On the one hand yes, but on the other I can see the potential chance that them staying neutral means favouring one side by not being honest on who is in the wrong.
@@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc news isn't about who is in the wrong. It is listing known facts about current series of events and their impacts. Not speculation, morality or judgment.
@@KelticStingray Except sometimes you just have to say that one side is wrong. Like the storming of the capitol. There was no evidence of the stuff they were claiming and then they stormed the capitol (i.e. it is the right and factually accurate thing to condemn the people storming the capitol).
@Aye Ayee yes, but it's the highest in the alps and can bring a lot of tourism. If you want more context basically: It was always Italian, but the French also claim it, In my opinion we can divide it, by putting the border there, but the french want it all.
There's a Treaty that says the border is on the watershed between the States, so one side is Italian, the other is French. But of course France wants it all...
I mean, it sums up the recent history of the independence movement, but lacks the reason for its origin, which is what the title of the video talks about
20% is quite a lot for a province that's not the country's capital and if the other 15 provinces have a joint effort of 60%, that's just a whole lot of money going to the capital with barely anything in return
@@nikolaradulovic5283 Barely anything in return? Catalonia enjoys an extremely high level of self-government within Spain. Also take into account that Catalonia's relative weight in the Spanish economy has been going steadily down in the last few years. it's no longer the richest region but the 2nd, having been surpassed by Madrid, and per capita there are a few other regions that are richer. It used to be much higher as it was one of the few places in Spain that industrialized properly in the XIXth century, but that historical advantage is long gone as the rest of the country caught up.
@@juanpabloperezgomez4349 High Self-governance? Sorry? That is Navarra who doesnt pay taxes to the state. Think that before Franco, Catalonia and the Basque Country were Foral. And after the death of Franco, Catalonia and Euskal Herria lost their rights because helped the republican back then. Navarra supported Franco and still have their rights.
@@MrEnric98 A majority of members in Quebec's legislative assembly voted to conduct a referendum, that's how. Canada's provinces are semi-sovereign entities so they can pretty much do what they please in any area not constitutionally reserved to the national government. Canada's constitution has no provisions concerning secession of a province but it was generally recognized that a vote to leave in any province would have to be taken seriously on moral and democratic grounds. The Supreme Court's position was that secession had to be conducted legally, but both parties had a duty to conduct negotiations in good faith and that bad faith acts by either could undermine that side's standing in terms of international recognition. Applying the Canadian good faith logic to the Catalan situation, you'd be hard-pressed to come to a conclusion of anything other than bad faith behaviour on the part of the Spanish government, as they, unlike in Canada, definitively rule out having a referendum on secession at all.
What you are not telling is that in case of a Quebecois secession, they will lose a sizable portion of territory towards the northeast, and be confined to strictly French-speaking areas. Just as Catalonia will be reduced on a significant way if excluded from them areas in which the majority are Spanish speakers, say, Tabarnia.🎗🤣
I normally love this channel's videos and I still believe that this video is well made. However, in this particular case in which the topic at hand is one I know particulary well, I feel like there are too many big omissions and massive details that have been omitted which paint things in a different light than they really are. Mind you, these omissions are not in favour of any particular side, rather they do not let people have the full picture. For example stating that the independence movement started in the 1920's does not make much sense: either you go to its roots several centuries earlier or you only mention the modern independence movement. Or saying that there was only a 43 percent turnover in the 2017 independence referendum without mentioning that pro-Spain voters mostly did not participate in the referendum whereas many pro-Independece people who wanted and tried to vote where not able because the police was trying to avoid the referendum to take place. Again: this does not mean that they are taking any one's side: in fact the omissions hurt both side's rethoric and of course I understand that they cannot do a one hour long video because they need the views, but this leads me to think that probably when they treat other country's issues that I am not well-versed in, maybe they are also omitting large pieces of information and I cannot get a well-rounded picture.
There are smart techno kids who have no first hand idea or real sensitivity of the topic of which they have so impressively digitalised. I like their cartoons too, mind.
Yes I also wonder, for instance I live in Northern Ireland and most people who talk about it unifying with southern Ireland have no idea what they are talking about
Imagine all Catalan-speaking (including its dialects) regions form a single nation….Catalonia, Valencia, Andorra, Sardinia, Southeastern France. Catalonia sends a lot of tax money to Madrid, but doesn’t get much from those tax proceeds.
Western Sahara’s independence movement could be quite interesting, I know Trump put some fuel on the fire before his term ended by recognizing Morocco’s sovereignty there
They might not but I expect them to take a more Atlantic orientated shift in foreign policy and that would of course fit that narrative. Also with Biden’s push for strengthening democracy globally the oppression of Sahrawi’s might not go unnoticed. I also think it’ll be important economically in the years to come with European countries creating stronger trading ties to sub Saharan Africa and the western coast is one of the safest regions of the Sahara. I expect the Moroccan gov to start implementing heavier handed policies in the south.
@@cathalkelley8751 the us goal is to sthregthen its interest. So as long as Morroco stay on good term with America than the us has no need to make a new enemy
Oppresion tf you talking about sahrawis are moroccans , if they were really buying for the creation of the sahrawi state why did they only fight Moroccos Claim , why not algerias sahara , and libyas and mauritanias , the polisario as a whole is a puppet of algeria , it was funded and created it to have revenge on Morocco over the sand war , the sahara and many regions were always moroccan but europeans carved us up and made my country as small as tunisia , sahrawis in morocco also are happy , my father is sahrawi descendant he identifies as moroccan , also the polisario current leader isnt even sahrawi hes a moroccan from marrakesh , the group also has done human and drug trafficking , they have done criminal acts to fund their group and overall you people still having the idea of supporting them is frankly quite idiotic
Spain has always been a very regional country. Asturias is different from Murcia, Catalonia is nothing like Seville and Extremadura's culture differs massively from that of the Basque Country. Regionalism has always been a thing. Many people identify themselves as "galician" or "valencian" rather than "spanish". I'd even say that european sentiment is bigger than the national one, in some cases. Spain's nationalistic sentiment isn't generally strong, for a lot of historic reasons. That being said, Catalonia has always had that strongly regional sentiment. Modern independence movements are the result of nearly 20 years of exploiting that sentiment for mere political gain, aided by Madrid's perpetual disdain and inability to deal with the subject. It's quite sad, imho. Yeah, Catalans have a culture different from Castillians, and so what? So do Asturians or Canarians and (pretty much) no one is asking for independence. Now we find ourselves with a polarized society, two halves of a region believing in absolutely opposite ideals as a result of political irresponsibility. Dialogue is what this situation begs for, but sometimes I think the damage has already been done, and that even if independence doesn't happen, it will take at least a generation to clear today's issues. Many young people really believe that spain is a pseudo-fascist regime and that independence is the only answer to that. That's not gonna disappear in a few weeks, even if a referendum comes out against of independence.
The easiest* solution, in my opinion, is to have an equitable federalized system that's organized bottom-up, instead of a hyper-centralized state that pushes the same agenda on everybody whether it's suitable for their local situation or not. "Madrid" has far too much power -- the national agenda should be decided by every region together, every region's agenda should be decided by every municipality together, and so on. *Not _easy,_ mind. Just easier than the others.
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs That'd have a point if Spain was not already a federal state in all but name, and extremely decentralized. To say that "Madrid" has too much power completely misses the point.
I think this video overlooked two big facts, which painted a distorted version of how Catalonians feel about this: 1. Since 2017 and before, polls have never shown a clear majority support for independence, with both options usually a few points below 50% (because of undecided respondents). What polls consistently show is that Catalonia is divided in two very polarized halves. 2. The results of both referendums have to be taken with a bunch of salt. Obviously, most people against independence was against the illegal referendums too, so they didn't show up. I was surprised you didn't mention the turnout of the 2014 consultation was a mere 37%. And the 2017 referendum was a huge mess, with no guarantees at all that the results were trustworthy. The overview of the independence movement was very lacking too, without delving into its causes, motivations nor why it became so popular in the last decades.
I think the fact that, as of today, there's no clear majority support for indepedence shouldn't obscure the fact that around 70% supports holding a referendum, something that the Spanish government would go out of its way to prevent from happening. Often through the most authoritarian and questionable methods. And let's not foget that the pro-independence bloc has consistently won every single election since the current movement started.
I think that holding a referendum is the only way to know where the actual majority stands, and i also think that the fact that Spain does everything it can not to grant a popular vote, also recurring to violent and shameful methods, is more eloquent than any discussion about possible voters.
@@arielschant9841 The thing is the goverment is obligated by law to enforce the constitution no matter which party is ruling or what they actually prefer to do.
@@lizerat If the constitution says that a people has no right to self-determination and the State has to smash senior citizens’ heads on the street because of their simple will to just make their voice heard (and in a time when self-determination of the people is so central to society), then the constitution has to be changed to better fit the time it is living. The violent and/or repressive way the situation has been so far managed by the Kingdom looks like how authority worked in the 70’s, and it should not be part of what European citizenship means in this century. Especially when millions of citizens are asking to be consulted whether not be subjects of a king anymore, and explore the option to transition into a parliamentary republic system. It is just not right by any means not to grant them even the chance to a legally non-binding consultation referendum…
In Belgium is there something simular going whit Flanders and Wallonia. And we now got a goverment since the last video :). Sidenote I think Puidgimont got refuge in Flanders when Spain wanted to arrest him.
@@Roeckx if I may, why do you think this idea would be met resistance in flanders ? As a frenchspeaking belgian from brussels, I have met a few walloons who said they wouldn't mind becoming french should Belgium separate since the language is essentially the same. Does this feeling also apply to flemish and dutch people or not at all ?
@@vincentdegheyndt3609 independence is not the same as becoming part of a bigger country. I think most Flemish prefer to be part of Belgium than being a part of a bigger Netherlands. What the Flemish want, is more control over their own laws, not independence. With the different reorganisations of Belgium, most of the demands have been met and it is no longer seen as an aspirational future.
@@vincentdegheyndt3609 There is a certain pride among the Flemish. So splitting Belgium just too merge with the Netherlands wouldn't sit well I think. But this is just my opinion that I have with anecdotal evidence. I also believe that a Flanders-Netherlands merge would be economically very strong. But with Antwerp being the second largest port in Europe and Rotterdam being the first. There is a certain fear that the focus would shift more to the port of Rotterdam. (I work in the port of Antwerp btw) This way the benefit would be more for the Netherlands than Flanders.
You guys should do a video on the Western Sahara, it is usually over looked when talked about disputed areas, but it is pretty important for most North African relations.
Nothing to talk about here . As long as the algerian military regime back these mercenaries they will always be tensions now Morocco is ready to support also the Kabyle independence in north Algeria . Fire with fire
@@tomrogue13 yeah in a way they want to be separated from being called Devon and Cornwall and call themselves cornwall and then deven will be devon/devonshire. I also think they should kind of separate In terms of region. cornish do have there different ways to that of devonshire lot
@@tomrogue13 google the Mebyon Kernow party, they’ve got 4 seats in Cornwall council and want Cornwall to be a country within the United Kingdom like Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, as opposed to a county of England
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I'd love a series on disputed regions and independence movements. One about Belgium wanting to slip in 2, I've heard about that idk if Belgians support it tho, could be good. Spain is full of independence movements aren't they?
In Spain there are separatist movements in three regions: Catalonia, Basque Country and Galicia. It isnt surprising at all. Most countries of the world have at least a territory with separatist movements.
@@MiguelLopez-yc2rh not only those I'd also add movements in the other 2 Catalan speaking autonomies, they're not as important tho (and I'd add that Basque country isn't only a thing at the Basque country itself but Euskal Herria (Basque Country + a part of Navarre)
Guys you have to put the precentage of people that voted in the non-binding referendum not just the result, otherwise the % of the votes are meaningless. Come on get your shit together.
the high pro-independent result on both referendums is because unionist boycotted it from the get-go and many did not vote, it does not really mean much. Polls are more reliable and it has been a toss-up for more than a decade now (btw pre 2005 independentist were a tiny minority many Catalans still believing on enhanced self-governance via constitutional reform)
That is not the case. 43% of the census has shown to be in favour, which means that with a turnout of 80% in a referendum accepted by Spain, the Yes has chances to win with no doubt.
Catalan here. The topic is definitely hard to tackle in a 10 min video. Probably not intentionally, but some of the simplifications made seem inspired from a ERC pamflet. Separatists don't have a clear majority in popular support, but due to the election law get always the control of the government. Shouting referendum and democracy doesn't make them more democratic, the laws they passed before the October referendum are against the most basic democratic principles. Independence is a very legit political goal, but not by any means. A referendum with a 50℅ cut is clearly not a way to solve this issue (it might be the last resort for a war torn country, but catalan society is still strongly embedded in Spain). Looking at Scotland, it worked for a few years... Once a yes is passed, will we held referendums for reunification? All it does is split catalan society along national axis. The former government coalition had anticapitalist with free market lovers "working" together, which is why we went to elections. And the same coalition seems to build as only alternative after the veto of erc to psc. During these times ig crisis, see a government more occupied for infighting between independentist factions and undermining central government did not bring joy, probably also why many people didn't go to vote. We're back at the start, they talk about a new unilateral referendum, groundhog day
Good points Pau. Do not compare Scotland with Catalonia. Scotland would be asking to join the EU. Catalonia would be leaving. And Spain would not consent to an Independent Scotland whilst it can fastidiar with its EU vote.
@@MrDrbld good point as well. I just used the example of Scotland to show that a referendum is not the ultimate solution as it is tirelessly repeated by catalan separatists. Although many similarities can be drawn, Scotland and Catalonia are different in many ways. On that note catalans want independence but would see leaving the EU as a last resort to acquire independence and would like to join back in despite the obvious opposition of Spain. And the Spanish state fearing an independent Scotland, or any independence movement within the EU is... Understandable at best. This is all "molt complicat"
Es veritat. However, one must prioritise what is achievable in the current circumstances. Making society ungovernable in pandemic is no help. All economies have been savaged by the Coronavirus as if by some kind of war. Catalan voters seem split still, so impasse, politically. Independance now? Makes sense if Catalonia would be better off as a consequence, but that does not look to be the case for next few years. BTW, the Scottish cause has just been set back by, well, corruption and political infighting. So looks like Spanish cohesion is the better situation short term because Catalans will get the benefits of a stronger state aid system backed by the EU.
@@alexderamon2060 Calling it an island is maybe too much. It is super small piece of land in the middle of a river with nothing in it. Calling it "an exclave" is a little much.
All the separatist states? Just as a pointer, Spain has no states but regions (technically the name is Autonomous Comunities). But, as far as my knowledge goes, the only two separatist movements are Catalonia and the Basque Country (which is now not very buoyant).
How can you call the 2017 "vote " a referendum ? This so called referendum was held only by independentist, there were no list of registered voters (someone could vote multiple time at the same location), they counted vote before the end and with only independentist present. This was a political manifestation but absolutely not a referendum.
There were voters rolls, you had your polling place defined (like in any other election) to avoid double-voting, and there was an additional internet backup system to also avoid double-voting. When an armed terrorist organization destroys voting places, violently attacks voters all around the country in a coordinated attack, and disable phones and internet to avoid the validation in place, then you have to make do with watever you have on hand. But you would not want to stop democracy just because a few ultra-nationalist terrorists coordinated violent attacks with foreign operatives on the day of the election, right?
