How To Expose SLOG3 With The Sony a7S III - Must Watch Tips
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2021
- In this video I show you how to master exposing SLOG3 on the Sony a7S III and other Sony 10bit cameras. Do you still need to over expose to avoid noise or should you under expose to protect highlights? How about the correct IRE for good skin tones? All this answered plus my essential tips for getting the most out of SLOG3.
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2 Questions:
1. You say that exposing skintones between 50-60 IRE is best (I agree), but what does that mean for middle gray? How is your skin compared to middle gray? (brighter, similar in luminance?).
I also believe that exposing middle gray at 50% (so a little bit over what the manual says - 41 IRE I believe) which would place skintones at 55-60 (since I did find through some tests that the skintones I've measured are about 5-10 IRE brighter than middle gray - is your skin the same?)
2. I'll surely be testing this myself, but what about the IRE for those highlights and clipping areas. With some Linear profiles you could definitely go with the default Zebra profile of 100+ since you can recover things that are blown out and they magically appear on the top side of your waveform when you bring down exposure in post (I believe the clipping is actually at 107). But S-Log 3 is rated at 94 max I believe. So what does that mean for the zebra? Set it at 94+ ? 95+ or stick with the 100 default option? is 95 then pure white (clipped)? I'm always working with zebras, and since you have 2 custom profiles, It would be nice to set one for those clouds or snow and expose until you just see a tiny-tiny spot of clipping so that you truly get the max out of this camera.
Should I use my exposure compensation wheel to +1.0-2.0 for slog3 in order to easily be overexposing? Or is that not a good recommended method for exposing in slog3??
Thanks for sharing these tests with us!
i'm here for every slog3 video you make!! thank you bro
I've literally been looking for a video answering these exact questions for weeks after getting my A7siii. Thank you!
Definitely useful! Thanks Harv
I’m glad someone is out here showing how to expose LOG. It gets too much unnecessary hate. I love LOG.
Me too!
This is some high quality content right here!
Just what I was looking for. Thanks!
I like this video. Fun and maa as n’y knowledge! It’s really helpful! Thank you so much 😊
You are a fantastic teacher and explain things so clearly. thanks a bunch!
Glad I could help!
Thanks for the info, very helpful!
Good job Harv! This is a really interesting cameras which haven't stopped suprising yet. Can't wait to see what the A7IV will be.
9 months later, I’m here again 😁 Just got my hands on a A7IV over the weekend so had to brush up on the slog3 knowledge
Love your content brother. New sub
Good Sony A7siii Slog3 info. Thanks.
Thanks, great video! LOG + LUTs make for a lot of variation to improve or kill your footage.
Excellent info. Subbed.
Really useful info... thank you. Amazing how clean that sensor is and nice not to have to ETTR any more!
Thanks Paul 😁
Awesome tips thanks for sharing. New sub.
Great video. I actually found a very good real world use for the Lower Extended ISO up to 1 stop lower, as the DR loss here is very minimal. Having this range 320-640 is very useful when you are shooting at golden hour and you are slowly losing light in your scene. Like many people, I use a variable ND, but these are usually 1-5 stops, and there's a certain point where you need that 0-1 stop variation (since with the ND at minimum it's too dark and without the ND it's too bright). So you start your shoot at ND 3 stops, then after 20 mins you gradually go to ND 2, then eventually ND 1 and then you just get rid of the ND and set your ISO at 320, going up towards 640 and even 1-2 stops higher as the day goes on since there's minimal loss in DR there too, and the image is clean.
Hey thanks for this explaination, what is the native ISO when you shoot Proress Raw with ninja 5?
Awesome video! If you were to use zebras to expose, how would you do it?
Great tips for shooting in Slog3. I too have found that overexposing (ETTR) can often damage the highlights, especially noticeable if you are outside and want to see detail in the sky, so I have tended to stick to being exposed correctly. One question, when you check the IRE for skin tones, are you looking at the native value, or with a viewing LUT enabled on the monitor? If you enable a viewing LUT on the Ninja V (for example), the waveform is indicative of the LUT-enabled image, not the native SLOG3. So when you say 50-60 IRE are you referring to the native SLOG3 image? Thank you.
