At 64 playing off 8.5 and don't play in comps I will just buy dozens of old balls for pennies , as hopefully they will want to offload them , and continue to enjoy my golf. As you said it's all about having fun and enjoyment.
So the issue is that players hit it too long for todays courses! Dont change the ball, dont lengthen the course, simply do what some private clubs do when pro competitions play there..... make the par 5s Par 4s. Even further, some par 4s can revert to Par3s. Now there's no tech changes needed, balls, shaft lengths, driver heads, etc. Outside of historical score/performance comparisons, its now a proper challenge for current tech and current skills, current physique and NO COST involved!(except scorecard printing)😅. Am i missing something??
This isn’t an answer to a problem with private clubs. How many amateurs play from the tips at any given club? This is specifically for a few PGA venues, and their inclusion into major tournament rotation. Any other explanation is a LIE.
It's a direction to take..... a suggestion to move many PGA Tournament holes to lower pars, not to change the average player course (private or public) pars.
SAS golf had a good take on this and recommended a change in the minimum loft used by pros. The top guys are using 7 degree, but if you changed it to 10.5 degrees then it will be more effective.
def agree with that. a lot of people think more loft will help you fly the ball longer but the numbers say the complete opposite lol. i mean shit, you have guys like dechambeau hitting clubs that are so delofted it’s unreal lol
Although I could possibly play the same clubs as a pro in reality I would play worse. But a ball is something more players of greater variation of ability can play. So changing this affects us all even though the changes are aimed at Tour Pros. Just set the Tour courses up for the championships , make the greens super fast , grow the rough , leave the equipment alone .
The average everyday golfer really doesn't care. Most don't play in tournaments or club championship. Most don't play by strict rules. They are out for fun. So they are going to play what ever ball they have. The usga, The r&a. Pga are so far out of touch with reality and the "average" golfer. .
Let's be honest. If those of us affected by the 2030 rollout can't get past having to make up the anticipated 1-5 yards, we probably shouldn't be playing this great game. There probably will be more rule changes we won't like. I frankly can't get too excited about 1-5 yards . And, I don't want to pay higher green fees for the courses I play if they were forced to make changes to comply with the rules.
@@gryjl1most members of clubs do play in club tournaments it’s a requirement to get a handicap. So they will all be affected. The last thing I want to do is have a debate over golf ball in my weekly stapleford.
Great point about golfers who are working hard to gain a bit of speed and a few extra yards. They will take away those gains in an instant. You may still out drive your friends, but the courses aren't getting shorter. I'm doing speed work non stop to try to get one club less into greens and give me a chance to score better. It will cost us strokes, not just distance, and getting better at golf is really not easy. Ten yards off of a 250 yard drive will cost you at least a stroke a round.
Hi James and Gary. I am a 63 year old lady golfer. I don’t hit the golf ball too long. I am not a short hitter but I am often out driven by other senior lady golfers. I need all the distance I can get to reach a green in regulation. I love the summer golf play, when the course is firm and fast for the roll out of the golf ball. If I have to purchase a golf ball of 20 years ago my drive might average 100 yards and on a hole of 500 yard it will take me 5 shots to get on the green 2 putts 7. I will soon give up the game I’ve loved and played since I was 12 or so.
Given the information from both the USPGA and R&A is the average male golfer is expected to lose about 5/8 yards with their driver and they expect ladies to be less so I doubt it will be a problem and I would expect that in the 6 years until this is introduced both equipment and ball technologies will have advanced anyway.
I agree with you about the roll-back of the golfball James. The plan promises little but has the potential to harm the bread-and-butter weekend players' games. Furthermore, the overall impact on the professional game will be less than the impact of LIV on the PGA Tour.
Ive said this before, so I will say it again. Course Supers need to make the course HARDER, NOT LONGER. Tighten the fairways, grow the rough, deepen some bunkers, and speed up the greens by either cutting and rolling more or get rid of regular bermuda. At HYLAND GOLF COURSE, in SOUTHERN PINES, NC in the states, we have TIF-EAGLE HYBRID BERMUDA, which allows closer cutting and uses less water in the hottest weather. We also use a clockcut method everyday, by never cutting the greens in the same direction two days in a row. We also verticut as well as aerate every other year. This allows the ball to hold the green but still remain firm, preventing damaging ballmarks. The courses on the tour have made plenty of money yet, AUGUSTA is the only course in America that makes regular changes. Its time to spend that money that theyve been getting rich on instead of punishing the average golfer. Weve been punished enough with the rising costs we pay to play this game and try to GET GOOD AT GOLF.
I've said the same thing for years... Make the courses tougher... narrow the fairways ( dont let them have 20 to 30 yards of rollout) , make the rough longer and more of a penalty to be in, you could have the rough go in 3 stages, 1st cut is 2inches, 2nd cut is 4 inches, and 3rd cut is uncut and each cut has to be atleast 5 yards wide on each side. And speeding up the greens wont affect a Tour pro's score as much as people think....
With six years still to go there’s a lot of time for R&D and I can easily see the ball specification evolving to meet the new test criteria but with the % drop off being lower/negligible at slower speeds such that the average handicap golfer is barely affected. There are plenty smart people in the industry and they know this will be a winner from a sales and marketing perspective.
Im Confused on how it works... How do you control shaft length for shorter or taller players? Did shorter height players just gain yards over the taller player?
Rolling the boll back i suppose would entail developement costs for testing and manufactoring, just a thought , if all the companies refused to roll back the boll unless the PGA pays for all added costs, what could they do start there own manufactoring company, don`t think so
I’m in my 60’s now and use ProV1’s and used to play the Top Flite Z Balata ball in the dryer weather. It felt soft and definitely spins more than a ProV1 does. This was great back in the day, as it gave you more control with your irons and wedges. However, it definitely didn’t go as far. In the winter, I used to use the Molitor golf ball. Believe you me, if you topped one on a cold day, it felt like you’d broke all of your fingers!! that ball was so hard and had very low spin, which gave you much more distance (up to 20yds) off the tee. 😂
Bigger, longer, stronger - is not always better. My feel is tighten up courses, more dog legs, more fairway sand, tougher rough and put a premium on keeping ball in play and finesse. Maybe more links style courses. Seems like 6,200 to 6,700 yards is plenty long and put emphasis on accuracy and course strategy. The way the game is going with equipment cost and green fees, it is getting out of reach of many potential people. By adjusting courses, equipment, balls et al will take care of itself. FWIW.
i agree with that 100% but a lot of these venues they play at need to have that extra space for spectators. there’s probably TONS of suitable courses they could play that are tighter but they can’t accommodate the spectator side of things and that’s where they can’t give up ticket sales and such
I read that for his career, Tiger's average for par 3s and 4s was about par, but for par 5s he was consistently under par. So perhaps they should drop Par 5s from championship courses.
Hardest game ever to play already, leave the ball alone. If they're so worried about distance make the pros use a different ball in competition. Why change it for it guy that can only hit it 230 when the pros are hitting it 330
I used balata balls when I started playing in the late 90s and absolutely loved them. No they weren't distance balls but they felt sooooo good and I could spin them accurately
Yep I played those as well back it the day lots of spin. Remember what everyone used to say? “If you blade it and you go get it it will be smiling at you” lol
Fully agree James. Make the game more accessible, and easier to attract players. I hear new golfers at my driving range complaining golf is too hard. 2030, it just gets harder.
