One thing I forgot to mention is that I actually used 老子 once in Chinese back in China. A guy tried to overcharge me for parking my scooter so I said "I'm not paying" using 老子, then just walked off. Lol.
Classmate used it yesterday. Basically, we already had 8节课 and then suddenly out of nowhere a teacher writes in wechat that we are gonna have 3 extra 节 in 30 minutes. One dude got up, said 老子不上课 and left.
@@Deathblade Hey deathblade theirs an original author who has wrote a book I think is good (Im just a fan and have no other relation with the book) and was wondering how she could get into contact with ww Ps I plan to try and get that info to the author after this lol thanks
I, YOUR GRANDFATHER DISAGREES WITH THIS. Jokes apart, its a quite interesting thing to know. I've read that expression a lot and I don't find it strange anymore. In fact, in my mind it already has like an arrogant and domineering meaning. But yeah, if you read it in a non-sarcastic way is kind of funny
I agree wholeheartedly with your philosophy. Translation is not about translating _words_ ; it's about translating _meaning_ . Taking it even further and, as you say it, translating the _experience_ is a fantastic way to put it. That means to translate the informational content of the text in conjunction with its carried nuance, tone of voice/emotion etc. Bravo!
I always thought that "I your father" was an insult because of the importance that chinese people put on family structure and generational authority. And so you are telling someone you have greater authority over them by being someone of the older generation that they have to bend their head to. Which is why I always liked hearing it and the idea of it made me chuckle. Especially when hearing it from a character that is several years younger from the person they're directing it to
This is a perfect example of how the wrong translation can lead to completely incorrect assumptions, because the expression has nothing to do with that.
My opinion on translation, and one of the biggest reasons I appreciate your hard work so much, is that translation should flow properly in the language that you are translating to, even if it means dropping off phrases that just don't translate well, or changing sentence structure so the meaning of the message, and the impact of the story, are both intact.
Completely agree with you about it being silly to stay "true" to the original language of the novel and not what the author was trying to convey. I remember reading a Korean novel One Man Army and at one point the translator ended trying to keep the sentence structure or something else the same to be "true" to the korean novel. Just ruined it for me as it basically became a slightly better mtl.
Years ago, when I first started ISSTH, I was much more heavily on the side of "direct and accurate" and the narrative suffered because of it. I can hardly go back to read my early work because it's so clunky. I've changed a lot over the years...
"I, your Father" sounds kinda goofy and I thought of it as a bit weird at the beginning but I got used to it. Most of the time I figure out the kind of feeling the author wanted to convey from the context.
I've seen it a few times but the one time it made sense to me is in the novel "Otherworldly Evil Monarch" the MC was talking down to one of the three princes and basically changed his form of addressing himself like five times during his verbal tongue lashing, going from calling himself the guys son to ending with being his grate grand-dad. I don't know why but I was just lmao and thought the MC was cool and funny from that.
I read "this Daddy will spank you!" in a translation a while back, which made me laugh. I like it best when the term is left in pinyin as it adds more originality to the story and the translator can always put the definition in the notes (it's also a good way to learn common terminology).
I actually agree with you, a story should be translated to convey the meaning and expression. It's like when anime change a rice ball to a sandwich so that viewers can get the same emotional experience as a Japanese kid would. But at the same time, I feel that readers can understand context. We can understand that it's arrogance and badassery. But, while we understand that, it's also something cool because it translates in such a funny way. And it works because often times the MC replies "I don't remember having such a son" or something when the enemy says "I'll call you my father". Like, we get that it's something from a different culture and that it's only funny because of it being a translation. We get that. But it shows readers how important status and family hood is, but at the same time, we can see how silly translating stuff could be. But I do agree that you are right and think that if you choose to translate in such a way, then that'd be better
I used to translates manhwas from English to Portuguese, and a lot of times I had to reformulate the whole sentence to make it make sense in my country
I feel like "this lord" or "this [insert high title]" would be more fitting than "I, your father". Conveying the meaning of an expression is better than literally translating it, that's the reason to use a human translators instead of of a machine.
The only time I can think of the English language using the third person might be when talking to your kid. Like “Come, give daddy a hug” or something. Sadly for translation purposes ‘daddy’ isn’t exactly intimidating
I think there is room for both translations. The more literal translations I feel, make the story seem more chinese and closer to the way it should feel even if it doesnt make perfect sense in english. Your mind adapts and you start thinking differently about the language. Trying to westernize the story by removing or changing certain literal translations can remove a lot of the uniqueness of chinese webnovels. I enjoy both types of translations as long as they are done well.
i can't wait to come across this phrase next time with this video in mind now. thank you again for better insights into what is probably now my favorite hobby
I think it really depends on setting/time period My understanding is that family loyalty is super important in at least a lot of the novels as a result of Chinese culture. So when someone goes and tells someone 'I am your father' (paraphrased) it's almost saying that the other person should be begging for forgiveness, not just being scared or intimidated. At the same time if family holds significant weight in these settings then this insult/provocation will hit harder then average. Yes, I agree overall that its very... overused and is a crazy level of anti-immersion, but I'd say semi-regular based (as long as its appropriate for the story) are okay. My ²Cents
Well maybe if it was translated just as "Your father", it always seemed more appropriate to me. I think it would be good to stick to some version of it because it keeps close to the culture. If it goes too close to the common English it loses that feel for an ancient Chinese culture. I guess it wouldn't hurt to change it completely if the story was set in a modern world.
