I had a old music prof, who one day, brought the first King Crimson LP, "ITCOTCK, to class. He played every song, and made positive, insightful comments about them. Of Ian's flute playing on "I Talk To The Wind", he said, "This is how a flute should sound. You won't find a more beautiful flute playing anywhere." This happened fifty years ago, and I still have to agree.
I bought that CD for $2 at the Goodwill 6 years ago and proud of it. For the last 2 years I play my Squire Stratocaster E series through a Korg G3 guitar performance processor and 15 watt Marshall amplifier in the style of Mick Ralphs along with that album.
Never seen him interviewed before, but somehow I knew he would be well-spoken, intelligent, modest and sensitive. How else could he compose and play so brilliantly?
I agree. The original Crimson of Fripp, Macdonald, Lake, Sinfield & Giles caught lightning in a bottle. They were the right group at the right time. Any other combination might not have made such an impact, and we wouldn't know of any of them.
that's the inherent agony of a band and the catch 22s. MOST bands, when they burn bright, they burn FAST, like KC or Daisy Chainsaw (who made a landmark psychedelic metal punk record then broke up!) (they were superstars like KC!) and are POOF! I've seen this too many heartbreaking times, even my own bands. THAT'S THE IMPOSSIBLE trade-off of working with ALPHAs versus Regular Musicians. THE MORE GENIUS THE MUSICIAN....the more difficult they are! That's why Metallica wanted Kirk Hammett instead of Dave Mustaine!
CRAZY FACT: all our favorite bands? ALL WERE TOTAL ACCIDENTS....like Chemistry mistakes in a lab, that produce something amazing. WE KNOW it wasn't the Beatles or Led Zep or Pink Floyd's SKILLS that made their great music.....cuz their musics BEFORE and AFTER those bands.... was NOT genius, get it? IT WAS THE CHEMISTRY OF THE 4 MUSICIANS AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. (Hell, most bands of the SAME musicians can't even recapture that magic, years later!) IF LED ZEP were musical geniuses, we'd all own all their SOLO albums, and their OTHER-BAND albums, see? AND ALL WOULD BE AS GOOD AS ZEP, cuz.... SAME genius MINDS. But all found it IMPOSSIBLE to replicate ANY of the magic, in other bands (like The Firm or Coverdale/Page!).....proving it was ACCIDENTAL RIGHT TIME RIGHT PLACE. ex: Dave Gilmour was a BLUES player, who never would've amounted to anything had he NOT JOINED FLOYD...which FORCED him to change his style and be more inventive. ex: had Bill Bruford gone into JAZZ at 21 years old, he'd have never become a legend. But bc he joined YES, who were doing rock etc, NOW his jazz drumming stood out like a sore thumb and blew our minds! What a sobering thought, to realize that even all these legends have little control of their own musics!
Didn't know about his departure. So sad. Another great Crimson member gone... And Ian clearly being so important in the composition, arrangements of In the Court. Beautiful flute, alto sax and harpsicord playing. So modest and humble... speaks well about him. God bless him. RIP Ian.
I met him at a mellotron convention in Toronto shortly after 911. Ian, if you are reading this, I was the guy who mad you mad by asking all those Fripp questions and I am VERY VERY sorry.. I did a lot of growing up since then but thanks for signing my mellotron end block and thanks for the presentation. It was a great pleasure to meet you!!
As a young teen, I caught my mom "cleaning" my room. She was worried about the music I was listening to, and by the looks of ITCOTCK, you couldn't blame her. She would listen on my headphones to I Talk to the Wind regularly! She told me she loved the tune, as well as some of my other albums.
The first incarnation of King Crimson was the best. Same goes for the original six-piece Foreigner line-up. Nothing is ever going to beat that and Ian McDonald vastly contributed to both.
A great many Crimson fans would disagree with you that the 1969 Crimson was the best one. The 1973-74 Crimson with John Wetton, Bill Bruford and David Cross is considered by some to be the best live band that ever existed. It depends on whether you prefer your music to be more composed/studio based, or improvisational/stage based.
fabrikk60: Of course I was only talking about my personal preference. :) I should have said that the original line-up was the best in my opinion. :) And you're right that the 1973-1974 incarnation was one of the best live bands ever. I love "Larks't Tongues In Aspic" very much. A couple of years ago I was so fortunate to see the original ASIA line-up and they performed "Book Of Saturday". I thought I had died and went straight up to heaven. :)
+Tatjana Lutz I definitely agree with you. I loved the first Crimson album and I loved a lot of the first three Foreigner albums before Mick Jones turned dictator.
Ian is such a gentleman. Long story but I ended up in correspondence with Ian for a couple of weeks with respect to some musical questions regarding Bill Evans and he was most humble and very honest about his influences for ITCOTKC (Eric Dolphy in particular).
