Greetings Backcountry Pilgrim_ Thanks for the awesome review of our TerraLite- we definitely appreciate it. A good night's sleep is crucial when you are in the backcountry, whether is a few nights out on a local trail or a few weeks in the Himalayas, and at WM it's our mission to deliver that comfort for all types of sleepers. Happy Trails, Western Mountaineering
Oh wow, y'all are the GOATs! I've been experimenting with a bag with 0 fill on the bottom, just a sheet of MEMBRANE 7 ripstop nylon. Have you all tested anything like that in your labs? You get the ultralight benefits of a quilt, and with enough bottom fabric, the freedom of movement, but without spilling all your warm air every time you twitch.
Same here man. Try to jam my arm up into the hood under my pillow, cry a little more, figure out where I have down shift freezing my ass, sleep just that little bit more purely out of exhaustion, then get up and start my day. But hey that’s what we go for right.
You're the Man! I can't understand why its so hard to find sleeping options and reviews from all the know-it-alls, for a stomach sleeper. My back is killing me just thinking about an inflatable mattress on the ground. I don't know if this is going to work, but it's a good start in the right direction.
Going on a year with the Nemo Disco 15 and I’m a side/stomach sleeper. The bag is awesome. Plenty of room for me to stretch out inside of without the extra weight and size. I also will unzip the bag and use it as a quilt when it’s above 40°, it honestly doubles as a quilt with a foot-box. I paired mine with the Big Agnes Insulated 25”x72” pad with the larger side baffles. As a 6’ 190lb side sleeper I couldn’t ask for a better combo.
Side sleeper and toss and turner here. I used an exped wallcreeper recently and was shocked how good it was for lots of movement, turning, etc. The arm sleeves are very useful too. Overall i was super impressed, and now hopeful i can get better sleep in the backcountry.
You can also use a tapered bag, more room than a mummy bag but smaller than a rectangular bag. Don't seem to be as common but you can find them. I have one (with a hood) that's comfort rated down to 1c , and it fits inside a rectangular bag without crushing the down .
Great info thanks! So interesting because it looks like we’ve been on parallel journeys. In addition to various WM bags, I also have both the Rift and the Cloud 20, in addition to EE quilts like the one shown at the beginning of your video. This year I’ve discovered ZenBivy and I’m getting great sleeps in the backcountry with my LightBed using an UL sheet. It absolutely cuts the drafts. I top it with my EE Revelation quilt (950 30 degree wide) in cold weather when I want the versatility of having a wearable quilt in camp. If I don’t need that, I’ll just bring my Rift. Have you tried ZB yet? Tell us your thoughts!
Zenbivy is the GOAT sleep system. I’ve used the 10 degree bag down in the teens and zero issues with draft. Their sleeping pad with a 5 R- value is highly underrated in the backpacking community also. I average 15 miles a day across multiple days and a good night’s sleep is essential to continued peak performance . I’m exclusively a side and stomach sleeper and I’ve used/tested many other systems. None compare, not even close
@@BackcountryPilgrim Problem with the Zenbivy is that it’s a glorified quilt system at 2lbs for the 25* and like most quilts, the temp ratings are ambitious. 2lbs pretty much opens the door to dozens of sleeping bag options. At that point, the whole purpose of a quilt goes out the window and you are just using a stripped down bag for no reason because it all weighs the same.
@@BackcountryPilgrim While I think it is a smart design for a quilt, it is backward engineering. You are essentially taking what began as a stripped down sleeping bag to save weight and adding in features (and weight) to make it less like a stripped down sleeping bag 🙃
Zenbivy does not make sleeping bags - but agreed on your point! (It was actually commenters on this video that convinced me to try Zenbivy and I am a full convert!) :)
Here’s a tip for side sleepers I discovered by happy accident. I was bushwhacking near dark. I found a narrow flat spot but it had a large rock partially buried right in the middle. So I dug out the rock which left a hole. I was so tired I just laid out my pad over the hole and crashed. Next day I realized I had no hip discomfort. The hole acted as a hip hammock. I dig a small hole the size of a basketball every time now. Zero hip pain even with foam pads😊
I’m a back, side, one leg or the other bent at the knee on my stomach virtually all over the place. I tried a quilt last season and it was so drafty as to be useless, I can’t stand mummy style so I’m on the hunt for a sleep system that will keep me warm and comfortable. Thanks for sharing.
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when too warm or just the feet.
Dude! You're my SleepSystem SoulMate! I had pretty much decided to buy a quilt, even knowing the weaknesses you mentioned. But you have opened my eyes to those last options of wider bags and modified bags, which will serve me perfectly. I don't want to go thru buying several bags I won't like, so I will go straight to one of those. I see the value in your channel, and have subscribed. Thanks again, and see you on the trail!
Everyone say these are roomy sleeping bags. I am 182cm and 100kg. Not particularly fat but quite sizeable around my shoulders, upperbody. I see other sleeping bags that has about an extra 10cm girth around the shoulders compared to these ones. Can anyone give me some advice on some other sleeping bags that is actually big! But at the same time possible for hiking around for a few days without having abnormal size or "camping with the car" kind of size? That would be much appreciated. For example Marmot trestles eco 20 and 30 x wide should be wider than all of these bags over the shoulders. I just struggle to understand and to find the specs for a bag that I could actually switch sides in without a complete struggle. Bought and returned one bag that was XL. When I zipped that one I was thinking this adventure that I plan for me and my wife is not going to happen after all. We have all gear except a sizeable bag for me...🥾⛺🎒
I'm not sure how universal this is but it might convert a reaosnably priced bag into something that would work better for you: Big Agnes Wedgie Sleeping Bag Expander - amzn.to/45M59lS
OMG! Thank you so much! Cloud 20 solves (almost) all of my problems - I can sleep on the side or stomach, I'm not getting klaustrofobia attacks, I can pop out my RLS legs to cool down and stop twitching, and I think it's wide enough for my dog to sleep in a spoon next to me. :D BUT, I do have a problem with my hip hurting the next day. I always thought it's from hiking and pack weight, but recently I slept on my insulation pad indoors and the next day my hip hurted. Any advice on what kind of insulation pad is best for preventing hips hurting?
First, I am so glad the Cloud 20 worked for you! Second, the best pads for support seem to be ones with a "quilted" or "dot" pattern rather than tubes. These work more like a home mattress and don't squish the air out from under pressure points as much. I'd look at the Nemo Tensor or the new UL pads from Zenbivy. Hope that helps!
I went with that WM Terralite. I've now had the chance to use it a few times and absolutely love it. Top quality product. It has more room than needed for a wide pad and even with wide shoulders I can easily slip my arms to my sides and pull em back out without ever feeling trapped. The craftsmanship put into these bags leaves no question why they are so highly regarded.
Tried the Nemo and hate it not enough room in the shoulder area, I’m back to my old school Coleman square bag. Plenty of room and much warmer than the Nemo.
Great video. I have the Disco 15 and love it. It’s on the heavier side for light sleeping bags. Was looking into the Terralite as an alternative to shave off a pound as well as still have room to move around. Just a little concerned about warmth. Would you say the Terralite sleeps warmer than the Disco even though it’s a 25 degree? My Disco starts getting a little cold in the mid 30’s. I also believe you can order a Terralite overstuffed. Thanks.
I am a turner. If I put my backpack on my legs, it pins me and stops me from turning. I find the smaller the bag the less I move around. My last sleeping bag was so big I was stuffing it under me because the was too much air cooling me down. There should be large and slim bags;like there is regular and extra wide sleeping pads
wow paul i have just picked up a 1000 fill goose down bag paul 56 pounds and i thought no its gunna be crap and when it come i was well pleased its called a kamperbox
Other than the hood being removed quilts look exactly like an unzipped sleeping bag to me so where is the material savings for a quilt other than the hood?
