Heaton Fixes the Jones Act
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2021
- A hundred-year-old protectionist law that makes traffic worse and goods more expensive.
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The Jones Act requires that any vessel sailing between American ports (including those in territories, such as Puerto Rico and Guam) must be American-built, American-owned, and manned by an American crew flying the American flag. Passed as part of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 under the pretense of national defense-the claim was that the U.S. shouldn't be in a position of having to rely on foreign ships during wartime-the Jones Act is just a protectionist racket that drives up costs.
Despite "the absence of any measurable benefits, the Jones Act has persisted for nearly 100 years," said the Cato Institute in a 2017 report. Why? "The small number of beneficiaries, which primarily include domestic shipyards and some labor unions, are more powerfully motivated to preserve the status quo than are the far more numerous adversely affected interests in seeking its repeal."
Here's an idea: Let's scrap it!
Written and performed by Andrew Heaton
Produced and edited by Austin Bragg and Meredith Bragg
Music: Happy Happy Game Show by Kevin MacLeod
You forgot the Indiana Jones act, which requires all adventure seeking archaeologists to defend against nazis...
Just remember, that big, blond German woman.....is a secret NAZI! Honestly, I almost missed that.
Are we gonna just forget there are snakes to fend off? Why is it always snakes?!
@@brandonrunyon oh yeah, that too... lol
🤣🤣🤣
That act belongs in a museum!
Don't forget the Jim Jones act, free Kool-Aid for everybody.
Oooooo.... that's good! 😅
Grape Flavor Aid
And the Mrs. Jones Act. Where we got a thing.
Ohhh that cool-aid delicious, no one could say no to it, strangely enough though not many went for seconds i dont understand why :P
😂
I’ll be back for WW3 and you’ll need the Jones Act then.
DAMMIT HES ONTO US
I KNEW IT!!!
@@zombiehorsefranzferdinand9304 You should get one. Try going to church.
I'm impressed...
@@JosefFurg1611 church already has a zombie🙏🏼🧟♂️✝️
"The supply of Law and Demand" is pretty much what is taught nowadays.
Yup, all anyone is taught these days is to demand new laws.
Yeah, I'm being taught this in college currently in my macroeconomics class.
Which gender are those or they no binary? I wasn't here that day
Are any of you captains? Do you work in the maritime industry? Do you know why the jones act was created?
I feel like this video is just mocking those who are justifiably concerned about the possible resurrection of Zombie Horse Franz Ferdinand 🙁
I’m back and not going anywhere
@@zombiehorsefranzferdinand9304 dude lmaooo
@@zombiehorsefranzferdinand9304 Definitely not from port to port...
@@zombiehorsefranzferdinand9304 I like your bluegrass tribute band.
@@zombiehorsefranzferdinand9304 lol
Good to see Heaton's still hanging around ReasonTV
I suspect this video was made a while ago and was just released, but if he's back that's great.
hey good channels commenting on good channels
Oh dang I’m subscribed to the both of you
I still weep over the loss of Mostly Weekly.
we all do
Living in a free country is so not a goal anymore. More authority, please. I can't think or act without knowing the correct way to exist.
Interesting comment. Can't help to feel that your being a lil bit sassy though.
But, what do u really think about this so called law?
This law is 122 years old
Peter Schiff had a good rant on the Jones Act a while back, he lives in Puerto Rico.
I guess I didn’t realize he ranted about other stuff.
Check out his rant from 2 weeks ago. "America had lost every war we fought." It about taxes and civil liberties that were enacted for each war that were not repealed once that war was over. Which is a major factor in why we are taxed so much.
Only one senator tried hard to fix or get rid off the Jones act……. Hint Puertoricans voted against him. Sen. McCain
Getting goods to there after the hurricane was near impossible too
@@edc6644 McCain gave us Obamacare. He didn't like the Jones Act but forcing us all to buy health insurance is fine.
As a Hawaii resident, I believe if the Jones Act hadn't been enacted all those years ago, Honolulu could have been more of a shipping Juggernaut given our very central location in the Pacific. But instead goods must be shipped to Los Angeles then back to Hawaii. End the Jones Act.
exactly, The jones act also prohibits Lakers from taking the most direct route on the great lakes between those ports, do you think lakers are going to be a major concern of anything the Jones act is wanting to do
What are “lakers?”
@@Pau11Wa11……it’s great “lakers” as in Great Lake shipping vessels. He’s talking about the routes that good must take between Canadian and American ports on the Great Lakes.
Explain. Be specific. Why couldn’t Hawaii be that now? International 0:01 ships can still dock there. It would only require that American ships take the good from there to other American ports. Again. Be specific.
@@longsleevethong1457 Often ships drop off some cargo in a port and then continue to the next port. Without the Jones act, ships from Asia could drop off cargo in Hawaii and then continue on to Los Angeles for example.
Not to be confused with the Joan sacked. The cute receptionist who was caught stealing ink cartridges.
You men Joan in the sack?
@@shausen1179 I'm well aware of her nickname.
My favorite part of this video was the "free government energy subsidies in your area" ad that ran immediately before it. RUclips really gets me...
