The Infamous Story Of The Failed Reddit Dragon MMO
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2022
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For the longest time, the phrase 'science-based, 100% dragon MMO' has lived in my head rent free. It originates from a post to the r/gaming subreddit made all the way back in 2012, which quickly rose to viral popularity for it's overambitious scope, rudimentary art and silly premise. And that's where I thought the story ended... until I took a deeper look into the post and uncovered it's Deep Lore. Today let's take a look at the true story behind the Reddit dragon MMO with game plans, rarely seen concept art, and even a long-buried website.
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The part about not regretting what they had done is a pretty powerful idea for creatives. You won't finish every project, they won't all be successes even if you finish. But to look back and be fulfilled with what you have done and even grow from it is a lesson we all can learn.
people are dunking on this person for being wildly overambitious but like,,, drawing hundreds of dragon races with an evolutionary tree for an MMO that never came out is also cool as fuck. More people should be proud of their ridiculously overcomplicated projects that they did loads of work on and then nothing came of it.
Same, my ex-husband, who is an actual employed game developer, had promised to help me make a game I wanted. So because I figured he knew what he was doing, it seemed like a realistic achievement to me. I never had any interest in learning game development, but I figured it would be a fun way for us to spend time together, doing something that combines both our interests.
Like this woman, I started to research a bunch of stuff I'd need to make the game as realistic as possible. I eventually gave up on the project once I realized that he had no intention of actually helping me make the game, (he was planning on using it to "lure" me into learning game development, so he could then make me help him with his own indie game), but I still don't regret the time I spent learning things.
I ended up learning how to use blender at a level I was genuinely happy with. He wasn't happy with my creations of course, because he wanted me to learn to make models that were on par with modern industry standards, (and refused to help me put the models into the game until I made "better ones,") whereas I just wanted something for myself. I had no intention of competing with professionals. (Plus, I wanted to get some basic gameplay working first, so I could see if it would even work at all, before wasting my time on details like better graphics.)
I learned to set up a system in Unreal Engine to layer coat textures in a genetically accurate way, for which I had to research coat color genetics. Spending so much time figuring out how to make it work, turned out to be a great strategy for remembering how the genetics work in real life, so even though I've barely used the knowledge in years, I can still remember it. (I don't remember how to actually make it work in the engine, because I was never interested in the game development aspect in the first place. But I do remember how genetics work.)
Once I realized he was never going to help me code an AI in Unreal Engine, I switched to a different program that had easier tutorials, where I was proudly able to get some basic functions working. (I had the dogs following treats, I had obstacles with functional collision boxes, I had stats that were able to increase and decrease, etc. Overall, way more than I ever would have expected to achieve on my own.) Unfortunately, I ended up accidentally saving a different file over it, and losing all my work. Trying to recreate it would have been way more work than it was worth, so that was the end of that.
I still use my knowledge of Blender every now and then, to make speculative evolution models for my thought experiments. I have no interest in becoming "better" at it though, when my current knowledge is already enough to serve my needs.
@@duffman18 I do have an interest in speculative evolution, but this seems pretty messed up lol. I wouldn't call it speculative evolution. Aliens modifying genes isn't evolution, and I'm sure we can agree that this isn't likely to happen (so no real speculation). It sounds like just a fantasy story, which can be fun as well.
Why I love Millennium Actress so much. Whole point is that it's okay if you never perfectly achieve your dream in any art form; the joy of creation is its own reward
Grand ambitions are awesome. How in the world will you ever break new ground if you don't push the boundaries of what's possible? No reason to regret being an overachiever, y'all.
Honestly, if the original artist ever wanted to, she could just release all of this material for tabletop rules and it would make an awesome TRPG. Can you imagine this as basically a dungeon masters guide? It's a perfect fit, even with all of the weird minerals, astronomy, and everything, it would just go into the world
omg yes! I didn't make this connection watching the video but seeing your comment - you're 100% right, it would be awesome
i would eat that shit uppppp
Now, THAT's a good thought. The problem with doing this as a computer game is building all the models and writing the software.
Holy shit you're a genius
I would totally play that! But it did exist back in the 90's for D&D as the Council of Wyrms setting for the second edition
What I respect about the creator is not having any regrets about just making it to the concept art stage. A lot of people who've tried to make games I've met keep whining about how all their projects fail, but this one just admits "Yeah, I'm aware that what I'm making is extremely ambitious, but I gave a crack at it anyway."
Big mood. I should do more concept art for my funny lil steel mill game. 🤔
I'm so sorry to OP for getting bullied so hard and while it is true this probably wouldn't have done too well as a game, I could see it being a fantastic book or graphic novel. I loved every second of the development, the colors, the art, the detail. I'm a very detail-oriented person so I love seeing people get super into projects like this. I hope OP is doing well and doing just as much research into whatever project they chose next
that is my thought too. if i were there when this post was first made, i honestly might ask if she'd ever want to adapt her concepts into a different medium.
It was 2010 Reddit they hated everyone and anything creative back then
I’m getting browser based mmo vibes like Flight Rising and Lioden
3D modeler here, her stuff is actually really friggen good!! Great sense of anatomy and style! Couldn’t be used in game as-is due to the high poly count, but that’s usually how these game models start out; nice high poly model that gets retopologized into something manageable for the game, and then you transfer all those great details to the low poly model. I really hope she keeps at it, these are gorgeous.
Ya exactly, baking in the tiny detail as bumpmapping
Oooo I didn't know that modelers made a higher poly model first. That's really interesting!
just yeet it into ue5 it'll cope somehow
@@alyti lol, I'm pretty sure that's a good way to melt a computer
yeah they are good.
My sincere hope for this person is that she put this dragon stuff in a portfolio & got a job as a concept artist somewhere. There’s so many talented artists out there held back by hyper-focusing on big projects they can’t reasonably complete at that point.
I felt kinda similar and my adhd brain wouldn't let it go, so I did some (unnecessarily intense) sleuthing, and followed their trace through a link on deviantart, a chain of dead tumblr accounts and twitter to a patreon, and it seems like the reddit OP is doing (mostly nsfw) furry art under the name "Thorso" now. So, well. Not many dragons, sadly.
They also made a webcomic called "sublunary" at some point. It's crazy how much stuff people make that just kinda… lingers on the internet, until the site either goes down or someone deletes it or something.