@Jofre the video I have seen, no one checked the voter rolls. But I was not there so I will not contest it. But calling the Spanish police a terrorist organization is very extreme and completely discredit everything else you might say. I agree that the repression was a lot more violent that it needed to be. But when terrorist armed group launch a coordinated action, there are usually dozens of death (Paris attack for instance). So maybe you should adapt your vocabulary.
@@Bb13190 There was an attempt to use the voter rolls, but as I said, the government took down the internet to block online verification, and physically and violently took the written voter rolls from the places they could access. This is why the videos on the afternoon (when the Spanish government let the press record) don't show the voter rolls. The concept behind the police attacks during the referendum was not to stop the vote --it was too late for that. The concept was to literally terrorize any potential voter into not voting. If there is an organization that wants to cause terror through violent attacks in order to achieve their political goals, I would call the organization terrorist. Yes, there were no dead people directly because of the violence (there were dead people because of police blocking emergency services), but the violence caused 900 wounded, so I would also not say "it was nothing".
Yeah, in the 2017 one, testimonies of people being able to vote 7 times and very low participation of non-independentist as they didn't recognise the validity of such referendum.
Yeah pretty poor reporting not to mention that a poll declared unconstitutional before it even occurred was likely to dissuade unionists from participating more than it would dissuade separatists.
@@ishrod_tweaks Then why is the Spanish government so afraid of making a referendum? And if there are more people against them in favor of independence why did the independents win the parliament?
@@joaolaja5961 Because the Spanish Constitution clearly states that the unity of Spain is indissoluble. There’s literally no legal framework for holding this referendum unless Spain were to draft a new Constitution. We have similar language in the US.
@@jalenbrown1363 A referendum doesn't jeopardize the unity of Spain, it is just a question to determine if the population wants Catalonia to become an independent state in the form of a republic.
In 2014 a referendum was held, in which 80% of voter answered yes to independency... but something important is missing. ONLY 43% of the population voted in that referendum, voters for yes, mostly. The rest of the population (mostly voters for no) did not vote, because the referendum was illegal.
You'd likely not want to touch this subject with a 10 foot pole, and I don't blame ya, but I'd love to hear your take on the Palestinian Authority, Gaza and the territories occupied by Israel (yes, you can hear the bias in the question).
@@evolution__snow6784 I meant I am biased (well, actually, every one is - I'm just being upfront about it). I'm not stating my bias, though, but you are welcome to guess at it :-)
@@evolution__snow6784 you know what? I fixed the question to be slightly less biased (I believe - I am, after all - biased - so I may be wrong about this).
Maybe I’m biased because I literally live 300 meters from the border in a town split in half by it, but I really think an analysis of the Irish border is needed just to show the reality of it to a lot of people
And this is why Scotland leaving the UK and joining the EU is so stupid, spain would never allow Scotland to Join, imagine the confidence that would give the Catalans.
@@ab-ym3bf if you truly believe that I question you're ability to comprehend geopolitics. Country states will always do what's in their best interest. A independent Scotland is contrary to Spain's best interest.
@@joselugo4536 Because it would send a message to the Catalans that if you gain independence you can just join the EU and everything will be fine and dandy, which goes completely against Madrid's agenda. Therefor it would be in the best interest of Spain to block Scottish accession.
As the UK is no longer a member of the EU it doesn't apply the rule of not allowing a new member carved out from a member state. Catalonia would lose membership inside the European Union if it declared an unilateral independence, because SPAIN is a standing member STATE.
Here in Scotland we had a legally binding referendum in 2014 in which both sides promised to respect the result. That lasted 5 minutes before the nationalists started harping on about having another one..
These sorts of independence referenda are extremely one-sided too, because unionists will need to win every single referendum in perpetuity, while nationalists only need to win once. The SNP will continue to try to have a referendum again and again and again until they get the result they want
A great video altogether! However, when showing the results of the 2017 referendum it might be interesting to note that most people against independence did not vote due to the unconstitutionality of the matter. This is a more accurate reflection of the division of the Catalonian people on this topic.
Yeah, I remember reading in the NY Times about that... man, 2017 feels like 20 years ago now 😓 But the voter turnout was low enough that the seemingly high percentage for independence wasn't reliable. Do you remember what the turnout was? I'm pretty sure it was less than 50%
@@chris7263 yes, but obviously when you fear getting injured by the police if you vote, a lot of people decided that it wasn't worth it. in my family alone there where 4 people 60+ years old who decided they were too afraid to vote. Democracy in it's purest style, and the the same people that send the police claim that turnout was low... Yes, that referendum can't be taken to claim independence but it's clear a referendum is necessary.
There were only a campaign in favour of independence. This was not a referendum, was a 😂 silly proclamation of independence. The majority of people don't go to vote because they were against independence. This referendum was unconstitutional and illegal.
South-Tyrol independence/reunification with Austria would make for an interesting video since almost all parties in their regional parliament are autonomist or seperatist (except the far right LN).
@@FlagAnthem Well i mean technically the whole north wants to separate but South Tyrol has another language, culture and history than the rest of italy so its probably the most likely to separate...
The indepedence on my opinion is a bad decision for them since they are already a part of EU. Even if they gained independence they would most likely have to apply to join the EU and spain would veto their admission. It just isn’t worth it.
Even if they Spain refused them joining the EU, they can sign unilateral treaties, like any basically every country in the world. Plus, they are the richest province in Spain, if they leave, they won't be dragged down by the rest of Spain anymore.
Micheal Davis Spain can veto treaties with the eu which is catalonia‘s biggest partner, therefore it would have a bad economic effect. It can also pressure other countries to not sign bilateral treaties with catalonia, like china does with other nations in the case of taiwan.
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Actually, when they suggested independence 1500 companies left Catalonia. And it was not a real independence declaration. Soooo... no.
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Spain can veto all the agreements with EU. Unilateral treaties with each member states wouldn't work, because most of the competences on that matter was transferred to the European union. There is also the enormous problem of euro. Catalonia outside of the European union wouldn't be allowed to use the European currency anymore. So economically it could represents an enormous disruption
I'm from a region called La Rioja Next top the Basque country and I feel spanish, although I can understand in some ways catalans people (as I've been there and I have many friends) I see a lot of people feeling Spanish there and they are really not that different from spaniards in other regions. This conflict is being used by politicians to hide corruption and bad legislative policies, on one side and and the other. So I don't see Catalonian Independence happening in the near future. With all respect, let's unite and not divide. Best regards
I remember seeing a Poll Catalunya wanting independence but weird enough was that many people in Barcelona voted against it. Imagine an independent Catalunya without the Main city.
You guys missed why there is such a strong sense of nationalism which goes back to medieval times. The video gives the impression that it is very recent, and while there have been some major events in recent years, the history goes way back.
It’s never been as strong as now because hispanophobia has never been institutionalised as it is now. The strongest nationalisms prior to the current one occurred in the XVIII century
That's like saying that Nazism goes way back because it talks about the origins of the German people and the Holy Roman Empire. Let's be honest, all nationalism tries to justify itself in history, that's what is all about, but the current political movement's roots are what they are, just like Nazism started with a certain moustached fellow and not with the existence of the Germanic tribes.
Absolutely! The world (at large) doesn't even know "Catalunya", let alone knowing the hundreds-of-years history between this country and Spain, before the territory of "Spain" even existed, and Catalunya was its own, independent nation.
@@SimplyHealthTips Well technically it was the Kingdom of Aragon, which had the area of Catalunya comprised within it, but also other areas. Just to be technical👌
Well the main problem with Catalonias independence is that the Spanish Constitution very clearly states that the Territories and Autonomous Communities that constitute the territory of Spain are UNDIBISIBLE. Thats why the referedum was deemed ilegal before it even happened because it very clearly goes against the constitution. In order to let Catalonia make a binding referendum for indepence the Constitution would have to be reformed first, wich is incredible hard needing a majority of 2/3s of the chamber to rerwite the Preliminary Title wich is the one that covers this topic. This is incredibly hard not only in general but given the new political model of several parties in power that Spain has been having for the last years it's pretty much imposible to pass a Constitutional reform of said Title and of course Nation-wide parties don't want Catalonia to go independent because it's one of, if not, the wealthiest regions in Spain and the Independent movement it's pretty unpopular outside of Catalonia. Furthermore reforming the Constitution to allow this kind of independent movements would really damage Spain as whole since not only Catalonia but both Galicia and the Basque Country have strong independent movements. So as of right now the only way of achieving Catalonian indepence is through an armed conflict, wich, ain't gonna happen'.
I mean, the notion that “well the country that controls them now has to change their constitution first so they can’t be independent sorry” is imperialist dog shit, democracy decides, not bureaucracy
Catalonia 7,5 million cirizens , only 1,2 millions want to be independents, i am from catalonia and the mayority of catalan population want to be spaniards
@@zen370865 Not all critics of the 'procés' are Spanish. Others know about the "3%" extra commision to get things done, hilarious debt of the Generalitat, the immigration problem, the black economy and the propaganda machine called TV3. Get real. Catalonia used to produce things - Pharma, Automóvil, Textile, Publishing as opposed to the rest of Spain. Not anymore. Moreover, the EU will never support 'independent' status to Catalonia despite - and most likely because of - the hysterical flag, language and identity propaganda from the nationalists. The legacy of the "3%" cronyism such as with the Pujol Dynasty puts off FDI. La Caixa, Banc Sabadell and many major corporations already moved their HQs outside of Catalonia just upon hearing that there could be an independent regime that would assume control over their holdings. A vote of no confidence from the very assets the nationalists think are 'Catalan'. An "independent" Catalonia is outside the Schengen; with no Euro and financing from Brussels; it would have a colossal obligation for public sector workers wages and pensions; no competitive advantage such as a strong currency; no independant army. An "independent" Catalonia would be a ruinous, weak and immiserated place unable to defend itself and prostrated before its former biggest trading partners - Aragon, Valencia and Madrid and France and likely a vassal state of the Chinese. Most dolorous for the majority would be that it would be excluded from the Spanish league. Its inhabitants and impoverished, hard working taxpayers would be hardest hit. The Spanish economy would also be severely impacted, so central government will not allow it. Rather inconvenient. A better future for Catalonia is in a higher technology ecosystem and a skilled population trading as a Spanish autonomy closely cooperating with Madrid, a likely mega hub competing with... Miami. There will be no Brexit factor for Catalonia, Brexit now being considered a runaway success. Catalonia is not UK
The video is missing a fair bit of context: 1: The Spanish Constitution does not allow for unilateral referendums. If Catalonia wants to secede, it must be by modificating the Constitution, or the conflict will continue 2. The rise of Catalan Nationalism in the 2010s is heavily linked to big corruption scandals in Catalonia, look up the name Jordi Pujol 3. This last Catalonia elections had a 50% participation due to the pandemic
Provided that it is demographically impossible that Catalonia, through its representatives in the Spanish Parliament & Senate, even with allies from other regions, enacts a constitutional reform allowing for a referendum, your dichotomy only leaves the option of continuing the conflict. Regardless of one's point of view, this is a rather dire solution (or lack thereof).
@@6abril1991 I agree, the current system does not leave much room for these kind of changes to happen. But the solution should not be to bypass every basic law and do whatever you please, we have clear evidence that this approach just leads to more conflict and polarization. It is a complex issue with an even more complex solution, but I think we can all agree that both political sides have failed to deal with the situation in a realistic and serious way. It's become an endless circus that feeds the media and social movements with no real political development to back the noise.
Point 1. was covered, point 2. would have been interesting, but given how old the movement is, it seems a tad unfair to put it down solely to that, and point 3. should have been mentioned. In any case it does not seem like the movement has enough support to justify seceding from Spain - such a thing should _just_ be down to the popular vote, not down to a majority in parliament that was achieved by other means, and the popular vote should have a clear majority (such as 2/3 or 3/4) and a large turnout, so people only voting on a whim don't swing it. 50% of a 50% turnout really doesn't cut it.
@@MalloonTarka Point 2 might seem unfair to you, but the reality is that the old CiU was never out and out independentist, and only became so (radically changing the political balance in Catalonia and triggering the current stage) when hounded by the courts after their decades of corruption were exposed, and wrapping themselves in the Catalan separatist flag was their only way of surviving politically. I can respect ERC's independentism because that was always in their genes, so to speak, but it's much more difficult to do the same for Ciu/Junts.
Actually Together for Catalonia the ERC and the Popular Unity Candidacy, didn't reach 50% of the vote. All three combined reached 48%, is when you add up the numbers of the also independentist Catalan European Democratic Party, a party seceded from Together for Catalonia that takes a more moderate stance on the independence issue, it's more right-wing and didn't achieve representation this election that you get more than 50% of the votes. 52% if you include the even smaller parties.
The Western Sahara, for sure! Between the renewed war between Morocco and the SADR and the seeming trade of US recognition of Morocco’s claim to the territory for Moroccan recognition of Israel, it is definitely an overlooked region.
A video about the italian Ladin communities would be interesting. The 5 groups, Cortina, Fassa, Fondom, Gardena and Badia, were essentially split up between 3 provinces and are, to this day, politically dominated by the german and italian language group. Despite beeing a minority language in italy, the oldest to be exact, they still dont have the same rights as German and French minorities. For example German and French have german/french translations on their documents, while ladin people dont.
@@nicobortoluzzi8724 If i don't remember wrong, they only explanied the British Overseas Territories, not the dispute itself. A complete video dedicated to the topic!!
Surely the tiny turnout in the referendum is relevant? The vote was already declared illegal so the only people willing to vote were those who were the most passionate in their view, ie mostly those looking for independence. I would argue it's dishonest to not mention the tiny turnout. Polling for Catalan independence gives support at 40-45%, whereas the 2017 referendum had a yes vote of 92% and a turnout of 43%. Are you starting to see a little bit of a discrepancy there? The vast majority of unionists didn't vote because why would they?
@@arnavketineni7836 pretty sure they never were. First they were a county under the Frankish Empire, then a principality under the Crown of Aragon, and then Aragon and Castille joined and eventually became Spain. So no, never an independent country.
5:39 An independent Catalonia would be plaged specially in the mayor cities by millions of Spaniards which would cause a massive migration of spaniards which would result in businesses closing Spain being overrun by refugees and Catalonia economically destroyed.
7:16 *president, even though we are a constitutional monarchy it’s different than the UK's, in Spain the king doesn’t have such an important or venerated role, you can see this just by comparing the UK crown and the Spanish crown. Edit: I forgot, we also call the leaders of autonomous regions president. Edit2: The independence polls can be a bit confusing because there are different degrees of pro-Spain/pro-Catalonia, for example there are moderates in each side(more so in pro Catalonia) right wingers(more so in pro-Spain) and leftists (there are a lot on each side and also vary in degree)
The official translation of the Presidente del Gobierno in English is Prime Minister of Spain. The Spanish king has very similar constitutional powers to the British monarch
@@LordDim1 Yes, the spanish king does have some similar powers to the british one, only diference is that the spanish king has less off it and is very clearly marked as king under the rule of thumb of the people (technically) as when a new monarch is proclamed they don't put the crown on their head and the crown is also pretty dull compared to other european ones. To add to this, due to the scandals of king emeritus and his nomination as successor of a fascist dictator has greatly decreased their popularity.
