TF2's Movement is a Buggy Mess
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- DISCORD: / discord
TWITTER: / htwogamedesign
SECOND CHANNEL: ruclips.net/channel/UCOdX...
Thumbnail inspo: / creemsmile
Ildprut Jump Tech Document: www.dropbox.com/s/jr00chyg20v...
FOOTAGE:
Sketchek stuck video: • the cone zone
lots o' jumpbugs: • [TF2] Jumpbug 2: No F...
Tomato Tom Jumpbug: • JUMPBUG
Tomato Tom Edgebugs: • edgebugs for 2 minutes
Tomato Tom Texturebug: • texturebug
Tomato Tom Linuxbug: • linux bug
VAVLIE Linuxbug: • jump_and hole with Lin...
3kliksphilip pixelsurf: • The Science of Pixel-S...
THE WARPED BUG: • Warped_Bug
Antoni clips: • TF2 Pros & Streamers R...
Spy Launch Clip: • Vaudeville Villainess
if I missed any footage links please let me know so I can update this description :))
0:00 Intro
0:40 Crouching for Rocket Jumps
2:47 C-tap
5:32 Ctapping makes you SHORTER?!
8:36 The Impossible Hole
9:13 Pixel Walk
10:22 Pixel Surf
14:04 Wallbug
19:22 Avoiding Fall Damage:
19:48 Edgebug!!
20:59 Texturebug
22:58 Rampslides
23:41 Jumpbug
27:29 The Trampoline
30:16 TICK PERFECT SANDVICH
30:52 Infinite Range Flamethrower
31:50 Stuck Launch
33:56 Outro 
Игры
![[TF2] Would Source 2 Even Help?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SYMZMEKr5nA/mqdefault.jpg)
Forgot to put ildprut's movement doc in the description at first but its there now go look at it!
*i wounder about 2007 version. and 2006 version. because 2007 version. when you try rocket jump. you can bunnyhop it too. Rare Great Fact.*
Ildprut is 2 Danish (I'm assuming) words combined which are fire and fart. That should explain his profile picture. And the Danish pronunciation is nothing like how you did in the video.
this document is something that ive hoped exists for a while now, you and ildprut have just saved me a massive amount of reading source code by myself. big thanks
Shush and come dmix
Love this video. Ok some vsh custom maps they have a cone that you can also get stuck in by just shoving it with a sticky into yourself and you can do the same thing with the trampoline and flame thrower
Hitbox's buggy
Weight aint heavy
There's jank in his movement already, source's spaghetti
my clips are sweaty
yer funny lad
You missed a line
@@jojobod i had some ideas in mind for the first line but i didnt like any of em much, i like "clips are sweaty" from the first guy though
Was listening to meat grinder and read this 😭
After 9 years in development, hopefully, it will have been worth the wait.
9 years with so much quirks an fun, yes it was worth
Thanks, and have fun.
Bro botted his comments likes
After 9 years in development, spy.
And my favorite class is the spy.
The idea that soldier crouches to lessen his weight in order to effectively rocket jump at peak height is genuinely funny to me
It LITERALLY sounds like his own logic, doesn't it?
As if he's explaining how he would do this in a real life setting
*soldier laugh* "You see heavy, I crouch before jumping with my rockets to reduce my weight!"
"it dont work like that"
"Yes it do"
there is enough spaghetti in this video to solve world hunger
Based
@@HellnawNaw-zq2jxand spaghetti pilled
I thought the center of your bounding box being closer to the explosion amplifies how much damage and knockback you take from it, which is why ctapping works. Not because you actually weigh less when the box is smaller. Getting miniaturized by a spell or server plugins also lets the center of your bounding box get much closer to explosions and lets you get a lot of distance from rocket or sticky jumping.
both the centre of your bbox being closer to an explosion and your character weighing less have an effect on the knockback
I've been under the interpretation that the center of the bounding box doesn't have anything to do with it, because in the context that it does, what is the caber's problem? It doesn't do directional knockback like other weapons only shooting you straight up (implying the explosion is more central), and does max damage if you hit somebody in the foot with it
I was under the impression it was because, while being in a crouching animation, gravity is set to 0 for like 1 tick or frame. That’s how max height crouchjumps work, but I guess the Ctap is as he said.
