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Hi Suellio- l bought the Motor Racing Checklist course and am almost all the way through. I'm VERY happy with my improved times! I am 1.5 to 2sec faster on a couple tracks already. And I'm sure I'M still the reason that I'm not even faster. There's SO much Golden information in this course that it's going to take a lot for me to actually put it ALL in mind and into practice. But I am Really Glad that I purchased your course. I Highly Recommend It! PS- I'm 72, a retired Mech. Engineer, and it amazes me how much that I learned about car dynamics, handling, and performance!! Thanks :)
Over and under steering is designed into the car by the engineer and the roll center heights front and rear . The driver must adapt to the car setup , oversteer on exit is usually the faster car if the driver can step on the throttle to change the centrifical force vector into a forward thrust vector an amateur driver will most likely back off the throttle in fear of a spinout ,where as a pro would step on the throttle to Change the force vectors from a spinout to winning the race . That's what makes a good race driver ,not the nonsense of your advice 🤔😝 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑$$$$$$$$$😵💫😝
@@sourcetext Any real drivers course will have seat time, period. To learn concepts and theory of racing without putting them into practice is criminal
@@sourcetext the only part of your comment that makes sense is that an oversteery car on exit is faster, and even that is only the case if the driver can control the throttle well enough to not actually oversteer (meaning the car is not actually oversteery, going full throttle would just be asking too much of the tires) what you said about changing a centrifugal force vector into a forward thrust vector makes no sense at all because centrifugal force is effectively a reaction force to a friction force, a friction force that will go away as you straighten out the car which getting on the throttle does not do.
Dang! I loved how at 7:57 Shellie shows how a high level student thought they were trail braking properly, and the telemetry-at first glance-shows that their curves look right, but then Suellio spots the oversteer issue. I shouted out loud, "THIS IS ME!" Omg… so helpful. Thanks SA! You're the man.
You are absolutely right about first being taught to finish the braking before turning. Took me years to unlearn this! The concepts you teach here didn't manifest in my sim racing until I observed them in rally sims, where the principles are amplified. Retroactively applying them to road courses and even real life changed everything for me.
I remember when I used to think, if I was constantly wrestling the car a little bit in turns, that meant I was on the edge going faster. Then, I heard a driver on TV say something like, you want to turn the least amount most of the time, since you can accelerate harder when directing the car straight and sliding is directly equivalent to just lost time, hence slow. Then I payed more attention to drivers and saw how smooth they were trying to be, using all the road they could to turn less and throttle more. Literally the same day I practiced a smooth is fast approach, just a little bit of trail braking certain corners (since I was a newb and probably still don't do it correctly), I beat my PR! It felt slower in the beginning of course, since you aren't wrestling the car as much, but then your whole perspective changes! You start to FEEL the speed in the opposite way you initially think. So much fun. If a class is cheap I may support ya mate! Cheers
@Federico SA's technic will finish its tyre before ending the session. That's why there are many ways to achieve same thing. All methods will have pros and cons depending what every you need on that context.
I couldn’t manage any of these techniques until I got a load cell brake pedal. And then I needed a better throttle pedal with better resolution so I could really get the balances down. Getting a quality pedal set is key to being able to actually use these techniques.
Really wish more of my friends that are newer to sim racing could see this comment and more like it. They stick with Logitech pedals just because it gets the job done but then complain they can’t get quicker and don’t listen when I try to suggest that it may be fixable with a better set of pedals lol
Hi Suellio, thanks for the informative video. I've read your book and I have been working on the techniques, especially trying to keep light hands and fish for grip. I have to say that this video is what made my trail braking click. I tried steering less and trail braking like I usually do and for a couple of laps I just got less rotation and some understeer. I played with my brake modulation and then suddenly I was spinning on corner entry for a couple of laps! Now I am finding that neutral steer happy medium but I've already beat my PB on my reference track. Thanks again and keep up the amazing work!
Oh my GOD! Suellio you are a genius. This is what is holding me back. I have known for a long time that something is wrong with my technique and that it had to do with the application of trailbraking. Oh my GOD! I never had a chance of getting it because my front tires are turned past the ideal slip angle at corner entry, and I am never going to get maximum grip out of them. Turn less ! What a revelation. The sad thing is that I never really practice technique. I'm only going to the track on race weekends and spend all my nonracing track time on fine tuning my set up or racing line. The next time I go out, this is what I'm working on. Thank-you!!!!!
Mario Andretti's quote about drivers thinking the brakes are for slowing down the car really drove this point home to me. Steer the car with the brakes :)
That's why I choosed Porsche 911 GT3 Cup to be my first car in iRacing (I transitioned from Assetto Corsa). Porsche 911 teaches you very fast how to brake, how to turn, how to accelerate, how to not overdrive/underdrive the car. You miss one of those things and either crash or spin. Love it.
Sure, on some stuff, like say spa with lots of high speed turns on a decline and stuff, but even there you can learn the specific trouble turns with bad technique in the porsche gt3, you can still top out at 2:20 there and wonder what the problem is why you can't get into the teens, I know cause I've done it in the porsche -.-
@@AaronJay83 you are spot on he said cup and the cup car is probably one of the best cars to learn in. No driver aids and the crazy understeer at times. Wishing you a great 2024 and many years of great racing! 🎉
When I moved to a DD wheel I found that it actually helps quite a bit in this. From then on I could feel the difference in the FFB of when it's too much slip angle on the front tires, because the force started decreasing with more angle rather increasing.