I think you should have addressed the reasons for the autonomy movement more in depth - I haven't really understood why catalonia wants to be independent at all
Two reasons: their own language and a stronger economy than other regions from Spain. Yes, it is stronger precisely because they are part of Spain and yes they would suffer if they ever leave because they would be surrounded by the EU single market and EU allies (like Turkey, Argelia or Morocco) and Spain would probably never let them in the EU for decades if not centuries. But, much like Brexiters, Catalonia independentists focus on feelings over facts.
Spanish person here. You're missing some context in this video: most of the atricles striken from the statute of autonomy were already approved (and confirmed constitutional) in other regions' statutes. The same happened with a lot of laws that were considered "inconstitutional" or "illegal" when approved in the catalan government, but are perfectly leglal and constitutional when approved in another region or the central government. The context on this video seems like catalans are independentists because of some cultural or historical reason, but for the majority of people, the Spanish government is using Catalonia as a scapegoat for a long time, and just discussing "the catalan issue" to avoid legislating on any other thing, which is why the social protections have been going down for all Spanish people in the last couple of decades. Most of the independentists (or "secessionists", as are called on this video), are just tired of how the central government treats Catalonia. The scary thing if Catalonia ever becomes independent is to think what region is going to be the next scapegoat. BTW, about using "secessionists" vs "independentists", they have different connotations (at least in Spain): - When using "secessionists", you imply there's a Spanish nationality and identity that would be broken. This is commonly used by the far right. - When using "independentists", you imply there's a different cultural identity and that people want to regain their own rights. To put it in a way easy to understand for somebody on the UK: - Indians wanting to stop being a colony were "independentists". - The people in the City of London who want to separate from the UK to create a tax heaven are "secessionists". I am assuming your current Spanish proofreader is not from Catalonia, for how this video was presented. I encourage you to find a Catalan proofreader for issues related to Catalonia (and have Catalonia-related videos proof-read by both), since you'll be a lot more neutral this way.
"he Spanish government is using Catalonia as a scapegoat for a long time, and just discussing "the catalan issue" to avoid legislating on any other thing" Why was the catalan issue an issue to begin with, though? I mean, I find it plausible that government after government resort to this as a way of diverting attention, but there must have been something there beforehand. Why? -- "Most of the independentists (...) are just tired of how the central government treats Catalonia" From an outsider point of view, this is what sparks the most curiosity. It's a superbly rich region where life seems to be better than average in Spain itself - already a rich country. What exactly is it that makes people so angry over there? I totally get the historical feud with Franco suppressing minority languages, but why now? --- Another question: is there any difference between the autonomous status of the Basque region and Catalonia's? Thanks!
Estoy acuerdo con la mayoría de los puntos que has puesto ahí, especialmente que la definición y la selección de termos es muy importante, pero una pregunta si tengo: Tu llamarías el movimiento independista un movimiento nacionalista? Porque yo soy de Alemania y ahí todo lo que tiene que ver con Independentismo y Nacionalismo está considerado derecha y conservador. Mi única intención es entender este movimiento profundamente, porque tengo amigos catalanes y al final de discusiones siempre acabamos en el punto de la identidad catalana. Yo entiendo la decepción y la rabia que tienen los catalanes contra el estado español y por eso creo que la Independencia es la única manera de salir de este conflicto, pero me preocupa el odio y el crecimiento de una identidad catalana superior a la española. Espero que me puedes dar respuestas útiles.
@@gdf_6c I am not from Catalonia but I am a Galician living in Euskadi so I will try to answer your last question. Both Euskadi and Navarra have very different self governing administrations than the rest of the Spanish Communities. It is call Foral System, and it's a very complicated thing that comes from the Spanish succession war, the Carlist wars and way back in history. But basically, in all the other communities, like Catalonia, the central state gives the money to the Community, and the Community decides to do with it what it can; but in Euskadi and Navarra, they get their own money from taxing their citizens, and they pay the central government whatever they have to, in order to pay for the services that the central government provides (like highways and trains). Sorry if I am not explaining myself clearly haha I am not an economist.
Western Sahara has been a separated region from moroco for almost 135 years (Since the Spanish crown anexed it) and even before all the territories that are part of Western Sahara weren´t controled by Morroco. Catalonia has never been independent on its own (It has always been part of either Spain or Aragon). I don´t know about you, but i think there is more than a small diference between those two territories
@@thinkforamoment770 this is not about being separated or never been that, it about what people there want Autodetermination doesn't take in consideration hostory but the will of inhabitants
@@thinkforamoment770 Spain’s claim on Western Sahara is upon self determination, not history. Since they claim that, they would have to give independence to Catalonia as well. Else it is double standards
@@ibrahimyilmaz4861 But it is not only Spain's claim, there is also a wide international concern about Western Sahara status. Internacional community is still waiting for the referendum that was part of the peace agreement of 1991. Keep in mind Western Sahara is a subject of decolonization, a non autonomous territory with no political rights. That is the reason why they deserve a selfdetermination referendum. Catalonia can not invoke internacional law, but must change Spanish fundamental law, the Constitution of 1978.
@@eduardopedrosredondo1193 Morocco claims Western sahara on grounds of its border pre colonisation which in fact include Western Sahara. One cannot wish for this territory to be „free“ while objecting to Catalan independence on grounds of „it being against Spanish Fundamental law“. I’m sure it is against Morocco’s Fundamental law as well for a territory to separate.
@@MsPerchero That is a lie. They campaigned and they told everyone that it was safe to vote and they encouraged everyone to vote. It's easy to find videos of Illa, Garriga, Carrizosa and Fernández all encouraging people to vote.
@@MsPerchero In that case you are absolutely right. The pro-union forces did, in their majority, not vote in the 2017 referendum. However there was also many pro-independence forces who also were not able / who were afraid to vote since the police was trying to stop the referendum. It is clear that that referendum was NOT a reflection of the popular opinion, though.
Because since they are in their belly's mother, are taught with the false idea Spain stole money from them, and they are a country since centuries, the same as UK with Gales and Scotland but the difference that they invented the History to allow the Puyol family to stole money from the Catalan people "legally".
Their arguments all seem to come down to "The people in Catalan voted for Catalan to become independant" but that doesn't matter. If a random town in France decided it wanted to be independant, it wouldn't just become independant, you can't just decide to leave in and of yourself. The votes that they assert justify their seperatism were proven illegal before they happened, something illegal cannot be a justification of why that thing is not illegal. If their goal in this manner is illegal in Spain (which they are currently a part of) then it is ilegal, the only way around this would be to flatly deny the authority of the entire Spanish government (like a convicted criminal simply refusing what they did was illegal).
Catalonia is not a “random town” and to compare it to that is being dishonest. It’s a region with its own culture, its own language, its own history, its own defined borders. A region should be able to secede from a country. Governments do not own the land and the people they rule over. They are legitimized only by the populace. If at any time a people does not give their legitimacy to the institutions above them, they should not need to keep following them. This is the heart of democracy. People participate on a voluntary basis. Perhaps you would be convinced by the UN? UN General Assembly Resolution 1514, article 2 states: “2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.” Right now, Catalonia is seeking self-determination and Spain is fighting it as colonizers often do. Illegality of the referendum is not an argument. If Spain wants to, it can let all attempts at a referendum be illegal in perpetuity, making it impossible for Catalonians to use their right to self-determination.
@@shappy60 I drew on a "random town" which was obviously an exaggeration, to highlight that it is irreverent if just the people of that region deside to be independant, by the argument that the people of the area deside whether it is independant, then i could declair my house independant and that the government could do nothing about it, i deliberately abstracted it from the real situation to focus on the argument itself, hense if a random town in France decided to independant would you really expect France to just give it to them? If that was the system no notable country would exist and governments would loose legal authority, e.g. You just murdered someone, oh wait your independant now and don't have an extradition treaty, oops oh well guess we have to accept that because they have self determination under the UN. Onto the UN, if the majority of the people of Spain voted against the government of Spain on it's denial of Catalan's independance, then there would be no issue. That complies with the UN self determination, and i cannot see how a democratic government could deny that, but it's not currently the people of Spain majority voting against the government, just the people of the Catalan region. The fact a region has defined borders (in terms of legal authorities as a region of Spain) and it's own language and culture, are reasons it may want independance, but not arguments for why it has more of a right to independance than any other place with the same language culture and history as the rest of the country. So the example of a town was misrepresentative in that it abstracted from the specifics of the issue, but not is these aspects, as these aspects are only relavant in so much as they may affect a national vote. And do not provide any more legal legitimacy to their argument, which is what i was addressing.
@@granotaapellido839 sure not, since from the point of view of spain catalans does not have rights. No right of expression (a referendum is just that, express the opinion), no right of reunion (we all see what happens when people, peacefully, meets .. and Guardia Civil or Policía Nacional doesnt like the reason: they beat people like if they were figthing zombies), no right of comunications (closing webs for thousands), and it seems that they are not "people" either, just subjects. Only by this way you can say that, while U.N. chart talks about “2. All peoples have the right to self-determination" that does not include them. When you need to say each day that spain is democracy it means that people doesnt believe it.
Whilst I'd consider myself fairly knowledgeable when it comes to history, more modern history has sadly escaped me. I'd like to understand about Kosovo. When it comes to what the UN recognises, I dont think theres a more disputed region in Europe.
Something that outside observers fail to account for is that Catalunya is not the only region with an unique culture and identity within Spain. Spain is made up of multiple nationalities, all recognized and given a level of autonomy higher than most other countries in the world with similar regional differences. Many of the arguments put forth by the Catalan independence faction are equally true for late parts of the country, with some having suffered more historically yet receiving less attention.
Catalonia has been mistreated since the "Edictos de Nueva Planta", when the Bourbon suppressed their "fueros". The reason why Catalonia wants independence is because Spain is a train with no tracks, and Catalonia, that has been one of the richest regions of the country, is mad about it, it has been many times when dumb decisions from Madrid have affected catalonian economy; and the catalonian culture (with the basque one) are the only that have had major renaissances. Visca Catalunya independent!
So true. Barcelona was industrialized during the 19th century/early 20th thanks greatly to the favoritism Madrid's central government gave to Catalan nationalists, which had mostly bourgeois support, and also because the colonies Spain still held. It's been proven that Barcelona enriched itself partly thanks to the slave plantations in Cuba or Puerto Rico. Artur Mas was a descendent of a family of slave owners. Not to say the Catalans don't have legitimate reasons to dislike the vestiges of Francoism in the Spanish political establishment but to claim they're _oppressed_ while regions such as Andalusia or Canary Islands were mostly forgotten in the early industrialization its funnt lolololo
@@danielforeroc Literalmente nadie te impide hablar catalán o celebrar la cultura catalana dejad de llorar sois la región más rica de España y os habéis beneficiado mucho más de lo que pensáis de ser parte de España. No sois los colonizados, sois los colonizadores 🗿
@@danielforeroc every region in Spain (and many other parts of Europe) has suffered mistreatment by the central government in the past. And saying only the Basque and Catalans have enjoyed a cultural Renaissance is just plain wrong (Galicia’s Rexurdimento happened at around the same time as Catalunya’s Renaixença). Catalunya has also enjoyed benefits in the past and present, like industrial investment and grants to monopolize certain trades and industries, to the detriment of other regions of Spain.
I agree, those other regions should also be independent. They can federate afterwards if they want to maintain close ties with the other regions of what used to be Spain. Or at the very least Spain should be reorganized into an equitable federal state, where the national agenda is decided by all the regions together, instead of imposed by a central government whether it suits the local situation or not.
5:13 About that I have to clarify that 80% said yes, but only 37% of the people who was called to vote did, so that means a total of 29,6% of yes in the total.
I believe it would be fair to mention that the Guardia Civil deployed over 10,000 armed police and severely injured around 1,000 citizens on the day of the 2017 referendum - impacting the turnout to the referendum
I would be very interested in an analysis on flemish nationalism in Belgium and the current state of belgium in general from your perspective. As a belgian, I often find external views on this topic to be way more hindsightful than the very divided coverage from our national media
i'm from Galicia A major reason of why pro-independance parties just won a majority is because the far-right Vox, and both PP and Ciudadanos, keep on talking about the "separatists" and make light of the dictatorship (Vox even said in parliament that the current PSOE/Podemos government was the worst in 70 years, implying that Franco's dictatorship was better than a democratically elected center-left with left-wing support government). In that sort of climate, it makes sense why Catalunya is worried about its future within Spain, and sees independance as a more reliable path forward, as complicated as it would be.
3:20 small correction, it's Canary Islands, not just Gran Canaria. We always get forgotten :( there's even a subreddit all about /r/mapassincanarias european maps without Canary Islands :(
@@mimovil8730 Marruecos no tiene, bajo un punto de vista historiográfico, ningún argumento a favor para su reclamación, pues nunca fue parte del territorio alauita (este se formó en el siglo XVII, siendo Canarias conquistada finalmente en el XVI) y su población, si bien bereber, no tenía ninguna conexión cultural en términos sociales o religiosos con las poblaciones que compondrían el actual Marruecos al darse un aislamiento que abarca entre mil años o más. Es como si Italia reclamase la Península Ibérica por la antigua conquista romana, o incluso Grecia con el sur peninsular con el dominio bizantino, y aún así ellos si tendrían más derechos que Marruecos siguiendo la pauta de herencia (en este caso romana). Así que, con cariño por parte de un canario, en este asunto no hay base fundable para una reclamación territorial.
@@mimovil8730 pues si esa es la razón no creo que ninguna organización ni tribunal internacional la apoye sinceramente. Y siguiendo tu razonamiento, más razón incluso para no solo ser propietarios de Ceuta y Melilla, sino que deberíamos recuperar el Rif. Pero hasta yo digo que eso es una estupidez. Por hechos históricos y por cuestiones culturales (de quienes habitan actualmente) Canarias pertenece a España. Otra cosa sería si, desde un inicio, Canarias hubiese sido un dominio bereber pleno con conexiones continuas con el continente y, por ende, con los mismos rasgos socioculturales. Pero no es así el caso señor (o señora, no vamos a dar por sentado todo).
Well, we kind of have a conundrum here: if Spanish constitution states that there can be no dissolving national unity, any referendum for Catalonia's secession will automatically be unconstitutional... which, of course, cannot be satisfying for Catalonia. Even a Spain-wide referendum would make very little sense because Catalans are not even close to being 51% of Spain's population. There is no "legal" way for Catalonia to gain indipendence unless the central parliament graciously agree to amend the constitution which is not highly probable, is it.
I believe a pretty important detail has been missed on this video. The fact that people opposite to Independence in Cataluña didn't vote on either of the referendums as they were both illegal. With that fact it makes sense that there was a large majority in favor of pro-independence supporters. Most of Spanish people, even in Cataluña, love their country the way it is and don't want to see it broken in pieces. We love Cataluña and are proud of it too. It's definitely a difficult situation. I want to send a massive hug to all Catalanes.
The majority of catalans wants Catalunya to become an independent state, as we see clearly in the last elections and in the past years, so don't say most of catalans. And the opinion of the rest Spanish people doesn't count as the catalan opinion because this issue belongs to the future of catalonia
Mr. López is full of shit. Pro-independence Catalonians are a minority (vocal and annoying) but still a minority (something like 42% to 52% last time I checked, according to the pro-independence Catalan government polls).