"no foreign built vessel shall ply the coastal trade" is why my friend's beautiful Norwegian built sailing sloop, the Sylvia, couldn't take passengers on a cruise between her home port in Seattle to say... someplace on the Oregon coast.
at that time (decades ago) there was a loophole where she could sail to Vancouver, BC or one of its nearby islands and *then* visit the Oregon coast... where they'd be stuck unless they went to like the Baha peninsula and *then* back to Seattle.
thanks, Congresscritters!
That "loophole" still exists. It's how they use foreign boats from Washington to Alaska. They stop in Canada.
@@z987k - thanks for the info!
@@z987k Wow, someone in the comments section who actually knows something about the Jones act👍🏼
Just slap an American flag on it.
More of this please. He’s probably Andrew Heaton and you’ve probably enjoyed this video. Maybe.
He's Andrew Heaton, and so are we.
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Does the Jones Act apply to spaceships and airships too? Or just regular ships?
Just seafaring vessels.
If it were at all consistent it would apply to planes as well..
@@donaldpyper4627 Cabotage rules do.
I am a Jones Act mariner and I support repealing the US ship building requirement of the Jones Act. Beyond that I support cabotage rules, as is the case in every other transportation sector in these United States.
@@dutchtyphoid Just say that you are against freedom and Liberty. It's much easier.
Oh boy I sure am glad TVs cost 10$ less so all my friends who lost their jobs can buy them.
Maybe it would be possible to alter the Jones act to make it lighter without completely removing it.
The ability to build, crew, and maintain ships domestically is a rational national security concern. Having our domestic shipping handled by foreign shipping, with vessels built in foreign ports, by foreign crews seems unwise if we don't maintain the institutions, material and skills needed to do so ourselves at volume.
I'm open to remedies to that address, or information that would obviate, this concern. Blowing off that concern is a leppo.
Yeah but that doesn't work, which was stated in the video. We have a overly large fleet of inefficient and slow semi trucks. Many of these shipping companies are foreign-owned. How does that help us at all? What is wrong with foreign-built ships crewed by Americans? One major prohibitive cost, which was also mentioned in the video, is ship building. Did you even watch the video?
@@jimlovesgina Reason didn't do a very good job with this video, and they can't be expected to in six minutes.. There are foreign built ships that are flagged and crewed by US citizens. I've served on some myself-don't forget to pack your international outlet adapters when going to an unfamiliar vessel, or you're gonna have a bad time😉 Foreign built ships can serve in the US Merchant fleet, they just cannot be BUILT for the US Merchant fleet.
Take this video for what it is-six minutes of jokes about things that most people (including the host who clearly spent about an hour researching the topic) just barely, vaguely understand.
Then take it from someone who makes their living on the water, has a VERY clear understanding of the intricacies of the Jones act, maritime law, and serves as an officer of the US Merchant Marine. The Jones act, while not perfect, is VERY good for the United States, her merchant fleet, her mariners, national security, and as a general rule, the shipping that takes place.
@@jimlovesgina I'm not convinced that it simply "doesn't work". There is a US ship building, crew training and so forth, and there are several industries that have lacked similar protections that just don't exist in the US anymore (for now). I'm less concerned about who crews the ship than who can create ships and crews. The lead time on those sorts of industries and systems is enormous, and the expertise needed to build them can be lost, increasing that lead time further. A naval power that off shores the institutional knowledge and infrastructure for its own merchant marine would be, frankly, too dumb to live very long.
I've no doubt the Jones Act creates drag on the economy, and I'm all for having a better way to do it. I don't know what that is, and I'd be pretty cautious about exposing such vital and foundational pieces of our physical security, economic security and ability to project power. The video doesn't give much consideration to this problem, and certainly doesn't address it., and as much as I support Reason and it's ideas, this sort of thing is a real blind spot for them.
@@andrewjones2453 you are correct about the video not addressing physical/economical security and the projection of power. These are the real reasons behind the Jones act that Reason ignored. These are also the reasons that our fleet has to be crewed by Americans. We probably don't want one of the pillars of our national security commanded and crewed by Chinese citizens, for example.
Just like building ships, the lead time on training crews must be taken into account as well. Only the lead time is MUCH longer. A basic deck officer generally spends four years at a maritime academy. It could take fifteen years to make a Captain. Just becoming an Able Bodied seaman with a limited tonnage rating requires 18 months of sea service. That's time actually spent at sea-your days off don't count. Unlimited tonnage? Three years AT SEA. As you can see, this is a a pipeline that we must keep flowing, as experienced crews can not be made quickly.
The US Merchant fleet is essentially an inactive branch of the military standing by in reserve to be activated during wartime. This, and the extreme lead times on qualified crews and leadership are the reasons our merchant vessels have to be crewed by US citizens.
I'm a big fan of Reason as well, but the Jones act is more complex than, "government regulation bad, free market good." It's kind of like saying we should buy our tanks and fighter jets from China and Russia because they can make them cheaper, then crew them with Guatemalans because free market.
