Were the Arab Spring Uprisings a Failure? 10 Years On - TLDR News
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- Опубликовано: 12 ноя 2021
- 10 years ago a number of countries rose up against their leaders in what became known as the Arab Spring. These people hoped for a better, more democratic future for their countries, bringing them more in line with other countries around the world. So looking back from 2021 we want to see if these protests were successful, did they bring about change or did the status quo remain?
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yeah about Tunisia there.... I think what happened in the last couple of months are worth a mention here.
they already did a video abt that i think
I don't think you can really comment on that without first knowing how it will end
Do you mean what the president has done to preserve the independence of decision-making in his country? So far, I have not seen a single Tunisian who does not support the president in what he did.
As a sidenote, here's a small selection of country scores given in the most recent (2020) report. 100 is the most free, 0 is the least.
Canada: 98/100
France: 90/100
United States: 83/100
Brazil: 74/100
India: 67/100
Nigeria: 45/100
Turkey: 32/100
Russia: 20/100
China: 9/100
North Korea: 3/100
@@p00bix
America: gets B- in democracy index
Asian Americans: 🤬🤬🤬
Interestign enough, the Revolutions of 1848 which occured all over Europe were also seen as failures. I belive they all failed and or were ultimately crushed. However, they did have ramifications which would eventually lead to the downfall of the previous ruling monarchies. (If I remember correctly rich liberals, 18th century liberals, gained lots of rights). And for the first time you did not have to be of noble blood to have power or influence in your nation. However, the mass of peasants and poor poeple gained little to nothing. I do wonder how history would see the impacts of Arab revoutions of the last decade and what impacts they might have or have had they we still dont really see.
Although The Netherlands did not had a revolution in 1848, but the king was frightened because of them. He changed from being a conservative to a liberal in literally one night! After that night he gave the leading liberal (Thorbecke) the task of writing a constitution.
Yeah the Dutch constitution was written in 1848, which turned the Netherlands from an absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy which is more or less still the system we have today. Some changes we're made later (such as women's voting rights), but effectively the same democratic system is still in place: parlementary elections with a government chosen and controlled by the parlement. The king is really just a figurehead since that day. So in the Netherlands the 1848 revolution was definitely a success, however it was also not really a revolution, since the king willingly stepped down. Although how willing that was and how much he was blackmailed and threatend is something that a lot of people speculate about.
And that's why I think the premise of the video is flawed. Revolutions aren't measured in success or failure, no revolution ever comes out clean and ready. They're tests for the populace to show that they can still effect power. The Arab spring showed them that they could and that's never gonna go away. The people will remember that they can always make change happen.
@@Niehm This is a really good point. More famously the French Revolution also failed. Napoleon made him self dictator but even after Napoleon the enemies of France forced France to go back to a monarchy and all of Europe was also forced to be monarchies. However, the spark had been lit, and over the coming decades little by little monarchies were weaken and liberal democracies started to form. This process took decades, perhaps close to a century. Things happen slowly and little by little, it is very difficult to get a grasp on what is happening on a year by year basis or if you yourself are experiencing it.
in a way both are similar in that regard.
Skipping the entire Libyan civil war, the execution of gaddafi etc, is perhaps a little too tldr even for tldr
To say that the revolutions in Lybia, Egypt and Syria can not really be seen as successful is a massive understatement. Egypt ended up the same as before, but Lybia and Syria were plunged into total chaos. Many millions have died and the whole countries were completely destroyed.
"'"""""Only"""""" Hundreds of thounsands have died not millions. Unless you're talking about the entire Arab spring not only Syria and Lybia in which case it may be over one million.
Blame Russia
@@mafiosomemer3730 Russia? I don't deny a little of russian involvement in Syria but countries like libya? All western fault
@@mafiosomemer3730 blame Israel and the west you mean
If you live in those countries, you're in a f-ing dystopia
Failed terribly in Syria for sure
Well Assad would have been removed long ago if not for Russian support
@@lukas081559 and isis and the muslim brotherhood would have taken power
@@kinanshmahell8065 after Isis was gone the support continued. Why Muslim brotherhood tho?
@@lukas081559 the muslim brotherhood represents half the militant groups fighting assad
@@kinanshmahell8065 but then the Kurds push them back
Tunisia is the only “success” out of if the bunch. But the rest failed
and maybe Jordan because the king quickly made comprmises
You could say Tunisia sprng is a 'failure' while the rest are a 'success'
Morocco succeeded though
There are parts of Syria that say otherwise.
@@agentminecraft9986 they didn’t change the regime
All these uprisings were in fact due to poor economic conditions and corruption, had little to do with democracy. It happened as you said in the video when there was food shortage etc.
Nobody will start an uprising without poor conditions and other problems.
Why Americans started their revolution? Why the French started theirs? How the Bolsheviks were able to start the revolution?
The reasons were always miseries.
By your logic, the French Revolution was entirely about bread.
@@Seth9809 the truth has been spoken
@@Seth9809 that's actually not far from the truth. The subsequent ruler was not a democracy at all and conquered most of Europe.
Democracy is not a short term goal, it's a long term achievement of it's people....the path to democracy for Europe, America, India etc was long and bloody too (with the exception of the latter)..
Some clarifications about Syria: Hafiz came to power not in 1963 but in 1970, in 1963 he was just a member of the Military Committee of the Ba'ath Party that led the coup. He was Commander of the Air Force, then Minister of Defence and in 1970 he conducted his personal coup establishing a regime that was inherited by his son after his death in 2000.
Some how you failed to mention Yemen and Sudan.
Also from the Arabs perspective :the reason Arab spring failed was the network of influece by the Gulf states and the European community backing the coups to counter Islamists weight in the Arab street.
