ECHO Review - BEST MARVEL In Years, or a Total Mess?
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2024
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Echo explores a dark and gritty corner pf the Marvel Cinematic Universe (that could have shown us way more grit). But did the show succeed? Is Wilson Fisk a key villain in the MCU, or is he reduced to an also-ran villain? We break down what made the show work, and where it fell short.
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Lee Mazzio and Ethan Lavinsky
Featuring
Heather Antos / heatherantos
Colton Ogburn / coltonogburn 
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Anytime Ryan blinks like crazy you know it's going to be another ragebait video. Every single time like clockwork he turns into Blinky McDipstick.
It's quite crazy that they've managed to screw this up to such a degree, as written in the comic this character should have been tons of fun. Same "new" Disney. Everything they touch turns to shit. They have the Shitmas touch.
Your simping for Disney is obvious & looks sad
So what you are saying Choctaw indigenous people can only write storie for themselves & not anyone else according to your logic. See how narrow minded you are.
The fact you think this show is good rather than great tells me you have no taste, integrity and sense. As a long time comic fan and cinephile I can’t see we have much in common. It’s time real fans stood up to these corporate hacks instead of pandering to them. We need people like you to stand up to them and tell the kids they are being tricked, that there is a bar set previously that these shows fail to meet consistently. Come on man grow a pair. This is about honour and integrity now. These corporations have destroyed the comic industry and many people’s livelihoods and wrecked fans sensibilities. Call it like it is and be a leader not a shill with no respect from their peers. I’m assuming you don’t have kids.
The problem is what Maya wanted was "To Be Queen' for most of the show. They expected us to root for a villain who never showed true remorse IMO. I juxtapose this with the hate Peacemaker felt for himself & how easy it was to start feeling empathy for him.
Maya seemed to be finger pointing a bit too much for me... lets not forget - she worked for Kingpin during the human trafficking days & never once do I feel her regret.
I agree with this take. Maya's ancestors talked about protecting their people when they used their power. Maya, in contrast, has been killing people for Fisk for years and plans to be queen of a crime syndicate? There is no way she didn't kill someone very much like her father when working with Fisk and less chance she wouldn't have to again in order to consolidate the power necessary to take over his organization (from Oklahoma not New York?).
Add the flashbacks of her injuring the bird and kicking the guy in the alley, and you see a lifetime pattern of doing the wrong thing without any scenes showing, understanding let alone remorse or regret for her actions beyond what she has personally lost or might lose. Why would these ancestors grant power when she hasn't had any type of fundamental change through the series that would make her a protector of her people beyond those she's directly related to. It's really Black Crow and Biscuits that save anyone not directly related to Maya.
Thank you for the Hawkeye take! I didn’t mind the Hawkeye flashbacks because they felt relevant to Maya’s story
It could have been drip fed to the audience instead of shoving it down our throats to swallow in one sitting
Come on now, show was cut to 5 Episodes, 1 was atleast 50% flashbacks, that is lazy writing.
As a Middle aged Native American women, I loved this!!!!!! When I saw the creation story I cried. Most people have seen movie with their religious stories, but for me I never have seen it. Just heard the stories and Echo is bad ass! Every time Marvel showed Maya shooting Fisk from Hawkeye I screamed! She looks sooo cool. The idea of a Native American women shooting a large white man with a gun?!?!!?? Awesome, I can’t explain to you the feelings I got from seeing this on TV. I loved this, really wish I could see more, also that POW wow scene was killer!
Yes yes yes!! As a mixed Native woman of Wabanaki heritage, this show made me cry a bit in almost every episode. I’m also a Veteran and help people now who have PTSD, so the healing element really touched me. I’m just so excited about all of this and am grateful to see so much representation and heart in Echo. 💜🌿🪶
Yawn.....this show was so heavy handed.
What a shit show!
Too bad the show sucked bad though.
I had a totally different take on what Maya did to Fisk at the end. She undid him. It's up to him from here forward whether he wants to heal, or go back to what he was before, but she totally laid him bare. She tore away all his anger, and hate, and reduced him back to a little boy. That was possibly Fisk's greatest fear, to have to face how small he is inside. That's why he cried what did you do? and he fled. That scene was fast because he ran away from her. She showed him that healing was possible with the eye, but again it's up to him from here forward what he wants to do. I think we all know what he's going to do, but it was so refreshing to have a true alternative to just violence. More violence just perpetuates the cycle, this was a break in the cycle, a true this could end and things could be different moment. I hope this show was honoring for the Native Americans. I found it to be a very female centric story, which is going to seem different in the super hero genre. A different perspective and different options are exactly what I've been wanting, apparently.
Everyone says: "Robert Downey Jr IS Ironman." "Charlie Cox IS Daredevil" & "Chris Evans is Captain America" but Vincent D'Onofrio truly IS Kingpin.
As an Indigenous woman who is a huge MCU fan, this show meant so much to me. Was it perfect? Of course not, but I loved it so much. To see an actual powwow in a Marvel show was amazing when most people I meet think “powwow” just means “meeting.” When my grandma went to school she wasn’t allowed to speak her language (Cherokee), but now Marvel has Indigenous languages onscreen? It’s so significant in so many ways. Thank you for covering this show so well, Ryan!
P.S. if you ever want to get an Indigenous perspective, I would love to nerd out with you all!
Good for you. Now elevate your thinking to not need fictional characters to look like you to be able to relate. Relate to universal truths, experiences and traits instead of something so shallow as skin color or esoteric culture. This pandering is cheap dopamine.
@@VVVY777spoken like a true white guy
@@VVVY777 Show me where in my comment I said anything about NOT relating to other characters who aren’t Indigenous, or even where I talked about “relating” at all. I said it was great to see experiences like a powwow or speaking Indigenous languages on screen, since generally we don’t see those in mainstream media very often. I relate to tons of characters, but that doesn’t mean I can’t also be thrilled to see unexplored aspects of my specific life experience on screen too.
Native American culture and lore seems so much interesting and mystical that it makes me wanna learn all about it 🥰
Loved it as well since I have native blood line. Im normally one to attack marvel and all thier crap but only ones crying are white men still living in the basement.
No Colton. They already have that. She never used beams of light. I loved her origin story and the fact that this came from the actual Choctaw lore is amazing. As a Native American Cherokee and Choctaw I loved it!!!
He didn't say she used beams of light, he said he was rired of glowy hands and in addition yet unrelated, beams of light. You are obviously biased.
Exactly. This wasn't a disappointing change from the books... it was an improvement.
Why is her name Maya Lopez id she's Choctaw?
Last episode felt really rushed of what I considered a very good series. I do agree with you that the villains need to win.
all mcu show finales have been the shortest ones. its driving me up the wall really.
The glowy hands are just the “activation” of her powers… she’s still just mimicking moves… it’s just been changed to only her ancestors
Although I can understand why so many people are upset with Echo having powers, I think her abilities are overlooked (at least from an Indigenous perspective). I love how her powers stem from her ancestry. So much of who we are as indigenous people come from our lineage and kinship.
