RUclips serendipity is real! I have the same exact monitor and about 10 years ago, it started developing colored vertical lines when it was powered on. When the monitor warmed up, the lines would disappear after a few minutes. I simply ignored the problem, hoping it wouldn't get any worse. A few days ago, I turned on the monitor and it was completely garbled. I tried to find an easy repair online and found nothing. What a weird circumstance to find this video!
This very monitor used to do the same - line disappearing when warm - until it got worse and worse. But never got garbled! It's a common fault apparently. Thanks for watching!
This happens when the flex cable connecting the screen to the pcb, comes away from the screen. They are just glued to the screen, overtime I guess the heat from the screen starts to soften the glue. If you press the bottom of the black line, you might get it to disappear just by using the force of your finger to reattach the flex again. Some people stick something between the screen and the front bezel to keep pressure on that area.
The "fault" is indeed with it, I disassembled it further some time ago. I could make the lines disappear if I touched one of those flex cables which has an IC on it. I already tried the "wedging" trick, it worked for a week then I gave up as going any further with those flat cables usually means the death of the monitor. It's ok for the workshop - I couldn't have it as my main desktop monitor anymore as sometimes I couldn't read some words which happened to be behind the lines :D
@@tony359 Yea, I suppose using glue on a hot display isn't the best choice long term. These monitors would probably still be fine if they used LED's as the backlighting originally.
Great skills Tony is discovering that issue. I was 100% sure it was going to be a capacitor issue at the start of the video (which they were definitely an issue), but I wouldn't have expected the regulator.
I had a similar issue with the backlight of a Samsung VA panel from 2017 a few years ago. Bad solder joints would intermittently lose contact on cold mornings and only reconnect after the panel was on for a few minutes and heated up.
@@tony359 Great video, but could you reconsider the usage of background music, listening for 34 minutes of same royalty free loop starts to get you. No music is fine too.😁
@@tab8k I appreciate your feedback - the background music is really soft, it gets a bit louder when I'm not talking and I am using 3 different songs on this video to try to differentiate. Finding Royal Free songs I like is not super-easy but I like some background music - I've lowered the overall level over time as you're not the first one mentioning this! On my stereo desktop speakers I am unable to hear the music when I'm talking, it might be a bit more obvious with headphones maybe. This is just to say that I have looked into this feedback, I'm not ignoring you and all the others. I'll keep considering options of course. Thanks for taking the time to let me know!
I just deleted a whole long script critiquing your fault finding when I thought;- it's only RUclips, everyone else love his videos, let it go. All the best
I was about to go out yesterday and I heard a buzzing. I located it to a power adapter. I touched it and it was really hot. I unplugged it and pulled it out the wall and then my hand started burning. Some red hot liquid was leaking out. Must of been a capacitor. I`m going to strip it down and see lol.
No unfortunately. It's the ribbon cable which connects to the panel itself. I played with it years ago. Those things cannot be re-attached, the moment you remove them the LCD is for the trash - at least this is my understanding. So I live with it :) Thanks for watching!
I was thinking bad solder joints from the start, in addition to bad caps. Lots and lots of monitors/TVs around that time frame has issues in those 2 areas. 65C is nothing though, good quality caps should last decades in that environment. Even 90C isn't a problem, though it'll last shorter than at 65.
I've recently learnt about cap duration: even high quality ones are rated 2-5000 hours at rated temp - which is not much for a monitor! But every 10C less than rated temp, the life increases by 10x. Most of those caps are 105C but if they live at 90C, then they won't last much. I had no idea there was a formula to calculate! Thanks for watching!
Might be the Eeprom next to the regulator. Had this problem on an Iiyama B2475. Had to read it while it was still warm. Replaced it, monitor has been working for 5 Years now.
We have a couple of these monitors at the office, one of them the main ic got a short (dead obviously) and on the others the panel turned so yellow like you have turned the eye saver mode on.