Many of the revolutions of the Arab spring were western conspiracies anyway
If the European nations didn't intervene in Libya and Egypt, the protesters would have failed at the first step
@@burningphoneix true that
He already said he's gonna mention these three countries
Great video!. However, some inaccuracies on Libya. Since Feb 2021 there has been a unified government (although tentative) due to a new UN agreement the LPDF. This was aimed to build on the LPA you mentioned and fix the deadlock. Currently there are national elections slated to take place in December 2021 with the aim of renewing democratic legitimacy in the government. *Note: these elections are also tentative.
it's a bunch of tribes held together by islam with a ramshackle "government" papering over and pretending to resolve the various clan feuds, no?
Not at all lol. I honestly dont know how to address your comment but I will assume it is a genuine question. The country is definitely not being held together by Islam, if that was the case then from Morocco to Indonesia would be one nation under a “ramshackle” government lol. The issues in Libya are political (with yes tribal elements, in the political sense). The main issues are how the historical regions of Libya (Tripolitania, Cyrenaica and Fezzan) can divide the political (and economic) power in the country (this is an over-simplification). Again it is not that clear cut. However, as of now the vast majority of the population wants elections to take place in December, a few political elites are content with the status quo but cant overtly stare this and so thats why i said the elections are tentative. The best way I can describe Libya is Game of Thrones, Tripoli is Kings Landing and all the main houses of Libya want to have influence over Kings Landing. For now they have nominally chosen a govt (Bran Stark) but just like Bran the current govt is very crippled and so we have to wait and see how things turn out. I hope this somewhat makes sense lol
Not at all lol. I honestly dont know how to address your comment but I will assume it is a genuine question. The country is definitely not being held together by Islam, if that was the case then from Morocco to Indonesia would be one nation under a “ramshackle” government lol. The issues in Libya are political (with yes tribal elements, in the political sense). The main issues are how the historical regions of Libya (Tripolitania, Cyrenaica and Fezzan) can divide the political (and economic) power in the country (this is an over-simplification). Again it is not that clear cut. However, as of now the vast majority of the population wants elections to take place in December, a few political elites are content with the status quo but cant overtly stare this and so thats why i said the elections are tentative. The best way I can describe Libya is Game of Thrones, Tripoli is Kings Landing and all the main houses of Libya want to have influence over Kings Landing. For now the families (Libyas political factions) have nominally chosen a govt (Bran Stark) but just like Bran the current govt is very crippled and so we have to wait and see how things turn out. I hope this somewhat makes sense lol
"...there has been a unified government..." in papers, yes they do but in reality neither it looks like a government nor it acts like a government. They barely have control even in Libyan capital. Not to mention slavery, human trafficking, hardcore jihadism, starvation, widespread hunger, crime, unemployment and literally thousands of military, tribal, criminal, jihadist warlords... And various international power interests Russia, Turkey and so on. Gaddafi was a brutal tyrant but today they don't even have a tyrant they have tyrants X1000.
@@truerealist2160 Thanks for answering, my question was sincere, but also informed and not purely ignorant. Your analogy of the feuding clans to game of thrones is lol but more or less confirms or at least doesn't refute my own tentative intuitive non expert view of the mess which is Libya.
In fact, pan-Islamic governance is just what you described. Enormous local autonomy, with a loose transcendant unity. I guess read up on the Ottoman empire for its most advanced example or any of the various caliphates.
Westerners love to put other countries into a (neo)liberal framework of capitalism and individual rights. The results in patriarchal tribal religious societies are evident in the last 20 years of (failed) U.S. foreign policy.
How does your description of Libya contradict or contrary mine?
0:51 actually, the sudden collapse of the US Dollar was a major factor. Middle East countries partly outsource monetary policy to the US Fed and ECB by using currency baskets. When the USD fell sharply as a result of the US financial crisis of 2008, the Middle East countries suddenly had partial devaluation of their currency while their costs were largely EUR based. This led to food inflation.
it also led to a few of these northern african countries asking for payment in gold, rather then dollars (payment for oil and other natural resourses). the US could obiously not pay in gold or afford to not buy the oil anymore, so they had to overthrow the government
@@rikvanderbruggen988 What choice did the US have? Clearly the government had to be overthrown.
As my history teacher put it: 'revolution implies change, this changed nothing"
I think some changed for the worse
Actually, a revolution means you end up in the same orientation you started in.
@@maxthexpfarmer3957 explain?
@@condotiero860 spinning
@@condotiero860 A revolution is when you turn all the way around and end up in the same direction you started in. So if you were facing North, then you turned right until you faced East, then you continued turning right until you faced South, then you continued turning right until you faced West, then you continued turning right until you faced North again, that is a revolution, but you are ending up facing in the same direction that you started.
Could you do this topic further and deeper please, with a tactical and strategic perspective:
What they did
What worked
What failed
Why it worked
Why it failed
As a broad overview this video wins. But as a tactical or strategic review it leaves gaping holes along the lines of "what went wrong" "what went right" "what to do" "what not to do". Possibly as a series of four country studies?
it's missing so many details
Yeah they didn't even mentioned yemen and sudan both of them are faliures, Yemen is still in a civil war and in sudan it failed in to a military dictatorship
Good questions, but TLDR doesn't even pretend to attempt deep geopolitical analysis.
They are called TLDR News for a reason.
@@arcan762 TLDR doesn’t mean skip out on important topics? For example no mention of Yemen at all even though according to the UN many civilians are starving.
Hmm, apparently yemen is not there
Sad me
yeah he skipped a few :/
Yemen problem is too fucked up it needs it's own vid
Protests sprung once again in 2019 actually.
In sudan, Iraq, leabnon and Algeria.