Furthermore, to answer why her ancestors are only female, we need to recognize that indigenous cosmology prior to colonization is Matrilineal, meaning women held power and significance in our communities. It is also very common practice that our first clan is passed down through our mothers.
Finally, I love how each ancestor carried their own “power” that was true to their individual (such as Echo’s mother being a “healer” because that’s true to her character). This is evident today through Indigenous traditional knowledge systems that aim to nurture ones abilities and talents rather than conforming them to today’s world.
Her abilities are beautiful and are a gift!
@Jay… Finally a worthy perspective in her abilities. It actually caters to the actual heritage of the indigenous people. Well said.
I'm genuinely shocked that so many people are upset they changed her powers from the comic. That was one of the best things about this show as far as I'm concerned. In the comics, Echo is just deaf Taskmaster. This show reimagined her power set in a way that suits her character and is unique to her - similar to Ms. Marvel being reimagined so she's not just "ethnic Mr. Fantastic" - I'm very happy with these sorts of changes.
That said, I *was* a little disappointed with how those powers manifested themselves on screen - I agree with Colton, "glowy hands" is getting old.
I think Maya's power for this series is acceptable in context of there is no existing power to heal. Her fighting skills are just that, skills that are learned, like Hawkeyes both skills and Daredevil's fighting skills. She is a damaged child who is now become an empowered female character, both as a woman and as a native American.
I think they did an excellent job providing the background to the Choctaw tribe, because I was taught their tragic history when I was in high school, forced to leave their tribal lands in Alabama and walking all the way to government lands in Oklahoma on the infamous "Trail of Tears", which they did not include in this series.
That sounds like she is nothing but labels rather than a character and thats what Marvel is these days. Like look these women have powers rather than this character is who they are because of XYZ oh and shes also a female who is (instert trope). These programmes stink of lazy writing
@@shomarinangwaya-walker8295 it's not lazy riding when you actually include the Choctaw Nation to review and accept and control what is being written as dialogue in that series.
I am a 72-year-old Caucasian male, so my acceptance of this series is not based on anything other than it being a good story to me.
@@shomarinangwaya-walker8295| No, you just didn't want to like them from the start, which is why you have the insert trope line ready to use. Just admit it, there isn't one thing you'll like unless it adheres to every little non-diverse concept you want in your comics. The problem is you're type isn't the only ones who consume comic book superhero TV shows & movies. But whenever there isn't a straight White man lead a lot of the internet starts to complain about every single little thing, including ScreenCrush. A lot of the time it's subconscious, however I think a lot of the time it's not. So many review bomb anything diverse even if it's really good. Like this show was.
@@Scorpid_Black_Dragon| Agreed. I'm a 45 year old straight man & I see how anything diverse is met with dislike by a loud minority. Even if it's actually really good, which this was to me. But somehow I already knew it was gonna get shit on by the likes of ScreenCrush & others. Like the guy you were replying to, anytime you read the words insert trope, you know it's gonna be one of those anti-diverse comic book fans that just want the typical straight White man leads.
@juanmurillo3176 firstly i don't know what telling me your age and race has to do with anything once again you think those things tell me who you are and explain stuff. You could be green and from the moon for all i care. I'll tell you my back story. I am one of those people who gave this character a chance to be here by putting up my lunch money weekly to buy these comics and i fell in love with the character straight away and this was because of great writing which isn't present in this programme you can see it straight away. Them giving her more connections to her roots does not make her a better character she is no Karen from the original Daredevil show. Maya fits into the cookie cutter Disney characters just dipped in brown with a sprinkle of Indian dust just to be representive. I just love good characters male or female no matter the colour as i will tell you look at my name. If you want to see a great female character of the top of my head look at Peggy in Mad Men. I guess i came into this with my expectations to high for a character i hoped they would do right by
I didn’t mind her new powers but I think it’s kinda weird for the showrunners to completely shit on her comic book powers. I think there could have been a way for them to kinda split the difference in maybe giving her future sight when it comes to fighting…kinda like observation Haki (if you’re a one piece fan you know). Like she could see like a few mins or so before a fight breaks out and she could counter and dodge incoming attacks.
I really like every movie and tv show with Vincent D’onofrio. He puts a lot of effort and feelings into the characters he plays.
I haven't watched a lot of his stuff, but, The Cell, that's one of my top 10 favorite movies. Mostly b/c of the villain.
You should look him up because he plays a really good criminal investigator and he can play a very good psychopath.
Make a show with him lead character then... poof... a good show!. cut the racial elements, handicap focus... use a likeable star as lead role! (don't focus on checking boxes)
He was the only good thing about this show.
@Josh_Noble he was in jurassic world as a villain a bad guy
It was good but I didn't understand the goal for the main characters. Was Maya wanting to take over the Fisk empire, destroy it, or just go back to her family? What was Fisk's goal -- get Maya back? It wasn't clear to me.
I had a problem with this too. I theorized upon Fisk's return that he was offering Maya the empire so that he could go legit and run for mayor, but then they didn't even end up revealing the mayor bit until the post credits scene, and it ended up coming off as though Fisk only just came up with the idea of running for mayor while watching the news on his private jet post-confrontation with Maya. It really undermined his own character motivations and penchant for meticulous planning and control. Fisk isn't someone that does things on a whim, not unless he's provoked into violence.
As for Maya, I'm still not even certain why she felt the need to hide out in her hometown. Surely she would've expected Fisk's people to follow her there and endanger her family. It's literally his MO, and she would have known that, even if she thought he was dead?
@@annabellahoward5442I concur 💯 percent!
I agree with a lot of that…the last episode did feel rushed and it totally makes sense that the original plan was for 6 episodes. But I thought ep. 4 had some of the best acting in Marvel in a while. The conversation between Maya and her grandmother was riveting…sometimes it’s good to let the actors’ performances tell the story.
The acting in the last scene in Daredevil season 3 was 100 times better then this show. That scene with the grandmother wasn't anything I haven't seen 100 times before. This show was very generic.
@@Cole-ossalReviewsto say this Indigenous representation in mainstream media is “generic” is honestly heartbreaking. This show means so much more than surface level fight scenes. Maybe you just aren’t intended audience.
@@Jay-os3bkyea he’s just hating to hate
" some of the best acting in Marvel in a while." - Damn, man! I wasn't laughing so hard in ages. Good acting in Echo! You need to do stand ups or something :)
@@Cole-ossalReviews I don't know about "100 times," but certainly, I felt the Netflix Daredevil series was the better show overall. I just thought this episode of Echo was particularly well-performed. I think we can all agree that Echo was better than Secret Invasion lol
I guess the conversations were an attempt to show the sign language, which, for the first time felt really immersive. I mean, the words echoed in my heart 💕
Also, I can totally relate to Maya and Chula not wanting to see each other and kinda communicate through Henry. They would never be reunited if Maya had not gotten her powers or the connection with her ancestors. Maya was unconscious when brought to Chula's place. They were forced to be together and talk.