@SuellioAlmeida For me, when trail braking, I'm "braking towards the apex of the corner". The way I'd like to see trail braking is basically doing the opposite with your brakes before the apex with what you do after the apex with your throttle. To summarize taking the corner with trail braking (in my words): 1. At the very first, sometimes before even doing something with cornering, release the throttle to neutralize the weight of the car 2. Then, when your car is pointing to the optimal angle to brake, brake hard and feel the weight of the car leaning on the front tires 3. Afterwards you start a bit of turning the steering wheel to initiate the car rotation 4. Immediately also reduce the amount of braking the more you are getting (and pointing) closer to the apex 5. When you are at the apex, you should not be braking anymore (now depending on the corner you would maybe let the car roll a bit) 6. Now start to increase the amount throttle the more you are getting (and pointing) closer to the optimal angle to go full throttle (so basically do the opposite of what you did with the braking before the apex but instead of reducing the braking you are increasing the throttle) 7. When having positioned the car in the optimal angle to go throttle (so "straight" in the racing line), you should be at full throttle ;) For the record: I am just a hobbyist sim racer trying to learn the art of racing for the fun of it. So please be easy on the comments. Of course this cannot be applied to all of the corners but it can be for the majority of them. I'm happy to be corrected / getting tips! Hahaha ;)
This is just an awesome instructional video. Thanks for posting it. I was trying to explain this to my daughter, but you did it better than I ever could. You took me back to when I was about 12 and was learning all of this the first time around. It’s amazing how once you learn how to feel the limit of a car, you make small corrections automatically. Explaining how it feels to a new driver is difficult, so thanks again! My daughter and I will definitely be watching more of your vids together.
I watched one of your coaching sessions and the first thing you mentioned was that they student was steering too much and trying to beat understeer with more steering. I'm just a gamer and playing on a controller, but even with that I've been able to do some basic trail braking, getting as much neutral steer as possible, and it's transformed my driving. I sometimes slide a bit too much now, but it's fun. If I want to go for best lap times I just have to dial it back a bit.
Driving a Porsche in AC will very quickly expose an over-reliance on steering in your driving technique. I've also found driving AWD cars really helped to force me to use the pedals to rotate the car, because of how much they want to understeer.
Amazing! There is no way I could explain this as well as you did! I already know the concept but this helps drive it home. On almost any car whether its understeering or not, if you just keep dialing steering wheel lock, your just scrubbing speed and trashing your tires, you have to send some weight to the front. Get it right and you can dance the car right in to the apex with little effort.
I always explain this by telling people that you are not turning the car with the steering wheel, you are turning the car with the gas and brake/downshifting movements, and the steering wheel is just to make sure that the front wheels are pointing in the right direction that you want to go when you get back on the gas and start going through the turn. If you try turning with just the steering wheel, you are going to go straight off the track, especially in something like a CanAm car or any older cars from the 60's and 70's that have less downforce than modern cars.
Understeer and oversteer are designed into the car by the car designer by whats called rollsteer points of the front suspension and the rear suspension snd the way its "Setup" , miner adjustments can be made by using whats called the "sway bars, one at the front and one at the rear of the car ...this is called "roll oversteer" or roll "under steer", most engineers will use an overateer at the rear, as the driver accelerates on exit the centrifical force vector is changed to a thrust force vector and therefore keeing the the car under control and exiting the corner much faster esp leading to a long straight where feet per second is important. A sensitive nervous system and sense of balance ( good ears ) is what wins races ,eyes that are far apart give better triangulation for accurete distance
I think that this technique is best practiced on a track with A LOT of sweepers. You'll really get to feel when the car reaches maximum rotation and when you're using too much steering input.
I'm going to apply this in Sim and my next track day. I just raced at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway and realized I was making the same mistakes. In hindsight, I actually entered a turn with a great trail brake but I had too much steering angle and started to spin, then over corrected. Luckily there is a lot of run off as I went for an off road adventure.
It's funny that everytime you put out a video about using the brakes to steer I wonder, "should I watch this, I've heard him tell me this a million times now" then you go and say one single new sentence that just unlocks another layer of understand 😅 always worth the watch!
I am a completionist. The only thing standing between me and the motorracing checklist is the rest of this playlist. I think I can crush it tonight. I cant wait!
I think driving the Formula Vee really helped make me aware of this. It's very noticable when going around Lime Rock Park wo/chicanes because the times end being so tight that even a slight scrub of the front wheels can cost you +.3 to .7 on your lap times
13:40 realised this myself in acc. When trying different cars. Having just picked up the McLaren and learned some trail braking along with it. I much prefer my rear to slide. It gets easier to correct it. And I know the limit of my grip. Also I was just lapping spa at the start I had a 2:30 lap time. But I knew it can be better so I tried the trail braking. I was using the same braking points but I was more gentle with the pedals. And I started to see a second down each lap. And I managed to go down to 2:24 which is really good for my skills. Lots of room to improve but at least I could somewhat trail brake. And carry much more minimal speed which sheds seconds in some corners. You are right on that one. Thats the difference between pros and not.
I'm not a great driver and I've noticed without really thinking about why that I think like this in oversteering cars because it feels natural. I'm very sure I do it all wrong in understeering cars most of the time. This gave me a lot to think about and work with. Thanks!
This video made me connect trail braking to rally driving car control, I feel like this is more of a hardware limiting but I never "got" trail braking in circuit racing sims. I always thought it was purely a load thing and never added throttle control.
Suellio, thanks a lot for your explanetions about trail braking technik. That gave me a lot of precious information about how it feels through the force feedback. it helps me drive much better and fast.👍
I discovered this on my own in GT Sport by driving Blue Moon Bay Speedway for about 90 minutes straight. I accidentally hit the right angle for trail braking through Turn 1, and suddenly dropped over a second off my lap time. Took a while to replicate it, but once I did, I could also pull it off on the faster Turn 3. Over the course of that session, I dropped 2.5 seconds off my lap times, and by the end it was very consistent. The results carried over to other tracks as well.