+FinnMove (comment from 6 years ago): "Ian McDonald was somehow the leader of King Crimson instead of Robert Fripp. Check his multi- instrument capibility on the first album. And two songs were written alone by McDonald. I guess In the Wake of Poseidon was Fripp´s answer to McDonald after he had quitted. First three songs are amusing similar in style of Crimson King album." 54spiritedwill54 (Comment from 6 years ago): "I always had the feeling that if it weren't for Ian McDonald, we might have never heard of Bob Fripp." +JosephNScott (Comment from 7 years ago): "Imagine if Lizard had been the first King Crimson album. Might have sold about as well as Cheerful Insanity. What kind of foundation would that have been to build a more-famous-than-Sonny-Sharrock career on, compared to McDonald's melodies?" I think you're all spot-on in your assessments. McDonald was not only, I believe, the most diverse player in the original band (that is, the variety of instruments he could play), but he was also A WRITER. The others contributed ideas, but I suspect that Ian was the most experienced and skilled writer of everyone (which I think may be why they hooked up with him to begin with). Fripp wouldn't/couldn't (I'm sure by his own admission) write something as melodic as McDonald, especially not in 1969. "Cadence and Cascade" was a joint composition: "Flight of the Ibis" on "McDonald and Giles" uses the tune. McDonald also wrote some of "Cat Food," although just how much was apparently a matter of contention. And for years and years I thought that "Pictures of a City" was simply a Fripp/Sinfield rewrite of "Schizoid Man." Then DGM began releasing stuff, and it turns out that part of the track was originally a section of the first lineup's song "Trees," and that they played "Pictures..." in 1969 on their US tour as "A Man, A City." (Yet the credits on "Poseidon" only credit Fripp and Sinfield.) But I was really shocked: Did they not realize that it was, more or less, the same song as "Schizoid Man"? Were they too musically adept to realize that, to a layman like myself, that it would sounds like more or less the same song? Or was it a "variation on a theme," like the more recent tracks like "VROOM" and "VROOM VROOM"? I don't envy the position that Fripp was in when it came time to come up with "Poseidon," though. I probably would have had a nervous breakdown from the pressure--although he did have the Giles brothers, as well as (for a time) Greg Lake to help work things out, provide input, musical or otherwise, and so on. For my taste, "Poseidon" seems to be missing perhaps one more really good track (I find "The Devil's Triangle" kind of tedious.) And then "Lizard," which I personally like a lot, and which was vastly improved by Steve Wilson (although I had to go back and add the VCS3 effects in "Indoor Games" that Fripp made him take out). But if "Lizard" hadn't been a King Crimson album, I doubt it would have been released, let alone recorded. Fripp really didn't find his "voice" until around "Larks Tongues" (the earlier "A Peacemaking Stint Unrolls"--if I have that title right--that's a bonus track on the current issue of "Islands" shows that he'd locked into the "European rock" concept that had been on his mind. But it also shows that the (much maligned) "Islands" band weren't the right players. Ian Wallace's drums are, in my opinion, much too overtly jazz-sounding. And the group had already been through more than enough with each other. Back to the main point: The breakup of KC '69, but particularly the loss of McDonald was, I believe, what forced Fripp into chiseling out his way of doing things. But, as in the comments I quoted above, he probably wouldn't have had the opportunity except that he was writing for the hugely successful 1969 act King Crimson. And much of that success was due to the accessibility of McDonald's melodies, harmonies, pleasant-sounding, non-dissonant or freaky, contributions. So, yeah, I just wrote seven paragraphs restating and agreeing with 6 and 7-year-old comments that everyone already agreed with from the start. At least there's a subject that I'm knowledgeable about.
And what about Sinfield? I guess he was a really important 'voice' in the King Crimson, as Ian Mcdonald said in this interview. I would say that He was more important member than Mcdonald. As I see Robert Fripp and Mcdonald complemented really nicely each other, and Peter Sinfield lyricses really organicly exist with the instruments . Personally I don't like Mcdonald works, after King Crimson, but I really enjoy Robert Fripp's works even with Peter Hammill and Brian Eno in the 70s.
The song "Wake of Poseidon" was a blatant ripoff of "Epitaph". "Pictures of a City" was similar to "Schizoid" but had its own feel. And, of course, "The Devil's Triangle" is Holst's "Mars", and Fripp should have been sued for that.
Nice interview, but I'd like to hear about Ian's contribution to Kg. Cr. with his flute. He was one of the few flute players in rock at the time, along with Ian Anderson, Chris Wood, and Peter Gabriel. His solo on "I Talk to the Wind" is smooth.
@@sheldonwheaton881 Absolutely! Ray was also a great song writer, his solo album, From Mighty Oaks is fantastic. And who could forget, Legend of a Mind!
When I heard the 21C Schizoid Band recordings, I was really blown away by how excellent a bassist Peter Giles is. Not only was he able to replicate Lake, Boz and Wetton things, he added his own ideas that compared really well to the original ones.
I was jamming along to a lot of jazz and classical music, oh yeah... wanting to be a lead guitar virtuoso. I saw Jimi and was a Hendrix freak, playing King Crimson almost as much. It didn't surprise me later on, when I read that Jimi said his favorite English band was King Crimson, hanging out in clubs when they played.
I read how Ian McDonald wanted to rejoin KING CRIMSON during his guest appearances on the 1974 RED album. However, FRIPP chose to disband the group. Whatever reason he had for that, he should have at least allowed the band to do a farewell tour, not only to give IAN a chance to rejoin as a full time member, but also to inform the audience of the decision to retire. Plus, it would have given IAN a chance to perform live with JOHN WETTON & BILL BRUFORD.