Echo and Werewolf by Night are proof that Marvel needs more dark tone elements in the near future!
But echo wasn’t good lol.
wasnt bad either@@WawaMarvel
Werewolf by night is HIGHLY UNDERRATED!!!!!!! I loved it
Echo was absolutely 🗑
@@kazukiifn7417 No, but it was freaking boring because she is not a strong enough character to be a protagonist.
The Kingpin ending seemed more like something that should have happened with a different character that has known psychological/mental powers
Maybe that's why they changed her powers from the what they are in the comic books to what they are in the MCU.
Ummm as a Phoenix host she has that and maybe she unleashes the force which will eventually come to Jean when she debuts
@@flashbrad011what makes you think she’s a phoenix host in the mcu? Just asking not trying to argue
@@Dredhedassassin In more current comics, Echo was a host for the Phoenix.
I know they're doing this because it's based on the comics, but I'd also like to know how they're going to make him earn the people's trust after he's already been in jail.
"You can't have your charachters just announce how they feel, THAT MAKES ME FEEL ANGRY" - Robot devil
I'm going to have to disagree with Heather about the Fisk healing bit and her assertion that they were trying to say that Maya's own trauma was healed in an instant and also that she might do the same with Fisk. First, I personally found both of those scenes (Maya/mother, Maya/Fisk) to be really powerful! For Maya, she's been dealing with this trauma for a long time. For people whose parents die suddenly, the worst part is them feeling like they never got to say goodbye. Maya sure as hell feels that way. Her own father kept letting her believe that her mother was just in another room at the hospital or something. Having the moment with her mother here in the present, to be able to talk to her was exactly what she needed to put her back on her path. Now Maya with Fisk. I do not think that she thought she would be able to "heal" him, but I do think that she did want to try to get him to start the process of his own healing. Fisk has NEVER attempted to deal with his own trauma, as Ryan quoted, he's a child and a monster. I think that despite everything, Maya still has love for Fisk. Family is messy, and complicated. It's possible to love and hate someone at the same time.
Agreed. Finally, and I think quite refreshingly, we have a hero who defeats the villain not with power, force or fists (or legal threats against your loved ones - as Daredevil did to put Kingpin down), but by offering healing and love. Then, it falls to the villain to choose, to repent and accept forgiveness and seek a path of redemption, or double down and reject the grace extended. In Kingpin's confused state of mind at the end, the only thing he could do was to run away.
I also agree since it helps Kingpin to become softer, cheerful, and more pragmatic again before his first defeat at Daredevil's hands. He will likely fear metahumans and magical powers after his personal experience of Maya's echo abilities and persecuting mutants, metahumans, and sorcerers. However, Kingpin will discover he is a mutant which gives him his inhumane physical strength and endurance, leading to his final defeat.
Yes, I have to disagree with this review as well. To me it was gritty and Echo's fighting reminded me of John Wick. You don't have to see blood pouring from every orifice for it to be gritty. Please stop this silly assessment of Disney+ and not being violent enough to earn the TV MA rating. We need them to tell the story and show the violent background of the characters, not earn a TV MA rating. The fighting is some of the best I've seen in some time from Marvel without it being overly CGI'd. The story was compelling and I really liked them weaving in the Choctaw heritage and history into the show. Thank you, Marvel, for giving us Echo. I look forward to more from Echo!
Exactly I don't why everyone has a problem with how she deals with him in the end, If she had defeated him physically in combat then also everyone would have been crying about it
I'm sorry, but I was suppressing laughter a couple of times watching that last fight scene. That "healing" scene and many other scenes in the series made the Kingpin appear to me to be a lot less scary than he appeared in netflix's Daredevil series. The extreme way Kingpin's simps for Maya in Echo seems kind of out of character. Still, with what he was given, the guy playing Fisk did some of the best acting on the show.
Now that we're several Marvel shows into this MCU Television era, it's so clear that five/six episodes is not enough.
Especially when the episodes are 30 minutes long
Or too many
Yeah 8-10 episodes should be the way marvel goes like with Wandavision
I really liked Echo, however I thought it ended poorly. It just seemed rushed. The choreography of the final fight was not up to the standard that the rest of the show set, and things were just wrapped up too neatly and quickly. I think if they had put more time and effort into the final act, maybe splitting it between an episode 5 and 6, it would have really nailed the landing.
Disney is more than ok with you just "liking it" Good enough. They know you'll sub no matter what they feed yas
@@xxxxMondaysxxxxand people who hate it still watch. All counts the same
Great show but yes, that ending was underwhelming.
@@xxxxMondaysxxxx Not if it makes me wait until there's real positive buzz next time. I certainly wouldn't jump at watching an Echo season 2. And if I stop watching their shows, I won't really subscribe anymore.
"What did you do? WHAT did you do!!" Half second later getting into a car outside.
II'm glad they released Echo''s episodes all at once. When they do the weekly shows, I have a tendency to forget what happens from week to week. I loved the Choctow cultural content. I got no problem with glowy hands and healing powers. I think it aligns nicely with Indigenous cultural values.
They probably just wanted to get it out of the way hahaha
@@nikhernandez8435probably. But these reviewers all cried like babies becoz it's bad for their business. It's annoying as anything.
I loved that I could binge watch the entire season
almost everyone I know waits til all the weekly episode releases are dropped and then binges them anyway, so I do not have a problem with the all at once release either. We all have different schedules, so let us watch when it suits us. (Just don't complain about spoilers if you wait 5 or 6 weeks to start watching )
Only nerdrodic fan boys are crying
Ideally her powers have not changed. She is echoing the moves and abilities of others, just from within her own family lineage. Her healing is something that she is copying from her mother.
Except they have changed, and it was done terribly to overpower a boring ass character
@@atasteofreality609in what way did the powers change to stop you being a fan of the character or are you just complaining of a changed powers even tho you never cared for the character before the show?
I agree with Colton about the ending. Honestly, I took it as he *was* healed and is now having to deal with an overwhelming flood of emotions. I think he's going to use that as his reason for running for mayor because he *now* feels like he is "good". The city ends up replacing Echo.
I commented something similar, but, you said it way better. Thanks!
Kingpin: "No prison can hold me."
DD: "You dont get to destroy who I am!"
Kingpin let his father destroy who he is. Hate is the prison he lives in. It's what he relies on. Echo released him from that hate. I believe he was desperately grasping for Echo's hands after he was healed because feeling free of guilt and hate scared the shiitake out of him. Like "Oh GOD! Where'd it go!? Give IT BACK!"
😧🔨
You shouldn’t have to figure out for yourself things the writers were supposed to let you know . I’m stunned how it’s become acceptable to play finish the script when the writing is just bad and lacking
I actually enjoyed the series it was solid show i have been getting alot of marvel fatigue myself. It was refreshing to just get a story that has nothing to do with the bigger picture but still connected in a way.