I agree, it's some extremely impressive amount of work. What a shame this game hasn't seen the light of day.
@@kuddlykraken2157 It realistically wasn't gonna see the light of day, not when her aim was to make an MMO of all things. I don't think a lot of people realize just how much time, effort, and money it takes to create an MMO, probably because a lot of the MMO's that already exist look cheap on the surface(but are far from it on beneath the surface). Making 3D games is a really difficult thing to do to begin with, especially one with as much detail as the one the artist in the video was trying to make.
I wouldnt really shame people for having passion projects. Its good to know when to quit but passion projects are good to have and focus on. Not to mention things like this that are absolutely hyper-focused on are normally made by neurodivergent people since we're more likely to hyperfixate and obsess over said projects. Its okay to have a big project you're passionate about, even if it'll never see the light of day. It can be fun to work on anyways, and doesn't have to hold you back. You can have a job and just work on that in your spare time.
I feel like Reddit was Reddit regarding this. The OP was genuinely excited and happy about this and the fact that everyone largely trashed and mocked her was just...sad.
That concept art is all actually impressive, for what seems like a project that is just the brainchild of one person.
I am pretty baffled that they chose to lead the post with that image that was like the worst one they had developed.
They seem like a very nice and polite person and they put so much work into designs and models. I think this would be better as an art project.
It would be amazing in her portfolio when applying to animate/design/render somewhere else.
yeah, an artbook would actually be a perfect medium. really, the drawn concept art looks like something of a pretty solid substance.
it would've been an amazing single player game as well, she could've added a multiplayer feature as well, since, if I recall multiplayer isn't as hard to manage as an MMO
I love how refreshingly low stakes this is. No one got scammed. No one got their life ruined. Just a nice art project. I hope she's doing all right.
According to a reply to a comment around here they're doing furry r34 stuff now under a new name...which was certainly a rollercoaster to read after this wholesome video
@@zeethenecromancer Sincerely, good for them.
@@zeethenecromancer not really. sex is a part of life afterall
@@Viteaification No I'm not saying to be condescending, I'm saying that when I read that comment it gave me whiplash and I nearly spit out my drink
@@zeethenecromancer the dragon sex game to furry r34 pipeline 😂
if that comment is right, i'm glad they're doing well^^
as someone who really likes speculative biology the idea of this is really appealing to me (the concept of splitting tetrapods based on how they adapt one of the three pairs of limbs is really interesting, as is having three pairs of limbs at all) and the art is really good too. but yea i can see how it was far far too ambitious. the game overall did remind me of spore too and i would have LOVED to play this
also ive always pronounced imgur in my mind with a g like in "good". never considered any other pronunciation
Honestly, this would've been a great speculative biology project. OP could have kept posting their dragon designs with lore and explanation as to how they evolve/survive, and it would've been a neat, if niche, work. There are plenty of speculative biology works these days, some even covering dragons, and they seem to be quite popular with certain people. OP could've kept the scope small and realistic, maybe as a personal art/worldbuilding project or even a homebrew module to be used in a DnD campaign or something similar. Insisting that it should be a game, an MMO no less, was where OP sadly flew too close to the sun.
@@TheFunwichHorror I'm not sure this would make a great ttrpg due to the amount of time spent just evolving things, but it could definitely work as something like Doodle God, or even as a complicated niche board game.
I mean, with all the effort OP put into the world building I feel like he could have even just published a book of some kind. Like “A Guide To Draconia” or something
I dunno. I loved those kind of books as a kid. Anyone else here read “A Practical Guide To Dragon Riding”?
I've always thought imgur was said like "image-er"
yo my comment blew up somehow i was not expecting this
and yeah id love to read a specbio project like this too like serina or hamsters paradise etc
Honestly, I respect the creator's attitude towards the whole thing. She focused on the journey and not the destination. I hope she got some good creative lessons from the project, put all this in a portfolio and went on to work on something else professionally.
28:00
This right here is why I'm even watching this video, and why I felt a little sad for OP the whole time while learning about this. What you're saying isn't pretentious at all; the motive for these creators is so pure, I can't help but admire it.
For a short while, they lived a beautiful dream... and it's ok that they didn't finish it - their life continues, and so does their growth from the project.
Wherever OP is today, I hope she's doing well and is using her artistic talent to its fullest, whether that be for a job in a creative industry or as just a hobby
I kinda want to know who she is so I can find her online, maybe give her a follow if she's still posting art
@@grezgu Huh... if you're for real, I can see it. She's got talent for drawing dragons, so she's probably making bank drawing anthro dragons. No judgement on her if you're telling the truth
@@RhiannonSmudge what did the reply say? They deleted their comment...I think?
@@yardantosemito5024 A suggestion that they might be under a different username drawing nsfw furry art
I don't remember the username they suggested nor could I find their profile via a quick Google search, so no idea if they were telling the truth.
Though I can see it, furry art can pay pretty damn well
@@RhiannonSmudge not my place to judge on that but oh well they can do what they want.
@@RhiannonSmudge yeah, it’s not my cup of tea but if you find your core base, you can make a shocking amount of money out of furry art. If that’s what she’s up to, more power to her, she could take in thousands a month out of it.
I can understand why she never finished her game project. She had some amazing concepts going on. She could have took a lot of those ideas and made a graphic novel out of it.
Exactly, she clearly loves worldbuilding. She should’ve started this out as a worldbuilding project as the way things evolve and how everything comes together seems really interesting to her.
And she's certainly got 3d modelling talent as seen from some of the dragons
Or a TTRPG
I feel so sad that this person got roasted this hard on Reddit for chasing a wonderful pipe dream. The value of projects like these isn't in seeing them finished - it's in the joy of doing it at all.
Myself, I've been toiling away at a worldbuilding project that has gotten way out of hand and will never amount to anything marketable (because no one wants to see worlds without any *story* happening inside them). It's been in the works for years on-and-off between my other obligations, and I still enjoy doing it.
I can really mega-appreciate the Dragon Bloodline creator's landscape art, actually. These mountain valleys look like places I'd like to get lost in in my dreams.
Fuck Reddit.
hey do you wanna tell me about your project?
i've been creating characters for as long as i can remember. i probably won't do anything marketable with most of them, but that's not the point! i make art for myself! my mary sues and i are having a great time, regardless of how anyone else might feel
A Dungeons and Dragons homebrew manual would 100% work with that. Pure worldbuilding, then add basic mechanics, sell that and let people run with the concept.