Hi James/Gary. My attitude towards the modern game and the distance problem is not the ball or even the driver. My thought is to bring back the skill element. Particularly around the green - reduce the maximum loft allowed back to the old 56° sand wedge and limit the pitching wedge to 46° Only allow one wedge in-between, at whatever the player choses. This would make the skilled player more valuable and even if the bombers get the drives upto the green, it will only be an advantage if they are good enough to actually hit it!! If they miss, and the courses are set up with thick rough/water around them, they will have to have a skill set to get up and down. I would also make bunkers a hazard again, particularly in the pro game, by raking them with grooves in like they used to be and not perfectly smooth and manicured as they are now.
i played those as well... so will LIV have to use the roll back ball because they're not in the USGA ? and it makes no sense and golf needs to stand up to the USGA because without golfers they wouldn't exist.. I agree with you James why make it harder its hard enough and golfers have gotten better in the past 30 years since tiger came on the scene
You summed it up perfectly James when you said "WHY" is it being rolled back, what are they going to do when someone like Kyle Berkshire/Martin Borg joins the tour and hits it 50 yards longer than everyone else on tour because that will happen as young golfers now are all training in the gym and doing speed training to maximise performance. The powers that be are just trying to hide the fact they have got it so wrong with course design over the last 10-15 years. Courses round North England (local club courses) you lose your ball if you miss the fairway lol, pros play on courses where you can smash driver, miss a fairway by 80 yards and have clear shots in to soft greens... mmmm yes must be the balls fault.
MGS has done some great work on this issue, and I think most of us can agree that course setup can have a greater effect on scoring than the ball rollback, on tour. Most of us aren't hitting it near what the top 1% of golfers are, but they've decided we all will suffer because of the minority of golfers.
I think it's a great idea. I would like to see pros hitting a driver and a long iron on a lot of par fours. Not a driver PW. Makes the game a lot more difficult. For the money they're making they need to work harder for it. BTW Tiger and of course Jack the 2 goats want it.
Best thing for golf. Most people play on courses that are an about 100 years old, so very short (under 6000 yards). I played Balatas before and what you lose in distance, you gain with feel around the green.
This seems like another contradiction to “ growing the game”. Organizations want more people to play but are potentially making it more difficult. I think this is another example of managing for the 1% rather than the majority. Our course ( municipal) is added more forward tees for juniors and seniors, not making it longer for the few scratch players. If the professional game is to “ easy” , some strategically placed hazards or rough can eliminate “ bomb and gouge”. Place the emphasis on accuracy rather than distance, reward skill rather than power. Merry Christmas
The 8 yard carry reduction is almost spot on with the projected 9 to 11 yard reduction for the average professional or elite male golfer. The difference could be the fact that that ball is 20 years old. I think the way to go is bifurcation. Reducing the ball based off the top .5% of professional golfers is absurd. Leave it alone for the amateurs and weekend warriors. My CHS with driver is on average 97 mph so I would lose about 5 yards of carry with driver. So that’s one more club into the green. I don’t see how this helps the game and my game too. This club CHS is in line with an LPGA tour professional on average.
I can remember playing these back in the day with persimmon, laminated maple and a stainless steel Stinger Driver. For the pro’s and players like yourselves I see a big change, amateur players I see change , but for the weekend warriors I don’t think it will make that much of difference. For me as a clubmaker I think the real change is in equipment, more traditional lofts, materials and so forth, etc.. I agree with Rory Mcilroy. I mean back in the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s you had pro’s hitting persimmon and laminated maple 300 yards.
I think the issue is they allowed the game to get so long with technology they are having to make a choice to stop it now because they cannot just add 100 more yards to all the golf courses. When I came up 400and under was a par 4 now 500 can still be a par 4. At some point the distance allowed into the game has to stop.
Agree...Companies have spent millions on R&D to get to where we are today. Are they expected to bin that? I think they will fight it. USGA clearly don't have work to do
I used those Z-balata balls in the early 90’s. They were ahead of the time, then brought out Strata in 96, the pioneer of the modern balls… Topflite then made the Hogan ball before selling out to Callaway. I don’t see how the proposed roll-back goes far enough at the top level. Make the longest club more difficult to hit farther, not by reducing the ball, but by reducing the length and adding loft so if the club head speed increases so will the spin, thus reducing the total distance of the drives.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that the rollback is STUPID. An overreaching overreaction to an extraordinarily specific problem; with THE WORST PUBLICITY EVER. The USGA and R&A used contradicting statements (“we need to protect the integrity of the game” & “amateurs won’t notice a difference”) to support their decision. I can’t overstate how stupid this decision and its rollout publicity are.
Top Flite Z Balata 90. I've been playing them most of this Autumn & Winter. I bought them probably in the late '90s, but they still perform adequately for social golf and for a balata ball they are incredibly hard-wearing. And, there's no chance of someone mistaking my ball for theirs. Sure, when the clocks change, the weather warms, and the '24 club matches kick off, then I'll switch to Chrome Softs, Pro V1s, and similar, but for 'out of season' social golf, I might as well use up my old stock of Z Balatas, Titleist Professional 90s, & Dunlop Lo/Cos. I think my last Stratas and MaxFli Revolutions went last winter, but I might still have the odd MaxFli HT, Titleist DT, HP2, and Tour Balata available. Admittedly, I have to do a bit of recalibrating, but it keeps me thinking and shot-creating, which is a good thing. Keep up the good work, James.
Unless you have a 120 mph swing speed or you play in sanctioned tournaments the ball roll back won’t effect you in anyway. Butch Harmon said it best, “Want twenty more yards of the tee? Move forward a tee box.”
I disagree with this. Why has every ball that's been marketed as being longer if it has never mattered? Also if it's not making any difference then what's the point of doing it at all?
@@only_son5040 every club sold in the last 25 years has been marketed on speed and distance . Now they are saying that doesn’t matter even though the avg am hits it the same distance they always did.
@ScottDreyfus well that's not true. There was a jump in the 90's when the pro v1 came out and another jump in the early 2000's when the driver head increased. It's been about 1yard every year increase since then. They could've just cut the driver shaft length for Pros
Wow James, I used the Top-Flight, Z-Balata golf ball in the 1990's, usually when having a casual round, or a quick 9 holes, and still have a few Z Balatas hanging around in an old golf bag in the attic. They were OK but scuffed up easily, especially after being in a bunker. They were hard off the face, but spun OK, but nowhere near the back then, Maxfli HT Balata, which was my chosen comp game ball, playing off 7 handicap back then. That was a long time ago, over 30 yrs, how time flies. Regarding the golf ball roll back, I agree James, the masses should not be punished, for the improvement of the few pro's who have trained hard to hit it further. Wind them back, not everyone else. They can easily restrict their clubs, by changing the face of their drivers, so it reduces the speed off the face, and that could be done by the tour trucks. Punishing the whole World of golf, for the advances made by the top 5% is wrong.
I think Seve had it right. Make the maximum number of clubs 13 (or even 12). That’d probably reduce the number of specialist wedges we’d all carry and put a premium on accuracy.
Instead of changing the ball, they could increase the yardages for a par 3 and 4. 325 yards or less is a par 3 for people playing from the back tees. 326-525 yards is a par 4. Maybe par 68 becomes the new normal for a golf course for professionals.
30% 0f the current balls on the market already meet the new standards. use one of those balls to test! Not a old ball that has nothing to do with modern golf ball tec.
Rant! I too believe someone in the USGA want to protect theirs name. The biggest difference between then and now is the player! The biggest effect will be felt by the average golfer! The average, new, older and ladies who cannot hit it 250 yards will be punished! They need to leave it as is and do like my local course. They grew the rough and added a few more bunkers and scores have gone up a lot. And I am not talking about 1 or 2. We are talking 4 to 6. And that's regular average short hitting golfers. Just add more places they cannot afford to miss. Shouldn't cost too much.