im a hmong american, han chinese call us maio. IMO i think translator decide to use the direct translation cause they dotn want to lose the connotation of the phrase. i dont know how han chinese would use it nowadays back in china, but for us who left china for hundreds of years already, we still use it, and teh connotation of the phrase is the real message. it has 2 or 3 bad connotation, and the time at which is it use will decide whcih connotation it is. if it is use during an arguement, or vobal confrontation, it just mean that hes looking down on u from a higher social/lineage position. if it use right b4 a physical confrontation, then it saying that hell spank you like your dad when u would young and u have no choice but to accept it if it use during a confrotation which you are u losing but still putting up resisting, then what he trying to said it that " you mom already give in to him the nite b4, liek mother like son, you should give in too"
I think you're thinking way too much into it. It's more like the translators open the dictionary and use whatever seems easiest. Furthermore, virtually none of the translators in this scene are skilled writers to begin with.
Great video and topic! I usually omit the father part or when I have no choice, I go with "(Look son,) this daddy here's gonna beat you up!" There are some novels where this "Laozi/Laoniang" is the hallmark of a certain character and it's not possible to replace it while retaining the same effect.
When I first hear it I kind of infer that the meaning was like, putting the person down and asserting dominance due to the status of a father has over the son, especially when you take into account the cultural differences ie. filial piety. It's also an indirect way of saying that you fucked someone's mom :P TL;DR I like the phrase and think it could make sense in English, but the phrasong is awkward. If it used "Daddy" instead of father I think they tone would be conveyed better.
Hmm, for me it always sounded the same as in russian (where similar phrase is used) "this daddy", but probably yes in english it should be translated as "I (your father) f*ked your mother".
Thank you, this expression (among others) is very very annoying and gets me out of the story every time, even if I'm used to it. I've even seen that in actual western works mimicking Chinese fantasy novels, which adds another level of silliness to the story. There is something also about people doing bad translations (and being proud of it!) on purpose to just "sound cool" that I always hated for the cringe effect it gives in far east novel translations (JP, KR, or CN). Very juvenile I guess. But that can completely ruin a good story, and is disrespectful for the original material and author intention.
@@Deathblade Yeah, its like all the "-san, -sensai, -kun, -chan" that gets thrown into anime fan-fiction. EVEN WHEN the setting is a purely Western retelling. I guess its because its an easy shorthand to your characters getting "more friendly" with each other.
I prefer to learn what the saying means, I always like learning how a different cultures create insults and stuff. other wise i would read local fiction.
I'm outspoken on NUF about getting away from literal, even if it means disregarding the terms as a whole. Fool's a good use, but in some or possibly most cases, nothing sounds good and anything coming from it ultimately takes away from flow of the sentence. I don't even care if there are typos here and there, but broken or unnatural English that's painful to read, I can't.
I think that at some point the brain will adjust and the stupidity of the frase will disappear. If I were to pick up a book and read "I, your father" used the same way it is used here I would think "they messed up the translation". After thousands upon thousands of chapters though many of these terms gain a specific meaning due to the context they are used in repeatedly so now to me when I find it in a translation it no longer comes off as silly. Of course this applies to all repeated translation mistakes but this one I honestly don't mind anymore.
I think third-person address is valid in English in more cases than one might think. "This humble servant has acquired a marvelous treasure, my lord." Here, the third person form of address diminishes the importance of the self in that statement. It is very formal and uncommon in modern speech, but keep in mind that most Chinese fantasy stories have a historical basis of some kind. It's okay to veer a bit from what's common, because unusual doesn't necessarily mean comical. But, on the comical side... "Minister Feng has been hurt, betrayed, and abused by his people!" One can easily imagine an ineffectual official who is rather pompous and out-of-touch. Being out-of-touch is not always comical, either. For example, a dragon could easily play up his otherworldly angle by saying something like "The King of Eastern Thunders greets you, mortal."
Hi Deathblade! I love your videos but have you considered putting a very light background music over the entire thing? Just to add a bit of rhythm and make the transitions with the memes a bit less 'brutal' kind of. Keep up the good work though!
I've seen it as "daddy" or "your daddy" 😂 It's funny but you kinda know what they're trying to convey so when you're reading you can still feel the emotion.
I would say versions like that are definitely better than "I, your father", but they're still wildly missing the mark. I can never imagine a pissed off biker in a biker bar calling himself "your daddy" before pulling a switchblade and trying to kill you.
@@Deathblade I agree. I always looked at it as a cultural thing. What made it hit home was a machine translation of a fairly popular novel. The MC had referred to himself as "your daddy" and at some point took his opponents weapon and thanked him for being "filial" and it was cocky and bad ass. I don't know how it would translate but for that particular scene it worked.
lemons limes that’s an actual form of address that essentially means “master”. The “young master” is shao ye, and his father would be the “old master” lao ye. It is also the common word for grandfather.
