Ice Knife used to be a sick spell on my Sorcerer back when my DM ruled it twinnable, as it’s basically a low cost cluster bomb against minions. Then Sage Advice ruled it illegal despite the spell only targetting one creature, so I moved on to twinning Dragon’s Breath onto familiars to blast mooks that way, and lo and behold Sage Advice ruled THAT illegal despite it also targetting only one creature. It’s like WotC just doesn’t want Sorcerers to have any toys.
Twinned Spell says “When you cast a spell that targets only one creature...” and both Ice Knife and Dragon’s Breath only target one creature. Either they errata the ability, or they should just rule the way it is written.
@@M0ebius I agree the verbage doesn't make sense in the phb/errata for twinned. But the way I see it, if the spell has any potiental to harm/target more than 1 creature at the level it's casted, you can't twin it. So dragons breath doesn't work since it's AoE, also rng rolls like chaos bolt that could hit a 2nd a creature don't work either. I think they errata'ed it since it was limiting design space for future spells the way they originally wrote twinned spell. Basically "we want to make these cool spells going forward but it would be OP with twinned spell, so we have to change twinned spell"
I was really happy to see catapult on this list, it is a personal favorite of mine. as you guys said, works great for an alchemist character, I was thinking casting Catapult using a jug of oil, into Quickened Spell into Fire Bolt to light the oil. Another fun trick I can think of is if you're a multiclassed Eldrich Knight for extra casting you can cast Catapult and fling your weapon at your foes and then use your bonus action to have it warp back to you like some sorta fantasy Jedi. One last one I thought of is filling up jars full of ball bearings for deploying at your enemies. Honestly, I think the list could go on all day. (Did I mention It doesn't take any Verbal or Material components? Just disco point at that dragon and you're good!) Also since I'm done gushing about Catapult I also wanted to give a shout out to Watery Sphere, it summons a 5ft sphere of water that can float up to 10 feet off the ground, and can hold up to four medium creatures, if it moves off a drop off then it safely floats down so it can be used as a jury-rigged feather fall if you have the time, you can move it to 30 feet in a line and any creature who shares a space must make a strength saving throw or be restrained and engulfed in water, meaning casters you're currently fighting are typically going to fail the save, and if they fail they can't use any Verbal material spells (Catapult go!) and if you can move whoever is trapped in it over a pit just stop concentrating on the spell and they fall like rocks. I could also see this spell being used for fire fighting, or even cover in some scenarios. Also, I like the idea of having a wizard who traps foes in Watery Spere then casts Lightning Bolt. Thanks for another great video, Stay Nerdy!
Catapult is arguably one of the very few spells that can affect a rokshasa. The spell accelerates and flings an object to deal nonmagical damage. By the time his magic immunity negates the catapult, the projectile is already moving at him. It depends on the DM, but this is a really fun way for a low-level caster to make a smug Rokshasa think twice about laughing at him.
Good list, but Haste is usually not considered a "Tier 1" spell because Tier 1 of play normally means levels 1-4, which are levels where Wizards normally don't get access to 3rd level spells (like Haste). A good tier 1 buff spell, imho, is Mage Armor.
Point of order. How are 3rd level spells Tier 1? Even full casters don't get 3rd level spells until 5th level - at which time they are Tier 2. In fact, the video even points out the 5th character level requirement.
@@scttlewis02 And some (Good/useful) level 2 spells as well (some) People forget/Don"t Always place as much into them But there is (some Good) ones as well who Agrees?What are your top 6-7 spells for (each) level 1-7 and (Why)?!!And place what the spell fully does, what school it is, what class,and level Etc/etc please!! Also If you Reply 2 this let us know it is 2 this very comment and Thanks?!!
Leomund's Tiny Hut is great for over night, but what about that short rest that your party is sniveling about wanting, in the middle of the dang dungeon? No problem. "Rope Trick".
Speaking of Iggwilv, another great underrated spell is Tasha’s Hideous Laughter. (Tasha was her alias.) It’s a pretty good Control Spell for a 1st level spell.
The spell is amazing, but I don't think it's underrated. Literally ever character that could take it did in the campaigns I've been in. Particularly at the lower levels it's amazing, isolating an enemy, which is a huge deal (2 fights against 1 enemy are way easier than 1 against 2).
Having the option to get the extra attack to make sure they get to use their Sneak Attack is really good. Also, due to their Cunning Action, another option for them would be to attack, disengage, and then dash, which is a great way to quickly move through the battlefield without taking damage, allowing any healers in the party to focus on damaging the enemy or healing another ally.
@@wuzzy41123 Oddly worded but I think I follow you ? .. You are assuming that allies are engaged and you still have a bonus action, or advantage or something? You can use your offhand or save your bonus action for something else, basically .. plus Haste :)
Catapult is a attack roll and save or suck, but for every miss and save, the next creature in the line is subject to the spell, so eventually something is going to hit, especially in a chase scene.
Of course most things can resist a standard Fireball because they've seen plenty but if you go a Wizard Lore Master from Unearthed Arcana then no one will be able to resist your balls. But if that fails you can always nope away with Misty Step and Thunder Step. As for the Hut I hope that all those young wizards get to upgrade to something better later on like a really nice Mansion.