It has nothing to do with anything. It was pointless. Nothing happened nothing developed. It wasn’t refreshing it wasn’t new, it’s Hawkeye 2.0
@@joshuamontayre8225 Yes, and?
I argee
Wish they didn’t cut the budget as the show had potential. I really liked the times there was no sound to give us a glimpse into her life as a deaf person. Also really cool that some of the cast from Reservation Dogs had roles in this show.
Every time Colton gives a criticism, I remember that he liked The Trash.
How is "Echo can duplicate any physical action that she sees...able to mimic the fighting styles of others much stronger than herself."(from the Marvel website) any less magic than the hands glow that are a visual representative of her ancestors' echoing to her? The last episode was rushed, but after Loki, its the second best series that Marvel put out in the last twelve months. I hope they continue with her.
Because it's not magic but skill that comes with paying extra attention and perception, helping her learn through mimicry. We even had a glimpse of it in her training montage where she could read her opponent. Perception, perfect recall, and resourcefulness are the only things she needs to kick ass. The way she came up with an idea to make a crossbow out of a roller skate was way more impressive than any superpowers. Ancestors already echo through Ms Marvel.
The second best mcu series released in the last 12 months 😂🤣😂 well damn that’s easy to accomplish
Anyone catch the fact that Maya lost her leg due to a shard of glass, but automobile glass wouldn't break in shards for that to happen.
A radioactive spider bite wouldn’t give you powers ether. It’s comic book logic.
Yeah I didn’t like how unrealistic her glowing hands were either 😅
@TravelsTTG that's actually not true, people get their abilities because things like that activate dormant genes. So it only works for certain people.
It was definitely an over sight
@@jeffm8707you have to follow the rules of the universe they're in, glowing hands are fine, glass from 1950, not fine...
Not every viewer is familiar with Echo from the comics. Having "the glowing hands" is a way to show the viewer her using her powers in times of great need (which was mentioned earlier in the series). The majority of her fights were her bad-assery on display. For all the complaints the MCU has received (a lot of which has been earned) in recent years this show should be heralded as the beginning to a return to form. A+ show.
I like it. It shows human psychology and interactions well. Good character development. Good storytelling.
Critical Drinker hated it. Said its sucks how that DD lost to a disabled girl with a prostetic leg.
It wasn't good. I got spoiled and the story writing is pretty bad. And it's paced way too fast with shorter episodes. The choreography for the fight scenes were terribly edited.
@@janminglee3004 does critical drinker make your decisions for you. What do you actually think about.
@GothamThotSlayer "well, that's just like, your opinion , man!"
Why not make your own comments rather than tagging onto someone elses. Especially if you're not going to talk about anything I had mentioned. You don't like it cool. I did. Your telling me you didn't like doesn't make my opinion on it wrong.
The only problem I had with the show is when she got her costume she didn't have the handprint on her face, but other than that I enjoyed the show.
I can see why they chose not to use a handprint on her face as it often refers to the missing, murdered, indigenous woman movement which is the real life epidemic where indigenous women are 10 times more likely to go missing or murdered in the United States & Canada
Started watching Hawkeye again right after finishing Echo. Its even better than i remember! Glad i went back.
You are a sadist?
Liked the series as a whole, agree about glowing hands. 2 lines could fix the end. Maya saying " I'm still healing let's do this together instead" then kingpin saying "I'm sorry Maya , I have too much left to do" then he picks up the hammer and heads to the other room. Done. Cut to airplane, no family dinner.
Totally makes sense that they had to cut down late in the game. A lot of the scene transitions felt rough, like they were chopping stuff down to cram the running time into five episodes.
I feel like the cultural representation came from a good place, but it also didn’t have enough breathing room. If you want more of that, check out Rez Dogs (which actually includes five cast members from Echo).
Echo was fine. It wasn't a masterpiece but it didn't suck. Wasted DD's appearance but Echo's backstory was cool and Fisk was Fisk, extraordinary as usual.
What exactly was a waste about Daredevil?
No, it sucked!
@@aragornair6286he probably should’ve came out one more time and they should’ve had more criminal fights. Not to mention the final boss fight with Fisk should’ve been longer tbh and he should’ve been menacing
@@danielcancel2901is the show about daredevil or echo?
I loved the show. Sure it wasn’t perfect but I had great experience. And the soundtrack was amazing!!
Because your basic
I think other than I needed a 6th episode it’s proof they can do fun things… I enjoyed this show so much! I would of loved it to be longer and drop over time but I enjoyed it overall
Ability-wise, I felt like they were going more of the Spiritual-path; though I hope the glowy hands doesn't remain, and it's moreso her being intune with the land, heritage, and close distance with family; I really hope she'll still be able to channel her lineage in the sense of fighting/alignment more than anything, to keep her more grounded.
Maya using a healing power to try to win an unwinnable fight against a villain she is conflicted about was great.
They still should’ve made them fight for a bit and then she could’ve realized to use her healing powers. Kingpin didn’t even get one hit in. Kinda felt rushed
@@danielcancel2901 Maya knew she could not defeat Fisk in an open fight, so she decided to use her powers to heal and mentally defeat him.
@ryankwon8785 and all the gunmen just let her do a stance and toss her grandma and friend her powers.
@@Eireternal They were told not to kill Maya and were caught off guard with the power exchange.
Great idea, Colton. That would have been a great way to make her powers very interesting for the audience, and it kind of echoes something similar to Daredevil's senses, but different enough. Would of loved that better. Goes better with her personality much more so than healing.
…”would have loved that better.”
But I totally agree with you.
“You maniacs!” The MA here was just fine. It was warning enough to keep me from watching it with my kids. I don’t need more gruesome scenes to be satisfied with the “MA” rating, but that could just be me.
While not perfect, Echo is a step in the right direction in terms of the MCU creating stories with meaning and not being diluted with the awkward humor the MCU has been know for. The violence in “Echo” serves its purpose without being gratuitous. My main complaints were the first episode being rushed and, as a result, the roles of DareDevil and Hawkeye not given the time needed to connect to Maya’s journey. However, from episode 2 onward it was all Maya’s story, her relationship with her family, culture, and Kingpin. A great series that earns a watch.
It was just so bad , Hawkeye level bad , not obi wan bad , but it feels like you guys just hit a thumbs up to any marvel show regardless of quality
I really don’t like how they changed echos powers. Isn’t it kind of a kind of a trope to give native Americans magic powers? Maybe that’s just me. Cause I like the more unique powers that she has in the comics of being able to essentially copy physical feats from people she sees
Echo is supposed to be a disabled hero like DareDevil.
She compensates for her lack of hearing by being so visually acute, that she can observe anyone's fighting and match it, move for move (like an echo), thus anticipating any moves, giving her the advantage in hand-to-hand fighting.
her deafness became her superpower
I think they should have gave DareDevil super powers too... Why not just wreck every character.