There are some important inaccuracies. ERC opposed the 2006 statute, it was mostly agreed between PSC and CiU. As for the independence movement, it is not going anywhere and everyone knows it, despite the rethoric of pro independence parties. The extremely low turnout in the last election shows that people don't even care anymore
@@jbonells To some extent could be, but the heavy turnout fall was already being predicted by polls for years. It was completely logical, coming from the highest turnout ever with a large proportion of pro-independence people seeing that the process had failed and many unionists not fearing independence anymore.
I don't think the Catalan people should try to drag the EU into the dispute. If Spain were to let Catalonia secede, and that's a big if, they would likely veto their EU membership application. (Kinda like the UK threatened to do to Scotland if they voted to secede)
It's worth pointing out that out of the 14 articles reviewed, only 4 were fully suppressed, the rest being subject to minor modifications. And, although the Sentence's preamble was pretty inflammatory, the highlight of the court's decision was the modification of Art. 218, which would have allowed the catalan parliament to regulate how much the region contributes to the state budget.
The REAL problem is a same papers were presented for the comunnity of Andalucia and they had 0 modifications, fully accepted, Catalan outrage is quite plausible...
@@perrymanso6841 Andalucia never did the same. Not all reforms of an Statute of Autonomy are the same. The same way a contrat that makes you work for less than minimun wage is illegal but barely over it, isn't.
@@perrymanso6841That's one of the talking points of the nationalists but it's easily disproven if you take the time to research whether it's true or not.
I guess part of the problem is Spain really really doesn't want to lose Barcelona, being one of the richest cities in the country and a major tourist magnet.
I really liked this video, very interesting, learned quite a bit, and it cleared up some things. Would appreciate a video on Ocitanian independance, if that is not popular then a video on the westen sahara would be interesting (the unrecognised country underneath Moroco). Thank you very much have a good day and keep up the hard work.
It is worth mentioning the omission of the major Unionist protests right before the nuclear option was imposed after E.R. basically declared independence. The support for independence in Catalonia is mixed, it has been since before the Spanish Civil War and it will probably be for decades to come, even if a Pro-Independece party is voted in on the regional level in Catalonia.
Millions are most certainly not fighting to separate from Spain. The title is very misleading. We just had a regional eleccions here in Catalonia (for the Catalan parliament) about 2 weeks ago, and only 27% of the census voted for parties that are in favor of Catalan independence. Most of us Catalans are not pro-independence.
@@xhinted690 Sure, but now go to Brussels or the UN and say that Catalans want independence because 27% of the census voted for pro-indepdencence parties.
@@frazzyten2447 i don't think it's so black and white. While agreeing with you that spain would never willingly approve it, it is also true that Catalonia is such a big part of spanish economy that not having any trade deal/close relationship with them would be a huge hit. So, I'm not so sure.
@@renatogolia211 Most companies have said they would leave Catalonia for Valencia already. In fact, around 1500 changed their central HQs from Barcelona to Alicante when the independence was suggested last time. So, i don't see it happening.
@@frazzyten2447 i don't ser why it wouldn't because on a scenario on wich Catalonia becomes independent there would have to be a change in the spanish constitution wich would mean that most of the people of Spain would be fine with It existing as a country and also I think Spain said that they wouldn't veto an indepeni scotland so I think they would accept it
I suggest the channel "Daniel Dumbrill" to you. Tibetan culture is thriving and life quality is higher than ever in China. I doubt you know anything about the serfdom and the cult under the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama himself is a position established by the Chinese Emperor. May I also remind you of the Nepali invasion of Tibet, where Chinese soldiers repelled the attack. The exile government in India is made up of descendants of former slaveholders, who are mad commoners live better lives in China than they do now. They like to distort historical facts. If you don't believe the Chinese, consult Nepali sources. Tibet has been part of China longer than the existence of most countries. For an independence movement, you actually need people onsite wanting that and not some outsiders who have no connection to their ancestral place.
@@bonnie115 unfortunately your brainwashing has made you unable to distinguish truth and fiction. So a phantom troll army must be created to fill your cognitive void.
Federalize the state. It's the only way. Spain's king should be playing a role by encouraging the integration of Catalan culture more fully into the Spanish identity.
He is, the Spanish royal family are some of the only high-ranking members of the Spanish state who speak fluent Catalan. King Felipe speaks Catalan, as does Princess Leonor, the heir to the throne.
the only way to federalize Spain is through a Republic, but I agree, it would be the best option. However, there ara a lot of communities that wouldn't work by itself economically, like both Castillas or Extremadura.
@@mennallinas Why on earth is a republic the only way to federalize Spain? There are plenty federal monarchies in the world; Belgium, Malaysia, Canada, Australia. Spain could just as well be a federal monarchy
@@LordDim1 because when Franco died, people voted in a referendum if they were for or against the Consitution, which included the fact that Spain would be a parlimentary monarchy always united. Of course, people voted for this change, rather than a possible continuation of the dictatorship. Basically the Borbon dinasty are the symbol of this centralist state, because that's what Juan Carlos wanted since the beggining.
@@mennallinas The Royal House of Belgium was also the symbol of the Belgian unitary state, until Belgium became federal in the 1980s, and they’re now the symbol of Belgian federal unity. Juan Carlos is no longer King, his original wish doesn’t matter. The current constitution can be amended to become federal without touching the monarchy. A federal monarchy would be a much better idea than a federal republic, as the king would represent all of Spain, not any particular state as a president would be more at risk of doing. As I already said, the royal family are already pretty much the only national institution which attempts to incorporate the various regional cultures of Spain; learning Catalan and basque for instance
they can be like switzerland and join the eea/efta or the single market, which i don't think can be vetoed by eu members? correct me if i'm wrong though, i'm not from europe
@@Armadeus you are right, catalonia could join the efta and enjoy most of the benefits of being in the eu and Spain couldn't veto it as they don't even belong to the efta
This was informative but you didnt say WHY. Why do they want independence, what did spain do in response, what would it look like and would an independent Catalonia be a member of the EU like Scotland wants.
Well i dont think so since every country in the union has to accept catalonia uniting the EU and Spain wont be very happy to do so because then the whole country disolves, the vasque country, Valencia, Galicia...
If you were to ask a separatist, they should show you a lot of points that don't add up and amount to propaganda. Really, it's all mostly dumb propaganda.
@@LordJike every kind of nationalism is dumb propaganda, and usually just brings social and economic problems. Catalonia was the best region in spain in terms of economics and innovation now Madrid has passed them and now they are the biggest economy in spain with 2 million people less
It would be great to see an episode on the dispute between Flanders and Wallonia in Belgium. Although, bear in mind that a lot of people will be pleased and or angry with these types of things. Even so, it would be great because you simply present the facts and there is little to no Bias in the reporting :)
Spain has jailed politicians in the 21st Century for sedition. The EU hasn't batted an eye. But it feels it has the moral high ground to preach to Russia about jailing political prisoners.
If you want a fairly difficult one to deal with I suggest the previous british guiana. 60% of its territory is claimed by Venezuela as the Esequibo, as it formed part of the previous region when under Spanish rule, then as part of Gran Colombia and subsequently Venezuela, They claim that the British stole part of their territory when the British discovered large amounts of gold on Venezuelan territory and altered maps in their favour. It is a 200 year old dispute with no agreement.
Didn’t talked about the election of 2017, which where after the 1-O. In that election, independentists weren’t the majority. Won more seats due to the electoral law.
@Oscar Grove Ni de coña voy a alegrarme de que VOX haya subido. Simplemente no pueden sacarse conclusiones claras de estas elecciones sobre qué opinan los catalanes sobre quedarse o no.
But the unionist forces were also not the majority in the 2017 election. In fact the pro-independence forces held a simple majority of the popular vote in that election. It is a complicated topic and clearly it would be wrong to say that either support for independence is slim or that the pro-independence hold a large majority.
@Oscar Grove Not true. In 2017 C's + PSC + PP had 43.45% of the popular vote whereas JUNTSxCAT + ERC-CatSí + CUP had 47.5%. The remaining 9.05% was divided in 7.46% CatComú-Podem (a pro-referendum party not explicitly against independence), 0.89% PACMA (an animal welfare party) and the remaining 0.25% was for RECORTES CERO-GRUPO VERDE (0.24%) and PU M+J (0.01%)
@Oscar Grove Comuns are not pro-independence but they are not anti-independence. They are just pro-referendum. That is all that can be said about them, because it is possible as a party to not have an explicit stance on the issue and just support a referendum.
In 1995 Quebec had an independence referendum and the result was very close. If this election had gone the other way then the last 25 years of history would have been very different.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm mildly annoyed that they labelled the map in the thumbnail with "Spain" and "not Spain", instead of Spain and Spain't
España and Espa-no
which will soon became Spain and not Spain
AH, sunny Spain. Or 'North Gibraltar' as I like to refer to it.
So oslo, Portugal is west Gibraltar?🎗
Keep sucking up, Lazi.🎗🤣
We want the disputed territories series!
On the one hand yes, but on the other I can see the potential chance that them staying neutral means favouring one side by not being honest on who is in the wrong.
@@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc news isn't about who is in the wrong. It is listing known facts about current series of events and their impacts. Not speculation, morality or judgment.
@@KelticStingray Except sometimes you just have to say that one side is wrong. Like the storming of the capitol. There was no evidence of the stuff they were claiming and then they stormed the capitol (i.e. it is the right and factually accurate thing to condemn the people storming the capitol).
@ჶ Troopa3xd ჶ What exactly do you mean?
@ჶ Troopa3xd ჶ Why should I (if I understand your point)?
While a series on disputed regions would certainly be interesting, you're inevitably gonna make people pretty angry with it, lol.
I'm afraid you're right on this, almost all borders worldwide have been disputed,but I don't fault TLDR for trying to grow their audience!
thats the point of a dispute
@Shaun Donald Trump is proof of it
@@innocento.1552 "Yumpf bad orange man Drumpf is definitely equatable to Catalonia's situation!"
Grrrgh😉
I'd like to see the (pointless) dispute about the Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco summit between France and Italy.
@Aye Ayee yes, but it's the highest in the alps and can bring a lot of tourism.
If you want more context basically:
It was always Italian, but the French also claim it, In my opinion we can divide it, by putting the border there, but the french want it all.
Im italian and when i think about it I’m so embarrassed 😞
Just give it to Belgium.
@@hendrikdependrik1891 based 😂
There's a Treaty that says the border is on the watershed between the States, so one side is Italian, the other is French. But of course France wants it all...
The disputed territory in Cyprus would be interesting to learn more about
Interesting topic, but very difficult to discus on RUclips because of the political situation.
Last video's they did on the Turkey/Greece problems were very bad, i'd prefere a more mature channel to take that on :p
@Henry Bushell ooh ooh oooooh! Swing that handbag Henry!
@@estraume because of censorship.
Oh god no, I like my island not being mentioned in any shape or form thank you.
I mean, it sums up the recent history of the independence movement, but lacks the reason for its origin, which is what the title of the video talks about
The argument I see being thrown around is that Catalonia is so rich that it carries the entire Spanish economy. Something I very much disagree with.
@@subatenome It is a significant amount but in no way carries the country, that's delirious talking.
20% is quite a lot for a province that's not the country's capital and if the other 15 provinces have a joint effort of 60%, that's just a whole lot of money going to the capital with barely anything in return
@@nikolaradulovic5283 Barely anything in return? Catalonia enjoys an extremely high level of self-government within Spain.
Also take into account that Catalonia's relative weight in the Spanish economy has been going steadily down in the last few years. it's no longer the richest region but the 2nd, having been surpassed by Madrid, and per capita there are a few other regions that are richer. It used to be much higher as it was one of the few places in Spain that industrialized properly in the XIXth century, but that historical advantage is long gone as the rest of the country caught up.
@@juanpabloperezgomez4349 High Self-governance? Sorry? That is Navarra who doesnt pay taxes to the state.
Think that before Franco, Catalonia and the Basque Country were Foral. And after the death of Franco, Catalonia and Euskal Herria lost their rights because helped the republican back then. Navarra supported Franco and still have their rights.
As a Canadian this reminds me of the 1990s and Quebec. Would love to see a video summarizing that fight
How did they manage to get a referendum?
@@MrEnric98 A majority of members in Quebec's legislative assembly voted to conduct a referendum, that's how. Canada's provinces are semi-sovereign entities so they can pretty much do what they please in any area not constitutionally reserved to the national government. Canada's constitution has no provisions concerning secession of a province but it was generally recognized that a vote to leave in any province would have to be taken seriously on moral and democratic grounds. The Supreme Court's position was that secession had to be conducted legally, but both parties had a duty to conduct negotiations in good faith and that bad faith acts by either could undermine that side's standing in terms of international recognition.
Applying the Canadian good faith logic to the Catalan situation, you'd be hard-pressed to come to a conclusion of anything other than bad faith behaviour on the part of the Spanish government, as they, unlike in Canada, definitively rule out having a referendum on secession at all.
What you are not telling is that in case of a Quebecois secession, they will lose a sizable portion of territory towards the northeast, and be confined to strictly French-speaking areas. Just as Catalonia will be reduced on a significant way if excluded from them areas in which the majority are Spanish speakers, say, Tabarnia.🎗🤣
@@joselugo4536 tabarnia doesn`t exist. Invention.
Neither an independent Catalonia on the entire history of Humanity.
I normally love this channel's videos and I still believe that this video is well made. However, in this particular case in which the topic at hand is one I know particulary well, I feel like there are too many big omissions and massive details that have been omitted which paint things in a different light than they really are. Mind you, these omissions are not in favour of any particular side, rather they do not let people have the full picture. For example stating that the independence movement started in the 1920's does not make much sense: either you go to its roots several centuries earlier or you only mention the modern independence movement. Or saying that there was only a 43 percent turnover in the 2017 independence referendum without mentioning that pro-Spain voters mostly did not participate in the referendum whereas many pro-Independece people who wanted and tried to vote where not able because the police was trying to avoid the referendum to take place. Again: this does not mean that they are taking any one's side: in fact the omissions hurt both side's rethoric and of course I understand that they cannot do a one hour long video because they need the views, but this leads me to think that probably when they treat other country's issues that I am not well-versed in, maybe they are also omitting large pieces of information and I cannot get a well-rounded picture.
There are smart techno kids who have no first hand idea or real sensitivity of the topic of which they have so impressively digitalised. I like their cartoons too, mind.
Yes I also wonder, for instance I live in Northern Ireland and most people who talk about it unifying with southern Ireland have no idea what they are talking about
100% true
@@WizzardJC with Brexit and the border fight it’s looking more likely for y’all
Yes they do. They always misinform simply because they don't dive in deeper.
Imagine all Catalan-speaking (including its dialects) regions form a single nation….Catalonia, Valencia, Andorra, Sardinia, Southeastern France. Catalonia sends a lot of tax money to Madrid, but doesn’t get much from those tax proceeds.
Western Sahara’s independence movement could be quite interesting, I know Trump put some fuel on the fire before his term ended by recognizing Morocco’s sovereignty there
IDK if the current US government care about that region anyway. But knowing Biden they might undo the recognition just to piss Trump
They might not but I expect them to take a more Atlantic orientated shift in foreign policy and that would of course fit that narrative. Also with Biden’s push for strengthening democracy globally the oppression of Sahrawi’s might not go unnoticed.
I also think it’ll be important economically in the years to come with European countries creating stronger trading ties to sub Saharan Africa and the western coast is one of the safest regions of the Sahara. I expect the Moroccan gov to start implementing heavier handed policies in the south.
