they replaced the entire front brakes, and I'm probably forgetting other problems…all repaired under warranty but I clearly had a lemon…
Wishing you thousands of trouble free mileage from here! :)
I have a 2016 Africa Twin, and while I'm not realistically going to change at any time soon, I always like to think about my next bike. I had been thinking about a Super Tenere (and I had test-ridden one before buying the AT). But I agree with your assessment, and I think for my riding, the AT is the better bike. The difficulty of maintenance sucks, as I need the 25,000 service soon. Ease of service will definitely be something I consider before I purchase my next bike.
Yeah I think if Honda increased the valve check to 45000km or even went back to hydraulic valve lifters it would be quite a proposition. Having aur filters accessible in 2 minutes would also be a huge improvement. The bike clearly wasn’t optomized for maintenance by any stretch of the imagination. They could also make a version with a shaft drive for the adventure sport. It will be intereeting to see where they go from here and also curious to see if Yamaha will launch another super tenere.
My 2010 Super Tenere has oe boxes that have been used for 69000 miles with original keys and locks. I've abused them too. They aren't as bad as people make them out to be
Thats pretty good! I know a guy not too far from where i live, he lost a lock after 150km...bike was brand new. Results seem to vary :)
@@Speedytrip I just press the lid down when I turn the key. I have had to refit the screws on the cylinder of one pannier lock and have bent a few keys a bit but nothing ever broken
@@robinjameshartley7673 I think your preventive actions avoided you some issues. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on them or I'll just buy a rack and put my Kriega OS32 I still have from my now sold Africa Twin.
Great comparison. When I tried the (new) ST the throttle was twitchy at low speed. Couldn't get over that. Love my 17 AT ! DCT is awesome too. Chain is going good at 30k
Thanks and yep you can never go wrong with the AT. At 30000km mu chain and sprockets we’re still good as well. Havent tried the DCT yet but its on the list to try!
I imagine the mode was on sport with your twitchy throttle. Super sensitive like a KTM dirt bike. Braap bravo brap
Great concise review. I initially was looking for an Africa Twin. But got a really well looked after S Ten. Man it's way out front compared to other adventure bikes I've owned. I built my own custom tail pipe. She sounds agro now. 46mpg.
Best tires by far are the MOTOZ Tractionator GPS. Hands down...no comparison.
Such a pity this bike was never the darling of the bike media.
Thanks and indeed I think the super ten is one of the most underrated adventure/touring bikes out there. I hope Yamaha designs a new one at some point!
You can absolutely adjust the windscreen while riding; that’s why it has cruise control 😆
If you prefer to unload the suspension while adding preload, just do it on the side stand before mounting.
I have both these bikes as well and the big thing you (and most) missed is that while the AT has better off road chops, it comes with a caveat; CG.
The AT feels more top heavy due to its higher ground clearance (no free lunch). The S10 is heavier, but some of that is the shaft, which is down low. Having all the unsprung weight a few inches lower makes a world of difference.
In the end they’re both great bikes that you can comfortably spend all day riding.
Now; is the new AT AS the Goldilocks compromise?
Technically, with cruise control, we could make a sandwich :D But let's just say that after all these years, they could just have a quick look at the competition and greatly improve the windscreen adjustement design. As for CG, I've owned 2 Africa Twins, and now on my 2nd ST1200, and I'm not convinced the lower CG on the ST compensates enough for the weight difference, I feel like the ST is more comfortable, a better touring bike, and nimble for it's weight, but I felt the Africa felt quite a bit lighter (wheelies on the Africa in 2nd gear were easy, on the ST, you got a lot of weight to balance hehe (it can be done, but requires a bit more skill). I'd love to try the newer AT to see where it's gone from since my 2019 model...
Greetings, I think I was your subscriber 1000. I’m a happy 2017 Africa twin owner, but……….. The lack of cruise control and non adjustable windscreen is a big downside. I’ve done about 10,000 miles on the AT and only about 150 of those were off-road. Strongly considering a used S10. Nice video and Happy trails.
Thanks @Old Timer for pushing me over 1000 subscribers! hehe
On my Africa the Batzen screen adjuster made a nice difference. The stock windscreen on the ST is better, but still not brilliant, many will add deflectors to replace it.
