I also love that Feyd is progressively impressed with everything Paul does, like he is pleasantly surprised that there is someone he thinks can be so badass in so many ways.
It's actualy Lady Jessica's handiwork. She was supposed to give birth to a daughter but instead for the duke she choose a boy. That's why Paul is abomination, he was supposed to be a "she"
The problem is that Villeneuve dropped the ball with that line. "Abomination" has a very specific meaning in the Dune universe, and it sure as hell is not what appears in this scene. Don't get me wrong, the film is still great, but this moment rubbed me a bit in the wrong.
@@XanderVJ while I won't claim to be a veteran Dune fan, I have brushed up a bit on the bene gesserit's background and the intended nature of the Kwisatz haderach. My comment might not have implied it, but I have a fair idea of what Mohiam meant.
At the beginning of this scene Pauls mother, and the other reverend mother seem acknowledge eachother. Paul was the making of the Bene Gesserit, his mother wanted to protect him by making him the Lisan Al Gahib, but now that she was the Reverend mother of the Fremen it seemed like her ancestors also influenced her actions greatly, (After all their entire goal was the make the Lisan Al Gahib, and if they could make him then they would've fulfilled their purpose and Ultimate goal "For the better of humanity") along with the turning of Paul into the Lisan Al Gahib. Add ontop of it, a Bene Gesserit would rather be the mother of the Lisan Al Gahib, along with being on the side of him rather than to be against him. That would be the only Bene Gesserit that had any possible influence over him. However the other Reverend mother seems to come to regret the making of this all knowing entity realising that with his blood line, and his inheritance from his father, and mother, along with his mothers training he became something that she had no ability to control or influence, and any attempt to be able to control him and his actions could be forseen and immediately shut down by him, which for the Bene Gesserit that is a big threat to them, someone that can see their ploys, plots, and actions before they even begin to happen, and being able to see something in a full picture rather than a half.
Nice logic, except for a few things. First The tittle reverend mother is a bene gesserit title. There is no distinction between the two faction. Essentialy the Lisan Al Gahib is a story told by Bene Gesserit so that when their kwizach haderach come he will have popular support. This is known to the Bene Gesserit only. They are one and the same. Paul on the other hand is the making of Jessica, that's her thing and a deviation from the "plan" of the Sisterhood. Tho one can argue it was inevitable. What the Bene Gesserit failled too understand in both book and movies is that the Kwizach haderach is beyond them. It is no something they can control. When Paul reach that, the futur open itself to him and he see what they cannot, notably the Golden Path. Now here is where it get funny, the emperor, weak and entitled speak of the rule of the hearth, which is horseshit but sentiment will prevent Paul from going further up the step. Spoiler..... What all faction, navigator, Sisterhood, great houses and even the technocracy, fail to understand is that the betterment of humanity can mean anything, and above all it doesn't mean humanity will cruise happily into the beyond, the golden path is survival and that's not pretty. Which the movie Dune keep hinting at, there is a narrow path.
@@kokolasticot304 I was also frustrated that in the movie Chani was FULLY AWARE of the prophecy being spread by the Bene Gesserit. She was so far removed from the influence of the Fremen that she was able to see all of that, but she was so close to the Fremen that she believed in them anyway, despite seeing the ease at which they could be radicalized? She just comes across as unintentionally stupid.
“SILENCE……abomination” yeah when you’re used to being the most powerful, and someone comes along and takes you off your throne all you can do is try to call them something to make them less or make them seem as crazy. Since she can’t control Paul or rival his power then she tries to call him an abomination to explain the reason why he’s so powerful and she can’t compare to him. The move of a coward
Haha... of course the opposite was true. The emperor was a weak man who ultimately would have been toppled by either the Harkonnens or Atreides. Therefore, he joined the more craven house to take down the house that was a threat. If Leto was weak, then there would have been no reason to take him out, removing that check to the Harkonnens.
Good reasoning, but consider this: Leto _was_ weak, because he could not see the Emperor's weakness and envy and the resulting team-up with the Harkonnens, nor could he foresee the treason of his family doctor. He knew about military power but not politics. Similarly, Paul is also weak in a way, because he could not prevent the jihad he foresaw, nor could he stop Stilgar and others from turning into fanatic fools, and he could not resist becoming a tool of his most powerful followers, (in the film) above al his own mother.