The arrogance of the person considers himself to be at the level of the other person father who can beat him easily. since he is at that level maybe he is just saying to the other guy that He’s so badass that he can mop the floor using his opponent. Just a expression of looking down at the opponent. Well it’s just my opinion so I don’t expect agreement to it. Thanks for your video DB. I love your translation so keep your good work.
It's the kind of language you'd also use when you quit a horrible job with the horrible boss that thinks he's the shit. You say, Laozi bu gan le! Its supposed to communicate being fed up with the other person's behavior or just to establish you are not to be messed with. It's only used when you don't want to play nice.
So what about "This daddy of yours..." or "Daddy here..."? I might be biased with my English, since I read waaaaaaaay too many chinese novels in the past few years.
@@Deathblade So if I'm understanding correctly, it's arrogant but not intimidating, as it should be - it should be a subtle threat, not just an insult. I don't know, I'm not good at acting tough :p Anyways, is it the same case when they use grandpa, or ancestor in the same way, or do those come from a different type of expression?
Hey DB, thanks for the video. Could you make one explaining how the word "star" is used? because sometimes I see it used to refer to an actual sun and sometimes to a planet, kinda confusing. thanks
I like the quirks and cultural aspects of different languages that I like when they're present in translated text. That works great when you're immersed in a story and knows the context that it is a chinese story. So despite it being literal and sounding silly out in the wild, in my head it's a super confrontational and disrespectful in the story's culture.
I have seen it being translated as "this master" which looks better without losing the exotic feeling, although it is a bad translation, Translating it as 'father' just looks really silly.
I always thought that because so many Chinese fantasy protagonists value filial piety above everything else it is like the ultimate insult and form of arrogance for a character to put himself in the same position as our hero's parents
Hi Deathblade, I really like your videos. I also translate Chinese Novels and had finished my first book last year and am working on the second one. I have a very specific question: How do you translate the Chinese phrase : 不愧是. It can come in many forms: 大师不愧是大师，deathblade 不愧是 deathblade. I saw people translate it as "Masters are really worthy of their title." which is...OK(?) but "Deathblade is really worthy of being called deathblade " will sound very odd. I usually translate it as "Masters are indeed powerful", or "Deathblade is indeed experienced." I wonder how will you translate them?
Good question. That's definitely one that I have struggled with. It's hard to come up with something that carries the same meaning without having it be a really long sentence haha. It really depends on the context. I often find the term used as a reaction to someone doing something, in which case I will sometimes use "that's just what I would expect of X" or "X really lives up to his reputation" or some variation of those two. In other situations, I'll just play it by ear and come up with something that makes sense based on the context, such as your version. Hope this helps.
I 100% agree. Whenever I see things translated in a way that feels wrong, it makes me want to stop reading the translation. I couldn't care less if it follows the exact meaning of every single word, I want my stories translated in a way that makes sense and flows well. It's perfectly okay to rewrite sentences or even entire paragraphs to make them fit better in English. As long as it serves the same purpose in the plot and carries the same intent, the specific words don't matter. It's like a difference in cultivation. A beginner can memorize and copy words, but a master can reproduce the original intent without using any of the same words. A master can produce sword intent in a painting, whereas a beginner can't even do it with a sword.
The sort of equivalent in Japanese is 俺さま "Ore-sama" an extremely self-important and boastful way to refer to yourself. I don't think anyone would ever say it in real life. It doesn't have any direct meaning so we don't get the "I your father" problem. A common translation is to have the character title themselves, e.g. "I, the magnificent so-and-so, shall defeat you easily."
deathblade do you have any suggestions for me, I just finished renegade immortal, followed by pursuit of truth,then I read I shall seal the heavens, the last book I finished was a will eternal. I love books like er gen' s since they're always different and I like your translations quite alot because the language barrier isn't as big when you do the translation. basically what I'm asking is, are there any of your own translations you would recommend for me
My current project is Sage Monarch but it's not like Er Gen's books so if you specifically want that, you might want to try "A World Worth Protecting" which is Er Gen's latest book, not translated by me
@@armandmeiring4384 Hope you enjoy it. It's kind of an old-school novel filled with a lot of the common tropes of Chinese fantasy novels. The MC is super OP and badass
In reading it sounds goofy to the person reading without much experience with novels I'd agree that translating this way is usually a disservice since it throws everything out of wack
@@Deathblade I'd say it depends on context When you want hight quality translation. Definitely When it's a lesser used, somewhat unimportant, phrase that most good translators will translate properly. Although id say there's generally a given reason for why something was translated a certain way That make sense?
About the closest English equivalent to this I can think of is 'son-ing' someone, but I don't think you can extrapolate that conversational process out of a single pronoun without diverging from translation into editorializing. I'd feel comfortable doing that in a script for a tv show, but somehow for a book it feels wrong.
Maybe best to invert it? Don't refer to the speaker as in a superior version but the one addressed as lesser. "I'm going to kill you like the pleb you are" sort of thing. Or just go full wrestling with "The Macho Man is going to kick your ass, yeah!".