Thank you so much. I can confidently run the Nurburgring Tourist with 6 minute lap times. After watching this video, it has giving me even confidence to push the car further more as this, along side with now more knowledge over understand the weight distribution is shown to have incredible performance improvements. Thank you 🙏🏾
Interesting timing of this video for me. I'm a beginner Sim Racer, currently running in MX5 Cup events. The other day I was driving a Lambo Huracan where I was trying to meet a certain 3 lap average. After about 2 hours of laps, I couldn't understand why I was so slow, until I realised that I was over working the steering, asking for far too much of the car when turning in. I went back and started to learn to revise my steering angle and after another 2 hours, I took 2 seconds out of my 3 lap average and beat the challenge. Since then, I've applied that to the MX5 and can already see a massive improvement in lap times. I'm currently working on using the pedals more, so I'll book mark this video and watch back from time to time to make sure I'm correctly applying the technique. Thanks Suellio (and good luck with the Radical races 👍🏻)
Shingo Suji vs Takumi in the duct tape challenge opened me up to this concept. The opening explanation is spot on.... Too much steering I've noticed in my own is oversteer, scrubbing tires too much is wear on the tire, but also, the inability to take the turns fast enough. What i did to compensate, after showing down a little, is track limits and turn into the turn later and combining that with efforts to learn cornering, specifically hitting the apex.. Subscribed because I'm pretty sure you know wtf you're talking about. GG
Hello, this just popped up. I know this is mainly for circuit/tarmac racing, but maybe try playing like the rally games of Dirt/the new EA WRC game. The slippery physics of the car + gravel/snow helped me know that controlling braking+throttle is importanter than steering more through the thousands of corners. To the point when I played with my friend in GT7, he can't drive my "oversteer" car while I can't drive his "understeer" car lol, though when he finished his setup, I can't keep up with him.
this is actually funny, because I felt that I was steering too little, so I started forcing myself into steering more. Guess I'll go back to turning less again xD
God this is me IRL with my time trials and w2w racing and why I bought iracing. The feel of rotation was scaring me irl and being able to test in the sim has been a game changer!
Unfortunately most standard setups seems to make the issue worse. When I first got an esports setup by accident, it just forced me to do the right thing (I.e. steer less) and the difference was just amazing I hate to pay for setups though
Your teaching style is spot on and incredibly adaptable. Great videos and they are definitely improving what I am getting out of my practice sessions. Well done sir.
watched plenty of your vids before but this one got me really thinking about what I'm doing now and trying different things in testing. even initial results are amazing, thank you so much, I will keep working on this
What a super helpful video. I’m by no means a super fast driver but also not a novice. This was so insightful and definitely going to help and give me something to practice. Fantastic explanation also.
Great video! this is pure gold! I don't race real cars (so I don't really know) but I've noticed something on the sim. Let's say, you've got a corner which you can take (without pushing) at about 90 km/h. With a given car you can either use second or third gear. But, with similar steering and pedal input, the car 'grabs' the corner more easily on second gear.. question is: is that realistic? why does it happen? (engine braking maybe) thanks in advance!
As a beginner, this is definitely my tendency. More so, I either tend to use braking to rotate the car too late into the corner and when I do, the steering angle is already too high and I spin the car, or trailbraking from the get-go, but decelerating too much during the corner and losing time that way. Finding that balance is tough because it's counter-intuitive. Now, obviously, when I have grip and I'm not understeering through the turn I can feel that tightness/resistence in the steering wheel. Is that the sensation I should be looking for to know I've got the balance right?
For me I think about blending the controls. Braking to the turn in point - weight is reduced at the rear and shifted to the front wheels. At the turn in point, you don't fully release the brakes, but with the weight still on the front and off the rear, start feeding in steering angle AS you start to release brake pressure. You are blending brake release with feeding in steering angle, this smoothly increases rotation. Then, the cars I drive like a little bit of on-throttle through the corner to balance the car, using the throttle to shift weight fore or aft blended with small steering inputs (if any) to increase/decrease rotation to track through the corner. And then blend increasing throttle with reducing the steering input. Everything should be a blended transition, not abrupt switch between control inputs. The car does not instantly change speed or direction, so everything has to be blended to match the intended transitions in speed and direction.
Any vehicle you get to drive best thing to do is find a nice wide dirt road somewhere with practically no traffic or paddock if possible and learn! The saddest thing about our licence testing here in AU is they do not teach how to handle a vehicle WHEN it gets out of control! Brake and accel turning are key to weight distribution and grip.
Brake bias, balance between front and rear, must be taken into consideration in order to make trail braking work for you. Too much rear bias will have you flying off high speed corners in an instant. Max Verstappen is said to be a master at controlling a "pointy" car, one that wants to turn in aggressively. The speed is there if one can handle it.
TCRs are a great class of car to put Suellio's advice to work. They have lots of oversteer under braking, so you're forced to use the brake pedal to steer the car otherwise you'll be all over the place on turn in, or painfully slow compared to anyone else that's figured out the basics of this.
I'm getting better at getting into slip angle, but it still surprises me when I do it. My initial reaction is "Oh crap, I'm losing it!" but by the time the thought is over, I've realized I'm not dying and I'm doing it right and I'm totally in control. It's very weird still.
Was trying to explain this to my son and found this video... the visuals help the most, but over all a great video. A little lenghty and "nerdy", just the way I like it! 😂 kudos
The day i decided to practice trail braking was the day i felt like i unlocked a cheat code. Rotating the car with the brake pressure felt so good and made me realize a lot of my steering bad habits. I wish i saw this video years ago.
You took 20 minutes to explain that understeering, followed by over-correction resulting in tire scrubbing, reduces my speed. You advised that I should minimize steering wheel use to maintain the car's straightest possible line, as a car moves fastest when traveling straight. You suggested I should concentrate more on trail braking to manage wheel rotation. Essentially, this is basic racing knowledge, and you reiterated the same point three times for 5 minutes.
Man your videos are so informative and helpful i really mean it when i say thank you for having content like this for free Even if it isnt a full in-depth guide, it's amazing for people like me who just can't come to afford to pay for a 200$ 1o1 50m long session with you 😭 Seriously, these videos are amazing. I've just been binge watching them and realising how much I'm doing wrong highly appreciate all the work you do and i wish you the best of luck in your up coming race with your new radical car! Can't wait to see how you perform out there! 🙏🏼
Throw yourself into a Rally Car (RBR or DR 2 even though the physics are limited with the last one) and you will quickly learn about steering/pedal work, car positioning, braking, over and understeer, left foot "tipping" of the brakes to get more power to the front wheels by weight transition when at the absolute limit of the car (which will help to maintain control not necessarily getting faster) a.s.o Walter Roerl is emphazising that sensitive approach on the steering for decades, he always made this gesture of steering with just your fingertips when explaining....don't get me wrong I'm simracing for +20 yrs, mostly circuit racing (GTR, ACC, RRE, AMS2 etc.) but doin'Rallye (RBR back then) helped me the most in terms of understanding Car Physics... ;)
"again think with me if you're understeering and you turn the steering even more what happens kind of nothing right you scrub mower front tires the car continues being lazy to turn". Is that true for front biased fan car?
