MOTB was the expansion pack that got me interested in developing the Realms of Trinity. Without it, I never would have been interested in doing so. Mechanically, and core engine features for developers were through the roof over the OG. Since then, thanks to the community, there is tons of new fixes for the engine and content that can be used to build very robust content. Heck, were still live and doing well of being up for 13+ years. I cannot say enough about what Obsidian and Bioware have done for the community. I had the opportunity of interviewing Feargus Urquhart, CEO of Obisidian, back in 2013, and the vision he had for NWN2 was epic, and they had epic challenges to get done what they did..
Nwn 2 is a classic rpg storywise. Meet some friends, do some side quests, get the sword, kill the evil thing at the end. It's about the people you meet and how you rise to power. MotB though is an rpg that has an impact on a cosmic scale. If the rules of the universe and the gods are wrong, then what do you do? Change them? Save yourself? Become something that even the gods fear? I love the nwn2 series, thank you for this video
Mask was so so so special that I never managed to figure out how did the main title suck so bad in the comparison. Also, it oozes forgotten realms lore which is always great
I really enjoyed Mask of the Betrayer. Safiya wasn't just a "my culture doth protest" trope or token evil companion, but one with complex motivations unrelated to being a Red Wizard of Thay. Indeed, she had great potential to be either heroic or villainous all dependent on the player. Likewise, Gann could continue to be the misanthrope out to just cheese everyone or become a more reliable and dependable person despite his chaotic nature. As to the story, in addition to it covering the four Greek Loves, it also touched very much on the nature of faith and existentialism. Indeed, the whole conversion with Myrkul (especially if your wisdom and intelligence is high enough to get the extra dialogue options) comes out as something akin to a Nietzschean/Kantian discussion on the nature of spiritualism. That along with Obsidian's Planescape: Torment was able to create compelling stories based on deep thought topics that philosophers have grappled with throughout the ages. And they did it in a way that was not as preachy and in your face as many of the games, movies, and "entertainment" we find today.
@Seed More I agree, but people don't like NWN for it's characters or it's plot(both are really bad), people like it for it's tools set and great modules. And I agree on spiritual sucessor part, but this comparison is strange, Dragon Age just like others more modern RPGs abandon many important part of older games in favor of accessibility, it doesn't try to be Baldur's Gate.
I love Neverwinter Nights 2 and ALL of its expansions! It was my first REAL dungeons and dragons RPG i had ever played, my first game with adult themes in it, first romance in a game, first everything really! I remember playing it nonstop as a kid in middle school, and have been playing it again recently since COVID. It is a truly great game!
MOTB has much better storyline than original NWM2 and one of best in RPG, It's not classic from zero to hero (although we all love it) but it's more closer to Planescape Torment which is the best game story line ever.
I think at the end, if the player accept the curse and master it. He becom one of the most strong creature in the multiverse. Even Kelemvor admit his inferiority, and threaten to fight the player with all he have if he dont leave the Fugue Plane. As a player that accepted to becom a God in the Baldurs Gate serie (though when i learn later what happen to Iyatchu Xvim, maybe it was not a good idea...). Learned the True name of Mephistiopheles in Horde of the Underdark, and turned him to my servant. I enjoyed becoming a incarnation of the Void in Mask of the Betrayer.
@@LightStreak567 godhood is like a private club, if you are not invited you will get frown upon by the other. I enjoy much more the alternate course thatbtake you beyond that, like what you can achiev in horde of underdark or mask of betrayer
Plus there is effectively two games interlaced together, but unless I missed it that wasn't mentioned. It branches when you face the Great Bear. Consume the bear and you go down the evil path, get One of Many and destroy the forest. Supress the spirit eater, get the bear and you work to save the forest. It then branches again when you reach the City of the Dead - defend or save while good and defend or save while evil. Choices, choices.
Perhaps what I meant is that you don't go to different locations or meet different characters with your decisions as you do in some other games. But yes, choices are very impactful. There's also restoring the Wood man or devouring his soul. It's a nice little pack of great story, choices and good combat. Everything I want in an RPG.
@@YeOldEntertainment I've played almost all the combos over the years. I usually play supress even if an Evil character simply because OoM annoys me (especially if you let him eat the dead god). Only one I haven't played is the "betray everyone" version because, as you say, being a quality RPG, you get attached to them and so I didn't want to kill all my companions just to get a necklace.
@@robd9413 Same here. I find the curse is more trouble that what it is worth. Even assuming you executed spirit eating with perfect timing, it is still limited by the total number of critters on a particular map and within the campaign. The payout to me is meh.
Шикарная дополнение с чертовски мрачной атмосферой. А диалог с Миркулом буквально одна из немногих вещей в играх в целом, которая вызывает мурашки! Но оригинальная компания с её компаньонами все равно роднее и ближе к сердцу =)
Неее, мне MotB гораздо больше понравился. Оригинальная кампания уж слишком… обычная что-ли. Даж в НВН1 имхо лучше была. А тут: и эпик тебе и не банальные компаньоны и сюжет и философская составляющая. Шикарная игра
I just wanted to make the point that characters are well written because they have goals, purpose, obstacles and all of these elements are woven into the fabric of their journey alongside the main character. I didn't feel like I needed to mention every character. Besides I like Kaelyn a little bit less than the others.