Well zippers weigh a lot as well as the heavier material they attach to and those are gone. Also the quilt does not wrap all the way around the body so there is less of that material as well as the fill that would have been inside that additional material. All things being equal they definitely weigh less. Whether that weight savings is worth the hassle is another question. ;)
Your video gave me a great idea: I will sew a sleeping pad sleeve under my sleeping bag to be able to toss and turn, with the bag staying in place upright. Cheap and effective!
Maybe you should consider just sewing some small loops on the sides of your sleeping bag and them make a separate pad sleeve that has some plastic hooks. Then you can just attach the sleeve to the bag with the hooks. I think this is less destructive in case the sleeve idea doesnt work, and you can also use the same sleeve with all your different sleeping bags just by adding the loops to all your bags.
I love my Sierra designs quilt. One question, I had read some bags might have thinner insulation on the back side. Their ratings are not accurate if the bag is not in the intended orientation. Is that correct?
Agreed. There's a video "Sleeping Bag vs Quilt--Infrared Proof" on "Adventures In Reach"'s channel that clearly proves how many BTU's a quilt loses with movement and those BTU's have to be ginned back up by body heat. I think quilts are great for moderate conditions, but once you have to include a lot of add-ons to a quilt to get it to perform like a basic sleeping bag (baffles, strapping, etc...), you might as well get a sleeping bag from the start and besides, nobody is going to benefit from the quilt's "open" configuration in extreme cold. As a matter of fact, for the price of a competent cold weather quilt (which would probably be too hot for moderate conditions), one could get a good quality 3 season quilt AND a good quality extreme cold sleeping bag and ALWAYS sleep right.
On Amazon there exists a complaint about the Cloud 20 loosing its loft after it is washed. “after washing and drying the sleeping bag per the instructions on the tag, half of the baffles have completely lost all the down fill”. Sierra suggested tumbling with no heat with a tennis ball, but the customer indicated that did not work. Anybody else have experience regarding this issue one way or the other?
Hmmmm that's too bad. Its not such a unique design that it should have any particular problems that I can see. I'd suspect the initial wash was done improperly but I can't really say of course. Down isn't the easiest to handle. :/
@@BackcountryPilgrim I agree. I suspect the washing and drying recommendations were not followed. My plan is to purchase this product. It looks to me that the baffles are further apart, could that cause more clumping of the down? Even so I would think the tennis ball would fluff it back up.
The Nemo Riff is not really a more premium product than the Disco. It's more of an ultralight version. It provides the exact same amount of insulation altogether but in a slightly thinner format thus technically increasing the gsm. So the Riff is higher gsm but it is NOT warmer from the weight used. The point of the riff is that it packs down a bit smaller than the Disco but that sacrifices some of the spaciousness and comfortability that comes with the Disco. To some, the thinner profile of the Riff might be a bit warmer though because there is less air around the sleeper's body due to the thinner profile making it slightly warmer like a mummy bag would. But, again, that sacrifices spaciousness and movement so it is up to each person what they want. I'm really skinny but I'm very happy with the size of my Nemo Disco, but I also have yet to see how warm it is on the trail.
The Riff uses 800 fill down, that's the biggest difference, it is also slightly less wide. Together they make for a smaller volume and much lower weight for the same temp rating. support.nemoequipment.com/hc/en-us/articles/23292383147924-This-versus-That-Disco-versus-Riff
@@BackcountryPilgrim It's definitely not a "much lower" weight. The difference is roughly 100g/4oz. The difference is so small that you wouldn't actually be able to tell the difference when carrying it or even holding it in your hand.
I sleep like you do, Pilgrim. I too use a Nemo Disco, but though rated to 15, for me it’s good to about 40F. For colder weather, I use a Feathered Friends bag rated to 20F (comfort level). This past summer, I got a Zenbivy Light bed rated to 25, which I’ll use at 35-40F. It’s extremely comfortable…better than the Disco. Definitely recommend you try it.
I’m a big fan of my Big Agnus Anvil Spur. It attaches to the sleeping pad and is essentially a closed quilt, as there is no insulation on the back of the bag, additionally the zip runs all the way to my feet… but about that zipper, it can be a pain the butt. I’ve used in hunting in Alaska (Spring - May) and hiking the mountains of Utah (Fall - Sept/Oct) worked great.
I agree. I think the best of all worlds is a bag like the anvil horn. no down underneath but no cold spots when tossing and turning. another big feature being that when you do toss and turn (as most of us do) the warm air trapped in the down is far less displaced, making it very efficient.
Two problems with sleeping on my side in my current bag: hood and zipper. I have to sleep on my left side which means I’m sleeping on the zipper. Or I can roll over inside the bag and my head winds up in the hood. Really interested in your solutions.
The zipper is beneath you? I think I am missing something. As to the hood - you might want to check out the Big Agnes Sidewinder - its hood is built in sideways!
@@BackcountryPilgrim I’ll check out the sidewinder, thanks! Because the zipper is on the left side, and I have to sleep on my left side because of heartburn issues, my head is sideways in the hood, or I roll the whole bag to the left a quarter turn so the hood is correct for my head but I am sleeping on the zipper. So the sidewinder might work. I think i will also look into a quilt that’s a bit wider than standard so I can wrap it all around me, and use it with a down hood.
You should a look at the Big Agnes Anvil Horn bags. Roomier than a mummy bag and with the sleeping pad sleeve. As a side/stomach/back sleeper I had a better night of sleep in this bag than I have even had in a mummy bag (or in the Nemo Forte, which I just replaced even though I liked it)
Hey, i can get the nemo disco for a great discount only its the long version and im only 181 cm or 5,9 inch. Will this be a big problem whit keeping me warm?
Technically it is harder for your body to warm up more space, but I got the long myself (5' 10") because I keep my clothes in the bag with me and I just put them down in the footbox at night. Works great!
Farmers usually harvest goose down after the birds are slaughtered for meat, and most geese are killed about 15 weeks after hatching. But farmers may also pluck the feathers when geese are still alive, a painful process akin to someone ripping out human hair, animal welfare and advocacy groups say.18 Dec 2020
The sleeping pad sleeve is the gamechanger for those of us that toss and turn and fidget all night. Big Agnes, Sierra Design are the only two I know that have one. The Big Agnes Echo park / Diamond parks are humungous. I'm having a serious look at the Sierra Backcountry 650, it looks ideal for fidgets like me, though the Big Agnes bags all have a cool pillow barn that's really useful.
My idea- sleep under a camping blanket or unzipped square sleeping bag that does the same job. Obviously lie on your sleeping pad too. Now put all of that inside a roomy and breathable bivvy bag. The bivvy bag is draught proof and the pad will keep it in place as you toss and turn. Simple and cheap and lightweight if you choose the components carefully. My UK setup is an Alpkit hunka XL bivvy bag, a Snugpak jungle blanket XL (folded for doubled thickness) and a Dutch army surplus self inflating mat. I mocked it up with tiny plastic crocodile clips to keep everything in place but I'll replace them with poppers now I've proven the concept.
So I finally got around to finishing this... it's awesome!!! If you're going to take a bivvy bag anyway just add some snap fasteners to the grosgrain around the collar and clip on your camping blanket of choice. It acts like a giant sleeping bag if you've got a wide one. So much room!
You missed the most important feature of the wm terralite; it has 2 zippers. The 2nd one goes around toe box allowing you to open only the foot if you have 🔥 feet.
Western mountaineering Alpinlite Works like a quilt just unzip it and leave the down up You can do this with any bag. Not sure how anyone couldn’t figure that out as quilts don’t work for everything but I have never worried about using a bag for everything
Buy a quilt that actually fits properly. If you have a sleeping bag that is 63 at the shoulders, then buy a quilt that is 65 wide. Too many big guys sleeping in quilts that are sized wrong for them.
@@BackcountryPilgrim I have three bags all 20 years old and I have no plan to replace them with anything other than Big Agnes Sleep systems. the only exception is a summer quilt of some sort maybe.