Thanks Harv, really clear video without pointless intros etc.
Also, LOVE that you compose and play all your own music. Does this mean we're not gonna get endless annoying promotions for Soundstripe, Artlist etc? 🤭
Ha ha, indeed it does! No plans to use any stock music site, I'll just keep wring my own 😊
Well he has an intro. And a quite long one. But still great content, much appreciated
Thanks for the great video. Do you have a recommendation to monitoring for best skin tones? I'm guessing an external monitor is the way forward? Is it possible with just the camera?
Thanks
Cheers for this
Did you ever get round to looking at those low ISO settings for sLog3? Thanks!
Great video, at the 5:37 min mark and I'm sold (wow!) ... even with a Sigma lens and not Sony's master series lens.
Awesome thanks. Picking my cam up today after ordering in early November
Woo new gear day is the best, you’re going absolutely love it!
great advice Harv..thanks :)
Glad it was a help 👍🏻
Hiiii mannn! Good video and good tips. But i have a question. How can it be that when you make the exposure test and you underexpose the shadows in the waveform spike upper than the overexpose way??? i am completly freakin out!!
Thank uuu so much!
thanks a lot, I couldn't figure out why my s-log looked so noisy above 640 iso!
You’re welcome, have you tried the higher native iso of 12800? It’s pretty amazing!
Very good tests and thanks for testing the extended ISO values under 640. I've been so afraid of using them for fear of color shifting and dynamic range loss. But every time I used them I noticed no adverse results which are congruent with your findings. Also, I'm glad you point out the impact of ETTR on contrast. I was noticing this in my own footage and did not know what was happening. So I would always pull the contrast back in Davinci which is strange because most of the time we add contrast to an image lol.
The balanced exposure looks really nice in my opinion and looks less "video" IMO. There is definitely better highlight roll-off when not ETTR. I've noticed that even while exposing with a waveform with my Smallhd focus 7 that you can observe how much the highlights become compressed the more you ETTR even without coming close to clipping. I even think the underexposed shots look good too. It's amazing just how much the personality of Slog 3 changes depending on how you expose it. Not sure if that is a good thing tho lol. Guess it depends on what you are going for. But it also makes it easier to screw up depending on what you are going for lol. But it's a heck of a lot more forgiving than it used to be in prior camera bodies. Great video man. Easily the best I've seen!
Thank you.
Hi Harv, what do you think about exposing in Slog3 for Green Screen? (with a Sony A7S3). I have to over exposing like in an high contrast situation? Thanks for answer!
Hey, I massevely shooting in africa were the are darker than caucasian. Can't find any proper well explained skin tones for black skin. Do you have a recommadation for IRE settings for skin tone on black skin? Also do it change in low light environnement ? Thanks man, great tips here
Hello , Could I ask you? can we shoot s-log 3 under iso 640 in day light ?
I have a question, what if you're shooting a sunset or sunrise? What should I do to expose correctly in Slog3?
So then would it stand to reason that when filming weddings, specifically the lowlight portion, like speeches and dances, that you can simply set your zebras to between 55 and 60? If you do have the zebras on your subject faces, you would know that your exposure is good in slog 3 correct?
What about exposing an fx30 with a 1.4 lens and its lower native ISO’s? With the vibe EI, how do you decide where to adjust the bracketing compensation?
Awesome video Harv! Thanks so much. I recently got my Sony A7S III and have been having difficulty with noise in the shadows. Could you please tell me what settings you have set on your sony? Especially things like picture profile and whether noise reduction is turned on? Thanks so much for all your knowledge!
Many thanks and glad I could be of help! To answer your first question, yes! I will do this in an upcoming video for sure. As for the noise reduction, unfortunately as of now you can’t change the video NR settings (it’s always on max 😂). Have you looked into the dual native isos? Otherwise I’d say just try exposing a little brighter 👍🏻
How do you work out the IRE of what you are shooting in camera? For example a face/subject?