She didn't get roasted though? Most of the comments were just people who recognized her over ambition and tried to direct the woman from burning herself out by biting off more than she could chew.
Yeah, I don't know why I make illustrations other than for the joy of making them. I have a degree and masters but any attempts to monetize my drawings I have shied away from because it takes the joy out of it and opens my work up to being judged.
The way you carry the weight of archiving 2010s deviantArt dragon history is genuinely awe-inspiring. Thank you for the work you do!
I'm definitely maining Arctic, since I love tanking. Expect me to roll up with a lore-compliant name and elaborate backstory in a perpetual refinement as I learn more about the game world, too.
Yooo catch me taunting all the adds so my team mates don't get hurt, fucking worth it
"Elaborate backstory in perpetual refinement", you didn't have to call me out like this, mate
Immunity to one of the most annoying biomes in video games? Likely ice based powers that slow foes? Sounds like my class to me.
id take the swamp thing, i’m edgy
I'm always a DPH guy, seeking the thrill of precise, planned one-hit kills (or get one hit killed), I'd probably min-max a glass-cannon swamp build, thx for your tanking.
Now we need two healers... One keeping your HP topped like an IV line and one keeps me from ded like a defib.
Izzzyzz never fails to create a new unique look for each video
25% of why I watch her is seeing whatever she'll look like next
I want to dye my hair like that it's super cool
It's impressive
It’s one of my favorite things about her videos. I love it when RUclipsrs go the extra mile to do stuff like that, it shows that they enjoy what they do.
Im convinced shes a shapeshifter
Oh god when you showed the actual "hidden lore" artwork that the OP had made for the game my first reaction for some reason was to want to cry, like, those are genuinely beautiful drawings and i'd hate for something I made that was actually not a bad idea get remembered as a cringe meme because of a poor image choice for a post. it's obviously much too complicated of a game to be made into an mmo, especially with all of the attention to miniscule details, but still I can imagine this getting a completely different response if a different picture had been chosen for the initial post. it's nice that the artist doesn't seem to feel much regret about it though. this video turned out to be much more wholesome for me than I had thought when I clicked on it at first
I feel like there was so much put into this, it's a shame it all seemingly went to waste. She should definitely dig this stuff up and do another project with them - like one of those fictional biology type books, that seems to be exactly up her alley. Imagine what a cool gift it could be for the sci-fi/fantasy nerd in your life.
This was a really interesting and amusing video idea. My overriding feeling when you found all the other (actually good) artwork is why, why, why she chose the worst image imaginable for her reddit post lol. And that if she stuck to her original idea of making this a small mobile game, (sans the endless atomic-level detail she clearly got hopelessly lost in), it could have worked and even gotten her a Kickstarter going. Especially if she partnered with someone to do most of the actual coding while she focused on artwork and gameplay. I wonder what became of her?
There was a Flash game (RIP) I used to play called Seed that revolved around cross-breeding and genetically altering plants and it was extremely simple but endlessly fun and lowkey if OP had stuck to the iPhone genetics app idea and not gotten lost in the minutia of it I think it could have turned into a similar game
"What became of her?"
Married mother, probably?
@@amoureux6502 bro i remember that!!! i miss those old flash games
When I was 13-15 I swore I was gonna make a warrior cats MMO. I still have images of old models and maps stuffed away somewhere but oh my god, the overview was so in depth. For whatever reason I thought I could totally run a team on volunteer basis which consisted of even more 13-15 year olds so I'm sure you can tell how well that went. There had to be new drama between the staff team and userbase at least once a week. It was fantastic. Amazingly this did spark my interest in animation and 3D modeling and I'm currently enrolled in school for computer animation with hopes of getting into game dev again at some point either as a freelancer or contract work.
I hope you get to reach your dream!! :)
@@TrampolineLover95 Meh, WCUE has horrid devs anyhow. Besides, I’d be interested to see an *actual* MMO for Warrior cats, genuine things like hunting etc.
I'll be waiting for that cat game.
@@kiddosneakybeaky3934 yeah but its still a pretty cool game. I dont really play it because I cant get into private servers anymore
@@dancelikean1diot yeah fair,
With the concept art, the artist should have made a game similar to dungeons and dragons or even a graphic novel. They are EXTREMELY talented
Exactly what I was thinking! Seems like OP was just a worldbuilder and could have channelled that creative instinct into something more achievable, and there would be room for details about soil composition etc in a format like that
this person obviously has a lot of passion, and I hope they do something with that some day. A videogame might be too ambitious but comic/graphic novel would work well with her existing talents.
As a game art student, honestly- the idea has so much potential, the concept art is so good it's just its TOO ambitious!
most of these game concept is marketing and asset flips is the final results
a real dragon game can only go 2 ways not third way where its a second life roleplay with dragon models
the first path is a god game where whatever you do or dont impact the world
a platformer adventure dragon game thats where spyro was successful
@@Nogardtist A second-life esque roleplaying game with dragon models is very much possible. She just didn't have the resources, budget, or team to do it.
@@snazzyjovialwyrm3314 But even so, it could work great as a limited scope evolution simulator. Sort of like spore, except you experiment with cross-breeding, trait selection and stuff like that to create newer and wackier dragons with intriguing properties/abilities.
Day of Dragons is a game that started off controversially but is literally pretty much what this girl wanted to do (and you even breed! Science!!)
Fellow game artist student, I'd see it work if it wasn't an MMO, but more like a Sims kinda game if they really wanna put heavy focus on the genetics
Great video! I love hearing about failed projects, as it's part cautionary tale and part self-deprecating humor when I think back on my own projects that fell short of their lofty goals.
Regarding the breeding/evolving mechanic, DBO could've tried something like Rogue Legacy, where you carry over experience from your predecessor. But as mentioned, mating with other players would be highly problematic, and even if the mechanic was fixed, the project was far too ambitious to ever be completed.
out of context the sentence "mating with other players would be highly problematic" is so funny to me for some reason 😂
Mating with other players couldn’t be too bad, games like the Isle, Day of Dragons, Animalia, and Beasts of Bermuda do that, with things like stats and cosmetics being passed down
I hope OP is working on something she cares about right now, I would love to know what happened after all this and I hope she is doing ok. Her models are amazing and I would've loved to play this game had it actually been fully developed realistically.
