Why the F.I.R.E. Movement Isn’t Sustainable
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
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A career which gives you a little bit of time and work-life balance costs you financial independence because it'll be low paying. Tough choices to make. Keep in mind, investing provides a jumpstart to financial freedom. At 34, I already have a $1m portfolio.
Varied sources of income is wise and especially living within your means. My net worth is $2M and I can pay my bills with no stress, but I don't live like I have that. I have no complaints.
Money advice is subjective, what works for you may not work for someone else, but it's always better to plan. I'm quite lucky exposed to personal finance at an early age, started job at 19, bought first home 28, got laid-off work 36 amid covid-outbreak, and at once I consulted an advisor to handle growing my finance. As of today, I'm only 25% short of my $2m goal after subsequent investments.
great gains there! mind sharing details of your advisor pleas? i've started gaining more cash flow with my employment and looking at putting money into stocks and alternative assets that can help build wealth over time
Melissa Elise Robinson is the licensed advisor I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with to set up an appointment.
Thank you for sharing, I must say, Jessica appears to be quite knowledgeable. After coming across her web page, I went through her resume and it was quite impressive. I reached out and scheduled a call.
The concept of mini-retirement changed my life. I'm no longer waiting for some retirement paradise when I'm 65. It helps to know how to fund the lifestyle. You know, making money while you sip that piña colada by the beach does help. I wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise.
Yeah, people miss that part. You don't jet out to Puerto Rico with your life savings. Proper investing and a good business acumen are big pluses. Invest in the stock market, real estate, build businesses. That's just it.
Safe to say not everybody has the skill to pursue investing. But it's always easy to follow the advice of someone who knows how to i.e a financial advisor. You could anywhere between 10--40k with the right ones. Online businesses are a good bet too if you are savvy.
I think most people want to try out a financial advisor, but the amount of information on the internet is overwhelming. Could recommend any good one(s)?
Her name is “Annette Christine Conte” can't divulge much. Most likely, the internet should have her basic info, you can research if you like
I just googled her and I'm really impressed with her credentials; I reached out to her since l need all the assistance l can get. I just scheduled a caII.
Gotta admit, being 40 years old with a $2 million net worth is phenomenal work. You did it, my guy! If you feel stressed, scale back slightly - you’re doing great.
Yes he need to just relax. No need to spend your mid years killing yourself. It’s ppl out here with real problems
In Seattle (where the caller is based, as am I), you're a little ahead, but that's it. Here, the median house is inching towards $1M. If you got in at a lower price, that's fine, but if you're getting in today, that means you only have at best $1M in investment assets to count towards retirement. Middle class here, using the 2/3 - 2x median income definition, is $80-$240k/year. Assuming you making on the higher end of that range, lets say $200k, you're at 5x income @ 40 years old. At that income+age, you should ideally have at least ~4x income saved for retirement by then (the higher your income, the higher these targets become due to social security being less of a contributor to retirement).
So, being 1x income ahead is nice, but you're not doing that much better than what you should be doing. Now, compared to how most people save, this is amazing, but most people are way behind on their retirement savings, so I don't consider than a meaningful comparison.
He doesn’t really have a 2 million net worth cuz he owes a lot of money still on those houses and we don’t kno if he has any of debts or not
Ya and he actually earned it all himself. Now though he needs to enjoy his family, he needs to slow down and do just 9-5. It's nice to be rich but kids will choose you being there over an extra house.
@@littleripper312 the best leg up you can give your adult kids isn't your own money.
It's a financial education and moderately low rate (sat 80% market value or so) renting them living space in your own home to them and investing that money in a fund for them until the day comes they have to move for reasons that aren't you.
Giving them that time buffer (ideally at least ten years, but the length of that buffer is up to them) without having to line someone else's pocket (but forcing them to build fiscal responsibility as a landlord charging rent) is HUGE for their financial future.
At 63, I retired TO a part-time job that I love and feel productive at!!! It is not stressful like my full-time job was and for sure I have more FREE TIME to hang out with my other retire friends
For sure !!! I am retiring next yr at 55 with 3 houses paid off worth 4.5 million . One is my place of residence the other 2 properties will give me $80,000per/yr rent . I will have an income stream of $20,000 per yr through my super which gives me total $100,000 a yr to live comfortably . I have no debts
That is so amazing, I’m trying to get onto the housing ladder at 40. I wish at 55 I will be testifying to similar success..
What I think everyone need is an adviser, who can help you get in and out of any investment at any time and you'd sure be in Profit. With this I feel anyone can basically achieve financial freedom.
Opportunities comes infrequently, Investing saves more than saving, Invest now to achieve financial Independence. I engage on different sectors with becky lou gordon
Opportunities comes infrequently, Investing saves more than saving, I engage on different sectors with
Becky
lou
gordon
"It isn't sustainable" is the entire point. You do it intensely for a while so you don't have to do it forever.
Exactly how long is a while though? 2yrs? 5yrs? a decade?
@@foxhound34 was about 10 years for me. You'd have to be investing a shi*t load or getting very lucky to do it in 2! It's not for everyone though. You'd obviously have waay more disposable income if you spend 50 years saving for retirement than if you try do it in 10 or less.