@@Deathblade Huh... I always saw it that way, it's right there in the definitions and those are incredibly domineering and badass phrases when used with that intention in english... Too specific I guess.
@@priestesslucy I just mean "I'm your daddy" and "Call my daddy" do not really meet the criteria of what it's supposed to sound like in my opinion. "Your daddy" comments are all pretty silly and not intimidating or arrogant at all.
While I agree that having it sound silly when it isn't supposed to is a disservice to the story, I don't think your solution works well, either. Like it or not, the story was written in Chinese. To a Western audience, that _is_ exotic. Part of the appeal of reading these novels is getting a greater understanding of the culture they were written in, and stripping it of those cultural characterisitcs -- such as third person pronouns -- is in my opinion a mistake. My personal suggestion -- as someone who has worked a bit in translation, though not with novels -- would be to simply not translate the terms. Use the original Chinese for these third person pronouns, give a small explanation in a footnote the first time they appear in a story, and let people learn what it should read like. It won't be "proper English", no, but it also won't sound as silly as "I, your father". We already learn new terms (some of which you've covered in other videos). I know I would appreciate it more to know these culturally significant details. I often see translators add footnotes when a person changes their speech mid-story because it is relevant to the plot but which can't be accurately reflected in English, and honestly I'd rather just see them use the original term instead of adding footnotes every time it happens.
I disagree with your solution I have seen webnovels do this and it becomes extremely confusing, specially on a medium such as webnovels where you could spend weeks without reading a chapter only to come back and have to relearn all these terms. If it was one or two things it wouldnt matter but there are hundreds of terms and words with no direct translation.
@@omarct Most webnovels on WW update several times a week, if not a day -- but even if they didn't, just reading the new chapter should give most people enough context clues to remember the term when they encounter it. It wouldn't be hundreds of terms, either.
@@lDanielHolm Go read world of cultivation. It is the perfect example of what i mean. Also translation of webnovels can take years it is basically imposible for you to never take a break from reading it at some point.
@@lDanielHolm Thats a You thing. The average person has life to deal with. Important stuff will come up once in awhile and you have to drop videogames or other hobbies for a while. Personally, I usually take a week or 2 of vacation every year and have no access to the internet during that time.
I'm not a translator but personnaly I prefer the I, your father than to butcher the all text by changing what the writter wrote just for cultural meanings. I mean even if you speak the same language each country or province have their own cultural experience, so again, leave as it is and let people adapt to the culture the book was wrote for.
I have to disagree. in the world of the xianxia novels it is quite obvious that filial piety is extremely important to protagonists, so calling yourself their ancestor (seen versions like daddy or grandfather, besides father) is a clear insult. it is quite easy idiom to pick up, seems like you're being kind of elitist when it comes to transfering coined phrases between languages ;)
One thing I forgot to mention is that I actually used 老子 once in Chinese back in China. A guy tried to overcharge me for parking my scooter so I said "I'm not paying" using 老子, then just walked off. Lol.
So badass!
Classmate used it yesterday. Basically, we already had 8节课 and then suddenly out of nowhere a teacher writes in wechat that we are gonna have 3 extra 节 in 30 minutes. One dude got up, said 老子不上课 and left.
Sey Moore hahaha. Awesome.
@@Deathblade Hey deathblade theirs an original author who has wrote a book I think is good (Im just a fan and have no other relation with the book) and was wondering how she could get into contact with ww
Ps I plan to try and get that info to the author after this lol thanks
@@stealthchopper54 WW doesn't really do original stories nowadays, but the contact method is contactus@wuxiaworld.com nonetheless
I, YOUR GRANDFATHER DISAGREES WITH THIS.
Jokes apart, its a quite interesting thing to know. I've read that expression a lot and I don't find it strange anymore. In fact, in my mind it already has like an arrogant and domineering meaning. But yeah, if you read it in a non-sarcastic way is kind of funny
I, your father, approve this video.
Bahahahahahahaha
I can only wonder how crazy "Who's your daddy?" must sound if translated in reverse.
It is both ways!😂🤣🤣🤣
Luke i am your Father
No, I am your father.
luke has 2 dads that's really progressive
too often, i just roll my eyes at it, when i see it ...
Yeah exactly
I agree wholeheartedly with your philosophy. Translation is not about translating _words_ ; it's about translating _meaning_ . Taking it even further and, as you say it, translating the _experience_ is a fantastic way to put it. That means to translate the informational content of the text in conjunction with its carried nuance, tone of voice/emotion etc. Bravo!
I always thought that "I your father" was an insult because of the importance that chinese people put on family structure and generational authority. And so you are telling someone you have greater authority over them by being someone of the older generation that they have to bend their head to. Which is why I always liked hearing it and the idea of it made me chuckle. Especially when hearing it from a character that is several years younger from the person they're directing it to
This is a perfect example of how the wrong translation can lead to completely incorrect assumptions, because the expression has nothing to do with that.
Huh, I thought along those lines too...