I have strong opinions about the golf ball roll back. First one is I still hear Jack Nicklaus saying tee it forward. He said tee it forward so you can use a middle iron into a par 4 hole rather than a hybrid or fairway wood to make it more fun. This will make it less fun. The everyday golfer does not need to have the rollback. For the pros, grow the rough longer and narrow the fairways. Make it a real penalty to miss a fairway. Look at the scores in a US Open, when they do that. Very few players are under par. That is without a gof ball rollback. Make the game more fun for the majority of golfers, not less fun. They will lose the casual golfer. That is is exactly the opposite of what they really want to grow the game.
Jack nicklaus has nothing to gain out of this though..... Oh wait yes he has Millions of dollars for him, his 3 sons and his son in law through their course building companies Talk about jobs for the boys
A few things to help the game be more relatable to watchers of pros: 1) Get rid of caddies and have players push their bag around. Get and clean your own club. 2) Have only 12 clubs in bag. Make do. 3) Drop driver size down to say 400cc. Or eliminate it all together. 4) No books, range finders etc, just sprinkler and 100m+150m markers. Play by feel and sight. That will lower the scores real quick. That would do for starters.
James, a rep from Acushnet said their only current ball that might pass the future test is the Pinnacle Soft. You should make a video comparing the Pinnacle Soft to the Pro V1. I think other experts have said that perhaps some of the current lowest compression golf balls like Callaway Supersoft and Wilson Duo might pass as well. They are slower off the driver, but also spin less off the irons so for average swing speeds, the softer balls can go a little further with the irons. Either way, I’m not in favor of the USGA’s decision.
I'm fairly certain the roll back won't affect 85% of the golfing world. Most golfers don't hit it off the middle of the longer clubs and have slow enough swing speeds for the punishment % to make much of a difference. It's supposed to only affect 5 iron and longer too, so for the scoring irons its 'supposed' to have no influence. Turning par 5s back into par 5s. People are just so quick to bash change for the sake of bashing change. Everyone is taking the pro differences and pretending it will have the same influence on the amateur. By all accounts it shouldn't Good quality dimples, covers etc will still exist, ball flight and spin etc should stay the same. The core will likely resemble more of a very soft ball that helps generate energy for slower swing speeds but becomes less efficient the faster the club hits the ball. It's all a hubaloo in an age of whinging about everything
I think players will stock up on golf balls in 2029. Unless you are playing a tournament it doesn't matter if you are playing an illegal ball. You still use a slope adjusted range finder. That is illegal in tournament play.
Everything that you highlighted, is why they want to roll back the balls. The upgrade in clubs over the last 20 years, has resulted in courses being to short.
The answer to the question at 6:18 is that the USGA needs to update the golf ball equipment rule for the Overall Distance Standard (ODS). Its that simple! They screwed up by not updating it since 2004. Like it or not, this new ODS will be put into place. If that results in the current balls being deemed "too hot", oh well. The ball companies will adjust like they did when the USGA/R&A stopped allowing the smaller European ball to be used in play. This change will happen because it is a Golf Rules change. The rules do change every once in a while like being able to leave the stick in when putting, being able to ground the club in a hazard, clubs limited to 46" and double-hits only counting as one stroke.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I watched several of these "rollback" videos, read many articles and tried to research the history of the ODS. My take is that the people yelling about the sky falling have not even tried to look deeper into the ODS situation and how the USGA needs to address it going forward as an equipment rule for golf. When they get the rule in place for 2030, it will be easier for them to stay ontop of it into the future. If they don;t act now, they might not be able to get a handle on it ever. Everything stated here is my perspective and given the state of my age and current game, it does not matter which way things go. I'd personally like to see some level headed discussions that take everything into account. With that said, how come no one is looking at how the USGA tests golf balls and why aren't they using something close to .83 COR for testing? Why is no club manufacturer willing to provide testing drivers? Why does the USGA only have ONE ball manufacturer for the STD ball? The USGA has the weight of the world on them with regard to setting the rules for golf and everyone wants to bust on them when are trying to do their job. Maybe the people we should be having the conversation with is the USGA to get the straight truth about the change which I truly do not believe is about "rollback". This is how I feel about this upcoming rules change and I don't see it as a huge issue. Maybe that should be the point? Its a rules change and everyone will get used it. And when it changes again in the future, we will get used to it.
Oh I'm gonna hate it. I'm currently a Callaway Chrome Tour player, and I have a lot of love for the Pro VI. If you tell me, I'm gonna lose 5-10% on all my clubs I'm going to be quiet unhappy
Tiger changed the way elite golfers train so now with the science based fitness workouts and diets these players are so much fitter and athletic than the players were 25 years ago, so of course they will be able to hit the balls much longer. this may discourage many of senior players who have already lost swing speed and distance possibly to the point where they give up playing. The USGA and PGA need the think of all the possible ramifications of the roll back.
I like the US Open winner being at even par. There's plenty of courses on the tour where the winner is 10 or more shots under par. There's no real challenge on those courses. The manufacturers have plenty of time to figure out how to claw as much of the losses back by the time 2030 gets here. It's going to be like a major rule change in F1, someone is going to hit on it and everyone will be playing catch up for a year or two.
I think you'll see manufacturers offering a "tour" ball that conforms to the new rule, and the current balls will remain available for those of us not playing tourneys ETC. I wonder if the manufacturers will simply make the newer balls softer, so they don't rebound off the club face as strongly.
I really enjoyed hearing your personal opinion on this james. You do seem to be a bit passionate about it, as you should be. I'm the same I think it's some nobody trying to leave there name in history by changing golf and all they're doing is passing people off
James great video and discussion, remember who the members of PGA & R&A committee’s are members of the old course’s on major rota, look at the scoring now at the majors. Looking after their interests in my view. The new courses are privately owned & built for profit. They need to look at Driver & fairway woods and how they go
I have seen the test, it will have little to no change for an average golfer. Most of you don’t hit it as hard or as far as you think you do. You are also hitting a Top Rock!! Grab a 1999 Titleist 100 or 90.
Changing the driver will impact the average player more than rolling back the ball. If your enjoyment of the game is diminished by the ball going 10 yards shorter then you’re doing it for the wrong reasons. Do you quit when it gets cooler and the ball doesn’t go as far?
So that's when they should play The Open then... Is that what you are saying? In 5 degrees with 40 mph north winds and zero roll.. I'd like to see those tour pros "tear up" the Old Course then.
To reduce the distance off the tee with driver, all that needs to happen is a change in the surface of the ball. Dimples on the modern ball help keep the ball airborne. Most manufacturers invest heavily in the design and testing of dimple patterns for their balls, to make them fly farther. A move to a less textured ball surface, changing nothing else, would make the ball less aerodynamic and it will fall out of the sky like a mishit knuckle ball with no spin. Having said that, for God's sake, don't even think about doing it.
I think the better option would be making the rough thicker and higher, and from 100 yards and in to the the the fairway shrinks and gets narrow, and make the fairways a little longer so they don’t get 80yards roll . There is not one golf course that average people play where you get that much roll unless it’s down hill.Fairway grass is shorter now than what the greens used to be cut , so getting 80+ yards roll is insane
The fact that it affects the am is the problem. I believe the ball needs to be rolled back for the pros but the course setups need to change too. My biggest issue is when people say we play the same stuff as the pros. That is factually incorrect. Every ball maker makes at least one ball you can’t buy already.
My personal opinion is that they should leave the balls as they are currently. If they are concerned about the pro hitting the balls too far then have "rollback tournament balls" for them to use at the tournaments. When the players get there, they are given the balls made by their specific manufacture.