@@Daneelro Leto was MORALLY the strongest character of the entire series, and that's supposed to be the tragedy of it. Finally the universe has the man it needs, but the plotting and politicking and every other human machination was fighting against it, and got Paul's/Leto II's Jihad instead.
@@ulyx9804 The core point of Dune (as stated by Frank Herbert) is that people should not follow charismatic leaders. Leto's moral strength doesn't help.
said to chani "she maybe his wife, but she will never know his love. you as his concubine will know his love." ad libbed since i dont remember it by heart
But this only happens in the books and Lady Jessica says it to her, because in the books Chani has accepted Paul as their Lisan-al-Gaib, and is on good terms with Lady Jessica. There's a whole explanation by Dennis as to why in his movies he made Chani deny the prophecy.
Why didn't Paul just tell the other great houses that the Emperor was responsible for the extermination of House Atreides? They all would've turned against him and gladly make Paul the new Emperor. And there wouldn't be the need for a holy war.
Bit of a spoiler but Paul always intended to start the holy war. As he turns into Lisan al'Gaib, he also starts to believe his "fate" as a leader to the Fremen.
It’s because he defeated the Sardukar. With them gone the great houses have nothing to fear. Paul needed to take control of the spice. Hence why he made Arrakis the new throne world and ruled from it. Nobody can do anything without the guild and the guild will do anything for whoever is in control of it.
They did, but as the old saying goes: better the devil you know than the devil you don’t know.. Atreides single handedly took down the Sardaukar and house Harroken.. for all they know, they are next
She looks pissed off, actually. And before that, when Paul asks the Emperor for explanations, you can see Gurney and Jessica turning to see the answer. I think she's still there, at least more than Paul
The fact that neither Jessica nor Paul overly react to the emperor's insult "your father was a weak man" could mean they deep down agree with him? Regardless whether statement is true or not, Paul definitely is not like his father (anymore).
Properly keeping their anger under control, because they know Leto is a great man. Who would've been the new Emperor due to his popularity raising among with the other Great Houses. Since Baron Vladimir Harkonnen even stated in Part One the Emperor is a jealous man.
Saying “Stand or choose your champion” was an appropriate response. He didn’t let this cretin get under his skin, and let him know that talking was done. Paul was now going to take everything from him.
1:21 the face of Chani says everything. She realized that even though he loves her, the Paul she knew and came to love was gone for good, this new Paul is someone absolutely different, because he chose power over love
This scene REALLY bothers me, because she never even talks with him about the things she is upset about. She is just content to suffer in silence, fulfilling a Hollywood communications gap trope that has been prevalent for so long.
@@ulyx9804 Paul already knew it. Since the moment she slaps him in the face. That's why before the emperor and the rest of hostages went to that place he told Chani he will love until he stops breathing, to prove he is the same person pretending to be someone else, preparing her for what he was about to do. Which is why here Chani is upset, because that makes her feel he said it because he'd already made up his mind on taking the princess' hand in marriage
@@nicolasdiez7688 Paul knew, but does SHE know he knows? It's again a communication problem, especially from Chani's side. I am saying that her issues with him extend long before this scene, all the way back to his decision to take the water of life.
@@ulyx9804 because she'd hate he became someone else only for something like that prophecy of Lisan- Al -Gaib. In part 2 we learn she doesn't believe in the prophecy and is against it because it enslaves Fremen, and they are supposed to be free and obey to know one but the planet itself by being one with the desert. She even said to Paul "you'll never lose me. As long as you don't lose yourself"
@@nicolasdiez7688 But SHE WAS RIGHT THERE WITH HIM when the Sietch was attacked, and they realized that their 200-man-band was no longer capable of fighting the Harkonnen. She KNOWS he must escalate if the Fremen are to survive. She's literally going to have to agree with him, or at the very least reconcile with his actions, by the end of the next movie, because she is the mother of his twins. It just makes no sense that she "believes in the Fremen" but just as easily dismisses their beliefs and temperament.
The Benni’s were never meant to have sons and teach them their ways. Jessica had Paul against their rules so she refers to Paul as an abomination as he was never meant to be.