I also had that assumption and I'm kinda sad to know that the mc isn't trying to abuse his seniority within that sect masters family
I too thought similar. Even if its wrong it feels tonally appropriate when I see it as a kind of verbal jab in a world that venerates seniority.
this was my thoughts exactly
My opinion on translation, and one of the biggest reasons I appreciate your hard work so much, is that translation should flow properly in the language that you are translating to, even if it means dropping off phrases that just don't translate well, or changing sentence structure so the meaning of the message, and the impact of the story, are both intact.
Completely agree with you about it being silly to stay "true" to the original language of the novel and not what the author was trying to convey.
I remember reading a Korean novel One Man Army and at one point the translator ended trying to keep the sentence structure or something else the same to be "true" to the korean novel. Just ruined it for me as it basically became a slightly better mtl.
Years ago, when I first started ISSTH, I was much more heavily on the side of "direct and accurate" and the narrative suffered because of it. I can hardly go back to read my early work because it's so clunky. I've changed a lot over the years...
"I, your Father" sounds kinda goofy and I thought of it as a bit weird at the beginning but I got used to it. Most of the time I figure out the kind of feeling the author wanted to convey from the context.
I've seen it a few times but the one time it made sense to me is in the novel "Otherworldly Evil Monarch" the MC was talking down to one of the three princes and basically changed his form of addressing himself like five times during his verbal tongue lashing, going from calling himself the guys son to ending with being his grate grand-dad. I don't know why but I was just lmao and thought the MC was cool and funny from that.
I read "this Daddy will spank you!" in a translation a while back, which made me laugh. I like it best when the term is left in pinyin as it adds more originality to the story and the translator can always put the definition in the notes (it's also a good way to learn common terminology).
I actually agree with you, a story should be translated to convey the meaning and expression. It's like when anime change a rice ball to a sandwich so that viewers can get the same emotional experience as a Japanese kid would.
But at the same time, I feel that readers can understand context. We can understand that it's arrogance and badassery. But, while we understand that, it's also something cool because it translates in such a funny way.
And it works because often times the MC replies "I don't remember having such a son" or something when the enemy says "I'll call you my father".
Like, we get that it's something from a different culture and that it's only funny because of it being a translation. We get that.
But it shows readers how important status and family hood is, but at the same time, we can see how silly translating stuff could be.
But I do agree that you are right and think that if you choose to translate in such a way, then that'd be better
I couldn't stop tearing up from laughter. Now my neck hurts 🤣🤣🤣
What if your actual father wants to beat you and you know that he is a bit of villain so he tends to monologue a lot?
I used to translates manhwas from English to Portuguese, and a lot of times I had to reformulate the whole sentence to make it make sense in my country
Quais novels tu traduzia?
Que novels você traduziu?
Thank you for another interesting video, DB! Also props to MDB for the editing, it's great :-)
Glad you enjoyed it. And she appreciates all the comments of thanks!
The one that pokes me in the eye is "This Daddy."
Chinese culture and language sure is interesting
I feel like "this lord" or "this [insert high title]" would be more fitting than "I, your father".
Conveying the meaning of an expression is better than literally translating it, that's the reason to use a human translators instead of of a machine.
The only time I can think of the English language using the third person might be when talking to your kid. Like “Come, give daddy a hug” or something. Sadly for translation purposes ‘daddy’ isn’t exactly intimidating
Yeah. Or maybe for humor purposes.
I think there is room for both translations. The more literal translations I feel, make the story seem more chinese and closer to the way it should feel even if it doesnt make perfect sense in english. Your mind adapts and you start thinking differently about the language. Trying to westernize the story by removing or changing certain literal translations can remove a lot of the uniqueness of chinese webnovels. I enjoy both types of translations as long as they are done well.
" I , your daddy "
now THAT is a translation that preserves the spirit of the original
i can't wait to come across this phrase next time with this video in mind now. thank you again for better insights into what is probably now my favorite hobby
Maybe the translator community or KOLs like you can set some standards for commonly used terms, phrases, and idioms.
Very interesting and insightful. I like your translation philosophy. Thanks for sharing. Also, great editing as usual! :)
I guess it would be more accurately translated as "this senior" or "I, your senior". Senior in this case meaning social superior
Another guidance received Patriarch! I always thought that this translation made them sound more arrogant but now I have been enlightened.
Me causaba risa cuándo lo leía "soy tu papi"
Dark Vader: I, your father
I think it really depends on setting/time period
My understanding is that family loyalty is super important in at least a lot of the novels as a result of Chinese culture. So when someone goes and tells someone 'I am your father' (paraphrased) it's almost saying that the other person should be begging for forgiveness, not just being scared or intimidated. At the same time if family holds significant weight in these settings then this insult/provocation will hit harder then average. Yes, I agree overall that its very... overused and is a crazy level of anti-immersion, but I'd say semi-regular based (as long as its appropriate for the story) are okay.