I believe that in Sid Smith's book about Crimson, Fripp talks about this situation. I don't have the book handy, so I'll paraphrase: McDonald had played on "Red," and both Wetton and Bruford were in favor of McDonald rejoining on a permanent basis (to replace Cross, I assume). Fripp, however, had already lost heart in the band and was moving towards the J.G. Bennett/Gurdjieff stuff. In the book, he says something to the effect (again, paraphrased from memory) that he was dealing on one side with copious consumption of alcohol and cocaine (Wetton) and a lack of musical taste and subtlety on the other (Bruford). And to this they wanted to add McDonald who, in 1969, cited the fact the he didn't like Fripp's guitar playing as one of his reasons for wanted to leave. Fripp did suggest to Wetton and Bruford (as well as, I think, their management), that since McDonald was a founding member, he could still rejoin, Fripp would leave, and the band could (at least in theory) continue as King Crimson. But he didn't know if anyone had actually tried to go ahead with this idea. One of the things about Sid Smith's book is that, although I believe it's meant to be 'unauthorized," and many people do dish dirt about Fripp. However, Fripp always gets the last word in, usually through what seems to be a well thought out, written explanation of the situation. My favorite comments are from Gordon Haskell. At one point he talks about how during the "Lizard" sessions they would spend 6 or 8 hours just trying to get a drum sound because, oh no, the drums couldn't sound like actual drums, they had to sound *innovative.* Then he says, "They shouldn't have used drums. They should have used my dick." C'mon, Gordon, don't hold back: tell us how you *really* feel! (I actually liked/respected him more for going all-out with his comments.) Anyway, it definitely would have been interesting to hear a Bruford-Fripp-McDonald-Wetton lineup. It's too bad that it wasn't to be. (I didn't get to see the recent live shows, but I'm excited that Mel Collins is back playing his horns, though--a nice added texture to all the super-clean digital effects.)
+psychodelicrock12 It definitely would have been interesting to see Ian McDonald perform with Wetton and Bruford. You would have had the representatives of the two greatest line ups of the band. However, I wonder what would have been going through Fripp's mind. Btw, when the original 69 line up was imploding, Fripp did offer to leave and let McDonald assume control. However, McDonald still wound up leaving and formed the duo McDonald/Giles with Mike Giles and they recorded an album that sounded a lot like "In the Court of the Crimson King".
@@caseykane3845 Ian was meant to replace Robert whilst he went on hiatus, presumably to rejoin at a later date. He pitched the idea to his management, but they shot it down, as they believed there was no king crimson without Robert Fripp (a valid perspective, but I think they should have given McDonald a chance). All of this angered Fripp, and he decided to terminate the group, as they wouldn't let him leave. So, technically, I like to believe that McDonald was a member of 74 King Crimson, if only for a short time.
I think -with an extreme respect to all of above comments- that all of Fripp, Greg Lake, McDonald and Pete Sinfield are all impeccable great musicians regardless of who played in whatever part of any track in Krimson's early albums...
It's a shame the musician "world" associates him primarily with KC, but you're right - his work with Foreigner gave them a hell of an added dimension with Gramm's massive vocals and Jones' penchant for thick-ass riffs.
So interesting hearing the lineup evolution up to ITCOTCK. Especially how the great lyricist Pete Sinfield was brought along. Without his contribution, King Crimson wouldn't have had their stunning visual impact, or even their name!
Ian McDonald was somehow the leader of King Crimson instead of Robert Fripp. Check his multi- instrument capibility on the first album. And two songs were written alone by McDonald. I guess In the Wake of Poseidon was Fripp´s answer to McDonald after he had quitted. First three songs are amusing similar in style of Crimson King album.
Thanks for posting, Ian was a multi instrumentalist like Roy Wood and Mike Oldfield. Doesn't seem to be many around today. On COTCK ~ Sax 21st CSM, Flute ITTTW, mellotron E and COTCK, reeds, vibes, keyboards, vocals. On McD and Giles ~Guitar, Piano,Organ,Sax, Flute, Clarinet, Zither, Vocals. That's impressive. A lot of guys can only play guitar/piano. RW could also play across the family of instruments. Interesting ~ both RW and IM were born the same year and their best stuff in their early 20s
In 1974 McDonald was set to re-join Crimson after the trio of Fripp-Bruford-Wetton recorded the album Red. Fripp-Bruford-Wetton-McDonald even had a working title for the next album: Blue.
ian is great as was that 1st version of KC. right down the line: mellotron,sax,flute,lyricist as group member, early prog guitar, short songs +long songs that looked like outlines for english class,jazzy drum fills, and the whole british nature of it. this version could of should of been huge but now it's better that it lasted in short version it seems so special.
The latest incarnation of King Crimson is the best of all. 3 (!!) world class drummers (Gavin Harrison, Pat Mastelotto, Bill Reiflin), Mel Collins on saxes n flute, the amazing Tony Levin on bass instruments, Jakko Jakzsyk on guitar and vocals, and Robert Fripp on guitar. The 7 headed beast of terror just blew audiences away on their recent US tour. What is the sound of 2500 lower jaws dropping to the floor in the theater?
What bothers me about the first King Crimson band is that they only managed to last a year. With the fame and notoriety Crimson created with their first album and live performances you would have thought they would want to stay together for at least a few years, no matter how bad the relationships of the band members became. But after reading a lot and watching interviews about Crimson since I first heard their debut album in 1970, I came to the conclusion that Robert Fripp was the one most to blame for their first breakup. The ever-changing 1970's Crimson line ups and friction in the band is proof that Fripp was a pretentious perfectionist but also a brilliant musician. I met Adrian Belew after a Crimson concert in 2002, and after he spent a half hour talking to fans and signing autographs, I said to him "Fripp doesn't look as if he likes to mingle with his fans after a concert." and Belew responded "Robert doesn't like anything! [sic]" In the new Crimson documentary Belew made a comment about losing his hair. Fripp was a lot like Frank Zappa in the 1970's, who also changed band members constantly with no line up lasting for more than a couple years. When a great Rock musician reaches the plateau, power and ego can become a catalyst for destruction. It's wonderful to watch Fripp and his wife do the "Sunday Lunch" videos proving that Fripp has mellowed with age. Fripp is one of my biggest influences as a musician and composer.