HI JAMES, this can work for the pros. Amatures no. 1, first who is the selected maker . 2 , AS YOU KNOW HERE AT WOOLLEY THERE ARE ONLY 14 STAFF I UNDERSTAND , NOW THIS NEEDS POLICING SO BASED ON THIS CLUB , 8 MINUTES PER TEE TIME AROUND 8 PER HOUR , HOW ARE THE CLUB GOING TO MAKE SURE YOU ONLY HAVE THAT GOLFBALL? AND WHO IS GOING TO CHECK , WELL ONE PRO IS IN SHOP, IS OTHER GOING TO CHECK EACH PERSONS GOLFBALLS? IF SO THAT WILL TAKE LONGER LESS GROUPS LESS CASH , AND VISITORS ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE TO BUY GOLFBALLS FROM CLUB BEFORE GOING ON THE COURSE, WHAT THEN HAPPENS TO OTHER GOLFBALLS PEOPLE HAVE . IS IT LIKE OLD BANK NOTES YOU HAVE TO HAND THEM IN , WHAT OR HOW MANY DO WE GET IN RETURN, ALSO IF LIKE SOME OF US WE PLAY FOR FUN AND PLAY OUR SLIGHT AJUSTMENT TO RULES TO SPEED UP PLAY, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BUY NEW BALLS , ALSO WHAT HAPPENS TO GOLFBALLS WE FIND . MY OPINION IS THERE WILL BE COMPENSATION FOR OTHER MAKERS AND MAY MAKE THE GOVENING BODIES GO BUST. PAUL
Ball rollback is bad for golf!!! Hitting a long drive is the best part of the game for many people! As a 58 year old recreactional golfer I am already losing distance, I don't need any help from the USGA!!! The numbers don't make any sense to me ,15 yards to a fast swinging pro will mean 20 or 25 to a slow swinger like me! I might start stocking up on balls now! Maybe it will mean more fishing and less golf for me!!
James another great video and conversation ... I think the governing bodies should leave the ball alone the ball maybe going further for the top 1% ... golf is a really good place with the rollback i believe people will still play but not in comps that are either usaga or r&a santioned ..i am against the rollback i agree with you someone just wants leave a legacy in their name
Yes, God forbid we have to learn to actually play shots, shape shots and know distances. Golf was a much better game when it required some semblance of skill and wasn't a smash and putt game. You know... when you were hitting 3 wood into greens, having to manage a course to score. Back when 9 irons weren't a 165 club, and most players NEEDED 14 clubs and not just 5 or 6. Long courses require huge tracts of land and managing that is .... well damn expensive.
We average amature golfers aren't playing in tournaments and aren't making golf courses 'obsolete'. There are other things that could be done to tour courses instead of messing with the equipment. Narrower fairways, higher rough, more penalty for mis hits.
The easiest solution would be to develop some lesser performing ‘Pro balls’ that are used for all PGA competitions. Amateur golf competition organisers could also specify the use of this ball type if they want. For social and club competition golf there doesn’t need to be a lesser spec ball as the big hitting ‘issue’ doesn’t affect 99.9% of golfers. It would be a terrible waste if billions of golf balls were melted down just because Rory can occasionally cut the corner on the 13th at Augusta……
I’ve been playing golf since 86. The three greatest innovations have been the ball, mowing and agriculture practices, and uncoupling spin from loft . They are going to make it harder to fit not easier. A shit golf ball is just that.
"That's gone nowhere"....gc quad test reveals a 1.5% distance total...😂😅 come on, does this seem as dreadful as you thought? 7 year away problem I ain't got time for.
Easy solution to the distance problem: make the pros keep their headcovers on their drivers. Of course, this could lead to club makers developing high-performance head covers. Voila - no bifurcation!! Drastically reduced driver distances. Easy peasy.
All they had to do is freeze all golf ball development at 2023 for the average golfer (95% of players) who only carry it 220-230 with the driver and make a competition ball for the pros who on average now carry it over 315yards. This would save millions of dollars in ball research every year and millions for the very top courses the pros play in having to purchase more land…average players could then choose if they wanted to play the pros ball or not.
All they need to do is create a ball for the professional game or competition standard and leave us amatures be, we don’t hit it 350 yds and the games tough enough as is , or make the professionals use smaller cc drivers in competition.
I am not sure they are going back to balls that far. They claim that balls currently on the list conform. Based on the ball speed they are talking about and swing speed a lot of the lower compression balls might still conform after this change. The rollback isn’t linear we don’t all lose the same amount (not even percentage) as swing speed and smash factor produce a resultant ball speed and I know I can’t get near the number that has been put out so far.
I would agree, now that my swing speed has decreased because of age I have switched to a lower compression ball like the Callaway Supersoft of the TaylorMade Soft Response. These golf balls are around a 40 compression and with the testing swing of 120mph reduced to 115mph would probably still be legal as any soft compression does not perform as well with faster swings.
The golf ball roll ball is a solution looking for a problem that does not exist. Very simple. Just reduce driver head size for elite golfers. The rest of us can do with as much help as we can get. I grew up playing golf with Balata golf balls and persimmon woods. Played to mid single figure handicap. Still do c.30’years later.I am a better ball striker nowadays but scores are not much better. Players will adapt, elite players will simply swing it 5mph faster. Every one of them has an extra gear available and full time athletes. Nothing 12 weeks of speed training won’t fix!
The point the R&A have is that clasdic golf courses are being made to look like putch and putt by 15 handicappers. I agree that is very wrong. I think the R&A have selected the right option in limiting the ball. The club makers will still make money on the clubs and we always need new balls.
my understanding is the ball rule only applies to usga sponsored events .. like there is only 1, the masters. won't it be more interesting to just have the pga, liv, etc. so say, "cool story usga. we'll use the old ball because our fans want to see that. but have fun at the masters though.".
At 64 playing off 8.5 and don't play in comps I will just buy dozens of old balls for pennies , as hopefully they will want to offload them , and continue to enjoy my golf. As you said it's all about having fun and enjoyment.
Same here.
Same
So the issue is that players hit it too long for todays courses! Dont change the ball, dont lengthen the course, simply do what some private clubs do when pro competitions play there..... make the par 5s Par 4s. Even further, some par 4s can revert to Par3s. Now there's no tech changes needed, balls, shaft lengths, driver heads, etc. Outside of historical score/performance comparisons, its now a proper challenge for current tech and current skills, current physique and NO COST involved!(except scorecard printing)😅.
Am i missing something??
And no change for the Average golfer as our par 5 and 4s will remain as is. ie Pro score card vs Average scorecard.
I like this approach!
This isn’t an answer to a problem with private clubs. How many amateurs play from the tips at any given club? This is specifically for a few PGA venues, and their inclusion into major tournament rotation. Any other explanation is a LIE.
It's a direction to take..... a suggestion to move many PGA Tournament holes to lower pars, not to change the average player course (private or public) pars.
SAS golf had a good take on this and recommended a change in the minimum loft used by pros. The top guys are using 7 degree, but if you changed it to 10.5 degrees then it will be more effective.
I was just fitted for an 8* turned down to 7.25 😬
Bad Idea, it would hurt the average golfer alot more as the top level guys will just deloft the driver to whatever degree they need for optimal launch
def agree with that. a lot of people think more loft will help you fly the ball longer but the numbers say the complete opposite lol. i mean shit, you have guys like dechambeau hitting clubs that are so delofted it’s unreal lol
Although I could possibly play the same clubs as a pro in reality I would play worse. But a ball is something more players of greater variation of ability can play. So changing this affects us all even though the changes are aimed at Tour Pros. Just set the Tour courses up for the championships , make the greens super fast , grow the rough , leave the equipment alone .