@@cathalkelley8751 the us goal is to sthregthen its interest. So as long as Morroco stay on good term with America than the us has no need to make a new enemy
@@cathalkelley8751 amd about the economic stuff Morroco had sign a deal with europe to sthrengthen economic ties as well to develop the region
Oppresion tf you talking about sahrawis are moroccans , if they were really buying for the creation of the sahrawi state why did they only fight Moroccos Claim , why not algerias sahara , and libyas and mauritanias , the polisario as a whole is a puppet of algeria , it was funded and created it to have revenge on Morocco over the sand war , the sahara and many regions were always moroccan but europeans carved us up and made my country as small as tunisia , sahrawis in morocco also are happy , my father is sahrawi descendant he identifies as moroccan , also the polisario current leader isnt even sahrawi hes a moroccan from marrakesh , the group also has done human and drug trafficking , they have done criminal acts to fund their group and overall you people still having the idea of supporting them is frankly quite idiotic
Spain has always been a very regional country. Asturias is different from Murcia, Catalonia is nothing like Seville and Extremadura's culture differs massively from that of the Basque Country.
Regionalism has always been a thing. Many people identify themselves as "galician" or "valencian" rather than "spanish". I'd even say that european sentiment is bigger than the national one, in some cases. Spain's nationalistic sentiment isn't generally strong, for a lot of historic reasons.
That being said, Catalonia has always had that strongly regional sentiment. Modern independence movements are the result of nearly 20 years of exploiting that sentiment for mere political gain, aided by Madrid's perpetual disdain and inability to deal with the subject. It's quite sad, imho. Yeah, Catalans have a culture different from Castillians, and so what? So do Asturians or Canarians and (pretty much) no one is asking for independence.
Now we find ourselves with a polarized society, two halves of a region believing in absolutely opposite ideals as a result of political irresponsibility. Dialogue is what this situation begs for, but sometimes I think the damage has already been done, and that even if independence doesn't happen, it will take at least a generation to clear today's issues. Many young people really believe that spain is a pseudo-fascist regime and that independence is the only answer to that. That's not gonna disappear in a few weeks, even if a referendum comes out against of independence.
The easiest* solution, in my opinion, is to have an equitable federalized system that's organized bottom-up, instead of a hyper-centralized state that pushes the same agenda on everybody whether it's suitable for their local situation or not.
"Madrid" has far too much power -- the national agenda should be decided by every region together, every region's agenda should be decided by every municipality together, and so on.
*Not _easy,_ mind. Just easier than the others.
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs That'd have a point if Spain was not already a federal state in all but name, and extremely decentralized. To say that "Madrid" has too much power completely misses the point.
Spain is a hyper-centralized state now? I really don't think that's true.
That's why "Spain is different"
Hypercentralized such as France?🗼🤣
We'd love to see discussions on these regions:
- Hong Kong
- Kashmir
- Taiwan
- Kosovo
- Northern Cyprus
- Palestine
- Crimea
Great way for the entire world to explode
Somaliland
@@helioseklipse they're entirely in china (the first two) and hope is to be abandoned
Some people just want to see the world burn
Repuplik of srpska
I think this video overlooked two big facts, which painted a distorted version of how Catalonians feel about this: 1. Since 2017 and before, polls have never shown a clear majority support for independence, with both options usually a few points below 50% (because of undecided respondents). What polls consistently show is that Catalonia is divided in two very polarized halves. 2. The results of both referendums have to be taken with a bunch of salt. Obviously, most people against independence was against the illegal referendums too, so they didn't show up. I was surprised you didn't mention the turnout of the 2014 consultation was a mere 37%. And the 2017 referendum was a huge mess, with no guarantees at all that the results were trustworthy.
The overview of the independence movement was very lacking too, without delving into its causes, motivations nor why it became so popular in the last decades.
I think the fact that, as of today, there's no clear majority support for indepedence shouldn't obscure the fact that around 70% supports holding a referendum, something that the Spanish government would go out of its way to prevent from happening. Often through the most authoritarian and questionable methods.
And let's not foget that the pro-independence bloc has consistently won every single election since the current movement started.
@@dionbaillargeon4899 democracy is a mistake
I think that holding a referendum is the only way to know where the actual majority stands, and i also think that the fact that Spain does everything it can not to grant a popular vote, also recurring to violent and shameful methods, is more eloquent than any discussion about possible voters.
@@arielschant9841 The thing is the goverment is obligated by law to enforce the constitution no matter which party is ruling or what they actually prefer to do.
@@lizerat If the constitution says that a people has no right to self-determination and the State has to smash senior citizens’ heads on the street because of their simple will to just make their voice heard (and in a time when self-determination of the people is so central to society), then the constitution has to be changed to better fit the time it is living.
The violent and/or repressive way the situation has been so far managed by the Kingdom looks like how authority worked in the 70’s, and it should not be part of what European citizenship means in this century.
Especially when millions of citizens are asking to be consulted whether not be subjects of a king anymore, and explore the option to transition into a parliamentary republic system.
It is just not right by any means not to grant them even the chance to a legally non-binding consultation referendum…
A video about the Italian Südtirol region and its willingness to be reannexed to Austria would be really interesting.
Reannexed is quite the thing to say since it was annexed by Italy in the first place.
@@jcup4702 yeah, and before that it was part of the austrian empire
I think the phrase you’re looking for is: to be returned to Austria
@@reichtangle7734 And the territory of Istria must return to Italy.
Well, this is due to both Austria and Italy, and Italy lost Riviera and Corsica to France. And Dalmatia. They played badly. Both actually.
Fair play for taking on topics which are, by definition, contentious. I'm looking forward to more videos in the series!
In Belgium is there something simular going whit Flanders and Wallonia. And we now got a goverment since the last video :). Sidenote I think Puidgimont got refuge in Flanders when Spain wanted to arrest him.
@@DrBreadstick While economically it sounds good. I think there will be a lot of resistance to this idea. Especially from the Flemish side.
@@Roeckx if I may, why do you think this idea would be met resistance in flanders ? As a frenchspeaking belgian from brussels, I have met a few walloons who said they wouldn't mind becoming french should Belgium separate since the language is essentially the same. Does this feeling also apply to flemish and dutch people or not at all ?
@@vincentdegheyndt3609 independence is not the same as becoming part of a bigger country. I think most Flemish prefer to be part of Belgium than being a part of a bigger Netherlands.
What the Flemish want, is more control over their own laws, not independence. With the different reorganisations of Belgium, most of the demands have been met and it is no longer seen as an aspirational future.
@@vincentdegheyndt3609 There is a certain pride among the Flemish. So splitting Belgium just too merge with the Netherlands wouldn't sit well I think. But this is just my opinion that I have with anecdotal evidence.
I also believe that a Flanders-Netherlands merge would be economically very strong. But with Antwerp being the second largest port in Europe and Rotterdam being the first. There is a certain fear that the focus would shift more to the port of Rotterdam. (I work in the port of Antwerp btw) This way the benefit would be more for the Netherlands than Flanders.
@@MLV1000 there is some comment in this capslock
You guys should do a video on the Western Sahara, it is usually over looked when talked about disputed areas, but it is pretty important for most North African relations.
Nothing to talk about here . As long as the algerian military regime back these mercenaries they will always be tensions now Morocco is ready to support also the Kabyle independence in north Algeria . Fire with fire
What's mor important is The independance of Kabylia and the Touaregs lands that are colonized by the algerian army
Im from layoune sahara. Sahara was always moroccan
If you’re feeling brave you could cover Cornish Independence
Thats a thing?
@@tomrogue13 yeah in a way they want to be separated from being called Devon and Cornwall and call themselves cornwall and then deven will be devon/devonshire. I also think they should kind of separate In terms of region. cornish do have there different ways to that of devonshire lot
@@Pdh24 the only problem being Cornwall and Devon are too of the poorest counties
@@Pdh24 I'm not sure what you mean, because Devon and Cornwall are already separate counties with their own councils.
@@tomrogue13 google the Mebyon Kernow party, they’ve got 4 seats in Cornwall council and want Cornwall to be a country within the United Kingdom like Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, as opposed to a county of England
*No 1: Don't Only Hope On Government For Income,*
*No 2: As An Individual Look For Different Self Income Not Only Waiting on Monthly Wages,*
*No 3: Always Save The Little You Can And Think Of What To Do With It When It Become Good For Capital.*
*It's 100% Good To Have Different Ways To Gain Income*
*Because Government have failed us so therefore let's try and survive*
Yes ! For real It is very important to have different streams of income and a diversified portfolio as for me I have already invested in crypto which is very profitable and easy to gain
Exactly I'm also happy to start investing too than to have my money sleeping in bank
Stocks are good but we have to make the right plans
Yes Stocks are good but they are alot of businesses more convenient than stocks
That’s the fact well I only invested in stocks and will love to know a better investment too
Danke!
Guys, I would appreciate if you will do a video on Transnistria. A very complex, yet such a neglected issue. Greetings from Moldova.
I'd love a series on disputed regions and independence movements. One about Belgium wanting to slip in 2, I've heard about that idk if Belgians support it tho, could be good. Spain is full of independence movements aren't they?
And what happened with the Independence Movement for The Isle of Dogs? 😉
In Spain there are separatist movements in three regions: Catalonia, Basque Country and Galicia.
It isnt surprising at all. Most countries of the world have at least a territory with separatist movements.
@@MiguelLopez-yc2rh not only those I'd also add movements in the other 2 Catalan speaking autonomies, they're not as important tho (and I'd add that Basque country isn't only a thing at the Basque country itself but Euskal Herria (Basque Country + a part of Navarre)
@@edwardoleyba3075 What's that, I have no clue what your on about?
@@tsareric1921 . It was a bit of a spoof movement some years ago. The Isle of Dogs is in east London. They wanted their own local council there.
Guys you have to put the precentage of people that voted in the non-binding referendum not just the result, otherwise the % of the votes are meaningless. Come on get your shit together.
There's no official turnout figure, but estimations put it between 37 and 41%.
@@juanpabloperezgomez4349 I know but that should be mentioned like the binding referendum.
@@dom968 I mean they did. Skip to 7 minutes in and they literally mention it.
@@user-ku3bu7se8n (5:15) is the 2014 non-binding referendum which TLDR gave no % percentage of voter turn out. (19:00) is the 2017
@@dom968 Yeah, that's definitely info that should have been there.
the high pro-independent result on both referendums is because unionist boycotted it from the get-go and many did not vote, it does not really mean much. Polls are more reliable and it has been a toss-up for more than a decade now (btw pre 2005 independentist were a tiny minority many Catalans still believing on enhanced self-governance via constitutional reform)
That is not the case. 43% of the census has shown to be in favour, which means that with a turnout of 80% in a referendum accepted by Spain, the Yes has chances to win with no doubt.
@@bernatboschfolch go to a stats class please
@@bernatboschfolch 43% was the turnout
Catalan here. The topic is definitely hard to tackle in a 10 min video. Probably not intentionally, but some of the simplifications made seem inspired from a ERC pamflet. Separatists don't have a clear majority in popular support, but due to the election law get always the control of the government. Shouting referendum and democracy doesn't make them more democratic, the laws they passed before the October referendum are against the most basic democratic principles. Independence is a very legit political goal, but not by any means. A referendum with a 50℅ cut is clearly not a way to solve this issue (it might be the last resort for a war torn country, but catalan society is still strongly embedded in Spain). Looking at Scotland, it worked for a few years... Once a yes is passed, will we held referendums for reunification?
All it does is split catalan society along national axis. The former government coalition had anticapitalist with free market lovers "working" together, which is why we went to elections. And the same coalition seems to build as only alternative after the veto of erc to psc. During these times ig crisis, see a government more occupied for infighting between independentist factions and undermining central government did not bring joy, probably also why many people didn't go to vote. We're back at the start, they talk about a new unilateral referendum, groundhog day
Last elections separatists got more than 50% of popular vote
Good points Pau. Do not compare Scotland with Catalonia. Scotland would be asking to join the EU. Catalonia would be leaving. And Spain would not consent to an Independent Scotland whilst it can fastidiar with its EU vote.
@@MrDrbld good point as well. I just used the example of Scotland to show that a referendum is not the ultimate solution as it is tirelessly repeated by catalan separatists. Although many similarities can be drawn, Scotland and Catalonia are different in many ways.
On that note catalans want independence but would see leaving the EU as a last resort to acquire independence and would like to join back in despite the obvious opposition of Spain.
And the Spanish state fearing an independent Scotland, or any independence movement within the EU is... Understandable at best. This is all "molt complicat"
Es veritat. However, one must prioritise what is achievable in the current circumstances. Making society ungovernable in pandemic is no help. All economies have been savaged by the Coronavirus as if by some kind of war. Catalan voters seem split still, so impasse, politically. Independance now? Makes sense if Catalonia would be better off as a consequence, but that does not look to be the case for next few years. BTW, the Scottish cause has just been set back by, well, corruption and political infighting. So looks like Spanish cohesion is the better situation short term because Catalans will get the benefits of a stronger state aid system backed by the EU.
@@MrDrbld I can't agree more. Although we are pretty good at corruption and political infighting, both in Madrid and Barcelona
Spain is somewhat of a champion in disputed borders... 3 exclaves in Morocco, Olivença, Gibraltar, all the separatist states...
And an exclave in France and an island that they share with France that 6 month of the year is Spanish territory and the 6 others French lol
@@MLV1000 it actually brings xenophobia in general. It is creating hispanophobia in Catalonia and Catalanphobia in the rest of Spain.
@@alexderamon2060 Calling it an island is maybe too much. It is super small piece of land in the middle of a river with nothing in it. Calling it "an exclave" is a little much.
Meanwhile the UK.
Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Falklands, Antarctica, every fucking island in the Pacific.
Believe me, Spain is nowhere close.
All the separatist states? Just as a pointer, Spain has no states but regions (technically the name is Autonomous Comunities). But, as far as my knowledge goes, the only two separatist movements are Catalonia and the Basque Country (which is now not very buoyant).
I'd like to see coverage on the Basque independence movement!!
How can you call the 2017 "vote " a referendum ?
This so called referendum was held only by independentist, there were no list of registered voters (someone could vote multiple time at the same location), they counted vote before the end and with only independentist present.
This was a political manifestation but absolutely not a referendum.
There were voters rolls, you had your polling place defined (like in any other election) to avoid double-voting, and there was an additional internet backup system to also avoid double-voting.
When an armed terrorist organization destroys voting places, violently attacks voters all around the country in a coordinated attack, and disable phones and internet to avoid the validation in place, then you have to make do with watever you have on hand.
But you would not want to stop democracy just because a few ultra-nationalist terrorists coordinated violent attacks with foreign operatives on the day of the election, right?
@Jofre the video I have seen, no one checked the voter rolls. But I was not there so I will not contest it.
But calling the Spanish police a terrorist organization is very extreme and completely discredit everything else you might say.
I agree that the repression was a lot more violent that it needed to be. But when terrorist armed group launch a coordinated action, there are usually dozens of death (Paris attack for instance). So maybe you should adapt your vocabulary.
@@Bb13190 There was an attempt to use the voter rolls, but as I said, the government took down the internet to block online verification, and physically and violently took the written voter rolls from the places they could access. This is why the videos on the afternoon (when the Spanish government let the press record) don't show the voter rolls.