Hi Suellio i remember when you taught me in the mustang on iracing at sebring. You didnt share much information. I felt that my inputs were great because of the silence 😅 im curious to know after your experience has grown. If we can try it again!
Nose pointing towards outside of your line means you're pushing on the front tires. You want to wait until the nose is pointing inside your line so the weight is on the back tires. Frint tires pushing out is bad. Rear wheels pushing forward is good.
Thanks for explaining! And doing this. I just started begin februari with simracing, but going sure to try this out. Have to sort out how i can get telemetry for ACC/AC. Dont have i racing but i am going to try this for sure!
Holy shit, this is the BEST and CLEAR vid ive seen for teach me really how to trailbreak and oversteer a car i think its understeer. and i tried it just works! I picked up simrace from dirt rally years ago and built many bad habits myself, thanks alot this vid really made a big help to me.👏👏👏
Anyone trying to work on this: go karting irl, outside in the rain. Really quick and noticable feedback on trailbraking and correct steering angle bc karts lack differentials and only have rear biased brakes. I promise if you do this once every like 2 or 3 weeks youll return to iracing and rotation will be sooo much easier.
GUILTY :D I just tried to release the breaks slower, found out i am breaking too early and steer to much because now i will not miss the apex, i drive over the apex now....on the inside
This is something I've learned from your previous video, but it's nice to have it repeated. I am currently focusing on FF1600 as there is only mechanical grip and car is very twitchy... But it's very funny car to try to control it mainly using pedals as said in the video :D This week on Rudskogen I was already able to do 1:26.5! I am still not able to understand why I'm able to work with this car but not with GT3 haha
GT’s are a lot heavier so you’re dealing with a lot more hard braking (with ABS too), as opposed to 1600 which is very light and twitchy. The 1600 is more about maintaining momentum. The biggest difference though is the steering inputs will be WAY larger in a GT3. A lot more wheel turning.
Such a great video! Amazing technique to start considering when im sim racing! I just started sim racing and Im tryin to learn how to get close to real lap times over famous circuit all over the world (SPA, Monza, Silverstone etc and i also finding myself in the situation where i have to rotate the steering more than I should. Iv lowered the volumes of most of the surrounding but kept tires at 100% so i can hear them squeak. I would recommend, at least from what I noticed, you should lower the music volume on the background in the video. its really annoying THank u for the vid
Fantastic advice. I got this "less steering" to work in a neutral car (ACC Cayman718 GT4). I did feel like I was using the pedals to rotate the car on entry and exit. But I struggle to do this in an understeery car (ACC AMG non-EVO). What changes do I need to make?
What about circumstances where tire heat is a concern (ie cold fronts or overheated rears or both)? Might it be advantageous to use steering and rotation techniques to maintain proper temps? Fantastic channel btw, im always learning something here.
Drifting on AC, we basically only steer with the pedals, in a very agressive but precise way, and I personally think getting into drift and rally (if that's your thing) can help develop transversal skills. Be aware that different cars can behave very differently, but the concept of grip is the same, just experienced from a different angle (pun intended).
Mega video! Learned alot, knew lots of those things already instinctively but now I feel like I understand them. Before I didn't really know what to do if the steering felt off, but I feel like now I know what to focus on to improve. Tiny thing about the last corner examples; you stop so early and talk for so long to get the point across that I kinda lose focus on what the feel of the corner should be. Maybe show the corner once more without interrupting after the explaination, to really consolidate the information? Just my 2 cents
I mean if you try to implement any technique, let alone something colossal like a complete rework of how you drive, 2 minutes before a race - probably nto gonna work out
Hi Suellio, I’m a beginner here I steer like this without realizing that this is a neutral steer. But can I maintain to steer like this the whole race? I noticed through the end of the race my tires were worn out rapidly.
It's a simpler point of view, but if you imagine as in bigger radius (circle) you can carry more speed, you realise if you turn less you get a bigger radius and ofcourse more speed
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"The steering points the direction and the pedals with amplify that rotation" is so key 6:45
Hi Suellio- l bought the Motor Racing Checklist course and am almost all the way through. I'm VERY happy with my improved times! I am 1.5 to 2sec faster on a couple tracks already. And I'm sure I'M still the reason that I'm not even faster. There's SO much Golden information in this course that it's going to take a lot for me to actually put it ALL in mind and into practice. But I am Really Glad that I purchased your course. I Highly Recommend It! PS- I'm 72, a retired Mech. Engineer, and it amazes me how much that I learned about car dynamics, handling, and performance!! Thanks :)
Thank you so much for your trust and feedback! I feel personally proud when the praise comes from engineers 🥲
@@SuellioAlmeida I should probably be concerned that other drivers will Buy the course, and pass me on track!
Over and under steering is designed into the car by the engineer and the roll center heights front and rear . The driver must adapt to the car setup , oversteer on exit is usually the faster car if the driver can step on the throttle to change the centrifical force vector into a forward thrust vector an amateur driver will most likely back off the throttle in fear of a spinout ,where as a pro would step on the throttle to Change the force vectors from a spinout
to winning the race . That's what makes a good race driver ,not the nonsense of your advice 🤔😝 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑$$$$$$$$$😵💫😝
@@sourcetext Any real drivers course will have seat time, period. To learn concepts and theory of racing without putting them into practice is criminal
@@sourcetext the only part of your comment that makes sense is that an oversteery car on exit is faster, and even that is only the case if the driver can control the throttle well enough to not actually oversteer (meaning the car is not actually oversteery, going full throttle would just be asking too much of the tires)
what you said about changing a centrifugal force vector into a forward thrust vector makes no sense at all because centrifugal force is effectively a reaction force to a friction force, a friction force that will go away as you straighten out the car which getting on the throttle does not do.
Dang! I loved how at 7:57 Shellie shows how a high level student thought they were trail braking properly, and the telemetry-at first glance-shows that their curves look right, but then Suellio spots the oversteer issue. I shouted out loud, "THIS IS ME!" Omg… so helpful. Thanks SA! You're the man.