@@YeOldEntertainment that's fair, it just surprised me to not even hear them mentioned at all. Particularly One of Many who to me was one of the more interesting characters in gaming.
Just fyi, elementals also count as spirits. Once you know this, summoning a bunch of them around you and hitting suppression, a few times, means no more problems with spirit meter. If you don't want to play as the devourer.
I adored this expansion. After the fairly vanilla NWN2 campaign that ended in a WTF “Rocks Fall, Everybody Dies” ending, Mask of the Betrayer was a breath of fresh air. Spoiler I think my only real complaint (but is also an “okay, that’s fair…” moment) is that towards the end of the game you can pretty much go in to a “Rip Roaring Rampage of Revenge”. You’re a level 30ish character, empowered by the spirit eater, arriving at the gates of the Plane of the Dead, determined to tear down the Wall of the Faithless, only for Kelemvor to laugh at you and go “No!” On one hand, it’s disappointingly don’t get to follow through on that, on the other, having even a spirit eater empowered mortal being able to challenge Kelemvor in his own realm is a bit much :P But otherwise, it is a great expansion.
@@marinmiljkovic9737 Sorry, but no. You are still very much mortal. You have powers and abilities well beyond other mortals, some even world changing in the case of casters, but you are not immortal. You can still die of old age, you can still die to a well placed dagger while you sleep. Sure you might have the power to defeat the Elemental Princes, challenge Demi-gods, and even make some lesser deities think twice about facing you in combat, but that doesn’t make you a god yourself. You are not divine, you don’t have an Avatar that acts for you on the Prime Material Planes. You are just an insanely powerful mortal being, and despite your power, the vast majority of gods can just laugh at you and say “No” when you try to directly challenge them, especially if your are on their home turf.
@@LMoftheCoast dying of old age is the easiest, there are hundreds of ways to.not die from.old age in dnd, any lev 30 char could easily have one. Although you may not have a divinty rank it is easy to challange demigods past lev 20. And all gods can also die with regards to a well placed dagger. Kudos
On the difficulty: If you play a buffing Wizard, in my experience at least, the difficulty is pretty manageable. Also, I love telling Kelemvor that I'll be back.
Honestly one of the best RPGs ever. Right up there with Planescape: Torment in terms of creativity and story. It's a pity it is an expansion. You can play it on its own, but then you have that cognitive dissonance where your character starts at legendary level - something that I have difficulty with. Unfortunately, the alternative is to play through the main campaign of NWN2, which is okay but not great - definitely forgettable. On the plus side, Mask of the Betrayer makes more sense if you've played the original campaign, since it is designed to be the follow up, and some of your companions from the original campaign turn up in MotB. Overall though, if you don't feel like playing many hours through a lacklustre campaign, don't bother. Mask of the Betrayer is definitely worth playing, so don't let the fact that is an expansion put you off. I played through the NWN2 campaign and then Mask of the Betrayer over 10 years ago. I can only remember 2-3 parts of the original campaign, but I can remember ALL of MotB. I went the good route, where I refused to feed, and it made the game very difficult, very tense (because you are literally dying, so everything is timed), and ultimately very rewarding.
I think the learning curve is much too steep to just jump into MOTB. Besides, as you say, there are things from the original that are tied into this one. Fortunately the core game is decent enough to play as a "warmup".
Highly recommended! Unfortunately MOTB makes it difficult to play other “story” based RPGs because it’s a difficult bar to reach. It’s so good I replayed a good section of the end game just to get a better ending as I missed some stuff and didn’t like how it ended. I rarely do that, but it was so good I wanted the best possible experience. I agree, the academy was the weakest section, annoying tedious puzzle and fetch quests, but beyond that the game is a fantastic expansion. I found the spirit meter was much easier to manager if you got the “eternal rest” ability in the death god’s vault in a conversation. That way you can feed on undead spirits without taking a hit to your “good” reputation. You also can use “ suppress hunger” once a day to control your meter. Some don’t like him, but Okku is awesome, I don’t care what anyone says haha.
My thoughts exactly. MOTB knocked that thing out of the park and there haven't been any D&D games (that I know of) and very few RPGs that have managed to achieve this level of narrative. As for Okku. There are some people who don't like him? how? He has very solid motivations to antagonize you at first and then he has very strong reasons to join you, not to mention a strong character arc and good voice acting. I the PC had more interactions with him, and he's rather slim on the personality quirks department, but he's amazing. He's also an abso-freaking-lutely awesome tank. Maybe even the best.
@@YeOldEntertainment Oh some people on the Internets complain that he's boring, or too one-dimensional. I loved him, sure he's not as quirky as Gann, but he's a loyal and great companion. He's one of the reasons why I replayed the end-game, I didn't like Okku's fate in my original ending. So i went back and made sure I completed everything (got all the mask pieces) and his ending was way better. I rarely do that, shows you how good of a job they did on the character if it affected my gameplay that much.