I love how Ian speaks of Crimson for 5 1/2 minutes in this interview and Foreigner for 2 1/2. When there is nearly nothing to say, best to say nearly nothing....
"I always had the feeling that if it weren't for Ian McDonald, we might have never heard of Bob Fripp." That's absurd. I hardly think Fripp would have been so succesful in the 30 years since he parted company from Mac Donald, if he didn't have a lot of talent himself.
Fripp could play but he really didn't have much to do with the Crimson sound. Ian did! Any guitarist could have filled in for Fripp. Everyone else came up with the riff, and of course the lyrics which turned into the tunes. Without the riff and subsequent lyrics, presto NO SONGS!
they're just doing different things but with the Robert fripp input still very present.have you got your hands on the last album(2003)"The power to believe" and the dvds "deja vroom" and "live in Tokyo2003"? These are,I think,masterwoks too. Besides from that, Robert is the only one who can carry on the name of King Crimson;not to deny the other originals but....
It's a pipe organ with so many keys pressed down on the keyboard (which open the pipes) that the air pump cannot supply enough air to sound all the pipes properly. On one of the retrospective releases of ITCOTCK there is a recording of the session where they are trying things out, muttering things like "It's meant to sound menacing but that just sounds like we can't play" or something like that. They got it right in the end as we can all hear.
played sax on t-rex's bang a gong! amazing sax breaks for foreigner. i always liked his stay in foreigner. poor ian mac the same keeps happening to him; lead guitarist is there bye bye ian. stevie w and traffic would of been a great home for him but they had chris wood so no home for him pretty much invisible for 30 years until recently unless i'm wrong.
How important was the first King Crimson album ? If not for this iconic breakthrough album, Would there ever have been an ELP, a Yes, or all the associated great progressive rock that was to come . You will be remembered, and missed Ian
Nope. Peter Giles played bass on the 2nd record, In The Wake of Poseidon. GL played bass and sang on the first album and subsequent tour. He left the band, but agreed to sing on some of the 2nd record. Ian McDonald was the flute/sax player, and wrote a good portion of the music on the first record.
@beaverteeth92 It'll never happen because Fripp isn't interested in nostalgia. McDonald and Co. (minus Fripp and Lake) have formed The 21st Century Schizoid Band.
In The word of a unstoppable king No one can escape the fate that was chosen for them. All that remains is the result, where you will all perish. Eternal greatness only exists only within myself.Sing a song of sorrow in a world where time has vanish. Diavolo-
I had a old music prof, who one day, brought the first King Crimson LP, "ITCOTCK, to class. He played every song, and made positive, insightful comments about them. Of Ian's flute playing on "I Talk To The Wind", he said, "This is how a flute should sound. You won't find a more beautiful flute playing anywhere." This happened fifty years ago, and I still have to agree.
kinda crazy where that "nutshell" about KC....ends BEFORE he explains EXACTLY why he quit such a fun, fantastic, popular band!!!!!
I too concur
What a cool professor!
Totally agree, Ian`s playing is beautiful and mesmerising
I bought that CD for $2 at the Goodwill 6 years ago and proud of it. For the last 2 years I play my Squire Stratocaster E series through a Korg G3 guitar performance processor and 15 watt Marshall amplifier in the style of Mick Ralphs along with that album.
Sad to hear another great artist has passed..RIP Mr. Ian McDonald.
RiP. What a nice bloke. Very talented.
Never seen him interviewed before, but somehow I knew he would be well-spoken, intelligent, modest and sensitive. How else could he compose and play so brilliantly?
watch John Bonham interviews.
He's so eloquent! You'd expect someone more..... down to earth?
@@jonbongjovi1869He was such a powerhouse drummer obviously, Bonzo’s interviews definitely surprised me.
So sad to lose such an amazing person.
:(
Ian McDonald was great outside King Crimson too. His album with Michael Giles is an absolute killer.
I love the first King Crimson line up.
I agree. The original Crimson of Fripp, Macdonald, Lake, Sinfield & Giles caught lightning in a bottle. They were the right group at the right time. Any other combination might not have made such an impact, and we wouldn't know of any of them.
that's the inherent agony of a band and the catch 22s.
MOST bands, when they burn bright, they burn FAST, like KC or Daisy Chainsaw (who made a landmark psychedelic metal punk record then broke up!) (they were superstars like KC!) and are POOF! I've seen this too many heartbreaking times, even my own bands.
THAT'S THE IMPOSSIBLE trade-off of working with ALPHAs versus Regular Musicians.
THE MORE GENIUS THE MUSICIAN....the more difficult they are!
That's why Metallica wanted Kirk Hammett instead of Dave Mustaine!
CRAZY FACT:
all our favorite bands?
ALL WERE TOTAL ACCIDENTS....like Chemistry mistakes in a lab, that produce something amazing.
WE KNOW it wasn't the Beatles or Led Zep or Pink Floyd's SKILLS that made their great music.....cuz their musics BEFORE and AFTER those bands.... was NOT genius, get it?
IT WAS THE CHEMISTRY OF THE 4 MUSICIANS AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME.
(Hell, most bands of the SAME musicians can't even recapture that magic, years later!)
IF LED ZEP were musical geniuses, we'd all own all their SOLO albums, and their OTHER-BAND albums, see? AND ALL WOULD BE AS GOOD AS ZEP, cuz.... SAME genius MINDS.