@@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen I think you would agree that the Merchant Marine we have now probably isn’t sufficient already, but at least it may be enough to forme a cadre to train up greater numbers of merchant mariners if needed. Not so sure about shipbuilding capacity - doesn’t look good as far as I can tell.
you are missed, Mr. Heaton! make more vids!
Is this also why international air carriers cannot operate between American cities?
Not the Jones act, but similar logic. You have the same principle for pretty much every form of transport, like truck shipping.
Because of cabotage, yes. Look up the freedoms of the air
This reminds me of a similar, but equally bad law. When I was in college, cab fare from Cambridge to Logan Airport was double the standard rate, because Cambridge taxis were not allowed to pick up passengers at Logan, which is in Boston, so you had to pay the taxi's return rate as well.
Caveat: I have not checked this. There is a law called the Passenger Vessel Services Act which essentially does the same as the Jones Act but for - passengers (but for ships not airplanes). It dates back to the 1880's. That's the reason why non US-flagged cruise ships must always stop off at a foreign port before returning to the US port they departed from. My guess is a similar law was passed for airlines when that technology became commercially viable. Hence, no Lufthansa flights between NY and LA...
@@gregthebaritone We had foreign built ships manned by Americans before WW1 until these ships were called to service in Europe. And why will our military order foreign made ships and equipments and be at the mercy of foreigners?? The Jones Act did energized ship-building industry (expertise, capital, experience..etc) before the start of WW2, and the benefits were reaped by looking at our industrial output during WW2 . ...... ...... What's wrong with protectionism per say??. Bla bla bla!! .... Americans should be the primary beneficiaries of commerce. So protectionism is cool unless it's shown otherwise by convincing evidence. So far, except with Puerto Rico (and give can grant a waiver now an d then when an emergency occurs) we are doing fine with Jones Act. A hundred years later and what's the problem?
we are actually celebrating such a law in Turkey called "Cabotage Holiday"
Don't forget the "maritime" part. Lol
My usual salutation to you has never been more apropos: Ahoy-hoy, Heaton!
This is the tale of Captain Jack Sparrow!
A pirate so brave on the seven seas.
A mystical quest to the Isle of Tortuga...
Raven locks sway on the ocean breeze.
I see Andrew Heaton, i need to click
Bla bla bla!! .... Americans should be the primary beneficiaries of commerce. So protectionism is cool unless it's shown otherwise by convincing evidence. So far, except with Puerto Rico (and give can grant a waiver now an d then when an emergency occurs) we are doing fine with Jones Act.
3:19 Don't confuse a change in quantity demanded with a change in demand. With what you described, the supply schedule moves in. But the demand curve remains unchanged.
So, I was in agreement until you started talking about using foreign steel in repairs. Despite how ridiculous this sounds each country has different requirements for the forging of steel and those steels might not bond correctly on a chemical level (at least if we're talking about welding repairs). I've seen way too many examples of cheap chinese steel failing to weld to american or european steels and "cracking." Other than that though, yeah we need to rework this Act.
Rework, sure. Abolish, no.
That's what contracts, rather than laws, are for.
You are right, however, this should be left up to the laws of supply and demand.
My brother builds steel buildings for a living. We have a choice between c-iron made in the USA or Mexico. The Mexico stuff is flimsy and rusts easy. The stuff from the US is strong and doesn't rust as much. When my brother builds a building for a customer, he gives them the option of paying more for the US steel or less for the Mexico steel.
The people who go for the US steel are usually his favorite customers to work with, and the cheapskates who want to save 500 usually are the ones he doesn't want to work with.
This. There isn't just "steel" or "stainless steel" there are massive actual types and quality with different composite blends, strength, and specific use and resistance. 1095, 440, 550 all are EXTREMELY different metals..
And those are just the US SAE grades. China and even the Europeans use different standards.@@MrJoshcc600
Watching this video right after REMY's parody #Çabotage was posted today. Very complimentary videos.
#FreeMarket #VOLUNTARYISM
I'm a US merchant mariner, I think the Jones Act is good for the Cabotage aspect: A ship operates under the laws of the flag it flies, and represents sovereign ground for that country. Without cabotage you could have foreign ships moving cargo, for example, up and down the Mississippi river with foreign citizens living under foreign laws onboard. I guess I'm the kind of Libertarian who believes in borders. Most countries have cabotage laws.
Also, not that I agree with this part of the jones act, Chinese steel used in ships is demonstrably worse and the ships have a far shorter lifespan (like 10 years) versus US ships which can last many decades. Not all ships are built equally
Big fan of Heaton’s podcasts, but it’s always fun to see his video collabs with Reason. This one felt very Mostly Weekly-ish and I’m here for it 😊plus where else can I get up-to-date Horse Cannon™️ info amirite
Bla bla bla!! .... Americans should be the primary beneficiaries of commerce. So protectionism is cool unless it's shown otherwise by convincing evidence. So far, except with Puerto Rico (and give can grant a waiver now an d then when an emergency occurs) we are doing fine with Jones Act.
Ah ok so we should continue to further outsource our internal infrastructure because it makes lower prices at Walmart... got it!
Remy's latest Cabotage video perfectly compliments this documentary!
Greetings to everyone who came to watch this again (or for the first time) after Remy's Cabotage video.