@ id assume that the devs made an exception or added specific code for it otherwise all other melees would have similar effects.
my guess and assumption
But he said that in the video
Ah, its finally been explained. As a map maker, I often find myself getting stuck on the edges of slopes that I have made out of clip brushes that are supposed to be there to *prevent* that sort of thing from happening, whether vertically or horizontally. And whenever it happens I can never recreate it! I've been playing the game for 11 years now so my movement is so intuitive that I don't even think about what I'm doing anymore, but now that I know all I have to do is spam a and d, this should help a lot. I think the easiest way to fix this on maps now is just to have the "tip" of an angled clip brush go inside the wall 1hu.
back when teletraps were possible on slopes it was way easier to do stuck launches, just get into your own trap and destroy the entrance when you had enough speed
i remember doing that on cp_orange all the time, lots of fun
tele traps are no longer possible ? i thought they were still possible
@@rachelslur8729tele destroys itself when players stuck at it
@@user-lh3qy1xb7s would be a problem if someone found a bug that lets you to get stuck at your engineers teleporter in a way that destroys it to troll your own team or maybe for even a spy to silenly destroy a teleporter without a sapper or decloaking...
@@StilvurBee:(
I think one reason why there is a very small gap between the player and the wall in Source was mentioned in a video where some devs of half-life 2 watched a modern speed run of it. One of the dev’s mentioned while developing the engine that one bug they ran into with calculating the players movement was if a player kept walking into a wall, you’d end up building up momentum incredibly quick before dying from impact by the games calculations and all the velocity you built up.
Some form of it is still in Half-Life 2 where at the start of the game with the moving train you run across. You get pushed across by a trigger to the other side safely once, but if you get back on the train again with no push trigger now you’ll stand there for a few seconds and get crushed from the train pushing you into the wall while building up your velocity.
I don't have any insight on source case specifically, but him saying that the concept of keeping a small gap between the collision bodies in a physics engine is dated sounds like gibberish. People are so hasty to explain any technical weirdness in tf2 as an "old games thing", but it still works the same in modern games, like how you specify a "skin width" on a character controller in unity, it's the same thing.
It's just an efficient way to make sure the objects aren't intersecting due to a floating point error and nothing has changed in the way floats are stored in memory since half life.
@@itch433 Yeah many devs still use very hacky stuff to keep things working. On a Stalker video it was mentioned where if they don’t add Demon Sidorovich into a level in the beta then the game would break and cause crashes, and some modern indie devs do this still.
@@baconandx1858I had a friend do some stuff in htlm about 17 years ago, we had an issue and instead of finding the fuckup, we just decided to copy an older template that worked and manually adapt it by pasting in code from the broken template line by line
The internet is held together by literal bandaid solutions that constantly break in new ways and I love how it defines humanity
that happened in the og doom games
It's really crazy to see the work I did several years ago for pixel surfs still being somewhat relevant, you did a great job explaining how specific they are.
Me and some trade minecraft buddies ended up finding that trampoline bug a few months back and nicknamed it the "trade minecraft space program". Its possible in neonheights by using a team taunt to jam someone in the enemy teams respawn room visualizer, and possible in realms by jamming yourself into a wall or floor using the minecarts.