I think this is one of the best rpgs ever made. It's a shame the lore hasn't really been developed in novels or other video games. I had a blast playing this with my agility based fighter rogue hybrid. Combat never really seemed too much for me though. Thanks for the review.
@@YeOldEntertainment Personally, I think that HotU is not *quite* as good as MotB in terms of story, but better in terms of engine-playability, and 'graphics feel', even if the polygon count is much lower. If you are going to try ow NWN1, I strongly recommend you skip NWN's OC as it is very very boring, and start with the first expansion Shadows of Undrentide, 'cuz it's really good. Not on the tier of HotU, and absolutely not on the level of MotB, but... good. HofU is technically a direct sequel to SoU, but there isn't any carry over in terms of choices, just a few references made in the first chapter and a(n amazing) shared npc.
Hey. I just found your channel today and watched a few (and a few more) of your vids. Why do you have so few subs? Your material is worth at the very least a hundred times that! Please. By all means, continue making content.
Next time I have the occasion, I'll raise a glass to you getting more of the limelight then. Also, have you considered setting up a Discord yet? It could become a self-driving community and improve your connection with the fans (or not, depending on your stance ad time spent on it).
I understand. I might be strongly biased since I am first and foremost a story guy. But I also enjoyed the combat. It's especially interesting if you see it as continuation of the core game.
I haven't played the Safyia romance, but the Gann one never struck me as all that forced. Probably because of all the dream sequences that are just the two of you. ;-)
Well... there was a 60 hour tutorial called Neverwinter Nights 2... if you got through that one, you're probably o.k. with the controls by the time you hit Mask ofThe Betrayer. If you bailed out of NW2 because of the controls... know that this on is the same.
I bought nwn2 and loved it, unfortunately for whatever reason is was almost unplayable for me because of crashes so I didn't get far. I'd love for a remastered version to come along.
You mean the entire game or just this expansion pack? There's a complete edition out there with all expansions and last time I checked it was fairly inexpensive on GoG.
Neverwinter Vault has Skywing's "NWN2 Client Extension" it has been known to solve some crashes before. Forcing the game into windowed mode Alt+Enter sometimes works also.
I played through all the NWN2 main campaign and it was good, but I've tried many times playing MotB and just found it ridiculously difficult. Can't progress through the game because I'm obliterated in the fight in the theatre. Tried many builds, same result.
In that case, for the sake of experiencing the story elements, it might be worth your time throwing in a few mods/cheats massively ease or fully trivialise the fights?
I honestly got bored playing MotB and was relieved when it was over lol. Though at the time it could have been because I was playing through nearly all NWN 1&2 campaigns. I think I enjoyed Zehier more lol. I will play it against down the road and see if it was better a second time.
I love neverwinter 2, however I am picky about Obsidian games. On one hand you get one of the best story driven , immersive and atmospheric rpgs ever made. Complete with a diverse group of characters and obsidian excels at this. The awesome and better party mechanics. Never winter nights 2 is awesome even in 2022. However be warned , this is super glitch filled. Triggering waypoints that don't work sometimes and sometimes I would be walking and then all the sudden be teleported back to a certain point on the same path. Still those two things didn't happen all the time but enough that it got annoying.Then sometimes at random the performance would just tank? This also only happend a couple time's then would work like normal? Also the graphics are shit , even at the time it came out. It looks like a dreamcast game that got improved somewhat. It has steep requirements for the time so the graphics are really head scratching for me. Like I said it looks like a dreamcast combined with an original x box game combined , with some slightly better textures and lighting. That is the best way to describe them. The particle and magic effects are all cool and everything is better looking than part one so there is that. Idk if its the tool set that is included or what. the graphics are improved over the first but not by much. So my final verdict would be Graphics 5 out of 10 music and sound 7 out of 10 Gameplay and story 9.5 out of 10 Fun Factor 8 out of 10 replay value 9 out of 10 So I say a very solid 8.5 out of 10. It would have gotten a much higher rating from me but the glitch filled way points , camera and walking really can get annoying in spots and are noticeable enough to actually kill some of the immersion at times.Then the head scratching graphics to this day make me wonder why the steep requirements? If you can get past that stuff be prepared for one of the deepest and most well written rpgs ever made.
I prefer the first campaign and storm of zehir. I hate safiya/nefris/lienna/the founder, she's the reason why the curse is released on the world again. It was sealed and she just had to remove the seal and give the curse to someone to start the bs all over again when she could've simply done her research without dooming the world I make sure to kill her on every playthrough. The spirit eater mechanic is a huge chore especially if you want to take the evil route. But it's not bad I just don't like its story like the other 2
Thanks for bring this up. I panned the audio differently from previous videos. Another commenter who used to have issues with previous videos doesn't now. But now, you seem to have problems. Use headphones... can't go wrong with those.
The worse part of the expansion is that it is bookend by the Meh original campaign that will turn off a lot of players (especially today as it's UI and mechanics are so bad by the standards of 15 years ago and even worse compared to games made today) and it is followed by a top contender for the worse expansion ever made. I never had fond memories for Obsidian because i know they create a lot of shite and yet this expansion is a jewel that stands out.