You dont even need unearthed arcana, just pick up elemental adept feat at lvl 4 and choose Fire. Not only will it ignore resistance it also raises the min damage of fireball because all ones are treated as twos
Disregarding the Tier 1 faux pas... I would argue that Fly trumps Haste for Best Utility. Haste is great in a fight, but is pretty much only useful in a fight. With Fly you can circumvent so many hazards, traps, and even certain dangerous encounters become very, very easy. Afraid of the King of Feathers (Tomb of Annihilation)? Fly over him and lay in with archers or cantrips. Fly can also be upcast for multiple targets at later levels. The only downside to Fly is falling if dispelled. So, fly as low as you can :) In regards to casting Tiny Hut underwater... remember that Waterbreathing is a Ritual spell that lasts for 24 hours. What? You don't have Waterbreathing in your Wizard's spellbook? Get it ;) Anyway, love your work, keep it up :)
Haste filled the buff. Tiny hut for utility because we see it get way more often and it's likely to get used every session there is a rest needed. Can't believe we screwed up the tiers. Nerdarchist Dave
Find familiar if you use it's sight you can use spells that say creatures you can see so you can hide in a closet or be pulling a wagon use your familiar to see them then cast the spell Also glyph of warding is great for abusing or could set multiple glyphs to take down a bigger foe
We used to abuse glyph of warding hardcore when you could put it on things and move them. Warhammers used to be a great place for them. Nerdarchist Dave
I would like to speak up for enlarge/reduce. 1) Gnome wizards a plenty. This +mage hand = flight. 2) Not a door can stay locked when it's half the size. 3) Enlarge stops when it meets the top size but reduce has no such caveat. Reduce+chain+...(treasurechest) = "guys, it's open now." 4) Honestly, all physical puzzles are quickly solved with this spell. 5) As written, a combat buff/debuff, honestly it's lousy. However, if you're at a fun table with a little less strict rules, go ahead and enlarge that crossbow bolt to be a siege-bolt now. (bombs/rocks/heads/...) /end rant.
_Ice knife_ is also eligible for Twin Spell if you're a sorcerer, since its primary effect is firing the knife itself. Fire it at two foes next to each other and that cold damage starts to add up.
In the underwater section of the dmg, it says you can cast spells underwater without the need to breath or speak. The only constraint is how long it takes to cast so you probably can't cast a ritual underwater but the spell itself should be perfectly fine. The rules for holding your breath would make it very easy to cast it
Catnap had to be the most op spell at this level. The warlock is all tapped out? Reduce, catnap. Then swaddle him and drop him in a backpack. He will be fresh as a daisy by the time the next encounter rolls around.
re: Catapult and alchemist's supplies Since you refer to it as a ruling, I assume there's no official word on the interaction? In which case, I'd be inclined to have the Catapult do no more damage to the target than the ammunition would be able to absorb (i.e. - if it takes 3 damage to break the vial, it will max out at 3 damage) and then add the effect of the vial. On the other hand, I'd probably also consider how powerful it would be relative to the rest of the party, how it might affect current and future storytelling, and how "cool" it seems.
Seriously, how did find familiar not make it to this list. Great deal more relevant to tier one then leomunds tiny hunt. Leomunds is great but seriously more a tier two onward comfort.
@@Nerdarchy I haven't had a chance to use flock of familiars but it too is a great spell. Wasn't hating on the list this time, always tough choices to be made when it comes to spell selection. :) Wizard spellbooks for the win though!! :)
One of my favorite low level spells is rope trick. If you know how to use it you can shoot off spells at people and then go back into your bubble dimension and be invulnerable until your next turn and then repeat the process.
Ice Knife is very good, but potentially hitting allies with the AoE damage means that it can sometimes not be ideal (nothing wrong with that, but the downside comes up quite often).
If you choose the Vedalken race, they are partially amphibious so they *CAN* cast Tiny Hut underwater, and they have racial bonus boost +2 to INT and +1 boost to WIS. Perfect for spellcasters.
Eh... I kinda consider level 3 spells the start of tier 2. Really I'd like to have seen this with more of a focus on 1st and 2nd level spells. The tools that help you survive until you get level 3 spells as the squishy boy. Good choices otherwise though! Magic Missile deserves mad respect, Haste is great (until it runs out), Fireball is crazy powerful, and safe resting is crucial. Regarding obscure spells... ehhh a little more interested in non damage spells in that regard. With what I said above in mind.... Rope Trick and Expeditious Retreat. They fill similar roles to Haste and Leomund's Tiny Hut, just decidedly less impressive because you can take them sooner. In my opinion Rope Trick still definitely retains it's utility later as well since it's a short rest in a can. Short cast time makes it great for emergency escapes / stealth as well. Spend your hit dice, your short rest features including even more magic for a Wizard... all for a level 2 spell slot. Nearly guaranteed safety... just don't be seen, or if you have to be seen be ready for what may be out there. Probably good for ambushes too in some cases. Be where you shouldn't be in an hour or so. Expeditious retreat is also notable for being a bonus action spell. Particularly early on that's rare and it lets casters stay out of melee. The low spell slot also means it's more fire and forget than a spell of the caliber of haste. You can use this on the fight with the bandits without feeling like you blew your big spells too early. Dragon's Breath is a good obscure spell. It's interesting in that you can give it to anything else with a mouth (we could assume working mouth is a requirement). It has variable damage type too. Pairs very well with a Familiar for two reasons 1) Dragon's Breath takes an 'action' but isn't an 'attack' meaning the familiar can run around spraying death. 2) They can pass this spell to someone else discreetly. If a rat touches a prisoner, who cares? Oh man now the prisoner is breathing acid! Have an ally who won't be of any use in a fight? Might be now! Beyond that it lasts for up to a minute. For a level 2 spell that can keep doing 3d6 damage in a 15 foot cone that's pretty good. It also scales with spell level... so, scaling that applies for up to 10 turns. This spell is beautiful. The spell component is even very mundane in most situations.
I was torn between flock of familiars or tiny hut or catapult. We kind of goofed on the level 3 spells. 4 tiers so we got it in our heads they would be divided up evenly. Nerdarchist Dave
if I'm only going to ever get four 3rd level spells with my wizard and never find any other 3rd level spells in the campaign, haste is not going to be one of my level-up picks
I had a awesome experince this Monday using Shield to push my Wizard AC to 21 which negate all 3 Attack from the Otyugh, which ruin the DM plans to down me and have the other party memeber try to save me.