You are absolutely right about first being taught to finish the braking before turning. Took me years to unlearn this! The concepts you teach here didn't manifest in my sim racing until I observed them in rally sims, where the principles are amplified. Retroactively applying them to road courses and even real life changed everything for me.
Yo same!
I remember when I used to think, if I was constantly wrestling the car a little bit in turns, that meant I was on the edge going faster. Then, I heard a driver on TV say something like, you want to turn the least amount most of the time, since you can accelerate harder when directing the car straight and sliding is directly equivalent to just lost time, hence slow. Then I payed more attention to drivers and saw how smooth they were trying to be, using all the road they could to turn less and throttle more. Literally the same day I practiced a smooth is fast approach, just a little bit of trail braking certain corners (since I was a newb and probably still don't do it correctly), I beat my PR! It felt slower in the beginning of course, since you aren't wrestling the car as much, but then your whole perspective changes! You start to FEEL the speed in the opposite way you initially think. So much fun. If a class is cheap I may support ya mate! Cheers
A friend of mine, once professional racing driver on GT1 cars as first thing told me was to turn the least as possible. First of all for saving tires.
@Federico SA's technic will finish its tyre before ending the session. That's why there are many ways to achieve same thing. All methods will have pros and cons depending what every you need on that context.
*_"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula One Level, think that the brakes are for slowing the car down"_*
- Mario Andretti
I couldn’t manage any of these techniques until I got a load cell brake pedal. And then I needed a better throttle pedal with better resolution so I could really get the balances down. Getting a quality pedal set is key to being able to actually use these techniques.
Its sow true 😢
Really wish more of my friends that are newer to sim racing could see this comment and more like it. They stick with Logitech pedals just because it gets the job done but then complain they can’t get quicker and don’t listen when I try to suggest that it may be fixable with a better set of pedals lol
Hi Suellio, thanks for the informative video. I've read your book and I have been working on the techniques, especially trying to keep light hands and fish for grip. I have to say that this video is what made my trail braking click. I tried steering less and trail braking like I usually do and for a couple of laps I just got less rotation and some understeer. I played with my brake modulation and then suddenly I was spinning on corner entry for a couple of laps! Now I am finding that neutral steer happy medium but I've already beat my PB on my reference track. Thanks again and keep up the amazing work!
Proud!!!
Oh my GOD! Suellio you are a genius. This is what is holding me back. I have known for a long time that something is wrong with my technique and that it had to do with the application of trailbraking. Oh my GOD! I never had a chance of getting it because my front tires are turned past the ideal slip angle at corner entry, and I am never going to get maximum grip out of them. Turn less ! What a revelation. The sad thing is that I never really practice technique. I'm only going to the track on race weekends and spend all my nonracing track time on fine tuning my set up or racing line. The next time I go out, this is what I'm working on. Thank-you!!!!!
Mario Andretti's quote about drivers thinking the brakes are for slowing down the car really drove this point home to me. Steer the car with the brakes :)
This was the first thing I thought of!
Same with Mario Bros to turn corners better you have to hit the brake and boom tighter turning plus an added boost bonus!
🤣@@chonglers1513
Mario andretj
Sim
That's why I choosed Porsche 911 GT3 Cup to be my first car in iRacing (I transitioned from Assetto Corsa). Porsche 911 teaches you very fast how to brake, how to turn, how to accelerate, how to not overdrive/underdrive the car. You miss one of those things and either crash or spin. Love it.
Sure, on some stuff, like say spa with lots of high speed turns on a decline and stuff, but even there you can learn the specific trouble turns with bad technique in the porsche gt3, you can still top out at 2:20 there and wonder what the problem is why you can't get into the teens, I know cause I've done it in the porsche -.-
@hansolo631 think he's talking about Porsche Cup not the Porsche GT3. Could be wrong
@@AaronJay83 you are spot on he said cup and the cup car is probably one of the best cars to learn in. No driver aids and the crazy understeer at times. Wishing you a great 2024 and many years of great racing! 🎉
When I moved to a DD wheel I found that it actually helps quite a bit in this. From then on I could feel the difference in the FFB of when it's too much slip angle on the front tires, because the force started decreasing with more angle rather increasing.
The value Suellio provides and the level of editing 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Genuinely no other content creator is doing what you do, certainly not as well.
Keep it up bro and enjoy the Radical ❤
@SuellioAlmeida For me, when trail braking, I'm "braking towards the apex of the corner".
The way I'd like to see trail braking is basically doing the opposite with your brakes before the apex with what you do after the apex with your throttle.
To summarize taking the corner with trail braking (in my words):
1. At the very first, sometimes before even doing something with cornering, release the throttle to neutralize the weight of the car
2. Then, when your car is pointing to the optimal angle to brake, brake hard and feel the weight of the car leaning on the front tires
3. Afterwards you start a bit of turning the steering wheel to initiate the car rotation
4. Immediately also reduce the amount of braking the more you are getting (and pointing) closer to the apex
5. When you are at the apex, you should not be braking anymore (now depending on the corner you would maybe let the car roll a bit)
6. Now start to increase the amount throttle the more you are getting (and pointing) closer to the optimal angle to go full throttle (so basically do the opposite of what you did with the braking before the apex but instead of reducing the braking you are increasing the throttle)
7. When having positioned the car in the optimal angle to go throttle (so "straight" in the racing line), you should be at full throttle ;)
For the record: I am just a hobbyist sim racer trying to learn the art of racing for the fun of it. So please be easy on the comments.
Of course this cannot be applied to all of the corners but it can be for the majority of them.
I'm happy to be corrected / getting tips! Hahaha ;)
This is just an awesome instructional video. Thanks for posting it. I was trying to explain this to my daughter, but you did it better than I ever could.
You took me back to when I was about 12 and was learning all of this the first time around. It’s amazing how once you learn how to feel the limit of a car, you make small corrections automatically. Explaining how it feels to a new driver is difficult, so thanks again! My daughter and I will definitely be watching more of your vids together.
Idk why you’re in my feed but subscribed since you were speaking about racing and improving times. You must be good !
I watched one of your coaching sessions and the first thing you mentioned was that they student was steering too much and trying to beat understeer with more steering.