The Big Agnes Anvil Horn 15 is a great bag for side sleepers. It has a sleeve for you pad and also a pillow barn for your pillow. It is a great mid range priced bag.
@@BackcountryPilgrim the problem is just the 810€ that cost. Reasonable for what they offer probably, but it’s almost 3 times a normal quilt. :) with an infinite budget I would buy it probably and I’d also love the couple one, but atm it’s too expensive.
Going in first backpacking trip soon. I bought the disco before seeing your vid-exactly because I thought it would help this. I tried it at rei and it is so much more roomy than a mummy bag.
I don't know. To me any sleeping bag that is priced over 100 USD is considered overkill in my opinion. The higher the price is beyond that mark, the more true my statement becomes. 350-400+ dollars for a sleeping bag is outrageous.
Well value is a different issue than quality and the point becomes moot if there isn't any competition that can match the quality. But there is a law of diminishing returns that you need to watch out for!
I've used the Klymit KSB20 XL down bag for 5 years now. At 82in x 40in (girth/circumference of 78in) with a 650-down fill and only 3lbs, this bag is roomy and warm. This is by far the widest single person mummy style bag I could find while also being a bit stretchy. As a bigger camper, this is a necessity. The bag has a dual direction zipper so you can open the bottom to stick a leg out while still comfortably wrapped at the torso. It also has toggles to sinch up the bag length to reduce the dead space in the foot box for shorter sleepers. By far the best bag I've used ever. 😀👍
Thank you for this comparisons and the images of you using these. I"m looking for lightweight but also know that I sleep cold, and I sleep on my side. And I'm quite short. I bought a quilt thinking it was the answer but trying it out at home (no pad, on my bed) I realized it's absolutely not for me. It takes forever to get warm and every time I turn I get long lasting cold spots. So I was at a loss. Now I see other options for me (and realize that a zippered bag is essential for me to stay warm). Subscribed.
Wow, I sleep exactly the same way; on stomach, with one leg out. Never could use a mummy bag. I learned, decades ago, to use a rectangular bag as a quilt. Sheet or liner over the pad. It's pretty much like sleeping at home. I don't use the zipper at all unless it is very cold out. The spoon shape and, especially, the roomy Terralite, look interesting. But what is the advantage over a rectangular bag that is certain to be more versatile and comfortable? A few ounces of weight, maybe. The pocket for the pad seems so obvious. How come it is so rare? Although I have always used sleeping bags out of habit, I would probably be just as happy with a lightweight blanket and sheet. Thanks for discussing this; it's the first time I've seen anyone mention the topic. I suspected that I couldn't be the only person who sleeps that way, but I was beginning to wonder. :)
I think it's more about thermal efficiency. A blanket would have to be pretty large to seal up the interior air and then you've got material and insulation you're carrying but not using. I think once temps got to the lower end of a blanket's / bag's ability it would make a difference. I've done it too though!
@@BackcountryPilgrim Sure, efficient is good if you can sleep in it. But a bag isn't MUCH more efficient than a blanket. An unzipped rectangular bag is about the size of a twin blanket, which you can wrap around you. You know... like a quilt. You don't get drafts at home. Why? Because that extra size of a blanket mostly prevents them. (Well, plus your bedroom probably isn't 20F). Perhaps a bigger difference is fabric weight. You might get a light bag with 10d or 15d shell, but even a light blanket is more likely to have 70d-ish shell. For perspective, the weight difference between an expensive down bag and a $30 comforter is two pounds or less. For the budget-conscious, that might be just fine.
Man, I needed to hear this. Was completely convinced that quilts would work for me as a side sleeper, then remembered the last time I went camping with a fully unfolded sleeping bag to fit 2 people. Forgot how many times I would roll over and completely uncover my back in the process
I use a Mountain Equipment Helium 800GT, the GT being the extra wide variant, with a Helium expansion baffle that adds 5 more centimeters. Super warm and wide enough to roll around in.
I love my mummy sleeping bag, the MEC -7°C aquilina, but struggle to find a comfortable side position, so this year I got the Big Agnes Wedgie, which adds inches to my bag without me having buy a whole new bag!! I had to modify the zipper (right vs left zip) for it to work but I’m so happy with it
I wish there was a cross between the disco and the Sierra Design Backcountry. I like the spoon shape and larger hood of the disco and the zipperles quilt and pad sleeve while saving space with no insulation on the back top half.
I'm pure stomach sleeper, on a bed or on the ground. The only way I can sleep on my back (or side) is on a hammock, lights out, I wake up in the morning pretty much on the same position that I slept.
I have the Nemo Sonic 0° sleeping bag. It is not spoon shaped like the Riff or the Disco, but it still has a more spacious design than most 0° mummy bags and the Sonic still has thermogills like it's little brothers.
Do you feel the hood is restrictive though on the Sonic? The reason I ask is because I really like the Nemo bags with the extra room and the venting gills. However I am worried the hood seems too narrow. I need a 0° bag. Too bad they don't make the rift in a 0° option. The perfect bag for me would be the Rift in 0° and have a pad sleeve like the Big Agnes bags. Then you would have the perfect set up.
@@chrismeyer2963 I'm sorry, but even though I own the Sonic, I usually sleep with my head out of the sleeping bag with the hood under my head. The few times I have used the hood, I didn't find it restrictive though.
I’ve just started trail running / ultramarathoning instead of sleeping, just keep going and don’t sleep for a day or two. I haven’t worked out anything past that. I’ve yet to get a good night sleep on the trails so might as well keep moving. I hope one day to defeat the problem and get to sleep, until then I’ll keep it under 100 miles or so.
Nice! Thanks for this video. Although I found it a bit late (16 months), it's got great information for me. I've been using a Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15* for more than fifteen years and it's showing it's age. Big Agnes completely redesigned the Lost Ranger and it's nothing like my old bag and I'm not too keen on the new version. The Sierra Designs bag is very similar to the design of my old Lost Ranger that I like. And at just under two pounds, it weighs less than my old Lost Ranger.
What a informative nice video! Keep up the good work!!!! Also look at the sequoia from western mountaineering. I have the gws version and it is a blast
I wanna say the quilt makers are just making excuses now to not make sleeping bags and then go on with weird things. But there are obviously some nifty solutions out there.
If like me you need it for motorbike camping so pack size is not so much an issue the 2 i would consider are eurohike adventurer 300XL on sale for about £40 and the beast sleeping pod which is huge again for about £40 im probably going with the beast as its just so much bigger than the eurohike 300xl but pack size will suck
I have the Terralite and the Cloud 35. And of course I'm a side and stomach sleeper and those are the two top-notch. For any hot/summer just go ahead and throw on your long johns and almost any random down blanket. Don't go for the high dollar down blankets, not worth it for hot weather.
My solution was to sleep in a hammock designed to provide a nice flat lay, I can change positions all night with little to no issues….15 years later, it’s still my solution 👍
The idea that there is wasted insulation underneath a person sleeping would only really be true if we were built flat on the bottom. Don’t know about anyone else but I’m definitely not. I suppose the pad should come up to fill in the spaces but that’s not quite accurate for me either.
It's only wasted in places where it is crushed, but that's a lot of it - and because heat rises the bottom layer is also not as helpful. Still better than the nothing a quilt offers though! :)
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when it's too warm or just the feet. The way I move, I can't see how a quilt would keep me warm. You will also need to buy a liner to have over the mat, to sleep on. I'm able to sleep 10 or 11 hours per night with no trouble at all.
I have the Nemo Disco and like the extra roominess of it, rei had it on sale for $168 so it was a no brainer to trade in my Nemo forte I had just bought few weeks earlier for the $50 refund and around 1lb weight savings, they currently have it for $223 low stock and discontinued
I owed the Disco it was warm but it bled feathers like a pig and the zipper broke after 30 times . Returned 2 others as well mountain hardwear and i cant even remember the 3rd . I finally went to a quilt and i totally agree that below 30 i got cold, im So damn frustrated, do i get the Enlightened Equipment zero or another bag? Im leaning towards a zero bag, Western Mountaineering or something that has a no question ask return policy, im a bit warn out with the whole process.