@rudolphteperberry3888 I'll be happy to retire at 55. I don't really want to work myself to death, just to get an extra few years of retirement, knowing I will most like be "working" while in retirement.
@@foxhound34 Indeed individual cases are so different, just need to find the balance that works for you ✌
This caller is illustrating a real phenomenon in the FIRE community - many people have trouble enjoying their money. They work and work and work and save and save and save for 20 years with not much else in between, and it becomes ingrained in their head. Then they retire at 40 and have a real tough time changing their attitude around money - spending it stresses them out. Not everyone faces this problem but many like the caller do
This man needs to stop working three jobs. He already admits he's getting sick, and he's neglecting his family. He'll end up dying early and will never make retirement - all for naught.
or possibly divorced if his wife feels like he's neglecting her or the kids.
He has done impressively though. Time to dial back a bit
its an addiction, it's a stronger addiction than a drug addiction. I am in a similar situation as this poor fellow, there is no way out.
I need to kno what the 3 jobs are cuz how does he had 3 jobs but only work 12 hours a day? I do that at my one job. I think and I could be wrong. He’s including being a landlord as a job which it is in a sense but it’s not.
Exactly. I work at least 10 hours a day on one job, and it kills me to always hear everyone relate their work to "40 hours a week"
I needed to hear this. I've achieved a level a wealth, but I'm still running from poverty.
It's better than running toward poverty and not realizing it, like most Americans.
That’s better than becoming wealth and then living far beyond your means. 👏🏾👏🏾
Not the worst problem to have.
Same, which is why iv scaled back.
Me too
FIRE is not the problem here, the problem is this guy himself...
He got addicted to stacking cash. Weird problem to have.
200 percent. I could tell from the second he started talking he is the kind of person who works 3 jobs and never shuts the fuck up about it
@@bensheard3969😂😂😂 now now he works 4 jobs now so you must listen to his pain
I think this guy proved that FIRE is alive. He did the FI part, now he just needs to RE. That's the easy part
He seems a little narcissistic honestly...but recognizing his ego was a first step.
When you achieve Financial Independence but forget to Retire Early, you are doing F.I.R.E. wrong.
That's not what FIRE is. Technically, I am financially independent. But I am want to keep working. FIRE gives you choices to move to a different career or quit your job if you don't don't like it. Or you can take a sabbatical year and go back to work.
I’m pro-FI but not RE
@@mikezerker6925 me too. I do like the idea of sabbatical years or taking 6 months off every now and then. When you are F.I., it gives you so many options.
F.I.R.E. is inherently wrong. The only worthy bit is the the F.I.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 I don't agree, but I respect your opinion. If you want to retire early and travel the world or do volunteer work. Go for it. I like the F.I. part. And taking time off every few years.
It’s only unsustainable when you believe in an 8% withdrawal rate
🤣🤣
This gets the best comment award
🤣🤣right. Classic Dave
The point of pursuing FIRE is to avoid being a slave to your job.
This guy is a slave to his jobs.
He's not pursuing FIRE, in the way most people pursue FIRE.
hes addicted to work.
no mate, the FIRE movement is about working hard at first, and then relax into retirement
I have friends who are retired. Their lifestyles are more modest than mine but when they get sick and don't have to worry about going into the office I'm envious of them. Also retirement in FIRE isn't about ending work, it's about ending mandatory work.
I dont have to work when im sick...what kind of backwards stuff is that...i get like 3 weeks sick time a year
Exactly. I'm looking at retiring from Tech to someplace overseas and working in alternative healing / spiritual modalities and slow traveling. It's not about not working, it's about doing what you want without the stress and hassle of building a nest egg and riding the hamster wheel simultaneously for the long term.
@@canadianjatti most Americans have to work when sick
You're not retired if you're still working. You people love to make us useless acronyms
@@fusionreaperIt's barista fire 😎
I was growing wealth well, then lost everything, everything, including my health. I became homeless.
Now, I depend on my daughter for housing. I can’t change my health issues, but I know wealth is not the key to life. I am content with what God has blessed me.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you lose everything financially after growing wealth?
@Westcoastguy If insurance doesn't cover anything for whatever excuse they come up with, american healthcare can all too easily cost you everything. Suppose that may have happened as for many people unfortunately.
...illness induced poverty...?...
...oh thanks god...such wonderful "blessings"...
That’s pathetic you’re dependent on your daughter and you’ve given up. Keep leaching off you’re daughter I’m sure that’s a good idea
@@user-mf4gz3sp1qliving in america and other alike developed countries, still enjoying the best living conditions in the world
FIRE is essentially the same thing Dave preaches about Gazelle intensity and Beans & rice. This guy just went overboard and neglected his family.
Sometimes when you hit that intensity it’s hard to slow back down
But gazelle intensity refers to paying off debts, not intensity straight from baby step 1 to baby step 7.
I agree, Dave just can't admit his whole philosophy is basically FIRE with slight twist.
@aleksanderilic5346 it's not. You're grossly exaggerating.