But all found it IMPOSSIBLE to replicate ANY of the magic, in other bands (like The Firm or Coverdale/Page!).....proving it was ACCIDENTAL RIGHT TIME RIGHT PLACE.
ex:
Dave Gilmour was a BLUES player, who never would've amounted to anything had he NOT JOINED FLOYD...which FORCED him to change his style and be more inventive.
ex:
had Bill Bruford gone into JAZZ at 21 years old, he'd have never become a legend. But bc he joined YES, who were doing rock etc, NOW his jazz drumming stood out like a sore thumb and blew our minds!
What a sobering thought, to realize that even all these legends have little control of their own musics!
Didn't know about his departure. So sad. Another great Crimson member gone... And Ian clearly being so important in the composition, arrangements of In the Court. Beautiful flute, alto sax and harpsicord playing. So modest and humble... speaks well about him. God bless him. RIP Ian.
He wrote the best tracks of the album together with Sinfield, don't forget that.
One of my music heroes.
You were a special person.
RIP Ian! Music lives on as do you
R.I.P Ian you made some wonderful music
thank you for all the amazing music.
RIP 🙏🕊
I met him at a mellotron convention in Toronto shortly after 911. Ian, if you are reading this, I was the guy who mad you mad by asking all those Fripp questions and I am VERY VERY sorry.. I did a lot of growing up since then but thanks for signing my mellotron end block and thanks for the presentation. It was a great pleasure to meet you!!
As a young teen, I caught my mom "cleaning" my room. She was worried about the music I was listening to, and by the looks of ITCOTCK, you couldn't blame her. She would listen on my headphones to I Talk to the Wind regularly! She told me she loved the tune, as well as some of my other albums.
The first incarnation of King Crimson was the best. Same goes for the original six-piece Foreigner line-up. Nothing is ever going to beat that and Ian McDonald vastly contributed to both.
A great many Crimson fans would disagree with you that the 1969 Crimson was the best one. The 1973-74 Crimson with John Wetton, Bill Bruford and David Cross is considered by some to be the best live band that ever existed. It depends on whether you prefer your music to be more composed/studio based, or improvisational/stage based.
fabrikk60:
Of course I was only talking about my personal preference. :) I should have said that the original line-up was the best in my opinion. :) And you're right that the 1973-1974 incarnation was one of the best live bands ever. I love "Larks't Tongues In Aspic" very much. A couple of years ago I was so fortunate to see the original ASIA line-up and they performed "Book Of Saturday". I thought I had died and went straight up to heaven. :)
theres only one king crimson album...
+Tatjana Lutz I definitely agree with you. I loved the first Crimson album and I loved a lot of the first three Foreigner albums before Mick Jones turned dictator.
+Tatjana Lutz,
I agree 100%!!!!
Ian is such a gentleman. Long story but I ended up in correspondence with Ian for a couple of weeks with respect to some musical questions regarding Bill Evans and he was most humble and very honest about his influences for ITCOTKC (Eric Dolphy in particular).
If you're on facebook, you might be interested in his fan group.
facebook.com/groups/759151907494516/
+FinnMove (comment from 6 years ago):
"Ian McDonald was somehow the leader of King Crimson instead of Robert Fripp. Check his multi- instrument capibility on the first album. And two songs were written alone by McDonald. I guess In the Wake of Poseidon was Fripp´s answer to McDonald after he had quitted. First three songs are amusing similar in style of Crimson King album."
54spiritedwill54 (Comment from 6 years ago):
"I always had the feeling that if it weren't for Ian McDonald, we might have never heard of Bob Fripp."
+JosephNScott (Comment from 7 years ago):
"Imagine if Lizard had been the first King Crimson album. Might have sold about as well as Cheerful Insanity. What kind of foundation would that have been to build a more-famous-than-Sonny-Sharrock career on, compared to McDonald's melodies?"
I think you're all spot-on in your assessments. McDonald was not only, I believe, the most diverse player in the original band (that is, the variety of instruments he could play), but he was also A WRITER. The others contributed ideas, but I suspect that Ian was the most experienced and skilled writer of everyone (which I think may be why they hooked up with him to begin with).
Fripp wouldn't/couldn't (I'm sure by his own admission) write something as melodic as McDonald, especially not in 1969. "Cadence and Cascade" was a joint composition: "Flight of the Ibis" on "McDonald and Giles" uses the tune. McDonald also wrote some of "Cat Food," although just how much was apparently a matter of contention. And for years and years I thought that "Pictures of a City" was simply a Fripp/Sinfield rewrite of "Schizoid Man." Then DGM began releasing stuff, and it turns out that part of the track was originally a section of the first lineup's song "Trees," and that they played "Pictures..." in 1969 on their US tour as "A Man, A City." (Yet the credits on "Poseidon" only credit Fripp and Sinfield.) But I was really shocked: Did they not realize that it was, more or less, the same song as "Schizoid Man"? Were they too musically adept to realize that, to a layman like myself, that it would sounds like more or less the same song? Or was it a "variation on a theme," like the more recent tracks like "VROOM" and "VROOM VROOM"?
I don't envy the position that Fripp was in when it came time to come up with "Poseidon," though. I probably would have had a nervous breakdown from the pressure--although he did have the Giles brothers, as well as (for a time) Greg Lake to help work things out, provide input, musical or otherwise, and so on. For my taste, "Poseidon" seems to be missing perhaps one more really good track (I find "The Devil's Triangle" kind of tedious.)
And then "Lizard," which I personally like a lot, and which was vastly improved by Steve Wilson (although I had to go back and add the VCS3 effects in "Indoor Games" that Fripp made him take out). But if "Lizard" hadn't been a King Crimson album, I doubt it would have been released, let alone recorded.