Man, that's rough. Western Mountaineering is the only bag company I've never heard anything but praise for, that may be the way to go. "Buy once, cry once." ;)
Everyone has a preference until the temperature plummets .... then they go for sleeping bags. I went on a supposedly "mild" camp in Scotland, but then got rained on, sleeted on, snowed on, and the temp dropped far below predicted levels to -2c. Meanwhile I am there with my autumn sleeping system, damp clothes, and cold AF. Forget "quilts" and having a bit of your back exposed. I could feel where my hip was pressing into my mat because there was heat exchange. I could literally visualise my poorly closing seal on my outer because it was a blue line of cold down my body. When everything goes wrong, the one thing you can rely on to keep you alive is stripping off your wet clothes and crawling into your sleep system. Dont cheap out on that for the sake of losing a few grams of weight. I would personally train harder, so I got stronger, so I could carry more weight, JUST to carry a decent sleep system. When everything goes wrong your bag is going to be the only thing keeping you alive. ........quilts .... seriously?
I have a design sleeping bag also with the hole in the bottom. I'm a stomach sleeper who loves to stretch out and move in my sleep, and my feet have somehow figured out how to sneak themselves out through the foothole whilst I'm asleep. Definitely given me a wake-up trying to figure out why my feet are feeling cold haha
I've been down to freezing but I am not sure how far below. There's a lot to warmth in addition to the bag like base layers, body type, and an insulated pad. If you already have warm gear maybe you need more of a dad bod haha! ;)
You know, I love the Cloud 20. On a group trip this summer, it was the most requested bag. But the aesthetics are just so awful! Sierra Designs, please change the look of this bag. I don’t want to look like a Boy Scout. I’m a sophisticated adult who spends a lot of time sleeping outdoors and I want my bags to look as good as EE, WM and ZenBivy. And while you’re at it, please upgrade the down and lighten the Cloud 20. Thanks!
This was a very informative video. I am a pretty active sleeper. I am older so going light is very important for me. I changed to a 20 degree Zpack quilt a few years ago and it works well. If it’s going to get near the 20 degree mark I pack my Montbell down pants and down sleeping booties. If it’s going to be very cold I leave the quilt and bring my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag. Quilts are great but sleeping bags are the way to go if it’s really cold. I like that WM bag you covered. I do a lot of long distance backpacking so I generally just pack the quilt and hope for the best. I am generally fine.
I got the Nemo Disco 15 degree last year. Absolute game changer (for the better)! The hourglass shape is fantastic for multiple sleeping positions, and many great innovations since the last time I bought bags: the gills, the neck curtain, and the SNOWPLOW ZIPPER PULL, the thing rocks! I’m still keeping my eyes open for the perfect pillow, but so far a Costco box wine bladder with a piece of egg foam around it in a cotton tshirt pillowcase is working well.
Greetings Backcountry Pilgrim_
Thanks for the awesome review of our TerraLite- we definitely appreciate it. A good night's sleep is crucial when you are in the backcountry, whether is a few nights out on a local trail or a few weeks in the Himalayas, and at WM it's our mission to deliver that comfort for all types of sleepers.
Happy Trails,
Western Mountaineering
I'm honored, thanks for the comment!
Oh wow, y'all are the GOATs! I've been experimenting with a bag with 0 fill on the bottom, just a sheet of MEMBRANE 7 ripstop nylon. Have you all tested anything like that in your labs? You get the ultralight benefits of a quilt, and with enough bottom fabric, the freedom of movement, but without spilling all your warm air every time you twitch.
Heres what I do as a side sleeper: Roll around all night, cry some, take a leak, roll around some more, then get up and start my day.
Not false. LOL!
Same here man. Try to jam my arm up into the hood under my pillow, cry a little more, figure out where I have down shift freezing my ass, sleep just that little bit more purely out of exhaustion, then get up and start my day. But hey that’s what we go for right.
Sleeping pills work for me 😂
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😶😑😐😬😁😃😄😆😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
You're the Man! I can't understand why its so hard to find sleeping options and reviews from all the know-it-alls, for a stomach sleeper. My back is killing me just thinking about an inflatable mattress on the ground. I don't know if this is going to work, but it's a good start in the right direction.
Glad it helped! Sometimes people don't think niche gear is worth reviewing but as I get older this kind of stuff matters more and more. ;)
Going on a year with the Nemo Disco 15 and I’m a side/stomach sleeper. The bag is awesome. Plenty of room for me to stretch out inside of without the extra weight and size. I also will unzip the bag and use it as a quilt when it’s above 40°, it honestly doubles as a quilt with a foot-box. I paired mine with the Big Agnes Insulated 25”x72” pad with the larger side baffles. As a 6’ 190lb side sleeper I couldn’t ask for a better combo.
Sounds perfect! Yeah I love my Nemo sleep system.
How does it hold up in the cold? I have the Nemo Forte 35 and have been freezing in the mid 40s
I've been below freezing (not sure how much) and felt great!
Side sleeper and toss and turner here. I used an exped wallcreeper recently and was shocked how good it was for lots of movement, turning, etc. The arm sleeves are very useful too. Overall i was super impressed, and now hopeful i can get better sleep in the backcountry.
Great! I'll check it out. :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim exped dreamwalker is the newer iteration.
Ah, that helps thank you!
You can also use a tapered bag, more room than a mummy bag but smaller than a rectangular bag. Don't seem to be as common but you can find them. I have one (with a hood) that's comfort rated down to 1c , and it fits inside a rectangular bag without crushing the down .
Yeah there are definitely more options now than ever!
Great info thanks! So interesting because it looks like we’ve been on parallel journeys. In addition to various WM bags, I also have both the Rift and the Cloud 20, in addition to EE quilts like the one shown at the beginning of your video. This year I’ve discovered ZenBivy and I’m getting great sleeps in the backcountry with my LightBed using an UL sheet. It absolutely cuts the drafts. I top it with my EE Revelation quilt (950 30 degree wide) in cold weather when I want the versatility of having a wearable quilt in camp. If I don’t need that, I’ll just bring my Rift.
Have you tried ZB yet? Tell us your thoughts!
Yep the parallel continues - I've pretty much converted to Zenbivy and have made two review videos on them! :)
I have Mont-Bell Down Hugger 800 #1 for those stretchy requirements (side sleeper with leg kick) and find it OK for most positions.
Great! A good nights sleep is worth it.
Get a Wiggys square foot bag. You will have all the room you want and never be cold at night again.
I'll check it out!
Zenbivy is the GOAT sleep system. I’ve used the 10 degree bag down in the teens and zero issues with draft. Their sleeping pad with a 5 R- value is highly underrated in the backpacking community also. I average 15 miles a day across multiple days and a good night’s sleep is essential to continued peak performance . I’m exclusively a side and stomach sleeper and I’ve used/tested many other systems. None compare, not even close
So it's good then? :) That's an amazing testimony. Next time a sleep system is on the review list that's probably the one I'll try! Thanks!
@@BackcountryPilgrim Problem with the Zenbivy is that it’s a glorified quilt system at 2lbs for the 25* and like most quilts, the temp ratings are ambitious.
2lbs pretty much opens the door to dozens of sleeping bag options. At that point, the whole purpose of a quilt goes out the window and you are just using a stripped down bag for no reason because it all weighs the same.
@@BackcountryPilgrim While I think it is a smart design for a quilt, it is backward engineering. You are essentially taking what began as a stripped down sleeping bag to save weight and adding in features (and weight) to make it less like a stripped down sleeping bag 🙃
Lol! I may steal that line if I ever review one. :)
@wolfpac Do you own one or have you ever slept in one before ?