@@aleksanderilic5346 The only similarity in the baby steps to FIRE is step 2. Everything else is completely different. FIRE advises people to make as much money as possible and save 50% or more of your income. Dave recommends you save 15% of your income and live within your means.
The big problem I have with FIRE is exactly this guy's situation - he's so focused on saving for this "better" life tomorrow that he's missing out on life now. Which is a terribly stupid way to live life because there is NO GUARANTEE that he'll live to see all his work pay off! Add to that missing time with kids who will never be the same age they are now again and FIRE to me just sounds like a good way to miss out on what's really important in life.
My mother was a super saver and retired when she turned 50... she has ZERO REGRETS and we had plenty of family time. She was a medical doctor though and frugal, so she didn't have to work 2 jobs etc.
Uuaaaauuu congratulations to your mom. This is where I want to be when I turned 50. Right now I'm 36 and I'm 50% of FI hope to get full FIRE within 10 years and retire between 50 to 55 maximum 😊.
Saw the video’s name and said “oh that’s going to piss some people off 😂” lol
Same. I was like "i HAVE to see this one" lol
Some people get triggered when you lie to them.
I think about half of us are clicking for that, popcorn ready over here, who wants some 😂 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
Salty FIRE boys rise up
@@Saixjacketnom nom nom
FIRE movement is still burning strong 🤷♂️
Yep, I watch videos and take online classes from these "retired" people all the time
Yep I’m still doing it but I only work 1 job and take time out for myself. It’ll take me longer but it won’t destroy my health. Goal is to get to enjoy being wealthy not seeing my wealth from a hospital bed.
We are fire, in a we are Sparta voice
FI-RE it is being free to create your own path without sacrificing your loved ones and your life, even if this means having to work even after the age of 35.
Those with high salaries can retire at 30/35 years of age.
Health comes first. Without health, you’re just wasting your time
Health is wealth, especially in the U.S.A
Ok, I had to Google "FIRE movement." Honestly, I regret not jumping all over that when I was in my early 20s. This guy has made it financially. He needs to ring that bell and focus on his family, especially his kids, while he's still got plenty of good years left. I'd love to be in his position right about now.
Yes this a very good place to be really. I'm 36 and halfway of Financial Independence, I don't even need to save any dime and my money will compound so I can be full FI within 10 years. I'm taking ease now from my 9-5 and started enjoying life more with my husband. I'm taking international trips every 4 months and I'm loving it. I would say all those years of being frugal so I would save/invest was worth it.
The easiest way to tell the difference between a million and a billion is that a million seconds is 12 days, a billion seconds is 31 years
WOW!!!! I’ve never ever heard that. Amazing perspective 😮
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I'm a 48-year-old doctor feeling burnt out from long hours and stress. I've never invested in a retirement portfolio because I've always believed the economy would collapse eventually. However, I plan to retire soon and I'm curious: If you had $100k to invest safely in stocks over 4-5 years to grow, how would you start?
My success was largely based off of a single, simple approach (portfolio Management) but remember, investing is a journey, not a sprint - take your time, stay patient, and stay focused on your long-term goals.
At the end of the day, there's no one particular way of bridging that gap. but starting to save early and investing in the financial markets can never go wrong. if I were to start over in 2024 with less than $50k I would still use the portfolio management play-book.
think you could suggest any professional/advisors i can get in touch with? i'm in dire need of proper portfolio allocation
'Kristin Amber Landis' is the licensed advisor I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with to set up an appointment.
Thanks for sharing. I curiously searched for her full name and her website popped up immediately. I looked through her credentials and did my due diligence before contacting her.
I have a 900k NW. I'm 38 years old. House is paid off worth 200k and fully renovated/ very energy efficient. I can sell covered calls each month on my portfolio to fund my low expenses and not touch my investments. Now I'm starting a part time business. I am DONE with corporate America. FIRE works and I am living proof.
I'm around 500k-600k in investments (mainly stocks). I hope to be where you are someday. 👍
I retired at 52, sold my paid for house, took that money, spent half on a condo in Mexican beach town, invested the other half in stocks, selling covered calls and collecting dividends covers my living expenses, I will be collecting a pension in 3 years, have an IRA, other investments
@drewj4297 I'm 41 and have the same plan. What town in MX if you don't mind me asking?
@@Deltron6060 Puerto Vallarta
$200k? Where do you live Nebraska? Or is it just really small. No house is worth under $700k where I live.
Dave disliking FIRE is like two almost identical spidermen fighting each other. It’s so close to his own values, set goals and sacrifice to be sustainably happy with a reasonable lifestyle of your own creation, but he can’t stand the teeny tiny differences.
There’s a drastic difference between HAVING TO work to survive and having savings. Daves plan is more a 60 year retirement than 35-40
@@DT-tp6vmDave makes a very good point about FIRE. There are extreme FIRE proponents that don’t build a life for the senses, all they do is count pennies and think that they can’t live a life until they have reached their FIRE number
Dave has never suggested that you should sacrifice having a life so you can build a financial portfolio. That’s sociopathic. It’s not a tiny difference. This dude is throwing away the experience of raising his children so he can maximize his investments. No amount of money can buy back that time. Daves whole philosophy is about freeing yourself from debt so you can live your life freely, not enslaving yourself to building the biggest pile of gold at the expense of having a life. You’ve completely missed the point.