The concept behind the police attacks during the referendum was not to stop the vote --it was too late for that. The concept was to literally terrorize any potential voter into not voting. If there is an organization that wants to cause terror through violent attacks in order to achieve their political goals, I would call the organization terrorist.
Yes, there were no dead people directly because of the violence (there were dead people because of police blocking emergency services), but the violence caused 900 wounded, so I would also not say "it was nothing".
5:19 that referendum was a flop literally less than 40% of people participated cmon now.... and the 2017 one was completely chaotic.
Yeah, in the 2017 one, testimonies of people being able to vote 7 times and very low participation of non-independentist as they didn't recognise the validity of such referendum.
Yeah pretty poor reporting not to mention that a poll declared unconstitutional before it even occurred was likely to dissuade unionists from participating more than it would dissuade separatists.
@@ishrod_tweaks Then why is the Spanish government so afraid of making a referendum? And if there are more people against them in favor of independence why did the independents win the parliament?
@@joaolaja5961 Because the Spanish Constitution clearly states that the unity of Spain is indissoluble. There’s literally no legal framework for holding this referendum unless Spain were to draft a new Constitution. We have similar language in the US.
@@jalenbrown1363 A referendum doesn't jeopardize the unity of Spain, it is just a question to determine if the population wants Catalonia to become an independent state in the form of a republic.
In 2014 a referendum was held, in which 80% of voter answered yes to independency... but something important is missing. ONLY 43% of the population voted in that referendum, voters for yes, mostly. The rest of the population (mostly voters for no) did not vote, because the referendum was illegal.
You'd likely not want to touch this subject with a 10 foot pole, and I don't blame ya, but I'd love to hear your take on the Palestinian Authority, Gaza and the territories occupied by Israel (yes, you can hear the bias in the question).
It's not biased lol, what they are doing is against un law
@@evolution__snow6784 I meant I am biased (well, actually, every one is - I'm just being upfront about it). I'm not stating my bias, though, but you are welcome to guess at it :-)
@@evolution__snow6784 you know what? I fixed the question to be slightly less biased (I believe - I am, after all - biased - so I may be wrong about this).
There was no bias the comment it was 100% factual without any bais
To touch that from a 10 foot pole? Not even by remote controled robots across a continent and inside of a bunker lol
9:50 i think you should do Northern Ireland
Maybe I’m biased because I literally live 300 meters from the border in a town split in half by it, but I really think an analysis of the Irish border is needed just to show the reality of it to a lot of people
You might need a whole series...
@@jetwaffle1116 in what way?
Most of northern Ireland do not want to merge. Wouldn't be the same video at all
@@TheMarineGamerIGGHQ it could be more focused on that historical aspect and explaining the troubles?
Szeklerland in Romania would be nice to include too. It's rarely talked about in English. :)
Hahaha where are you from?
Agree
Ön magyar?
Transnistria would be interesting to be covered in this channel.
And this is why Scotland leaving the UK and joining the EU is so stupid, spain would never allow Scotland to Join, imagine the confidence that would give the Catalans.
Omg, how many times has that claim already been debunked.
@@ab-ym3bf if you truly believe that I question you're ability to comprehend geopolitics. Country states will always do what's in their best interest. A independent Scotland is contrary to Spain's best interest.
But Lil'England is beyond the EU borders, why Spain would care for a non-member?
@@joselugo4536 Because it would send a message to the Catalans that if you gain independence you can just join the EU and everything will be fine and dandy, which goes completely against Madrid's agenda. Therefor it would be in the best interest of Spain to block Scottish accession.
As the UK is no longer a member of the EU it doesn't apply the rule of not allowing a new member carved out from a member state. Catalonia would lose membership inside the European Union if it declared an unilateral independence, because SPAIN is a standing member STATE.
Here in Scotland we had a legally binding referendum in 2014 in which both sides promised to respect the result. That lasted 5 minutes before the nationalists started harping on about having another one..
The thing with referendums is that it is easy for them to become nerverendums.
These sorts of independence referenda are extremely one-sided too, because unionists will need to win every single referendum in perpetuity, while nationalists only need to win once. The SNP will continue to try to have a referendum again and again and again until they get the result they want
A great video altogether! However, when showing the results of the 2017 referendum it might be interesting to note that most people against independence did not vote due to the unconstitutionality of the matter. This is a more accurate reflection of the division of the Catalonian people on this topic.
Yeah, I remember reading in the NY Times about that... man, 2017 feels like 20 years ago now 😓 But the voter turnout was low enough that the seemingly high percentage for independence wasn't reliable. Do you remember what the turnout was? I'm pretty sure it was less than 50%
@@chris7263 yes, but obviously when you fear getting injured by the police if you vote, a lot of people decided that it wasn't worth it. in my family alone there where 4 people 60+ years old who decided they were too afraid to vote. Democracy in it's purest style, and the the same people that send the police claim that turnout was low... Yes, that referendum can't be taken to claim independence but it's clear a referendum is necessary.
There were only a campaign in favour of independence. This was not a referendum, was a 😂 silly proclamation of independence. The majority of people don't go to vote because they were against independence. This referendum was unconstitutional and illegal.
South-Tyrol independence/reunification with Austria would make for an interesting video since almost all parties in their regional parliament are autonomist or seperatist (except the far right LN).
Really?
Separatism in Italy is overinflated.
Il Sud Tirolo è e sempre rimarrà italiano, punto. Non daremo mai più occasione all'Austria di valicare il confine.
@@bajlozi6873 Hmm?
@@FlagAnthem Well i mean technically the whole north wants to separate but South Tyrol has another language, culture and history than the rest of italy so its probably the most likely to separate...
Europe is getting so much countries, we will get to a point where every city is a country...
Millions is an overstatement...
I am literally busy doing geography homework on Andalusia.
The indepedence on my opinion is a bad decision for them since they are already a part of EU. Even if they gained independence they would most likely have to apply to join the EU and spain would veto their admission. It just isn’t worth it.
Even if they Spain refused them joining the EU, they can sign unilateral treaties, like any basically every country in the world. Plus, they are the richest province in Spain, if they leave, they won't be dragged down by the rest of Spain anymore.
Micheal Davis
Spain can veto treaties with the eu which is catalonia‘s biggest partner, therefore it would have a bad economic effect. It can also pressure other countries to not sign bilateral treaties with catalonia, like china does with other nations in the case of taiwan.
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Actually, when they suggested independence 1500 companies left Catalonia. And it was not a real independence declaration. Soooo... no.
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Catalonia is not the richest region of Spain by any metric.
@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Spain can veto all the agreements with EU. Unilateral treaties with each member states wouldn't work, because most of the competences on that matter was transferred to the European union. There is also the enormous problem of euro. Catalonia outside of the European union wouldn't be allowed to use the European currency anymore. So economically it could represents an enormous disruption
I'm from a region called La Rioja Next top the Basque country and I feel spanish, although I can understand in some ways catalans people (as I've been there and I have many friends) I see a lot of people feeling Spanish there and they are really not that different from spaniards in other regions.
This conflict is being used by politicians to hide corruption and bad legislative policies, on one side and and the other.
So I don't see Catalonian Independence happening in the near future.
With all respect, let's unite and not divide.
Best regards
Thank you for this video.
I remember seeing a Poll Catalunya wanting independence but weird enough was that many people in Barcelona voted against it. Imagine an independent Catalunya without the Main city.
Not to mention the polls were illegitimate with only a quarte of the people actually voting, and even then getting less than half
most people who live in barcelona are not catalan
You guys missed why there is such a strong sense of nationalism which goes back to medieval times. The video gives the impression that it is very recent, and while there have been some major events in recent years, the history goes way back.
It’s never been as strong as now because hispanophobia has never been institutionalised as it is now. The strongest nationalisms prior to the current one occurred in the XVIII century
That's like saying that Nazism goes way back because it talks about the origins of the German people and the Holy Roman Empire. Let's be honest, all nationalism tries to justify itself in history, that's what is all about, but the current political movement's roots are what they are, just like Nazism started with a certain moustached fellow and not with the existence of the Germanic tribes.
Absolutely! The world (at large) doesn't even know "Catalunya", let alone knowing the hundreds-of-years history between this country and Spain, before the territory of "Spain" even existed, and Catalunya was its own, independent nation.
@@SimplyHealthTips Well technically it was the Kingdom of Aragon, which had the area of Catalunya comprised within it, but also other areas. Just to be technical👌
@@SC00B52 Yes. True. Catalan was spoken in the area, although I wasn’t there at the time. ;-)
Well the main problem with Catalonias independence is that the Spanish Constitution very clearly states that the Territories and Autonomous Communities that constitute the territory of Spain are UNDIBISIBLE. Thats why the referedum was deemed ilegal before it even happened because it very clearly goes against the constitution.
In order to let Catalonia make a binding referendum for indepence the Constitution would have to be reformed first, wich is incredible hard needing a majority of 2/3s of the chamber to rerwite the
Preliminary Title wich is the one that covers this topic. This is incredibly hard not only in general but given the new political model of several parties in power that Spain has been having for the last years it's pretty much imposible to pass a Constitutional reform of said Title and of course Nation-wide parties don't want Catalonia to go independent because it's one of, if not, the wealthiest regions in Spain and the Independent movement it's pretty unpopular outside of Catalonia.
Furthermore reforming the Constitution to allow this kind of independent movements would really damage Spain as whole since not only Catalonia but both Galicia and the Basque Country have strong independent movements.
So as of right now the only way of achieving Catalonian indepence is through an armed conflict, wich, ain't gonna happen'.
It will happen something similar. We’ll be independent
I mean, the notion that “well the country that controls them now has to change their constitution first so they can’t be independent sorry” is imperialist dog shit, democracy decides, not bureaucracy
@@ninjacole803 they signed the constitution, didn't they?
@@sanjayrai2934 the constitution was dictated to them before the region had any autonomy, by a pseudo-facist dictator. So no, not really
@@ninjacole803 no I mean by reconquista
Catalonia: We are not Spain!
Portugal: That's my boy!
Catalonia 7,5 million cirizens , only 1,2 millions want to be independents, i am from catalonia and the mayority of catalan population want to be spaniards
That is just a lie. You count the votes against all the population.
Please spanish people, stop ashaming yourself.
Holeeeeee!!!
@@zen370865 Ya no sois 2 millones los movilizados por la causa, habrá que ir asumiéndolo. Sois el 27% del censo y en 2017 erais el 37%
@@zen370865 Not all critics of the 'procés' are Spanish. Others know about the "3%" extra commision to get things done, hilarious debt of the Generalitat, the immigration problem, the black economy and the propaganda machine called TV3. Get real. Catalonia used to produce things - Pharma, Automóvil, Textile, Publishing as opposed to the rest of Spain. Not anymore.
Moreover, the EU will never support 'independent' status to Catalonia despite - and most likely because of - the hysterical flag, language and identity propaganda from the nationalists. The legacy of the "3%" cronyism such as with the Pujol Dynasty puts off FDI. La Caixa, Banc Sabadell and many major corporations already moved their HQs outside of Catalonia just upon hearing that there could be an independent regime that would assume control over their holdings. A vote of no confidence from the very assets the nationalists think are 'Catalan'.
An "independent" Catalonia is outside the Schengen; with no Euro and financing from Brussels; it would have a colossal obligation for public sector workers wages and pensions; no competitive advantage such as a strong currency; no independant army. An "independent" Catalonia would be a ruinous, weak and immiserated place unable to defend itself and prostrated before its former biggest trading partners - Aragon, Valencia and Madrid and France and likely a vassal state of the Chinese. Most dolorous for the majority would be that it would be excluded from the Spanish league. Its inhabitants and impoverished, hard working taxpayers would be hardest hit. The Spanish economy would also be severely impacted, so central government will not allow it. Rather inconvenient.
A better future for Catalonia is in a higher technology ecosystem and a skilled population trading as a Spanish autonomy closely cooperating with Madrid, a likely mega hub competing with... Miami. There will be no Brexit factor for Catalonia, Brexit now being considered a runaway success. Catalonia is not UK
@@zen370865 There's a great book written by a great Catalan. It's called "Ni Som, ni serem". Very sobering. Te lo recomiendo.
I'm from Puerto Rico, so, I would love to see your take on Puerto Rico's status issue.
The video is missing a fair bit of context:
1: The Spanish Constitution does not allow for unilateral referendums. If Catalonia wants to secede, it must be by modificating the Constitution, or the conflict will continue
2. The rise of Catalan Nationalism in the 2010s is heavily linked to big corruption scandals in Catalonia, look up the name Jordi Pujol
3. This last Catalonia elections had a 50% participation due to the pandemic
Provided that it is demographically impossible that Catalonia, through its representatives in the Spanish Parliament & Senate, even with allies from other regions, enacts a constitutional reform allowing for a referendum, your dichotomy only leaves the option of continuing the conflict. Regardless of one's point of view, this is a rather dire solution (or lack thereof).
@@6abril1991 I agree, the current system does not leave much room for these kind of changes to happen. But the solution should not be to bypass every basic law and do whatever you please, we have clear evidence that this approach just leads to more conflict and polarization.
It is a complex issue with an even more complex solution, but I think we can all agree that both political sides have failed to deal with the situation in a realistic and serious way.
It's become an endless circus that feeds the media and social movements with no real political development to back the noise.
Point 1. was covered, point 2. would have been interesting, but given how old the movement is, it seems a tad unfair to put it down solely to that, and point 3. should have been mentioned. In any case it does not seem like the movement has enough support to justify seceding from Spain - such a thing should _just_ be down to the popular vote, not down to a majority in parliament that was achieved by other means, and the popular vote should have a clear majority (such as 2/3 or 3/4) and a large turnout, so people only voting on a whim don't swing it.
50% of a 50% turnout really doesn't cut it.
@@6abril1991 Ese argumento podría ser aplicado a cualquier subconjunto minoritario del país hasta el individuo.
@@MalloonTarka Point 2 might seem unfair to you, but the reality is that the old CiU was never out and out independentist, and only became so (radically changing the political balance in Catalonia and triggering the current stage) when hounded by the courts after their decades of corruption were exposed, and wrapping themselves in the Catalan separatist flag was their only way of surviving politically. I can respect ERC's independentism because that was always in their genes, so to speak, but it's much more difficult to do the same for Ciu/Junts.
Catalonia and Spain: arguing over independence.
Meanwhile Portugal thinking Olivença lookin Hella thick
Actually Together for Catalonia the ERC and the Popular Unity Candidacy, didn't reach 50% of the vote. All three combined reached 48%, is when you add up the numbers of the also independentist Catalan European Democratic Party, a party seceded from Together for Catalonia that takes a more moderate stance on the independence issue, it's more right-wing and didn't achieve representation this election that you get more than 50% of the votes. 52% if you include the even smaller parties.
The Western Sahara, for sure! Between the renewed war between Morocco and the SADR and the seeming trade of US recognition of Morocco’s claim to the territory for Moroccan recognition of Israel, it is definitely an overlooked region.
true!!! btw i wouldn't go so far as to call it a renewed war since there is only skirmishs.
A video about the italian Ladin communities would be interesting. The 5 groups, Cortina, Fassa, Fondom, Gardena and Badia, were essentially split up between 3 provinces and are, to this day, politically dominated by the german and italian language group. Despite beeing a minority language in italy, the oldest to be exact, they still dont have the same rights as German and French minorities. For example German and French have german/french translations on their documents, while ladin people dont.