@@Flakzor123 & @Michael Michaelson Games are subjective. If you chaps find the OC great i am not going to say you are wrong. There is no right or wrong about subjective media. I have played through the OC three times to play the Expansion multiple times. I can't remember most of the OC because I, key word I, find it meh. Not bad but certainly not good let alone great. But those are my own experience which do not validate nor invalidate anyone else's experience with the media.
All Games and Expansions you are covering here are beeter than "Baldur's Gate 3", i tested it and for me it's not even close to the Baldur's Gate franchise, OK it's turn based, it's OK thats DnD but it feels and looks like a Divinity Original Sin clone, Divinity is Okay I think but not more. I live all NV2 Expansions, but I struggled at the beginning with the Hunger system
I've been wanting to ask you. Did you have sound issues with this review? Did you use speakers or headphones? I tweaked audio a bit with this one and the last one, but I have no way of monitoring it with speakers.
Heyo, everything thing fine, I tried with headphones and speakers and no issues 😁 Very good video, I am looking forward for your BG3 review what you are thinking.
Lol, no. It's shit. They killed off Elanee and Casavir for literally 0 reason at all and didn't allow you to continue your romance with them, then they shoehorned Safiya in (?). If they had allowed you to continue your romance with Elanee - maybe, the boneheaded way they handled old companions from the original campaign? Nah.
George Ziets (creative director for Neverwinter Nights 2) said on Twitter that it is conceivable someone found and saved Elanee. The very nature of Dungeons & Dragons means that you can make your own interpretation of what happened after the games ending.
You can always say you are with someone to Safiya or Gann and I think the ending cutscene in the perfect ending will say you get together again. Not sure if that requires a mod however. Though Neeshka always survives I think.
You're right, Mass effect 3 was not ruined by it's ending it was garbage all the way through it's just that ending was worse then the rest of the game.
ME3's ending never bothered me. Maybe if I beat it several times I'd've been frustrated with the lack of options... but I never beat it several times. I think just the once; the reason I've beaten ME1 and ME2 countless times and ME3 only once, the reason ME3 is such a letdown IMO, is probably because for whatever reason the main villain in ME3 is Cerberus, and I just don't give a shit about weak-ass Cerberus. They're not a threat anymore... why do I encounter them so much? Fuck off. The Reapers should've been the main villain of ME3. ALSO... I get why your companions in ME1 and ME2 were so different - with ME2's "suicide mission" they wanted to hold back some characters from ME1 so they wouldn't be exposed to that danger (I love ME2, but the "suicide mission" is pathetic; you HAVE TO lose a squadmate in ME1, and you can lose a 2nd if you fuck up; ME2 makes it virtually impossible to lose anybody except for the bugged encounter with Miranda/Jack), but in ME3 they don't allow you to spend any time with anybody you romanced unless you romanced Liara. Ashley spends the bulk of her time recuperating at the Citadel, Miranda has a cameo, Jack has a cameo... wtf? I still don't understand why ME LE didn't fix those 2 glaring issues rather than breaking combat in ME1.
I put Mask of the Betrayer up there together with Planescape Torment and Disco Elysium as 3 best written RPGs to date.
Disco isnt really an rpg, more of a point and click adventure game
@@Revanchist so Disco Elysium is not a Roleplaying Game iyo?
MOTB was the expansion pack that got me interested in developing the Realms of Trinity. Without it, I never would have been interested in doing so. Mechanically, and core engine features for developers were through the roof over the OG. Since then, thanks to the community, there is tons of new fixes for the engine and content that can be used to build very robust content. Heck, were still live and doing well of being up for 13+ years. I cannot say enough about what Obsidian and Bioware have done for the community. I had the opportunity of interviewing Feargus Urquhart, CEO of Obisidian, back in 2013, and the vision he had for NWN2 was epic, and they had epic challenges to get done what they did..
Realms of Trinity? Could you tell me what your project is about?
Nwn 2 is a classic rpg storywise.
Meet some friends, do some side quests, get the sword, kill the evil thing at the end. It's about the people you meet and how you rise to power.
MotB though is an rpg that has an impact on a cosmic scale. If the rules of the universe and the gods are wrong, then what do you do? Change them? Save yourself? Become something that even the gods fear? I love the nwn2 series, thank you for this video
Mask was so so so special that I never managed to figure out how did the main title suck so bad in the comparison.
Also, it oozes forgotten realms lore which is always great
Yes, the core game and the expansion are world's apart. That's why Mask of the Betrayer shares the top spot in today's video.
I really enjoyed Mask of the Betrayer. Safiya wasn't just a "my culture doth protest" trope or token evil companion, but one with complex motivations unrelated to being a Red Wizard of Thay. Indeed, she had great potential to be either heroic or villainous all dependent on the player. Likewise, Gann could continue to be the misanthrope out to just cheese everyone or become a more reliable and dependable person despite his chaotic nature.
As to the story, in addition to it covering the four Greek Loves, it also touched very much on the nature of faith and existentialism. Indeed, the whole conversion with Myrkul (especially if your wisdom and intelligence is high enough to get the extra dialogue options) comes out as something akin to a Nietzschean/Kantian discussion on the nature of spiritualism. That along with Obsidian's Planescape: Torment was able to create compelling stories based on deep thought topics that philosophers have grappled with throughout the ages. And they did it in a way that was not as preachy and in your face as many of the games, movies, and "entertainment" we find today.