Dave wants you to live like fire for a year or two to get ahead. To live your entire 20-40s like this is not the way to live. Get your debt paid be smart with money and enjoy life. People who want to not work haven’t had long periods off. It is boring and depressing. The type of job that makes enough to do fire you can get a decent job with those skills.
@@cawheeler27no, that's exactly what he recommends. Beans and rice, gazelle intense. Ring any bells?
He did reach FIRE; just didn’t know when to let off the gas, so the numbers do work.
Dave's correct on this one. Being a millionaire doesn't mean you live a life of leisure. I've got a net worth of around $3M I have zero debt. I also go to work every day. I do spend more money on wants than I did when I was 20. But there's no private jet, I have two Fords in the driveway, I might take one or two trips (3-4 days each) a year. But overall my lifestyle hasn't changed much. But I do rest easy knowing that if I lost my job or decide to do something else, that it wouldn't ruin me financially. But yeah, being a millionaire in 2024 is not the same thing as being a millionaire in say 1955.
You don't feel like you can retire with that net worth? is all your NW wrapped up in a house where you can't generate income from it?
@@jasonw8497 That’s my thought as well. A 4% withdrawal rate on $3M is $120k/year indefinitely unless most of the NW is in none interest accruing assets. Even then, a $1M home paid for home with $2M in the market is still $80K/year. I’m not sure your lifestyle, but I could easily retire with that and take a few reasonable trips a year, eat out semi-regularly, and work only if I felt like it.
100%
@@jasonw8497 3 million is a safe investment account is only going to make you around 90k a year because generally you can only rely on a 3% rate of return if you want a really low risk account. No way in hell I woul retire on 9k a year. Then again, I do not think I will retire until I am a billionaire which based on my math and compound interest I would nto hit until I am 100 years old. By that point we will have trillionaires in the world lol.
@@jasonw8497 Speculation here but typical real world numbers from my experience: $3M net worth means he probably has $1M in non-liquid assets and $2M in investments and savings. $2M gets you about $80k a year in income if you follow the 4% rule. To obtain $3M net worth for retirement at say age 55 or 60 you probably make well over $80k a year. Closer to $200k a year for most probably. I'm making a lot of assumptions here again. So if you want to retire financially similar to how you have lived while working on that $200k income, you need $4M or so in investments but you could reduce that a little by accounting for no longer paying a mortgage, investing etc.... I'm sure you know this but laying it out often explains things. I personally want to retire financially better than I am while working.
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Hes got 3 jobs and 3 rental houses, he needs to pick his favorite of each, drop everything else, have no debt and go forward.
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Being the child of an amazing man who was also a workaholic, boy, I'd love to hear from his kids and his wife...
To Matt - Sell one or two of your houses now, pay off the first two houses. Then take a well-deserved vacation with your family. Give yourself some grace, and be the superdad for your wife and kids.
Yup. Sell the houses. Take the cash and buy ETFs. Houses are not immediately liquid. If rates are high and you can’t find a buyer then what? I’m speaking from experience. You’d never have a problem immediately getting paid for selling shares of VOO. Also VOO pays dividends and is NEVER late and never ever needs a repair or a renter. 📈> 🏠 for the most headache free way to build wealth.
I retired early. Best decision I’ve ever made.
What’s early and what do you do now?
@@reese85 I retired at 58 and now I do anything and everything I want on my own timetable. It’s incredibly liberating.
@@cato451Lol 58??? Isn't that just called... Retired?
@@cato451congrats
I’ll be retired before 40. I love the FIRE movement but most people won’t follow through with it
🚨 Honey alert! Dave called him honey! 🚨 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He didn’t call me honey when I called in. Lol.
It was cute 🥰
As a nurse who works with acutely sick people. Enjoy your time. Don’t focus all on money and retirement. Spend time with your family. You don’t know what tomorrow brings
From paying for day care and college, to managing mortgage payments. I'm approaching retirement yet the economy is getting worse. How can I generate more income to retire with at least $1m for long term care? I have about 80k in savings.
We share common goal, making sure you are ready for your later years is very important. I'd suggest you consider financial advisory.
@@CurbalnkYou're right, I and a few Neighbors in Bel-Air Area work with an advisor who prefers we DCA across other prospective sectors. Instead of a lump sum purchase, Following this, my portfolio grew by close to 30% in the last quarter.
I've experimented with a few over the past years, but I've stuck with the popularly ‘’Jennifer Leigh Hickman” for about five years now, and her performance has been consistently impressive. She’s quite known in her field, look her up.
Dave, people don't want to work 40 years to enjoy a few years left to live. People don't live to work, they work to live. You may live to work and some people may live to work. I'm 100% okay with that. However some people would rather spend time doing other things with their life and that's why they FIRE.
I did Coast FIRE and have just over $1Million at 40 and now don’t save anymore and have fun with all our income and don’t have to worry about saving anymore
I'm glad the comment section is smart enough to realize that FIRE isn't the problem
Me, too.