My ²Cents
Well maybe if it was translated just as "Your father", it always seemed more appropriate to me. I think it would be good to stick to some version of it because it keeps close to the culture. If it goes too close to the common English it loses that feel for an ancient Chinese culture. I guess it wouldn't hurt to change it completely if the story was set in a modern world.
im a hmong american, han chinese call us maio. IMO i think translator decide to use the direct translation cause they dotn want to lose the connotation of the phrase. i dont know how han chinese would use it nowadays back in china, but for us who left china for hundreds of years already, we still use it, and teh connotation of the phrase is the real message.
it has 2 or 3 bad connotation, and the time at which is it use will decide whcih connotation it is.
if it is use during an arguement, or vobal confrontation, it just mean that hes looking down on u from a higher social/lineage position.
if it use right b4 a physical confrontation, then it saying that hell spank you like your dad when u would young and u have no choice but to accept it
if it use during a confrotation which you are u losing but still putting up resisting, then what he trying to said it that " you mom already give in to him the nite b4, liek mother like son, you should give in too"
I think you're thinking way too much into it. It's more like the translators open the dictionary and use whatever seems easiest. Furthermore, virtually none of the translators in this scene are skilled writers to begin with.
Great video and topic! I usually omit the father part or when I have no choice, I go with "(Look son,) this daddy here's gonna beat you up!" There are some novels where this "Laozi/Laoniang" is the hallmark of a certain character and it's not possible to replace it while retaining the same effect.
When I first hear it I kind of infer that the meaning was like, putting the person down and asserting dominance due to the status of a father has over the son, especially when you take into account the cultural differences ie. filial piety. It's also an indirect way of saying that you fucked someone's mom :P
TL;DR I like the phrase and think it could make sense in English, but the phrasong is awkward. If it used "Daddy" instead of father I think they tone would be conveyed better.
Hmm, for me it always sounded the same as in russian (where similar phrase is used) "this daddy", but probably yes in english it should be translated as "I (your father) f*ked your mother".
Thank you, this expression (among others) is very very annoying and gets me out of the story every time, even if I'm used to it.
I've even seen that in actual western works mimicking Chinese fantasy novels, which adds another level of silliness to the story.
There is something also about people doing bad translations (and being proud of it!) on purpose to just "sound cool" that I always hated for the cringe effect it gives in far east novel translations (JP, KR, or CN). Very juvenile I guess. But that can completely ruin a good story, and is disrespectful for the original material and author intention.
I can't even imagine it being used in western works. Wow.
@@Deathblade Yeah, its like all the "-san, -sensai, -kun, -chan" that gets thrown into anime fan-fiction. EVEN WHEN the setting is a purely Western retelling. I guess its because its an easy shorthand to your characters getting "more friendly" with each other.
I prefer to learn what the saying means, I always like learning how a different cultures create insults and stuff. other wise i would read local fiction.
Same
That's the whole point of reading something from another culture
I'm outspoken on NUF about getting away from literal, even if it means disregarding the terms as a whole. Fool's a good use, but in some or possibly most cases, nothing sounds good and anything coming from it ultimately takes away from flow of the sentence. I don't even care if there are typos here and there, but broken or unnatural English that's painful to read, I can't.
I got used to the this father and this senior stuff like many years ago .
What about "This lord is going beat you to death"?
something like "i'm your daddy boy!"
or something like 老子什么都不怕 can be translated to "boy! i'm not afraid of anything"
"Who's your Daddy?"
Came for the correct translation of the term, stayed for the whole translation philosophy.
I think that at some point the brain will adjust and the stupidity of the frase will disappear. If I were to pick up a book and read "I, your father" used the same way it is used here I would think "they messed up the translation". After thousands upon thousands of chapters though many of these terms gain a specific meaning due to the context they are used in repeatedly so now to me when I find it in a translation it no longer comes off as silly. Of course this applies to all repeated translation mistakes but this one I honestly don't mind anymore.
hhhhh, One of wildly used dirty words in Chinese .
I think third-person address is valid in English in more cases than one might think.
"This humble servant has acquired a marvelous treasure, my lord." Here, the third person form of address diminishes the importance of the self in that statement. It is very formal and uncommon in modern speech, but keep in mind that most Chinese fantasy stories have a historical basis of some kind. It's okay to veer a bit from what's common, because unusual doesn't necessarily mean comical. But, on the comical side...
"Minister Feng has been hurt, betrayed, and abused by his people!" One can easily imagine an ineffectual official who is rather pompous and out-of-touch.
Being out-of-touch is not always comical, either. For example, a dragon could easily play up his otherworldly angle by saying something like "The King of Eastern Thunders greets you, mortal."
Yours truly watching this
Hi Deathblade! I love your videos but have you considered putting a very light background music over the entire thing? Just to add a bit of rhythm and make the transitions with the memes a bit less 'brutal' kind of. Keep up the good work though!
thanks for the input, I'll consider that
订阅了！这么晚才发现宝藏博主
That's part of the reason i stopped reading chinese novels/webnovels.
I've seen it as "daddy" or "your daddy" 😂 It's funny but you kinda know what they're trying to convey so when you're reading you can still feel the emotion.
I would say versions like that are definitely better than "I, your father", but they're still wildly missing the mark. I can never imagine a pissed off biker in a biker bar calling himself "your daddy" before pulling a switchblade and trying to kill you.