I'm just a gamer and playing on a controller, but even with that I've been able to do some basic trail braking, getting as much neutral steer as possible, and it's transformed my driving. I sometimes slide a bit too much now, but it's fun. If I want to go for best lap times I just have to dial it back a bit.
Driving a Porsche in AC will very quickly expose an over-reliance on steering in your driving technique. I've also found driving AWD cars really helped to force me to use the pedals to rotate the car, because of how much they want to understeer.
Amazing! There is no way I could explain this as well as you did! I already know the concept but this helps drive it home. On almost any car whether its understeering or not, if you just keep dialing steering wheel lock, your just scrubbing speed and trashing your tires, you have to send some weight to the front. Get it right and you can dance the car right in to the apex with little effort.
I always explain this by telling people that you are not turning the car with the steering wheel, you are turning the car with the gas and brake/downshifting movements, and the steering wheel is just to make sure that the front wheels are pointing in the right direction that you want to go when you get back on the gas and start going through the turn. If you try turning with just the steering wheel, you are going to go straight off the track, especially in something like a CanAm car or any older cars from the 60's and 70's that have less downforce than modern cars.
That's precisely what I'm going through now. This video is gold. Thanks Suellio!
Understeer and oversteer are designed into the car by the car designer by whats called rollsteer points of the front suspension and the rear suspension snd the way its "Setup" , miner adjustments can be made by using whats called the "sway bars, one at the front and one at the rear of the car ...this is called "roll oversteer" or roll "under steer", most engineers will use an overateer at the rear, as the driver accelerates on exit the centrifical force vector is changed to a thrust force vector and therefore keeing the the car under control and exiting the corner much faster esp leading to a long straight where feet per second is important. A sensitive nervous system and sense of balance ( good ears ) is what wins races ,eyes that are far apart give better triangulation for accurete distance
I think that this technique is best practiced on a track with A LOT of sweepers. You'll really get to feel when the car reaches maximum rotation and when you're using too much steering input.
I'm going to apply this in Sim and my next track day. I just raced at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway and realized I was making the same mistakes. In hindsight, I actually entered a turn with a great trail brake but I had too much steering angle and started to spin, then over corrected. Luckily there is a lot of run off as I went for an off road adventure.
It's funny that everytime you put out a video about using the brakes to steer I wonder, "should I watch this, I've heard him tell me this a million times now" then you go and say one single new sentence that just unlocks another layer of understand 😅 always worth the watch!
I am a completionist. The only thing standing between me and the motorracing checklist is the rest of this playlist. I think I can crush it tonight. I cant wait!
I think driving the Formula Vee really helped make me aware of this. It's very noticable when going around Lime Rock Park wo/chicanes because the times end being so tight that even a slight scrub of the front wheels can cost you +.3 to .7 on your lap times
13:40 realised this myself in acc. When trying different cars. Having just picked up the McLaren and learned some trail braking along with it. I much prefer my rear to slide. It gets easier to correct it. And I know the limit of my grip. Also I was just lapping spa at the start I had a 2:30 lap time. But I knew it can be better so I tried the trail braking. I was using the same braking points but I was more gentle with the pedals. And I started to see a second down each lap. And I managed to go down to 2:24 which is really good for my skills. Lots of room to improve but at least I could somewhat trail brake. And carry much more minimal speed which sheds seconds in some corners. You are right on that one. Thats the difference between pros and not.
Very possibly the most useful sim racing tip I’ve ever seen, and I consume these videos like crazy
I'm not a great driver and I've noticed without really thinking about why that I think like this in oversteering cars because it feels natural. I'm very sure I do it all wrong in understeering cars most of the time. This gave me a lot to think about and work with. Thanks!
This video made me connect trail braking to rally driving car control, I feel like this is more of a hardware limiting but I never "got" trail braking in circuit racing sims. I always thought it was purely a load thing and never added throttle control.
Suellio, thanks a lot for your explanetions about trail braking technik. That gave me a lot of precious information about how it feels through the force feedback. it helps me drive much better and fast.👍
I discovered this on my own in GT Sport by driving Blue Moon Bay Speedway for about 90 minutes straight. I accidentally hit the right angle for trail braking through Turn 1, and suddenly dropped over a second off my lap time. Took a while to replicate it, but once I did, I could also pull it off on the faster Turn 3. Over the course of that session, I dropped 2.5 seconds off my lap times, and by the end it was very consistent. The results carried over to other tracks as well.
Thank you so much.
I can confidently run the Nurburgring Tourist with 6 minute lap times.
After watching this video, it has giving me even confidence to push the car further more as this, along side with now more knowledge over understand the weight distribution is shown to have incredible performance improvements.
Thank you 🙏🏾
Interesting timing of this video for me. I'm a beginner Sim Racer, currently running in MX5 Cup events. The other day I was driving a Lambo Huracan where I was trying to meet a certain 3 lap average. After about 2 hours of laps, I couldn't understand why I was so slow, until I realised that I was over working the steering, asking for far too much of the car when turning in. I went back and started to learn to revise my steering angle and after another 2 hours, I took 2 seconds out of my 3 lap average and beat the challenge. Since then, I've applied that to the MX5 and can already see a massive improvement in lap times. I'm currently working on using the pedals more, so I'll book mark this video and watch back from time to time to make sure I'm correctly applying the technique. Thanks Suellio (and good luck with the Radical races 👍🏻)
Shingo Suji vs Takumi in the duct tape challenge opened me up to this concept.
The opening explanation is spot on....
Too much steering I've noticed in my own is oversteer, scrubbing tires too much is wear on the tire, but also, the inability to take the turns fast enough.
What i did to compensate, after showing down a little, is track limits and turn into the turn later and combining that with efforts to learn cornering, specifically hitting the apex..
Subscribed because I'm pretty sure you know wtf you're talking about.
GG
Hello, this just popped up. I know this is mainly for circuit/tarmac racing, but maybe try playing like the rally games of Dirt/the new EA WRC game. The slippery physics of the car + gravel/snow helped me know that controlling braking+throttle is importanter than steering more through the thousands of corners. To the point when I played with my friend in GT7, he can't drive my "oversteer" car while I can't drive his "understeer" car lol, though when he finished his setup, I can't keep up with him.