That is the risk you take. Hopefully someone can counter spell that dispel magic. It also sucks the casters action to dispel. Which means they aren't casting something nasty your way. Nerdarchist Dave
On Catapult... 1) It's 1 to 5 lbs, not 3. It also scales with spell level! 2) If you miss with a cool attack item it does kinda waste that, though that's true if you just chucked the acid vial and miss also. 3) The spell specifies that the object AND what it strikes take 3d8 bludgeoning. Most objects designed for unleashing AOE on the enemy by throwing should almost always break under that damage. Good luck to the DM that spoil sports the specific wording of a spell. 4) Also consider weaponizing dumb things like pillows or cake. 5) Good for throwing things in general also if you plan it right, since if it reaches the max range and doesn't strike something it just kinda falls down. Throw a secret note onto a roof for a contact from street level, deliver the quest's key item to the distant Rogue who is out of reach of your weak mage arms- possibly saving you from the big bad's wrath.
Tritan can cast under water since they are an aquatic race. Also, water breathing is a spell... There can also be certain pieces of equipment that will allow water breathing.
Would you do more damage for Fireball, if it were triggered in a confined space? Basically a 10x10 room as you chuck a Fireball in the room, while closing the door.
Weird point is Gary's son talked about why he developed Melf's Acid Arrows, because the concussive effect of Fireball in an enclosed space. Was in an interview about his first mage Melf.
@@Nerdarchy Weird point is Gary's son talked about why he developed Melf's Acid Arrows, because the concussive effect of Fireball in an enclosed space. Was in an interview about his first mage Melf.
Hey, so haste can make you EXTREMELY FAST. Let's say you're a wood elf monk, right? At level 20 your natural base movement is 65 because of monk, plus the 5 from wood elf. If you get the mobile feat this increases to 75. BUT THEN If you dash with your action then use step of the wind with your bonus action you can get up to 300 feet in 3 seconds. Imagine if you were hasted. You could get 150 feet base movement, dash with your action for 300 feet, dash again with your extra action for 600 feet, then dash with step of the wind for 1200 feet :)
I'm going to clear up a misunderstanding you have here. The Dash action grants you extra movement equal to your character's speed, not the distance you have moved this turn as you are calculating. So without Haste, your example character would run 225 ft in a turn; 75 for base movement, then an additional 150 for the 2 dash actions. With Haste, you would run 600 ft; 150 for base movement, then an additional 450 for the 3 Dash actions.
Sonaru M With haste your base movement is doubled right? So you would start with 150, then double it with your action dash making it 300, then your step of the wind 450 feet, then your haste dash would be 600?
What do you guys think about Lightning bolt ricocheting off surfaces, allowing it to hit someone multiple times if you aim it right? Lightbolt travels 100ft, it doesnt say it stops traveling once it hits something
It used to bounce in earlier editions. A lot of fun was had with geometry both by players and the DM. It was special the 1st time you took you own lightning bolt to the face. Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy I played with a DM and his Wife who both had 30+ years of experience playing D&D and he would rule the lightning bolt would bounce (and kept a lot of older rules around). He had, at on point brought out like 5 Ancient Blue Dragons to surround us and we had to call upon a god to send them away (and make a deal with their boss). After they flew away, the dm told us that each of the dragons positioned themselves in such a way that each of their breathe weapons would bounce all over the inside of our courtyard and drop almost all our giants we had recruited, and everyone else in the first volley.
I have a question for you fellas. I've had a hell of a time building a dedicated debuffer in 5E. Back in 3.5/PF debuff wizard was one of my favorite builds.
It depends on how much debuffing you want to do I think. If you want to be that dedicated to it you'd be best off finding as many non concentration debuffs as possible while gathering a few potent concentration requiring ones. Consider AOE, single target, and being able to target a wide variety of saves. Hex is a popular option since it boosts your damage output VS the target and also can ruin their ability checks. Ability checks in combat are a bit niche, but if you pick out the right check on the right enemy it can really mess them up. Can break up / help inflict grapples and ruin climb checks if you go after strength, I think it helps against concentration checks if you target con, messing up wisdom could keep them from perceiving hidden things. Consider adding a familiar to a Cleric. I seem to recall they have a lot of nasty touch spells a familiar can help you inflict from a distance. Really a subtle familiar can invade and mess up a lot of things in an enemy base without suspicion depending on how visible magic is ruled to be. Dispel and Counterspell could be considered worthy debuffs in that Dispel can remove all sorts of positive effects on targets or remove debuffs they put out on the field like Darkness and Counterspell can waste an opponent's big spell slots and turns. Also consider things that hinder the ability to attack in specific ways, move, and hear such as wind spells and silence or things that interfere with specific sorts of creatures like moonbeam. Modifying Eldritch Blast with Lance of Lethargy and Repelling Blast is an effective way of hurting the foe while also shoving them back AND slowing them down, spell slot and concentration cost free. Off the top of my head for debuffing spellcasters... that's what I've got. Can't say what all would work together since I've not built one myself. Consider mixing buffs in along with the debuffs if possible / necessary.
I don't really like leomunds tiny hut. It depends on the group ofc, but a big part of the game from my pespective is to get into trouble in interesting ways. A DM that really wants to mess with the partys ability to rest can easily think of ways to do so, meaning what I see this spell doing is mainly just taking away some oportuneties for interesting encounters.
Nerdarchy I want to thank nerdarchy for being the first channel to respond to one of my comments. Keep up the good work guys I’ve only been playing for around 8 months and I’m currently running my own campaign. You have taught me so much and given me really interesting ideas for how to manage the story my players are in. As well y’all have made my characters far far better designs.
Yea we goofed, oops. Why have 20 levels and 4 tiers if you aren't going to split them up evenly? Rhetorical question I know it's because of fireball and extra attack. Nerdarchist Dave
There is another spell that every wizard has and is iconic in its own right. If your wizard doesn't have this spell in their spellbook at character creation, then why even play the class at all? What spell is it? DETECT MAGIC.
There are better 3rd level spells than what they had selected (ie: counterspell, tiny servant, hypnotic pattern... etc) but its not even tier 1 spells (levels 1 - 4). I hope they create a new list cause this is suprisingly dissapointing.