More so than that - he, a man, drank the Water of Life and lived, and is an abomination to the B.G. because of it and the powers it conferred. That wasn't supposed to happen in the B.G.'s plans.
@@houserhouse That's... just not true. "Abomination" has a very specific meaning in the Dune universe, and it doesn't have anything to do with Paul, nor with the Kwisatz Haderach program, for that matter. "Abomination" is when someone who has managed to get access to their genetic memories (what happened to Jessica and Paul after drinking the Water of Life) gets their personality essentially erased by the personality of one of their ancestors, which is one of the Bene Gesserit biggest risks when they become a Reverent Mother, so they only do it after their own personality has already been form and it's strong enough to not let themselves being overtaken. Pre-borns like Alya (Paul's younger sister), are a different story. They got their genetic memory unlocked before they were even born, before they had any chance to develop a personality of their own. So the odds of that happening become an almost certainty, hence why the Bene Gesserit feared and hated Alya so intensely in the books. It looks like Villeneuve made Moiham say it to Paul it because... it sounded cool? I have no idea, but regardless, he dropped the ball hard with that line. It just doesn't make any goddamn sense with the establish lore, hence why so many people are doing mental gymnastics to create a head canon.
All this could have been avoided by simply marrying Paul to Irulan in the first place. Sure the spicing guild would have had issues, but at least he could have been controlled in the Imperial Court.
Unless you want to be ruled by the strongest and best warrior, you need to have it. And don't forget, the strongest and best warrior is rarely the best ruler.
So dissapointing. Paul hould make the Atreides's ring Red Hot. And ask the Emperor to kiss it. *Marking his lips permanently* . So he cant deny his surrender. He will remember his sin toward Atreides, everytime he looks at a mirror. And every breath he take for that moment, its a mercy from the house of Atreides
Jessica looked ready to tear his head off for calling Leto weak….
The emperor is right though. Paul and Jessica roflstomped everyone to this point not because of their heart, but because of cold calculated moves
She genuinely loved Leto
I love Feyd's look at 0:49 , when he realizes that Paul is not bluffing
I also love that Feyd is progressively impressed with everything Paul does, like he is pleasantly surprised that there is someone he thinks can be so badass in so many ways.
@@ulyx9804 and Paul is a cute twink 😉
The problem, Reverend mother, is that this "abomination" is your handiwork.
It's actualy Lady Jessica's handiwork. She was supposed to give birth to a daughter but instead for the duke she choose a boy. That's why Paul is abomination, he was supposed to be a "she"
The true "abomination" is actually Paul's sister
The problem is that Villeneuve dropped the ball with that line.
"Abomination" has a very specific meaning in the Dune universe, and it sure as hell is not what appears in this scene.
Don't get me wrong, the film is still great, but this moment rubbed me a bit in the wrong.
@@XanderVJ while I won't claim to be a veteran Dune fan, I have brushed up a bit on the bene gesserit's background and the intended nature of the Kwisatz haderach. My comment might not have implied it, but I have a fair idea of what Mohiam meant.
It was supposed to be a girl but girls just aren't strong enough to be the top witch
0:53
Jessica was like: "I taught him that."
fr
A proud mother
I like that it cuts to Gurney and then Jessica after Paul demands the Emperor answer for Leto's death. The last remnants of House Atreides.
At the beginning of this scene Pauls mother, and the other reverend mother seem acknowledge eachother. Paul was the making of the Bene Gesserit, his mother wanted to protect him by making him the Lisan Al Gahib, but now that she was the Reverend mother of the Fremen it seemed like her ancestors also influenced her actions greatly, (After all their entire goal was the make the Lisan Al Gahib, and if they could make him then they would've fulfilled their purpose and Ultimate goal "For the better of humanity") along with the turning of Paul into the Lisan Al Gahib.
Add ontop of it, a Bene Gesserit would rather be the mother of the Lisan Al Gahib, along with being on the side of him rather than to be against him. That would be the only Bene Gesserit that had any possible influence over him.
However the other Reverend mother seems to come to regret the making of this all knowing entity realising that with his blood line, and his inheritance from his father, and mother, along with his mothers training he became something that she had no ability to control or influence, and any attempt to be able to control him and his actions could be forseen and immediately shut down by him, which for the Bene Gesserit that is a big threat to them, someone that can see their ploys, plots, and actions before they even begin to happen, and being able to see something in a full picture rather than a half.