The Falkland Islands will be an awesome episode! Although it requires a lot of study about the subject from both sides!
He already released the Falkland episode on the TLDR UK channel
@@nicobortoluzzi8724 If i don't remember wrong, they only explanied the British Overseas Territories, not the dispute itself.
A complete video dedicated to the topic!!
A disputed regions series would be awesome
Surely the tiny turnout in the referendum is relevant? The vote was already declared illegal so the only people willing to vote were those who were the most passionate in their view, ie mostly those looking for independence. I would argue it's dishonest to not mention the tiny turnout.
Polling for Catalan independence gives support at 40-45%, whereas the 2017 referendum had a yes vote of 92% and a turnout of 43%. Are you starting to see a little bit of a discrepancy there? The vast majority of unionists didn't vote because why would they?
@@MLV1000 as a Brit, I see the EXACT same story going on in Scotland rn too.
Sadly not many even care about the turn out in any referendum or election. No politician, political pundit, or media member cares especially.
@@MLV1000 actually, it's 400 years ago which was when King James became the king of England (yes, I am aware of the act of union being 1707).
@@arnavketineni7836 pretty sure they never were. First they were a county under the Frankish Empire, then a principality under the Crown of Aragon, and then Aragon and Castille joined and eventually became Spain. So no, never an independent country.
@@arnavketineni7836 Yes.
5:39 An independent Catalonia would be plaged specially in the mayor cities by millions of Spaniards which would cause a massive migration of spaniards which would result in businesses closing Spain being overrun by refugees and Catalonia economically destroyed.
Voy a la playa y habia subido la marea
keep dreaming
Why would the Spaniards migrate out of Catalonia? If it’s where they already live and work, why wouldn’t they continue living there?
@@Cheddar2012 because they aren't catalan, one complain of secessionists I've heard is that catalonia is overrun by andalusians and other spaniards
@@santi2683 But if they live and work there, wouldn’t they get Catalan citizenship if Catalonia left Spain?
7:16 *president, even though we are a constitutional monarchy it’s different than the UK's, in Spain the king doesn’t have such an important or venerated role, you can see this just by comparing the UK crown and the Spanish crown.
Edit: I forgot, we also call the leaders of autonomous regions president.
Edit2: The independence polls can be a bit confusing because there are different degrees of pro-Spain/pro-Catalonia, for example there are moderates in each side(more so in pro Catalonia) right wingers(more so in pro-Spain) and leftists (there are a lot on each side and also vary in degree)
The official translation of the Presidente del Gobierno in English is Prime Minister of Spain. The Spanish king has very similar constitutional powers to the British monarch
@@LordDim1 Yes, the spanish king does have some similar powers to the british one, only diference is that the spanish king has less off it and is very clearly marked as king under the rule of thumb of the people (technically) as when a new monarch is proclamed they don't put the crown on their head and the crown is also pretty dull compared to other european ones. To add to this, due to the scandals of king emeritus and his nomination as successor of a fascist dictator has greatly decreased their popularity.
I think you should have addressed the reasons for the autonomy movement more in depth - I haven't really understood why catalonia wants to be independent at all
Two reasons: their own language and a stronger economy than other regions from Spain. Yes, it is stronger precisely because they are part of Spain and yes they would suffer if they ever leave because they would be surrounded by the EU single market and EU allies (like Turkey, Argelia or Morocco) and Spain would probably never let them in the EU for decades if not centuries.
But, much like Brexiters, Catalonia independentists focus on feelings over facts.
Spanish person here. You're missing some context in this video: most of the atricles striken from the statute of autonomy were already approved (and confirmed constitutional) in other regions' statutes. The same happened with a lot of laws that were considered "inconstitutional" or "illegal" when approved in the catalan government, but are perfectly leglal and constitutional when approved in another region or the central government.
The context on this video seems like catalans are independentists because of some cultural or historical reason, but for the majority of people, the Spanish government is using Catalonia as a scapegoat for a long time, and just discussing "the catalan issue" to avoid legislating on any other thing, which is why the social protections have been going down for all Spanish people in the last couple of decades. Most of the independentists (or "secessionists", as are called on this video), are just tired of how the central government treats Catalonia. The scary thing if Catalonia ever becomes independent is to think what region is going to be the next scapegoat.
BTW, about using "secessionists" vs "independentists", they have different connotations (at least in Spain):
- When using "secessionists", you imply there's a Spanish nationality and identity that would be broken. This is commonly used by the far right.
- When using "independentists", you imply there's a different cultural identity and that people want to regain their own rights.
To put it in a way easy to understand for somebody on the UK:
- Indians wanting to stop being a colony were "independentists".
- The people in the City of London who want to separate from the UK to create a tax heaven are "secessionists".
I am assuming your current Spanish proofreader is not from Catalonia, for how this video was presented. I encourage you to find a Catalan proofreader for issues related to Catalonia (and have Catalonia-related videos proof-read by both), since you'll be a lot more neutral this way.
"he Spanish government is using Catalonia as a scapegoat for a long time, and just discussing "the catalan issue" to avoid legislating on any other thing"
Why was the catalan issue an issue to begin with, though? I mean, I find it plausible that government after government resort to this as a way of diverting attention, but there must have been something there beforehand. Why?
--
"Most of the independentists (...) are just tired of how the central government treats Catalonia"
From an outsider point of view, this is what sparks the most curiosity. It's a superbly rich region where life seems to be better than average in Spain itself - already a rich country. What exactly is it that makes people so angry over there? I totally get the historical feud with Franco suppressing minority languages, but why now?
---
Another question: is there any difference between the autonomous status of the Basque region and Catalonia's?
Thanks!
It is funny that you call yourself a Spanish person when you describe the Spanish police as "an armed terrorist organization".
Estoy acuerdo con la mayoría de los puntos que has puesto ahí, especialmente que la definición y la selección de termos es muy importante, pero una pregunta si tengo: Tu llamarías el movimiento independista un movimiento nacionalista? Porque yo soy de Alemania y ahí todo lo que tiene que ver con Independentismo y Nacionalismo está considerado derecha y conservador. Mi única intención es entender este movimiento profundamente, porque tengo amigos catalanes y al final de discusiones siempre acabamos en el punto de la identidad catalana. Yo entiendo la decepción y la rabia que tienen los catalanes contra el estado español y por eso creo que la Independencia es la única manera de salir de este conflicto, pero me preocupa el odio y el crecimiento de una identidad catalana superior a la española. Espero que me puedes dar respuestas útiles.
@@gdf_6c I am not from Catalonia but I am a Galician living in Euskadi so I will try to answer your last question. Both Euskadi and Navarra have very different self governing administrations than the rest of the Spanish Communities. It is call Foral System, and it's a very complicated thing that comes from the Spanish succession war, the Carlist wars and way back in history. But basically, in all the other communities, like Catalonia, the central state gives the money to the Community, and the Community decides to do with it what it can; but in Euskadi and Navarra, they get their own money from taxing their citizens, and they pay the central government whatever they have to, in order to pay for the services that the central government provides (like highways and trains). Sorry if I am not explaining myself clearly haha I am not an economist.
@@Bb13190 A lot of countries use the police as a terrorist organization. Do you know any Argentinian?
Spain: Morocco should give right of auto determination to Sahara
Also Spain: we will never accept Catalonia auto determination
RIP logic
Western Sahara has been a separated region from moroco for almost 135 years (Since the Spanish crown anexed it) and even before all the territories that are part of Western Sahara weren´t controled by Morroco. Catalonia has never been independent on its own (It has always been part of either Spain or Aragon). I don´t know about you, but i think there is more than a small diference between those two territories
@@thinkforamoment770 this is not about being separated or never been that, it about what people there want
Autodetermination doesn't take in consideration hostory but the will of inhabitants
@@thinkforamoment770 Spain’s claim on Western Sahara is upon self determination, not history. Since they claim that, they would have to give independence to Catalonia as well. Else it is double standards
@@ibrahimyilmaz4861 But it is not only Spain's claim, there is also a wide international concern about Western Sahara status. Internacional community is still waiting for the referendum that was part of the peace agreement of 1991. Keep in mind Western Sahara is a subject of decolonization, a non autonomous territory with no political rights. That is the reason why they deserve a selfdetermination referendum. Catalonia can not invoke internacional law, but must change Spanish fundamental law, the Constitution of 1978.
@@eduardopedrosredondo1193 Morocco claims Western sahara on grounds of its border pre colonisation which in fact include Western Sahara. One cannot wish for this territory to be „free“ while objecting to Catalan independence on grounds of „it being against Spanish Fundamental law“. I’m sure it is against Morocco’s Fundamental law as well for a territory to separate.
I would like to ad that the turnout was only ~53% (2017:~79%), so a legal mandate would be slim.
and the "unionist" parties didnt campaign, instead told people to stay home
Edit: I mean on October 1st 2017, during the (deemed illegal) referendum
@@MsPerchero That's absolutely false, of course they campaigned.
@@MsPerchero That is a lie. They campaigned and they told everyone that it was safe to vote and they encouraged everyone to vote. It's easy to find videos of Illa, Garriga, Carrizosa and Fernández all encouraging people to vote.
@@pol... we are talking 2017s 1-O, not last month
@@MsPerchero In that case you are absolutely right. The pro-union forces did, in their majority, not vote in the 2017 referendum. However there was also many pro-independence forces who also were not able / who were afraid to vote since the police was trying to stop the referendum. It is clear that that referendum was NOT a reflection of the popular opinion, though.
Because since they are in their belly's mother, are taught with the false idea Spain stole money from them, and they are a country since centuries, the same as UK with Gales and Scotland but the difference that they invented the History to allow the Puyol family to stole money from the Catalan people "legally".
Their arguments all seem to come down to "The people in Catalan voted for Catalan to become independant" but that doesn't matter.
If a random town in France decided it wanted to be independant, it wouldn't just become independant, you can't just decide to leave in and of yourself.
The votes that they assert justify their seperatism were proven illegal before they happened, something illegal cannot be a justification of why that thing is not illegal.
If their goal in this manner is illegal in Spain (which they are currently a part of) then it is ilegal, the only way around this would be to flatly deny the authority of the entire Spanish government (like a convicted criminal simply refusing what they did was illegal).
Catalonia is not a “random town” and to compare it to that is being dishonest. It’s a region with its own culture, its own language, its own history, its own defined borders.
A region should be able to secede from a country. Governments do not own the land and the people they rule over. They are legitimized only by the populace. If at any time a people does not give their legitimacy to the institutions above them, they should not need to keep following them. This is the heart of democracy. People participate on a voluntary basis.
Perhaps you would be convinced by the UN?
UN General Assembly Resolution 1514, article 2 states: “2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”
Right now, Catalonia is seeking self-determination and Spain is fighting it as colonizers often do. Illegality of the referendum is not an argument. If Spain wants to, it can let all attempts at a referendum be illegal in perpetuity, making it impossible for Catalonians to use their right to self-determination.
@@shappy60 I drew on a "random town" which was obviously an exaggeration, to highlight that it is irreverent if just the people of that region deside to be independant, by the argument that the people of the area deside whether it is independant, then i could declair my house independant and that the government could do nothing about it, i deliberately abstracted it from the real situation to focus on the argument itself, hense if a random town in France decided to independant would you really expect France to just give it to them? If that was the system no notable country would exist and governments would loose legal authority, e.g. You just murdered someone, oh wait your independant now and don't have an extradition treaty, oops oh well guess we have to accept that because they have self determination under the UN.
Onto the UN, if the majority of the people of Spain voted against the government of Spain on it's denial of Catalan's independance, then there would be no issue.
That complies with the UN self determination, and i cannot see how a democratic government could deny that, but it's not currently the people of Spain majority voting against the government, just the people of the Catalan region.
The fact a region has defined borders (in terms of legal authorities as a region of Spain) and it's own language and culture, are reasons it may want independance, but not arguments for why it has more of a right to independance than any other place with the same language culture and history as the rest of the country. So the example of a town was misrepresentative in that it abstracted from the specifics of the issue, but not is these aspects, as these aspects are only relavant in so much as they may affect a national vote. And do not provide any more legal legitimacy to their argument, which is what i was addressing.
@@shappy60 "Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples" I don't think Catalonia match that definition
@@granotaapellido839 sure not, since from the point of view of spain catalans does not have rights. No right of expression (a referendum is just that, express the opinion), no right of reunion (we all see what happens when people, peacefully, meets .. and Guardia Civil or Policía Nacional doesnt like the reason: they beat people like if they were figthing zombies), no right of comunications (closing webs for thousands), and it seems that they are not "people" either, just subjects. Only by this way you can say that, while U.N. chart talks about “2. All peoples have the right to self-determination" that does not include them.
When you need to say each day that spain is democracy it means that people doesnt believe it.
@@jordilt3449 Sureeeee
Whilst I'd consider myself fairly knowledgeable when it comes to history, more modern history has sadly escaped me. I'd like to understand about Kosovo. When it comes to what the UN recognises, I dont think theres a more disputed region in Europe.
Feels like the only reason some Catalonians want independence is because the region is rich and don't want to share.
It's basically that and catalan politicians wanting to cover up their money laundering in Andorra
bingo
It is at the core of a not irrelevant % of Catalan independentists, that's for sure.
Something that outside observers fail to account for is that Catalunya is not the only region with an unique culture and identity within Spain. Spain is made up of multiple nationalities, all recognized and given a level of autonomy higher than most other countries in the world with similar regional differences. Many of the arguments put forth by the Catalan independence faction are equally true for late parts of the country, with some having suffered more historically yet receiving less attention.
Catalonia has been mistreated since the "Edictos de Nueva Planta", when the Bourbon suppressed their "fueros". The reason why Catalonia wants independence is because Spain is a train with no tracks, and Catalonia, that has been one of the richest regions of the country, is mad about it, it has been many times when dumb decisions from Madrid have affected catalonian economy; and the catalonian culture (with the basque one) are the only that have had major renaissances. Visca Catalunya independent!
So true. Barcelona was industrialized during the 19th century/early 20th thanks greatly to the favoritism Madrid's central government gave to Catalan nationalists, which had mostly bourgeois support, and also because the colonies Spain still held. It's been proven that Barcelona enriched itself partly thanks to the slave plantations in Cuba or Puerto Rico. Artur Mas was a descendent of a family of slave owners.
Not to say the Catalans don't have legitimate reasons to dislike the vestiges of Francoism in the Spanish political establishment but to claim they're _oppressed_ while regions such as Andalusia or Canary Islands were mostly forgotten in the early industrialization its funnt lolololo
@@danielforeroc Literalmente nadie te impide hablar catalán o celebrar la cultura catalana dejad de llorar sois la región más rica de España y os habéis beneficiado mucho más de lo que pensáis de ser parte de España. No sois los colonizados, sois los colonizadores
🗿
@@danielforeroc every region in Spain (and many other parts of Europe) has suffered mistreatment by the central government in the past. And saying only the Basque and Catalans have enjoyed a cultural Renaissance is just plain wrong (Galicia’s Rexurdimento happened at around the same time as Catalunya’s Renaixença). Catalunya has also enjoyed benefits in the past and present, like industrial investment and grants to monopolize certain trades and industries, to the detriment of other regions of Spain.
I agree, those other regions should also be independent. They can federate afterwards if they want to maintain close ties with the other regions of what used to be Spain.