Really the only way to do this with any kind of accuracy would be to use zebras (assuming not using an external monitor), see my zebras guide ruclips.net/video/5F0is5Ad_Hg/видео.html I hope this helps 👍🏻
Fantastic it's really good to doublecheck what I'm doing against somebody that knows so much more than me, well done thank you so much keep the great content coming and keep safe
Thanks as always Neil 👍🏻
Hey Harv, do you have any recommendations for figuring out your exposure if you don’t have an external monitor with a waveform?
Use zebras.
what is usable iso range to get good image? As I have now in my lumix s1 640-1250 and 4000-5000, all behind is noisy in vlog. how does is look in A7s3?
Can you not fix the high contrast in post when overexposed? Or do you loose something when doing so? My thoughts: In a run and gun situation exposing slightly bellow clipping point might save tons of noisy image and prevent reaching noisy floor, especially indoors without control over the light
Very useful tips !
I wonder if you can make a video about how to choose a mic 🎤 for different lenses
Many thanks 🙏🏻 what do you mean about choosing mics for lenses?
Hey! Great video thanks! Can you confirm that there is no noise reduction applied to those nighttime scenes? Thanks!
Many thanks! Nope, no NR 👍🏻
Very useful video, thank a lot! I'm currently trying to find the balance of exposing for and grading with Phantom ARRI LUT (from Joel Famularo), he recommends to not overexpose (keep at +0.0) but I found that the image is too dark and I would have to bring up shadows when filming outside a little bit too much and exposure too... it's especially challenging when filming 200 fps outside with a shutter of 1/400 and iso of 12800. Your video helps to understand everything a little bit better and I'm gonna continue practicing.
I actually still prefer to slightly over expose for the phantom luts too. Glad I could help 👍🏻
I really appreciate that you explained the tradeoff with ETTR. And you showed us why/when you might want to under expose.
You shot the night clips in S-Log3? Wow, thats's wild. Haven't had the A7siii in my hands yet, but coming from the A7iii, that level of cleanness seems like straight up magic haha
that's what 10bit will do
Hi Harv. I got curious about the extended low ISOs on the A7S III based on watching your video. After testing and monitoring the waveform on the Ninja V, while recording in SLog3, I noticed at ISO 160 highlight clipping would occur at about 76% IRE. Each 1/3 stop increase in ISO would increase the highlight clipping threshold by about 3%.
Example:
160 ISO clips at 76% IRE
200 ISO clipped at 79% IRE
250 ISO clipped at 82% IRE
ISO 320 clipped at 85% IRE
ISO400 clipped at 88% IRE
ISO 500 clipped at 91% IRE
ISO 640 clipped at about 93% IRE.
From what I understand, SLog3 is supposed to clip highlights at about 93% IRE, so it can be inferred that ISO 640 offers the highest dynamic range in so far as preserving highlights is concerned. Would like to hear your thoughts on this or if you can replicate these results
Yeah, did some outside test shots with slog3 iso 160 and the hl-rolloff was nonexistent…cine4 or s-cinetone did much better
1:32 was very well done. I like that. Don’t do it, every time though lol
hey harv,
would you suggest shooting in slog 2 for low light scenes?
also, lets say, your exposure was at 2.0 at 6400 iso, but over 2 at 12,000 iso
would you just increase the shutter so your not overexposing too much at 12,000 iso?
I heard iso after like 3200 gets really noisy, but what if 12,000 is too bright even at night
Hmm I’ve not tried slog2 for low light but I’d imagine it would be better. As for your other question, I would rather adjust my aperture or even use an nd filter (what an odd concept 😂). I’d say it only gets noisy at around iso 8000 so I’d say if you have to go over 6400, make the jump to 12800 👍🏻
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff wise words harv.. wise words
What about exposing for non-faces....busy backgrounds, landscapes etc.
I apologize if this is an elementary question, but it's something I've been wrestling with for some time. There's a ton of info out there on exposing S-Log 3 based on a few tools, including: ETTR, the controversial expose to 1.7 using multi meter, using zebras set to 55+/- for skin tones or 94+/- to avoid blowing out highlights, and using false colors or middle grey card to ensure skin tones are exposed properly.