@@Deathblade I agree. I always looked at it as a cultural thing. What made it hit home was a machine translation of a fairly popular novel. The MC had referred to himself as "your daddy" and at some point took his opponents weapon and thanked him for being "filial" and it was cocky and bad ass. I don't know how it would translate but for that particular scene it worked.
whats the difference between calling yourself laozi or calling yourself ye (I think it gets translated as grandpa?)
lemons limes that’s an actual form of address that essentially means “master”. The “young master” is shao ye, and his father would be the “old master” lao ye. It is also the common word for grandfather.
The arrogance of the person considers himself to be at the level of the other person father who can beat him easily. since he is at that level maybe he is just saying to the other guy that He’s so badass that he can mop the floor using his opponent.
Just a expression of looking down at the opponent.
Well it’s just my opinion so I don’t expect agreement to it.
Thanks for your video DB.
I love your translation so keep your good work.
can anyone tell me what exactly was going on in the very beginning. this junior askes kindly of seniors
It's the kind of language you'd also use when you quit a horrible job with the horrible boss that thinks he's the shit. You say, Laozi bu gan le! Its supposed to communicate being fed up with the other person's behavior or just to establish you are not to be messed with. It's only used when you don't want to play nice.
I guess the equivalent would be something like calling the person you're talking to "sonny"?
So what about "This daddy of yours..." or "Daddy here..."? I might be biased with my English, since I read waaaaaaaay too many chinese novels in the past few years.
I mean, those might be better than "I, your father", but again, miss the mark. You're never going to here any tough guy saying that in an argument.
@@Deathblade So if I'm understanding correctly, it's arrogant but not intimidating, as it should be - it should be a subtle threat, not just an insult. I don't know, I'm not good at acting tough :p
Anyways, is it the same case when they use grandpa, or ancestor in the same way, or do those come from a different type of expression?
Just say "Whose your Daddy?" Instead
Hey DB, thanks for the video. Could you make one explaining how the word "star" is used? because sometimes I see it used to refer to an actual sun and sometimes to a planet, kinda confusing. thanks
Deathblade have you played the "immortal taoists" game that came out on app store? Was wondering what your thoughts would be on it if you had
I haven't but maybe I'll check it out.
*heavy breathing* no Luke. I, your father, am your father. Edit: darn, you beat me to it 😁
I you're father m use to it
You want to defenestrate yourself when you see it*
As well as Exsanguinate
I like the quirks and cultural aspects of different languages that I like when they're present in translated text. That works great when you're immersed in a story and knows the context that it is a chinese story.
So despite it being literal and sounding silly out in the wild, in my head it's a super confrontational and disrespectful in the story's culture.
I have seen it being translated as "this master" which looks better without losing the exotic feeling, although it is a bad translation, Translating it as 'father' just looks really silly.
I always thought that because so many Chinese fantasy protagonists value filial piety above everything else it is like the ultimate insult and form of arrogance for a character to put himself in the same position as our hero's parents
Nope.
Hi Deathblade, I really like your videos. I also translate Chinese Novels and had finished my first book last year and am working on the second one.
I have a very specific question: How do you translate the Chinese phrase : 不愧是. It can come in many forms: 大师不愧是大师，deathblade 不愧是 deathblade.
I saw people translate it as "Masters are really worthy of their title." which is...OK(?) but "Deathblade is really worthy of being called deathblade " will sound very odd. I usually translate it as "Masters are indeed powerful", or "Deathblade is indeed experienced."
I wonder how will you translate them?
Good question. That's definitely one that I have struggled with. It's hard to come up with something that carries the same meaning without having it be a really long sentence haha. It really depends on the context. I often find the term used as a reaction to someone doing something, in which case I will sometimes use "that's just what I would expect of X" or "X really lives up to his reputation" or some variation of those two. In other situations, I'll just play it by ear and come up with something that makes sense based on the context, such as your version. Hope this helps.
@@Deathblade Thanks! That helped a lot!
I often go with "As expected of a...!" or sometimes even "Truly a...!" depending on context xP
I 100% agree. Whenever I see things translated in a way that feels wrong, it makes me want to stop reading the translation. I couldn't care less if it follows the exact meaning of every single word, I want my stories translated in a way that makes sense and flows well. It's perfectly okay to rewrite sentences or even entire paragraphs to make them fit better in English. As long as it serves the same purpose in the plot and carries the same intent, the specific words don't matter.
It's like a difference in cultivation. A beginner can memorize and copy words, but a master can reproduce the original intent without using any of the same words. A master can produce sword intent in a painting, whereas a beginner can't even do it with a sword.
The sort of equivalent in Japanese is 俺さま "Ore-sama" an extremely self-important and boastful way to refer to yourself. I don't think anyone would ever say it in real life. It doesn't have any direct meaning so we don't get the "I your father" problem. A common translation is to have the character title themselves, e.g. "I, the magnificent so-and-so, shall defeat you easily."
deathblade do you have any suggestions for me, I just finished renegade immortal, followed by pursuit of truth,then I read I shall seal the heavens, the last book I finished was a will eternal. I love books like er gen' s since they're always different and I like your translations quite alot because the language barrier isn't as big when you do the translation. basically what I'm asking is, are there any of your own translations you would recommend for me
My current project is Sage Monarch but it's not like Er Gen's books so if you specifically want that, you might want to try "A World Worth Protecting" which is Er Gen's latest book, not translated by me
Deathblade since it's your project I'll read it too, I doubt any of the things you work on would not be enjoyable
@@armandmeiring4384 Hope you enjoy it. It's kind of an old-school novel filled with a lot of the common tropes of Chinese fantasy novels. The MC is super OP and badass
thanks deathblade I'm enjoying sage monarch
In reading it sounds goofy to the person reading without much experience with novels
I'd agree that translating this way is usually a disservice since it throws everything out of wack
Yeah, people do get used to it. But that in itself is kind of sad.