Those in Algeria and Sudan were partially successful but still there needs more change.
foreign intervention in libya made it argueable worse
@@user-op8fg3ny3j It was going to collapse anyway. Foreign intervention involved providing some very limited air support to overwhelming rebel forces, but even without it Ghaddafi never stood a chance. His forces were too small, and his enemy's too large. Ghaddafi's economy tanked well before the civil war, as mentioned in the video and the guy was a massivley corrupt autocrat. He held BILLIONS of dollars in assets, which were frozen by the UN, and which were gained solely by robbin the Libyan people.
Libya was going to be a serious power house in the world, something the US didn't like obviously.
@@user-op8fg3ny3j Lol "superpower". People need to stop randomly throwing around the word "superpower" like it means something. Being a "superpower", requires more than just $$$$ & military influence regionally.
@@user-op8fg3ny3j lmao he was doomed either way
Libya was never going to be a "superpower" and it's funny seeing leftists support fossil fuel based companies lmao
@@user-op8fg3ny3j Superpower of Africa really isn’t saying much. Having money backed by gold isn’t gonna catapult you into regional dominance. Libya was failing and all the west did was speed up that process.
It should also be worth mentioning that things became way worse for religious minorities, especially christians.
In fact, in Egypt this was one of the reasons the army interviened as the muslim brotherhood was actively persecuting non muslims (and muslims too later on).
Sounds pretty American to me😎
@@justanotheremptychannel2472 what
@@riccardomartinelli4203 persecuting religious minority is very 🇺🇸
@@justanotheremptychannel2472 true, that's another intended consequence of the Arab springs objectively speaking
@@riccardomartinelli4203 how could you not intend it if you train thousands of "moderate fundamentalists" in Saudi Arabia to fight Assad?
"The Libyan Political Agrrement"
I swear nobody bothers checking your videos before you upload
Honestly, the flags on all the dictators are messed up, they say Hafez came to power in 1963, that Omar Suleman became the President of Egypt??? pretty fucked up tbh.
5:26, Egyptian and Syrian flags are switched + 6:51 "presidential council" box bugs and shows up early + 7:26 Egypt has no Sinai
These are small mistakes and I love TLDR News, I understand that they have a lot of work and are strained, however I don't want this to affect the quality of their vids, and mistakes have been more frequent :(
I noticed a typo at 7:05 it says "Libyan Political Agrrement"
@grass Israel agreed to leave it in 1979 with last soldier departing in 1982. I’m not sure the events of this video corresponds with those time periods.
Tunisia stopped being democratic some months ago. The arab spring has been a failure everywhere you look
This is a list of events you have forgotten that completely changes the perspective of this video:
Kais Saied coup in Tunisia (It can't be considered a success story anymore)
The 2014 election in Libya (Libya Down wasn't just a revolutionary group, but also had claims of legitimacy through elections)
The formation of the Government of National Unity under Dbeibah in Libya (Events are turning out to be positive although there are many challenges yet to overcome)
You can make the argument that Kais Saied actually is helping the country because under the inhada the country was protesting against them.
kais saied taking all the power was actually pretty popular with tunisians, the parliament actually failed to make ny big decisions due to them not being able to get along
@@shayanhasan2254 nah bro, the president’s popularity is decreasing here day by day due to his lack of understanding of huge economic issues and also the way he’s managing the country on his own. He’s not listening to any political or civil organization and his statements are dividing the society and deepening the problems.
@@Abdo9t9 this is unfortunate, I thought Tunisia was going to make it to the safe shore, since it's the only country where the Arab spring had a positive impact
@@sabrina1380m don’t worry, Tunisians will eventually find the way to get back on track and make the major reforms needed. Our most valuable asset is that we all stand against violence and will always be optimistic and hope for a better future
That guy at 9:00 with his RPG and flip-flops is a serious pro.
It's always fun hearing somebody with the most British accent talking about these kinda things. xd
Can we not agree that although these countries were far from perfect they were still much better Pre Arab Spring compared with Post Arab Spring especially in regards to Libya and Syria
I mean, they ended up in civil wars. So they weren’t much better. You don’t end up in civil war when you are doing fine as a country. Just imagine random country having government that is incompetent makes big debts and leaves country in financial crisis. The next government inherits country in big debts and financial crisis. Of course, the standard of living for people will be worse during time when they live in financial crisis than before everything collapsed.
But you can’t exactly say things like “man, being bankrupt s*cks, I wish I can go back when I was raking debts to unsustainable level”. Same thing with this countries. How exactly can you lead successful country, when previous management left it in civil war and society is completely divided in warring parts.
Yes, it's sad that in every country the arab spring obtained the opposite they pretended
@@hal6702 Yeah, instead of them you had military men doing basically the same thing, making normal guys suffer
Not like we can go back in time to Modernize Ancient Sumeria
@@losdirectosdetroopa973 True, but at least there was a lower risk of being ripped into million pieces by some religious weirdo who wants to meet his virgins.
Think you should put a bit more emphasis on economy in comparison to democracy which is arguably a bigger reason for protest and the objective people want
It's useful to remember where the term "Arab Spring" comes from. It obviously reflects the term "The Springtime of Nations," a once common description of the rebellions of 1848. Although those rebellions seemed to go nowhere at the time look at Europe today. If democracy has as rough a road in the Arab lands as it did in Europe, we are looking at a long brutal process. It's way too soon to speak of failure.
Well ISIS still has not passed like german nazi
@@tiggerchen3 Nazis weren't a direct result of the 1848 German revolution, the Nazis wouldn't take power until 1933
@@user-gb7cl8np3p yeah but europe as is now, went to nazis phase and decolonization decades later. If we use europe as example. The middle east still have ISIS wrecking havocs
Didn’t the revolutions of 1848 include attempts to for the Kingdoms of Germany and Italy? Weird take to say it was democratic.
@@Tecmaster96 Good point, but also the german revolutionaries supported a constitutional monarchy with a liberal constitution.