@@Nerdarchy I give you guys plenty of credit where it's due. And often times I enjoy your intros. However like I said in my opinion this one kind of fell flat...it felt like Dave struggled with the dialogue. As for the rest of the video, as always I found it informative and enjoyable
> There are seven ogres surrounding you. > How could they surround us? I had Mordenkainen's Magical Watchdog cast. > No, you didn't. > I totally did! You asked me if I wanted any equipment before this adventure and I said "no," but I need material components for all my spells, so I cast Mordenkainen's Faithful Watchdog! > But you never actually *cast* it. > I did, though! I completely said when you asked me-- > No, you DIDN'T! You didn't actually SAY that you were casting the SPELL so now there's OGRES, okay?
For some yes for others no. There are even requests for more videos like this for other classes. What do you define as content? What were you looking for when you came to this video? Why would you go to a video that is clearly identified as list video? Nerdarchist Dave
Time stamps for the video.
>>>>>>>>>
>> Text block to stop spoilers
>>>>>>>>>
>>
2:55 Magic Missile
4:16 Haste
5:24 Shield
6:32 Catapult
6:50 Ice Knife
9:35 Leomund's Tiny Hut
12:23 Fireball
Thanks you.
Nerdarchist Dave
Could you edit the comment so it doesn't give off any spoilers?
@@carsonrush3352 , done.
@@shanerooney7288, you're a gentleman and a scholar, sir.
@@carsonrush3352, No U
Ice Knife used to be a sick spell on my Sorcerer back when my DM ruled it twinnable, as it’s basically a low cost cluster bomb against minions. Then Sage Advice ruled it illegal despite the spell only targetting one creature, so I moved on to twinning Dragon’s Breath onto familiars to blast mooks that way, and lo and behold Sage Advice ruled THAT illegal despite it also targetting only one creature.
It’s like WotC just doesn’t want Sorcerers to have any toys.
They did Turk that you can twin witch bolt
Also they aren’t single target the damage hurts more than one creature. So it has to only damage or heal or buff on character
It’s designed to make concentration spells better
Twinned Spell says “When you cast a spell that targets only one creature...” and both Ice Knife and Dragon’s Breath only target one creature. Either they errata the ability, or they should just rule the way it is written.
@@M0ebius I agree the verbage doesn't make sense in the phb/errata for twinned. But the way I see it, if the spell has any potiental to harm/target more than 1 creature at the level it's casted, you can't twin it.
So dragons breath doesn't work since it's AoE, also rng rolls like chaos bolt that could hit a 2nd a creature don't work either.
I think they errata'ed it since it was limiting design space for future spells the way they originally wrote twinned spell. Basically "we want to make these cool spells going forward but it would be OP with twinned spell, so we have to change twinned spell"
I use Catapult with Oil Flask, while the Elf held action to cast Firebolt.
Nice!
Nerdarchist Dave
Catapult with magic stone depending on the ruling of your dm can do an extra 1d6+spell mod
After our Rogue almost drowned in a trap, my necromancer would ritually cast Water Breathing every morning on the party.
That's a level of paranoia I can wholeheartedly support.
Nerdarchist Dave
I was really happy to see catapult on this list, it is a personal favorite of mine. as you guys said, works great for an alchemist character, I was thinking casting Catapult using a jug of oil, into Quickened Spell into Fire Bolt to light the oil. Another fun trick I can think of is if you're a multiclassed Eldrich Knight for extra casting you can cast Catapult and fling your weapon at your foes and then use your bonus action to have it warp back to you like some sorta fantasy Jedi. One last one I thought of is filling up jars full of ball bearings for deploying at your enemies. Honestly, I think the list could go on all day. (Did I mention It doesn't take any Verbal or Material components? Just disco point at that dragon and you're good!)
Also since I'm done gushing about Catapult I also wanted to give a shout out to Watery Sphere, it summons a 5ft sphere of water that can float up to 10 feet off the ground, and can hold up to four medium creatures, if it moves off a drop off then it safely floats down so it can be used as a jury-rigged feather fall if you have the time, you can move it to 30 feet in a line and any creature who shares a space must make a strength saving throw or be restrained and engulfed in water, meaning casters you're currently fighting are typically going to fail the save, and if they fail they can't use any Verbal material spells (Catapult go!) and if you can move whoever is trapped in it over a pit just stop concentrating on the spell and they fall like rocks. I could also see this spell being used for fire fighting, or even cover in some scenarios. Also, I like the idea of having a wizard who traps foes in Watery Spere then casts Lightning Bolt.
Thanks for another great video, Stay Nerdy!
Jar of caltrops!
Nerdarchist Dave
Catapult is arguably one of the very few spells that can affect a rokshasa. The spell accelerates and flings an object to deal nonmagical damage. By the time his magic immunity negates the catapult, the projectile is already moving at him. It depends on the DM, but this is a really fun way for a low-level caster to make a smug Rokshasa think twice about laughing at him.
Good list, but Haste is usually not considered a "Tier 1" spell because Tier 1 of play normally means levels 1-4, which are levels where Wizards normally don't get access to 3rd level spells (like Haste). A good tier 1 buff spell, imho, is Mage Armor.
Never underestimate your 1st level spells. Alarm and Sleep make for a powerful combination.
Point of order. How are 3rd level spells Tier 1? Even full casters don't get 3rd level spells until 5th level - at which time they are Tier 2. In fact, the video even points out the 5th character level requirement.
Yea we misfired. 4 tiers for some reason we were thinking they were evenly split.
Nerdarchist Dave
If you think of the spell levels as different tiers, rather than character level, they would be correct. That is the way I took it anyway.