I like this idea of conceptualizing something just for the fun of it. It’s like creating your ocs and world building around them without the intent of publishing them into something consumable for everyone else. It’s for yourself!!
i genuinely think projects like that are one of the purest forms of art. making something because you want to without trying to appeal to anyone else is my favorite thing. shoutout to all the 12 year olds out there with their overpowered ocs and unwritten books - your ideas and art are all real and valid, and no one else can take that away
Izzy is the living proof for 'the internet never forgets'
fact.
how do we convince izzy to download WoW dragonflight lmao
The thing I love most about Izzzyzzz's videos is how she takes such an honest and appreciative look at internet culture that other people outright dismiss and scoff at, and that makes people think "wow, maybe there's more to this than I originally thought". She's *anti-cringe.*
cringe culture is so toxic honestly. once i learned to look more into things instead of at face value, i realized that people enjoying things and not hurting me, doesn't affect me. c: i agree
embracing "cringe" honestly really affected my self-identity in the best way. relearning to embrace my interests and creations has helped me in learning to be myself without shame. i may be cringe, but i am free
Really does remind me of a project a friend of mine was working on for like their entire life alone. They made new languages, alien worlds with deep lore, by hand artwork, and entire timelines for plot and how things connect. They wrote a single book and published it and although it was good enough that they had fans for the book immediately, they even married a fan that came from Europe to meet them. No matter how much people push them though they wont write another book. They just freeze and won't do it.
As someone with a double degree in geology and video game animation, I felt my nerd heart alight at hearing how OP wanted to create her own fossil record that tells the story of the world she was creating cause I honestly think that's such a cool idea. But the amount of detail she was describing of basically creating a whole world's geological record from start to finish seemed like waaay too much detail. It would really suck to have such a cool world building detail hidden behind prerequisite sciency info for the player to understand the cards they were being dealt.
I'm always that guy who mains the unloved-but-useful class, so I'd totally be a forest dragon. Also this does get me a bit misty eyed about my own dragon-based unfinished project: a plan for a length multi-book teen fantasy saga about a girl who encounters an amnesiac dragon that can't remember the mission it's been sent to Earth on, and the two form an unlikely bond, narrowly avert the world being destroyed by the dragons, adventure to their realm, befriend this little goblin girl who works as a librarian, and so forth. I got about 4 chapters into the 1st book before giving up, but I really should get back to it someday...
that book series honestly sounds like it'd be straight up my alley!
Hey I mean, an entire mmo is a project far too ambitious but a book series is actually something one person can finish. This honestly sounds so fun, you could still write it!
Ohhh I'd love that if that were real, power of friendship !!!!
Sounds like a great book!
I would read the hell out of that!
I regret posting on Reddit about the game I was working on years ago. I wasn’t making it to sell (just for personal fun, and I was having fun with it even though relatively early into things). I have experience in writing and art, plus since I wasn’t planning to sell it I was allowed to use a lot of free assets others would have to pay for, so budget wasn’t the biggest concern. I was mostly just building the world, starting with a small town. I wasn’t planning on there being a lot of complex mechanics (though I did want to be able to swim underwater, which would’ve been the most complicated thing to do imo). I wasn’t even going to have combat. I enjoy writing, so I was going to include written clues to a story and some dialogue for the different characters you can interact with and that was basically it. Figured I could add other stuff if I wanted, but I wasn’t exactly planning something as complicated as a dragon evolution game. I knew it wouldn’t be simple, but it seemed achievable.
People on Reddit were so rude, made me feel like an idiot for thinking I could create something (even though I’d already made some pretty decent progress toward my goals now I look back on it), and they insisted nothing was going to work out as I expected and I should start by making a simple 2D pong-like game. At the time I figured they must be right and I was underestimating how difficult every single thing would become, especially since so many of them had actual experience completing games and I didn’t. I figured they assumed I was aiming for something super ambitious at first, but they maintained their opinions even after I clarified that what I was aiming for wasn’t that complex and was just for my own fun. They completely shattered my interest in that fun little artistic hobby I’d been eager to share with them. Looking back I don’t even understand why they were so harsh when I wasn’t even trying to do it professionally and made sure to emphasise it was just something I was working on for fun. They also kept saying stuff like “so who are you going to pay to do voice acting?” but I don’t think my game needed voice acting, and I couldn’t get them to stop imagining that I was aiming to create some massive Skyrim-like game.
I’m now pretty confident that what I was aiming for wasn’t really that complex at all (time-consuming, but achievable), and it was just a fun hobby for me that I’d like to get back into someday. Unfortunate that all the progress I’d made was on a now broken computer.
You really should try getting back into it!
Reddit is always so unreasonably hostile. Everything is life or death to them. I also work on artistic projects and I'm constantly terrified to share them with the internet for these very reasons.
I think you're right, though. Not all games need voice acting. Voice acting can even be a detriment, especially if it's bad. Screw the haters. Do your art projects. I admire you for trying it (as I do anyone who commits to creating something) and you should be proud of what you accomplished.
Really hope you get back all the work you did and thank you for clarifying that reddit is not somewhere to publish ideas, half finished projects or even small finished projects 🤔
Don't post anything on Reddit.
I can relate to this actually! I've been working on a full length animated movie without any help, which obviously is a quarantine born pipe dream but I'm halfway done. The only obstacle I face is that my motivation wanes sometimes so the part about things like this being the purest form of art was a much needed statement
What's it about? I wanna see it! I Love animated movies! Especially small indie ones with weird style types.
Keep at it. That's something to be proud of
@@yulemaaraya6798 omg thanks for asking!