I love the subtle Gondorian and Klingon flags in there.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some reforms but the Jones Act was to prevent shipping from becoming what microprocessors Have Become. Have you read the news lately US Navy doesn't have any capability to repair ships anymore there was no demand so the supply went away still needs to be some taxes in place to keep us shipbuilding and steel
Given that it was enacted in 1920, anticipating on a future war, can somebody tell me whether the Jones Act worked for that period? Because that war eventually arrived, so I'm curious to know if it actually had the intended impact at that given time.
This is a good question.
Yes it was heavily relied on in WW2 to supply goods to troops abroad and maintain the ports. Without it we would not have stood a chance because of the already depleted Allied fleet. The German U-boats where very effective but could not keep up with the number of ships created and put in service by the US.
@@pttugbud Great points. Also, a modern attack submarine is vastly more capable than the subs that the Germans used to (almost) throttle transatlantic supplies. This was at a time when our shipbuilding industry was much, much more robust. Even the Iranian Kilo class subs are far superior to what the Germans had, not to mention the capabilities of what the Russians and Chinese have. Yet we have let our merchant fleet and our shipyards atrophy and I fear we will one day pay a severe price for that - and now people want to make it worse by getting rid of the Jones Act?
@@pttugbud "Without it we would not have stood a chance" How do you even demonstrate that this is true? We might have had an even larger fleet of foreign-built ships manned by Americans. Simply asserting that we were better off is absurd. You can't even reasonable quantify the effects of the Jones Act until you get rid of it.
@@midtownmariner5250 The guy in this video clearly has no idea what he's talking about on this one, nor does anyone who isn't connected to the maritime industry. On the surface, these all seem like good points, but the reason these protections exist lie much deeper. Reason dropped the ball here. They did about an hours worth of homework on a thousand year old industry that most people forget even exists in the first place.
The big reason for the jones act is having a merchant marine. During a crisis or war time the us can use it merchant marine ships, and crews.
4:10 I wonder how far the biggest 50 cities of the EU are from a seaport, vs the biggest 50 cities in the US. Maybe the difference here is primarily dictated by geography.
That's a good point. Comparisons with Europe may not be the strongest way to oppose the Jones Act.
@@JonathanRossRogers Comparisons with Europe as an ideal are never a good idea
I thought Andrew was going to fix the Jones Act. It’s right there in the title. I feel betrayed.
As a machinist I can confirm. Imported steel and brass sucks.
Blanket comparison of 2% US ship transport vs 40% EU ship transport is absurd and foolish.
The EU has *FAR* more coastline and much more direct water routes than the US.
I'm all for removing bad laws here, but lets at least compare apples to oranges rather than peaches to fireworks.
Was about to say the same thing. I agree with the sentiment of the video, but that was a bad comparison on their part.
To some extent, yes, but “absurd and foolish” is also a blanket statement. I-95 and I-81 are frequently jammed with trucks, yet both run parallel to the Atlantic coast and link New England / New York / Canada to Florida and the Gulf of Mexico. It doesn’t have to be 40, but could we do much better than 2%?
@@usnbostx2 Companies that move products with trucks are not going to be using ships, they have entirely different purposes.
If I want to move a pallet of goods up the coast, I'm not going to wait a month to get it on a coastal freighter.
If I'm moving 5000 tons of wheat I might have used a ship, but the alternative is rail, not trucks.
@@usnbostx2 How much of the traffic jams are cause by LONG HAUL trucking instead of just local routes?
Just because it's loaded on a truck doesn't mean it's driving 4 states away.
No one is going to opt for local delivery traffic by sea, especially if those deliveries are anywhere inland.
Also, it could be that the most efficient method is by rail. All we can do is reduce regulations and let the free market figure it out.
@@usnbostx2 true. Boat traffic on I95 is typically very light.
Andrew Heaton could describe how paint dries and it would be entertaining.
As a tugboater who moves products from Seattle to points all over Alaska, without the Jones act, my job would be done by Chinese people working in horrifying conditions because, communism. The Jones act is necessary to ensure quality of vessels and working conditions operating in our waters. It also has a function similar to what labor and industries does for people working inside the United States.
You forgot to mention the James Earl Jones act, which states all movie fatherly figures must have deep voices
One of the often overlooked aspects of the Jones act is it's far reaching and crippling effects on small vessels, charter yachts, and many small businesses.
It also creates an interesting scenario for American mariners.
As far as mariners, the Jones Act sucks.
As far as American Mariners, it keeps what little that remains of the US Merchant Marine in existence. If a serious war breaks out, do you think $5 per hour foreign mariners are going to want to risk carrying any of our goods? During the Gulf Wars, how much of our stuff was carried to theater by foreign mariners on foreign ships? Not a good situation.
@@midtownmariner5250 Like a traditional war is even going to break out.
@@aetas4500 Put a few Iranian Kilo Class subs with nothing to loose off our coasts and see what happens.
Also, how much of our stuff was transported on foreign ships during the gulf wars? They weren’t “total” wars.
But it goes beyond war. Trade on the seas is vital to us and our allies. If it gets disrupted for whatever reason, war or no war, we are in big trouble both here and abroad.