Fripp really didn't find his "voice" until around "Larks Tongues" (the earlier "A Peacemaking Stint Unrolls"--if I have that title right--that's a bonus track on the current issue of "Islands" shows that he'd locked into the "European rock" concept that had been on his mind. But it also shows that the (much maligned) "Islands" band weren't the right players. Ian Wallace's drums are, in my opinion, much too overtly jazz-sounding. And the group had already been through more than enough with each other.
Back to the main point: The breakup of KC '69, but particularly the loss of McDonald was, I believe, what forced Fripp into chiseling out his way of doing things. But, as in the comments I quoted above, he probably wouldn't have had the opportunity except that he was writing for the hugely successful 1969 act King Crimson. And much of that success was due to the accessibility of McDonald's melodies, harmonies, pleasant-sounding, non-dissonant or freaky, contributions.
So, yeah, I just wrote seven paragraphs restating and agreeing with 6 and 7-year-old comments that everyone already agreed with from the start. At least there's a subject that I'm knowledgeable about.
Robert Fripp was always the HEART of King Crimson.
Check the McDonald and Giles album, some melodies and stuctures are shared between this and ItWoP.
Well said.
And what about Sinfield? I guess he was a really important 'voice' in the King Crimson, as Ian Mcdonald said in this interview. I would say that He was more important member than Mcdonald. As I see Robert Fripp and Mcdonald complemented really nicely each other, and Peter Sinfield lyricses really organicly exist with the instruments . Personally I don't like Mcdonald works, after King Crimson, but I really enjoy Robert Fripp's works even with Peter Hammill and Brian Eno in the 70s.
The song "Wake of Poseidon" was a blatant ripoff of "Epitaph". "Pictures of a City" was similar to "Schizoid" but had its own feel. And, of course, "The Devil's Triangle" is Holst's "Mars", and Fripp should have been sued for that.
It's nice to hear Ian McDonald and hear Pete Sinfield mentioned -- as the lyricist! Thanks for posting this!
Nice interview, but I'd like to hear about Ian's contribution to Kg. Cr. with his flute. He was one of the few flute players in rock at the time, along with Ian Anderson, Chris Wood, and Peter Gabriel. His solo on "I Talk to the Wind" is smooth.
Don't forget Ray Thomas of the Moody Blues.👻
@@sheldonwheaton881 Indeed. Lyn Dobson - Manfred Mann, Small Faces sessioner, Soft Machine member
@@sheldonwheaton881 Absolutely! Ray was also a great song writer, his solo album, From Mighty Oaks is fantastic. And who could forget, Legend of a Mind!
Wow!! CCK monumental, monumental, history.
33 1/3 RPM.
Stereo.
Reality.
You had to BE THERE.
Thanks for this!
Cheers!
A great musicien who brought so much to KC and prog
A great loss
Greg did play bass on the first album. Peter Giles played on the second.
When I heard the 21C Schizoid Band recordings, I was really blown away by how excellent a bassist Peter Giles is. Not only was he able to replicate Lake, Boz and Wetton things, he added his own ideas that compared really well to the original ones.
He meant Lake replaced P. Giles when Peter decided not to continue with the KC project after being in GGF.
I was jamming along to a lot of jazz and classical music, oh yeah... wanting to be a lead guitar virtuoso.
I saw Jimi and was a Hendrix freak, playing King Crimson almost as much. It didn't surprise me later on,
when I read that Jimi said his favorite English band was King Crimson, hanging out in clubs when they played.
I read how Ian McDonald wanted to rejoin KING CRIMSON during his guest appearances on the 1974 RED album. However, FRIPP chose to disband the group. Whatever reason he had for that, he should have at least allowed the band to do a farewell tour, not only to give IAN a chance to rejoin as a full time member, but also to inform the audience of the decision to retire. Plus, it would have given IAN a chance to perform live with JOHN WETTON & BILL BRUFORD.
I believe that in Sid Smith's book about Crimson, Fripp talks about this situation. I don't have the book handy, so I'll paraphrase: McDonald had played on "Red," and both Wetton and Bruford were in favor of McDonald rejoining on a permanent basis (to replace Cross, I assume).
Fripp, however, had already lost heart in the band and was moving towards the J.G. Bennett/Gurdjieff stuff. In the book, he says something to the effect (again, paraphrased from memory) that he was dealing on one side with copious consumption of alcohol and cocaine (Wetton) and a lack of musical taste and subtlety on the other (Bruford). And to this they wanted to add McDonald who, in 1969, cited the fact the he didn't like Fripp's guitar playing as one of his reasons for wanted to leave.
Fripp did suggest to Wetton and Bruford (as well as, I think, their management), that since McDonald was a founding member, he could still rejoin, Fripp would leave, and the band could (at least in theory) continue as King Crimson. But he didn't know if anyone had actually tried to go ahead with this idea.
One of the things about Sid Smith's book is that, although I believe it's meant to be 'unauthorized," and many people do dish dirt about Fripp. However, Fripp always gets the last word in, usually through what seems to be a well thought out, written explanation of the situation.
My favorite comments are from Gordon Haskell. At one point he talks about how during the "Lizard" sessions they would spend 6 or 8 hours just trying to get a drum sound because, oh no, the drums couldn't sound like actual drums, they had to sound *innovative.* Then he says, "They shouldn't have used drums. They should have used my dick." C'mon, Gordon, don't hold back: tell us how you *really* feel! (I actually liked/respected him more for going all-out with his comments.)
Anyway, it definitely would have been interesting to hear a Bruford-Fripp-McDonald-Wetton lineup. It's too bad that it wasn't to be. (I didn't get to see the recent live shows, but I'm excited that Mel Collins is back playing his horns, though--a nice added texture to all the super-clean digital effects.)