Re: ambiguous family structure
Not speaking for all indigenous people, but my community sees everyone as a relative. Cousin, auntie, sister, etc. The lines are blurred and there are people who are not technically blood-related cousins or aunts that are called cousin or aunt because they’re in the community and like family. I felt Echo did a great job of showing this as well.
Considering the sodding off of the budget at the end? Honestly, they landed it. It was a rougher landing than I'd have liked, but this is one of those stories that isn't "made *for* me."
A lot of times we get sucked into the idea that things need to be made for the widest audience, mass appeal, etc. This showed empathy and healing as a superpower (even though the glow hands were kind of a nebulous catch-all). It showed that a person so filled with violence and hate and fear like the Kingpin *can* be forgiven, but all the forgiveness in the world from others - if not actually accepted into yourself - can't fix you.
We talk a big game about wanting a different kind of show, no skybeams, less CGI - and this was that. Maya's entire arc was to find a way to be better than the violence, and the final battle of wills was proof. She showed the mirror to Fisk, who claims to want peace but shows that he chooses violence; she claims that she's the warrior, but she shows that she chooses peace.
Her choice is more powerful, because Fisk can't practice the peace he preaches - but Maya can. She's absolutely capable of astonishing levels of violence, but she shows she is actually capable of peace.
I dunno what to tell you... this is at least on par with Hawkeye for me - and I loved Hawkeye. Echo might round out my top 5 Marvel TV productions so far. Loki & Wandavision tied for top, Ms. Marvel solid 3rd, Hawkeye and Echo tied for 4th.
I loved the show. It's a little nuts that Disney couldn't tell how good the first 3 episodes were. They could have ended ECHO with alot more cash.
It was god awful
The show was absolute garbage.
No, Secret Invasion was awful. Echo did have problems in the last two episodes. The first three episodes were ingaging enough because it taught me something about the Choctaw people. I'm familiar with the DareDevil comics, I only just read the the Echo comic after the Hawkeye series. Even though it's not the same I think this Echo stands on her own in the MCU. It's great that you have a different opinion.
Was it all bad? Story, plot direction and effects?
@@JBrown-go8ru Why? I thought the back history on the Choctaw was pretty good as it grounded the character in reality.
I didn't watch the show but i watched the first few minutes of this review just so i could see Doug....i love you Doug
I absolutely felt it was more than "fine" as Colton said. The scene with Maya's mother finally delivered the emotional wallop I was craving. Could the show have been better served with more episodes? Definitely, but creatively the team's passion is palpable. The camera work in episode 1..astounding. The fight choreo in ep. 1 and 3..amazing. The details about the culture...beautiful. We just needed a longer runtime, but I give it 8/10. PS yes Ryan the characters could have been more fleshed out, esp. Bonnie. As I said extra episodes would have worked well. That said, I really enjoyed all of the supporting characters and their acting was superb. Their emotions were easily felt just under the surface, at times even more than Maya's.
Totally agree!
100% disagree. The show was honestly not good. Terrible pointless vfx of her running and jumping on a train. Her being able to fight with daredevil with no powers, and having daredevil run away like a little girl. This is the wokest show I've ever seen. GIRL POWER!!!
@PokeBeardTCG I wouldn't say he ran away. Sometimes we don't see the reasons for every character's actions. He left for reasons which might be revealed later on Daredevil. It was fan service to include him in the show, and then Maya's story continued to be told. This is her story, it's not like Daredevil could kill her ending the series. She showed Kingpin she could hold her own and that was that.
I had very low expectations for this show. It turned out a bit better than expected, and I appreciated the family bonds and native american ancestry side of things. And Wilson Fisk was as brilliant as ever. But in the end, it was abundantly clear why reviewers got to see the first few episodes early but not the last two. And her powers... I think it would have been better if they made clear connections with Echo's abilities and those of her ancestors, where she would essentially be the "Taskmaster" of her ancestor's abilities. And yeah... the "glowy hands" thing is quickly becoming the "skybeam" of the mid 2020's.
I get the feeling that with anything coming out these days, that has hype behind it, like Echo did. The Screencrush crew gets a lot of expectations out of it and let that simmer through every episode of it, thinking it will be exactly like how they like it. But you got to take a grain of salt with it, admit where you're wrong and temper where needed. Pandering to was it good or bad is very polarizing. Let things be. Yes, it wasn't perfect but it was pretty damn good when you look at this level of production, on and off screen talent, incredible lore and amazing action in it. But i'll give them that it did look like the Marvel-house-style. That's the one bit of critique I share with them.
Other wise, a solid show. This coming from someone who had no idea what this series was going to be and had low excitement about it.
Right This show was a solid 8 but the way there talking you think it was trash. Just because something wasn’t what you expected doesn’t make it cool to taint it. Ryan expectations are too high. This is the MCU so any character that introduced I’m ok with them having powers. Why else would I be watching lol
I mean they said it’s not bad, but wasn’t great because it really wasn’t great. The ending was okay, and felt rushed and that brings down the quality of the show. The first few episodes were solid af, but episodes 4&5 were a bit underwhelming in the storytelling and the explanation of her powers. And I personally didn’t like how she treated her family especially biscuits, had him fix the truck she fucked up on his own and gave no fucks about it but her leg.
@@danielcancel2901 haha yea she is kinda if a cold hearted person but that due to how she was raised, and it did have some plot holes, but I don’t think it was necessarily rushed, if by being able to show parts, we kinda can figure out for ourselves. Then ok I’ll accept that, but it season 1, if they get a 2 or if she expanded on I’m sure we’ll get a orgin of how she got her powers. Bc unlike Ryan not wanting to know the back story I think it’s cool when they do that, it worked with Black Panther, Namor, it WORKS
@hightolerance8728 you do realize nobody cares about echo? This show was actually terrible. They bated us with daredevil once again. Just like in she hulk. This is the wokest show I've ever seen. Deaf, Indian, female, beats up everybody and even scares daredevil away😂😂😂 the ending was so ridiculously underwhelming and to see all the "women" just beat everyone up was so hard to watch
I really loved this series, but I have to admit, I was let down by the finale. I love the idea of her having her ancestor's powers, the fight scene in episode 3 where she was channelling the Lighthorseman to help her out in the fight was absolutely great, but I just thought her using her mom's power to "heal" Fisk instead of fighting him was kind of lame. I really wanted more of that channelling stuff, maybe give parts of all of her ancestors doing something awesome to really show off her powers. Maybe I was just expecting a little too much. Overall, I will still recommend it to people, I really liked almost all of it.