Just shorten pro's driver shafts it's so easy
The average everyday golfer really doesn't care. Most don't play in tournaments or club championship. Most don't play by strict rules. They are out for fun. So they are going to play what ever ball they have. The usga, The r&a. Pga are so far out of touch with reality and the "average" golfer.
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Let's be honest. If those of us affected by the 2030 rollout can't get past having to make up the anticipated 1-5 yards, we probably shouldn't be playing this great game. There probably will be more rule changes we won't like. I frankly can't get too excited about 1-5 yards . And, I don't want to pay higher green fees for the courses I play if they were forced to make changes to comply with the rules.
@@gryjl1most members of clubs do play in club tournaments it’s a requirement to get a handicap. So they will all be affected. The last thing I want to do is have a debate over golf ball in my weekly stapleford.
@@jcdowns1the courses that would need to upgrade are those on the PGA Tour. They are super expensive regardless of how they grow the rough.
Great point about golfers who are working hard to gain a bit of speed and a few extra yards. They will take away those gains in an instant. You may still out drive your friends, but the courses aren't getting shorter. I'm doing speed work non stop to try to get one club less into greens and give me a chance to score better. It will cost us strokes, not just distance, and getting better at golf is really not easy. Ten yards off of a 250 yard drive will cost you at least a stroke a round.
Hi James and Gary. I am a 63 year old lady golfer. I don’t hit the golf ball too long. I am not a short hitter but I am often out driven by other senior lady golfers. I need all the distance I can get to reach a green in regulation. I love the summer golf play, when the course is firm and fast for the roll out of the golf ball. If I have to purchase a golf ball of 20 years ago my drive might average 100 yards and on a hole of 500 yard it will take me 5 shots to get on the green 2 putts 7. I will soon give up the game I’ve loved and played since I was 12 or so.
Given the information from both the USPGA and R&A is the average male golfer is expected to lose about 5/8 yards with their driver and they expect ladies to be less so I doubt it will be a problem and I would expect that in the 6 years until this is introduced both equipment and ball technologies will have advanced anyway.
I agree with you about the roll-back of the golfball James. The plan promises little but has the potential to harm the bread-and-butter weekend players' games. Furthermore, the overall impact on the professional game will be less than the impact of LIV on the PGA Tour.
Personally I would narrow the fairways, grow longer roughs and have an out of bounds surrounding each hole.
That would make them think more about clubbing down for accuracy instead of pulling driver
Ye you could do all that or just shorten pro's driver shafts
Ive said this before, so I will say it again. Course Supers need to make the course HARDER, NOT LONGER. Tighten the fairways, grow the rough, deepen some bunkers, and speed up the greens by either cutting and rolling more or get rid of regular bermuda.
At HYLAND GOLF COURSE, in SOUTHERN PINES, NC in the states, we have TIF-EAGLE HYBRID BERMUDA, which allows closer cutting and uses less water in the hottest weather. We also use a clockcut method everyday, by never cutting the greens in the same direction two days in a row. We also verticut as well as aerate every other year. This allows the ball to hold the green but still remain firm, preventing damaging ballmarks. The courses on the tour have made plenty of money yet, AUGUSTA is the only course in America that makes regular changes. Its time to spend that money that theyve been getting rich on instead of punishing the average golfer. Weve been punished enough with the rising costs we pay to play this game and try to GET GOOD AT GOLF.
I've said the same thing for years... Make the courses tougher... narrow the fairways ( dont let them have 20 to 30 yards of rollout) , make the rough longer and more of a penalty to be in, you could have the rough go in 3 stages, 1st cut is 2inches, 2nd cut is 4 inches, and 3rd cut is uncut and each cut has to be atleast 5 yards wide on each side. And speeding up the greens wont affect a Tour pro's score as much as people think....
I must admit, I love it when they struggle. A US Open at 2 under. Awesome. Alot of skill with really hard shots, not just a putting contest
With six years still to go there’s a lot of time for R&D and I can easily see the ball specification evolving to meet the new test criteria but with the % drop off being lower/negligible at slower speeds such that the average handicap golfer is barely affected. There are plenty smart people in the industry and they know this will be a winner from a sales and marketing perspective.
0:01 Well said James it's got to be easier to limit shaft length or tee length for pro's than mess about with the ball
Im Confused on how it works... How do you control shaft length for shorter or taller players? Did shorter height players just gain yards over the taller player?
@@ph469 You just reduce allowable max driver length to say 43inches for all the pro's easy
Here we go, might as well go wooden heads and steel shafts on driver
Rolling the boll back i suppose would entail developement costs for testing and manufactoring, just a thought , if all the companies refused to roll back the boll unless the PGA pays for all added costs, what could they do start there own manufactoring company, don`t think so
I’m in my 60’s now and use ProV1’s and used to play the Top Flite Z Balata ball in the dryer weather. It felt soft and definitely spins more than a ProV1 does. This was great back in the day, as it gave you more control with your irons and wedges. However, it definitely didn’t go as far. In the winter, I used to use the Molitor golf ball. Believe you me, if you topped one on a cold day, it felt like you’d broke all of your fingers!! that ball was so hard and had very low spin, which gave you much more distance (up to 20yds) off the tee. 😂
Bigger, longer, stronger - is not always better. My feel is tighten up courses, more dog legs, more fairway sand, tougher rough and put a premium on keeping ball in play and finesse. Maybe more links style courses. Seems like 6,200 to 6,700 yards is plenty long and put emphasis on accuracy and course strategy. The way the game is going with equipment cost and green fees, it is getting out of reach of many potential people. By adjusting courses, equipment, balls et al will take care of itself. FWIW.
i agree with that 100% but a lot of these venues they play at need to have that extra space for spectators. there’s probably TONS of suitable courses they could play that are tighter but they can’t accommodate the spectator side of things and that’s where they can’t give up ticket sales and such
I read that for his career, Tiger's average for par 3s and 4s was about par, but for par 5s he was consistently under par. So perhaps they should drop Par 5s from championship courses.
i think that same stat goes for a lot of these guys lol @@peterlarsen4809
Hardest game ever to play already, leave the ball alone. If they're so worried about distance make the pros use a different ball in competition. Why change it for it guy that can only hit it 230 when the pros are hitting it 330
I used balata balls when I started playing in the late 90s and absolutely loved them. No they weren't distance balls but they felt sooooo good and I could spin them accurately
Yep I played those as well back it the day lots of spin. Remember what everyone used to say? “If you blade it and you go get it it will be smiling at you” lol
Fully agree James. Make the game more accessible, and easier to attract players. I hear new golfers at my driving range complaining golf is too hard. 2030, it just gets harder.
@jamesrobinson... LOVE the fancy words @6:35... the ??? Urethra??? 😅, BUUUT, as always, love the content - nice shot, Gaz!
Peter Thompsons view was that all that was needed was to make the golf ball slightly lighter, just change the wight specifications
Hi James/Gary.
My attitude towards the modern game and the distance problem is not the ball or even the driver.
My thought is to bring back the skill element. Particularly around the green - reduce the maximum loft allowed back to the old 56° sand wedge and limit the pitching wedge to 46°
Only allow one wedge in-between, at whatever the player choses.
This would make the skilled player more valuable and even if the bombers get the drives upto the green, it will only be an advantage if they are good enough to actually hit it!! If they miss, and the courses are set up with thick rough/water around them, they will have to have a skill set to get up and down.
I would also make bunkers a hazard again, particularly in the pro game, by raking them with grooves in like they used to be and not perfectly smooth and manicured as they are now.
i played those as well... so will LIV have to use the roll back ball because they're not in the USGA ? and it makes no sense and golf needs to stand up to the USGA because without golfers they wouldn't exist.. I agree with you James why make it harder its hard enough and golfers have gotten better in the past 30 years since tiger came on the scene
You summed it up perfectly James when you said "WHY" is it being rolled back, what are they going to do when someone like Kyle Berkshire/Martin Borg joins the tour and hits it 50 yards longer than everyone else on tour because that will happen as young golfers now are all training in the gym and doing speed training to maximise performance.
