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@@745ga what did i say, haha

@@idontknow12383 yeah it took me by suprise because the train was packed and we had to stand up near the doors for the first part of the journey. Id guess its like a safety mechanism. If you look towards the end of the video youll see it moving a little. I show it for a few seconds

The 158s generally ride quite well. 80X ride quality is not bad but it is hit-or-miss. 377 and 387 have the worst ride quality in my experience

@@SWTE728 yeah i guess that makes sense. Also account for the fact that one of the IET carriages use inner frame bogies so may have some variable suspension

And at that I don't even think the engines are that loud in comparison to other DMUs, last time I was sat in the motor coach with the engine running the loudest sound was probably a deep hum from the air conditioning!

@@SWTE728 Oh yes 153s are really loud lol

​@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf well tbh they are only loud for the early phase of speed. Also That sort of proves that people dont mind the motors because they create a smooth noise . They sound nice tbh. But theyd sound better if they had a larger gear ratio like the 395s.

@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf Can confirm the 153s are ridiculously loud, like a washing machine on rails! 😂 150s can also be a bit loud, but still easier on the ears than the former. Speaking of, I do find the suspension on these older Sprinters flawless though from my experience.

@@SWTE728 Yep, sprinters ride well at speed. Some of the best DMUs at speed.

@@williamhuang8309 the screech you are hearing is the carrier frequency, its actually called random carrier frequency modulation, or RCMF. It sounds like someone Polishing a window rapidly. Or a steam decompressing . Its so ugly sounding. I agree with you also about how i used to also dislike the S stock until i could hear the motor and gearbox whines REALLY go at higher speeds. I dont actually think the motor and gearbox frequencies are annoying if they are at a good volume and blend nicely. Most customers dont seem to care. If anything the smoothenss of the as stock is like listening to soothing ambient background noise and also creates a nice taste of speed via the sound. I dont see how it can be annoying personally unless its too loud. I cant stand UK traction specs now, The UK rail specs make me puke now with its newer super silent hypersensitive, bullshit train sound dampening man, and the tiny gear ratios they use that make super high pitched quiet sounds and fade out of hearing range quick🤮🤮...like other countries arent that sensntive why the UK? Like people arent that sensitive man its usually the track run noises that are loud not the motors /gearbox. Modern Bombadier and Desiros in the UK are a good example of shit sounding trains, by comparison to desiros and bombadier (now alstom) stock in germany..they sound EPIC!! Desiro HC and Talent 2s comes to mind. German desiros just TAKE THE CAKE!!. uk desiros have been tuned because manufacturers think passengers ears will bleed from the traction....that just isnt the case🤨🤨 We need these man Talent 2 sound ruclips.net/video/PHp3LXfVdSY/видео.htmlsi=-Zjfv0cbuaMby_-n Desiro HC ruclips.net/video/xg0jM7ztGLY/видео.htmlsi=Wtre5GP7XoL2t8Xv

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 The carrier frequency modulation thing is apparently to reduce frequency harmonics and noise on the power supply. While that's one benefit, I can't see it as being a very big issue since literally every other tube stock including the 2009 stock which shares the same VF drive doesn't have this. Trains with audible motor/track noise do feel faster even when they're travelling at the same speed as a train that's basically silent; quiet trains feel sluggish and slow even with strong acceleration, whilst louder trains feel faster. And the trains don't need to be earrape levels of loud; the Mark 3 stock was quite loud and I see why some passengers may find it irritating, but that doesn't mean the trains need to be silent. Melbourne's Comeng trains are an example of a train with a distinctive gearbox growl that's not overbearing. (also it has rheostatic braking which sounds better, regen/dynamic braking sounds on trains tend to sound more epic than acceleration sounds imo) Car manufacturers will purposely add speakers into cars to make the engine seem louder and make the car feel faster, so why don't train manufacturers let a bit of noise through to make their trains feel faster too? Passengers don't like trains feel slow either. The design of trains has really fallen off a cliff; GA's Aventras have 2+3 seating (which would be fine if the trains were wider but loading gauge prevents that), no motor sounds, ironing boards, horrible ride quality and an interior ambiance that's way too bright at night. Thanks to the DfT I guess.

@williamhuang8309 on the power supply ? I guess the style of generated frequencies may impact power supply on some units. I guess it depends on the type of carrier frequency. Random carrier frequencies are still aweful..the talent 2 is an exception thouhg (if you saw the video i linked) Also consider that talent 2s have motor noise but also have random carrier frequency . And yeah i agree. Many car manufacturers make cars with some room for sound. If anything it shows most passengers who arent car enthusiast dont care as much and probably wont mind noise. So the same could be said for traction on trains. Infact most gearbox /motor harmonics are blended in a very satisfying way. Mk 3 coaches or second gen class 317s/ 319s etc had some loud coaches sometimes, however There were the variations that werent all that loud. That being said the gear ratios enabled the gearbox to mirror the audiable synchronous sounds of the motor/inverter ( that" omm" noise on the electrostars or other trains like the 465s) this is why 317s /321/317s sounded epic. Large gears seemed to be used plus using straight cut gears also. Japan have similar large gear ratios that enable the deepes sounds also even with AC motors. That being said you could hypothetically design a train with AC motors and using similar gear ratios to mimic the classic sounds of the class 319s/317s etc. Again its a shame the UK has the shittiest sounding modern trains so far. Exceptions to this are Class 331s Class 745s esspecially Class 385s (only because the motor echoes the synchronous frequencies louder the gearbox is some small ish gear ratio with teeny gears that you can barely hear) And as we mentioned trains traction dont need to be super quiet just not hyper loud.