The issue is that when elections did happen after the downfall, the groups which were the most organized yet least democratic, usually won (usually the Islamists).
Correct. In large part because both international big capital - often represented by the US govt. - and local authoritarian regimes have an interest in keeping democratic and left movements crushed.
No, how did so called Islamists gain power... the only one is ISIS and even that one is not Islamist, it does call itself so but they are not. In Egypt the Zionist dictator took power useing the military and in Libya it is trabes and mercenaries, in Syria the dictator is winning. There is no Islamist. The Islamist where trying to do something good in Egypt but then they got sniped by a new military dictator.
Democracy is not just elections, but societal values lol
100% utter failure. Not worth the bloodshed. Not even close. May Allah have mercy on those who suffered.
You forgot to mention there were massive protests in Egypt in june 2013 before the coup in july 2013. That prevented a civil war.
civil war? by whom? June 29th, everyone complaining about lack of fuel and electricity shrotage. Then July 4th, bam egypt is saved by the Glorious Leader in shining armour, General Abdel-Fattah El-sisi.
@@hatoosy Okay, explain to me what would've happened if both groups kept protesting indefinitely with the Muslim Brotherhood rejecting the idea of an early presidential election.
@@myymschannel A civil war, the other guy is probably high.
It's a good summary video, though it kinda seems like it's from ~2018 or so. It doesn't mention recent events in Libya, the complicated situation in Syria, and talks about the Syrian war death toll as half a million. Updates for 2021 would be nice. Also worth mentioning that while Libya became somewhat freer, the standard of living there dropped significantly compared to the dictatorship, more than in Egypt or Tunisia. Only Syria and Lebanon had it worse.
Reminds me of the quote by Littlefinger from GoT "Chaos is a ladder". After the fall and in the chaos, the most machiavellian people rise to the top, and we're back to square one. A good argument for incrementalism, rather than revolution.
A Tunisian vendor burned himself after his permit to work was denied I think, Bouazizi never knew that he could spark a Revolution in Tunisia that could expand to the rest of the Arab World. Oddest thing is that Tunisia has been the only country to maintain some resemblance or order among all the others. Only Assad is in power still , just barely running what is left of Syria. Internal issues were used by foreign powers to push their agendas in the region too.
A syrian here
It failed miserably
Egypt is without Sini peninsula throughout
This dude completely ignored everything about Libya . No mention of the civil war or even nato's involvement .
Egypt literally saved the world from impending destruction and violence and terrorism, if The Muslim brotherhood would have stayed in power.
The whole world shall thanks Egypt for that Huge favour ... Unfortunately, some people in Europe don't understand that.
Sisi isn't better than Morsi, he's even worse
@@someboi4535 of course thats not true ... Morsy stole the country and it was like city of terrorists, but now our economy is so much better and peace and new megaprojects are everywhere
@@MichelNabil lol sisi clearly brainwashed you
Morsi was a terrorist but Sisi is even a bigger terrorist, he is literally an ally to Saudi Arabia and a puppet of USA, both of which are gigantic terrorist (and USA is the greatest devil)
And what leave are you talking about? Peace with the Zionists and Israelis? That's humiliation, not peace
9:21
To be fair, all sides in Syria (not just 2) have been accused of war crimes. And the us helps prop up a few factions of the rebels.
To be fair the Christian militia fights besides Assad
so what the us supported the rebels and Kurds. 1 they helped fight Isis. 2 they didn't gas there own civilians unlike Assad who is backed by russia
@@troublej1035 you do know America funded militias related to isis do their doing things worse than gasing their own people
@@glizygxbler3131 your an actual !diot if you think America funded Isis. America funded the Kurds and Syrian rebels who fought against Assad and isis
@@troublej1035 you really think isis would have gotten that powerful if they didn’t have a powerful backer also you do know America has funded terror groups before for example taliban contras Iran
Majority of Egyptians supported that "coup"
emmmhmmmm, ofc......
majority of egyptians also support that nice 1 USD: 15 EGP exhcnage rate am I right?
@@hatoosy كفاية حنيكة
@@hatoosy Yes, most of Egyptians support it since it saved the economy.
@@mohamedhosamanwar8330 "saved the economy" 😂😂😂 another brainwashed clown
@@mohamedhosamanwar8330 which economy??
Your economy is collapsing
As an arab yes it was a failure
Because it didn't bring sharia law right ?
You have agreement misspelled from 7:00 onward on the newspaper “agrrement”
4:33 Got the egypt and sriya and the leader wrong
The person who made the graphic must have switched the flags on accident. They look kinda similar
yeah they also said that parliament in tobruk was recognized by the UN. it was the opposite
WTF it’s been 10 years!? Time flys!
It's often ignored, but while Turkey is not an Arabian country, Gezi Park protests were a consequence of Arab Spring, which also were unsuccessful.
Great video!
6:17 that's a major inaccuracy, The Tripoli government is the internationally recognized one not the Tibruk. Thats where Haftar took over.
Guys there are many other problems in the video too, Past 10 videos have been slowly getting worse credibly, I really like the channel but there needs to be way more effort into getting your information right. You are informing people not just churning out videos.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here myself, since the recent Libyan history is very confusing, but I think it's actually you who's making the mistake here. They are talking about the situation in 2014, when the GNC was pushed out of Tripoli by islamists and what you're talking about is the GNA, which was formed later.
Egypt is kinda doing ok
What is "ok" exactly??? Education? Economy? Human rights?
@@M2N17 All of those criterias are actually improving
@@randomh9191 Dont make me laugh mate. All of these are getting worse and worse everyday. If you say to anyone that the economy is "improving " he will laugh at you instantly
@@M2N17 The World Bank doesn't think it's funny tho...
@@M2N17 HuMaN RiGhTs lol who cares i don't need another war that will drive jihadits all over the world to Egypt
It kinda reminds me of the Revolutions of 1848. When nothing changed, but also everything changed.