This one is so SLOW in getting to the final brightness. In winter time when I turn it on to use the microscope I always have to wait at least 5-10 minutes before it gets of a decent brightness! Oh well it's an old lad :)
Fantastic video and commentary. Great photography, great audio, evidence of clear faultfinding logic. I subscribed half way through the first video of yours I have watched. If anything, I think you are being a little overcautious in arriving at a diagnosis. Boots and all, I would have more easily jumped to a conclusion, and replaced that voltage regulator on principle 😂 But thank you VERY much. I will definitely be watching all previous videos. I'm not a serious electronics expert, but I recently acquired a Dell monitor that switched on but had garbled lines all over the screen. I dismantled all the boards out of the chassis, and even carefully bent the - what do you call it? - controller board and all its little ribbon cables away from the back of the LCD panel. Re-applied power to all, and lines persisted. Idly percussed (tapped) that controller board along its length with my index finger, and the lines disappeared and the pictured returned. And now I can't break it again, so I have marked with a sharpie the spot on the controller board I tapped to make it work again, and I use the monitor successfully every day!! Holding thumbs...
The magic finger :) Thanks for your kind words, it takes a while to make those videos so your comments are particularly appreciated! If I were to repair that monitor as a paid service then of course you don't waste time and replace parts (though I would need to order that part which would take time). But this is my "hobby" so the purpose is more to learn and "see what happens if..." than "I need this working again ASAP" :) Hence the extra diagnostic process on the way! Those lines should be caused by the ribbon cable which goes to the LCD panel itself, over time they might develop some bad contact. On this very monitor I can reduce the lines if I physically twist the whole monitor a bit! I opened it up some time ago and it's one of those ribbon cables which has an IC on it! But from what I hear, they're not fixable and it's easy to trash the whole monitor. I suspect - it's a wild guess - that your tapping "fixed" one of those ribbons rather than the controller board. But I cannot be sure. "If ain't broke, don't fix it" - and old say claims. I never follow that and often break them more so I can fix them again! :) Thanks again! :)
Thank you for your advice. The spot I tapped was not directly opposite one of the two ribbon cables in to the monitor. I suspect a dry joint on the board which I accidentally fixed by tapping so well that now all works and all is quiet on the western front! As you say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"! I am in South Africa and have a ham radio licence hence my comment ID ZS1DFR. Thanks again, Dave
Using a soldering iron on lowish temperatures to heat up the tab of the voltage regulater might have been a bit more precise then hot air. Nice fix on this one👍 Repaired a control pcb for a cherrypicker at work the other day that had a irf5305 that runs super hot and was toast. Looks like thermal design sometimes is forgotten by engineers.
Indeed, never considered that. Next time! Most of the time thermal design is affected by marketing. Or planned obsolescence. So many examples come to mind. :( In this case to be fair I feel the monitor is cooled properly - it's just a heat generator because of CCFL lamps... Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I can picture the bean counters going "oh, this aluminium pointy thing is SO EXPENSIVE. That component already has its own metal plate, right?"
probably the unleaded solder. its truly doesn't lend towards longevity in electronics components. the heating cooling cycle seems to make the lead free stuff have the cold/cracked solder joints more often, especially in cases like this, from what i've seen. and while they do appear to have improved the overall lead free formula some, leading to fewer such cases in newer products.. that early run of stuff is largely all ticking timebombs for repair, if subjected to a lot of heat cycles. some of the parts survive this fine, they just need resoldered. and sometimes the intermittent connections take the parts out, too. doesn't help that they don't seem to put heatsinks in some places that could really use them.
For sure unleaded solder can do that - what puzzles me is why that regulator every time :) Maybe the edge of the board? No idea :) Thanks for watching!
Yeah I couldn't get enough heat into the xbox board I recapped recently. I used hot air and my solder plunger. However I should of tried braid. I warped the board a little using hot air. It was fine until I wired in the glitch chip backwards and blew up a PNP transistor that is on the bleeder circuit. Hopefully once I replace it no major damage was done to it.