Very cool to see theres spots in official maps that support their own space program!
the video shown at 29:12 is my video, and its kind of crazy the same one was shown in both yours and elmaxo's video on spy haha
Kind of wish i was asked beforehand or at least credited in the description but still cool to see
Seems like you've been added to the description now :)
This is like the highest level tf2 video Ive ever seen. Excellent not only for the showcase but your explanations. I had no idea there was actual technique to some of these bugs. I thought a lot of the wall bugs were luck. 10/10
The Linux bug seems similar to how TF2 servers give you a different amount of ammo on Linux servers. If I can recall, that was because of some C++ functionalities in GCC (a C++ compiler for Linux or some Windows binaries through something like MinGW) handling floating point numbers or math a bit differently.
It's kind of horrifying that the the compilation is os-dependent given that usually this game has a game server on Linux talking to game clients ON WINDOWS. How does this game even work when the client and server keeps disagreeing on basic maths?
Not HP, ammo. And honestly Linux servers are the standard, Windows servers have stuff that isn't the way it should be. All Valve servers are on Linux.
@@agrastiOs thanks for the correction. Will update my comment.
@@asj3419compilation being OS dependent is kinda just the reality of compilers, though in this case I assume they probably don't compile with the options for maximum float compliance or whatever, causing the compilers to slightly change how they choose to order stuff. Things like fused multiply-add could also (in theory, haven't read up) have different accuracy implications at like the 10th decimal place or something, and some compilers might use them and others not.
@@terradoom8503 Apparently there are multiple floating point instructions that compute to different precisions, and that's how the healthpack bug happens (shounic did a video on it). I know that it's practically unavoidable but physics really should be fully consistent and deterministic if the game is multiplayer like this. The question really is how the hell one would do such a thing.
Thank you for making this video! I remember a while back I was trying to find resources on jumpbugs and texturebugs and there wasn't anything useful. But no longer!
I love this, I've been waiting for a video like this summarizing all the source movement/physics bugs for a loong time...
Thank you
Great video! Really appreciate all the explainations. A bunch of the tick related bugs can't really be catered for I think, pretty much every game works via a tick system and checking for something the next tick or what have you is unavoidable
I'm positively surprised how... well surprising even the first one was. I was thinking like yeah this video won't explain anything new to me but I'll give it a watch but I always thought crouching just makes your center closer to explosion but now that I know that it's weight, it makes so much more sense.
Why do I recognise that thumbnail...
Its 3 boxes with white text...
seems familiar
i gotta mention that the music choices in this vid are awesome. you somehow got two tracks from both my all time fav games (a short hike & rain world) and that's just so dope
Great video! Amazing edits, also!
the fact that you demonstrated something on jump_demonstrationman is funny
27:48
Oh hey, I used to do something that I called *The Trampoline* that was basically a super simple version of this that almost worked everywhere. Some time ago as Engineer, you were able to place a teleporter exit below a teleporter entrance on a slope. This, of course, would get you stuck in the entrance because you'd teleport into it from the exit. Then you could get infinitely give yourself knockback with a sentry and heal off the damage with a dispenser.
I remember letting my friends trampoline off my head in front of first Blu spawn in Upward.
Man, if I knew that weight loss was as simple as just crouching, I would've done it more often.
It is.
Just do some squats
Thank you for making a video like this, this knowledge takes thousands of hours of SOURCE ENGINE (in its entirety, all versions too, some engines carry over certain bugs in the movement) movement. I love it but sometimes people don’t know about the techniques and assume it to be a script of some kind. Hats off to you man, for showing that yes, it is very possible. And with time and effort put into it, can be done very very reliably. (No matter what movement tech it is, edgebug, ctapping, etc)
I literally did not know most of these things... great video man, you earned a sub. looking forward to more videos in the future
The level of in-depth knowledge in this video is insane, very informative and useful! One thing I wanted to know though, are you able to explain how ctapping in shallow water can propel your rocket jumps even further?
I love the white text highlighted with magenta using a very stark, sharp font.
This video's wicked sick! You've earned my sub.
Question, though: do we get a full, in-depth maths episode or not? I'm a bit of a nerd myself so I enjoy hearing about the maths whenever possible.