@@midtownmariner5250 We shouldn't even have military alliances to begin with
I need more Heaton content!
Why not just make counterfeit ships with counterfeit steel and so on.
Because worthwhile ships for shipping, especially the infamous ship shipping ship that ships shipping ships, are very big and easy to track.
$5 says at least one shipyard fudged the invoice for some I-beams.
Cabotage are a problem here in the EU though; where companies, especially from eastern Europe can pretty much station trucks in foregin nations, and because they pay their drivers next to nothing(and the quality are thereby...) they end up forcing down the rates so much national companies have to pay their drivers less and less just to be able to compete.
“But I’ve never been stuck behind a steamship on I-95” had me dying.😂😂😂
Yeah, it's a rent-seeking ripoff. But isn't that pretty much what every law is for?
We had foreign built ships manned by Americans before WW1 until these ships were called to service in Europe. And why will our military order foreign made ships and equipments and be at the mercy of foreigners?? The Jones Act did energized ship-building industry (expertise, capital, experience..etc) before the start of WW2, and the benefits were reaped by looking at our industrial output during WW2 . ...... ...... What's wrong with protectionism per say??. Bla bla bla!! .... Americans should be the primary beneficiaries of commerce. So protectionism is cool unless it's shown otherwise by convincing evidence. So far, except with Puerto Rico (and we can grant a waiver now and then when an emergency occurs) we are doing fine with Jones Act. A hundred years later and what's the problem?
Oh so this is David Smith I've been hearing so much about, he is pretty good.
Thank you Bemblebatch Cumperpunch
Ah bring back mostly weekly!
The language on this is so, so clever. I miss Mostly Weekly.
Just a spoon full of sugar helps the propaganda go down. - Julie Andrews
The Jones act keeps American mariners jobs secure.
How about this: we scrap the Jones Act, but we move funding into hiring people to move cargo cheaply and efficiently build ships in the U.S. with automated factories, we then recoup the costs by just having that extra $64 billion in economic productivity (which means tax revenues that can pay for that system).
@@evannibbe9375 So remove the protections of good paying American jobs and bring cheap foreign labor into the country?
Bring back this guy's show!
That bit about the Jiffy Lube got me good! Great analogy!
Evil Archduke Franz Ferdinand is how I will view him from now on.
3:16 "With less demand for shipping, shipping companies produce fewer ships, which means fewer ships next time we go to war." Right outcome, wrong explanation The law doesn't reduce demand for shipping; but as you just said: it increases the COST of shipping, and limits the demand for SHIPS.
There's less demand for ships because more cargo is transported by trucks or other means.
@@JonathanRossRogers I think that's a big factor here, and it's driven by landlocked population centers in the US vs port- or port-adjacent cities in Europe.
@@jamespfitz I'm not sure there's any disagreement. Maybe there's some uncertainty about what the video means by "shipping." I understood "shipping" to mean the carrying of cargo on ships. Maybe you understood it to mean the carrying of cargo via any means?
Good one. Don't forget the Tom Jones act restricting the permitted characteristics of Welsh crooners.
Washingtonian here. This makes it hard for us to get new ferries for our ferry network. Hope it gets repealed (or at least scaled back) at some point
It could be argued that without the Jones act, we’d have no domestic shipping because the cost of foreign materials and labor is far lower than the USA. And ships use flags of convenience already because domestic registration is costly
I’m not in favor of the act, but I’m pointing out reasons one could use in its favor
Yes, exactly. It is bad enough that most of our oceanic trade is done by foreigners. What happens if they don’t want to risk coming here because of a war or some other reason?
Everyone posting here should see what and how much material is shipped on the Intercostal Waterway, on our rivers and in coastwise trade and then imagine it all being disrupted suddenly. If you thought the effects of the Colonial Pipeline disruption were bad.....
Watch what happens when foreigners control all the waterborne transport of materials and those foreigners suddenly decide to stop working here for whatever reason.
@@midtownmariner5250 the libertarian argument to that is “the costs are as high as they are due to government meddling with the market”, which is a point with which I agree. However, without taking steps to reduce government meddling and allow the market to react before repealing the Jones act, I don’t see any other outcome beside what I said in my previous comment
@@redram5150 repealing the Jones act would have massive negative consequences beyond the cost of goods going down. As a Libertarian, I am of course against government meddling, but our merchant fleet has responsibilities far more broad reaching than just making goods more affordable. Namely national security. Besides, most of the goods shipped here by sea are already coming via foreign ships flying flags of convenience, crewed by low wage foreign mariners in the first place.
@@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen to call it a “matter of national security” devalues the term. If one were to stretch it far enough one could say not having domestic light bulb production is a matter of national security.
@@redram5150 would you have Russia or China resupply our nuclear subs underway then? It is the US Merchant fleet that handles all US naval replenishment at sea, you know.
Suppose a major foreign power decides that they don't want foreign flagged vessels supplying the US with necessary resources any more. Hmmm.... If only we had our own fleet that could bring those resources...