I just feel sorry for the countries and their people that suffered after this tough year, I hope and pray that they will find happiness in the land they grew up in and which some fight(ed) for. And all the lost lives with those wars. May they Rest In Peace and go to Paradise In Sha Allah 🤍
Blessings be upon all those beloved people
Actually tunisa's economy was doing great under benali it had a gdp per capita of 4300 dollars in 2011 that meant tunisia was in the upper middle class ramking among countries , tunisia was doing much better than similar economies like egypt and morocco and even better than rich in oil and gaz algeria at that time of the booming of the oil sector that made algeria rich , after the revolution today tunisa gdp per capita is 3000 dollars a complete collapse and the country is on brink of running out of foreign reserve , the reality is after ousting ben ali tunisa lost its economic attractivnes to morocco which is much more stable thankes to its monarchy , the reality is the arab spring was always gonna fail because democracy doesnt and cant work in the middle east and north africa , democracy works only when you have a rich country with high level of education and strong liberal institutions and will never work in emerging countries where tribalism is strong and low level of education , you need a strong and competant authocrat to reform society and move the country to the right direction democracy will only bring islamists to power and they will ruin everything like what happened to iran after ousting the shah
There is no tribalism in North Africa lol. And democracy in Iran worked fine, until the west overthrew them for oil.
In the Egyptian presidency, there were two candidates, El-sisi and his campaign manager, because Elsisi ridiculously forced the disappearance of other candidates, so something had to be done.
In 2014,
Sisi 97
Invalid Votes 2
"Opposition" 1
Sham elections everyone knows that, but TLDR makes it seem eSIsi was elected throguh same process morsi was eleced
At this rate, I'm just wondering when their going declare him as Pharaoh.
Democracy is not exportable, importable, imposable, or something that can be rushed or created in an instant
Glad to see this video! A few notes: Should have used the monochrome green flag for Gaddafi instead of the current flag. Also, Hafez al-Assad took power in 1970, it was the Ba'ath Party that seized power in 1963. At 4:35 the flags for Egypt and Syria are mixed up with the photos of the leaders. The internationally-recognized gov was in Tripoli, and the self-declared one headed by Haftar was in Tobruk. Also, it seems like the most recent developments for Tunisia were completely skipped over with Kais Saied taking power in July 2021 and suspending parliament. I'll give this a "like" anyway. :)
Many key details missed in this video. One being sisi was the leader of the military coup
This seems a bit incomplete having only analysed the democracy index. What about the economy and standard of living? Democracy not necessarily means better lives, right?
I would add that the freedom of press index is not the only meter of democracy
Fuck democracy it's hypocritical
Idiots, no one has demanded democracy. This is just a slogan for them to reach power without a coup
Why is Sinai chopped off the map of Egypt in your graphics? That took some effort to do.
Long answer: this video
Short answer: yes
I say this as an western, an American by that. Just because we practice democracy doesn't mean other nations need to, or want to. By no means am I advocating for violence, or even dictatorship, but we'd be wise to stop applying our norms on other nations.
Democracy is forbidden anyway
Democracies are not always necessarily better. A "democratic" Saudi Arabia, for example, could turn into a nightmare. And in Libya, at least Gaddafi represented a more stable system then the result after NATO intervention in the 2011 civil war. Power vacuums can be very dangerous, so this is a real case of "be careful what you wish for".
Doesn't matter if democracy is better, the most important things are extracting oil from Libya and enriching the politicians and military industries in NATO and the US
How exactly would a democratic Saudi Arabia "turn into a nightmare?" Also, stability for who? Certainly not for the oppressed.
@@davidlangum8085 1) Do you really want a Saudi Arabia where the Muslim Brotherhood are winning elections? 2) Are you seriously making the claim that today's Libya is MORE stable for ANYONE (let alone for your definition of "the oppressed") than it was a decade ago? Your view of the region seems either skewed, or uninformed. However if your answer to both questions is still 'Yes", then we'll have to agree to disagree, and either way I'll bid you to have a better day :(
@@ravenlord4 I want a Saudi Arabia where the people, not tyrants or the elites, have a say in their country. And today's Libya, while not perfect, is still better than under Gaddafi, where the people lived in fear and were oppressed.
@@davidlangum8085 1) That worked out so well in Iran. 2) If you seriously think that no one in Libya lives in fear and oppression today, then I would refer you to the US State Department travel advisory guide. The first line for Libya reads "Do not travel to Libya due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, kidnapping, and armed conflict." The rest of the page is an enlightening and fascinating read as well. But hey, you be you if those conditions are your cup of tea. Cheers.
You missed a lot by skipping details over foreign intervention in Libya and Syria .
There are now many different armed groups backed by different nations (more than just Russia) , and many air strikes were conducted by many different nations .
it’s weird it could have been a success but i have a funny story my mom and her friend were in bahrain and the driver accidentally drived next to protests at the roundabout i forget the name but i remember her telling me she even has a video
I am a non-Muslim living in a country which is far removed from the Arab world.
I just wanted to write in to say that I am disgusted by how Muslims are portrayed in western media.
It may surprise many to find that not all Muslims are religious extremists and that they have wars and conflicts over things other than religion.
I've had comments taken down and gotten into trouble over things I've said before, so I won't say too much more.
Only that for my own reasons, I will never convert to Islam - for me, personally, I feel that the religion has nothing to offer me - but I do have one thing in common with every single Muslim on earth, that I am a human being.
As a human being, I have biological needs like food, water, sleep, etc; as a human being, I am forced to be a part of a society, because if we all just went our own way and did our own thing governments couldn't collect tax. If my president (I am South African) says or does something, not everyone will automatically assume that everyone in my country agrees... Leaders and politicians make decusions for their own reasons (usually involving money) and the people agree or don't agree. In some countries those who don't agree do so openly, and in some they fear the backlash which will result.