The powers that be are just trying to hide the fact they have got it so wrong with course design over the last 10-15 years. Courses round North England (local club courses) you lose your ball if you miss the fairway lol, pros play on courses where you can smash driver, miss a fairway by 80 yards and have clear shots in to soft greens... mmmm yes must be the balls fault.
MGS has done some great work on this issue, and I think most of us can agree that course setup can have a greater effect on scoring than the ball rollback, on tour. Most of us aren't hitting it near what the top 1% of golfers are, but they've decided we all will suffer because of the minority of golfers.
I think it's a great idea. I would like to see pros hitting a driver and a long iron on a lot of par fours. Not a driver PW. Makes the game a lot more difficult. For the money they're making they need to work harder for it. BTW Tiger and of course Jack the 2 goats want it.
Why ?? How does that make it more enjoyable 🤷
And jack and tiger have got nothing to gain from it apart from millions of dollars in course design and maybe to protect their Goat status and egos
Best thing for golf. Most people play on courses that are an about 100 years old, so very short (under 6000 yards). I played Balatas before and what you lose in distance, you gain with feel around the green.
This seems like another contradiction to “ growing the game”. Organizations want more people to play but are potentially making it more difficult. I think this is another example of managing for the 1% rather than the majority. Our course ( municipal) is added more forward tees for juniors and seniors, not making it longer for the few scratch players. If the professional game is to “ easy” , some strategically placed hazards or rough can eliminate “ bomb and gouge”. Place the emphasis on accuracy rather than distance, reward skill rather than power. Merry Christmas
It feels like a total game-wide solution is being found for a problem that impacts 0.1% of players.
How can that make sense?
The 8 yard carry reduction is almost spot on with the projected 9 to 11 yard reduction for the average professional or elite male golfer. The difference could be the fact that that ball is 20 years old.
I think the way to go is bifurcation. Reducing the ball based off the top .5% of professional golfers is absurd. Leave it alone for the amateurs and weekend warriors. My CHS with driver is on average 97 mph so I would lose about 5 yards of carry with driver. So that’s one more club into the green. I don’t see how this helps the game and my game too. This club CHS is in line with an LPGA tour professional on average.
I can remember playing these back in the day with persimmon, laminated maple and a stainless steel Stinger Driver. For the pro’s and players like yourselves I see a big change, amateur players I see change , but for the weekend warriors I don’t think it will make that much of difference. For me as a clubmaker I think the real change is in equipment, more traditional lofts, materials and so forth, etc.. I agree with Rory Mcilroy. I mean back in the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s you had pro’s hitting persimmon and laminated maple 300 yards.
I think the issue is they allowed the game to get so long with technology they are having to make a choice to stop it now because they cannot just add 100 more yards to all the golf courses. When I came up 400and under was a par 4 now 500 can still be a par 4. At some point the distance allowed into the game has to stop.
Agree...Companies have spent millions on R&D to get to where we are today. Are they expected to bin that? I think they will fight it. USGA clearly don't have work to do
I wished they left it alone, I remember using the Balata ball back in the day
I used those Z-balata balls in the early 90’s. They were ahead of the time, then brought out Strata in 96, the pioneer of the modern balls… Topflite then made the Hogan ball before selling out to Callaway.
I don’t see how the proposed roll-back goes far enough at the top level. Make the longest club more difficult to hit farther, not by reducing the ball, but by reducing the length and adding loft so if the club head speed increases so will the spin, thus reducing the total distance of the drives.
Grow the rough, narrow the fairways, surely there are simple ways to make toughen the sport
I wholeheartedly agree with you that the rollback is STUPID. An overreaching overreaction to an extraordinarily specific problem; with THE WORST PUBLICITY EVER. The USGA and R&A used contradicting statements (“we need to protect the integrity of the game” & “amateurs won’t notice a difference”) to support their decision.
I can’t overstate how stupid this decision and its rollout publicity are.
Top Flite Z Balata 90. I've been playing them most of this Autumn & Winter. I bought them probably in the late '90s, but they still perform adequately for social golf and for a balata ball they are incredibly hard-wearing. And, there's no chance of someone mistaking my ball for theirs.
Sure, when the clocks change, the weather warms, and the '24 club matches kick off, then I'll switch to Chrome Softs, Pro V1s, and similar, but for 'out of season' social golf, I might as well use up my old stock of Z Balatas, Titleist Professional 90s, & Dunlop Lo/Cos. I think my last Stratas and MaxFli Revolutions went last winter, but I might still have the odd MaxFli HT, Titleist DT, HP2, and Tour Balata available. Admittedly, I have to do a bit of recalibrating, but it keeps me thinking and shot-creating, which is a good thing.
Keep up the good work, James.
Unless you have a 120 mph swing speed or you play in sanctioned tournaments the ball roll back won’t effect you in anyway. Butch Harmon said it best, “Want twenty more yards of the tee? Move forward a tee box.”
Shut up
that just isn’t true at all lmao
I disagree with this. Why has every ball that's been marketed as being longer if it has never mattered? Also if it's not making any difference then what's the point of doing it at all?
@@only_son5040 every club sold in the last 25 years has been marketed on speed and distance . Now they are saying that doesn’t matter even though the avg am hits it the same distance they always did.
@ScottDreyfus well that's not true. There was a jump in the 90's when the pro v1 came out and another jump in the early 2000's when the driver head increased. It's been about 1yard every year increase since then. They could've just cut the driver shaft length for Pros
Wow James, I used the Top-Flight, Z-Balata golf ball in the 1990's, usually when having a casual round, or a quick 9 holes, and still have a few Z Balatas hanging around in an old golf bag in the attic. They were OK but scuffed up easily, especially after being in a bunker. They were hard off the face, but spun OK, but nowhere near the back then, Maxfli HT Balata, which was my chosen comp game ball, playing off 7 handicap back then. That was a long time ago, over 30 yrs, how time flies.
Regarding the golf ball roll back, I agree James, the masses should not be punished, for the improvement of the few pro's who have trained hard to hit it further. Wind them back, not everyone else. They can easily restrict their clubs, by changing the face of their drivers, so it reduces the speed off the face, and that could be done by the tour trucks. Punishing the whole World of golf, for the advances made by the top 5% is wrong.
Pro V1 is a lower spinning ball, hence the difference and half the balls we use today (the cheaper ones) will probably conform anyway 🍻
Absolutely correct. It will just mean, that the cheaper balls will now (after the change) fly as far as the top tier balls.
Does anyone think 10 yards off the driver for Rory, Rahm etc make a difference?
should have rolled it back more
I think Seve had it right. Make the maximum number of clubs 13 (or even 12). That’d probably reduce the number of specialist wedges we’d all carry and put a premium on accuracy.
Instead of changing the ball, they could increase the yardages for a par 3 and 4. 325 yards or less is a par 3 for people playing from the back tees. 326-525 yards is a par 4. Maybe par 68 becomes the new normal for a golf course for professionals.
James can not understand this ruling, the beauty of golf pro or amateur is that no 2 games are the same.
Merry Christmas, all
30% 0f the current balls on the market already meet the new standards. use one of those balls to test! Not a old ball that has nothing to do with modern golf ball tec.
Rant! I too believe someone in the USGA want to protect theirs name. The biggest difference between then and now is the player! The biggest effect will be felt by the average golfer! The average, new, older and ladies who cannot hit it 250 yards will be punished!