I didn't think of her using her healing powers on Fisk as lame. I think Maya + Fisk's story closely paralleled that of Gamorra and Thanos. Even though they weren't family, they were. And even though Gamorra was opposed to Thanos' plan, she didn't REALLY turn on him like she could have (trying to get the GotG to destroy the Soul stone,, even though she knew where it was, for example). I think Gamorra always thought there was hope for Thanos to be redeemed, even though Gamorra was unable to do that. On the other hand, the glowing hand, Maya had the ability to try to redeem Fisk. Just like Fisk and Thanos saw something useful, something worth saving, in Maya and Gamorra; now Maya sees something worth saving in Fisk - but only after learning he killed his father with a hammer. That's how Maya trying to heal Fisk makes sense for me: someone who had lost a parent, two parents really, would do all they could not to lose more family - especially an Uncle, a surrogate father, especially when Maya had written off her actual family (with whom she made amends with as well at the end). I don't know, that perspective makes the scene work for me.
I honestly read that as Light Thor seman at first😭🤣
@@Josh_Noblenah it was lame, it seemed like Fisk was not a threat at all 😂. He should’ve showed some mental fortitude on his part and he should’ve gotten some hits in, before he gets healed
16:53 so Luke Cage has a grounded powerset because his hands don't glow? That's a bit overly restrictive as a gate for being "ground level." Having the power to mimic is meta definitely not normal, even peak. Taskmaster in the MCU has a chip based powerset.
1 thing I wished they addressed in the show was to explain how Fisk survived the shot to his face in Hawkeye. Was he really augmented? Illegal, low grade super soldier serum like what was given to USAgent? Otherwise, it'd have to be near Stark Industries level of medical technology that could have saved his life and then begin the process to heal him.
I can totally buy the part where Kingpin was wearing some patch to seemingly accelerate his healing, and to implant a sign language communicator in the form of a contact lens. With tech like the arc reactor (clean, size efficient, near unlimited energy) and sentient AI / robotics (Ultron / Vision) invented in the world of the MCU, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that some "simpler" type of such tech would be available to the average consumer, or at least the wealthy (as Fisk would be).
Maybe I was hearing things but it felt like there was a technology sound when he was messing with his bandages.
The family tree was not confusing lol. It was obvious that Chula was her grandmother. And Bonnie and Biscuits were her cousins - since they all refer to Chula as Grandma. They may not be blood cousins but in a lot of cultures people refer to close family friends as “cousins”.
Overall I really liked the show. It had its weak points but nothing is perfect. It made ne care about a character and story that I had no feelings about going in. And I liked that the final “battle” between Maya and Kingpin wasn’t a battle at all. She wasn’t going to beat him with might. And that scene in his family home was poignant and beautiful and sad.
I think they are blood cousins. That's why Bonnie had the same power in the last episode
I just came here to say that Echo unexpectedly became one of my favorite MCU shows. I thought it was beautiful what was done with Kingpin. I thought Daredevil’s cameo was proper and perfected. I feel like Maya’s world felt REAL. I enjoyed my journey.
Really? This show was so generic...DD and Punisher were 100 times better in every way. Shit, even winter soldier and Falcon had awesome action! Echo sucked
They should not have used dare devil and kin pin. Let these shows live or die on there own merit. Dont take what already worked and entangle it with a hit or miss.
Fisk was tormented by his fathers death and offered himself to Echo for punishment in episode 4. Maya knew he was looking for some form of redemption
Loved the show. A little rushed at the end, but still felt more like the Netflix era of Marvel shows.
I really loved Echo! I feel like it was one of the best Marvel stories we've gotten in a looong time. I want more of this from Marvel! Also, I really loved the ending because it implied that Maya was able to heal from her pain because she understood that her power comes from her ability to persevere (as it did with her ancestors) while King Pin rejected the healing because he believes his power comes from his pain.
Stop lying..
By the end it looked like Maya connected to the previous avatars and took away Fisk's rage bending
As someone who never really delved into Daredevil, his inclusion in that first episode was incredible. He wasn’t overused, it didn’t just seem like fan service as it gave a chance to show Maya’s fighting ability as someone well trained. Kingpin was a beautifully real character and I truly enjoyed the majority of characters. But Bonnie just seemed like a damsel in distress. Her only real input to the show is her being the innocent that needs to be kept at a distance to ensure her safety and as a result, she ends up spending half her time at gunpoint or tied up.
I would have loved for her powers to be stripped down. Like each descendent giving an aspect of their skills, I loved that, but anything more than that just seems like a cheap attempt to make her more superhuman. A slow burn of powers unleashing over the episodes as she developed a connection with each previous mother.
I had very little faith in this show and I was really pleasantly surprised but the last couple of episodes suffer and that’s a shame.
I normally don’t comment on reviews or any videos but I will make this an exception. I loved the first three episodes. I was actually moved to tears by some of the scenes. This program had the makings of greatness. Perhaps a spinoff of those heroes from the First Nations people. Asa you and many others have said it suffered from lack of budget and no ability to put on film 3D characters except Maya. Her character did not completely triumph but instead held off the inevitable “I will get you Dorothy and your little dog too” moment. We had no resolution at all in fact. The BBQ ending was a cheap version of the Brady Bunch end of episode. It disappointed me in that way. It sounds to me like Kevin Feige can be very dictatorial and thats okay but to sell what could have been a great show short is an interesting take. I hope he doesn’t do that again. Perhaps money could have been found through First Nations Organisations to give her the story she deserved with the ending we deserved. Just my take on it
That scene in the last episode between her mum and maya was the highlight for me... So beautiful
@@thestunner31615right like what are you talking about yes there was plot holes but for the most every episode was good
@hightolerance8728 no it wasn't.
personally I really liked the show, I know is not gonna be for everyone and it has it's flaws, but I was really hooked on maya's and I really wanted her to get over her trauma. And btw is nice to see you guys actually supporting the mcu and wanting it to improve instead of trash talking like many others
Echo was a very interesting and dynamic character in Hawkeye. So it's surprising she becomes so boring in her own show. The plot was so convoluted I couldn't figure out what the heck she was trying to do. Become a Queenpin? Destroy Fisk's empire? Return to her childhood home to shoot at swingsets? I was expecting so much better.
I would have loved a gritty fight at the end, in addition to the "hands" finale..
I enjoyed it, and I don't mind them changing the Echo character, they already have Taskmaster, and since I never followed the Echo character in the comics I truly have to issue with this. I would have liked her final fight with Fisk to have been much more violent though. At least they set him up for his role in Daredevil with the end credits scene
The challenge of critiquing a show is that we need to know what the creators intend and thus lean more on our expectations. It is not our story, and it sounds like, with budget cuts, it wasn't the creator's full story either. I personally loved it. My family modestly studied Indigenous culture this summer. Our country's indigenous cultures are diverse, and I'd like to hear their perspective on the story. I know some indigenous cultures view time differently, as you and I might. They see it more as a continuous flow rather than a linear one. Like what happened a year ago is felt today and visa versa (hard to conceptualize and explain), I wonder if they incorporated that idea into Maya's connection with the ancestors, which is fantastic. I also know the preservation of language is HUGE, and I applaud them for including that in the series. We must respectfully view this through the cultural lens it was intended before entirely judging the show. Again, I loved it. It's in my top tier of Marvel shows :)
Colton is the perfect example of what being “chronically online” gets you.