Or at the very least Spain should be reorganized into an equitable federal state, where the national agenda is decided by all the regions together, instead of imposed by a central government whether it suits the local situation or not.
50% of the popular vote with a 50% of turnout...not a clear support for independence ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
5:13 About that I have to clarify that 80% said yes, but only 37% of the people who was called to vote did, so that means a total of 29,6% of yes in the total.
I believe it would be fair to mention that the Guardia Civil deployed over 10,000 armed police and severely injured around 1,000 citizens on the day of the 2017 referendum - impacting the turnout to the referendum
1.000 is the number of people who passed through any Catalan hospital for any reason during that day. Come on...
False ,only 5 persons were injuried , and 400 police oficcers were in hospital why the actions from separatist milicies
I would be very interested in an analysis on flemish nationalism in Belgium and the current state of belgium in general from your perspective. As a belgian, I often find external views on this topic to be way more hindsightful than the very divided coverage from our national media
i'm from Galicia
A major reason of why pro-independance parties just won a majority is because the far-right Vox, and both PP and Ciudadanos, keep on talking about the "separatists" and make light of the dictatorship (Vox even said in parliament that the current PSOE/Podemos government was the worst in 70 years, implying that Franco's dictatorship was better than a democratically elected center-left with left-wing support government).
In that sort of climate, it makes sense why Catalunya is worried about its future within Spain, and sees independance as a more reliable path forward, as complicated as it would be.
3:20 small correction, it's Canary Islands, not just Gran Canaria. We always get forgotten :( there's even a subreddit all about /r/mapassincanarias european maps without Canary Islands :(
Las Canarias son de Marruecos.
Solo reconocemos a Ignatius.
@@mimovil8730 Marruecos no tiene, bajo un punto de vista historiográfico, ningún argumento a favor para su reclamación, pues nunca fue parte del territorio alauita (este se formó en el siglo XVII, siendo Canarias conquistada finalmente en el XVI) y su población, si bien bereber, no tenía ninguna conexión cultural en términos sociales o religiosos con las poblaciones que compondrían el actual Marruecos al darse un aislamiento que abarca entre mil años o más. Es como si Italia reclamase la Península Ibérica por la antigua conquista romana, o incluso Grecia con el sur peninsular con el dominio bizantino, y aún así ellos si tendrían más derechos que Marruecos siguiendo la pauta de herencia (en este caso romana). Así que, con cariño por parte de un canario, en este asunto no hay base fundable para una reclamación territorial.
@@Macharius89 Está al lado habibi, más claro el agua. Saludos.
@@mimovil8730 pues si esa es la razón no creo que ninguna organización ni tribunal internacional la apoye sinceramente. Y siguiendo tu razonamiento, más razón incluso para no solo ser propietarios de Ceuta y Melilla, sino que deberíamos recuperar el Rif. Pero hasta yo digo que eso es una estupidez. Por hechos históricos y por cuestiones culturales (de quienes habitan actualmente) Canarias pertenece a España. Otra cosa sería si, desde un inicio, Canarias hubiese sido un dominio bereber pleno con conexiones continuas con el continente y, por ende, con los mismos rasgos socioculturales. Pero no es así el caso señor (o señora, no vamos a dar por sentado todo).
Well, we kind of have a conundrum here:
if Spanish constitution states that there can be no dissolving national unity, any referendum for Catalonia's secession will automatically be unconstitutional... which, of course, cannot be satisfying for Catalonia.
Even a Spain-wide referendum would make very little sense because Catalans are not even close to being 51% of Spain's population.
There is no "legal" way for Catalonia to gain indipendence unless the central parliament graciously agree to amend the constitution which is not highly probable, is it.
i'm from catalonia and catalonia will be forever spanish
You are bulgarian
@@Mauri7782 I'm not really from North Macedonia, I was born in Barcelona
I believe a pretty important detail has been missed on this video. The fact that people opposite to Independence in Cataluña didn't vote on either of the referendums as they were both illegal. With that fact it makes sense that there was a large majority in favor of pro-independence supporters.
Most of Spanish people, even in Cataluña, love their country the way it is and don't want to see it broken in pieces. We love Cataluña and are proud of it too.
It's definitely a difficult situation.
I want to send a massive hug to all Catalanes.
The majority of catalans wants Catalunya to become an independent state, as we see clearly in the last elections and in the past years, so don't say most of catalans. And the opinion of the rest Spanish people doesn't count as the catalan opinion because this issue belongs to the future of catalonia
Mr. López is full of shit.
Pro-independence Catalonians are a minority (vocal and annoying) but still a minority (something like 42% to 52% last time I checked, according to the pro-independence Catalan government polls).
Keep crying and telling strangers that we feel spanish. Most of us don't, we are just poorly led
There are some important inaccuracies. ERC opposed the 2006 statute, it was mostly agreed between PSC and CiU.
As for the independence movement, it is not going anywhere and everyone knows it, despite the rethoric of pro independence parties. The extremely low turnout in the last election shows that people don't even care anymore
Of course the low turnout has nothing to do with the covid, does it?
@@jbonells To some extent could be, but the heavy turnout fall was already being predicted by polls for years. It was completely logical, coming from the highest turnout ever with a large proportion of pro-independence people seeing that the process had failed and many unionists not fearing independence anymore.
Please do more of these! One on Rojava or Cyprus would be interesting.
cyrus is turkey
I don't think the Catalan people should try to drag the EU into the dispute. If Spain were to let Catalonia secede, and that's a big if, they would likely veto their EU membership application. (Kinda like the UK threatened to do to Scotland if they voted to secede)
It's worth pointing out that out of the 14 articles reviewed, only 4 were fully suppressed, the rest being subject to minor modifications.
And, although the Sentence's preamble was pretty inflammatory, the highlight of the court's decision was the modification of Art. 218, which would have allowed the catalan parliament to regulate how much the region contributes to the state budget.
The REAL problem is a same papers were presented for the comunnity of Andalucia and they had 0 modifications, fully accepted, Catalan outrage is quite plausible...
@@perrymanso6841 Andalucia never did the same. Not all reforms of an Statute of Autonomy are the same.
The same way a contrat that makes you work for less than minimun wage is illegal but barely over it, isn't.
@@_extrathicc The points shattered to pieces in the Catalan Statute, were copied and approved in the Andalusian one. You can search for It.
@@perrymanso6841That's one of the talking points of the nationalists but it's easily disproven if you take the time to research whether it's true or not.
I guess part of the problem is Spain really really doesn't want to lose Barcelona, being one of the richest cities in the country and a major tourist magnet.
Money is a big part that's for sure.
I am from Barcelona and don't want by any means to secede from Spain. And logically Spain doesn't want to lose us.
Not much tbh, it us mostly a ideological, not economical issue. Only among non-independentist catalonians the economic argument is kinda widespread
@@i.marlafu5715 That's not what the results of the last municipal and regional elections say.
I really liked this video, very interesting, learned quite a bit, and it cleared up some things. Would appreciate a video on Ocitanian independance, if that is not popular then a video on the westen sahara would be interesting (the unrecognised country underneath Moroco). Thank you very much have a good day and keep up the hard work.
It is worth mentioning the omission of the major Unionist protests right before the nuclear option was imposed after E.R. basically declared independence. The support for independence in Catalonia is mixed, it has been since before the Spanish Civil War and it will probably be for decades to come, even if a Pro-Independece party is voted in on the regional level in Catalonia.
Millions are most certainly not fighting to separate from Spain. The title is very misleading. We just had a regional eleccions here in Catalonia (for the Catalan parliament) about 2 weeks ago, and only 27% of the census voted for parties that are in favor of Catalan independence. Most of us Catalans are not pro-independence.
And only 20,5% voted for parties that are explicitly oppose to catalan independence.
@@xhinted690 Sure, but now go to Brussels or the UN and say that Catalans want independence because 27% of the census voted for pro-indepdencence parties.
@@tmr3109 I'm not negating that, but I'm seriously doubting the "Catalonia is mostly not pro-independence".
Nice video. You did miss the juicy topic: what would happen to Catalonia from a EU membership point of view?
there would be no way Spain would allow it
@@frazzyten2447 i don't think it's so black and white. While agreeing with you that spain would never willingly approve it, it is also true that Catalonia is such a big part of spanish economy that not having any trade deal/close relationship with them would be a huge hit. So, I'm not so sure.
@@renatogolia211 Most companies have said they would leave Catalonia for Valencia already. In fact, around 1500 changed their central HQs from Barcelona to Alicante when the independence was suggested last time.
So, i don't see it happening.
@@frazzyten2447 i don't ser why it wouldn't because on a scenario on wich Catalonia becomes independent there would have to be a change in the spanish constitution wich would mean that most of the people of Spain would be fine with It existing as a country and also I think Spain said that they wouldn't veto an indepeni scotland so I think they would accept it
This never going to happen
Do Biafra.. btw. I'm yoruba. But in support of self determination
It would be really interesting to have a video talking about Tibetan independence
I can tell you Tibet chose to join the Yuan dynasty by choice, and thus its independence is moot.
I suggest the channel "Daniel Dumbrill" to you. Tibetan culture is thriving and life quality is higher than ever in China. I doubt you know anything about the serfdom and the cult under the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama himself is a position established by the Chinese Emperor. May I also remind you of the Nepali invasion of Tibet, where Chinese soldiers repelled the attack. The exile government in India is made up of descendants of former slaveholders, who are mad commoners live better lives in China than they do now. They like to distort historical facts. If you don't believe the Chinese, consult Nepali sources. Tibet has been part of China longer than the existence of most countries. For an independence movement, you actually need people onsite wanting that and not some outsiders who have no connection to their ancestral place.
Unfortunately, the comments for any such video would just be swamped with paid shills of the CCP.
@@bonnie115 unfortunately your brainwashing has made you unable to distinguish truth and fiction. So a phantom troll army must be created to fill your cognitive void.
I just knew a ccp member would automatically comment on this, stfu no one cares about your opinion
great video!
Federalize the state. It's the only way. Spain's king should be playing a role by encouraging the integration of Catalan culture more fully into the Spanish identity.
He is, the Spanish royal family are some of the only high-ranking members of the Spanish state who speak fluent Catalan. King Felipe speaks Catalan, as does Princess Leonor, the heir to the throne.
the only way to federalize Spain is through a Republic, but I agree, it would be the best option. However, there ara a lot of communities that wouldn't work by itself economically, like both Castillas or Extremadura.
@@mennallinas Why on earth is a republic the only way to federalize Spain? There are plenty federal monarchies in the world; Belgium, Malaysia, Canada, Australia. Spain could just as well be a federal monarchy
@@LordDim1 because when Franco died, people voted in a referendum if they were for or against the Consitution, which included the fact that Spain would be a parlimentary monarchy always united. Of course, people voted for this change, rather than a possible continuation of the dictatorship. Basically the Borbon dinasty are the symbol of this centralist state, because that's what Juan Carlos wanted since the beggining.
@@mennallinas The Royal House of Belgium was also the symbol of the Belgian unitary state, until Belgium became federal in the 1980s, and they’re now the symbol of Belgian federal unity. Juan Carlos is no longer King, his original wish doesn’t matter. The current constitution can be amended to become federal without touching the monarchy. A federal monarchy would be a much better idea than a federal republic, as the king would represent all of Spain, not any particular state as a president would be more at risk of doing. As I already said, the royal family are already pretty much the only national institution which attempts to incorporate the various regional cultures of Spain; learning Catalan and basque for instance
Would Spain agree to let them join the EU if they separated ? i think not...
they can be like switzerland and join the eea/efta or the single market, which i don't think can be vetoed by eu members? correct me if i'm wrong though, i'm not from europe
@@Armadeus it can be vetoed by the member states.
@@Armadeus yes it can still be blocked I think
@@Armadeusi think all EU decisions should be approved by all members
@@Armadeus you are right, catalonia could join the efta and enjoy most of the benefits of being in the eu and Spain couldn't veto it as they don't even belong to the efta
This was informative but you didnt say WHY. Why do they want independence, what did spain do in response, what would it look like and would an independent Catalonia be a member of the EU like Scotland wants.
Well i dont think so since every country in the union has to accept catalonia uniting the EU and Spain wont be very happy to do so because then the whole country disolves, the vasque country, Valencia, Galicia...
If you were to ask a separatist, they should show you a lot of points that don't add up and amount to propaganda. Really, it's all mostly dumb propaganda.
@@LordJike every kind of nationalism is dumb propaganda, and usually just brings social and economic problems. Catalonia was the best region in spain in terms of economics and innovation now Madrid has passed them and now they are the biggest economy in spain with 2 million people less
@@alfonsoferrerad1143 not only Spain would dislike this, but also other big countries who have their own secession issues, Italy and France above all.
Mai ho entendreu… Catalunya independent!!!!
It would be great to see an episode on the dispute between Flanders and Wallonia in Belgium. Although, bear in mind that a lot of people will be pleased and or angry with these types of things. Even so, it would be great because you simply present the facts and there is little to no Bias in the reporting :)
Spain has jailed politicians in the 21st Century for sedition.
The EU hasn't batted an eye.
But it feels it has the moral high ground to preach to Russia about jailing political prisoners.
And a rapper for 9 months!
If you want a fairly difficult one to deal with I suggest the previous british guiana. 60% of its territory is claimed by Venezuela as the Esequibo, as it formed part of the previous region when under Spanish rule, then as part of Gran Colombia and subsequently Venezuela, They claim that the British stole part of their territory when the British discovered large amounts of gold on Venezuelan territory and altered maps in their favour. It is a 200 year old dispute with no agreement.
Cyprus please. I´m Spanish and I think this video summarised this complex subject quite objectively.
Didn’t talked about the election of 2017, which where after the 1-O. In that election, independentists weren’t the majority. Won more seats due to the electoral law.
@Oscar Grove This time half the population in Catalonia didn't vote due to Covid
@Oscar Grove Ni de coña voy a alegrarme de que VOX haya subido. Simplemente no pueden sacarse conclusiones claras de estas elecciones sobre qué opinan los catalanes sobre quedarse o no.
But the unionist forces were also not the majority in the 2017 election. In fact the pro-independence forces held a simple majority of the popular vote in that election. It is a complicated topic and clearly it would be wrong to say that either support for independence is slim or that the pro-independence hold a large majority.
@Oscar Grove Not true. In 2017 C's + PSC + PP had 43.45% of the popular vote whereas JUNTSxCAT + ERC-CatSí + CUP had 47.5%. The remaining 9.05% was divided in 7.46% CatComú-Podem (a pro-referendum party not explicitly against independence), 0.89% PACMA (an animal welfare party) and the remaining 0.25% was for RECORTES CERO-GRUPO VERDE (0.24%) and PU M+J (0.01%)
@Oscar Grove Comuns are not pro-independence but they are not anti-independence. They are just pro-referendum. That is all that can be said about them, because it is possible as a party to not have an explicit stance on the issue and just support a referendum.
In 1995 Quebec had an independence referendum and the result was very close. If this election had gone the other way then the last 25 years of history would have been very different.
Well, for Canada anyway. I doubt the rest of the world would have been affected much.
If Quebec left, Canadian sports would be so much worse. Canada needs Quebec to beat the States and Russia in hockey! I love you Quebec!
Well this just got a lot more timely.....
These Catalan seperatists are very lucky they did NOT do this in the USA,,,,,, they would have been put in in jail a long time ago.
+Jorge Eslava Are you comparing Spain and USA?🤪