The shaft drive is also a very nice addition, it's so nice just being able to hose the bike down without thinking about adjusting, cleaning, greasing the chain. The only 2 things I really think Yamaha missed the mark on is the suspensions on rough roads (the AT is better there) and the throttle response, otherwise its an amazing road bike very confident inspiring on dirt/gravel roads even if its 87lbs more than the AT.
Nice video! But what do you think about new AT? It comes with all features that you pointed in Super Tenere
Thanks, unfortunately I haven’t tried it yet. There’s WAY more electronics on the new AT than on the Super Tenere and this can be good and bad…Im not sure how all tgat tech will age as some have already reported issues with the color display…but I wouldnt exclude it from my shopping list either! Valve maintenance is the same and not the easiest of bikes to work on, that remains.
*Shaft drive. 🤠👍
I was just looking at the Yamaha this week. Having a driveshaft instead of a chain is a big plus for the ST. Hurry up retirement!
shaft drives are underrated for sure.
Goodday to you you are spot on with the assessment this is my 2nd Super T .about the suspension change having to put it on the Center stand first time this has been brought up i hace never dun that you can change this on the go .enjoy and stay safe
Thanks for watching! :) Ive read about others changing preload on the sidestand, some do it while sitting on the bike (but manual states there shouldnt be weight on the bike for that). For the damping (SOFT/STD/HARD) it can indeed be done while riding. Ill post back probably mext month about the suspensions as Ill be having them resprung and revalved. Keep the shiny side up! 😎
Great review thanks
To bad Europe does not get the Super Tenere anymore. I hope Yamaha will release a new one soon. With shaft drive please.
Id be surprised if the didn’t. BMW is selling way too many bikes in this segment for Yamaha to abandon it.
Однозначно Хонда, очень надёжна, отличная подвеска на оф роад, классный мотор, прекрасная коробка DCT, не для хард эндуро конечно, но вообще сам мот, не для харда.. Очень универсальный мотоцикл. О согласен с тем, что если в основном асфальт Супер Тенере будет немного комфортнее и по подвеске, меньше клюёт и по настройкам мотора.
I am looking to buy something between these two. Thank you.
You cant really go wrong either wat, Ive had 2 africa twins and now on my second super tenere. Long distance touring, S10 is slightly better and comes with luggage, more offroad africa is better.
¿which other brands of bikes did u consider getting before deciding on the super tenere 1200
i.e; triumph tiger , kawasaki versys etc..
All of them hehe. Tiger has a 20000km valve adjustment, the Versys 1000 is heavy and I don't like inline 4s, as you have to be redlining them all the time to enjoy them. The 1250GS was too expensive, I already had 2 africa twins, and I liked the idea of a drive shaft, and reliability on a yamaha was not a concern, so thats pretty much how I ended up with the ST1200 :)
@@Speedytrip brilliant choice all-around , & not as expensive pricewise as the others 👌
Good presentation. I’ve got the Super T Raid edition and it’s an excellent bike. Very torky at low and middle rpm and confort / protection is perfect. Further more very easy to get with tools because very easy to access. I’ve already tested the AT but I don’t like the protection and the seat ( hard ).
Yeah stock seat on the AT was pretty horrendous and wind protection on the ST is much better :)
I’m the opposite. Went from a 2014 ST to a 2021 AT1100L. Loved them both but for me the AT1100l is next level compared to the ST. I would recommend the AT if you plan on any off reading.
Yep pretty much in line with my recommendati ons, the AT is 100lbs lighter there’s no way around that offroad :)
The Africa Twin is unbelievably difficult to work on… complete strip down for doing valve clearances is a nightmare…
100%, its not much easier on the super tenere but you do it less often. The valve schedule is something I look at when buying a bike. On my DR its a 45 minute job.
I have a 2020 Super Tenere ES. The sport mode on the bike is so twitchy it is almost unridable. If you hit a bump in a corner it will react and scare the hell out of you. It is only usable on smooth highways managing it with the clutch. I have taken this to two Yamaha mechanics, and spoken to a third. All of them told me this is how it works. I like the power of sport mode, but the twitchy response to the throttle is dangerous. I can’t believe my bike’s sport mode is working correctly. Is this how yours works? I’d appreciate a response to this comment.