Mask of the Betrayer is the main reason to buy Neverwinter Night 2
I concur!
@Seed More I agree, but people don't like NWN for it's characters or it's plot(both are really bad), people like it for it's tools set and great modules. And I agree on spiritual sucessor part, but this comparison is strange, Dragon Age just like others more modern RPGs abandon many important part of older games in favor of accessibility, it doesn't try to be Baldur's Gate.
this expansion is so much better then the original game. And is one of the very best pieces of DnD. Its even better than BG2 in lot of aspects.
i played NWN2 so much, this just makes my day! what a channel!
And this my friend... is the highlight of my week. (And I'm not even kidding). Thanks.
I love Neverwinter Nights 2 and ALL of its expansions! It was my first REAL dungeons and dragons RPG i had ever played, my first game with adult themes in it, first romance in a game, first everything really! I remember playing it nonstop as a kid in middle school, and have been playing it again recently since COVID. It is a truly great game!
MOTB has much better storyline than original NWM2 and one of best in RPG, It's not classic from zero to hero (although we all love it) but it's more closer to Planescape Torment which is the best game story line ever.
I think at the end, if the player accept the curse and master it. He becom one of the most strong creature in the multiverse. Even Kelemvor admit his inferiority, and threaten to fight the player with all he have if he dont leave the Fugue Plane. As a player that accepted to becom a God in the Baldurs Gate serie (though when i learn later what happen to Iyatchu Xvim, maybe it was not a good idea...). Learned the True name of Mephistiopheles in Horde of the Underdark, and turned him to my servant. I enjoyed becoming a incarnation of the Void in Mask of the Betrayer.
Ascending to godhood isn't all fun and games
@@LightStreak567 godhood is like a private club, if you are not invited you will get frown upon by the other. I enjoy much more the alternate course thatbtake you beyond that, like what you can achiev in horde of underdark or mask of betrayer
So much found memories.Thanks for your good work !
Thanks my man!
Plus there is effectively two games interlaced together, but unless I missed it that wasn't mentioned. It branches when you face the Great Bear. Consume the bear and you go down the evil path, get One of Many and destroy the forest. Supress the spirit eater, get the bear and you work to save the forest. It then branches again when you reach the City of the Dead - defend or save while good and defend or save while evil. Choices, choices.
Perhaps what I meant is that you don't go to different locations or meet different characters with your decisions as you do in some other games. But yes, choices are very impactful. There's also restoring the Wood man or devouring his soul. It's a nice little pack of great story, choices and good combat. Everything I want in an RPG.
@@YeOldEntertainment I've played almost all the combos over the years. I usually play supress even if an Evil character simply because OoM annoys me (especially if you let him eat the dead god). Only one I haven't played is the "betray everyone" version because, as you say, being a quality RPG, you get attached to them and so I didn't want to kill all my companions just to get a necklace.
@@robd9413 Same here. I find the curse is more trouble that what it is worth. Even assuming you executed spirit eating with perfect timing, it is still limited by the total number of critters on a particular map and within the campaign. The payout to me is meh.
Agreed. Masked of is massively overlooked.
Шикарная дополнение с чертовски мрачной атмосферой. А диалог с Миркулом буквально одна из немногих вещей в играх в целом, которая вызывает мурашки!
Но оригинальная компания с её компаньонами все равно роднее и ближе к сердцу =)
Неее, мне MotB гораздо больше понравился. Оригинальная кампания уж слишком… обычная что-ли. Даж в НВН1 имхо лучше была. А тут: и эпик тебе и не банальные компаньоны и сюжет и философская составляющая. Шикарная игра
BEST. FUCKING. EXPANSION. EVER. Amen!
Why didn't you metnion One of Many or Kaelyn the Dove?
I just wanted to make the point that characters are well written because they have goals, purpose, obstacles and all of these elements are woven into the fabric of their journey alongside the main character. I didn't feel like I needed to mention every character. Besides I like Kaelyn a little bit less than the others.
@@YeOldEntertainment that's fair, it just surprised me to not even hear them mentioned at all. Particularly One of Many who to me was one of the more interesting characters in gaming.
Just fyi, elementals also count as spirits. Once you know this, summoning a bunch of them around you and hitting suppression, a few times, means no more problems with spirit meter. If you don't want to play as the devourer.
All hail the knight-captain!
haha! nice keep night captain!
Kalach-cha!
between BG2 and this game was the good ol times indeed
Nice to hear about another thing Obsidian has done well bc I love PIllars but have never played this. Hope they bring this type of talent to Avowed
I've played NWN2 for over a decade and never played this campaign. Maybe need to fix that.
must do !
You will not regret it.
6:07 You don't know that! You don't know me! (Furiously throws towel over monitor revealing an all physical party with two ranged units)
Hahaha. Cheeser detected.
I adored this expansion. After the fairly vanilla NWN2 campaign that ended in a WTF “Rocks Fall, Everybody Dies” ending, Mask of the Betrayer was a breath of fresh air.