You do good reviews with detail. Watched some of your ones on back packs, Have you used the Gregory Focal pack at all?
No I haven't. Gregory makes great stuff they seem underrated as a company to me.
Very helpful video!
Glad to hear it!
ZENBIVY. enough said
Zenbivy does not make sleeping bags - but agreed on your point! (It was actually commenters on this video that convinced me to try Zenbivy and I am a full convert!) :)
I could have used this at training last month! Even a Klingon would not like the mattresses there.
Lol! You like it, you love it, you want more of it!
that extra 5 inches
It matters! :)
Here’s a tip for side sleepers I discovered by happy accident. I was bushwhacking near dark. I found a narrow flat spot but it had a large rock partially buried right in the middle. So I dug out the rock which left a hole. I was so tired I just laid out my pad over the hole and crashed. Next day I realized I had no hip discomfort. The hole acted as a hip hammock. I dig a small hole the size of a basketball every time now. Zero hip pain even with foam pads😊
Interesting hack!
Oh I gotta try this! Thank you for the tips!
Oh wow! Thank you!
Thank you for this! Almost nobody covers these types of sleepers...
Happy to do so!
Only psychopaths and sociopaths sleep on their back with their hands at their sides. Oh, and vampires.
Hey that is a very insensitive and completely accurate thing to say. Hahahahahahaha!
@@sqd8r lol.
I’m a back, side, one leg or the other bent at the knee on my stomach virtually all over the place. I tried a quilt last season and it was so drafty as to be useless, I can’t stand mummy style so I’m on the hunt for a sleep system that will keep me warm and comfortable. Thanks for sharing.
In a few weeks I should have a video out on the Zenbivy system. It's magic haha!
You might want to check this out!
ruclips.net/video/H9HIlj_ZH5Q/видео.html
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when too warm or just the feet.
I cannot fathom how anyone gets a good night's sleep in a mummy bag. They are just awful. Do you have any thoughts on the REI HunkerDown 20?
Some people can just crash on their backs and sleep all night! I haven't seen that bag, might be worth a look!
Dude! You're my SleepSystem SoulMate! I had pretty much decided to buy a quilt, even knowing the weaknesses you mentioned. But you have opened my eyes to those last options of wider bags and modified bags, which will serve me perfectly. I don't want to go thru buying several bags I won't like, so I will go straight to one of those. I see the value in your channel, and have subscribed. Thanks again, and see you on the trail!
Awesome man glad I could help!
The system of QUECHUA
2-IN-1 SLEEPING BAG - SLEEPIN BED MH500 15°C XL
Combines the quilt and sleeping pad
Decathlon has some great stuff!
Everyone say these are roomy sleeping bags. I am 182cm and 100kg. Not particularly fat but quite sizeable around my shoulders, upperbody. I see other sleeping bags that has about an extra 10cm girth around the shoulders compared to these ones. Can anyone give me some advice on some other sleeping bags that is actually big! But at the same time possible for hiking around for a few days without having abnormal size or "camping with the car" kind of size? That would be much appreciated. For example Marmot trestles eco 20 and 30 x wide should be wider than all of these bags over the shoulders. I just struggle to understand and to find the specs for a bag that I could actually switch sides in without a complete struggle. Bought and returned one bag that was XL. When I zipped that one I was thinking this adventure that I plan for me and my wife is not going to happen after all. We have all gear except a sizeable bag for me...🥾⛺🎒
I'm not sure how universal this is but it might convert a reaosnably priced bag into something that would work better for you: Big Agnes Wedgie Sleeping Bag Expander - amzn.to/45M59lS
OMG! Thank you so much! Cloud 20 solves (almost) all of my problems - I can sleep on the side or stomach, I'm not getting klaustrofobia attacks, I can pop out my RLS legs to cool down and stop twitching, and I think it's wide enough for my dog to sleep in a spoon next to me. :D BUT, I do have a problem with my hip hurting the next day. I always thought it's from hiking and pack weight, but recently I slept on my insulation pad indoors and the next day my hip hurted. Any advice on what kind of insulation pad is best for preventing hips hurting?
First, I am so glad the Cloud 20 worked for you! Second, the best pads for support seem to be ones with a "quilted" or "dot" pattern rather than tubes. These work more like a home mattress and don't squish the air out from under pressure points as much. I'd look at the Nemo Tensor or the new UL pads from Zenbivy.
Hope that helps!
I went with that WM Terralite. I've now had the chance to use it a few times and absolutely love it. Top quality product. It has more room than needed for a wide pad and even with wide shoulders I can easily slip my arms to my sides and pull em back out without ever feeling trapped. The craftsmanship put into these bags leaves no question why they are so highly regarded.
Good choice!
all you need is a bottle of rum you’ll sleep fine
Yo ho ho!
Tried the Nemo and hate it not enough room in the shoulder area, I’m back to my old school Coleman square bag. Plenty of room and much warmer than the Nemo.
Glad you found something that worked!
Great video. I have the Disco 15 and love it. It’s on the heavier side for light sleeping bags. Was looking into the Terralite as an alternative to shave off a pound as well as still have room to move around. Just a little concerned about warmth. Would you say the Terralite sleeps warmer than the Disco even though it’s a 25 degree? My Disco starts getting a little cold in the mid 30’s. I also believe you can order a Terralite overstuffed. Thanks.
The Terralite wasn't mine actually and I was just using it for form factor. WM does overstuff and I'd trust their ratings!
Did you get the Cloud 20 onto your wide Tensor pad ok? The Cloud specs suggest a max pad size of 25” x 2.5”?!
Yes, it fits perfectly.
I am a turner. If I put my backpack on my legs, it pins me and stops me from turning.
I find the smaller the bag the less I move around. My last sleeping bag was so big I was stuffing it under me because the was too much air cooling me down. There should be large and slim bags;like there is regular and extra wide sleeping pads
I'd hate that lol! But the different volume bags based on body size is good. :)
I'm using RockFront 350Pro quilt together with a sheet. No cold spots for me.
Oh cool, I've not heard of them. How does the sheet work?
wow paul i have just picked up a 1000 fill goose down bag paul 56 pounds and i thought no its gunna be crap and when it come i was well pleased its called a kamperbox
Not sure who Paul is...:) 1000 fill for about $70 doesn't sound possible!
Other than the hood being removed quilts look exactly like an unzipped sleeping bag to me so where is the material savings for a quilt other than the hood?
Well zippers weigh a lot as well as the heavier material they attach to and those are gone. Also the quilt does not wrap all the way around the body so there is less of that material as well as the fill that would have been inside that additional material. All things being equal they definitely weigh less. Whether that weight savings is worth the hassle is another question. ;)
Great video, exactly what I was looking for!
Glad you liked it!
Your video gave me a great idea: I will sew a sleeping pad sleeve under my sleeping bag to be able to toss and turn, with the bag staying in place upright. Cheap and effective!
Great idea for a cool DIY!
Maybe you should consider just sewing some small loops on the sides of your sleeping bag and them make a separate pad sleeve that has some plastic hooks. Then you can just attach the sleeve to the bag with the hooks. I think this is less destructive in case the sleeve idea doesnt work, and you can also use the same sleeve with all your different sleeping bags just by adding the loops to all your bags.
just dropped in to say.. what kind of freak sleeps on their stomach??? that is all.. bye weirdoes
We never said we sleep on our OWN stomachs.
Nylon Chinese coffin space 😅
I love my Sierra designs quilt.
One question, I had read some bags might have thinner insulation on the back side. Their ratings are not accurate if the bag is not in the intended orientation. Is that correct?
Yes, if the fill is different on one side then its loft will change along with its temperature rating.