I’d say a lot of modern bikes are twitchy in sport mode. When I had an FZ09, most on the forums felt it was way too twitchy in sport mode, but I got used to it. On the Super Tenere I was always in sport mode but if I was touring or in the city, I would use the smoother modes. So answer is yes its “normal” but you can have it remapped to smoothen the throttle and extract a few extra poneys, had I kept it, I would have done it :)
@@Speedytrip Thanks for the reply. Have a Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to you too and thanks for stopping by! :)
I'm torn between Honda AT and Yamaha ST.
With a budget of 10K €, my options are a 2018 AT or a 2015 ST (more or less).
I want a bike comfortable for two people for 200-300 km (or more) trips, but I'd like to have something good for some off-road when I want to have some fun when I have no passengers on the back.
In the past I had Yamaha XT 550 and XTZ 660...
Thats really a tough one…youll have to compromise either way. If most of what you do is touring 2 up, the ST hands down. If you plan on spending 30%+ of your time offroad, the AT is 100lbs lighter…but don't get me wrong, the ST is plenty capable on dirt and gravel roads, you can watch my other video I reached 200km/h on a dirt/gravel road :)
The S10 is consistently remarked as a great 2 up bike by pillion riders. Long rides will be better on the Tenere
My riding partner as the Ténéré we went out west Canadian coast and the Ténéré ended on a flat bed in Vancouver battery dead. Again in Niagara falls in Easter weekend would not start, battery dead I heard they're weak spot is battery issue.
It does take quite a bit of power to crank over, I think I remember reading about the battery being updated sometimes after 2014...
I'm not sure a working bike causes battery problems. Batteries need maintenance and care. All motorcycle batteries are basically the same. 60,000 miles on 2 different tenere. Only battery problems were 1 faulty negative post on an interstate battery, and a handful of operator errors. Ie. Don't start a tenere and not let it warm fully up. It makes it in happy, and the resulting hard start will drain your battery
I have a 2019 AT dct model and it's just a fantastic all round bike. It's plenty fast enough, sounds great, looks great, v comfortable position and I'm 6'5". Only grumble is wind buffeting but I guess I get that on every non full fairing bike.
Yeah thats why Ive had naked bikes most of my life hehe If you havent already, look into the Batzen screen adjuster for the AT it really made a difference for me. With earplugs I could ride all day.
A spoiler fixed buffeting for my 17 AT.
Great job 👍🏼
Thanks! :)
My next bike will be STen1200 just like yours... Great video
(1977)
Thanks and hope you enjoy it! :)
Be interesting to calculate and compare the cost of ownership over ten years and 100 000 miles. Given fuel consumption, tires, maintenance and residual value, I suspect the AT would be the winner. By far. Opinions to the contrary?
@Walter Wilkins I think the valve check schedule (16k miles on the AT means about 6 valve checks to get to 100k miles, vs 26k miles on the Super Tenere (and thats Yamaha being super conservative, 30k miles would be fine) that means under under 4 valve checks), on the Supertenere you'll spend about 20-30$ on drive shaft oil, on the Africa, you'll probably go through 4-5 chain/sprocket sets (at 250$ a pop)...
Rough estimates, for 100k miles, you'd burn around 8000liters (2113 US gallons) on both bikes. The regular vs premium gas here in Canada would mean a difference of about 1790$ more expensive on the ST. Just the 2 extra valve checks on the Honda are 2000$ right there, and at least another 1000$ in chains and sprockets. So all in all, in terms of maintenance, I still think the ST would be cheaper in the long run and for resale value it should be roughly the same. Time will tell as the oldest AT are 2016 and older SUper Tenere seem to be selling at roughly the same price.
@@Speedytrip Unless it’s often ridden in gritty stuff I think you may be overestimating chain/sprocket costs and, based on my BMW shaft drive problems, I’ve lost my enthusiasm for shafts. Also, depending on riding habits, valve adjustments can be postponed. I’m not a big fan of 21” wheels though, 19” is sufficient for my needs, more tire selection too. I have a line on both bikes so, this is all food for thought . . .