The XBOX - and the PS3 - are a Royal pain. The whole board has multiple ground planes I guess. If you don't have a pre-heater you need to take your time with hot air (better a heat gun but be careful!) and SLOWLY heat the whole board until it gets to 120/130C. THEN, you can remove the caps and it'll still be tough. Others just set the "hot air at maximum" but as you noticed it's more likely to cause damage. Bear in mind that an object takes time to warm up so don't be scared of warming up the board for 2-3 minutes before soldering - but be careful as heat guns can go up to silly temperatures so keep it at some distance. Good luck :)
@@tony359 Exactly. I started by replacing all the big caps first doing the same thing. However I took my time there. Slowly heating. Tested it since I've never seen it power up (xenon bad caps). Worked. Went to replace all the small caps the next day (since they came with my console5 kit) and thats when I think I warped the board. I might've been too fast with the heat. I should of also tried wick but my mind was fixed on using my solder plunger. My pinecil couldn't put enough heat into the hole to keep it molten to suck, but wick probably would've worked. Made me realize I might need to upgrade to a T12 soldering iron. Really hoping I didn't do permanent damage to it shorting the 3v3 rail. All resistances are high. I just need to replace the burned out BCP51 PNP transistor for the bleeder circuit. I get them next week. Fingers crossed. If it is damaged. Oh well. Great learning experience. Albeit a close to $50 USD one. It'll make a good parts board if so lol
I own the same monitor and have the same issue with it: heating that IC and the monitor works again. Thanks for the video and it may be an unusual fault in terms of repairing a TFT but it seems a usual fault when it's about this specific monitor model.
That's so weird! And my monitor is STILL working now so that was definitely the issue. Imagine how many monitors went to the landfill because of that...
@@michachojnowski9004 Does it read 20V even with the motherboard disconnected? If so, chances are you just need to replace the output capacitors, the ones on the right hand side. Please be careful with power supplies, the voltage there goes to 340V and they can kill you. Capacitors store energy when the monitor is unplugged.
Good job Tony! I think that line could either be some weak connections in the ribbon cables to the LCD panel, or maybe some issues with the buffer board ( but weak connections to the panel it's self seams more likely since they are so isolated ), that could also be a long term heat generated issue ( not sure if it is fixable ). PS: I absolutely hate CCFL units ( be they monitors or TV's ), they are real power hungry beasts, less efficient than LED units ( way less ), thus they all run very hot, and so the caps have a hard life in them. Lelon and Elite are still decent caps in my opinion, even if they are no Rubycon or Nichicon or Panasonic...I have used them in some of my projects and none of them failed ( still i never accept them running at more than let say 40-45*C, anything more means redesigning the project ). For reliability reasons, since you do need that monitor, i think you could try and help it run a bit colder, not sure if better heatsinking is doable since so many components run very hot, but maybe some small fans places somewhere on the lower side of the monitor, underpowered so they are not noisy, could still help to a way better convection. I know, it would not look very factoryish but...
I tinkered with that ribbon cable and yes, it would affect the lines but I didn't feel like disassembling further as those things can be easily broken. There was an IC (?) soldered on the cable itself and I felt the issue was with that. I think I'll add a fan on top powered by the USB 5V :) It will likely reduce the temps by 20C. On caps life, I've recently learnt that every 10C cooler you run your caps will extend their life by 10x. Not joking, there are official calculators online. So 40C or 80C means 40x life difference, impressive! Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 yes, that's sort of a chip on board, the lcd driver. And yes, those ribbons are fragile. Not sure if a fan on top would be the best choice, it would have to draw out the heat, but it could only do that if there are enough ventilation holes on the bottom, and it would get sort of cooked by all that heat ( most of the heat would run trough it ). On the bottom instead it would blow cold air in, so it would also run quite cold. but again the case would still have to have proper ventilation holes in the top side. Still, any version should lead to a better thermal management, so the choice is yours. PS: Any type of stress on the caps affects their life, of course heat is their main enemy, but the current ripple is also a type of stress that affects an electrolytic cap's life, less current ripple means longer life, that's why most of the switching supplies have paralleled caps, they share the load, thus the stress on each is less ( that is also the main reason low esr caps are needed ).