EVERYTHING in life requires moderation and balance
Except alcohol! Drink up!
My wife has this problem. Financially, we are doing PHENOMENAL, but she seems to think we need to chase our tails with the same income growth standard all throughout our "we did enough" years
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I wish I learned about FIRE when I was 20. I’d be retired by now. They teach you to go to school, then work for 40 years and retire when you’re an elderly person. So I’ll have maybe 10 years to enjoy my elder life before I croak.
Who taught you that? Your teachers literally said this? What are their names and school district?
Pretty sure it was your parents
@@zybard01society teaches this.
Your wrong on this particular matter Dave.
The capitalist economy rings you dry then let's you stand aside since it costs more to keep you working than you make corporations.
Half of people who make it to 65 will live past 85. If you’re a healthy, non overweight, non smoker at 65 your average life expectancy is closer to 90. So you’ll have 20-25 years to enjoy your retirement. 20 years is a real lot of time for hobbies when you don’t have many other responsibilities to worry about
I retired at 52 a couple of years ago. My lifestyle is the exact same as when I was working. 4.7% draw on my savings projected to last me until 95 with over 85% confidence. Annually adjustments as needed to keep on track, and spending smile assumptions allow the larger initial draw down than the 4% rule.
FIRE worked for me. I quite working at 50. I have not worked in 10 years and still have a 3 million net worth, 2 pensions checks every month and social security coming in a few years.
Work sucks. I never had a job that I liked and will never work again. Life is too short to waste.
If you think work sucks, nothing works for you. The irony of your last sentence is you are now wasting your life
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 Only a PATHETIC individual would think someone is "wasting their life" because they HATE work and never have to work a job again. That is a BLESSING, not a waste, you nutcase.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 Most people are wasting their lives at meaningless jobs that could go away in an instant. Just one example of many I could give: Most healthcare jobs would go away if people stopped eating highly processed foods.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 Where in the world do you come up with that crap? How can you assume he's wasting his life? Do you even know what he's doing every day? If not, then STFU. Seriously.
And yes, work sucks for many people. We can't all find our niche in life when it comes to earning an income. It's okay. There's more to life than having a job you enjoy and are passionate about. About 20% of people are passionate about their work. That means that 80% of people would in fact be better off finding something they are passionate about to spend their time doing, even if it doesn't make money. I have plenty of things I am passionate about. I have a hard time finding a way to make money off of them. I don't HATE my job, but there's no way I'd be doing it over 100 different activities/hobbies I enjoy, or spending time with people I care about if I didn't have to. That doesn't mean I'd be "wasting my life" just because I didn't have a job, especially if I already have enough money to do the things that matter more to me.
Pretty incredible logic jump to say he is wasting his life, when you have zero clue what he even does.
This isn't proof that FIRE doesn't work or burned out. This is 100% proof FIRE works lol. Dude's 40 with 2 million net worth, sounds to me he's ready to retire early, free lance, and spend time with his family.
Yup. He needs to chill and relax now.
You can’t eat your net worth. If he wanted to sell all the houses and cash out retirement savings with taxes and penalties to live off then it might
@@DBS472 or he could freelance, as I suggested, and start cash flowing from his investments instead of constantly reinvesting the money. Hell he could quit two of his 3 jobs and just work a normal salary, Max IRA and reduce his 401k to company match if he needs more income each money. The point is if he has been saving 100k per year right now, he can easily take back some of his time and still be financially set, which is the entire purpose of the FIRE movement.
@@DBS472oh dang, you’re a moron, that’s too bad…😢
The point was sustainability. If you can hack it maybe it's good. If you wreck your life in the process not so much.
Everybody has problems with the concept of subjectivity
As i approach my first million I really like what Dave said about what a Millionaire really is especially with a Toyota Corolla in my driveway. I do not agree with him discrediting the fire movement as it has a lot of positives and alligns with a lot of what he teaches it taught me to save my money and put away and invest which is basically how I got to where I am today.
Some people the FIRE movement is best. If you are single or have no kids and if you and your spouse goal isnt working until you have 1 foot in the grave I say go for it.
All the money in the world means nothing if you don't have a life to live with it!
I hated this response. I would have much preferred they walk through the numbers with him like they do with other callers. They barely even let him speak!
Which job provides benefits and pays the best? If that was your only job, what would you make? What do the rentals make? Is that enough to pay the mortgages on your rental properties? Etc.
Thank you. They didn’t ask any important questions to his income. How much was owed on all the properties not just the 3 rentals. Nothing about any other debts, nothing.
They desperately want to push the "FIRE doesnt work" narrative.
yes, his response was terrible. It was like don't have any aspirations like me and make loads of money and get super rich. We don't know anything about the cashflow these properties are producing. Or if he took any spare cash and paid them off, how much cashflow would they then generate. How much is his expenses? If he's burned out could he move to another location and live of the cashflow and then spend 7 days a week with his family if he wanted to?
A lot of us in the FIRE movement still have balance and are with our families. If I take my son to the park instead of a trampoline park (and save the money) I feel just fine about it. No clue why Dave is against fire. He is looking at the extremes.