I had my own phase of "I'm SOOO gonna become a mangaka and sell lots of my comics eeeee here are some stories and storyboard and the first few pages!" 😂🤣 But honestly? I want to revisit those concepts and maybe try to draw a short little webcomic of one because last year I had a blast entering (and failing ofc!) a webtoon contest. Even then I was doubting myself so much I procrastinated like a pro and in the end only had a week to draw everything from start to finish. I had to simplify the story, dumb down the style to chibi everything, but when I finally got into the flow of it, it was great! So yep, I might try this again, but this time not in just a week. 😆
Post grad 3D modeler here! I spent my undergrad doing 3D animations in Maya and got a multimedia degree. I wanted to say that the models for the dragons here actually look pretty good-they look structurally sound and the textures look as if they could have been made themselves to create the unique effects on the skin (like the gellified look lol). It’s hard to say definitively that they made these themselves-they could have used borrowed textures or texture techniques, but it atleast seems that they had a little bit of experience with 3D modeling. One of the big things though that is hard to tell without further evidence is whether those models will actually animate well. A lot of that has to do with smoothing your models down to a skeleton and ensuring nothing breaks or tears as you move joints, but from just looks I feel the dragons have a lot of good potential! This is all without even mentioning how your poly count and textures can effect the rendering process and slow things down but again I feel like it had good potential. Anyway, thanks for the vid!
Pipe dream project? I was really into the book series Goddess Girls (Greek gods in high school) and wanted to make a virtual kid’s website where you could go to Mount Olympus high. Literally worked out so much of it, but it’s impossible cuz I would probably just get sued by the authors haha. But it’s an idea I keep coming back to and revising in my head.
Would you want to talk to the authors to get their blessing? If it's a fan game and you're not making money from it I think you'd be fine x
That's cool! I used to like that series too. It had a good setting and characterization which would be fun to see in a video game
If you reworked it into a TTRPG, do you think you would be allowed to host it somewhere as fanfiction? I was a fan of the books so I wish you the best.
Honestly, if you detached from any specific lore from that book series, I'm sure it could have been something out of copyright territory. The idea of modern Greek gods in a high school setting sounds like something that could definitely have different and unique concepts from it instead of just that one!
omg i forgot about that series i was literally obsessed how could i erase it from my memories
I'd actually never heard of the Reddit post before, but it's interesting how many genuinely super cool ideas were involved in it. I hope OP found major success in a creative outlet in the last decade, because they have the creativity and the ambition. Well, maybe too much ambition. But the amount of genuine work that was put into the project is very impressive.
i’d 100% be a player who’d main the tropical dragon and then watch “what your fav DBO dragon says about you” videos and all of them are like “this is nobody’s favorite” or “you’re basic af” and i’d just be like damn ok (that already happens to me with a lot of fandoms)
I really hope the original creator finds this vid. As a creator myself, I know I'd be over the moon to see so much care and humor put into a video about my old project.
Dragon’s Blood Online stumbled and fell so Flight Rising could run.
But seriously, this project was WAYYYY too ambitious and kinda confusing as a game concept, but I can see an AMAZING speculative biology project like Serina or Runaway to the Stars. If she dropped the MMO idea and turned her website into an encyclopedia of her biomes, weird animal species, and dragon culture, then I bet she’d find way more success (and less harassment)
This was what the *majority* of people in the thread were talking about, to be fair. But the words "science-based, 100% dragon MMO" are inherently funny on their own so people outside of having dove into the original thread latched onto that bit.
The thing with the game is that they underestimated the game on 2 fronts. Creating an MMO without the existing backing of a massive company is already basically impossible, but the concept of a functional biology game has been tried over and over and over and over, because it's HARD. That's what Spore was meant to be, but that failed to live up. Currently the best variations on this are Species and Thrive. Species really isn't a game as much as a fun little simulator to play around in and Thrive is so difficult that they've only barely reached the point where species can be multicellular.
I'm glad someone else made the flight rising connection lol. i was listening to this person's concepting thinking 'oh man this person wants to make a breeding/genetics based pet sim so bad and she hasn't realized it oh no'
I was initially thinking more the insane complexity of markings and opacities that lioden/wolvden have and then remembered flight rising existed like oh yeah... there is a dragon breeding game
Hell yes, 100% agree. Flight Rising and Runaway To The Stars came to mind for me as well. RTTS with the attention to the speculative biology and science behind the worldbuilding, and of course FR with the neat dragon genes :D
Those two are definitely more successful thanks to their creators having a more grounded approach to their ideas. Rather than building a HUGE game from the ground up, starting with a comic/blog or a simple dragon collecting/breeding game. And with their success, they've gained the resources and experience to potentially expand their projects. Starting small is the way to go for sure.
Flight Rising is super grindy
As a 3d artist I'd say that the dragon models are pretty good for 2010 standards honestly. Texture/materials are definitely a little rough around the edges but considering this is just one person I'm fairly impressed.
The fact you made a meme for the hypothetical fan response to a game that doesn't exist was so weird, I really felt like I was living in that timeline.
The game Dwarf Fortress had a really small team, and one of the bugs they fixed over the years was that the cats in the fortress were getting drunk because dwarves would spill their ale in the tavern, cats would get the ale stuck to their paws as they walked over it, and then when they licked their paws to clean themselves they would ingest the ale. Sometimes the project succeeds, against all odds. I definitely still feel more connection to the unfinished projects, though
That sounds intentionally programmed, im failing to see how something that advanced is considered a bug.
@@robburr4751 old bloody footprint code that then applied to all liquids -> a feature that made cats actually ingest the thing on their paws when cleaning themselves. so far it's normal. the real problem was with the numbers, because blood alcohol calculations made the cats drunk on comparatively low doses. this meant that a lot of cats that walked on pub floors suddenly started throwing up and stuff as soon as they cleaned themselves. that was the real "bug" .
@@kookbook4399 Thanks for the explanation! It would be pretty interesting to see these types of standards met in AAA games.
The main dev also has a Ph.D in mathematics, has been making games since before the internet even existed, and developed Dwarf Fortress over a decade+ using a codebase that's existed for even longer (since I have a feeling a lot of the limb damage system comes from a very old game), with a scale that's far below the stuff you need to do in order to make a 3D game, let alone a 3D game with network play and always-online servers.
Having a big idea for a project is totally fine of course but there's a point where you just gotta go 'come the fuck on', and I don't think people were going to be very charitable about it considering how many dipshits back then and even now marched onto the internet to let people know about their totally real open-world survival crafting mmo with RPG elements.
@@d.h.foster8937 yeah, while dwarf fortress is super impressive, I also think it's a case developers having a good sense of priorities. The game was able intricate as it was because they focused exclusively on the mechanics for two decades. The game only got graphics like this year
The dragon OCS and dreams of making a dragon game have come back to me 😂 I'm not that far into the video but the reminder of wanting the "specific button to flap your wings" hit me hard 💀
I honestly really love and respect projects made with genuine passion like this one. No matter how far they may go. There are some people out there in the world who have some really interesting and neat ideas that, if brought to life, could be worthwhile.