@@UncleWally3 Bmw are notorious for shaft drive failures (always have and probably always will). You can have a shaft drive fail on a Tenere, but its extremely rare. Im not loyal to any brand, Ive had bikes of most brands, but statistically speaking, Yamaha is the most reliable motorcycle brand, followed closely by honda and kawasaki if I remembef well. Bmw makes fantastic bikes but reliability is not their selling point. Equipment, comfort, electronics, luxury, yes. Again the AT id also a fantastic bike but for frequency and ease of maintenance they are now behind Ducati…which says a lot! My 1991 Honda nighthawk required less maintenance, it was much faster and easier and it had hydraulic valve lifters so 0 maintenance on that…
I did 2 valve checks and adjustment both times for a total of $550 by local mechanic. Never gonna buy a chain. Valve check interval short on AT. Besides a battery, plugs and air filter,. That is all the maintenance on my 79,000 mile tenere
I wish to bring up the ST back to Europe. its not in the offer anymore. used bikes are getting more expensive. 3-4 YO bikes are more expensive than new ones at day they were sold first
Id be surprised if Yamaha doesn’t have a gen 3 in the plans…
All motorcycle with ICE are done in Europe. Leave now while you can still find a motor on a boat to get out of that ridiculous place
Here in Japan Yamaha limits the cruise to 100kmh. Europes doesn’t, how’s North America?
I never tried setting the cruise above 130-140km/h, but I don't think there's a limit...is your top speed limited as well?
Honda is Honda.even Honda 25 years old model is Reliable of maintained . Honda is easy to keep with it's life partner 🙂
Ive owned bikes of just about every main brand (And Im not lotal to any brand) and Id say all the big 4 Japanese bikes are neck to neck. Statistically Yamaha is #1, but other big 3s are very close and my mind would be at peace with any of them. Ive seen a guy report putting 400000km on his Africa twin (and he wasnt done with it) so yeah well maintained they will last for ever. My 91 nighthawk 750 has 130000km and still runs like a champ :)
I had an African twin. It was tiring bike to ride. Took effort to lean over.
First time I hear that about the africa, what year did you have? Any bike with a 21” is a bit slower turning but it never felt like handling was bad for an adventure bike :) what can be tiring sometimes is turbulance from the windscreen for taller riders.
does the Tenere come with tube or tubeless tires?
All tubeless 👍👍
EXCELLENT VIDEO !!!
Thanks appreciated! :)
The two bikes are similar enough IMEO. The deal maker for me is The Yamaha ST has a stock center stand and it is a shaft drive. The Chain driven Honda AT only has a side stand stock. I have owned five Honda Motorcycles. I know Honda makes good Machines. The ST will be my first Yamaha. Im still working on buying new. I need more cash down. Dont we all ; )
Or you can find a fully equipped, barely used new one for a fraction of the price :)
Finally, someone else who understands that shim bucket valves are the work of the devil and there’s no reason for them to be present. Honda figured it out in the late 80s no less! Nighthawk 750 rev to 10,000 RPM and there was no valve float which means there is no excuse for not using hydraulic lifters.
100%, even harley on their new engine for the pan america (9500rpm with 150hp) uses hydraulic lifters (like on all their engines from my understanding). I can only think manufacturers still use shim bucket valves to make you spend at the dealer. In the 60s and 70s it was expected that most owners would do their own valves and frequency was like under 10000miles but it was far easier to do. On an Africa Twin or Super ten its a full days work for an experienced mechanic, alot of stuff needs to come off before you even get to the valves.
Great comparison over all but; 8:50 They're both Japanese but they don't feel premium... Did I hear that right?? I just makes me wonder; What does feel premium in your opinion ? An over-engineered BMW which is 6 to 8k more expensive and goes from one problem to the next on all their fancy electronics? Or a italian multistrada which is garanteed to let you down sooner or later in the most impossible spot?
All ride safe out there.