Nice logic, except for a few things. First The tittle reverend mother is a bene gesserit title. There is no distinction between the two faction. Essentialy the Lisan Al Gahib is a story told by Bene Gesserit so that when their kwizach haderach come he will have popular support. This is known to the Bene Gesserit only. They are one and the same. Paul on the other hand is the making of Jessica, that's her thing and a deviation from the "plan" of the Sisterhood. Tho one can argue it was inevitable. What the Bene Gesserit failled too understand in both book and movies is that the Kwizach haderach is beyond them. It is no something they can control. When Paul reach that, the futur open itself to him and he see what they cannot, notably the Golden Path.
Now here is where it get funny, the emperor, weak and entitled speak of the rule of the hearth, which is horseshit but sentiment will prevent Paul from going further up the step. Spoiler..... What all faction, navigator, Sisterhood, great houses and even the technocracy, fail to understand is that the betterment of humanity can mean anything, and above all it doesn't mean humanity will cruise happily into the beyond, the golden path is survival and that's not pretty. Which the movie Dune keep hinting at, there is a narrow path.
@@kokolasticot304 I was also frustrated that in the movie Chani was FULLY AWARE of the prophecy being spread by the Bene Gesserit. She was so far removed from the influence of the Fremen that she was able to see all of that, but she was so close to the Fremen that she believed in them anyway, despite seeing the ease at which they could be radicalized? She just comes across as unintentionally stupid.
“SILENCE……abomination” yeah when you’re used to being the most powerful, and someone comes along and takes you off your throne all you can do is try to call them something to make them less or make them seem as crazy. Since she can’t control Paul or rival his power then she tries to call him an abomination to explain the reason why he’s so powerful and she can’t compare to him. The move of a coward
Paul should’ve replied: If my father was weak then what does that make you, the man who feared him & went to such lengths to kill him?
The way Jessica looked at her when she walked in. Like " you thought we were playing?"
Haha... of course the opposite was true. The emperor was a weak man who ultimately would have been toppled by either the Harkonnens or Atreides. Therefore, he joined the more craven house to take down the house that was a threat. If Leto was weak, then there would have been no reason to take him out, removing that check to the Harkonnens.
Good reasoning, but consider this: Leto _was_ weak, because he could not see the Emperor's weakness and envy and the resulting team-up with the Harkonnens, nor could he foresee the treason of his family doctor. He knew about military power but not politics.
Similarly, Paul is also weak in a way, because he could not prevent the jihad he foresaw, nor could he stop Stilgar and others from turning into fanatic fools, and he could not resist becoming a tool of his most powerful followers, (in the film) above al his own mother.
@@Daneelro Leto was MORALLY the strongest character of the entire series, and that's supposed to be the tragedy of it. Finally the universe has the man it needs, but the plotting and politicking and every other human machination was fighting against it, and got Paul's/Leto II's Jihad instead.
@@ulyx9804 The core point of Dune (as stated by Frank Herbert) is that people should not follow charismatic leaders. Leto's moral strength doesn't help.
All of them...from the veterans to the rookies, such an excellent work !!!!
25000 years or more in the future and new York influenced the empire's accent..
The spice must flow
"YOu'rE oUt of yOU're MiNd!"
So let’s not act out a great story because of an accent okay guy
americans complaining about accent for some reason
He grew up in New Yo- I mean, Kansas.
It's kinda funny tho considering that NY is where tim hails from
SILENCE
I love how the camera switches to Gurny when me mentions Leto. Shows that his death was not forgotten and will be avenged.
He was already avenged by killing Rabba with his own hands
@@nicolasdiez7688huh? Rabba didn’t kill Leto.
@@HavanaOutpost no but he lead the attack
Way go Paul. And I feel bad for Chani
said to chani "she maybe his wife, but she will never know his love. you as his concubine will know his love." ad libbed since i dont remember it by heart
But this only happens in the books and Lady Jessica says it to her, because in the books Chani has accepted Paul as their Lisan-al-Gaib, and is on good terms with Lady Jessica. There's a whole explanation by Dennis as to why in his movies he made Chani deny the prophecy.