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Maintaining our own merchant fleet is ABSOLUTELY a matter of national security. You go be an expert in your field, as you clearly don't know much about mine. Everyone watches a six minute long, wildly inaccurate video full of bad jokes, and all of a sudden they know all about the intricacies of international shipping and the maritime industry🙄
The easiest path should be to have a bipartisanism movement to remove the outdated laws that have been hanging around the books.
Easiest way would be to just do what Jeffersonian would do. Out right ignore the damn despotic law and state that all laws expire after 27 years (or half the age of a human...granted I like the 27 years better 😉)
The great thing about a divided congress is that they can't pass any new dumb laws. The bad thing is that they can't repeal old dumb laws either.
@@aetas4500 pretty sure in any state the government always passes more laws than it removes and will always do that hence why what Jeffersonian said in ~1800 was so important that all laws naturally expire
The easiest path would be to elect a President who would, say, sign an executive order to remove two old laws for every new one.
1:06 I just sailed from Denver to Las Vegas last week!
I hate tariffs as well, but I do think that gaining economic independence within certain areas from certain countries in times of war temporary is fine.
Don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the reason that Americans use trucks instead of ships more than Europeans is this one law instead of the fact that most of America's states are landlocked versus almost ever European nation having direct access to the ocean or a sea that connects to the ocean?
Actually, the whole video is disingenuous. It's really just six minutes of marginal jokes about something he doesn't understand beyond face value.
Concerning shipping via trucks, what he failed to mention is that a MASSIVE amount of shipping does take place between states on water, as most states aren't actually landlocked. Our network of rivers, inland waterways, canals, and the great lakes moves FAR more tonnage than trucks could ever dream of.
@@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen he said that, 2% of the shipping is on water
Why is it the Jones act is temporarily on hold during emergencies? 🤔 I thought that was a good point. I will agree I don't know if he is correct on all his points but the most important point is why the Jones act?
Most cities in the US are inland, most of the people in the US live in cities with large water ports
Aloha Reason,
You need to really do more research into the 1920 Jones Act, it’s a very important act than just shipping cargo in the U.S.
Aloha,
Bosun
In Brazil, we have the Commercial Code, the same one since 1850, and it sets the parameters about cabotage and other related stuff.
The citizens of Massatucky appreciate you discussing this important topic.⛴
Massatucky isn't real, but then again neither is Wyoming and nobody makes a big deal about that.
Isn’t this one of Barry Obama’s 57 states?
Thank you for keeping this stuff funny! Laudanum, hahaha!
1:06 I like how Denver is in Georgia and Las Vegas is in Idaho? Lol
I wish Vegas was in Idaho, instead of a shitty, borderline lethal state like Nevada.
USA owned and based shipping and ship building industries gives us easily convertible production capability and a source for trained crews for our ships in the event of war. Those are legitimate reasons for doing this.
It's a nice theory. Too bad it didn't work out that way. The US has basically no commercial shipbuilding capacity any more, which is why Jones act ships are so hard to come by and so expensive. Furthermore, there's no particular reason to think British or Mexican crews will refuse to ship tanks to Iraq. I mean, yeah, one crew might but there are lots of other crews to hire.
In case you didn't notice, our last two major Middle East adventures didn't seem to have trouble finding shipping. I doubt those were entirely Jones Act ships.
In the mean time, we're absolutely screwing over the people in Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Massatucky, the environment, and every other citizen who pays extra for goods because we're using trucks or trains instead of cheap shipping.
@@PeteSmoot We had foreign built ships manned by Americans before WW1 until these ships were called to service in Europe. And why will our military order foreign made ships and equipments and be at the mercy of foreigners?? The Jones Act did energized ship-building industry (expertise, capital, experience..etc) before the start of WW2, and the benefits were reaped by looking at our industrial output during WW2 . ...... ...... What's wrong with protectionism per say??. Bla bla bla!! .... Americans should be the primary beneficiaries of commerce. So protectionism is cool unless it's shown otherwise by convincing evidence. So far, except with Puerto Rico (and we can give a waiver now and then when an emergency occurs) we are doing fine with Jones Act. A hundred years later and what's the problem?
Yeah he complains American built is more expensive.... Because we pay Americans more then slave labor like other cheaper countries. Which do you want? Higher pay or cheaper ships? Grey rid of Jones act and those higher paying America jobs go poof to overseas cheap labor
More Andrew Heaton!!!
always with the horse jokes, classic heaton
Simple minded Chinese plant. If cheap is your goal, why stop with ships… rail, trucks, planes and busses should also be taken over by your Chinese owners…. They could also save on all the pesky liability and environmental expenses.
This video shows a complete misunderstanding of the shipping industry and macroeconomics v. microeconomics. Highly expensive commercial ships are not subject to the same degree of supply and demand forces that are present in microeconomic climates. Secondly, having USA commercial shipping capabilities is critical to the security of the country. China would love to take over all of our shipping needs.
And then we wouldn't have any control of our own resources and production at all. And it's not like we could reacquire the expertise in design, engineering, and construction of large ships on short notice if needed once those skills are lost. It would take years to recreate and rebuild shipyards and a shipbuilding industry. Large ships are amongst the most complex engineering systems created by the human race ever.