They need to leave it as is and do like my local course. They grew the rough and added a few more bunkers and scores have gone up a lot. And I am not talking about 1 or 2. We are talking 4 to 6. And that's regular average short hitting golfers. Just add more places they cannot afford to miss. Shouldn't cost too much.
I have strong opinions about the golf ball roll back. First one is I still hear Jack Nicklaus saying tee it forward. He said tee it forward so you can use a middle iron into a par 4 hole rather than a hybrid or fairway wood to make it more fun. This will make it less fun. The everyday golfer does not need to have the rollback. For the pros, grow the rough longer and narrow the fairways. Make it a real penalty to miss a fairway. Look at the scores in a US Open, when they do that. Very few players are under par. That is without a gof ball rollback. Make the game more fun for the majority of golfers, not less fun. They will lose the casual golfer. That is is exactly the opposite of what they really want to grow the game.
You do know that Jack Nicklaus has been campaigning for the ball to be rolled back for two decades!
So?
Jack nicklaus has nothing to gain out of this though.....
Oh wait yes he has
Millions of dollars for him, his 3 sons and his son in law through their course building companies
Talk about jobs for the boys
The ball doesn't need changed. Tighten up the fairways, grow the rough, and speed up the greens.( sounds like a US OPEN doesn't it) works every time.
A few things to help the game be more relatable to watchers of pros:
1) Get rid of caddies and have players push their bag around. Get and clean your own club.
2) Have only 12 clubs in bag. Make do.
3) Drop driver size down to say 400cc. Or eliminate it all together.
4) No books, range finders etc, just sprinkler and 100m+150m markers. Play by feel and sight.
That will lower the scores real quick. That would do for starters.
I will not play the "new"/old ball going forward. As a senior I'm not doing that. I have enough distance issues already.
James, a rep from Acushnet said their only current ball that might pass the future test is the Pinnacle Soft. You should make a video comparing the Pinnacle Soft to the Pro V1. I think other experts have said that perhaps some of the current lowest compression golf balls like Callaway Supersoft and Wilson Duo might pass as well. They are slower off the driver, but also spin less off the irons so for average swing speeds, the softer balls can go a little further with the irons. Either way, I’m not in favor of the USGA’s decision.
James, I have a couple of sleeves of Titleist Tour 90s if you fancy continuing this series!
Merry Christmas! Played a Balata yesterday. It was in my collection of used balls.
I'm fairly certain the roll back won't affect 85% of the golfing world. Most golfers don't hit it off the middle of the longer clubs and have slow enough swing speeds for the punishment % to make much of a difference.
It's supposed to only affect 5 iron and longer too, so for the scoring irons its 'supposed' to have no influence.
Turning par 5s back into par 5s.
People are just so quick to bash change for the sake of bashing change.
Everyone is taking the pro differences and pretending it will have the same influence on the amateur. By all accounts it shouldn't
Good quality dimples, covers etc will still exist, ball flight and spin etc should stay the same. The core will likely resemble more of a very soft ball that helps generate energy for slower swing speeds but becomes less efficient the faster the club hits the ball.
It's all a hubaloo in an age of whinging about everything
I think players will stock up on golf balls in 2029. Unless you are playing a tournament it doesn't matter if you are playing an illegal ball. You still use a slope adjusted range finder. That is illegal in tournament play.
Everything that you highlighted, is why they want to roll back the balls. The upgrade in clubs over the last 20 years, has resulted in courses being to short.
The answer to the question at 6:18 is that the USGA needs to update the golf ball equipment rule for the Overall Distance Standard (ODS). Its that simple! They screwed up by not updating it since 2004. Like it or not, this new ODS will be put into place. If that results in the current balls being deemed "too hot", oh well. The ball companies will adjust like they did when the USGA/R&A stopped allowing the smaller European ball to be used in play. This change will happen because it is a Golf Rules change. The rules do change every once in a while like being able to leave the stick in when putting, being able to ground the club in a hazard, clubs limited to 46" and double-hits only counting as one stroke.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I watched several of these "rollback" videos, read many articles and tried to research the history of the ODS. My take is that the people yelling about the sky falling have not even tried to look deeper into the ODS situation and how the USGA needs to address it going forward as an equipment rule for golf. When they get the rule in place for 2030, it will be easier for them to stay ontop of it into the future. If they don;t act now, they might not be able to get a handle on it ever. Everything stated here is my perspective and given the state of my age and current game, it does not matter which way things go. I'd personally like to see some level headed discussions that take everything into account. With that said, how come no one is looking at how the USGA tests golf balls and why aren't they using something close to .83 COR for testing? Why is no club manufacturer willing to provide testing drivers? Why does the USGA only have ONE ball manufacturer for the STD ball? The USGA has the weight of the world on them with regard to setting the rules for golf and everyone wants to bust on them when are trying to do their job. Maybe the people we should be having the conversation with is the USGA to get the straight truth about the change which I truly do not believe is about "rollback". This is how I feel about this upcoming rules change and I don't see it as a huge issue. Maybe that should be the point? Its a rules change and everyone will get used it. And when it changes again in the future, we will get used to it.
Oh I'm gonna hate it. I'm currently a Callaway Chrome Tour player, and I have a lot of love for the Pro VI. If you tell me, I'm gonna lose 5-10% on all my clubs I'm going to be quiet unhappy
Tiger changed the way elite golfers train so now with the science based fitness workouts and diets these players are so much fitter and athletic than the players were 25 years ago, so of course they will be able to hit the balls much longer. this may discourage many of senior players who have already lost swing speed and distance possibly to the point where they give up playing. The USGA and PGA need the think of all the possible ramifications of the roll back.
I like the US Open winner being at even par. There's plenty of courses on the tour where the winner is 10 or more shots under par. There's no real challenge on those courses. The manufacturers have plenty of time to figure out how to claw as much of the losses back by the time 2030 gets here. It's going to be like a major rule change in F1, someone is going to hit on it and everyone will be playing catch up for a year or two.
I think you'll see manufacturers offering a "tour" ball that conforms to the new rule, and the current balls will remain available for those of us not playing tourneys ETC. I wonder if the manufacturers will simply make the newer balls softer, so they don't rebound off the club face as strongly.
Golf ball roll back already happened when we changed to the bigger American ball 1.68" diameter over the British ball at 1,62" which went further.
I really enjoyed hearing your personal opinion on this james. You do seem to be a bit passionate about it, as you should be. I'm the same I think it's some nobody trying to leave there name in history by changing golf and all they're doing is passing people off
James great video and discussion, remember who the members of PGA & R&A committee’s are members of the old course’s on major rota, look at the scoring now at the majors. Looking after their interests in my view. The new courses are privately owned & built for profit. They need to look at Driver & fairway woods and how they go
I have seen the test, it will have little to no change for an average golfer. Most of you don’t hit it as hard or as far as you think you do. You are also hitting a Top Rock!! Grab a 1999 Titleist 100 or 90.
Changing the driver will impact the average player more than rolling back the ball. If your enjoyment of the game is diminished by the ball going 10 yards shorter then you’re doing it for the wrong reasons. Do you quit when it gets cooler and the ball doesn’t go as far?
So that's when they should play The Open then...
Is that what you are saying?
In 5 degrees with 40 mph north winds and zero roll..
I'd like to see those tour pros "tear up" the Old Course then.
Why not cap the loft of the driver at minimum 10 degrees, doesn't affect most, but would reduce distance on the big hitters?
To reduce the distance off the tee with driver, all that needs to happen is a change in the surface of the ball. Dimples on the modern ball help keep the ball airborne. Most manufacturers invest heavily in the design and testing of dimple patterns for their balls, to make them fly farther. A move to a less textured ball surface, changing nothing else, would make the ball less aerodynamic and it will fall out of the sky like a mishit knuckle ball with no spin.