@@Deathblade I'd say it depends on context
When you want hight quality translation. Definitely
When it's a lesser used, somewhat unimportant, phrase that most good translators will translate properly.
Although id say there's generally a given reason for why something was translated a certain way
That make sense?
You make a very good point.
I need to know what those books are in the background. Pls
That is my original wuxia novel. You can get it on amazon: amzn.to/2MSlGiH
I know its a little out of age, but is the same thing whem some charachter say ''I am your uncle''?
Yes, there are a lot of common variations.
thanks deathblade
Armand Meiring my pleasure !
About the closest English equivalent to this I can think of is 'son-ing' someone, but I don't think you can extrapolate that conversational process out of a single pronoun without diverging from translation into editorializing. I'd feel comfortable doing that in a script for a tv show, but somehow for a book it feels wrong.
son-ing something is actually more endearing than boying someone.
I have got used to it, and it takes on a arrogant tone in my head.
Maybe best to invert it? Don't refer to the speaker as in a superior version but the one addressed as lesser. "I'm going to kill you like the pleb you are" sort of thing. Or just go full wrestling with "The Macho Man is going to kick your ass, yeah!".
Yeah, totally agree with this
But isn't changing the context bad? I like it when translaters give us the story raw.
It's just the Chinese version of "I'm your daddy" or "Call me daddy"
No, it's not.
@@Deathblade Huh... I always saw it that way, it's right there in the definitions and those are incredibly domineering and badass phrases when used with that intention in english...
Too specific I guess.
@@priestesslucy I just mean "I'm your daddy" and "Call my daddy" do not really meet the criteria of what it's supposed to sound like in my opinion. "Your daddy" comments are all pretty silly and not intimidating or arrogant at all.
Dude, please make "MT. TAI" talk..
Nvm, u did already. Thanks
While I agree that having it sound silly when it isn't supposed to is a disservice to the story, I don't think your solution works well, either. Like it or not, the story was written in Chinese. To a Western audience, that _is_ exotic. Part of the appeal of reading these novels is getting a greater understanding of the culture they were written in, and stripping it of those cultural characterisitcs -- such as third person pronouns -- is in my opinion a mistake.
My personal suggestion -- as someone who has worked a bit in translation, though not with novels -- would be to simply not translate the terms. Use the original Chinese for these third person pronouns, give a small explanation in a footnote the first time they appear in a story, and let people learn what it should read like. It won't be "proper English", no, but it also won't sound as silly as "I, your father". We already learn new terms (some of which you've covered in other videos). I know I would appreciate it more to know these culturally significant details. I often see translators add footnotes when a person changes their speech mid-story because it is relevant to the plot but which can't be accurately reflected in English, and honestly I'd rather just see them use the original term instead of adding footnotes every time it happens.
I disagree with your solution I have seen webnovels do this and it becomes extremely confusing, specially on a medium such as webnovels where you could spend weeks without reading a chapter only to come back and have to relearn all these terms. If it was one or two things it wouldnt matter but there are hundreds of terms and words with no direct translation.
@@omarct Most webnovels on WW update several times a week, if not a day -- but even if they didn't, just reading the new chapter should give most people enough context clues to remember the term when they encounter it. It wouldn't be hundreds of terms, either.
@@lDanielHolm Go read world of cultivation. It is the perfect example of what i mean. Also translation of webnovels can take years it is basically imposible for you to never take a break from reading it at some point.
@@omarct No, it isn't "basically impossible". I have been reading WW novels for years now, and followed several novels to completion.
@@lDanielHolm Thats a You thing. The average person has life to deal with. Important stuff will come up once in awhile and you have to drop videogames or other hobbies for a while. Personally, I usually take a week or 2 of vacation every year and have no access to the internet during that time.
I'm not a translator but personnaly I prefer the I, your father than to butcher the all text by changing what the writter wrote just for cultural meanings. I mean even if you speak the same language each country or province have their own cultural experience, so again, leave as it is and let people adapt to the culture the book was wrote for.
I have to disagree. in the world of the xianxia novels it is quite obvious that filial piety is extremely important to protagonists, so calling yourself their ancestor (seen versions like daddy or grandfather, besides father) is a clear insult. it is quite easy idiom to pick up, seems like you're being kind of elitist when it comes to transfering coined phrases between languages ;)
Lol. Alright. Except that's not the function of the phrase, even in xianxia novels.
Maybe the translator community or KOLs like you can set some standards for commonly used terms, phrases, and idioms.