Thank you! When they said a 3rd lvl spell i was like, umm that isn't low tier. Shoot i was suspecting only lvl 1 spells
@@scttlewis02 And some (Good/useful) level 2 spells as well (some) People forget/Don"t Always place as much into them But there is (some Good) ones as well who Agrees?What are your top 6-7 spells for (each) level 1-7 and (Why)?!!And place what the spell fully does, what school it is, what class,and level Etc/etc please!! Also If you Reply 2 this let us know it is 2 this very comment and Thanks?!!
Take even the meekest player, give them an evoker with Fireball and watch them turn into a walking nuclear war ...
Fire isn't fission.
@@VeritasEtAequitas simile
I was literally just making my wizard character with an alchemist background, and the idea with the Catapult spell is freaking amazing.
Thanks!
Leomund's Tiny Hut is great for over night, but what about that short rest that your party is sniveling about wanting, in the middle of the dang dungeon? No problem. "Rope Trick".
Speaking of Iggwilv, another great underrated spell is Tasha’s Hideous Laughter. (Tasha was her alias.) It’s a pretty good Control Spell for a 1st level spell.
True. Does it scale well?
Yea that spell is hilarious.
Nerdarchist Dave
Good pick. You essentially get most of the effects of the 6th level Otto’s Irresistable Dance for the low price of a 1st level slot.
The spell is amazing, but I don't think it's underrated. Literally ever character that could take it did in the campaigns I've been in. Particularly at the lower levels it's amazing, isolating an enemy, which is a huge deal (2 fights against 1 enemy are way easier than 1 against 2).
"Foolish traveller how dare you step into my lair, surely you know I have the most robust and forceful balls of any wizard!"
"ummmm"
"What?"
An Hasted Rogue is a damage machine. I love love love "Haste" when I play a Rogue.
Having the option to get the extra attack to make sure they get to use their Sneak Attack is really good. Also, due to their Cunning Action, another option for them would be to attack, disengage, and then dash, which is a great way to quickly move through the battlefield without taking damage, allowing any healers in the party to focus on damaging the enemy or healing another ally.
@@wuzzy41123 Oddly worded but I think I follow you ? .. You are assuming that allies are engaged and you still have a bonus action, or advantage or something? You can use your offhand or save your bonus action for something else, basically .. plus Haste :)
@@paulcrosslin6011 Yeah, that's exactly my point. Haste just gives a Rouge a lot of great options depending on circumstance.
@@wuzzy41123 Indeed!
Catapult is a attack roll and save or suck, but for every miss and save, the next creature in the line is subject to the spell, so eventually something is going to hit, especially in a chase scene.
Of course most things can resist a standard Fireball because they've seen plenty but if you go a Wizard Lore Master from Unearthed Arcana then no one will be able to resist your balls. But if that fails you can always nope away with Misty Step and Thunder Step. As for the Hut I hope that all those young wizards get to upgrade to something better later on like a really nice Mansion.
You dont even need unearthed arcana, just pick up elemental adept feat at lvl 4 and choose Fire. Not only will it ignore resistance it also raises the min damage of fireball because all ones are treated as twos
I'd love to see lists like this for other caster classes. Your opinions are always interesting!
We could probably make that happen.
Nerdarchist Dave
I love the smell of bat guano and sulfur in the morning... >.>
Who doesn't?
Nerdarchist Dave
Not only do I remember reading that short story, but it's still on my shelf. Because I'm old and hoard books.
5e, how to stealth. Shatter the door, shatter the hallway, shatter the enemy. "How did they know we were here?"
Shatter is more fun than Fireball. Prove me wrong
Why sneak when you can just bait the enemy into a 4th level shatter
@@Halfgnomen *That's a whopping 6d8 Thunder damage in a 10ft radius!* A Tempest Cleric could make that 52 damage easily, twice a short rest
It's a mystery Scooby Doo.
Nerdarchist Dave
4th level shatter would be 5d8, wouldn't it? 4th level fireball would be 9d6, and twice the range.
Disregarding the Tier 1 faux pas...
I would argue that Fly trumps Haste for Best Utility. Haste is great in a fight, but is pretty much only useful in a fight. With Fly you can circumvent so many hazards, traps, and even certain dangerous encounters become very, very easy. Afraid of the King of Feathers (Tomb of Annihilation)? Fly over him and lay in with archers or cantrips. Fly can also be upcast for multiple targets at later levels. The only downside to Fly is falling if dispelled. So, fly as low as you can :)
In regards to casting Tiny Hut underwater... remember that Waterbreathing is a Ritual spell that lasts for 24 hours. What? You don't have Waterbreathing in your Wizard's spellbook? Get it ;)
Anyway, love your work, keep it up :)
Haste filled the buff. Tiny hut for utility because we see it get way more often and it's likely to get used every session there is a rest needed.
Can't believe we screwed up the tiers.
Nerdarchist Dave
Find familiar if you use it's sight you can use spells that say creatures you can see so you can hide in a closet or be pulling a wagon use your familiar to see them then cast the spell
Also glyph of warding is great for abusing or could set multiple glyphs to take down a bigger foe
We used to abuse glyph of warding hardcore when you could put it on things and move them. Warhammers used to be a great place for them.
Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy, I especially favored the "under-sides" of shields and bucklers, myself... A Rogue-Mage is a pain in the @$$... ;o)
Now you can set as a trap for as a bandit or for monsters as players
Also I meant great for ambushing not abusing but good to know
I would like to speak up for enlarge/reduce.
1) Gnome wizards a plenty. This +mage hand = flight.
2) Not a door can stay locked when it's half the size.
3) Enlarge stops when it meets the top size but reduce has no such caveat. Reduce+chain+...(treasurechest) = "guys, it's open now."
4) Honestly, all physical puzzles are quickly solved with this spell.
5) As written, a combat buff/debuff, honestly it's lousy.
However, if you're at a fun table with a little less strict rules, go ahead and enlarge that crossbow bolt to be a siege-bolt now. (bombs/rocks/heads/...)
/end rant.