Spoiler
I think my only real complaint (but is also an “okay, that’s fair…” moment) is that towards the end of the game you can pretty much go in to a “Rip Roaring Rampage of Revenge”. You’re a level 30ish character, empowered by the spirit eater, arriving at the gates of the Plane of the Dead, determined to tear down the Wall of the Faithless, only for Kelemvor to laugh at you and go “No!”
On one hand, it’s disappointingly don’t get to follow through on that, on the other, having even a spirit eater empowered mortal being able to challenge Kelemvor in his own realm is a bit much :P
But otherwise, it is a great expansion.
Level 30 char in dnd is not a mortal
@@marinmiljkovic9737 Sorry, but no. You are still very much mortal. You have powers and abilities well beyond other mortals, some even world changing in the case of casters, but you are not immortal. You can still die of old age, you can still die to a well placed dagger while you sleep. Sure you might have the power to defeat the Elemental Princes, challenge Demi-gods, and even make some lesser deities think twice about facing you in combat, but that doesn’t make you a god yourself.
You are not divine, you don’t have an Avatar that acts for you on the Prime Material Planes. You are just an insanely powerful mortal being, and despite your power, the vast majority of gods can just laugh at you and say “No” when you try to directly challenge them, especially if your are on their home turf.
@@LMoftheCoast dying of old age is the easiest, there are hundreds of ways to.not die from.old age in dnd, any lev 30 char could easily have one. Although you may not have a divinty rank it is easy to challange demigods past lev 20. And all gods can also die with regards to a well placed dagger. Kudos
On the difficulty: If you play a buffing Wizard, in my experience at least, the difficulty is pretty manageable. Also, I love telling Kelemvor that I'll be back.
Honestly one of the best RPGs ever. Right up there with Planescape: Torment in terms of creativity and story. It's a pity it is an expansion. You can play it on its own, but then you have that cognitive dissonance where your character starts at legendary level - something that I have difficulty with. Unfortunately, the alternative is to play through the main campaign of NWN2, which is okay but not great - definitely forgettable. On the plus side, Mask of the Betrayer makes more sense if you've played the original campaign, since it is designed to be the follow up, and some of your companions from the original campaign turn up in MotB. Overall though, if you don't feel like playing many hours through a lacklustre campaign, don't bother. Mask of the Betrayer is definitely worth playing, so don't let the fact that is an expansion put you off.
I played through the NWN2 campaign and then Mask of the Betrayer over 10 years ago. I can only remember 2-3 parts of the original campaign, but I can remember ALL of MotB. I went the good route, where I refused to feed, and it made the game very difficult, very tense (because you are literally dying, so everything is timed), and ultimately very rewarding.
I think the learning curve is much too steep to just jump into MOTB. Besides, as you say, there are things from the original that are tied into this one. Fortunately the core game is decent enough to play as a "warmup".
Highly recommended! Unfortunately MOTB makes it difficult to play other “story” based RPGs because it’s a difficult bar to reach. It’s so good I replayed a good section of the end game just to get a better ending as I missed some stuff and didn’t like how it ended. I rarely do that, but it was so good I wanted the best possible experience. I agree, the academy was the weakest section, annoying tedious puzzle and fetch quests, but beyond that the game is a fantastic expansion. I found the spirit meter was much easier to manager if you got the “eternal rest” ability in the death god’s vault in a conversation. That way you can feed on undead spirits without taking a hit to your “good” reputation. You also can use “ suppress hunger” once a day to control your meter. Some don’t like him, but Okku is awesome, I don’t care what anyone says haha.
My thoughts exactly. MOTB knocked that thing out of the park and there haven't been any D&D games (that I know of) and very few RPGs that have managed to achieve this level of narrative. As for Okku. There are some people who don't like him? how? He has very solid motivations to antagonize you at first and then he has very strong reasons to join you, not to mention a strong character arc and good voice acting. I the PC had more interactions with him, and he's rather slim on the personality quirks department, but he's amazing. He's also an abso-freaking-lutely awesome tank. Maybe even the best.
@@YeOldEntertainment Oh some people on the Internets complain that he's boring, or too one-dimensional. I loved him, sure he's not as quirky as Gann, but he's a loyal and great companion. He's one of the reasons why I replayed the end-game, I didn't like Okku's fate in my original ending. So i went back and made sure I completed everything (got all the mask pieces) and his ending was way better. I rarely do that, shows you how good of a job they did on the character if it affected my gameplay that much.
When you said Sunday at the start of the video I freaked out, though I had lost track of the week.
Sorry! it was originally planned for tomorrow!
On all my replays, I used console commands to turn off the spirit eater mechanism..
I think this is one of the best rpgs ever made. It's a shame the lore hasn't really been developed in novels or other video games. I had a blast playing this with my agility based fighter rogue hybrid. Combat never really seemed too much for me though. Thanks for the review.
It absolutely is on the best RPGs of all time.
Hordes of Underdark can go toe to toe with it
If I play NWN this year I'll tell you all about it. :) Thanks for leaving a comment!