Last i repaired a monitor which cooked some components, i added a handful convection ventillation holes to it because the failure was where the airflow was the worst. Whether it helped, i don't know, the monitor then died of a different fault and now needs a full backlight rebuild, might do eventually, might not. I had done one previously.
I think the Dell has a good ventilation - it's just that it's a heat generator! If the panels were so hot with the case fully open, you get what you get with a case on top I think. Never swapped a backlight yet, maybe in the future... :)
@@tony359 OK so what i managed to do right last time - permanently disabled the complete high voltage generator portion of the power supply for peace of mind. Didn't kill the panel while folding and unfolding the flex PCB that grows out of it or during other manipulations. The placement, glue and cooling of LED strips on the aluminium inner frame of the monitor turned out good. I was also smart enough to test the strips thoroughly before installing them, pressing on LEDs to make sure they aren't about to die, because some did, and running them on low current to see which ones have internal resistance way higher and swapping them out. Also isolating control signal from the logic/scaler board went well and applying it to the LED backlight - i didn't use the DIM input, just the EN input. I also ran the ground terminal to one end of each strip and positive to another, distributing the resistance of the strips between the LEDs and making them light super evenly. What didn't work well. I left a tiny particle of dust in the monitor, and unfortunately this was the doom of it about 5 years later - the new owner insisted on cleaning it and trying to scratch off the "dirt" until they broke the panel. The panel also turned out spectacularly bright at max setting. But this was just a little unusual, not really a hard detriment. What really didn't work well was the colour temperature. Way too blue. Next time i don't use replacement strips as is but order nicer quality LEDs that are neutral in colour temperature close to original CCFLs or warmer, heatgun the shit LEDs off the strips and install new ones.
It can - I think it needs to be probed at the "output". The bottom line is that you should be able to see something - and you can see that when the monitor finally started, I was able to probe them too.
Great video and repair! I'm wondering if that linear voltage regulator that heat-soaks the entire board could be replaced with a switching one, like the ones from Traco. I also like Dell monitors, just bought a couple of 2414Hs for my own needs very cheap. Some days I should check the caps in them, I suppose. I do not need the diverse inputs of older ones, I have an entire scaler video chain built into my workbench for my old computers, with external input switching, etc.
That monitor is really a space heater, I'm not sure a mod like that would be worthwhile. I'd like to see if I can stick a small USB-powered fan on the top of the case though, that might help. If it didn't have those lines on the side... I also have lots of scalers and adaptors but NONE of them works as well as the Dell monitor!! Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Scalers - As a Swiss-army knife of scalers, I stand by the Extron DSC 301 HD. I'd run this up against a Dell monitor any time... Also because you can't record what the monitor scales, but you can capture the HDMI output of this one... And yes, you're right, that it doesn't worth to fix this monitor further, but it would be still an interesting experiment to see how much a switching regulator replacement affects the heat generation/heat soaking of that PCB at least. Maybe some people could do preventive maintenance, if there's a reasonable impact?
Interesting, I purchased an Extron some time ago, it was supposed to be good but I could not make it work, it was more or less de-interlacing all the time for no reason. I got in touch with Extron support and they couldn't even understand what was going on so I had to return it. I have 3 or 4 capture devices and it's a jungle. I have to use a different one depending on which device I am using :)
@@tony359 Not sure what you mean by "de-interlacing all the time", but yeah, our use cases might be different, and in my experience, this particular type of Extron is really good, some others I've tried, especially older ones - not so much. But whatever floats the boat of course. But my experience: I'm responsible for Amiga and Oldschool compo-captures, or connecting retro machines to a digital video chain on several demoparties and other retro events, and the Extron even helps with the de-cluttering. The DSC 301 HD has a HDMI input, so I can just use whatever other converter as front-end (OSSC, RetroTink, etc) and I always get a super-stable guaranteed 1080p60 or 50 output, which I can route into an Elgato Game Capture HD60S+ or X, or a Blackmagic ATEM Mini, and get a perfect full HD capture. (Although the ATEM's built-in scalers are quite good as well.) Additionally, I also use the RGB input of the Extron a lot (for Amiga, Atari, and anything I can easily turn into analog RGB), because I found it's more tolerant to signal quirks than a lot of scalers/converters I've tried, and it's CVBS output is also there for a fallback, should I need it. So yeah. It is my key to a single-capture device chain. And yes, it's a slightly older device, so the RetroTink 5x Pro's recent firmware updates, and especially the RetroTink 4K (I have both) now start to catch up/surpass it in quality and some features, I still think I'm going to use it for years to come. Anyway, I don't want to over-explain it. Still enjoying the videos you make it, however you like to make them, so keep it up. :)
A weird effect as if the Extron was applying de-interlace to a progressive signal. I sent the video to Extron and they were puzzled too. I got that Extron as it was supposed to work well with a C64 but it didn't work on mine. Spend several days updating, resetting, trying other sources but eventually Extron support gave up and so did I. I was indeed looking for a single capture device which worked with everything but so far I don't have it. It's ok, I can cope. But it's been a bit frustrating :)
Have 2 lovely ASUS monitors 27 and 32 inch. both dead. can't see any bad caps, helplessly probing around on the boards, voltages fine, a few ICs being very hot but no shorts found at all. It's just frustrating.