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Not too sure on the specifics of power supply noise but again, it doesn't seem like a major issue given that the S stock and Aventras are the only trains with this feature. The desiros do a similar thing with the UFO noises (oscillating carrier frequency) but at least that's unique and not irritating unlike a screech

@@SamT thanks man. I use Droid dashcam app. Its a samsung app. Or android app. I was gonna say feel free to use this video or any of my videos for sound recordings on your DLCs man. They are amazing. Also, It just sucks that this isnt the default for 700s loudness. I hate how quiet siemens train are in the UK. Siemens drives generally are overly quiet in the UK . In Germany they are nice and rich in sound!! But thanks for watching !!

@@TrainLifeGB yeah. 700s are 100mph max speed. Also class 701s are younger than class 700s, class 701s being 5 years old is still super new for a train. They arent gonna go any where for another 30 years or so. Class 700s are around 6 to 8 years old

​@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 yeah I was just messing about the 701s age and all that. I still personally don't like them, and that opinion will not change. I do prefer the 455s or even the 707s.

Yeah its because the class 701s dont have audiable traction motors. They are way to quiet. They could have had a similar gear ratio to a class 730 and then had the gear cogs scales up for 110mph. This means they may make more sound. Instead they have the same boring motor/gearbox sounds as a class 720...eww ​@@TrainLifeGB

​@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 SWR sucks now mate, the only thing that's enjoyable about it for me is riding class 455s while we have them, at least they actually make sound. Then again who knows, maybe the 701/5 will be better as it is 5 cars which means less weight for better acceleration. Soundwise it would be the same though.

​@@TrainLifeGBthe ckass 458/4s are nice too. But yeah. 701s are pretty fast already. But they could be quicker admittedly

Because it had identical set up to electrostar at the back of every driving car. And the inner motor car It' goes like this Driver car: Under drivers cab bogie=unpowered .back bogie = powered/motored Toilet car Front and back bogie is unpowered no motor Motor car The bogie closest to the toilet car is the motored bogie The bogie farthest away is the unpowered bogie. Driving coach B Bogie at the back of the driver car is the motored /powered bogie Bogie under the drivers car is unpowered. That's it basically.

@ does this apply to the aventras

@Westlondontransportguy7045 sort of. And not really . Only the driving coach it applies too. The next carriage after that has motors right after it , but closest to the drivers carriage. Then after that it's sort of unpredictable. I can do the research myself but aventras confuse me at the moment .

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 i might wanna try that out on the 345

@@Westlondontransportguy7045 yep do try. They are really quiet though. 730s are the louder aventras tbh. And the 710s etc

Still could have been better and had upgrades done to it, I believe acceleration wise they beat the class 442 though, and like you said, the Class 450. Also I believe those are the 442 seats right?

@TrainLifeGB the class 458a could have easily had a power boost of some mild increase. It accelerates too much like a locomotive. It needs to acceleration like an EMU. that's a flaw south western rail always has. Underpowered trains that can't go anywhere. The 701s and 707s were the only modern exceptipn

​@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 south western railway have the money to do it, they are simply too lazy to do it and simply want the money for themselves. They couldn't care less about the customers, they don't care that the 701s are faulty as hell. As long as they get their money, whatever happens with their underpowered trashcans doesn't concern them.

​@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 yeah the 458s aren't suited for PDL services nor were they ever meant to be, at this rate 450s aren't leaving the PDL until a suitable replacement is found as these trains are going to be stuck on goddamn suburban commuter services.

@@aviation_lover___2 I barely remember but it was towards London here

@@745ga nice😂💁🏾‍♂️thanks man

Agreed The Class 730s are the best aventra to be produced. It sucks 701s are my locals. Sucks the 701s will never reach max speed on the services they will work on. Also I assume the reason for 730 motors being audible is less insulation?

​@@TrainLifeGB Yeah man I agree. The 701s front ends actually look best. But it's a shame they are so quiet (the motor and gearbox) very boring tbh. Also on the one hand, I don't think class 701s have more insulation they do have slightly different gearboxes and likely a slightly different motor they have a more pronounced humming noise which may be linked to a louder motor shaft ventilation Fan on the class 730s. Even then the motor is more audiable around 50mph (at 0:47 for example) sounds amazing 😊🎉 That being said , when these trains first surfaced , I Spoke to an alstom worker who said these are more similar to a class 710s build. So maybe that's why they are louder but i don't think they have less insulation than class 701s. This also means class 710s are 90mph capable in theory and have louder motor/gearbox sounds too. 😊😊

@@syedmahidalam1349 it's probably some sort of motorised machine under it. Or cooling system etc. Maybe is a generator.. who knows

@@IVA4651 line speed restrictions. And probably due to old Infrustructure as you mentioned. The uk government just leave things the same until the last second. They use their money on useless stuff it would seem instead of improving line speed or Infrustructure etc

They do and they don't at the same time. 730s are a little louder and have slightly different gear ratio

@@TrainsAreBetterThanDriving these are 720s my friend

@@TheUnknown313 that is an interesting point, I wonder why they didn't.