Not a good place to be in the event of large scale war. Without the Jones act, US shipping would quickly evaporate to just about nothing.
Also standards of foreign flagged vessels are largely subpar to dangerous compared to US standards. Have you ever been on a flag of convenience vessel? I have, having been in the merchant marine. Sailors on those rust bucket death traps die every year from equipment failures or sinkings. This guy knows nothing about the reality of world shipping today.
Well said.
1. we're not going to be in a large scale war in our lifetime 2. any modern war with China wouldn't involve ships like it did in the early 20th century 3. driving up the cost of shipping hurts American consumers
@@aetas4500 You missed the point of the OP.
Total destruction of shipping capacity is CRITICAL for a sovereign country, not just for war, but economic independence.
The lack of semiconductor capacity outside China is the current "war" that is costing the rest of the world bigly now. Also caused by not ensuring local sovereign independence.
@@aetas4500 In addition to the other reply: All assumptions that we can’t afford to make. If the Chinese move against Taiwan, you may well get to see why.
How will we resupply Taiwan, Japan or the Philippines if China moves against them? By airplane? Japan *was* strangled by submarine warfare and and an insufficient merchant marine once already.
And the Chinese wouldn’t dare try to disrupt our coastwise trade over what they perceive as a vital national interest? Really?
I guess no one would dare hack our important national infrastructure either, especially not for much more paltry reasons - like the Colonial Pipeline or meat packing plants.
Generic Comment, you made the best post I have yet seen on this thread.
I hate the Jones Act because I live in Hawaii. However, 747 Freighters are an effective work around.
Hawaii, and the territories need an exception to the Jones Act. Islands in the middle of the ocean should be able to take advantage of freight routes that are already going across the ocean, even if foreign owned.
as a resident of Massatucky, I am outraged.
Dude just lost me saying ships don’t have souls. Also there’s an issue not covered with regard to natural gas: security. NG ships need a coast guard escort. You can only get as many NG’s into port at a time as escort can protect
I love reason TV, but they have a kindergarteners grasp on this issue.
ports were flooded with cargo after hurricanes... wasnt shortage of shipping it was shortage of internal infrastructure after hurricane...
sure lets sell more ports to Arabs
... without Jones Act US Merchant Marine would be worse state than it already is... might as well have our nuclear material transported by CCP, also there is a difference in foreign steel... check all rusting stainless steel made in China and lead coated children's toys
I think you have accidentally stumbled into our universe from the one where logical arguments win the day.
Solid guvmnt logic. This act will never go away.
There are more European cities interconnected by navigable waterways than in the US. Jones act or not, most of us in the US are getting goods by truck or air.
I would rather not rely on Chinese made/owned ships for my shipping needs. We would probably be far better off if we made it easier to manufacture products in the USA instead of continuing to outsource everything to China.
Why does it matter where the products are made?
Should it really matter where a ship is built? If a US company owns the ship and has a US flag flying, what does country of origin for ship matter? All your electronics come from Asia. Do US ships just us sextants?
@@chrispychip6569
It matters if an antagonistic relationship develops between one nation which consumes things and another which produces things.
If China dominated the US shipping market, then enacted laws banning Chinese ships in US waters, there would be enormous disruption to the US shipping infrastructure as other nations, or the locals, tried to fill the gap in the market.
Basically, if all Countries behaved in a way consistent with their economic self-interest, the world would be perfect. Unfortunately, political pressure and 'diplomacy' outpace economics in the minds of too many politicians.
@@callumunga5253 so I see your argument but I don’t find it compelling. To me it sounds like since there is a possibility that another country might impose a law to disrupt the market we should have a law to make it permanently disrupted.
@@chrispychip6569
With this Jones Law nonsense, it's never disrupted, just suboptimally efficient.
It's more expensive to the consumers, but unless the US goes and passes a law to ban shipping of goods by US ships, the infrastructure can't be compromised by a foreign power.
Additionally, the increased cost of moving shipped goods has affected supply and demand in such a way as to make ground-side 'shipping' more popular, particularly train freight.
Now, I learned from another commenter that the Jones act was extended to include Trains of all things, and I find that ridiculous, and reeks of protectionism.
This highlights that the law isn't perfect by any stretch.
With bulk transport ships, the expensive part is the ship itself. I could care less if that ship is non-US built or even crewed. If a ship is US owned, then workers would be protected by US labour laws, and thus couldn't be payed the low fees the Chinese do. Thus, there would be no extra incentive to hire Chinese nationals over US citizens, removing the possibility of China banning their citizenry from working on US ships.
Trains on the other hand, the expensive part of their operation is the tracks the trains operate across, and the associated infrastructure. This infrastructure is inherently American, so short of military action can't be compromised.
Screw that, I'd rather have a robust shipping industry than a few cents off my Nikes.
Did you not catch the part where it has the opposite effect and reduced the fleet size? Most acts of Congress have the opposite effect of their intent.
@@jishcatg reduces it in times of peace, says nothing about what happens when the Chinese decide we don't need goods anymore.
@@jishcatg also, ships cost more to build here because the government made it that way. We also pay 10x more for doctors and real-estate than most other nations.