Agreed. There's a video "Sleeping Bag vs Quilt--Infrared Proof" on "Adventures In Reach"'s channel that clearly proves how many BTU's a quilt loses with movement and those BTU's have to be ginned back up by body heat. I think quilts are great for moderate conditions, but once you have to include a lot of add-ons to a quilt to get it to perform like a basic sleeping bag (baffles, strapping, etc...), you might as well get a sleeping bag from the start and besides, nobody is going to benefit from the quilt's "open" configuration in extreme cold. As a matter of fact, for the price of a competent cold weather quilt (which would probably be too hot for moderate conditions), one could get a good quality 3 season quilt AND a good quality extreme cold sleeping bag and ALWAYS sleep right.
Yeah that seems to match my experience as well. :)
On Amazon there exists a complaint about the Cloud 20 loosing its loft after it is washed. “after washing and drying the sleeping bag per the instructions on the tag, half of the baffles have completely lost all the down fill”. Sierra suggested tumbling with no heat with a tennis ball, but the customer indicated that did not work. Anybody else have experience regarding this issue one way or the other?
Hmmmm that's too bad. Its not such a unique design that it should have any particular problems that I can see. I'd suspect the initial wash was done improperly but I can't really say of course. Down isn't the easiest to handle. :/
@@BackcountryPilgrim I agree. I suspect the washing and drying recommendations were not followed. My plan is to purchase this product. It looks to me that the baffles are further apart, could that cause more clumping of the down? Even so I would think the tennis ball would fluff it back up.
The Nemo Riff is not really a more premium product than the Disco. It's more of an ultralight version. It provides the exact same amount of insulation altogether but in a slightly thinner format thus technically increasing the gsm. So the Riff is higher gsm but it is NOT warmer from the weight used. The point of the riff is that it packs down a bit smaller than the Disco but that sacrifices some of the spaciousness and comfortability that comes with the Disco. To some, the thinner profile of the Riff might be a bit warmer though because there is less air around the sleeper's body due to the thinner profile making it slightly warmer like a mummy bag would. But, again, that sacrifices spaciousness and movement so it is up to each person what they want. I'm really skinny but I'm very happy with the size of my Nemo Disco, but I also have yet to see how warm it is on the trail.
The Riff uses 800 fill down, that's the biggest difference, it is also slightly less wide. Together they make for a smaller volume and much lower weight for the same temp rating. support.nemoequipment.com/hc/en-us/articles/23292383147924-This-versus-That-Disco-versus-Riff
@@BackcountryPilgrim It's definitely not a "much lower" weight. The difference is roughly 100g/4oz. The difference is so small that you wouldn't actually be able to tell the difference when carrying it or even holding it in your hand.
I sleep like you do, Pilgrim. I too use a Nemo Disco, but though rated to 15, for me it’s good to about 40F. For colder weather, I use a Feathered Friends bag rated to 20F (comfort level). This past summer, I got a Zenbivy Light bed rated to 25, which I’ll use at 35-40F. It’s extremely comfortable…better than the Disco. Definitely recommend you try it.
I'm getting a lot of zenbivy recommendations guess that one is next!
Such Zenbivy design genius. Thank goodness he made his own company during this time ❤
And now we have an ultra light version of the Zenbivy 😊
Yup! I'm actually reviewing the new system right now. (Spoiler: It's totally rad!) :)
Not sure if it's available in the US, but Nordisk Gormsson Egg, is pretty awesome for a stomach sleepers
I haven't heard of that company but I'll check it out! Thanks!
Sierra design cloud is great ( I have it for 2 years) and totally underrated by hiking community as never appears in any tops
Yeah I am surprised it doesn't get as much air time as others.
They fit great if you are a skeleton 💀 😂
I assume you mean mummies. ;)
I’m a big fan of my Big Agnus Anvil Spur. It attaches to the sleeping pad and is essentially a closed quilt, as there is no insulation on the back of the bag, additionally the zip runs all the way to my feet… but about that zipper, it can be a pain the butt. I’ve used in hunting in Alaska (Spring - May) and hiking the mountains of Utah (Fall - Sept/Oct) worked great.
I think you're the second to mention that one, I'll have to check it out! Thanks!
I agree. I think the best of all worlds is a bag like the anvil horn. no down underneath but no cold spots when tossing and turning. another big feature being that when you do toss and turn (as most of us do) the warm air trapped in the down is far less displaced, making it very efficient.
Two problems with sleeping on my side in my current bag: hood and zipper. I have to sleep on my left side which means I’m sleeping on the zipper. Or I can roll over inside the bag and my head winds up in the hood. Really interested in your solutions.
The zipper is beneath you? I think I am missing something. As to the hood - you might want to check out the Big Agnes Sidewinder - its hood is built in sideways!
@@BackcountryPilgrim I’ll check out the sidewinder, thanks!
Because the zipper is on the left side, and I have to sleep on my left side because of heartburn issues, my head is sideways in the hood, or I roll the whole bag to the left a quarter turn so the hood is correct for my head but I am sleeping on the zipper. So the sidewinder might work. I think i will also look into a quilt that’s a bit wider than standard so I can wrap it all around me, and use it with a down hood.
I'd 100% look into Zenbivy - might solve all these issues! I've got two videos on them. :)
What about the Big Agnes 3N1?
I've never had one but I hear good things about BA for side sleepers. Especially the Sidewinder. Tell me about it!
You should a look at the Big Agnes Anvil Horn bags. Roomier than a mummy bag and with the sleeping pad sleeve. As a side/stomach/back sleeper I had a better night of sleep in this bag than I have even had in a mummy bag (or in the Nemo Forte, which I just replaced even though I liked it)
Thanks! I like BA - I have the Copper Spur tent and a 50" pad for duo hiking, but I've never looked at them for sleeping bags.
Hey, i can get the nemo disco for a great discount only its the long version and im only 181 cm or 5,9 inch. Will this be a big problem whit keeping me warm?
Technically it is harder for your body to warm up more space, but I got the long myself (5' 10") because I keep my clothes in the bag with me and I just put them down in the footbox at night. Works great!
Thx man!! Great vid btw. And thanks for the fast reply. You got yourself a other subscriber.
You bet!
Farmers usually harvest goose down after the birds are slaughtered for meat, and most geese are killed about 15 weeks after hatching. But farmers may also pluck the feathers when geese are still alive, a painful process akin to someone ripping out human hair, animal welfare and advocacy groups say.18 Dec 2020
It's a good idea to look for ethically sourced down.
The sleeping pad sleeve is the gamechanger for those of us that toss and turn and fidget all night. Big Agnes, Sierra Design are the only two I know that have one. The Big Agnes Echo park / Diamond parks are humungous. I'm having a serious look at the Sierra Backcountry 650, it looks ideal for fidgets like me, though the Big Agnes bags all have a cool pillow barn that's really useful.
Yeah I like mine a lot, great way to make a bag warmer but also more adaptable.
My idea- sleep under a camping blanket or unzipped square sleeping bag that does the same job. Obviously lie on your sleeping pad too. Now put all of that inside a roomy and breathable bivvy bag. The bivvy bag is draught proof and the pad will keep it in place as you toss and turn. Simple and cheap and lightweight if you choose the components carefully. My UK setup is an Alpkit hunka XL bivvy bag, a Snugpak jungle blanket XL (folded for doubled thickness) and a Dutch army surplus self inflating mat. I mocked it up with tiny plastic crocodile clips to keep everything in place but I'll replace them with poppers now I've proven the concept.
Interesting! I like the idea!
So I finally got around to finishing this... it's awesome!!! If you're going to take a bivvy bag anyway just add some snap fasteners to the grosgrain around the collar and clip on your camping blanket of choice. It acts like a giant sleeping bag if you've got a wide one. So much room!
You missed the most important feature of the wm terralite; it has 2 zippers. The 2nd one goes around toe box allowing you to open only the foot if you have 🔥 feet.
Good catch! Two-way zips are fairly common but this is an unusual feature!