@Ray’s hobby farm. Premium and reliability is different. An Audi feels premium, a Toyota is reliable :) Triumph is a good exemple of bikes that both look/feels premium while still having good reliability.
listen the horn button is better where honda have it! U use more indicators than horn and simply is closer to thumb finger
All other manufacturers have it in the other order. Its like if they decided to put the rear brake on the left side…this should be standardized accross all brands.
@@Speedytrip but brakes and shifter are international standard . bottons arent! I prefer the indicator switch down and horn upper
Exactly, Im saying all basic controls (including horn and indicators) should be standard. And since honda is the exception they should adapt to all the other brands :)
I own a 2012 Super Tenere with nearly 100k miles. Best alteration: get the ECU reflashed to unleash the forbidden horses!
Seriously considering it :)
Ive seen some videos and it sounds great, but too loud for where I ride, and expensive for sound hehe Quite happy with my MIVV slipon.
Speedy, it’s only loud when heavy on the throttle. Then it sounds awesome!
Thanks heaps from a Australian
Stay safe
You’ve got a great country to ride! :) I was up Mt Buller a few years ago on an R1200GS. Also did the Great Ocean road. One week was definately not enough, such a large and beautiful country!
By any chance are you from Kitchener/ Waterloo region? This place looks familiar to me.
No its in QC :)
@@Speedytrip Appreciate your quick response. I currently ride a 2020 Tracer 900. Btw, I will be riding in QC in the next 2 weeks. That’s a well done video, am a huge fan of both these bikes. Keep up the good work.
Thanks appreciated Sandeep! :) How do you like that Tracer 900?
@@Speedytrip its been pretty good so far. Bought it last March(2021) and now it has 16,900Kms on the odo. Has plenty of torque, can ride at 3K rpm in 6th gear without getting an engine knock. After this trip I will be at around 21K kms.. The only down side is that it needs 91+ octane gas and has low ground clearance, the oil pan gets hit first even before the exhaust, ha ha
@@PSANDEE Yeah I wish they stopped making bikes that ran on Premium...even my Super Tenere runs on Premium, I put 48$ in the tank the other day...I remember back in the day my Speed Triple would cost me about 18$ to fill it to the top...
I had a 16 AT. Suspension sucked, bottoms out all the time if ride hard on the dirt and desperately needs an upgrade for your weight and riding style (200lbs). Traction control sucks and cuts off instead of modulating. Rear frame cracked, front instrument cluster frame cracked. Hard to work on and get to anything compared to Tenere. Engine is fantastic though. Now I own a 17 Tenere. No complaints, does everything well just a little heavier and that could limit you a little off-road depending on how far you push it. Either way, I never looked back. Tenere is a hard core bike. AT is for cruisers. Can’t go wrong either way, just set your expectations right. Oh, tubes vs tubeless. Tenere easy to plug on the side of the road if needed. Honda missed that one…too. My personal experience, your may vary
Yeah I've seen reports of bad welding, rust issues etc mostly on the older AT (and mostly on white frames), and on the 17,18,19 Adventure Sport version, they had problems with deposits from the tank clogging the fuel pump. But on my 2017 and 2019 AT Standard, both bikes have been absolute flawless...aside from like you said, how labor intensive these bikes are. It's such a pleasure working on my 91 nighthawk, you don't need to split the bike in half to get to the air filters lol I can't compare the traction control on the 2016 but on the 2017 I remember it being pretty good and on the 2019 it was probably the best I've ever had, when set on the minimum intervention level, I could power slide for 50-60 feet no problem, which is not something any other bike I've tried would let me do with any TC on (I would typically remove it, like I do on the ST when on dirt, cause it just doen't let you have any fun, it interveins to aggressively, even on the lowest setting).
I personally liked the suspensions on the Africa Twin, I jumped a few times and never felt like it was a problem, on road, the softness was quite welcome on our horrendous winter obliterated Canadian roads.
Now at 4000km on the ST, and still VERY happy with the bike! Thanks for watching! :)
Flash it ,change exoust ,air filter. After breaking in WOT in 2nd gear ,hold on :)).
I could already power wheelie the ST in 2nd gear, fully stock. I now have a MIVV slipon and will probably have it flashed next winter but mostly to smooth out throttle response on Sport mode.
Why are the Yamahas so much heavier?