Wow so much stuff I genuinely didn’t know. The first thing about crouching and mass is blowing my mind. So much time playing source games and I just didn’t know that. Great video.
I'm like halfway through the video and already know it's an ingenious creation- well done friend
"This just in, a source engine game is jank, no one is surprised more at 11"
Enjoying these TF2 vids mate, takes me back!
did you know that on some maps with angled displacements, you can actually climb the meshes to do what's known as a pixel ladder? i assume it has to do with the pixel walk glitch in some way but given that it's a displacement, you can jump across the entire mesh that displacements have
absolutely lovely video, and lovely music selection :)
The 0.03125 unit offset at 7:30 also has so e weird collision with the raycasting code used for hitscan weapons, as it can let you shoot through walls where box and non-box map brushes touch each other (for corners face more towards the non box brush, opposite for wall intersections)
Thank you, you put a new pov to my tf2 knowledge appreciated
Nice video! I normally click off these types of videos because most TF2 youtubers have such an ego it’s cringe, but your video was just a good informative video. You really dove deep into this!
I heard "the fire is gone." Also great video.
Thanks for the ultrakill music, right as i started taking a break from that soundtrack lmao
I'd love it if you made a 2nd video with all the maths explained!
Actually very nice video explaining a lot of useful things and covering this theme completely*
*I really wanted to see more maths behind this, sure that's not going to be super boring, but for another video (on the second channel or whatever) - is going to be great
Anyways, deserves a like and subscribe!
Ok now we need an hour long video filled with wall bug clips
Holy shit, this has to be the best explanation video for TF2 movement in the internet so far.
Seriously, despite playing this game for a decade, I never knew that making bounding box smaller by crouching makes you weigh less. And that's the reason why CTap was possible? Jesus, unreal.
12:05 Ori music? In a tf2 source spaghetti video? Instant subscribe.
Ive done the trampoline tech before on Engi. There use to be a bug where you make trap teleporters on slopes that would get players stuck, its patched now as far as I know. I would get myself stuck and then damage myself with the Wrangler to activate the jump bug.
You used to be able to do the stuck launch on a ramp where you built the teleporter entrance on top of the exit, when you use the teleporter you would get stuck and then build up momentum with for example a mini sentry.
Some of these (edgebug and wallbug in particular) are also present in GoldSrc. These are often used in climbing maps or 'Hide n Seek' gamemode. The difference is that GoldSrc' servers are frame-based, so your own FPS matters a lot in how it will perform. For example, it's not really possible to get stuck on a wall like seen in TF2, you will always fall albeit using the strafing to stop the momentum (at least from my own experience).
Great video, great channel. This is the best jump content on youtube.
great video, knew the tech but I'm glad to now know how it all works under the hood, cheers!
I will watch every video about tf2 or momentum mod on your channel
As someone coming back to tf2 after playing csgo for a while, this is very helpful. I would love to get more details in particular for how bunny jumping, runboosting, ladder boosting etc work in tf2.
Ah yes, my favorite long-ranged class: the Pyro
My face when a video game engine made in 2004 combined with messy code makes buggy movement
I been learning Soldier for a while and i couldnt get rocket jumping to be as good as everyone else does.. but findind this video explains so much.. now i think i have to bind my crouch to another key to make it easier everytime i do rocket jump
I love this video, thanks for the knowledge 😁
You can also put a teleporter under your sentry to get stuck in it in certain spots like stairs, similar to the old teletrap exploit
Hey Htwo, I'm happy that you made a video on this topic, since there's so many different niche topics that the general community doesn't know. Especially when it comes to the jumpbugs and texturebugs. There were even a thing or two I learned from this video. Hope you've been doing nicely!
Also you should come back sometime to play some pass time pugs... ;)
Edit: Wanted to also say that you gotta love the tomato tom clips lol
🏀
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature
-Gabb Nowerd
love the editing
Damn this was a great video, a lot of stuff I didn't know. Nice!