Best instructional video I’ve ever seen on RUclips. And I learned how to play guitar here too. Great work!
I've learned to spin the car with the brakes 😮.... very small steering input.
1 - 3% brake is what I need to improve on..... a lot! 😊
this is actually funny, because I felt that I was steering too little, so I started forcing myself into steering more. Guess I'll go back to turning less again xD
Same! After trying turning more I figured out I had to still steer a little more than I was but not as much as I thought.
God this is me IRL with my time trials and w2w racing and why I bought iracing. The feel of rotation was scaring me irl and being able to test in the sim has been a game changer!
Unfortunately most standard setups seems to make the issue worse.
When I first got an esports setup by accident, it just forced me to do the right thing (I.e. steer less) and the difference was just amazing
I hate to pay for setups though
Your teaching style is spot on and incredibly adaptable. Great videos and they are definitely improving what I am getting out of my practice sessions. Well done sir.
Fantastic info. Can’t wait to try it on the sim tomorrow
watched plenty of your vids before but this one got me really thinking about what I'm doing now and trying different things in testing. even initial results are amazing, thank you so much, I will keep working on this
What a super helpful video. I’m by no means a super fast driver but also not a novice. This was so insightful and definitely going to help and give me something to practice. Fantastic explanation also.
This video really made me understand what I'm doing wrong while Sim Racing. Thanks, I've just bought your Motor Racing Book! 🤗👊🏾💯
Great video! this is pure gold!
I don't race real cars (so I don't really know) but I've noticed something on the sim.
Let's say, you've got a corner which you can take (without pushing) at about 90 km/h. With a given car you can either use second or third gear. But, with similar steering and pedal input, the car 'grabs' the corner more easily on second gear..
question is: is that realistic? why does it happen? (engine braking maybe)
thanks in advance!
As a beginner, this is definitely my tendency. More so, I either tend to use braking to rotate the car too late into the corner and when I do, the steering angle is already too high and I spin the car, or trailbraking from the get-go, but decelerating too much during the corner and losing time that way. Finding that balance is tough because it's counter-intuitive. Now, obviously, when I have grip and I'm not understeering through the turn I can feel that tightness/resistence in the steering wheel. Is that the sensation I should be looking for to know I've got the balance right?
For me I think about blending the controls. Braking to the turn in point - weight is reduced at the rear and shifted to the front wheels. At the turn in point, you don't fully release the brakes, but with the weight still on the front and off the rear, start feeding in steering angle AS you start to release brake pressure. You are blending brake release with feeding in steering angle, this smoothly increases rotation. Then, the cars I drive like a little bit of on-throttle through the corner to balance the car, using the throttle to shift weight fore or aft blended with small steering inputs (if any) to increase/decrease rotation to track through the corner. And then blend increasing throttle with reducing the steering input. Everything should be a blended transition, not abrupt switch between control inputs. The car does not instantly change speed or direction, so everything has to be blended to match the intended transitions in speed and direction.
Suellio you actually are a teachers teacher.
I really like you teaching method.
Any vehicle you get to drive best thing to do is find a nice wide dirt road somewhere with practically no traffic or paddock if possible and learn! The saddest thing about our licence testing here in AU is they do not teach how to handle a vehicle WHEN it gets out of control! Brake and accel turning are key to weight distribution and grip.
Brake bias, balance between front and rear, must be taken into consideration in order to make trail braking work for you. Too much rear bias will have you flying off high speed corners in an instant. Max Verstappen is said to be a master at controlling a "pointy" car, one that wants to turn in aggressively. The speed is there if one can handle it.
Its 38min past midnight in my country
In mine its past 41🫢
59
1:09*@@ParabolicPlayground
Best video I’ve seen explaining this. Thanks!
I tried driving around a skid pad with a gt3 and i did not have enough control of the pedal to do it. Good drills.
TCRs are a great class of car to put Suellio's advice to work. They have lots of oversteer under braking, so you're forced to use the brake pedal to steer the car otherwise you'll be all over the place on turn in, or painfully slow compared to anyone else that's figured out the basics of this.
I'm getting better at getting into slip angle, but it still surprises me when I do it. My initial reaction is "Oh crap, I'm losing it!" but by the time the thought is over, I've realized I'm not dying and I'm doing it right and I'm totally in control. It's very weird still.
Was trying to explain this to my son and found this video... the visuals help the most, but over all a great video. A little lenghty and "nerdy", just the way I like it! 😂 kudos
Hey I'm really passionate about sim racing but I really don't know where to start.can u just give me a road map for a career in sim racing
Great video. I'll give it a try because at this point in my sim racing I'm struggling at the midpack level.
The day i decided to practice trail braking was the day i felt like i unlocked a cheat code. Rotating the car with the brake pressure felt so good and made me realize a lot of my steering bad habits. I wish i saw this video years ago.
You took 20 minutes to explain that understeering, followed by over-correction resulting in tire scrubbing, reduces my speed. You advised that I should minimize steering wheel use to maintain the car's straightest possible line, as a car moves fastest when traveling straight. You suggested I should concentrate more on trail braking to manage wheel rotation. Essentially, this is basic racing knowledge, and you reiterated the same point three times for 5 minutes.
Sorry max verstappen. Now create a channel and do better
You learn this quickly when karting! Great video.
Man your videos are so informative and helpful i really mean it when i say thank you for having content like this for free
Even if it isnt a full in-depth guide, it's amazing for people like me who just can't come to afford to pay for a 200$ 1o1 50m long session with you 😭
Seriously, these videos are amazing. I've just been binge watching them and realising how much I'm doing wrong highly appreciate all the work you do and i wish you the best of luck in your up coming race with your new radical car!