He doesn't like anything that doesn't 100% conform to HIS WAY of doing things.
You get balance in your life when you are financially independent. this caller isn't independent. He's got a long way to go. Pay off those houses first.
Hey the FIRE thing made him a multi millionaire at 40 so you can’t just say it sucks. Unsustainable long term solution? Sure
No way, FIRE is alive an well!
As a FIRE achiever at the age of 40, the trick is to know when its time to be done. Too much greed runs through people, and there is no means to an end. Get a number, and make it your goal. Once you hit that number, be done! No 2 week notice to your employer! Just stop showing up! lol
Retirement means assuming a new role, it doesn't mean to entirely stop working and earning.
This man is not worth $2 million. He said he had around $1.3 million equity including his 3 rentals AND his primary home, plus about $350,000 in savings & 401k/IRA’s which = $1,650,000. Also many finance experts suggests looking at what is your net worth after excluding your primary home because its the other investments that work for you toward retirement. (Although it’s obviously a big plus to have no mortgage payment at 65.) So his investable net worth is closer to $1,070,000 (40% equity in the three $1.8 million rental houses plus $350,000 in savings/401k/IRA’s ). Not bad at age 40, but certainly not $2 million!
Also, there were a lot of questions that Dave didn’t ask to ease this guy’s anxiety. How would Dave know whether the caller would be living paycheck-to-paycheck after quitting his other 2 jobs without asking: What do you do for a living? How much are you making in your primary job? What are your annual living expenses? Does your wife work? How many kids do you have? How much net income after all expenses are you bringing in on the 3 rentals? How many hours a month do you spend managing your rentals? These are basic questions to ask before giving this guy advice.
Also, I think Dave was getting dangerously close to “not making sense behind the microphone” when he suggested the caller at age 40 with x number of kids, a wife, and 4 mortgage payments should quit all 3 jobs for a year. Dave said, “He could easily get those kind of jobs again.” How does he know that??? He never asked the caller what kind of jobs he had while working 85 hours a week!
The caller implied he was making $200,000/year working 85 hours per week. (He said he saved about $100k/year which was half his income, and worked 12 hour days.) To make $200k/year working 85 hours/week you have to average around $45 per hour! There are not many jobs making that kind of money…and certainly not many where you can quit and easily come back to a year later.
Lastly, I may be wrong but don’t think he was maxing out his 401k’s/IRA’s ($23,000/year under age 50) PLUS making another $100,000 to invest = $123,000/year saved. I think his total was $100k including all sources.
This guy needs to go to a Dave recommended CFP and get a financial plan set up for the next 25 years.
The caller said he'd be paycheck to paycheck if he cut down to one job AFTER maxing out his 401k contributions. That is not paycheck to paycheck.
If i was 18 again, I'd absolutely do this for 10 years and retire overseas and go have a family and never work again. It'd be fantastic.
The FIRE movement is still alive and strong, Dave's completely wrong!
Good advice. My fiance and I make 65k each and have discussed getting second jobs to save for a home. We decided against it so we can actually enjoy time together once we're married and have a life.
One doesn't need 2-3 jobs to FI/RE. Just live a modest life and live below your means. Saving and investing at an early age offers the best chance of retiring early in itself.
Why Is Deloney automatically assuming that he’s afraid of going home? Dude can’t help himself from turning every call into an “are you safe”-situation
Well … your reaction exemplifies the problem. There’s some reason the guy’s not going home. I don’t think JD thinks anyone’s going to physically abuse the guy, but that the guy is incapable of emotional connection to his wife and children. And maybe if someone asks this guy to think about why he doesn’t want to go home, he can grow and stop making excuses. You may be one of those dudes who thinks growth is for wusses or that men should get to a certain point in their psychological and emotional development and just stop - usually around age 12. But other people want to live full meaningful lives. You should feel free to be your best tween self.
When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
As soon as he made that comment I stopped listening
Caller: The sky is blue.
Baloney: ***Long dramatic pause*** Are you safe?
😂😂
FIRE is definitely not the problem here. He did it. He's just having trouble flipping the switch to coasting. Quit the jobs today, and he can be financially independent at the age of 40 and never have to worry about money ever again. He's done way better than most.
Being debt free at 48 was a huge blessing. I work from home and can go anywhere. Relationships mean everything; things do not.
If you don't know where you're going, you'll keep on driving until you run out of fuel!
Funny how Dave can say that FIRE doesnt work when it clearly worked (and is still working) for this guy. He was able to save, max out his retirement accounts, and he has several real estate properties at the age of 40 because of his involvement in the FIRE movement. We dont know what the caller's goal is, but he could possibly not have to work for the rest of his life or at the least heavily cut back on work hours.
FIRE isnt supposed to be easy and it actually has a lot of similarities to the Baby Steps.
Balancing home and work life is not always easy.. I understand what this guy is feeling
Yeah, but clearly, he needs to lose one of those jobs, at a minimum.
Meh. I can't sympathize. The decision looks incredibly easy to me. Quit 2 jobs. Sell 2 properties. Be debt free and work the job you enjoy most moving forward.