When does Kingpin really lose? Its part of what I hate about him in DD. He might take a beating or whatever, because we need that as viewers. But he doesn’t ever LOSE. She shot him in the face and he lives. LOL
Echo was cool. I think we definitely needed that 6th episode and I wonder if they where trying to make Echo and Kahhori as one character instead of having both of them in live action🤔
Disney Marvel can't do TV . They need to stay tf away from Daredevil and Kingpin so as to not further ruin them
The magical powers argument could be solved, if she could only use them if she's on her land. Around her people. If she's in New York, all powers are out the window...
Echo was excellent - the reason people are hating or being negative is because you needed to watch it fully and engage with the screen. It was an excellent origin story and everything portrayed and scripted was for a reason...a masterpiece - thank you Marvel for bringing a different: culture, civilization and new level with another character with disabilities that doesn't hold them back 👍🏻🎉
I think the TV-MA was just a testing to see how audiences will respond to Disney's full adaptation of Daredevil. If they can get a few things right with a lesser-known character like Echo with a TV-MA rating, then they can successfully incorporate that with a few more things for Daredevil Born Again which needs to be a hit. According to reports, when the original screentests for Born Again were scrapped and Marvel hired traditional TV schedulers, it was also added that the new showrunners were constantly consuming Daredevil content including the original Netflix series. So, having bits and pieces of Echo in TV-MA is a safe bet for testing the waters to see what audiences like.
I agree. MAYA: Most Advanced, Yet Acceptable.
Maya's comic book abilities to copy what she sees is not only cool, but also a more interesting storytelling element to show how her hearing disability lead to her vision super ability. Similar to how daredevil is blind but can "see" better than the average person using his hearing.
I also had no idea who taskmaster was, so if that's the reason they changed Maya's powers then that's a little disappointing.
Definitely felt rushed but I feel like it was a soft launch for their Adult geared content where they can now dial it up knowing people are actually wanting to watch this mature content over the "safe Disney" content they've been producing.
I think it's why they scrapped daredevil they know they would alienate the entire fan base who enjoyed the more mature tone that the Netflix series of daredevil produced. That series was peeeerfect. Now that they know people can handle it. There was no backlash. And that kids weren't traumatized. They will allow the more mature crowd enjoy the comic book version style of storyline. More grown up conversations and situations thst aren't constantly broken into by badly timed jokes...
I have SOME hope. But I am prepared for the worst
I would have preferred a grounded, no mystic/superpower show. But, I think the reason she got some superpower is because Fisk either already has some super soldier serum, or will get some in the future. Then in the eventual team up, it will be all superpowered people - plus Kate Bishop with physics defying trick arrows - going up against a superpowered villain.
Chaske Spencer (Black Crow) was criminally underutilized. I would have loved to see how he fit into the Fisk criminal organization. Something simple like how Maya’s father wearing a tracksuit was a “show and not tell”.
Chaske Spencer was a standout actor for me and the way he smoothly linked his dialogue and acting with his signing was perfect.
Tuesday was the traditional day when DVD releases occured not so long ago
Perhaps I'm giving Marvel too much credit here but I think it was a clever homage
Given your "Blockbuster"/quasi Best Buy motif figured you'd pick up on that
At any rate great content per usual
Yeah, I was all good with it. Got to watch 1 or two episodes a day.
19:01 I thought in the last flashback Maya would have tried to heal her mother as she had seen her do to the bird before. And not achieving on doing that would cause her grieve until she reunites with her ancestry.
Hell no, Echo was perfect. Followed comic, set backstory casually and easy for new fans, they RESPECTED the Native American history and got their feedback…. It is and was what Marvel has done right for 15 years. Give me hope for future projects.
My favorite part of episode 5 was when Maya pulled that Assassin's Creed move of walking with a few NPC's around her as cover
Do you know why i really loved this series? Women power. Family. Ancestors are important. Power of love. Also one of the rare shows/movies that passes the Bechdel test. Finally we got a great story about women in the world and how important are they for our world. I’m really not bothered by “glowy hands”. I know we are watching a comic book story and we want it to be as close to the comics as possible, but we also need new stories with powerful female characters. We have a grounded powerful dark character in Daredevil. Echo can be different and more modern. We need it for the times we are living in. I think Marvel is going in the right direction.
All the reasons Marvel is going to shit!!
Yeah, Marvel hasn't had a Girl Boss since Captain Marvel, the Marvels, Secret Invasion, Eternals, Hawkeye, WandaVision, Dr. Strange's MOM, Agent Carter, Runaways, Cloak and Dagger, Helstrom, Jessica Jones, Shang-Chi, or Black Widow. Good to see they're changing it up.
@@GreatUSTreasureHunt so sad for you. Now compare that number with male stars. Then divide them by 2. And the number is still double the female stars. I really feel your struggle.
@@planinsek32 The true struggle was your first ridiculous post, as if Marvel hasn't been going in this direction for years.
@@GreatUSTreasureHunt I know. That’s why i hope you will survive this. You can do it. I believe in you.
The broken neck from the first mission. Shang Chi and Maya on the same team would be epic. Her having a connection to her ancestors was alright for me. It reminded me of how Wakandan powers work. It's still an echo; she's echoing her ancestors.
Ryan is totally wrong in saying Marvel needed to make some more episodes showing what has happened in the past, versus some explanation dialog. Dialog takes 30 seconds. To explain by video you are talking more episode, which was the problem with some of the Marvel episodes when they were 13 episodes. Some of those were filler.
Knowing that the budget had been cut explains a lot about the last couple of episodes. This series could have definitely used another episode and a half.
I wish that they stayed truer to Maya’s comic book powers but I understand that there’s already a mimic (Taskmaster) in the universe and that redundancy isn’t something that Marvel is looking to add in terms of powers.
I disagree with your take on the “healing hands” scene with Maya and Fisk. Maya still looks at Fisk like a father figure, she has a lot of love for him regardless of how he manipulated her into becoming an assassin, killing him once turned her super dark and isolated, after connecting with her family and ancestors, she wasn’t that person anymore and couldn’t bring herself to kill him a 2nd time. She chose to give him what her family gave her, but, unlike her, he’s never had a loving family before, he won’t know what it is or how to accept it. I think this will make him double down and become even more ruthless, but Maya will remain to be a weakness of his.
Counterpoint: The powers Echo has in this story make far more sense - and honor the NA storytelling - better than the inexplicable comic stories of mimicry. Understand that some who read those books may say, “What?” But it’s not bad storytelling. Maybe a bit rushed, for reasons you have covered, but the story was fine with these powers.
The problem I have with Echo is that Maya never asked WHY. Why did Kingpin have her father killed? Avenging her father's murder is the basis for the whole story so this is sort of important. Or did I miss a plot point?
The biggest issue was the time spent following people travelling with no purpose. This movie was 15% motorcycle shots. It focused more on the artsy sequences than it did telling a compelling story or building to a satisfying sequence of events. It felt like a really long end credits scene.