Awesome video ! Would’ve been sweet to explain how mappers use and calculate height/velocity to make jumpbugs/bouncehops and bounces consistent 😉
Good point actually, I have no idea how they calculate it, but there are website apps out therd that let players calculate it on the fly
27:55, "All you need is a friend, and something to get stuck inside of" Bro??? 0.o
13:44 I may be thinking of something different yet similar but I can pretty consistently surf along the edge of the tunnel in 2fort using demo knights charge, its amazing for killing cocky tunnel snipers since the speed lets you surf up the stairs too and if you time it right you can instantly crit them
Hey Htwo, it might be something else entirely different, but on JA west coast I've seen some of the teachers, donors, and regulars pretty consistently wedging themselves on the walls of, well, Easy Walls - and it looks just like the pixel surf. I even managed it once! Easy Walls 10's 45 degree wall seems to be particularly prone to this wedging. Maybe it's made of a particularly large number of brushes??? IDK, either way you should check it out because it's pretty neat and if I and so many others can do it after just a couple of minutes then maybe there's some insight into setups for it you could discover!
EDIT: Just a few seconds later and now I see that this is already understood behavior lol. So much for potentially discovering something new.
Ctaps can also be used for backstabs. If you ctap on top of someone, you can backstab while midair allowing you to gain momentum and possibly backstab someone else while ur landing
Plus with pixelwalking, you can use +strafe and make it way easier
Trickstabbing is cool and all but did you know that you can write a keybind for instant turnaround to troll any spy trying to do this?
@@shinobuoshino5066 just use ur mouse
@@Anshhhhhhhhhk nah I'm not risking getting stabbed when my bind trolled thousands of spies who thought that they're very smart.
Yo the soundtrack of this video goes crazy. Some of my favorite games.
you can do wallbug on displacements too (works fine on dustbowl cliffs)
27:47 ive seen this bug in several games heres what i think is happening when a part has high velocity it tries to move in that direction if something stands on it they will both have that velocity but when the first part cant move but keeps its velocity it still transfers it to the second part and when that velocity is high it flkings the second part this bug is used in roblox studio for conveyor belts
Actually the stuck sentry launch jump can be done without cart- but you need an inclined surface on any map- you put a teleport entry on the incline and then the teleport exit right UNDER it- you teleport and get stuck in the teleport- then you shoot yourself with the wrangler(putting dispenser right by your side saves you from dying)- and then you destroy the teleport- the momentum you've benn genrating by shooting is released and you go into the air
I love the fact that "ildprut" means "firefart" from Danish to English
I have had a pixel surf happen exactly once, I was playing scout and got launched by an enemy soldier into it. Never knew that this was something that actually had a name since I just blamed source spaghetti at the time and have never had it happen again. The stuck launch, I used to do that on a trade server with friends because you could combine the trampoline with a stuck launch and basically catapult anyone that landed on you until you destroyed the building (We used tele's on ramps) which then subsequently launched the engie.
Wait Htwo is already at 70k+ subs?
I remember when he had 40k-, I knew he had the potential to blow as he has crazy talent but that was like just 3 months ago.
Highly informative, this video will be pretty useful!
Cmon bruh I found out about the wall bug myself after thousands of hours of source games and now u giving this info out ;( also got edgebugged over 100 times when bhopping
i saw a guy do a stuck launch on 2fort, when his sentry was upgrading from level 2 to 3 he jumped and got stuck inside the sentry then shot rockets and flew across the map and killed me while i was playing sniper
you missed something on stuck launches, there are actually special kinds of cliffstucks that you can get stuck in for only a second before being released and in that time you can build up momentum. My recent video "godspeed" features this tech in I think 2 or 3 spots but there's actually a bunch all over. it's useful for thermal thruster and the tech is referred to as "double thrust" within the community that discovered it (slender and a couple other people)
Its a rare day for me to learn so much new stuff about a game ive played for over a decade
I have been playing the game over the 6 years and never heard of crouching literally makes you weight lighter. Good video!