I like how even Feyd looked horrified that Paul managed to frighten the reverend mother 0:48
You have to answer for my father - Paul Lisan Al Gaib
the glances between jessica and mohaim >>>
Why didn't Paul just tell the other great houses that the Emperor was responsible for the extermination of House Atreides? They all would've turned against him and gladly make Paul the new Emperor. And there wouldn't be the need for a holy war.
Bit of a spoiler but Paul always intended to start the holy war. As he turns into Lisan al'Gaib, he also starts to believe his "fate" as a leader to the Fremen.
It’s because he defeated the Sardukar. With them gone the great houses have nothing to fear. Paul needed to take control of the spice. Hence why he made Arrakis the new throne world and ruled from it. Nobody can do anything without the guild and the guild will do anything for whoever is in control of it.
Emperor still ensured some kind of stability, they could trial him and Corrinno or something too. Paul was about to wreck the status quo
They did, but as the old saying goes: better the devil you know than the devil you don’t know..
Atreides single handedly took down the Sardaukar and house Harroken.. for all they know, they are next
2:03 Lady Jessica is totally gone, nothing remains of her. It’s sad she had no reaction when the emperor said her husband was a weak man.
She looks pissed off, actually. And before that, when Paul asks the Emperor for explanations, you can see Gurney and Jessica turning to see the answer.
I think she's still there, at least more than Paul
She does have a reaction it's juat very subtle. But her expression changes. She is not totally gone.
@@HankookTires-fe1xk it's how it should be, she's trained to not show that much emotion like all bene gesserit.
He wasn’t her husband, they weren’t married
I feel the opposite, the change of the view of your face and the Gurney its the meaning that is a debt for all the Atreides, even for her
Silence !!
That was so cringe.
@@spanishflea634 Abomination.
@@spanishflea634 SILENCE!
If you know the books, the emperor was proven right. I don't want to give any spoilers, but so to speak, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
I read and i agree with that statement.
If the emperor thought Leto was weak and the emperor killed him becuase he feared house Atreties (Leto) popularity, what does that make the emperor? 🤡
Weak lol. The emperor was projecting when he said that
not Chani Whitaker, Daughter of Forest Whitaker at 1:19
The fact that neither Jessica nor Paul overly react to the emperor's insult "your father was a weak man" could mean they deep down agree with him? Regardless whether statement is true or not, Paul definitely is not like his father (anymore).
Properly keeping their anger under control, because they know Leto is a great man. Who would've been the new Emperor due to his popularity raising among with the other Great Houses. Since Baron Vladimir Harkonnen even stated in Part One the Emperor is a jealous man.
Lol Paul sees the future. He already knows he won. Why would he get angry?
No, they were confident that he was not and that the emperor was lying. Ie the president telling someone that the sky is green doesn't make it true
The emperor was projecting when he said Leto was “weak”. He himself was weak due to lack of male heir & chained by the Bene Gesserit & the Harkonnens.
Saying “Stand or choose your champion” was an appropriate response.
He didn’t let this cretin get under his skin, and let him know that talking was done. Paul was now going to take everything from him.
1:21 the face of Chani says everything. She realized that even though he loves her, the Paul she knew and came to love was gone for good, this new Paul is someone absolutely different, because he chose power over love
This scene REALLY bothers me, because she never even talks with him about the things she is upset about. She is just content to suffer in silence, fulfilling a Hollywood communications gap trope that has been prevalent for so long.
@@ulyx9804 Paul already knew it. Since the moment she slaps him in the face. That's why before the emperor and the rest of hostages went to that place he told Chani he will love until he stops breathing, to prove he is the same person pretending to be someone else, preparing her for what he was about to do. Which is why here Chani is upset, because that makes her feel he said it because he'd already made up his mind on taking the princess' hand in marriage
@@nicolasdiez7688 Paul knew, but does SHE know he knows? It's again a communication problem, especially from Chani's side. I am saying that her issues with him extend long before this scene, all the way back to his decision to take the water of life.