Please, next time you see bad news about something happening to Muslim people, don't post ignorant and biased comments about how all Muslims are supposed to be religious fanatic suicide bombers and terrorists and how Muslims can't live in peace. You can be an insufferable asshole if you belong to any religion or if you're an athiest.
Hold individuals accountable for their actions, not their (professed) beliefs.
thanks for reading this, have a good day.
I live in Egypt and have lived here since 2008 and I'll say while there was hope in egypt after the revolution, there was also uncertainty and lack of organisation. The government had successfully repressed all opposition for so long that any alternative power structure not going to be ready for at least 5 years. The only one that was instantly organised was the Muslim brotherhood.
The rise of attacks against Christians began climbing and also the rate of crime went up to the point where people demanded an election. The only two options that had any kind of funding and organisations were the Muslim BH and the old government. The BH won in a mildly secular platform and proceeded to put the country in massive debt.
Two years later a lot of people protest (not as much as 2011) and the millitary arrives to get rid of the bad elected government.
The next election was a complete sham, Sisi got 91% of the vote and complete control of egypt.
The feeling in the middle East is sad and melancholic because people want change but it will never happen in their lifetime.
The amount of simplification is staggering and often gives a misleading impression.
Definitely
When ever there's a question, I have, TLDR is bound to have a video on it 😁
As an Egyptian life is starting to be better as many projects are in progress like the new monorail and corruption is down according to my knowledge . Also democracy would never work in Egypt for a long time since a lot of people are not educated enough and would ruin the democratic process
People like voting for what they want, but not what they need.
"DeMoCrAcY wOuLd NeVeR wOrK iN EgYpT"
@@Maho011275 let’s bring back the Ptolemaic dynasty.
@@Maho011275 in the current way it wouldn’t work as we recently got the ability to rule ourselves
@@LordCoeCoe yes especially here in Egypt
If this is not a failure then I don’t know what to explain
Absolutely
As an Egyptian, while it is true that I believe Sisi is not democratic but honestly I don't care. You understated how much Morsi was a disaster, Sisi at least the economy and is stable, I have food, water and shelter and see actual reforms in infrastructure. So I can trade democracy for that
Also he knows how to conduct diplomacy unlike his predecessors. a neighbor to the east of suez :)
you sad sad caged animal.
In some places the Arab Spring was a failure. Some other places, like Tunisia, it was a mixed result.
It's very hard to form a democracy when there is no culture of democracy in a nation prior.
Who cares about democracy anyway we don't want it
Could we further look into reasons on why they failed?
Absolutely, categorically, NO!!!!!
The answer is it depends. If you were oppressed before but now find yourself not so then I guess it was a sucess. But its hard to look at Libya and see this as a sucess. Its hard to see much change in Egypt. Its hard to see that people are safer overall. Lets remember that Syria was part of the Arab Spring and from that debacle we got a stronger ISIS, a point for Jihadists to congregate. IMO Western powers stirred the pot and supported legitimate groups but as per Iraq these groups often didnt have the power needed to guide the uprisings where they needed them to go. So Egypt got the Muslim Brotherhood, Libya got civil war, Syria got civil war....there is an ongoing rufugee crisis, millions are dead, populations displaced....but apart from that it went great.....
In every country on earth there are people opposing the government. If a foreign country interferes and transfer money and/or weapons to the minority, its likely to create a forever war.
it doesnt depend... every single country that was part of the arab spring failed... every single one.
To say Arab spring a failure is just wrong, the Revolutions of 1848 Europe was failure, but it eventually lead to the birth of Germany and 19th century nationalism as we know it, the 1905 Russian revolution gave rise to 1917 revolution etc etc, just because in the short run the reform movements failed doesn't mean it had no impact, the Spring had a lot of both positive and negative impacts, the negative impacts will tail off in the long run. I have faith in all people including Arabs. They will overcome and have their shot at their own version of democracy.
Best comment
@@jacondo2731 thank you
The relationship between the 1848 Revolutions and XIX nationalism is backwards. In the sense that it was nationalism in its various expressions, be it a desire for autonomy or even independence in Hungary, to a desire to unify Italy and Germany, that sparked (among other things, obviously) the 'Springtime of the Peoples'.
Regarding Germany specifically the 1848 Revolutions were a total and complete failure. The liberal revolutionaries' dreamt of peacefully creating, through speeches and congresses, a constitutional, if not republican, Germany. What history gave us instead was a Monarchical Germany unified through iron and blood. Sure, Germany still got unified in the end, but I doubt that the Bismarckian Reich was what the 1848eithers wanted.
That "still got unified" also deserves some comment, because Germany as thought of in 1848 never even came to be. They wanted a Germany that included *all* germans, particularly one that included Austria. So even now 100 years later, even with Germany a liberal republic, their dream remains unrealized.
As far as the Arab Spring goes, wouldn't it be fait to call it an impactful failure?
@@pascalausensi9592 so? Would there be Germany or Austria without the 1848 revolution? I really doubt it, the Austrian elites refused to join the German Reich although people wanted it, 1848 crystallized the notion of German people which we know now today, which was a long time in the making, which is why you had anthem like Deutschland uber alles.
True the Deutsches kaiserreich of Bismarck wasn't the liberal dream but you cannot deny the impact of 1848 on Bismarck, he went from Prussian nationalist to a person who is ok with German national idea (although people say no but fair enough) without 1848 revolution it would be been impossible. You could also say 1848 revolution had impact on collapse of ottoman empire which brought nationalist ideas into the mainstream eventually the ruling monarchies of Europe embraced it. Mind you prior to 1848 the Austrian chancellor was clamping down on nationalism every where. He was overthrown in that revolution. 1848 was a very impactful failure as it influence even our present.