Can't wait to see how you perform out there! 🙏🏼
Throw yourself into a Rally Car (RBR or DR 2 even though the physics are limited with the last one) and you will quickly learn about steering/pedal work, car positioning, braking, over and understeer, left foot "tipping" of the brakes to get more power to the front wheels by weight transition when at the absolute limit of the car (which will help to maintain control not necessarily getting faster) a.s.o Walter Roerl is emphazising that sensitive approach on the steering for decades, he always made this gesture of steering with just your fingertips when explaining....don't get me wrong I'm simracing for +20 yrs, mostly circuit racing (GTR, ACC, RRE, AMS2 etc.) but doin'Rallye (RBR back then) helped me the most in terms of understanding Car Physics... ;)
"again think with me if you're understeering and you turn the steering even more what happens kind of nothing right you scrub mower front tires the car continues being lazy to turn". Is that true for front biased fan car?
Hi Suellio i remember when you taught me in the mustang on iracing at sebring.
You didnt share much information. I felt that my inputs were great because of the silence 😅 im curious to know after your experience has grown. If we can try it again!
Nose pointing towards outside of your line means you're pushing on the front tires.
You want to wait until the nose is pointing inside your line so the weight is on the back tires.
Frint tires pushing out is bad. Rear wheels pushing forward is good.
Thanks for explaining! And doing this.
I just started begin februari with simracing, but going sure to try this out.
Have to sort out how i can get telemetry for ACC/AC.
Dont have i racing but i am going to try this for sure!
Holy shit, this is the BEST and CLEAR vid ive seen for teach me really how to trailbreak and oversteer a car i think its understeer. and i tried it just works!
I picked up simrace from dirt rally years ago and built many bad habits myself, thanks alot this vid really made a big help to me.👏👏👏
🫡🫡🫡🫡
Thank you so much for your advice! I tried asap and realized that I had driven the wrong way for years
Anyone trying to work on this: go karting irl, outside in the rain. Really quick and noticable feedback on trailbraking and correct steering angle bc karts lack differentials and only have rear biased brakes.
I promise if you do this once every like 2 or 3 weeks youll return to iracing and rotation will be sooo much easier.
GUILTY :D I just tried to release the breaks slower, found out i am breaking too early and steer to much because now i will not miss the apex, i drive over the apex now....on the inside
Really enjoyed this video and this is exactly where I am struggling with my driving irl
This is something I've learned from your previous video, but it's nice to have it repeated. I am currently focusing on FF1600 as there is only mechanical grip and car is very twitchy... But it's very funny car to try to control it mainly using pedals as said in the video :D This week on Rudskogen I was already able to do 1:26.5!
I am still not able to understand why I'm able to work with this car but not with GT3 haha
Damn 1:26.5 ?! I only got a 1:27.6
What is your Irating? And how long since you're on Iracing?
@@nexo_74 Started in September 2023. Currently I have 2800 iRating.
@@ichizos9615 oh ok. Do you think that for someone who have 1490 Irating and have started at the end of December it's a good lap?
@4i rating doesnt matter, you can be fast with 400 i rating or a bad driver with 3000
GT’s are a lot heavier so you’re dealing with a lot more hard braking (with ABS too), as opposed to 1600 which is very light and twitchy. The 1600 is more about maintaining momentum. The biggest difference though is the steering inputs will be WAY larger in a GT3. A lot more wheel turning.
Very good info, curious what you have your wheel rotation set to…900, 540, 360
Such a great video! Amazing technique to start considering when im sim racing! I just started sim racing and Im tryin to learn how to get close to real lap times over famous circuit all over the world (SPA, Monza, Silverstone etc and i also finding myself in the situation where i have to rotate the steering more than I should. Iv lowered the volumes of most of the surrounding but kept tires at 100% so i can hear them squeak.
I would recommend, at least from what I noticed, you should lower the music volume on the background in the video. its really annoying
THank u for the vid
I can do that all day in the skip barber on iracing but that seems to be the only car I can do it in consistently with some level of control.
Spot on bruv. Can’t wait to give this a bash when next on 👍
Fantastic advice. I got this "less steering" to work in a neutral car (ACC Cayman718 GT4). I did feel like I was using the pedals to rotate the car on entry and exit. But I struggle to do this in an understeery car (ACC AMG non-EVO). What changes do I need to make?
What about circumstances where tire heat is a concern (ie cold fronts or overheated rears or both)? Might it be advantageous to use steering and rotation techniques to maintain proper temps? Fantastic channel btw, im always learning something here.
Great technical stuff. We can all learn from it, no matter the level you're at.
what about tapping the throttle to induce rotation/tuck in the nose?
Thank you for the Siellio Almeida Trading Paints Livery! 🔥🔥🔥
I have issues with consistent braking at the limit and over rotation on the rear axles and thing I can do
Drifting on AC, we basically only steer with the pedals, in a very agressive but precise way, and I personally think getting into drift and rally (if that's your thing) can help develop transversal skills. Be aware that different cars can behave very differently, but the concept of grip is the same, just experienced from a different angle (pun intended).
Mega video! Learned alot, knew lots of those things already instinctively but now I feel like I understand them. Before I didn't really know what to do if the steering felt off, but I feel like now I know what to focus on to improve.
Tiny thing about the last corner examples; you stop so early and talk for so long to get the point across that I kinda lose focus on what the feel of the corner should be. Maybe show the corner once more without interrupting after the explaination, to really consolidate the information?
Just my 2 cents
I start on ACC on a week, and this is my problem! Tank you for your work! One question, what angle do you recomend on the whell?
Watching this 2 min before a race start at Mount Panorama..gt7. Wish me good luck 😏
What did you finish in?
I mean if you try to implement any technique, let alone something colossal like a complete rework of how you drive, 2 minutes before a race - probably nto gonna work out
@@gabrielmora8403 started last finished 3rd 🙂↕️
@@hansolo631
Thanks 😌
I have the opposite problem. I'm not steering enough and end of braking too much.
Hi Suellio, I’m a beginner here I steer like this without realizing that this is a neutral steer. But can I maintain to steer like this the whole race? I noticed through the end of the race my tires were worn out rapidly.
Would be good to know braking points and initial turn in.
Does anyone have a suggestion of a car that would behavior like Suellio was talking at the end? I'm still driving the mazda, because it's fun :)
It's a simpler point of view, but if you imagine as in bigger radius (circle) you can carry more speed, you realise if you turn less you get a bigger radius and ofcourse more speed
Why on the real track video it seems to me like ground has low resolution textures 👀
Thanks for the video