I would LOVE to be in his position, because I would instantly have a better work life balance than him. Within 48 hours. And have a strong net worth.
FIRE is not supposed to be sustainable. You are supposed to work your @$$ off in your 20's so that you have the freedom to do what you want later in life.
It's not even about that. It's more about saving a crapton and not spending on stupid crap that made Dave Ramsey go bankrupt. People seem to be incapable of nuance. They think FIRE means working 168 hours a week and retiring at 32. It doesn't. To me I think anyone who can retire before 59.5 is FIREing. Dave just gets jealous of people who don't have to work.
Agree with what Dr John said about he still owes 900k on the property he has, I think that is the key of his problem. We are also into FIRE , but no longer wanting to quit at age of 47, even though we still could . But we actually enjoy our jobs, granted not every day is rainbows and unicorns. Point is to enjoy your work and life, still save a decent rate. We put away 52% if calculated base on AGI, not including kids investment such. I am 42 and hubby 45. We achieved the millionaire ( not counting home equity) 5 yrs ago, but no debt for our investment is why we felt that there is no pressure . Our goal is to retire 55 and 58. Which I still thinks it’s FIRE, but with a more reasonable age. Good luck to folks wish to FIRE .
Sounds like a "Cat's in the Cradle" thing.
My aim at the moment is to be worth $2 mil by age 65, but I understand the caller's emotions, the more you have the more you think you need.
This video is kind of a jaw dropper from title, to the guys mental makeup at 40, spilling all that out within 2 minutes, to Ramsey actually telling someone to chill tf out. This one hits hard and fast my word.
The FIRE movement is alive and well thank you very much …this gentleman needs to understand that he made it congratulations…time to get a part time job just to cover health insurance and enjoy time with your family and friends…also speak to a financial advisor you seem lost …
Part time job for health insurance? Where do I sign up for that unicorn? Financial advisor? Hard stop there too.
The FIRE process worked for him, he's just in the same phase many Ramsey followers get to where they don't know how to switch mentally to actually enjoy life. Now it's a take it slower and enjoy life a bit and his family. He's good, Ramsey's prob just a lil ticked cause the guy showed the #'s did work for him.
I'm 40 Years old and pretty much retired. Worked my butt off in the Car Business from the ages 18-38. I've never even heard of the FIRE movement until this video. I have ~$3.5 Million Net Worth, but I can totally relate to this guy. It took so much for me to hang it up a couple of years ago, but my 5 year old son at the time was more important to me. These have been the best 2 years of my life, spending them with my boy. And my health is 1000 times better these days also - Stress and overworking is a REAL THING and will kill you. Time is a commodity that we often overlook - YOU CANNOT GET IT BACK. Choose your battles wisely. God Bless you all...
It was happenstance this showed up on my feed today and im glad. I can relate to the caller so much and helped hearing what dave had to say. Sonetimes our own expectations are unrealistic and in the mad rush to earn money, you forget to live life
Hustling three jobs just to take out massive debt on four properties…he was so close yet so far away
Not really
But the homes are paying for themselves. Even if he only kept the homes let's say 5 years he could still sell and make money off the appreciation. Yes he took a big risk, but if done right there's a big payoff.
he has equity he is doing well
Dave liter said he has a 4 mill net worth and made sure to calculate his equity into that. I know this the anti debt channel. But he is objectively doing well. He just said he could quit everything and have a 50k salary for life that will increase overtime. Seems like the fire method worked he just isn't mentally ready to reap his rewards
I’m genuinely surprised Deloney didn’t ask him, “Are you safe?”
The man is working 3 jobs, he’s emotionally checked out, and he’s asking a legitimate question. If a woman were in his shoes, I guarantee their tone would be different.
Hmm I wouldn’t invested in dividend stocks instead and called it a day . Buying rental properties can just be another job.
I know right. If he put it in the s and p he'll be making about 120k a year doing nothing. If you can't live of 120k a year then you have spending issues
The moment he said his health was deteriorating none of it is worth it anymore. Dial back and spend time with family. Balance is key.
My goal is to instead of "Retire Early", is instead to only work on things that I love.
Work is healthy for the soul, but choose the work you love.
So much category confusion here. He could literally quit all his jobs now, scale back his spending and investing, and be retired at age 40. The fact that he doesn't quit his job doesn't mean "FIRE" itself has proven "unsustainable"; it means he's not willing to do the RE part, which is a different thing.
Like many financial concepts, F.I.R.E. is often misunderstood.
I’m FIRE and it not bulshit.
Keep working and build your dreams.
It is bullshit. Retiring early is aasinine.
This exact same thing happened to me at 40 with reevaluation of my life. Time and how I spent my time was important to me. I was so concerned over making money and providing for a family and I realized the time with family and loved ones was being impacted. I had a thought that not being able to cover life’s expenses (FIRE) by passive income was a dangerous position. Meaning only supporting myself with a job was dangerous and it is. But not as dangerous as I perceived. There’s a healthy and stable mix that can be found. This caller once he settles into a comfortable mix for him is going to be just fine. You don’t have to do it all or do nothing. You now have the luxury of how much time vs money you feel is comfortable for you. It will take a few iterations of trying out ratios there to find one that fits for the moment. And then things change in life and you’ll try out another ratio. For me learning it was a balance that puts time with family first was a mental step I had to get settled in my heart and mind.