@@ulyx9804 because she'd hate he became someone else only for something like that prophecy of Lisan- Al -Gaib. In part 2 we learn she doesn't believe in the prophecy and is against it because it enslaves Fremen, and they are supposed to be free and obey to know one but the planet itself by being one with the desert. She even said to Paul "you'll never lose me. As long as you don't lose yourself"
@@nicolasdiez7688 But SHE WAS RIGHT THERE WITH HIM when the Sietch was attacked, and they realized that their 200-man-band was no longer capable of fighting the Harkonnen. She KNOWS he must escalate if the Fremen are to survive. She's literally going to have to agree with him, or at the very least reconcile with his actions, by the end of the next movie, because she is the mother of his twins.
It just makes no sense that she "believes in the Fremen" but just as easily dismisses their beliefs and temperament.
Abomanation!
Abom*i*nation (Harkonnen grammar nazi here)
Mohiam: Consider what you're about to do paul atreides
Paul: SKIBIDI!
Why did the Reverend Mother utter "Abomination" after being shushed? Seems like a weird time to have her address the baby in the belly of Paul's mom
The Benni’s were never meant to have sons and teach them their ways. Jessica had Paul against their rules so she refers to Paul as an abomination as he was never meant to be.
@@jamesgomez2361 AHHH!!! Thank you so much! This question has plagued me since I first watched
More so than that - he, a man, drank the Water of Life and lived, and is an abomination to the B.G. because of it and the powers it conferred. That wasn't supposed to happen in the B.G.'s plans.
@@houserhouse That's... just not true. "Abomination" has a very specific meaning in the Dune universe, and it doesn't have anything to do with Paul, nor with the Kwisatz Haderach program, for that matter.
"Abomination" is when someone who has managed to get access to their genetic memories (what happened to Jessica and Paul after drinking the Water of Life) gets their personality essentially erased by the personality of one of their ancestors, which is one of the Bene Gesserit biggest risks when they become a Reverent Mother, so they only do it after their own personality has already been form and it's strong enough to not let themselves being overtaken.
Pre-borns like Alya (Paul's younger sister), are a different story. They got their genetic memory unlocked before they were even born, before they had any chance to develop a personality of their own. So the odds of that happening become an almost certainty, hence why the Bene Gesserit feared and hated Alya so intensely in the books.
It looks like Villeneuve made Moiham say it to Paul it because... it sounded cool?
I have no idea, but regardless, he dropped the ball hard with that line. It just doesn't make any goddamn sense with the establish lore, hence why so many people are doing mental gymnastics to create a head canon.
@@houserhouseXander is totally right.
All this could have been avoided by simply marrying Paul to Irulan in the first place.
Sure the spicing guild would have had issues, but at least he could have been controlled in the Imperial Court.
Would’ve been a pretty boring story then
@@gbeach85 The Emperor could have given them Dune as a wedding present and gone from there. Its just a bad choice for dumb reasons causing chaos.
walken completely miscast
More cowbell!
Tobin Bell would be a better choice
@@skybrick1036Charles Dance would have been an even better choice.
Same with timothee
Same with Irulan, she’s terrible.
end not impressive
Walken was a poor choice to play the emperor. Weak performance.
This scene got butchered so badly
That choose your Champion stuff as bullshit
Unless you want to be ruled by the strongest and best warrior, you need to have it.
And don't forget, the strongest and best warrior is rarely the best ruler.
So dissapointing.
Paul hould make the Atreides's ring Red Hot.
And ask the Emperor to kiss it.
*Marking his lips permanently* .
So he cant deny his surrender.
He will remember his sin toward Atreides, everytime he looks at a mirror.
And every breath he take for that moment, its a mercy from the house of Atreides
Zendaya's acting in this movie annoys me.
They really didn't do a great job with Chani.
She comes off as a snotty kid, in the books she was more ruthless and understanding of what had to happen
This will be was his interesting as a root canal. This movie was awful save your money
😂 nice try
This will be was his movie was more interesting than your comment
Am i d only one who find zendaya is ugly without make up???
Yep, can’t blame my man Paul Atreides for choosing Florence Pugh over Zendaya
She is stunning in any situation. Everyone has their preferences, but pretty sure you're in the minority on that take.
Even with it I never saw her appeal.
@@user-tn8rl1lc8l pugh aint so hot either
Florence puegh is way hotter than overrated zendaya
Zendaya angry eye twitch