+psychodelicrock12 It definitely would have been interesting to see Ian McDonald perform with Wetton and Bruford. You would have had the representatives of the two greatest line ups of the band. However, I wonder what would have been going through Fripp's mind.
Btw, when the original 69 line up was imploding, Fripp did offer to leave and let McDonald assume control. However, McDonald still wound up leaving and formed the duo McDonald/Giles with Mike Giles and they recorded an album that sounded a lot like "In the Court of the Crimson King".
@@caseykane3845 Ian was meant to replace Robert whilst he went on hiatus, presumably to rejoin at a later date. He pitched the idea to his management, but they shot it down, as they believed there was no king crimson without Robert Fripp (a valid perspective, but I think they should have given McDonald a chance). All of this angered Fripp, and he decided to terminate the group, as they wouldn't let him leave. So, technically, I like to believe that McDonald was a member of 74 King Crimson, if only for a short time.
SAW IAN WITH FOREIGNER BACK IN 1978 ON THE DOUBLE VISION TOUR SPECTRUM PHILADELPHIA PA ..THE CARS OPENED...SEEMS LIKE YESTERDAY
My first love took me to his house...Sept. '72 and played McDonald and Giles for me...fell in love...I think the music was a great background for it!
I think -with an extreme respect to all of above comments- that all of Fripp, Greg Lake, McDonald and Pete Sinfield are all impeccable great musicians regardless of who played in whatever part of any track in Krimson's early albums...
Ian is such a neat guy. I loved his contribution to Foreigner.
It's a shame the musician "world" associates him primarily with KC, but you're right - his work with Foreigner gave them a hell of an added dimension with Gramm's massive vocals and Jones' penchant for thick-ass riffs.
Glenn Quagmire Yep, agree totally. Very good comment.
facebook.com/groups/759151907494516/
Ian's facebook group, if you're interested and on facebook. :-)
ITCOTCK and the McDonald and Giles album are 2 of my favorites. Amazing music!!!
So interesting hearing the lineup evolution up to ITCOTCK.
Especially how the great lyricist Pete Sinfield was brought along.
Without his contribution, King Crimson wouldn't have had their stunning visual impact, or even their name!
Ian McDonald was somehow the leader of
King Crimson instead of Robert Fripp.
Check his multi- instrument capibility on the first album. And two songs were written alone
by McDonald. I guess In the Wake of Poseidon was Fripp´s answer to McDonald after he had quitted. First three songs are amusing similar
in style of Crimson King album.
Thanks for posting, Ian was a multi instrumentalist like Roy Wood and Mike Oldfield. Doesn't seem to be many around today. On COTCK ~ Sax 21st CSM, Flute ITTTW, mellotron E and COTCK, reeds, vibes, keyboards, vocals. On McD and Giles ~Guitar, Piano,Organ,Sax, Flute, Clarinet, Zither, Vocals. That's impressive. A lot of guys can only play guitar/piano. RW could also play across the family of instruments. Interesting ~ both RW and IM were born the same year and their best stuff in their early 20s
In 1974 McDonald was set to re-join Crimson after the trio of Fripp-Bruford-Wetton recorded the album Red. Fripp-Bruford-Wetton-McDonald even had a working title for the next album: Blue.
Court of the Cmsom King was experimental and a learning experience. ONE OF THE GREATEST ALBUMS EVER RECORDED?? WHOA
Thank you Joseph and Scott
I always had the feeling that if it weren't for Ian McDonald, we might have never heard of Bob Fripp.
RIP Ian!
Thanks for sharing this
ian is great as was that 1st version of KC. right down the line: mellotron,sax,flute,lyricist as group member, early prog guitar, short songs +long songs that looked like outlines for english class,jazzy drum fills, and the whole british nature of it. this version could of should of been huge but now it's better that it lasted in short version it seems so special.
The latest incarnation of King Crimson is the best of all. 3 (!!) world class drummers (Gavin Harrison, Pat Mastelotto, Bill Reiflin), Mel Collins on saxes n flute, the amazing Tony Levin on bass instruments, Jakko Jakzsyk on guitar and vocals, and Robert Fripp on guitar. The 7 headed beast of terror just blew audiences away on their recent US tour. What is the sound of 2500 lower jaws dropping to the floor in the theater?
Thank you, FinnMove!
Godspeed Ian.
He also plays sax on the Electric Warrior album by T. Rex.
Thanks for uploading, but what happened to the full interview???
Hy Ian its a long time ago
Welcome back
Musch Greetings from Belguim
Dannielle
For those of u that don't know Ian sadly passed away
Aquel album con Gilles es una joya siempre disfrutable.
RIP Ian ♥
I cant believe that album is 8 track
At least John Wetton got Ian to play on Red. Talk about coming full circle.
In the Court of. .Greatest Prog album of all time.
Ian would make a good ventriloquist.
What bothers me about the first King Crimson band is that they only managed to last a year. With the fame and notoriety Crimson created with their first album and live performances you would have thought they would want to stay together for at least a few years, no matter how bad the relationships of the band members became. But after reading a lot and watching interviews about Crimson since I first heard their debut album in 1970, I came to the conclusion that Robert Fripp was the one most to blame for their first breakup. The ever-changing 1970's Crimson line ups and friction in the band is proof that Fripp was a pretentious perfectionist but also a brilliant musician. I met Adrian Belew after a Crimson concert in 2002, and after he spent a half hour talking to fans and signing autographs, I said to him "Fripp doesn't look as if he likes to mingle with his fans after a concert." and Belew responded "Robert doesn't like anything! [sic]" In the new Crimson documentary Belew made a comment about losing his hair. Fripp was a lot like Frank Zappa in the 1970's, who also changed band members constantly with no line up lasting for more than a couple years. When a great Rock musician reaches the plateau, power and ego can become a catalyst for destruction. It's wonderful to watch Fripp and his wife do the "Sunday Lunch" videos proving that Fripp has mellowed with age. Fripp is one of my biggest influences as a musician and composer.