_Ice knife_ is also eligible for Twin Spell if you're a sorcerer, since its primary effect is firing the knife itself. Fire it at two foes next to each other and that cold damage starts to add up.
that boomer humor at the beginning really killed lmao
If my pc has a ring of spell storing, I can guaranty it's loaded with 5 shield spells if I have time to reload it.
In the underwater section of the dmg, it says you can cast spells underwater without the need to breath or speak. The only constraint is how long it takes to cast so you probably can't cast a ritual underwater but the spell itself should be perfectly fine. The rules for holding your breath would make it very easy to cast it
Reminds me of that disk world pub song "a wizard's staff has a knob on the end".
But were you aware that the hedgehog can never be buggered? At all?
Please keep your opening sketches going forever. Full on chuckle every time.
I don't know which came first but fireball competitions was a thing in Discworlds Unseen Academy.
Catnap had to be the most op spell at this level. The warlock is all tapped out? Reduce, catnap. Then swaddle him and drop him in a backpack. He will be fresh as a daisy by the time the next encounter rolls around.
Shield, Burning Hands, Detect Magic, Identify, Magic Missle
Title says 5 spells, they give us 7.
I can only prepare so many spells guys, wth?
re: Catapult and alchemist's supplies
Since you refer to it as a ruling, I assume there's no official word on the interaction? In which case, I'd be inclined to have the Catapult do no more damage to the target than the ammunition would be able to absorb (i.e. - if it takes 3 damage to break the vial, it will max out at 3 damage) and then add the effect of the vial.
On the other hand, I'd probably also consider how powerful it would be relative to the rest of the party, how it might affect current and future storytelling, and how "cool" it seems.
Seriously, how did find familiar not make it to this list. Great deal more relevant to tier one then leomunds tiny hunt. Leomunds is great but seriously more a tier two onward comfort.
I agree.
We did almost put flock of familiars on the list. We were mistaken in thinking the tiers split up evenly.
Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy I haven't had a chance to use flock of familiars but it too is a great spell. Wasn't hating on the list this time, always tough choices to be made when it comes to spell selection. :)
Wizard spellbooks for the win though!! :)
I'm surprised no find familiar as a utility spell
Flock of familiars was so close to being on the list.
Nerdarchist Dave
The best thing about this list is for Sorcerers Haste and Ice Knife can be twinned!
It's nice to listen to you guys. You've got a good energy!
Thanks so much!
I always like using catapult with ball bearings
One of my favorite low level spells is rope trick. If you know how to use it you can shoot off spells at people and then go back into your bubble dimension and be invulnerable until your next turn and then repeat the process.
We used rope trick a lot in earlier editions.
Nerdarchist Dave
Rope Trick is very good but made virtually obsolete by Leomund’s Tiny Hut.
Here because I got spell shamed on my first game using a wizard
same
you fools really been sleeping on ice knife?
damn near ever caster i make has it
Ice Knife is very good, but potentially hitting allies with the AoE damage means that it can sometimes not be ideal (nothing wrong with that, but the downside comes up quite often).
If you choose the Vedalken race, they are partially amphibious so they *CAN* cast Tiny Hut underwater, and they have racial bonus boost +2 to INT and +1 boost to WIS. Perfect for spellcasters.
Flaming Sphere didn't make the list? It is pretty good for a low level spell.
Eh... I kinda consider level 3 spells the start of tier 2. Really I'd like to have seen this with more of a focus on 1st and 2nd level spells. The tools that help you survive until you get level 3 spells as the squishy boy.
Good choices otherwise though! Magic Missile deserves mad respect, Haste is great (until it runs out), Fireball is crazy powerful, and safe resting is crucial. Regarding obscure spells... ehhh a little more interested in non damage spells in that regard.
With what I said above in mind.... Rope Trick and Expeditious Retreat. They fill similar roles to Haste and Leomund's Tiny Hut, just decidedly less impressive because you can take them sooner.
In my opinion Rope Trick still definitely retains it's utility later as well since it's a short rest in a can. Short cast time makes it great for emergency escapes / stealth as well. Spend your hit dice, your short rest features including even more magic for a Wizard... all for a level 2 spell slot. Nearly guaranteed safety... just don't be seen, or if you have to be seen be ready for what may be out there. Probably good for ambushes too in some cases. Be where you shouldn't be in an hour or so.
Expeditious retreat is also notable for being a bonus action spell. Particularly early on that's rare and it lets casters stay out of melee. The low spell slot also means it's more fire and forget than a spell of the caliber of haste. You can use this on the fight with the bandits without feeling like you blew your big spells too early.
Dragon's Breath is a good obscure spell. It's interesting in that you can give it to anything else with a mouth (we could assume working mouth is a requirement). It has variable damage type too. Pairs very well with a Familiar for two reasons 1) Dragon's Breath takes an 'action' but isn't an 'attack' meaning the familiar can run around spraying death. 2) They can pass this spell to someone else discreetly. If a rat touches a prisoner, who cares? Oh man now the prisoner is breathing acid! Have an ally who won't be of any use in a fight? Might be now! Beyond that it lasts for up to a minute. For a level 2 spell that can keep doing 3d6 damage in a 15 foot cone that's pretty good. It also scales with spell level... so, scaling that applies for up to 10 turns. This spell is beautiful. The spell component is even very mundane in most situations.
I was torn between flock of familiars or tiny hut or catapult. We kind of goofed on the level 3 spells. 4 tiers so we got it in our heads they would be divided up evenly.
Nerdarchist Dave
I miss fireballs that had volume and lighting bolts that bounced off solid surfaces.
Yea, it used to be xd6 per caster lvl yet still cost a lvl 3 slot. I miss that.
if I'm only going to ever get four 3rd level spells with my wizard and never find any other 3rd level spells in the campaign, haste is not going to be one of my level-up picks
I had a awesome experince this Monday using Shield to push my Wizard AC to 21 which negate all 3 Attack from the Otyugh, which ruin the DM plans to down me and have the other party memeber try to save me.
Haste is useless if your facing a caster. Dispel magic and you lose your turn.