The caller has no idea what "living paycheck to paycheck" really means. He's being melodramatic.
The fire movement hasn’t burned down lol what is he talking about. So of course Dave is against it. It doesn’t help promote his brand.
Exactly.
Dave hates that FIRE people know better than to invest with his financial advisors.
Running from poverty.. it is real. Especially for people who grew up without, they will fight every second to keep up the “winning streak.” To keep saving and investing.
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Not sure why they are hating on FIRE - it has similar concepts to what they teach and have teachings that would benefit many of their listeners. There are also like 10 variations of FIRE and not all of them are extreme.
It goes against Ramsey’s business and teachings so they automatically shun it.
Dave cares more about branding and having you do things his way. Rather than whats actually best for the person.
He literally doesn't like it because its not his plan. Thats why. He will make up reasons bit its all justify his 7 steps.
People have to pay attention. He’s not hating on it he’s simply saying that it’s not sustainable. Most people who do FIRE would mostly save until they have a little over a million in investments and then quit their jobs hoping that at 40 their investments will last them until 80 and that would only be possible if you keep your lifestyle to a complete minimum in which here in America, that’s definitely not possible especially with inflation, taxes, kids, unexpected expenses, and lifestyle creep. The best and most long term plan is to live a life of balance and moderation but with intention. What’s it worth to the caller to be worth $2M-$3M at 40 with health complications & your kids are distant from you? That’s hell on earth to me 🤷🏾♂️✊🏾
@@insure4cheap$80k-120k/year is living at a minimum? Ok...
It's extremely similar. The difference is Dave wants you to only invest 15%, work until you are 102, and give millions to Christian charities. FIRE simply says invest more, then retire whenever you can, and do whatever the bleep you want.
, there’s a lot of people doing fire that don’t feel this way . I was traveling and doing all kinds of fun stuff while doing my fire plan .
Yup, I max out my accounts and rent a couple rooms in a house. Still travel and do a lot of the things I want. Rest of my friends are living hand to mouth and are house / car poor.
I know this guys feeling. The more wealth that I've built, the stingier I've become with my money. I'm not shortchanging my quality of life, but still have anxiety about saving vs spending money.
FIRE is alive after you retire 20 years from the military ✌️
Eh……depends on what rank you retire at.
I practiced FIRE for about a year, it was great boost to my savings and retirement. I would not do it for that long.
I’ve never enjoyed working and I don’t know anybody that does 😂
working is overrated
Work in some capacity is important. Whether it’s a hobby or not.
A job where you can interact with people and stay social serves a purpose for sure. We’re heading towards barista FIRE ourselves where we intend to work only 2 days a week
You don't speak for me or for a lot of people. The problem is YOU. Did you ever try to get into a line of work that you enjoy? Were you willing to get educated in your chosen field in order to get there? Or (as I suspect is really the case) are you just a lazy bum?
I don’t mind working. It keeps me active
I like working. Not all the time but I like being busy. Idle hands and all that.
The numbers do work
This is a great problem to have, he already accomplished and sacrificed enough. At 40, it is now time for him to stop working 3 jobs, keep only one job and even a side hustle as well if he wants. He can reduce the amount of hours worked, relax and enjoy life.
FIRE is all about living like no one else so you can live like no one else. Feel like I've heard that somewhere else before..
I'll be retired at 55 on fire but I'll probably just drive uber or something easier on my body and mental health. Once i can draw social security i can truly retire and do nothing. I just need a little extra until social security kicks in. Probably drive a few days a week even after i retire, a few hundred a week always helps. It also gives you something to do. Also could just be for vacations and date nights with the wife.
Dave hired this guy to call in so he could discredit Fire. They actually proved the opposite
FIRE discredits itself.
dave gets to rambling there at the end lol
F.I.R.E. movement is sustainable.
He's probably bring in good rental income.
He won't be living paycheck to paycheck.
There is always a risk that with those properties he could lose them over a myriad of things, including mortgages and property taxes.
@@SbzeroGames His mortgage will never increase. Tax increase will be passed down to the tenants.
But they have to be paid off first
@@georgewagner7787 And they will. Stop think that everyone will just stop paying their rent.
Fire works for double income no kids really well. It doesn't work well for families. He should sell two of the houses and keep one investment property.
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Did DR FPU, I was full on FIRE & then we had a baby & I valued my time & enjoyment with my baby more than FIRE. I can always make more money, I can’t make more time. We’ve set up our life so that we don’t have to work 3 jobs while we’re still young & healthy & can scale back working to spend time with our kids & travel. Because we worked hard & saved early in our careers & stay debt-free, we don’t have to add another dime to our RA’s. We aren’t FI yet, but we’ll be able to retire as millionaires & we didn’t have to sacrifice time with our kids or make our lives miserable to do it.