Love my cloud 20 for its innovative design and thoughtful approach to comfort. Also inexpensive and light (under 2 pounds). My cat likes it too.
Very nice!
Western mountaineering Alpinlite
Works like a quilt just unzip it and leave the down up
You can do this with any bag. Not sure how anyone couldn’t figure that out as quilts don’t work for everything but I have never worried about using a bag for everything
Yeah this comes up often. It can get awkward with hoods but it isn't impossible. The bigger benefit with a quilt is weight. WM rocks!
I have tried the quilts. I would not give up my terralite for a quilt....ever
Buy a quilt that actually fits properly. If you have a sleeping bag that is 63 at the shoulders, then buy a quilt that is 65 wide.
Too many big guys sleeping in quilts that are sized wrong for them.
I followled UGQ's sizing but a much wider quilt would help if it tapered right. At some point I'd practically back in a bag again lol!
@@BackcountryPilgrim I prefer the no taper 65 wide fromUGQ.
Have you ever used a big agnes system where a pad inserts into the back?
I haven't!
@@BackcountryPilgrim I have three bags all 20 years old and I have no plan to replace them with anything other than Big Agnes Sleep systems. the only exception is a summer quilt of some sort maybe.
@Pattower I love their tents, never used a bag though. Stick with what works!
I've been using mummy bags as quilts since I was a kid. If it gets colder I just zip them up.
Many work well like that. :)
Reminds me of Big Agnes
A lot of people have been recommending BA in these comments, I might have to check it out sometime!
The Big Agnes Anvil Horn 15 is a great bag for side sleepers. It has a sleeve for you pad and also a pillow barn for your pillow. It is a great mid range priced bag.
Nice! I like BA's stuff - I have the Copper Spur 2p and their 50" Sleep pad. Thanks!
For clarity, Nemo's higher quality bag is the Riff, not "Rift". 😃
"Rift" is way cooler. ;)
the problem for these systems is the weight...they are double than a quilt. That's the main issue...
Well, 8 oz. isn't double but yes there is a weight penalty for full comfort, convenience, and warmth. ;)
@@BackcountryPilgrim yeah. it's really hard to find the best for a stomach sleeper under 700grams.
I think Zenbivy is the answer. Their UL system is 625 grams! Best of both worlds. :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim the problem is just the 810€ that cost. Reasonable for what they offer probably, but it’s almost 3 times a normal quilt. :) with an infinite budget I would buy it probably and I’d also love the couple one, but atm it’s too expensive.
Backpacking gear rule is you can only pick two: lightweight, quality, inexpensive. Haha.
You may be crushing the down directly underneath you, but, the rest of the bottom down that your not directly on, is your insulation from the cold.
The issue is when I move around I have to readjust and my stomach sleeping posture doesn't work well unless the quilt is huge.
Would love to see you compare the big agnes anvil horn and the zenbivy light bed!
Tell them to send em over! :)
You might want to check this out!
ruclips.net/video/H9HIlj_ZH5Q/видео.html
Going in first backpacking trip soon. I bought the disco before seeing your vid-exactly because I thought it would help this. I tried it at rei and it is so much more roomy than a mummy bag.
Great to hear!
I don't know. To me any sleeping bag that is priced over 100 USD is considered overkill in my opinion. The higher the price is beyond that mark, the more true my statement becomes. 350-400+ dollars for a sleeping bag is outrageous.
Well value is a different issue than quality and the point becomes moot if there isn't any competition that can match the quality. But there is a law of diminishing returns that you need to watch out for!
I've used the Klymit KSB20 XL down bag for 5 years now. At 82in x 40in (girth/circumference of 78in) with a 650-down fill and only 3lbs, this bag is roomy and warm. This is by far the widest single person mummy style bag I could find while also being a bit stretchy. As a bigger camper, this is a necessity. The bag has a dual direction zipper so you can open the bottom to stick a leg out while still comfortably wrapped at the torso. It also has toggles to sinch up the bag length to reduce the dead space in the foot box for shorter sleepers. By far the best bag I've used ever. 😀👍
Sounds great!
Thank you for this comparisons and the images of you using these. I"m looking for lightweight but also know that I sleep cold, and I sleep on my side. And I'm quite short. I bought a quilt thinking it was the answer but trying it out at home (no pad, on my bed) I realized it's absolutely not for me. It takes forever to get warm and every time I turn I get long lasting cold spots. So I was at a loss. Now I see other options for me (and realize that a zippered bag is essential for me to stay warm). Subscribed.
I'm so glad it helped!
Wow, I sleep exactly the same way; on stomach, with one leg out.
Never could use a mummy bag.
I learned, decades ago, to use a rectangular bag as a quilt.
Sheet or liner over the pad.
It's pretty much like sleeping at home. I don't use the zipper at all unless it is very cold out.
The spoon shape and, especially, the roomy Terralite, look interesting. But what is the advantage over a rectangular bag that is certain to be more versatile and comfortable? A few ounces of weight, maybe.
The pocket for the pad seems so obvious. How come it is so rare?
Although I have always used sleeping bags out of habit, I would probably be just as happy with a lightweight blanket and sheet.
Thanks for discussing this; it's the first time I've seen anyone mention the topic. I suspected that I couldn't be the only person who sleeps that way, but I was beginning to wonder. :)
I think it's more about thermal efficiency. A blanket would have to be pretty large to seal up the interior air and then you've got material and insulation you're carrying but not using. I think once temps got to the lower end of a blanket's / bag's ability it would make a difference. I've done it too though!
@@BackcountryPilgrim Sure, efficient is good if you can sleep in it. But a bag isn't MUCH more efficient than a blanket. An unzipped rectangular bag is about the size of a twin blanket, which you can wrap around you. You know... like a quilt.
You don't get drafts at home. Why? Because that extra size of a blanket mostly prevents them. (Well, plus your bedroom probably isn't 20F).
Perhaps a bigger difference is fabric weight. You might get a light bag with 10d or 15d shell, but even a light blanket is more likely to have 70d-ish shell.
For perspective, the weight difference between an expensive down bag and a $30 comforter is two pounds or less. For the budget-conscious, that might be just fine.
For sure!
Man, I needed to hear this. Was completely convinced that quilts would work for me as a side sleeper, then remembered the last time I went camping with a fully unfolded sleeping bag to fit 2 people. Forgot how many times I would roll over and completely uncover my back in the process
With bags like these or the Zenbivy quilt bed, there's no reason to ever have that happen again! :)
I use a Mountain Equipment Helium 800GT, the GT being the extra wide variant, with a Helium expansion baffle that adds 5 more centimeters. Super warm and wide enough to roll around in.
Sounds great! Expandability is a welcome feature in bags. :)
I love my mummy sleeping bag, the MEC -7°C aquilina, but struggle to find a comfortable side position, so this year I got the Big Agnes Wedgie, which adds inches to my bag without me having buy a whole new bag!! I had to modify the zipper (right vs left zip) for it to work but I’m so happy with it
THAT IS AWESOME! I'd never seen one of those before, thank you! (For anyone curious: amzn.to/3VREHDU).
I wish there was a cross between the disco and the Sierra Design Backcountry. I like the spoon shape and larger hood of the disco and the zipperles quilt and pad sleeve while saving space with no insulation on the back top half.
Thay would be rad!
I'm pure stomach sleeper, on a bed or on the ground. The only way I can sleep on my back (or side) is on a hammock, lights out, I wake up in the morning pretty much on the same position that I slept.
Nice! I squirm around a lot. I really need to try a hammock sometime!
Solid information
Thanks!
I have the Nemo Sonic 0° sleeping bag. It is not spoon shaped like the Riff or the Disco, but it still has a more spacious design than most 0° mummy bags and the Sonic still has thermogills like it's little brothers.
Nice! yeah the Disco/Riff is very roomy, it'd be tough to get them down to 0 without way more insulation or shrinking the inner volume.