Bigger engine, drive shaft, overall bigger bike and older design :)
I had a 2017 Africa twin and liked a lot about the bike but never got used to the 21 inch front wheel and long travel suspension on the road. The cornering never felt good to me. I sold the bike after only one year and got a vstrom 1000 with a 19 inch front wheel which felt much much better for cornering. Did you notice a big difference in cornering between the AT and S10?
I never really had problems with my 2017 and 2019 africa twin, but the Super Tenere is certainly more road biased and it handles way better than its weight should allow it to. Its also more stable than the africa in the twisties. As to which one handles best, I think it boils down to how you use the bike. The vstrom 1000 was not a bad choice either.
Now the new AT has 19 inch front and electronic suspension 👌
Theres still a manual suspension with 21” wheel I think.
Nice review as i try to decide between a '23 1200 ST or a '23 1250 GSA.
Id get a used low mileage 1200st, and use the rest of the money to travel. :) The 2023 is exactly the same as the 2014… not worth buying new. The 1250GS is also an amazing bike, but a BMW…
@@SpeedytripI think you're right!!!! I'd like to find out what year they started to put cruise control/quick shifter/heated grips on the 1200 and start there!!!!
I think all 2014 ES models had cruise control and heated grips. I dont think the quick shifter was ever standard…
*FRONT WHEEL diameter difference super tenere vs. honda AT? (twisty roads riding?) fuel consumption difference? thx!*
The 19” on Super Tenere does compensate for its extra weight compared to the 21” on Africa (on road). The Africa handles very nice but I was surprised how nimble the Super10 was considering its weight. Engine is new and weather has been around 0C, but I think in ideal conditions the Super10 could out pace the Africa on nice twisty roads. It’s nimble AND feels very planted, I think the ST has a slight advantage on twisty roads. Ive only put 150km on the Super Tenere, in cold weather and engine is still in break-in period (reving under 4k rpm) so I dont have good real world normal numbers, but I would get around 400km out of the 19 L on the Africa (until empty) and expect around that out of the 23L tank on the Super Tenere (even if at times computer was telling me I had 500km in range, I dont think thats realistic unless your going 50km/h on cruise control for hours). I’d expect someone conservative on the throttle could get 350-400km realistically, but Ill report back once Ive put more km on it. Thanks for watching! :)
I have a tenere. It’s heavy AF . But reliable
It is, but the only place I feel it is when I move it around in the garage. Once on the move it feels light and nimble (for a 600lbs bike) :)
Tenere, driveshaft for me is a big win...
And less frequent valve check, makes it a great touring beast :)
@Speedytrip yamaha in my eyes is the best when it comes to maintenance costs and durability.
@Marc-NZ Hard to argue with that. Hard to believe theres still modern motorcycles with 12-20000km valve checks..
Honda Africa twin or yamaha super tenere
Thats the whole point of the video 😁 it depends on what you are looking for, no bad bikes, only bad choices.
@@Speedytrip
Is Honda comfortable to travel with and have you tried the Honda 1200 Crosstourer?
Depending on your height and weight you might want risers and an aftermarket seat, and windscreen but yes its one of the most comfortable bikes Ive owned. 600km in a day, no problem. With that said, the Super Tenere is slightly better for touring. I haven’t tried the crosstourer, I dont remember seeing one on the road around here.
@@Speedytrip Try it and judge for yourself 😉
Hard to try one when theres none around, but if I get the opportunity id love to try it :)
Tu es de quel coin, ça ressemble à l'Estrie? Tu fais des bons vidéos en passant.
Merci, centre-du-quebec :)
Super 10 all the way!!
Tenere is a very pedestrian bike it does nothing great but everything good !
Its great at touring :)
Shout out to the UFO at 9:07
@Steve Davis Please don't talk about it to anyone. :)
POWAAAAAA!
Only one bike has a DCT option. DCT On my Africa Twin has saved my life a couple of times when some idiot has cut in front of me and I had to hit the anchors hard. It downshifted and got itself in the right gears while all I did was brake hard, steer, and pray for the best.
One time, in the bloody rain, this idiot pulled out of a parking lot right in front of me. I'd seen him and suspected he'd do that so I was ready when he actually did, but why did the ________ (insert your invective of choice) see me, wait, ... then go?!?!?!?