But to say it's a failure is unfair, the days of dictators in middle East are numbered they are living on borrowed time
@@prakyathkumar8618 Would there be a Germany without the 1848 revolution? I do think so. The notion of Germany was a long time in the making, I don't think that Metternich (the Austrian chancellor) and ilk surviving for a couple more years would have altered much in that regards. But that's only speculation.
1848 might have had an impact on Bismarck but the very fact that he, a conservative prussian nationalist, was who unified Germany tells of the failure of the revolution.
As far as its effect on Europe in general the revolutions failed so hard they reinvigorated their opposition, namely (neo-)absolutist conservatism. For example, I don't know about the effects it might have had on the Ottoman Empire, but the Austrian Empire was definitely strengthened by 1848 and probably only lasted for as long as it did thanks to it. France's another example, there the only accomplishment of the revolution was bringing the Napoleonic Empire back to life. 1848 was a failure because it didn't accomplish its goals, it was an impactful failure because what it did do was delaying the realization of all its drivers wanted for at least 70 years.
I'm from Tunisia and life was actually better under Ben Ali than now!
4:16 : "a state of emergency from a war that happened over 40 years prior is still ongoing"
Well if that doesn't sum up every current "state of emergency", I don't know what does
Stability trumps democracy. Arab springs turned out to be Arab winters.
A life not worth living is no life at all.
Yeah, you tend to get that from people living in first world countries.
In my opinion, objective freedom is measured by how many Good choices you have. The person who only gets to eat one type of good apple is more free than the one forced to choose between two rotten ones. People in first world countries at worst need to choose between mediocre apples. They don't realize that in some countries, choosing the bad apple means war, extreme poverty, and having no future for your children.
Okay this is your first video with a lot of misinformation.
Ten minutes for four countries is not even close to enough. You need a much more in-depth analysis to evaluate this topic.
yes
Guys when will you ever fix your map of Egypt? Every time Egypt comes up in one of your videos it’s missing the entire Sinai peninsula..
Edit: I’m actually curious to know if it is a genuine mistake or is it somehow left out deliberately? Because Sinai is not in anyway a disputed region since 1979 and the last Israeli soldier withdrew from Taba in 1988, since then Sinai is fully under undisputed Egyptian rule.
I like all the TLDR content but careless repeated mistakes like this actually get on my nerves because it’s not just another inaccurate map, it’s a piece of Egyptian land with great historical significance and cultural influence to all Egyptians.
No I am pretty sure it is because it is a simplified map.
@@mostfire8764 doing a simplified version of something doesn’t justify it being repulsively inaccurate.
@@omarmesbah6620 you would you be happy if they just draw a triangle or what , there simplified maps that doesn't draw sinia before Suzi canal it was just Egypt connected to palsitane and after the canal it shows just the canal between palsitane and Egypt, it just no one cares about sinia and I believe that there British one doesn't have Northern Ireland.
@@mostfire8764 Northern Ireland is not geographically connected to the rest of Great Britain by land so it might be understandable if it was taken out “for simplicity” that’s not the case with Sinai.
who could have stolen it i wonder...
alternatively, as TLDR News is a British source, they might just be salty about the Suez crisis
Always good to see the super western point of view from TLDR. Not a mention of Obama and Libya's destruction, how the IS is fighting Syria's gov with US weapons, etc... is it too much to ask?
Well the West’s point of view is by far the most important on the world stage. Take away the west and we would be back in the dark ages.
@@caydcrow5161 lmao, take away the west and would be twice as developed since Soviets wouldn't have to spend money on guns
Why would he mention that though? This video was about the revolutions of the Arab spring not about how the west interfered. Again the west wasn’t the point of the vid
@@connorh2215 it's kind of important because western intervention impacted these countries during the Arab spring.
Not sure what your damage is?
Isis had us weapons because the us left the iraq army who just ran and left the weapons behind. if you for one second believe the us supported Isis your either a bit or need serious help
Yes
most of it failed, but it shows it can get better.
Unfortunately yes; the Arab Spring failed.
Only the first wave of arab spring failed
@@user-rz9vb8vj5u What's the second wave?
@@jhonklan3794 still not arrive
@@user-rz9vb8vj5u dude i think those who were really willing to fight are already dead
@@niggacockball7995 thing here is getting worse which will fuel the second arab spring
it's just a matter of time
In some countries, yes. In some, no.
Just because a country is more democratic does not necessarily mean it’s more successful. Democracy does not equal success
This is an incomplete analysis, at best... consistent failure to discuss foreign interventions, in Libya and Syria especially. Please see the coverage from Blast ruclips.net/video/RM2CcRLzxVE/видео.html (partial content on French and Quatari interventions in Libya). There may be other videos. As for Syria, there is a lot coverage on how US interventions (control food producing areas) is preventing rebuilding.
Also, is important to notice that the Assad government, as far from “good” as it can be, was only *accused* of many things, in the same manner the US *accused* Iraq of having weapons of mass destruction… the American interventions to secure oil is probably the most important reason behind why the Arab spring mostly failed
This channel isn't really known for its high quality research, mainly it is to present info that ofc is subjected to being incomplete, wrong or biased.
@@thuyenlee8995 I really like when they talk about what’s going on in Europe or the US, but when they talk about the third world it’s really biased towards western/imperialist views… it’s really sad for us how many people will see that and presume it to be true…
@@ryankahler2034 agreed with everything you said. Their brexit coverage was exceptional but as soon as they start looking at other countries (I.e Global south) it’s through a western lens with none of the nuance they show for Europe/UK. Not surprising for uk
/London based journalists that don’t travel or have critical thinking Skills, outside their country origins. It’s expected these days I supposed 🤷🏾♂️.
yeah he mentioned nothing about air strikes or such
Interesting content, but I’m confused why the Egypt pin doesn’t own the Sinai peninsula
My thought exactly.