YES!!! I was OBSESSED with Dawn of the Dragon for the flying scenes. My neighbour and I each had the game for diff consoles and we finished every save file and then deleted one to play again. This game single-handedly dominated my childhood. Some of the fondest memories I have are from flying around and roleplaying with her
Edit: also yes I had plans of making a game that was basically the flight levels of Spyro dotd with some quests thrown in but I didn't even know how games were made back then and when I tried coding for the first time I realized my adhd brain can't stay focused on it anyway haha
This honestly looks like a student project - and not in a bad way! This kind of development of a speculative, never-to-be-made personal project is one of the best ways for a newbie artist or game designer to build a portfolio and the skills they'll need to make games professionally. Even professionals do this to show off their skills or learn new ones. The game was never going to be made in the way OP seemed to imagine, but the exercise itself will have taught them loads and is super valuable!
Thanks for this video. I 100% agree that more people need to just. Have a self-indulgent over-ambitious project they turn around over and over in their head and use as an excuse to learn new things but then just kinda. Quit when it stops being fun. And pick it back up. And it's just for them, and they don't start a kickstarter about it. It's good for the soul. Like it doesn't really even feel like a failure to me, to start those kinds of projects and leave them unfinished. It's so hopeful and so human *and then* so generous to just let yourself let it go.
This is worded so well. 10/10
/signed
Seeing a Skyrim reference with an "11 years ago" tag on it gave me psychic damage @_@
It honestly sort of saddens me that the default in these scenarios is people being purely cynical. As a child, I too had these unrealistic dreams, but the way it is, you grow out of it. It's sad creative minds don't receive support - yeah, in this case, a large MMORPG is a basket case, but people seem so eager to trash down on others instead of valuing talent that's right in front of them. I hope OP is still working on their dreams, whatever they might be today.
im absolutely obsessed how Izzy looks so drastically different in every video and yet they always manage to slay
Confession: I thought she was just dying and regrowing her hair every video, and that wigs just didn't exist
each outfit is a damn work of art
@@Meleedroit I did too until I just read your comment; I feel like a kid who just learned Santa isn't real learning that.
@@Bridgeru brown bricks aren't in Minecraft😔
@@Meleedroit Maybe not for you, but I use the Environmental mod so I can place brown (terracotta) bricks in Minecrap! (No I didn't have to boot it up to check the mod..)
My 10-year-old sibling told me she was writing a fantasy novel, and I thought it was gonna be like the dragon MMO, but I read it and they've got one chapter done and it's honestly really good? They were able to quickly set up the romantic plot between the princess and the prince in an engaging, funny way. It's also all spelled correctly, which is more than I could do at that age.
When I was that age, I tried to write a book which I can describe as "Twilight, but set in the Bionicle universe, and they're all in high school." It was pretty terrible. I threw it away in shame years ago. Kinda wish I still had it.
I hate to say it but I really wanna see a twilight bionicle highschool story that sounds great
Once for drama we had to write a play. I wrote a play about a panda bear with chainsaw arms having to fight ninjas and zombies. I was like 17 and I would pay money to find the copy my friend typed up and formatted for me.
Was it good? Oh dear no.
Was it a lot of fun to read? Definitely. We still talk about Kilroy to this day, 15 years later.
Also he retired after winning the girl and played the banjo with his feet. Because, y'know. Chainsaw hands.
Axe Cop is a webcomic about a cop using axes. The creator took the stories his then 5 year old brother made up playing with toys, and turned them into something real. It‘s mind-boggling but really fun. No need to suspend disbelief required, it is so over the top that no one could ever take it seriously.
@@ArDeeMee axe cop is so fun
I would honestly love to see this re-emerge as a worldbuilding speculative evolution project like Snaiad or Serina, I think it would be great seeing how much thought and passion was put into it. I hope the OP is doing well and that she still follows her dreams with no regrets.
I'm rewatching your old videos, so hopefully I didn't just miss this, but would you do a video on VMK? It's Virtual Magic Kingdom, a Disney MMO that closed down like 10 years ago or something (eww, I'm old). It was almost exactly Disneyland, with a Main Street, all of the different lands, rides, everything. As a kid who couldn't go to Disney, I absolutely loved it. They had kiosks in the (irl) park where you could get special items, I was always soooo jealous. There was a huge forum with a whole role-playing section that I was part of - I cringe to think of what I was saying back then. I remember the outrage when they announced they were closing a game. The stupid words on their website: "all good things must come to an end." With this, the forums closed/died, and my role-playing group made our own forum to continue. I cringe even more to think about what went on when we didn't have to follow the rules of someone else's kid-friendly forum.
People have since made their own games. VFK (Virtual Family Kingdom) was the one that everyone seemed to move over to after VMK closed, but now there are remakes or whatever they're called that's basically the same game - like the Club Penguin ones.
If you want more info or anything, I have so much more to share. I'm still in a discord server with my old role-playing friends, so I'm sure they have lots too. :)
I googled VMK after reading this and semi-recovered childhood memories of playing it. Wild
There are fan servers that run vmk so its playable if you can find it 😆
@Dagon Frazer no
@Dagon Frazer bot
@Dagon Frazer whatever u say dagon frazer
@Dagon Frazer hello JACK WRATH
Didn’t expect to see you here bud
Still seeking the attention your parents never gave you
You should check out some gameplay videos of Draconia, an early-access game where you can play as a dragon.
My insane passion project that I'm working on since half a decade is writing a short story 5 pages long and finishing it. It's horrible when you knowin your head that you have a lot of time to do anything you want, but not a single second of it feels like a "free time"
This made me smile - can relate 🤣
Would it help to actually carve out official writing time? So you can do it without guilt.
I have nothing but respect for anyone who does short stories. That shits hard
I think a lot of kids have had big cool ideas like this before and regardless of how ppl made fun of the creator of this, it really speaks to many of us who aspired to do similar projects to this on an emotional level.
Also a dragon breeding game reminds me of flight rising, if you like dragons you should check it out. It’s definitely not an mmo but it is pretty interesting.