I respectfully disagree. The show was not good. The story was incoherent. The characters showed little to no emotion. The 'bad guys' were impotent because Maya's plot armor was so incredibly thick. At any of a hundred or more instances a single bullet from a bad guy not waiting his turn to be pummelled could have ended her. In fact if you rewatch the fight scenes you can see them actually lining up her shot for her as if they wanted to die.
There were some good points. The first big fight scene was a great idea in principle. Showing the fight from the deaf perspective was inspired. The grandma and grandpa were excellent characters excellently acted. Vincent D was absolutely incredible, as always. Unfortunately disney has zero respect for the character. They've taken a guy who beheaded a guy with a car door and turned him into a whimpering fool with zero focus. Vincent deserves better.
I even liked the idea of Maya drawing on the abilities of her ancestors, but it was too rushed and no explanation was given. Either she is possessed by her ancestors who take over her body or she would need to be counciled by them on how to use said powers.
My final thought is this...
Why are people hailing her as a hero or even an anti-hero. She is a villain. As a child she tortured and killed animals. That's serial killer stuff. That was long before she met Fisk. He merely cultivated the psychopath he saw in her.
Shecis a villain. She is worse than Negan. At least there was a series of events that led to Negan turning evil. She was a sociopath from the start.
I interpreted they releasing all the episodes at once as a nod to the Netflix shows
Great video as always. Here is my thoughts on Echo (that nobody asked for):
I actually liked the show, especially the action scenes, native context, sound design, cinematography and general acting. The recap in the first ep was fine to me, as well the ancestors flashbacks.
There is some bad decisions story wise, maybe because of rewriting due to that shortening Heather mentioned. For exemple, Maya's plan of taking a crime impire never felt credible and its only concrete move (blowing up a deposit) doesn't make any sense, specially with she believing Kingpin was dead.
The ASL eye tech was smart, and should be present from the start, along with more mute scenes from Maya's POV. In the other hand, they could have used her prosthetic leg better, incorporating it in her fights, for exemple.
I found the setting up of the final battle was rushed and bad written. Kingpin accidentally meeting Maya's grandma? Maya borrowing powers (that she barely knows how to use) to her family? A dozen henchmen waiting (for what?) in vans? And a 20sec chopped up fight scene? Where are those beatiful stunts and choreography of the first and third episodes?
About her powers, I think it's ok to depart from the mimmick due to similarity with Taskmaster, but I'm done with another character with a vague set of powers that can accomplish anything the writers decide at a given moment. But, the healing power was a pretty good one, somewhat unique and very related to native values.
Anyway, the final fight could be: Her friends outsmarts the majority of the henchmen outside; Maya punches down the remaining ones, but is easily defeated by Fisk, who holds her in a fatal bodylock; she, then has the ancestral vision stuff and almost in a trance make the healing seal on his forehead, making him collapse emotionally and run away from her.
I also thought that her mom would wake up and heal Maya enough to keep her alive before her own death. I was disappointed when that didn't take place. Maya's leg was severely cut. How did she survive that and who found her? I had an open compound fracture in my lower leg due to losing control of my motorcycle on a back road (hit gravel) and I had plenty of blood loss before I was discovered to the point that I would not have made it had I been there much longer. This specific scene just felt weird and unfinished.
I really enjoyed it, I really liked how they intertwined it with the What If Kahhori episode and gave Echo some unique powers. The action was gd, acting was gd, n storyline was decent, Marvel has done much worse than Echo recently, this was solid imo
The action was not that good whatsoever. It was the most generic fight scenes I've ever seen. The Punisher was 100 times more brutal than this show. Plus the ending fight was so lame! YES! WOMAN POWER! 🙄. Not even close to being as good as DD or Punisher.
How was the Kahorri episode intertwined? The fact that you think it was is the problem with this show. The Choctaw are a completely different nation. They just did the same thing they did with What If but with a different native girl character.
Action was horrible, acting was horrible(kingpin excluded). Tv-ma rating wasn’t earned. Show was trash.
@joshuamontayre8225 the show is good hater
@@Cademan2005 no it’s not. I don’t hate, that’s why I watched it before judging. My wife quit watching after the second episode. I watched hoping it would get good but it doesn’t. Acting bad, action bad, story almost none existent. Heart? Surface level. I’m sorry did she go toe to toe with daredevil and walk away? she didn’t learn anything, no character growth. Just the last episode forcing it. Sorry but I’ve seen better writing and character arcs on 90’s early morning cartoons. People like you are the reason shows suck and have no personality. Even Kevin feige said this show was unreleasable. Tv-ma? Where? I didn’t see it.
I think we can all nitpick anything to death. We all wanted better storytelling, less multi-threaded stories that mostly existed to set up upcoming story arcs, and less formula. And Echo delivered on all three. I felt like the one drop was great, just like the Netflix days and not coming across like bilking subscription money or perpetually releasing content (Talk about no time to digest). The cultural immersion was a new high, which fed directly into serving the story and Maya's growth arc. She and Kingpin, if I recall correctly, never traded a blow in the whole series. They were truly a family dynamic, largely contained and controlled by Kingpin as we were constantly reminded of by all the violence following him and everyone else he comes into contact with. They really do care about each other. And in the end, she tried to conquer the villain Kingpin by removing his pain, not his teeth--which would have been a HUGE waste. That is fucking beautiful, and shows Maya's growth from cold-blooded mercenary to opening herself up to care for others again. It was fantastic! I don’t recall an origin story this strong from Marvel since the beginning, when there weren't any threads to weave in. So I really enjoyed it, a lot. It could have been better. Yeah, so could a lot of things. Too bad that the Disney+ machine ground up an episode. But I did feel like this was not the end of the old format as much as a hybrid of the new story-driven and old formulaic at once. I am now fully re-engaged in the MCU... exactly the opposite that I felt after Secret Invasion, when I was ready to walk away from the MCU.
My man you worded this perfectly, this show has absolutely resparked my interest in MCU. I’m not sure what everyone seem so torn about? Everything people have been asking for, Echo delivered. Still connected to the whole universe but telling its own story. Yes there were a few plot holes. I see people sayin “oh she hit KingPin wit the Echo an he just got mad and drove away.” Sometimes people gotta use there BRAINS! And interpret things themselves . He was literally screaming at her WHAT did you do! He’s actually does care for Maya and so does she. So although He was about to kill Bonnie and Chula, After Maya healed Him, it was Harder for him to go through with it. This show was up there with Loki for me. And although Marvel prob dropped all episodes bc they just wanted to be done with it. This was is better, feels more like a movie and seamless. That weekly shit is strictly for money and that ass.
They should have had Kingpin have a win by eliminating one of Mayas family members at some point in the season showing that he has the power to take them away like he did with her father in the past. That way it doesn’t feel like kingpin just takes Ls every season and there are consequences to rejecting him.