@@YeOldEntertainment Oh okay, nice :)
HOTU is excellent!
@@YeOldEntertainment Personally, I think that HotU is not *quite* as good as MotB in terms of story, but better in terms of engine-playability, and 'graphics feel', even if the polygon count is much lower.
If you are going to try ow NWN1, I strongly recommend you skip NWN's OC as it is very very boring, and start with the first expansion Shadows of Undrentide, 'cuz it's really good. Not on the tier of HotU, and absolutely not on the level of MotB, but... good.
HofU is technically a direct sequel to SoU, but there isn't any carry over in terms of choices, just a few references made in the first chapter and a(n amazing) shared npc.
Yeah, there couldn't possibly be dwarves in taverns drinking after a day of travel.
I picked up kaylen before the bettal
Obsidian level of story .... also the original game is great as well, despite its flaws
Hey. I just found your channel today and watched a few (and a few more) of your vids. Why do you have so few subs? Your material is worth at the very least a hundred times that!
Please. By all means, continue making content.
Wow, thanks mate! Guess I'm underground! XD.
Next time I have the occasion, I'll raise a glass to you getting more of the limelight then.
Also, have you considered setting up a Discord yet? It could become a self-driving community and improve your connection with the fans (or not, depending on your stance ad time spent on it).
This one is very easy to agree with, so much better than even the OG campaign
MOTB had a great story, but I do not really like epic level D&D very much, so I was not big on the combat and character progression side of things.
I understand. I might be strongly biased since I am first and foremost a story guy. But I also enjoyed the combat. It's especially interesting if you see it as continuation of the core game.
That title. You're goddamn right.
Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal was an expansion. Check-mate.
Thanks for the review, i agree wholeheartedly.
Thank you for watching and leaving a comment, mate.
I haven't played the Safyia romance, but the Gann one never struck me as all that forced. Probably because of all the dream sequences that are just the two of you. ;-)
But is it playable with nwn2 junky controls?
Well... there was a 60 hour tutorial called Neverwinter Nights 2... if you got through that one, you're probably o.k. with the controls by the time you hit Mask ofThe Betrayer. If you bailed out of NW2 because of the controls... know that this on is the same.
Does this have co-op?
If you don't cooperate with the Spirit Eater, he kills you. other than that... no, I don't think so.
Randomly watching this video on a sunday and never felt so seen rofl.
Yes, MotB is a masterpiece.
I bought nwn2 and loved it, unfortunately for whatever reason is was almost unplayable for me because of crashes so I didn't get far. I'd love for a remastered version to come along.
You mean the entire game or just this expansion pack? There's a complete edition out there with all expansions and last time I checked it was fairly inexpensive on GoG.
Neverwinter Vault has Skywing's "NWN2 Client Extension" it has been known to solve some crashes before. Forcing the game into windowed mode Alt+Enter sometimes works also.
I played through all the NWN2 main campaign and it was good, but I've tried many times playing MotB and just found it ridiculously difficult. Can't progress through the game because I'm obliterated in the fight in the theatre. Tried many builds, same result.
In that case, for the sake of experiencing the story elements, it might be worth your time throwing in a few mods/cheats massively ease or fully trivialise the fights?
Try a sorcerer, with the right choice of spells nothing can resist you
But it’s Saturday?
True. Come back tomorrow. It'll surely be fixed by then XD. (Yeah, it was meant to come out tomorrow, sorry about that.
@@YeOldEntertainment hahahah scared me for a minute! Thought the weekend was over!
Hordes of Underdark has to be the best, this one goes right after it.
Is this game on steam?
Yes. There's actually a newer version that's Neverwinter Night 2 complete which includes all expansions.
@@YeOldEntertainment Actually, this game is not on steam. The complete edition is available on GOG though.
it really is, amazing game!
I honestly got bored playing MotB and was relieved when it was over lol. Though at the time it could have been because I was playing through nearly all NWN 1&2 campaigns. I think I enjoyed Zehier more lol. I will play it against down the road and see if it was better a second time.
Weirdo 😅
Never beat nwn2 due to how janky everything felt,
It was like eating knockoff cereal.
I love neverwinter 2, however I am picky about Obsidian games.
On one hand you get one of the best story driven , immersive and atmospheric rpgs ever made. Complete with a diverse group of characters and obsidian excels at this. The awesome and better party mechanics. Never winter nights 2 is awesome even in 2022.
However be warned , this is super glitch filled. Triggering waypoints that don't work sometimes and sometimes I would be walking and then all the sudden be teleported back to a certain point on the same path. Still those two things didn't happen all the time but enough that it got annoying.Then sometimes at random the performance would just tank? This also only happend a couple time's then would work like normal?
Also the graphics are shit , even at the time it came out. It looks like a dreamcast game that got improved somewhat. It has steep requirements for the time so the graphics are really head scratching for me. Like I said it looks like a dreamcast combined with an original x box game combined , with some slightly better textures and lighting. That is the best way to describe them. The particle and magic effects are all cool and everything is better looking than part one so there is that. Idk if its the tool set that is included or what. the graphics are improved over the first but not by much.