I'm actually working on making my own rpg game soon! I struggle with coding due to my dyslexia. Seeing you talk so highly about a game like this gives me hope to actually making it
This reminds me of a game I have in my steam library that I haven't touched in ages called Dragon: The Game. It had a similarly overly ambitious open world RPG concept, and has been in early access since it first hit steam in 2014. I'm not sure if there was any interesting drama behind the scenes or it was just simply abandoned, but if it piques your interest, I know as a fellow former dragon and wolf obsessed kid I'd definitely watch a deep dive on it!
Lol a fellow dragon:the game buyer. I bought a three pack thinking my fam would play it with me.
Yeah, that didnt happen
I didn't buy that one in particular but I am a regretful Day of Dragons backer XD
Your comments about unfinished projects really hit home for me, as someone who gets done with a minority of my creative dreams - but came from my heart at the time!
same, i'm hoping i get at least some of them done.
I'm maining the swamp dragon. But also what you said about unfished projects is a really nice take. I feel like for artists there's a lot of pressure and guilt when we put a lot of hours into things that never turn into any kind of final form for the rest of the world.
Dang, those dragon designs are REALLY good, it's a shame this is a scrapped project.
I myself am currently working on the first draft for my children's book about some silly (but well meaning) superheroes but work has really gotten in the way of continuing and finishing it. I'm really hoping to buckle down on it in 2023, get the bugs ironed out, and start rolling out books (as it's one in many that'll culminate into something bigger). I know I can do it, but I really need the time and space to concentrate while not filing paperwork or in a tired stupor.
is the book going well?
@@jessica-ness Yeah, thanks for asking! Work's still wearing me down here and there but I've made a lot of progress! Just gotta keep taking things one day at a time.
@@mariahs6wish you so much luck! I’ll try to remember to come back for an update one day lol
@@jessica-ness Thanks so much, I really appreciate it!
Dunking on ppl online is pretty fun, but I love vids like this because it really shows the humanity behind the project...;It's very interesting to see all the renders and concept art! Really gives good insight on what Op was thinking. It's genuinely a shame that the project was too ambitious otherwise, I would've loved to play something like this and still would!! :3c
okay, wow, her anatomy is so fucking good holy shit. i wish my dragons looked half as good as that. such a shame that people were so cruel and didnt give her credit for what she may be capable of. thats the work of a creative mastermind whos going somewhere.
"speaking of dragon i want to thank the most appropriate sponsor..."
i was fully expecting bad dragon lol
Years ago i was dead set on making a Paper Mario clone but not only did i also go through a "learning game engines is too scary" arc but the entire game would've been way too long. Would honestly love to return to a scaled-down version of it someday.
Izzy, do you know about Flight Rising? I feel like you should definitely know about Flight Rising. It also had dragons, and breeding, but on your browser.
FR is kinda similar to this tbh
It's kinda this idea but made like neopets instead of WoW
literally the entire time i was thinking about fr, one of my favorite websites ever lol
Was about to say this! :D
its very popular still
i saw the image of the reddit post in the past but never really saw any info on it. knowing that things went much further than i thought is super cool, and i hope the op is doing well these days :>
I'm tempted to find out what the OP is doing these days
This story reminds me a lot of myself. I'm studying programming, animation and game dev, so I haven't given up on my dreams, but it does remind me of my ideas when I was younger.
I still have those ideas, I'm still very ambitious, but I'm also wiser, so I know what to give up on and what to keep working towards.
Her art and ideas are so cool, some even inspired me, so I hope that even if there's no dragon MMO, she's still creating.
I often don’t know anything about these topics but I enjoy listening to Izzy give a general background and explain the peak drama points.
this is so oddly wholesome for what one might’ve expected from the title :’) as a kid i had soooo, so many book and comic ideas that were clichéd and edgy but i get wym about those projects being in a way the purest form of art. just earnest love for the craft, that’s hard to go back to as an adult tbh :(
I look forward to seeing your different looks as much as I do the content of the videos!
@Dagon Frazer ruclips.net/video/JwncAQurlqk/видео.html
@Dagon Frazer hello JACK WRATH
Didn’t expect to see you here bud
Still seeking the attention your parents never gave you
agreed
wow there's like 3 different bots in this one comment alone
@@Crypted112 actually my comment was not a bot lol, it was the link of the "stop promoting your channel in the comment" from jackfilms. I should have made that clear.
I am likely in a category known as middle-aged to old, so the "science-based" dragon idea reminds me of an old Rankin|Bass flick called Flight of Dragons, based off a book by the same name. Main idea of the book was hypothesizing how dragons could realistically evolve/work and the movie... touched on that here and there. A game using that as a basis could legitimately be really cool.
I should pick up a copy of that book one of these days...
Dude, my friends and I, back in like junior high, created a jak and dexter style game design with sonic the hedgehog based character models. We worked on the art and story and dialogue for YEARS. Storytelling and gaming are still massive parts of our lives. No regrets lol
that website art actually looks really cool, it has some unique designs and a lot of cool-looking mutations, you can see how much thought OP put into the world. I hope that even though they're not making the game anymore, they're still working on this world so they can design creatures and plants (and figure out the soil's mineral content) to their heart's content without the external pressure to turn it into something.
also, love your halloween sparkledog hair, izzy!
With the rise of "alternative evolution"-books like "All Tomorrows", I think this world as an artbook with a all it's lore would sell like hot cakes.
The premise reminds me a lot and I mean A LOT of “Flight rising”. You pick an area/clan to start as and breed dragons together to make new types of dragons. It came out in 2012-2013 so I was wondering wether dragon blood online or the Reddit post inspired the game in some way. My friends have been playing it a whole lot recently and there’s even the option to look for minerals and stuff in the dirt I believe, I’ve never played it myself but it immediately popped into my head while watching this
some of the concept work looks like drawovers of flight rising characters to me. one of them looked like it had the same head as a tundra dragon.
SAME, i hope more people play the game, my user is moonwhiskers if u wanna be friends
Start what?
@@shoecheto i think they meant choosing an element and thus clan/area to start as.
@@shoecheto genuinely so embarrassed dear god
Forget making videos on stories of games and lore and Reddit...
We need makeup tutorials!
Fr tho don't stop making these amazing videos! I love watching them, and the way you explain everything is so easy to understand, no matter how convoluted the story may get....