I get all of this when shooting in daylight or well lit scenes (I for one rely on zebras or false color), but I can't wrap my head around how you would "properly" expose a scene using these methods, with or without a human subject in lowlight or night scenes. i.e living room scene at night, with subject lit only by a lamp and the distant glow of a television, or on the street at night with subject or scene lit only by street light, nearby signage etc.
Following the standard rules/tools above, exposing the skin tones or even a middle gray card in these settings with zebras set to 55 +/- for examples would expose the rest of the scene in a way that is to bright and inaccurate..?
Then, for night time/low lit scenes without a human subject, how do properly expose these with S-Log 3? I sometimes use zebras at 94+ and aim to not blow out the light source (such as the lamp, or street lights from the examples above) But is this accurate?
i am struggling with this too.
When i get my highlights where i want them, MM is at -2/-1.7.
Not sure how does that translate into noise and how do i work with this corectly.
A7iv at 3200 iso/ 16-35 f2.8.
Do i just keep underexposing it? Picture wide shot. 16mm, street with one streetlamp. Steps approaching, walking person enters scene. Possibly getting robbed soon on his way. You want it to be dark, only siluet of person is visible.
How do you correctly expose this in slog3??
1:36 Im assuming these were all exposure corrected in post? Otherwise they all look properly exposed to me. How much over and under?
Yes indeed, there’s a about a stop difference between them 👍🏻
Thanks Harv. So are you saying to ignore the histogram when shooting video on the A7s III? How do you know if its any good if you don't have a monutor with waveform? Just going by eye?
meant ignore the +1 +2 metering. the histogram still helpful to make sure not too much is on the left
is SLOG 3 good for bright situations or more preferred for night and overcast?
It really comes down to preference, I use it almost all the time but many people prefer not to use it for low light situations. There are some nice nighttime video clips shot in slog3 in my recent sigma 35mm review ruclips.net/video/pV-DoU6b4zQ/видео.html 👍🏻
whats ire? first time hearing about that
Basically % of your exposure 👍🏻
How do you correct overexposed and underexposed Slog footage? Before or after the LUT/Color Space Transform? And how? With curves? Or with primarys? I am scared to do things wrong there, since the logcurve is a bit more special and cause unrealistic looking footage when correcting wrong.
I always do this as the first adjustment in the chain, you can just use colour wheels etc
@@HarvVideoAudioStuffBut doesn't that interfere with the slog curve? So the conversion after a changed log clip would simply have to be mathematically wrong, wouldn't it? Because the gamma curve is different depending on how the clip was exposed and by changing the primarys, this is not converted to the correct curve for the LUT, is it? Thank you for your answer! I find the topic very exciting.
FWIW, I tested these principles on my 8 bit A7C and it works fine.
what the setting or preset you use ? SLOG 2 or 3 ?
@@anantamahaputra9788 slog3
how do you measure to see and set IRE?
Waveforms on an external monitor is the best way imo 👍🏻
if we are not supposed to use the camera meter to expose slog3 then how do propose to do that?? I tried to use the gamma assist but sometimes it overexposes a lot more if we expose till the meter says +2.0 and it becomes a pain to balance the exposure in post. I think +1.7 is a good balance for slog3.. but still looking for a better solution..
Well waveforms are probably the best option in my opinion, how can you trust a meter that doesn’t understand log curves? That meter is designed for photography purposes, not video and certainly not to interpret slog3. Waveforms are the best option 👈🏻😄
What Zebras should i set my camera to?
93 to protect highlights. Although sometimes blowing out highlights will be necessary in order to properly expose skin tones.
how do I measure what IRE something is at when I'm shooting?
Use Std. Range Zebras w/ Gamma Display Assist OFF. Set the Zebra Range to the IRE you're targeting ± 2-5 for how precise you need to be.