​@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 I think it's because Bombardier officially stopped making the Class 378's? Not sure on that, but that's what I heard. Great capture btw! Forgot to say that in my original comment.

@@TheUnknown313 it's probably the case however I'd wager they could have easily done it if they had been asked to make them time before .

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 I fully agree tbh. Look how long they’ve been developing the Class 377’s. Last been the 377/6’s and 7’s.

@@TheUnknown313 387s were the last I believe, could've easily made an avetra hybrid or a 387/377 with inner framed bogies on the trailer and outer framed bogies for the power bogies. That with the addition of some easier structural mods to make it lighter via the body shell without having to go through too much extensive development and saving time. This was a thing done slightly on the class 172s. Lighter inner framed bogies. But turbostar (modified) body. This means that they could save weight with a slightly even more developed electrostar

@@Westlondontransportguy7045 it was loud naturally. The trains being outside the tunnels meant the motors were the loudest thing to hear as you don't have the tunnels echoing all the air rushing/track rumbling sounds, the ballast (stones) outside also dissipate the sound alot more so the motors are very pronounced and all the added tunnel sound is quiter as it isn't inside a tunnel to begin with, lool this is exactly why I waited until I got to the surface level to film

@@railwaymedialondon nice your welcome !!

@@IVA4651 dw 20 is alot compared to 12..which some fleets are comprised of

@@IVA4651 I wasn't bothered to get up and sit back down that's why🤣

@@supertram103 somewhat, gear ratio wise, no. They are similar but the gear ratios are somewhat different .

@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 are they thanks for telling me that information that's interesting to hear I noticed on 334 001 in particular it sounds slightly different to the rest in the class

@@Westlondontransportguy7045 I've been. Trying .the lines Always busy .eventually though

@@Westlondontransportguy7045 agreed , i think it's because tread brakes/calliper brakes aren't as needed for main braking and are probably less required for lubricant. I could be wrong , their only really used at lower speeds before stopping, or halting the train entirely.

@@SN06BNF lool yeah I modifed it from train sim to have NSE livery

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 It Would Be Cool If The Electrostars Had NSE Livery IRL Too

@@SN06BNF yep I agree! If you want to see it In detail you can zoom in by selecting my profile then clicking on the image again

@@edmonddaramy-williams625 classic electric multiple unit war cry!! Its like a modern class 317! None of this hyper quiet modern shiyt like the aventras.

@@FarmYard-Trains hahaha lool , it is nice. I have a mewer 745 video of you want to see it.

@@apotato5563 they are actually underrated in terms of power by at least 400kw-500kw. They have 8 motors to compensate for the 5 cars. Vs 6 motors for 4 cars. Under the wires, 377 can use more power because theres much more available. The problem with these 5 car ones is they don't have the same number of parts/windings/ electrical components to feed AC voltage & Amps with enough power for 5 cars so they cant use more power. They only uptake the power of ampage for a 4 car sized train because they lack additional electrical components for the 5 car set up. Something to do with additional electrical windings missing for 5 car trains. So what happens is, all the motors get powered, but its spread thin to 8 motors. Lets say 1500kw is the max output of a 4 car in AC. The 5 cars are still outputing1500kw on AC and similarly on 3rd rail because they cant physically take up more power on AC. If the 5 cars could use the full capacity of their motors , theyd output 2000kw and not 1400kw-1500kw Hence the tardy acceleration on AC. The 5 cars are slightly faster than 4 car electrostars on DC though. Which is funny

@@Electrostarboi207 it does

@@edmonddaramy-williams625 ruclips.net/video/2g4jh6ceEV4/видео.htmlsi=kXSp30WBr16j4W4s Try this one out and i agree. Stanstead express actually has 10 coaches. So they may be a bit faster accelerating.

@@SmoIchopper with some hellfire traction drive sounds!!!! And they are indeed it would seem too.

​@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sfnice!! And BRELs do range wildly in noise and acceleration. Not sure why. Most of the noise is air funneling through the motor. The higher pitched screams are the motor/gear drives themselves.

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 I uploaded a video of it to my channel

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 I also timed a 375/6 which was much faster than the BREL 465

@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf of course they are. 375s were designed with good motor to gear ratio/power output in mind. No suprise there 🤣 Im sure BRELs have the same power output as a class 456 (as they were faster than 455s by a smidge) Or a bit higher. Not sure why BREL decided to be so minimalist with power ratings for the BRELS.