I tried to link the document, but I think it got bopped. EDIT: Link is in the description now.
Also people seem to think that crouchjumping brings your center closer to the explosion? It's the exact opposite since you "raise your legs" when you crouch in the air, bringing you further away (plus it's technically your bottom center that's used for explosions that happen under you). You'd be closer to the ground if you just jumped without crouching, but that'd be worse because the game treats you as having more mass. That's what cool about c-taps, they're the best of both worlds: you're crouched AND right above the ground.
this is gonna be a certified "useful" playlist classic. ty for le saucy source-y jamnk. 😎
no officer, I did not touch the child (at the end of the tick)
how have i only just found this channel
The thumbnail led me to think this was just gonna be someone ranting about Source Spaghetti and blaming the game for lost games, but this was extremely educational. Subscription added (:
I might be wrong on this, but isn't the "tick perfect sandvich" the same as the phlog taunt cancel? Either way, it's pretty cool to see that it works with any kind of "taunt" animations
Yes
I'm curious about that ildprut document, but I couldn't find it in the description or google 👀
another htwo video another banger :D was a very nice surprise to see myself appear in the video too hahahaha
this explained a lot of janky things i came across over my years of playing
Now i know how to t pose in the sky as heavy, great.
I only knew like 4 of these lol, the weight of the bounding box, c-tapping, and obviously rampslides and stuck launches (in fact i've beaten many jump maps as engineer, and not all jumps are doable with a simple stuck launch, there's more you can do as engineer, though one of the most exploitable tricks is dependent on a plugin most jump map servers run)
at some point you started to sound like some arcane wizzard rambling incomprehensible mumblings and honestly I want to be able to do that too
Insane level of research, props
Babe wake up, htwo posted a new video
Good video as always. thumbs up
awesome vid i learned alot. pls make more rivals of em aether videos
Infinite range flamethrower bug is so fun lol, there are many places in random maps that you can do them like for example in dustbowl of the second map part you go behind that small "house" and on the cliff next to place where is blue team you do ctrl + w and spam a+d and you might get sucked into wall + not get damage from most things if it's done correctly lol.
If not melee or ammo (and enemy pyro attacks) you could've been unstoppaple lol
ah yes, my favourite kind of esoteric knowledge bordering on insanity. the source spaghetti flavor.
there's a weird way to get stuck in displacements if you can place a dispenser underneath where a displacement vertice sticks out creating a ceiling to crouch and to get stuck in.
you have to crouch holding W going left and right (on the dispenser) to find a spot where your Y velocity starts bugging out between 7 and -11 (this probably varies, the more up the better).
stop holding crouch (still holding W) and tap A & D ~5 units where you found it.
youll stop moving when you get stuck, pick up the dispenser to make sure
It's been years since I last played TF2 but I specifically remember doing something similar to the last couple of tricks at some point. I remember both storing momentum and jumping across the map with Engineer but I can't remember if I got stuck in some door or in my own sentry. I'm really confused about this because I played cp_orange_x3 90% of the 2k hours I have in the game. I don't remember where or how I did this. I'm pretty sure there was a way to place a sentry on top of yourself or something like that.
Putting 2 teleporters close to eachother at a ledge would make you stuck in the teleporter. Then you could shoot yourself with your sentry, destroying the teleporter launched you forward. I think this got patched in Jungle Inferno?
@@sliftylovesyou Oh my God that is it! hahaha yeah this is definitely what I did and there were a few spots in orange where you'd be able to do it. Thank you! I have not played in years so if it got patched I never noticed.
The bounding box determining mass seems like a good, simple calculation for everything but crouching.
Small boxes and freight container mass, mini characters getting knocked back further than wumbo characters...
At 1:38 there is an insane medic crossbow heal btw. Respect for the medig