Having said that, for God's sake, don't even think about doing it.
Here's an idea.... let's make the hole 1/4 inch smaller....
I think the better option would be making the rough thicker and higher, and from 100 yards and in to the the the fairway shrinks and gets narrow, and make the fairways a little longer so they don’t get 80yards roll . There is not one golf course that average people play where you get that much roll unless it’s down hill.Fairway grass is shorter now than what the greens used to be cut , so getting 80+ yards roll is insane
The fact that it affects the am is the problem. I believe the ball needs to be rolled back for the pros but the course setups need to change too. My biggest issue is when people say we play the same stuff as the pros. That is factually incorrect. Every ball maker makes at least one ball you can’t buy already.
My personal opinion is that they should leave the balls as they are currently. If they are concerned about the pro hitting the balls too far then have "rollback tournament balls" for them to use at the tournaments. When the players get there, they are given the balls made by their specific manufacture.
HI JAMES, this can work for the pros. Amatures no. 1, first who is the selected maker . 2 , AS YOU KNOW HERE AT WOOLLEY THERE ARE ONLY 14 STAFF I UNDERSTAND , NOW THIS NEEDS POLICING SO BASED ON THIS CLUB , 8 MINUTES PER TEE TIME AROUND 8 PER HOUR , HOW ARE THE CLUB GOING TO MAKE SURE YOU ONLY HAVE THAT GOLFBALL? AND WHO IS GOING TO CHECK , WELL ONE PRO IS IN SHOP, IS OTHER GOING TO CHECK EACH PERSONS GOLFBALLS? IF SO THAT WILL TAKE LONGER LESS GROUPS LESS CASH , AND VISITORS ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE TO BUY GOLFBALLS FROM CLUB BEFORE GOING ON THE COURSE, WHAT THEN HAPPENS TO OTHER GOLFBALLS PEOPLE HAVE . IS IT LIKE OLD BANK NOTES YOU HAVE TO HAND THEM IN , WHAT OR HOW MANY DO WE GET IN RETURN, ALSO IF LIKE SOME OF US WE PLAY FOR FUN AND PLAY OUR SLIGHT AJUSTMENT TO RULES TO SPEED UP PLAY, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BUY NEW BALLS , ALSO WHAT HAPPENS TO GOLFBALLS WE FIND . MY OPINION IS THERE WILL BE COMPENSATION FOR OTHER MAKERS AND MAY MAKE THE GOVENING BODIES GO BUST. PAUL
Ball rollback is bad for golf!!! Hitting a long drive is the best part of the game for many people! As a 58 year old recreactional golfer I am already losing distance, I don't need any help from the USGA!!! The numbers don't make any sense to me ,15 yards to a fast swinging pro will mean 20 or 25 to a slow swinger like me! I might start stocking up on balls now! Maybe it will mean more fishing and less golf for me!!
Before I quit , we never had the privilege of playing big modern drivers or good balls but we where happy because we didn’t know any better.
James another great video and conversation ... I think the governing bodies should leave the ball alone the ball maybe going further for the top 1% ... golf is a really good place with the rollback i believe people will still play but not in comps that are either usaga or r&a santioned ..i am against the rollback i agree with you someone just wants leave a legacy in their name
As usual , the R&A and USGA have a solution in search of a problem. Those clowns could not touch their asses if they used both hands!
Yes, God forbid we have to learn to actually play shots, shape shots and know distances. Golf was a much better game when it required some semblance of skill and wasn't a smash and putt game. You know... when you were hitting 3 wood into greens, having to manage a course to score. Back when 9 irons weren't a 165 club, and most players NEEDED 14 clubs and not just 5 or 6. Long courses require huge tracts of land and managing that is .... well damn expensive.
Good review and informative. Interesting what that ball looked like when you cut it in half. Wasn’t sure what it would show
We average amature golfers aren't playing in tournaments and aren't making golf courses 'obsolete'. There are other things that could be done to tour courses instead of messing with the equipment. Narrower fairways, higher rough, more penalty for mis hits.
They should just let all amateur and recreational golfers use the same balls we do now but roll back the ball only for colllege and pro golfers.
The easiest solution would be to develop some lesser performing ‘Pro balls’ that are used for all PGA competitions. Amateur golf competition organisers could also specify the use of this ball type if they want. For social and club competition golf there doesn’t need to be a lesser spec ball as the big hitting ‘issue’ doesn’t affect 99.9% of golfers. It would be a terrible waste if billions of golf balls were melted down just because Rory can occasionally cut the corner on the 13th at Augusta……
I’ve been playing golf since 86. The three greatest innovations have been the ball, mowing and agriculture practices, and uncoupling spin from loft . They are going to make it harder to fit not easier. A shit golf ball is just that.
"That's gone nowhere"....gc quad test reveals a 1.5% distance total...😂😅 come on, does this seem as dreadful as you thought? 7 year away problem I ain't got time for.
Easy solution to the distance problem: make the pros keep their headcovers on their drivers. Of course, this could lead to club makers developing high-performance head covers. Voila - no bifurcation!! Drastically reduced driver distances. Easy peasy.
What about the course slope and par ratings, will all of these need to be altered to take into account that the ball does not travel as far?
All they had to do is freeze all golf ball development at 2023 for the average golfer (95% of players) who only carry it 220-230 with the driver and make a competition ball for the pros who on average now carry it over 315yards. This would save millions of dollars in ball research every year and millions for the very top courses the pros play in having to purchase more land…average players could then choose if they wanted to play the pros ball or not.
For us as amateurs! Do not allow this to happen!!!!! Voice your opinion to those with the power.
Pretty sure they changed the ball back in the 1970's from a smaller size to the larger size used today, wich changed spin and distance rates.
All they need to do is create a ball for the professional game or competition standard and leave us amatures be, we don’t hit it 350 yds and the games tough enough as is , or make the professionals use smaller cc drivers in competition.
Rory as usual talking utter bollox 👍
I am not sure they are going back to balls that far.
They claim that balls currently on the list conform. Based on the ball speed they are talking about and swing speed a lot of the lower compression balls might still conform after this change. The rollback isn’t linear we don’t all lose the same amount (not even percentage) as swing speed and smash factor produce a resultant ball speed and I know I can’t get near the number that has been put out so far.
I would agree, now that my swing speed has decreased because of age I have switched to a lower compression ball like the Callaway Supersoft of the TaylorMade Soft Response. These golf balls are around a 40 compression and with the testing swing of 120mph reduced to 115mph would probably still be legal as any soft compression does not perform as well with faster swings.
The golf ball roll ball is a solution looking for a problem that does not exist. Very simple. Just reduce driver head size for elite golfers. The rest of us can do with as much help as we can get. I grew up playing golf with Balata golf balls and persimmon woods. Played to mid single figure handicap. Still do c.30’years later.I am a better ball striker nowadays but scores are not much better. Players will adapt, elite players will simply swing it 5mph faster. Every one of them has an extra gear available and full time athletes. Nothing 12 weeks of speed training won’t fix!
Why does it matter how far the best players in the world hit it, they are the best for a reason
The point the R&A have is that clasdic golf courses are being made to look like putch and putt by 15 handicappers. I agree that is very wrong. I think the R&A have selected the right option in limiting the ball. The club makers will still make money on the clubs and we always need new balls.
Merry Christmas, James
my understanding is the ball rule only applies to usga sponsored events .. like there is only 1, the masters. won't it be more interesting to just have the pga, liv, etc. so say, "cool story usga. we'll use the old ball because our fans want to see that. but have fun at the masters though.".
Bring back the Spalding tour Edition golf ball