So for example if aperture is lowest (2.8 on my 12-24gm lens), shutter is 60 (30fps), and iso is 640 (recommended for a7siii), and the meter is showing 0 or negative number, which of the 3 above to I put higher to increase light? I don’t want to touch aperture, so should I up the iso? Not shutter speed? Or use the overexposed compensation wheel? Please help!
(^ to get to 1.7-2 overexposure)
Yes I’d use iso for sure, don’t be afraid to use it with the a7s3. That what it’s for 😄 if I ever need to go higher than 3200 I
actually prefer to push it up to the higher native iso of 12800 and tweak the aperture a little. Footage is super clean at 12800 👍🏻
Harv Video/Audio Stuff thank you so much it works just tested that :)! do you ever experience color banding in the floors/walls when using slog3? For some reason I am getting perfect exposure now, but with 4K 30fps XAVC S 10bit 4:2:2 I am getting some color banding in the walls/floors …. Any idea how I can fix this while recording?
I'm gonna shoot outdoor street scene just following the car and the only light would be street lamp. It looks ok in the camera (with rec709) but metering is about -0.3 and I cannot bring it up any more. Is that ok for the night scene like that? I'm after a darker look so I don't mind that. I'm just worried wether the image will look shit due to noise etc...
Hmm it’s hard to say without seeing the image (I can’t stand the exposure meter readings!) but you could always try boosting just the highlights and applying something like neat video to clean things up 👍🏻
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff yeah I guess i dont have a choice anyway.
What is 50/60 IRE ?
% 👍🏻
WOULD YOU still underexpose at 50 ire for black skin tones ?
Yep, 45-55 is about right 👍🏻
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff thank you sensei you are awsum.
Please setting to vloging exposure. I make always to dark my face sometimes
I’m not sure I can! I’d say the answer is in my recent zebra guide though ruclips.net/video/5F0is5Ad_Hg/видео.html
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff
better explain on point only. how about setting vlogging afternoon?.
how about setting night vlogging?.
how is the setting in the studio?.
how about cinematic setting?.
I’m not saying I don’t want to help, I’m saying there’s no ‘set and forget’ setting for any situation. Watch my zebras guide and set your zebras accordingly, that way you’ll have a repeatable method
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff when vlogging with an urgent situation is not possible if you keep repeating the settings. slog3 can only be consistent at +1.7
The exposure meter is not reliable as it is not designed for slog3. Try setting your zebras to standard plus range, 58% +3 and make sure the zebras are always on the brighter part of you face. Now that’s repeatable
those night shots we're slog3 at 12,800?
Yep 👍🏻
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff wow okay, would you say that I can shoot sLog3 in a club setting then? dark with minimal/random lighting? Thanks!
Are you using an a7s3? If so then definitely yes! 12800 is the higher native iso so the image becomes super clean as soon as you get there 👍🏻
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff alright I’m gonna give it go!
What is IRE?
What Is IRE?
ruclips.net/video/DuYbj0i1mKI/видео.html
With Sony A7S3: Hello never made a good picture with s-log 3 in situations low light extremely too much noise. Yes I overexposed 1,7 stop.
Same with s-log2 overexposed 1,7 stops much noise but less noise. Nog good. Als with my Sony FS7 (changed now for the A7S3) too ,much noise with s-log3.
But with cinetone it's very good as good as NO NOISE!!! How is it possible???
What is IRE
ruclips.net/video/DuYbj0i1mKI/видео.html&feature=sharea
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🔥🔥🔥
Actually in just 5:46 were you said the picture is fully clean! it aapears to me that there is some noise in the black sky! i am sorry, but i really try to understand how exactly to correct this issue
I’d say this is more likely to be banding from RUclips compression as I had no noise at the time of grading. However if it’s just a touch of noise you could try a touch of Neat Video 👍🏻
i think this video serves individuals who already understand technicalities in cameras... i find that you talked about how to expose and showed us your already exposed scenarios but you failed to demonstrate how to expose a particular scene/shot with given parameters in a paricular space
Thanks to school I hate logorythm
.. why don't you need to expose SLOG3 to the right anymore?