That is the risk you take. Hopefully someone can counter spell that dispel magic. It also sucks the casters action to dispel. Which means they aren't casting something nasty your way.
Nerdarchist Dave
I will also add that a sorcerer can subtle spell and leave no trace they cast haste and unless the enemy has detect magic there’s no real way to tell.
On Catapult... 1) It's 1 to 5 lbs, not 3. It also scales with spell level! 2) If you miss with a cool attack item it does kinda waste that, though that's true if you just chucked the acid vial and miss also. 3) The spell specifies that the object AND what it strikes take 3d8 bludgeoning. Most objects designed for unleashing AOE on the enemy by throwing should almost always break under that damage. Good luck to the DM that spoil sports the specific wording of a spell. 4) Also consider weaponizing dumb things like pillows or cake. 5) Good for throwing things in general also if you plan it right, since if it reaches the max range and doesn't strike something it just kinda falls down. Throw a secret note onto a roof for a contact from street level, deliver the quest's key item to the distant Rogue who is out of reach of your weak mage arms- possibly saving you from the big bad's wrath.
Tritan can cast under water since they are an aquatic race. Also, water breathing is a spell... There can also be certain pieces of equipment that will allow water breathing.
Would you do more damage for Fireball, if it were triggered in a confined space? Basically a 10x10 room as you chuck a Fireball in the room, while closing the door.
No.
No. Fireball only generates heat no concussive force.
Nerdarchist Dave
Weird point is Gary's son talked about why he developed Melf's Acid Arrows, because the concussive effect of Fireball in an enclosed space. Was in an interview about his first mage Melf.
@@Nerdarchy Weird point is Gary's son talked about why he developed Melf's Acid Arrows, because the concussive effect of Fireball in an enclosed space. Was in an interview about his first mage Melf.
JT B That’s like bringing up what Henry Ford’s intentions were when discussing features on a Tesla. In my opinion utterly irrelevant.
Hey, so haste can make you EXTREMELY FAST.
Let's say you're a wood elf monk, right?
At level 20 your natural base movement is 65 because of monk, plus the 5 from wood elf.
If you get the mobile feat this increases to 75. BUT THEN If you dash with your action then use step of the wind with your bonus action you can get up to 300 feet in 3 seconds.
Imagine if you were hasted. You could get 150 feet base movement, dash with your action for 300 feet, dash again with your extra action for 600 feet, then dash with step of the wind for 1200 feet :)
I'm going to clear up a misunderstanding you have here. The Dash action grants you extra movement equal to your character's speed, not the distance you have moved this turn as you are calculating. So without Haste, your example character would run 225 ft in a turn; 75 for base movement, then an additional 150 for the 2 dash actions. With Haste, you would run 600 ft; 150 for base movement, then an additional 450 for the 3 Dash actions.
Sonaru M With haste your base movement is doubled right? So you would start with 150, then double it with your action dash making it 300, then your step of the wind 450 feet, then your haste dash would be 600?
@@varasatoshi3961 Yep, that's exactly right.
Sonaru M only half as fast as I thought it would be. Still 100 feet in a second. XD
Edit: you can go 68 mph with a haste spell. That's OP
What do you guys think about Lightning bolt ricocheting off surfaces, allowing it to hit someone multiple times if you aim it right? Lightbolt travels 100ft, it doesnt say it stops traveling once it hits something
It used to bounce in earlier editions. A lot of fun was had with geometry both by players and the DM. It was special the 1st time you took you own lightning bolt to the face.
Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy I played with a DM and his Wife who both had 30+ years of experience playing D&D and he would rule the lightning bolt would bounce (and kept a lot of older rules around). He had, at on point brought out like 5 Ancient Blue Dragons to surround us and we had to call upon a god to send them away (and make a deal with their boss). After they flew away, the dm told us that each of the dragons positioned themselves in such a way that each of their breathe weapons would bounce all over the inside of our courtyard and drop almost all our giants we had recruited, and everyone else in the first volley.
@@Lasvegasflight99 sounds like a 1e gm to me.
Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy oh yeah, they both have multiple characters that have survived through the decades, deep into epic levels with spell jammers
I have a question for you fellas. I've had a hell of a time building a dedicated debuffer in 5E. Back in 3.5/PF debuff wizard was one of my favorite builds.
Concentration makes a lot of previous builds a lot tougher.
Nerdarchist Dave
It depends on how much debuffing you want to do I think. If you want to be that dedicated to it you'd be best off finding as many non concentration debuffs as possible while gathering a few potent concentration requiring ones. Consider AOE, single target, and being able to target a wide variety of saves.
Hex is a popular option since it boosts your damage output VS the target and also can ruin their ability checks. Ability checks in combat are a bit niche, but if you pick out the right check on the right enemy it can really mess them up. Can break up / help inflict grapples and ruin climb checks if you go after strength, I think it helps against concentration checks if you target con, messing up wisdom could keep them from perceiving hidden things.
Consider adding a familiar to a Cleric. I seem to recall they have a lot of nasty touch spells a familiar can help you inflict from a distance. Really a subtle familiar can invade and mess up a lot of things in an enemy base without suspicion depending on how visible magic is ruled to be.
Dispel and Counterspell could be considered worthy debuffs in that Dispel can remove all sorts of positive effects on targets or remove debuffs they put out on the field like Darkness and Counterspell can waste an opponent's big spell slots and turns.
Also consider things that hinder the ability to attack in specific ways, move, and hear such as wind spells and silence or things that interfere with specific sorts of creatures like moonbeam.
Modifying Eldritch Blast with Lance of Lethargy and Repelling Blast is an effective way of hurting the foe while also shoving them back AND slowing them down, spell slot and concentration cost free.
Off the top of my head for debuffing spellcasters... that's what I've got. Can't say what all would work together since I've not built one myself. Consider mixing buffs in along with the debuffs if possible / necessary.