So my final verdict would be
Graphics 5 out of 10
music and sound 7 out of 10
Gameplay and story 9.5 out of 10
Fun Factor 8 out of 10
replay value 9 out of 10
So I say a very solid 8.5 out of 10.
It would have gotten a much higher rating from me but the glitch filled way points , camera and walking really can get annoying in spots and are noticeable enough to actually kill some of the immersion at times.Then the head scratching graphics to this day make me wonder why the steep requirements?
If you can get past that stuff be prepared for one of the deepest and most well written rpgs ever made.
So Safiya = Virgil
I prefer the first campaign and storm of zehir.
I hate safiya/nefris/lienna/the founder, she's the reason why the curse is released on the world again. It was sealed and she just had to remove the seal and give the curse to someone to start the bs all over again when she could've simply done her research without dooming the world I make sure to kill her on every playthrough.
The spirit eater mechanic is a huge chore especially if you want to take the evil route.
But it's not bad I just don't like its story like the other 2
Oh my...
Your background music maybe needs a change.Trying to focus on what your saying but music is getting In the way.
Thanks for bring this up. I panned the audio differently from previous videos. Another commenter who used to have issues with previous videos doesn't now. But now, you seem to have problems. Use headphones... can't go wrong with those.
The worse part of the expansion is that it is bookend by the Meh original campaign that will turn off a lot of players (especially today as it's UI and mechanics are so bad by the standards of 15 years ago and even worse compared to games made today) and it is followed by a top contender for the worse expansion ever made. I never had fond memories for Obsidian because i know they create a lot of shite and yet this expansion is a jewel that stands out.
I really do like the trial in the original campaign... especially if the player went with the thieves =)
The original campaign was more than awesome
@@Flakzor123 & @Michael Michaelson Games are subjective. If you chaps find the OC great i am not going to say you are wrong. There is no right or wrong about subjective media. I have played through the OC three times to play the Expansion multiple times. I can't remember most of the OC because I, key word I, find it meh. Not bad but certainly not good let alone great. But those are my own experience which do not validate nor invalidate anyone else's experience with the media.
Such a sigma grindset expansion
All Games and Expansions you are covering here are beeter than "Baldur's Gate 3", i tested it and for me it's not even close to the Baldur's Gate franchise, OK it's turn based, it's OK thats DnD but it feels and looks like a Divinity Original Sin clone, Divinity is Okay I think but not more.
I live all NV2 Expansions, but I struggled at the beginning with the Hunger system
I've been wanting to ask you. Did you have sound issues with this review? Did you use speakers or headphones? I tweaked audio a bit with this one and the last one, but I have no way of monitoring it with speakers.
Heyo, everything thing fine, I tried with headphones and speakers and no issues 😁
Very good video, I am looking forward for your BG3 review what you are thinking.
@@eddie1654 Thanks for the info, mate! Well, I haven't played it yet, but I'll be putting that one out as soon as I get it and play it.
BG1 and 2 are better than 3 imo
@@Mystra BG1 not really (there lots of empty spaces) but BG2 for sure.
Lol, no. It's shit. They killed off Elanee and Casavir for literally 0 reason at all and didn't allow you to continue your romance with them, then they shoehorned Safiya in (?). If they had allowed you to continue your romance with Elanee - maybe, the boneheaded way they handled old companions from the original campaign? Nah.
George Ziets (creative director for Neverwinter Nights 2) said on Twitter that it is conceivable someone found and saved Elanee. The very nature of Dungeons & Dragons means that you can make your own interpretation of what happened after the games ending.
You can always say you are with someone to Safiya or Gann and I think the ending cutscene in the perfect ending will say you get together again. Not sure if that requires a mod however. Though Neeshka always survives I think.
imagine having such bad taste. or you are trolling
Controversial opinions: MotB was ruined by it's ending. Mass Effect 3 was not ruined by it's ending.
You're right, Mass effect 3 was not ruined by it's ending it was garbage all the way through it's just that ending was worse then the rest of the game.
ME3's ending never bothered me. Maybe if I beat it several times I'd've been frustrated with the lack of options... but I never beat it several times. I think just the once; the reason I've beaten ME1 and ME2 countless times and ME3 only once, the reason ME3 is such a letdown IMO, is probably because for whatever reason the main villain in ME3 is Cerberus, and I just don't give a shit about weak-ass Cerberus. They're not a threat anymore... why do I encounter them so much? Fuck off.
The Reapers should've been the main villain of ME3.
ALSO... I get why your companions in ME1 and ME2 were so different - with ME2's "suicide mission" they wanted to hold back some characters from ME1 so they wouldn't be exposed to that danger (I love ME2, but the "suicide mission" is pathetic; you HAVE TO lose a squadmate in ME1, and you can lose a 2nd if you fuck up; ME2 makes it virtually impossible to lose anybody except for the bugged encounter with Miranda/Jack), but in ME3 they don't allow you to spend any time with anybody you romanced unless you romanced Liara. Ashley spends the bulk of her time recuperating at the Citadel, Miranda has a cameo, Jack has a cameo... wtf?
I still don't understand why ME LE didn't fix those 2 glaring issues rather than breaking combat in ME1.