65° when it is open on the desk. But how hot will it become when all lids are on and the case is closed. Maybe a heatsink on the hottest parts is an idea.
There are some heatsinks already - the hottest component I showed sits on a heatsink which is touching the chassis behind the board. It think the cooling is ok, it's just what could be done passively. I'm actually thinking of plugging a 5V fan in the USB port, that would probably lower the temps by 20C inside. Thanks for watching!
Yes, I am considering that. To be honest I'd like to just stick a USB-powered fan on the top of the monitor where the vents are to help with convection. But yes, I do have centrifugal fans which would work beautifully inside that cage! Thanks for the idea!
My Dell U2312MH from 2011 has the same issue, after a while with the power plug unplugged it takes about 30 minutes for it to turn back on again. I leave it on power (I had some power strips with a switch and was planning to switch everything off to save power with devices in stand-by). If it finally fails I'll just replace the regulator like you did with the old monitors, and maybe reflow a few components and recap. It's also a monitor that can take just about anything and display it. Great for my Amiga and MSX computers!
@@tony359 All voltages and clocks are fine, there is activity on address lines, VGH and VGL is present on T-CON. I'm out of ideas. Last thing to do is to check do VGH is able to reach other side of ribbon cable. I just have no time to do it :/
uhm... interesting. If it goes into standby it looks like it doesn't sense the input. But you're also saying there is no OSD. It might be sensing a fault and shutting down. What model is that?
I have the same monitor, replaced it this past summer on chinese 29 inch ultrawide. I sold the main from this monitor, and the other stuff is not selling. Problem I had was flex that attaches to the glass on the screen -- basically black lines. Bad screen. Some say it could be soldered, but I trashed the entire monitor for parts. By the way, you have same black line in the same place I had, but then it got worst and on the other side as well. If you take the screen apart, you can put some paper between flex and metal, that might fix that line a bit.
Why heating bad caps can make them work as they were not faulty? I've seen that finally the problem was the regulator but im curious about that... Haven't heard that before, maybe i should start using that technique too. Good video!
I'm not sure. When capacitors age, the fluid inside (electrolyte) dries out - or leaks as in this case. I think warming it up changes its properties and becomes more "active". Take a look at this short video I made for PCBWay, you can clearly see on the scope the effect of heat/cold. ruclips.net/video/949bkSPWL7o/видео.html
it's soooooo annoying! I did open up the frame of the monitor some time ago, it's something with those yellow flat cables taking the signal to the panel. I think they soldered an IC **ON IT**. Chances of making it worse are big so I left it as it is. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Wow! Those vertical lines are in the exact same location as mine. Mine, however, disappears when the monitor warms up. Is it possible to swap the LCD panel with a different one? They're fairly cheap on eBay. The big issue of course will be pinout compatibility.