The Libyan civil war had effected things greatly in Russia.
President Medvedev was convinced by Nato to allow a No fly zone over Libya(something deeply opposed by Putin and the Hardliners), Nato used the No Fly Zone to bomb Libyan Goverment forces(And actually bombing the goverment palace killings some of Kadaffis family).
This completly crumbled the pro western faction in the russian goverment and Medvedev was blamed for the whole disaster.
After this Putin decided to return to the presidency unseating Medvedev.
Since then the pro Western faction in goverment that was tolerated and somewhat promoted by Putin in the first few years of his presidency was effectivly sidelined as a political force(mostly because of events Libya,Syria and Ukraine).
The west's attitude and actions have mostly ruined opinions in Russia about any possiblitly for Good relations no matter how much appeasement is needed.
And turned most people in the goverment and even some former democratic cruseders into hardliners.
The events in Libya spacificly also weakened pro western factions world wide(Mostly in Iran and North Korea) but no Nation was as effected as Russia by the events.
I mean, if you think Russia is dirty better not look at the US💩💩💩
@@justanotheremptychannel2472 He said that the West actions are reason behind losing faith in democracy and West authority in developing countries such as Russia and as russian I agree with him. US never stopped supporting anti-Russian things(Kosovo, Georgia, Ukraine, etc) even though Cold war ended, so Russia which first wanted to be part of west now is strongly against it
@@Admin-gm3lc I fully support you, you might not be the goodies, but the true shit show sits in the never-stopping colonizers, you and China are the lesser evil that keeps US and France at bay
Trully good countries like Switzerland and Iceland don't really have anything they can do about the state of the world
Good vid
After all this, the conclusion is that these nations are not fit for a Western Style of democracy for sure. They functioned far better under their own style of authoritarian governments (Libya is a grand example of this). All this happened because America didn't just want them as allies, but as satellite states/energy providers.
It wasn’t just America, it was France and the UK too
@jimmy Democracies need trust. If you can't trust that the courts will give you a fair outcome when you dispute an election, or that the new government won't oppress you, why would you listen to the results? You think there's a real chance you could be imprisoned for political reasons, why not rally an army to overthrow the government?
Look at America recently. Trump disputed the results, tried to fight it in court, and lost. Now he appears to be trying to rally up the energy for another run at the presidency. That's a successful democracy with a strong legal system. Most of the world though, and especially the Islamic world, is less a nation-state than an empire where one ethnic group rules over all others, and tribal conflicts are more important than some vague national idea that no one believes in. Want these places to be stable? Abandon the idea of democracy. Democracy in these places either results in inefficient governments (India) or are susceptible to autocrats.
Not really, A) Authoritarianism is a western ideology as well and B) They failed due to the actual systems of power being kept in place, most of the protests only got rid of the president, but still the corrupt governments. Also, none of the protests addressed the terrible treatments of ethnic and religious minorities in their countries. Getting rid of a President isn't going to fix the problems of a government, you have fix the government system itself to do so.
@jimmy no lol we're all islamists ☝🏿🏴😉
Muammar Gaddafi was the brotherly leader and guide not President
Was that his official title?
what about places like Lebanon?
they won't succeed without preserving their religion
why is that
@@kendsplaining being divided into states
having different ideologies instead of unity on one religion
it's what separates and births hostilities towards each other
with no hope of going back
@@fasoooli2751 kinda like how india maintains 4000 ethnic groups
@k. lol if your talking about countries that's it region isn't been torn by coup and wars funded by the world super powers then it doesn't count.
@@shivanshna7618 Do you think India is a successful country, lol, democracy is forbidden in Islam is this difficult for you to understand, you damned Westerner?
The Tunisian democracy is failing with election after election as nothing is stable. It's quite possible that it might revert back to autocracy if someone has the guts to seize power.
Interesting that the video failed to mention Anwar Sadat, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, by name, instead referring to him a "the previous President."
I blame the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916 for the failure of the Arab Spring. If thst didn't happen, the Saudis wouldn't have been so widely successful, they wouldn't have used oil money to train generations to be as fanatical about religion as they did, there wouldn't be as much terroeism in the middle east as there is, and come the Arab Spring, the middle East would have democratized. Also, I'm pretty sure the Isreal-Palestine conflict would have ended long ago as well.
As with most major conflicts, we have the British to blame.
People of the Mediterrenian region of Africa are NOT Arab.
They use to speak their own dialect of Greco-Latin before the Islamic conquests.
These people descend from Ionian and Dorian Greek colonies first founded around 770BC (2,770 years ago).
These Ancient Greek colonies include Cyrenica, Barca, Tripoli, Taucheri, Naucratis, Misra, Bengazi, Appollonia and also the Phoenician colony of Carthage.
Genetically, they cluster with peoples of Southern Spain, Sardinia, Sicily, Italy, Malta and Greece as well as Palestine.
Of course they do have Native African ancestry.
Palestine was called Judea
They have been part of the Arab world and Arab culture for a thousand years so at this stage that matters more then genetics
the arabic world refers to places that speak arab/arabic dialects and are heavily influenced by arab culture
I seriously don't know why anyone outside of these countries would care if they are Arab or not
If someone speaks Arabic and wants to be identified as an Arab that's up to them, it's none of your business
no we are arabs
I mean, if there's one thing these countries desperately need most fundamentally - its new borders, not decided by European colonial powers. As well as the right to not get CIA'd if they nationalise their own natural resources.
Libya clearly got CIA'd in 2011, it was not a revolution.
Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt have most of their borders from pre-colonial times.
Not really. Since they are all Arab countries and bordering each other, borders cannot be a factor. If you were talking about black Africa, I would't disagree.