I don't really like leomunds tiny hut. It depends on the group ofc, but a big part of the game from my pespective is to get into trouble in interesting ways. A DM that really wants to mess with the partys ability to rest can easily think of ways to do so, meaning what I see this spell doing is mainly just taking away some oportuneties for interesting encounters.
Opens to testicle jokes
Lmao
_Always_ the right move.
They’ve got balls!!!
That's 50% of dnd games anyway.
Nerdarchist Dave
Nerdarchy I want to thank nerdarchy for being the first channel to respond to one of my comments. Keep up the good work guys I’ve only been playing for around 8 months and I’m currently running my own campaign. You have taught me so much and given me really interesting ideas for how to manage the story my players are in. As well y’all have made my characters far far better designs.
Can you do this for Arcane Trickster
Well it wouldn't really work for low tier as Rogues only get to choose their archetype at 3rd level.
As an overall list? I'd be all for it.
These guys look like wizards for real XD
*facepalms* really... balls? i loved it. i love fireball. so useful for when you need it.
If it's good enough for AC/DC it's good enough for us.
Nerdarchist Dave
Hahaha my mom exploded when she heard the beginning
Great Video Guys
ice knife has a higher potential than 3-22 points of damage since the cold damage can affect more than one creature
Are you planning on updating this list once Tasha's Cauldron comes out? Sure to be new great spells that may even replace some of these ones.
Teds hoodie tho!!
it´s me. That wizard who will not use fireball
Action Surge and fire off Magic Missiles. That's the way to do it.
What if you don't require air could you cast underwater?
How about quirky unexpected uses of first tier spells. Short and sweet secondary usage you may not have considered if otherwise dull spells
What is the best 2nd book for a player after the player hand book. She do not want to dm
Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Nerdarchist Dave
I agree. Xanatha's
Agreed love 2 own Both of them At (least)!!! = )
Lol my level 13 wizard is a Cyromancer Warforge hah he only has cold spells and necrotic. doesn't even have fire ball in his spell book lol.
I see you're still spiting me by chair swapping.
Great video, Nerds! I can get down on these. *I'm a Haste junky!*
Glad you enjoyed.
Nerdarchist Dave
How can you cast a verbal component spell while holding your breath?
How can anyone forget ice knife?
but haste is a third lvl spell, you get it at lvl 5
As is Leomund's Tiny Hut...
Yea we goofed, oops. Why have 20 levels and 4 tiers if you aren't going to split them up evenly?
Rhetorical question I know it's because of fireball and extra attack.
Nerdarchist Dave
Balls jokes lmao
We're so fancy.
Nerdarchist Dave
There is another spell that every wizard has and is iconic in its own right. If your wizard doesn't have this spell in their spellbook at character creation, then why even play the class at all?
What spell is it? DETECT MAGIC.
Last game I was a player in, I went GOO Tomelock and took Eldritch Sight.
_So_ useful.
He's got big balls, she's got big balls but I've got the biggest balls of them all!
Did a unicorn vomit on Ted's jumper?
There are better 3rd level spells than what they had selected (ie: counterspell, tiny servant, hypnotic pattern... etc) but its not even tier 1 spells (levels 1 - 4). I hope they create a new list cause this is suprisingly dissapointing.
I always enjoy your videos, but that intro was pretty subpar
Everybody's a crittic.
Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy I give you guys plenty of credit where it's due. And often times I enjoy your intros. However like I said in my opinion this one kind of fell flat...it felt like Dave struggled with the dialogue. As for the rest of the video, as always I found it informative and enjoyable
You could say they... Whiffed? Struck out? Dropped the ball?
Fireball is for serfs.
dave with the smooth sponsor transition lol
That intro was so corny and I loved it, never change
Thanks. Not everyone seems to appreciate our cheesiness.
Nerdarchist Dave
Melf's minute meteors
*I CAST MORDENKAINEN'S MAGICAL WATCHDOG!*
> There are seven ogres surrounding you.
> How could they surround us? I had Mordenkainen's Magical Watchdog cast.
> No, you didn't.
> I totally did! You asked me if I wanted any equipment before this adventure and I said "no," but I need material components for all my spells, so I cast Mordenkainen's Faithful Watchdog!
> But you never actually *cast* it.
> I did, though! I completely said when you asked me--
> No, you DIDN'T! You didn't actually SAY that you were casting the SPELL so now there's OGRES, okay?
Air Genasi wizard can that tiny hut underwater no problem
This is true.
Nerdarchist Dave
And I have the biggest balls of them all!
*cough* find familiar *cough*
Cough flock of familiars cough almost made it on the list cough.
Nerdarchist Dave
Damn, take a second take at that intro before you settle. It's okay.
I'm here cuz I watched Harry Potter again lol
Leomunds hut is a lie. If the the climate is cold and ice. The ground within the hut would be cold and have ice.
B A L L S
Of fire.
Nerdarchist Dave
All due respect, that was the most hilariously cringy intro in youtube history
Nailed it!
Nerdarchist Dave
I don't know if I would call reading five spells you like from the rulebook as content.
They did explain why the spells are useful. Did you not watch before blithering?
For some yes for others no. There are even requests for more videos like this for other classes.
What do you define as content? What were you looking for when you came to this video?
Why would you go to a video that is clearly identified as list video?
Nerdarchist Dave
Love the videos but God that was a cringy intro.
Been a few, and by the presentation, they know it.
im like, 95% sure, the cringe is intentional
We aren't actors nor are we trying to be. The openings are cheesy and corny. We try to come up with things that amuse us.
Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy and thats whats I appreciates aboutcha
@@Nerdarchy and we love you guys for it, dont ever change
Loved the video but the introduction was a bit cringy. Not well edited maybe?
Magic Missle - sucks
Haste - mediocre
Shield - this is a premium quality spell
Catapult - sucks
Ice Knife - mediocre
Leomund's Tiny Hut - amazing ritual
Fireball - premium quality spell at early levels
That intro. So. Much. Cringe.