RIP
I love how Ian speaks of Crimson for 5 1/2 minutes in this interview and Foreigner for 2 1/2. When there is nearly nothing to say, best to say nearly nothing....
He looks so much like Peter Hitchens
rest in peace, my man.
Not dead yet...
Rest easy
If I was there, I would ask Ian about the song Trees
Playing In The Court Of The Crimson King is a daily ritual...
Dude, there are tons of talented groups out there. Fripp himself has often published that talent is only half of the equation.
🙏 ✌ ❤ 🎶 🌎 👏 Ian
Ian: Will there ever be a follow-up to "In the Court of the Crimson King" (with you and Robert, et alii) ?
@beaverteeth92 how bout the whole original line up of Fripp, Lake, Giles, McDonald, n Sinfield if they make a new album
@MrLizardisle That's great! Fripp and Jackzyk together? I guess he liked what he heard from the Schizoid Band and asked him to join, great!
i read an article in drum! that said he did die, but you are right and they and i are wrong.
no--check the credits artrock... i had it then-- 2nd album-wake of poseidon--lake still did bass and vocals.
Why did that first line up split? They all say what a great time they had working on that first album.
"I always had the feeling that if it weren't for Ian McDonald, we might have never heard of Bob Fripp."
That's absurd. I hardly think Fripp would have been so succesful in the 30 years since he parted company from Mac Donald, if he didn't have a lot of talent himself.
Fripp could play but he really didn't have much to do with the Crimson sound. Ian did! Any guitarist could have filled in for Fripp. Everyone else came up with the riff, and of course the lyrics which turned into the tunes. Without the riff and subsequent lyrics, presto NO SONGS!
they're just doing different things but with the Robert fripp input still very present.have you got your hands on the last album(2003)"The power to believe" and the dvds "deja vroom" and "live in Tokyo2003"? These are,I think,masterwoks too.
Besides from that, Robert is the only one who can carry on the name of King Crimson;not to deny the other originals but....
@DAVWAVE correct sir.
I'd love to know what that sound is right at the beginning of 21st century scissoid man , like them opening the mics , that industrial ' air 'sound !
It is the sound of McDonald blowing through an unattached sax mouthpiece.
It's a pipe organ with so many keys pressed down on the keyboard (which open the pipes) that the air pump cannot supply enough air to sound all the pipes properly. On one of the retrospective releases of ITCOTCK there is a recording of the session where they are trying things out, muttering things like "It's meant to sound menacing but that just sounds like we can't play" or something like that. They got it right in the end as we can all hear.
He's not dead. The music critic Ian McDonald is however.
KC Mk 1 was a great band but of its time. The Fripp Bruford Cross Wetton line up is still the best (for me at least).
Your right artrock101, with a name like that should you be reviewing Roxy Music or something,
played sax on t-rex's bang a gong! amazing sax breaks for foreigner. i always liked his stay in foreigner. poor ian mac the same keeps happening to him; lead guitarist is there bye bye ian. stevie w and traffic would of been a great home for him but they had chris wood so no home for him pretty much invisible for 30 years until recently unless i'm wrong.
RIP.
How important was the first King Crimson album ? If not for this iconic breakthrough album,
Would there ever have been an ELP, a Yes, or all the associated great progressive rock that was to come . You will be remembered, and missed Ian
I think he contributed alot more than lyrics to the band
Not at all - lyrics by Sinfield.
@nasmformyzombie really...never heard that 1.
my names ian mcdonald series
This interview seems to be edited *alot*!
While it would be loved, Fripp wouldn't do that, he's not a nostalgia guy
For those of you that are on facebook, Ian has an appreciation page for his music.
facebook.com/groups/759151907494516/
I have the record....do you need a copy on CD?
Nope. Peter Giles played bass on the 2nd record, In The Wake of Poseidon. GL played bass and sang on the first album and subsequent tour. He left the band, but agreed to sing on some of the 2nd record. Ian McDonald was the flute/sax player, and wrote a good portion of the music on the first record.
Ian McDonald knows what happened. He's talking about Lake replacing Peter Giles from the Giles Giles & Fripp trio going into KC.
this guy's era of Crim was not self conscious put it that way
@beaverteeth92 It'll never happen because Fripp isn't interested in nostalgia. McDonald and Co. (minus Fripp and Lake) have formed The 21st Century Schizoid Band.
what about pete?!
No, Greg Lake was the singer in that line up. Greg Lake didn't play bass on the first album Peter Giles did.
Wrong. Lakes played on the first album. Giles played on the second. Lake sang on both.
In The word of a unstoppable king
No one can escape the fate that was chosen for them. All that remains is the result, where you will all perish. Eternal greatness only exists only within myself.Sing a song of sorrow in a world where time has vanish.
Diavolo-
1st KC album blows away anything that followed, let's face it losing Ian cost them melody & they haven't found their way back
Having a "laugh"?
RIP
I always had the feeling that if it weren't for Ian McDonald, we might have never heard of Bob Fripp.
I think you’re right!
@@tomhill2300 I respectfully disagree: Fripp was a co-founder of KC; any guitar player today, who's worth their salt, knows Fripp is a legend.
Ian's contributions to the early KC were most noteworthy.
RIP