Do you feel the hood is restrictive though on the Sonic? The reason I ask is because I really like the Nemo bags with the extra room and the venting gills. However I am worried the hood seems too narrow. I need a 0° bag. Too bad they don't make the rift in a 0° option.
The perfect bag for me would be the Rift in 0° and have a pad sleeve like the Big Agnes bags. Then you would have the perfect set up.
@@chrismeyer2963 I'm sorry, but even though I own the Sonic, I usually sleep with my head out of the sleeping bag with the hood under my head. The few times I have used the hood, I didn't find it restrictive though.
@@michaeldriggers7681 thank you for the response. I think maybe I just need to pull the trigger and try it out.
I’ve just started trail running / ultramarathoning instead of sleeping, just keep going and don’t sleep for a day or two. I haven’t worked out anything past that. I’ve yet to get a good night sleep on the trails so might as well keep moving. I hope one day to defeat the problem and get to sleep, until then I’ll keep it under 100 miles or so.
Well, that's one way to do it haha!
Nice! Thanks for this video. Although I found it a bit late (16 months), it's got great information for me. I've been using a Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15* for more than fifteen years and it's showing it's age. Big Agnes completely redesigned the Lost Ranger and it's nothing like my old bag and I'm not too keen on the new version. The Sierra Designs bag is very similar to the design of my old Lost Ranger that I like. And at just under two pounds, it weighs less than my old Lost Ranger.
Yeah, it is too bad companies seem to redesign every year to keep people interested.
What a informative nice video!
Keep up the good work!!!!
Also look at the sequoia from western mountaineering.
I have the gws version and it is a blast
WM is great!
I wanna say the quilt makers are just making excuses now to not make sleeping bags and then go on with weird things. But there are obviously some nifty solutions out there.
In Zenbivy's case they just added a light piece of gear that resolves many quilt problems. Best of both worlds!
If like me you need it for motorbike camping so pack size is not so much an issue the 2 i would consider are eurohike adventurer 300XL on sale for about £40 and the beast sleeping pod which is huge again for about £40 im probably going with the beast as its just so much bigger than the eurohike 300xl but pack size will suck
Volume is important to me as the bigger the backpacker the more it will weigh too. :)
I have the Terralite and the Cloud 35. And of course I'm a side and stomach sleeper and those are the two top-notch. For any hot/summer just go ahead and throw on your long johns and almost any random down blanket. Don't go for the high dollar down blankets, not worth it for hot weather.
Yeah you can find them for very good prices instead of another bag, plus modularity is the best when it comes to giving gear!
My solution was to sleep in a hammock designed to provide a nice flat lay, I can change positions all night with little to no issues….15 years later, it’s still my solution 👍
Good stuff!
Thank you for a great video. I was thinking that I was becoming an old and grumpy man since I didnt like sleeping in ordinary sleepingbags anh more
Glad it was helpful - but comfortable sleeping bags are no excuse for not becoming an old and grumpy man. :)
Thank you so much for sharing this great and informative video! Really appreciate it!
You are so welcome!
The idea that there is wasted insulation underneath a person sleeping would only really be true if we were built flat on the bottom. Don’t know about anyone else but I’m definitely not. I suppose the pad should come up to fill in the spaces but that’s not quite accurate for me either.
It's only wasted in places where it is crushed, but that's a lot of it - and because heat rises the bottom layer is also not as helpful. Still better than the nothing a quilt offers though! :)
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when it's too warm or just the feet. The way I move, I can't see how a quilt would keep me warm. You will also need to buy a liner to have over the mat, to sleep on. I'm able to sleep 10 or 11 hours per night with no trouble at all.
Sounds like a great setup!
I have the Nemo Disco and like the extra roominess of it, rei had it on sale for $168 so it was a no brainer to trade in my Nemo forte I had just bought few weeks earlier for the $50 refund and around 1lb weight savings, they currently have it for $223 low stock and discontinued
Nice move!
quilts blow
Lol!
I owed the Disco it was warm but it bled feathers like a pig and the zipper broke after 30 times . Returned 2 others as well mountain hardwear and i cant even remember the 3rd . I finally went to a quilt and i totally agree that below 30 i got cold, im So damn frustrated, do i get the Enlightened Equipment zero or another bag? Im leaning towards a zero bag, Western Mountaineering or something that has a no question ask return policy, im a bit warn out with the whole process.
Man, that's rough. Western Mountaineering is the only bag company I've never heard anything but praise for, that may be the way to go. "Buy once, cry once." ;)
Everyone has a preference until the temperature plummets .... then they go for sleeping bags.
I went on a supposedly "mild" camp in Scotland, but then got rained on, sleeted on, snowed on, and the temp dropped far below predicted levels to -2c.
Meanwhile I am there with my autumn sleeping system, damp clothes, and cold AF.
Forget "quilts" and having a bit of your back exposed. I could feel where my hip was pressing into my mat because there was heat exchange.
I could literally visualise my poorly closing seal on my outer because it was a blue line of cold down my body.
When everything goes wrong, the one thing you can rely on to keep you alive is stripping off your wet clothes and crawling into your sleep system.
Dont cheap out on that for the sake of losing a few grams of weight.
I would personally train harder, so I got stronger, so I could carry more weight, JUST to carry a decent sleep system.
When everything goes wrong your bag is going to be the only thing keeping you alive.
........quilts .... seriously?
Right tool for the right job, but sometimes you don't know what the job will be, and then you better have a tool that will work anyway!
I have a design sleeping bag also with the hole in the bottom.
I'm a stomach sleeper who loves to stretch out and move in my sleep, and my feet have somehow figured out how to sneak themselves out through the foothole whilst I'm asleep.
Definitely given me a wake-up trying to figure out why my feet are feeling cold haha
Ha! Maybe some wool socks? :)
I have the nemo disco 15. Its comfortable, but no way I could use it at 15-20 degrees. I've been cold in the mid 30s with that bag
I've been down to freezing but I am not sure how far below. There's a lot to warmth in addition to the bag like base layers, body type, and an insulated pad. If you already have warm gear maybe you need more of a dad bod haha! ;)
Awesome video. I use the Sea to Summit Ascent 2 because it has also space and a flexible design with versatile zippers.
Very nice!
I can also vouch for the Ascent Series
Was stoked when I found the SD Cloud some time ago, and have had a love relationship to is since our first night out.
Love at first sleep. Awwww! :)
You know, I love the Cloud 20. On a group trip this summer, it was the most requested bag. But the aesthetics are just so awful! Sierra Designs, please change the look of this bag. I don’t want to look like a Boy Scout. I’m a sophisticated adult who spends a lot of time sleeping outdoors and I want my bags to look as good as EE, WM and ZenBivy. And while you’re at it, please upgrade the down and lighten the Cloud 20. Thanks!
@suzannestroh3194 Yeah SD isn't the best at color or pattern choices..:)
This was a very informative video. I am a pretty active sleeper. I am older so going light is very important for me. I changed to a 20 degree Zpack quilt a few years ago and it works well. If it’s going to get near the 20 degree mark I pack my Montbell down pants and down sleeping booties. If it’s going to be very cold I leave the quilt and bring my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag. Quilts are great but sleeping bags are the way to go if it’s really cold. I like that WM bag you covered. I do a lot of long distance backpacking so I generally just pack the quilt and hope for the best. I am generally fine.
Great options! And keeping things somewhat modular is always a good idea. :)
I got the Nemo Disco 15 degree last year. Absolute game changer (for the better)! The hourglass shape is fantastic for multiple sleeping positions, and many great innovations since the last time I bought bags: the gills, the neck curtain, and the SNOWPLOW ZIPPER PULL, the thing rocks! I’m still keeping my eyes open for the perfect pillow, but so far a Costco box wine bladder with a piece of egg foam around it in a cotton tshirt pillowcase is working well.
Right on! Yeah I still love my Nemo. Let me know if you find the perfect pillow - that continues to slide me!