Protectionism doesn’t work. Period. Also you think the Chinese are the only shipbuilders or allies out there?
banning jiffy lube would actually be a good move. great video.
0:23 - I love how you subtly corrected the famously erroneous verbiage from the original quote which had farcically misrepresented the effects of the pollutant on frogs.
As a U.S. Naval Architect who would be out of a job without the Jones Act I believe this video misses the point a little bit. Without a little bit of protectionism all of our merchant vessels would be built overseas as it’s much cheaper to build them in places like South Korea, so no U.S. commercial shipyards would really exist. However, during wartime when Navy vessels need to be built at a much faster cadence we need the additional capacity of commercial shipyards along with the skilled labor they keep on-hand. It’s not completely bad to have the ability to produce essential products within the U.S. even if it’s not economically optimal. We saw this phenomenon recently with PPE shortage during COVID-19.
As a Naval Architect can you speak to how long it takes to build a say 800' tanker? People on here think you can just buy one at walmart the moment a war starts.
Yeah the other day I was planning on invading Germany so I rowed over to dollar general and boat a 1:1 working model of the Lusitania. Dang krauts torpedoed it again but it was a good plan
"I work in this industry and so other Americans need to pay more for goods, and be hampered by relief efforts because...reasons."
One good effect of the Jones Act is the requirement that sailors follow U.S. labor laws. Ships flying foreign flags use those countries' laws. In some cases that means near slavery for those working on board. Do we really want Somali flagged ships moving up and down the East Coast with sailors getting paid a dollar an hour?
Of course this could be solved with more tailored legislation avoiding the ill effects of the Jones act.
Yeah, it would be so easy to just keep the labor laws part and skip all the other nonsense. I'm pretty certain European operators would be able to respect them.
Horse-Zombie-Ferdinand is trying to bring back Disco Fever. He must be defeated.
What’s wrong with that?
I’m waiting for the law to expand to trucking
Good news, the Jones act had been removed. All port-to-port American shipping is now done by third world sailors but the good news is your plastic fly swatter is now only 97 cents instead of 99.
So are you saying we should do just like we've done for microprocessors then let all the foreign countries do it then and if they decide to pull the rug out from under us with your s*** out of luck we should be like that with shipping you're saying?
Spot on analogy.
Exactly, the problem with many libertarians is they want to do away with all protectionism. But from our founding we have always had a robust conversation about the degree of protectionism that's actually required. Anyone saying the answer is, "no protectionism," is history-blind and naive.
Never heard of it. Thanks for the education! Makes sense to indeed scrap it!
As we learned during covid. Not all of our infrastructure should be dependent on foreign labor. A US shipping fleet will support us in the next world war.
"Cabotage" is pronounced like "sabotage" ....with an aaaaahhhhhh
Ooh, that means we should have a Remy parody of the Beastie Boys "Sabotage" to look forward to.
@@Off-Brand_Devin totally!
As libertarians, we firmly believe that leftist statists have a right to move to our neighborhoods and organize around their communities political ideals. What could possibly go wrong?
Right on...I'll stay inland and buy "stuff" from my neighborhood...but...the information was great.
"54bln someone gotta keep an eye on pocket change". transitory inflation: hold my beer ;p
The really silly thing about the Jones Act is that it also applies to yachts, which makes no sense at all in light of the purported aims of the Act.
We need to have some US based small-boat builders who can quickly pivot to building military vessels in times of war. This was done during WWII and was a crucial aspect to winning on both the European and Pacific fronts.
@Ross Outdoors That is my understanding.
@@JohnAhrendt The days of the Higgins boats and PT boats are long over. Besides, the law does not accomplish that goal. If you're rich enough to afford a yacht, you are rich enough to buy one overseas, and sail it under a foreign flag. Which is what is actually done.
I'm going to have to restudy the Jones's act! This is entirely different than what I know!
As a merchant mariner, I rely on the Jones Act so that I can receive a living wage and good benefits doing a hard job. Without the Act, companies would 100% hire foreign crews at dirt wages with no benefits and lax safety standards. This would disrupt American trade with more accidents, schedules not being kept, and an unwillingness to work in the field. Not all protectionism is unwarranted. I understand your points and agree with a lot of them BUT scrapping it altogether is a bad idea. You also overlook that part of the reason American built ships are so expensive is because their failure rate is lower and required safety features are more robust. Your cheap as hell ship does no good rusting at the pier or lying on the bottom. I'm not saying that you're wrong about the Act having flaws but some form of it is VITAL to American shipping.
Thanks. Saved me a lot of typing for this simplistic and naive analysis.
It also prevents direct shipment to Hawaii and Puerto Rico. Ships must go to a mainland port first then transfer cargo to US-flagged vessels to complete the voyage. Thereby driving the prices up. There is a vested interest by US professional mariners to keep this in place. The cost in human lives was all to clear in the last hurricane to hit Puerto Rico - not even foreign disaster aid could be shipped there until the waiver.
Good stuff Andrew haha - informative and entertaining!
Just a spoon full of sugar helps the propaganda go down. - Julie Andrews