Another time, the travelling lanes on I75S (Dallas) were pretty much stopped. I was in the carpool lane which was moving freely and has plastic bollard separating it from the main highway. No one in front of me, I have my aux lights on (they're bright as fudge) and this nincomtwit drives over the bollards into the carpool lane. He had plenty of time to do it before me i wasn't directly behind anyone. He had plenty of time to do it after me, there was no one following me. Nope. Had to wait until I was almost on him before he moved. Luckily where he did it there is a space on the other side of the carpool lane that just opens up at that point. I hit the brakes hard and swerved to the side. My front wheel was level with his rear wheel. If I hadn't swerved to the side i'd have had to go into the back of his Ford Escape or into the traffic that wasn't moving.
I liked that Africa Twin so much that when my brother crashed it I got another one. And when some cell phone using numpty wrecked that one, I bought a third one. All DCTs. I've got over 80k miles on them, mostly on road, mostly commuting and touring.
Havent tried the DCT version yet, but very intrigued by it. I know most journalists thought theyd hate it and ended up loving it :)
@@Speedytrip It's not for everybody., and it's definitely an adjustment, but it's definitely a damn fine piece of engineering.
AT definetely
There’s few bad bikes nowadays, only good or bad choices and it would be difficult for someone to be dissapointed with the AT! :)
That’s mi nkm 6:04
Super Tenere all day. Tenere will still be running long after the Honda is in the junk pile.
Ive seen an Africa twin with 400000km on it :) But yes Honda seemed to have some quality control issues on some bikes, mine was flawless.
Italian bike sheiter dump talk, stick to what you have in front of you and talk about that. Comparing a barely run in Africa Twin with a shop-dust carrying new SuperTenere that barely saw the street while being an older model. The biggest comparison is that it looks angry vs. friendly, while other comparisons don’t count as there’s no real experience behind for such a long-term type comparative review.
Title of the video: "My 2019 Honda Africa Twin after 30000km vs new 2021 Yamaha Super Ténéré". If the title ain't what you're looking for, you can watch another video, why so much aggression? I cover most aspects including maintenance schedules, I even put time stamps in the description so you can go straight to what you're looking for...I got over 1k likes and over 200 positive comments, some might find it useful?
Ive ridden over 150 different bikes over 400000km in many countries, I know them pretty well. It takes many hours putting a video like this together and you paid 0$ to watch it…By leaving a comment (good or bad) on a video, you are actually helping the youtube algorithms, so I'd recommend only leaving positive comments on the videos you do like, and no comment on those you don't unless it's constructive feedback). Hoping the rest of your day is better. Cheers.
Súper tenere
You completely contradict yourself at 0:48 and 1:28. You say there were one or two valves out of spec and were adjusted. Then you say that it has hydraulic valve lifters, so it doesn't need adjustment... ever. So, which one is it? Or are you believing everything the dealership mechanic is telling you and letting them take your money? And 150km isn't anywhere close to having a valid opinion of any machine for a comparison. You haven't even reached the first service yet, let alone 1500km to actually start developing an opinion and long term comparison.
I'm talking about my nighthawk 750 at 1:28 (you can even hear me say nighthawk on your time stamp 1:28 ;) ). I was illustrating how over the years, Honda just made their machines more labor intensive.
I think the thumbnail and title was quite explicit of what the video was about. Me comparing my previous bike to my new bike. It wasn't a Super Tenere long term review. I've ridden over 300,000km on probably 150 bikes. No I can't give a long term review after 150km, but I can have a pretty good idea of what I like and don't like about a bike in the first 10km, so basically this was my first impressions on the ST, compared to my 30000km on the AT.
I go to the same independant mechanic I've been going to for most of my bikes for like 15 years, if valves don't need adjusting, he doesn't adjust them (and it's happened that he checked valves and they were all in spec). But yes it's something to be careful with, if you don't trust your mechanic/dealer learn to do it yourself or bring it somewhere else where you know they are trustworthy.
Sorry you didn't enjoy my video. Thankfully there's plenty more on YT for you to watch :)