This project reads so much more to me as speculative biology than game!!!! It would have been easier to focus on the parts that excited the creator rather than focusing on the game aspect that would have been impossible to do. Very cool and joyful to see the creators excitement
I can not tell you how much I relate to being a kid who just wanted to play open-world flying dragon games. I was always so mad whenever the games only had you fighting/killing them lmao. I played my Spyro Dawn of the Dragon game so much, especially in I think it was Avalar that it's now actually broken and sorta unplayable lol.
Exactly! Same. I still have my Xbox360 game of Spyro the dragon dawn of a new beginning.
As someone who just got out of a semester of historical geology and oceanography and has a past history of biology I 100% get the drive to want a simulation game that takes into account scientific principals like evolution, plate techtonics, etc. Building a game “world up” is a super cool concept. I’m not personally a big dragon person but i am upset that they got clowned on so much :(
It really is an interesting topic and the art and concepts were really good!!
I hope one day this gets picked up as a full game, this looks cool as hell
I think Dwarf Fortress is the only game that's managed to pull through on the project lead obsessing over tiny details like geological structure and weather fronts and the shear points of metals and so on, but Tarn Adams is kind of special, and also didn't actually do it all at once
I'm usually not a fan of hair with tons of different colorings, but this style combined with the makeup is actually really pretty! This is one of the best looks you've had in my opinion
Honestly this is incredible and Reddit was wayyy too harsh (who would’ve guessed). The immense detail gives me big scientific world building vibes, which is sweet! I hope she continues this project as it would fit right in with the alien biospheres community! My theory is she used the game idea as a physical reason to work on this hobby (I completely understand the feeling of thinking my hobbies are a waste of time and I often find myself tying my projects to a physical medium even if I never intend on actually working on the grounding idea) I would love to see all the in-depth scientific details she has made!
I doubt she actually planned on actually making the game, at least subconsciously. The grounding idea of a game is perfect for a idea that you may feel like is a waste of time (even if a hobby is never a waste of time if you enjoy it). The fact she never made any kickstarters and never did any coding really makes me think she was just leaning on it as a grounding rod type deal. I hope she knows that the scientific world building community is a thing and this level of research and immense scientific detail would fit right in with Bibliaridon creating his world’s massive evolutionary tree form the first single cell organisms on his world and Artifexian forging his world from the literal ground up!
Having worked with genetics as a freelance software developer (Worked for a company that basically did tinder for horses, and they asked me to see if I could make a piece of software that could predict the foal based on the genetics), its pretty darn hard, and I never managed to do it. The whole "pp, PP, Pp, pP" thing still makes my head spin.
Doing genetics is hard and requires a lot of time investment, its not something you just "do" for a game.
Your ending was really comforting, because all I could think about is my own silly projects that never got off the ground. Great video!
So happy to hear that another dragon girl was oddly obsessed with that specific part of that specific Spyro game. I’d ask people about it and they would always be like “wtf no”
Izzzy looks like one of my 2010 magical girl ocs in this video and I have to admire that
Not only is your lovely kiwi accent with all those wonderful inflections and vowel pronunciation just magic to listen to when relaxing or reading etc...
But you have great scripts and they flow so well. You put a lot of information in your videoes but they never feel like there's too much to digest or you are moving too fast...
You have a great knack for taking these complex stories apart and making an engaging, enjoyable and interesting script out of them...
Aaaaad it's just a delight to see what fantastic and cool looks you will rock for the video. You never ever ever fail to make me go 'wow' 😂
You are a real treasure and I really hope your channel grows and you get the success you deserve.
Have a really great Christmas and a very happy new year Izzy! 🍻 ✌️ ☀ 🎅 🎄🎁☃️❄️❄️ From 🇮🇪
Not sure if you're still looking for that flying dragon game, but Day of Dragons is still pretty early one, has all those lovely flight mechanics you wanted though. Nice video!
Loving the marysuecore look for today's video, absolutely legendary
I love how positive of a take you have on the illustrations because the art of the creator is really good!! Even the finished renders are awesome
Forgot to mention that I went to school for animation and game design for 3D stuff and I really love seeing the concepts and work that this person has done. It's just really fun and silly to see
I remember when this posted happened, and people still reference it a lot. I hope no matter where OP is, she’s working on something she likes and can feel proud of.
woah, this is surreal. i was just reading that exact post yesterday, then i see you dropped a video on said post today. 🤯
3D artist who works at a game studio here!
Honestly the zBrush models aren’t bad at all, actually quite good and she must have practiced quite a bit since the program itself is notoriously complicated. However the 3D art pipeline is long and making this high poly dragon sculpt is one step out of ten to create a game ready model. If you popped that bad boy in an engine it would lag or crash.
She’s used poly paint and textured in zBrush. But if she wanted this to be in the game she would need to retopolgoise the high poly into a low poly, then UV unwrap it cleanly, then bake and texture it, then rig and weight map it and finally animate it. That’s a shit tonne of work
Usually there’s artists who pass a model to each other and the work is broken up, I’ve had to do the whole pipeline for a couple of jobs and man is it exhausting.
I wish it was as easy as just sculpting something up and popping it In engine but that’s not reality unfortunately
Also amazing video, I was also the dragon kid on the hunt for that 100% dragon accurate flying simulator
Have you, by any chance, ever heard of Stray MMORPG?
It was small, inspired by Arokai and Impressive Title and the likes, so maybe you ran into it - and I became part of the team at some point
Still friends with another dev, too. We were kids (teens) that thought we could make an MMO. We tried. Cool thing is, both me and the one I stayed in touch with actually went into games as a career later.
Edit: This is giving me flashbacks, though we didn't get backlash. Also you bet we were out of our minds when the game Stray was released this year and actually similar to our concept back in the day lol
I think I managed to dig up the deviantART group on it, and wow- yea that concept is eerily similar to the Stray game that got released lately. Wild.
@@toastycinnabear9738 wonder if you found my old art lol. I made this doberman and cat mascot. We had a proboards forum for updates :D
Cool you looked it up though!
if you don't have use of the concept you should consider selling it to other game devs. ive heard this done and it can get you revenue back for other projects you actually focus on
woahhhh
22:01 "Ranging from animalistic to dinosaur-like" That's one hell of a sentence, Izzzyzzz, I can feel my brain ridges smoothing out💀
You should look into Draconia. It's an early access dragon game that sounds up your alley