It used to be the case with my 27" too. Then one line started not disappearing. Then two lines, then... If I twist the monitor, physically, the lines reduce a bit. I never considered swapping the panel TBH, I have bigger monitors on my desk now and this is fine for a workshop :)
@@tony359 Thought I'd give you an amusing update - I just had to perform the same operation on mine. Regulator still seem fine but caps were mostly shot and the heat transferring pads seem to leak some gunk that was all over the board. Gave it a good wash and replaced all of them. Let's cross fingers :)
@@Chriva I had that "liquid" on mine too but to be fair I left it there - it wasn't over the board though, only on ICs and on the pads themselves. Great to know another one of those monitors saved from the landfill! Thanks for the update!
Ah - that is the oscilloscope, it's a test tool to visualise electrical signal. At some point I'll make a video to explain how to read an oscilloscope in a - hopefully - simple way.
@@tony359 failed after 15 years though, a lot of the modern junk only last 3 years due to the LEDs burning out. I think the Repair was worth it though.
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RUclips serendipity is real! I have the same exact monitor and about 10 years ago, it started developing colored vertical lines when it was powered on. When the monitor warmed up, the lines would disappear after a few minutes. I simply ignored the problem, hoping it wouldn't get any worse. A few days ago, I turned on the monitor and it was completely garbled. I tried to find an easy repair online and found nothing. What a weird circumstance to find this video!
This very monitor used to do the same - line disappearing when warm - until it got worse and worse. But never got garbled! It's a common fault apparently. Thanks for watching!
This happens when the flex cable connecting the screen to the pcb, comes away from the screen. They are just glued to the screen, overtime I guess the heat from the screen starts to soften the glue. If you press the bottom of the black line, you might get it to disappear just by using the force of your finger to reattach the flex again. Some people stick something between the screen and the front bezel to keep pressure on that area.
The "fault" is indeed with it, I disassembled it further some time ago. I could make the lines disappear if I touched one of those flex cables which has an IC on it. I already tried the "wedging" trick, it worked for a week then I gave up as going any further with those flat cables usually means the death of the monitor. It's ok for the workshop - I couldn't have it as my main desktop monitor anymore as sometimes I couldn't read some words which happened to be behind the lines :D
@@tony359 Yea, I suppose using glue on a hot display isn't the best choice long term. These monitors would probably still be fine if they used LED's as the backlighting originally.
@@anthonydenn4345 Yes, see Frugal Repair's video on this subject.
Great skills Tony is discovering that issue. I was 100% sure it was going to be a capacitor issue at the start of the video (which they were definitely an issue), but I wouldn't have expected the regulator.
Very unexpected! Once I saw the cap juice I was 100% convinced too! Thanks for watching!
I really like your heat/chill troubleshooting technique! I will use that myself on future projects. Many thanks for an interesting video 🙂
You're welcome and thanks!
I had a similar issue with the backlight of a Samsung VA panel from 2017 a few years ago. Bad solder joints would intermittently lose contact on cold mornings and only reconnect after the panel was on for a few minutes and heated up.
I use the same monitor on my soldering workbench but the 30" version. Fantastic monitor for its age. Hope it last many more years.
Wow the 30" was a beast! Amazing indeed!
Fantastic video as always!!!
Si ma ora lo voglio anch’io l’oscilloscopio figo con lo schermo grande 🙂 🙃
@@tony359 Great video, but could you reconsider the usage of background music, listening for 34 minutes of same royalty free loop starts to get you. No music is fine too.😁
@@tab8k I appreciate your feedback - the background music is really soft, it gets a bit louder when I'm not talking and I am using 3 different songs on this video to try to differentiate. Finding Royal Free songs I like is not super-easy but I like some background music - I've lowered the overall level over time as you're not the first one mentioning this! On my stereo desktop speakers I am unable to hear the music when I'm talking, it might be a bit more obvious with headphones maybe. This is just to say that I have looked into this feedback, I'm not ignoring you and all the others. I'll keep considering options of course. Thanks for taking the time to let me know!
I just deleted a whole long script critiquing your fault finding when I thought;- it's only RUclips, everyone else love his videos, let it go.
All the best
Constructive criticism is always welcome! :)
But what is actually wrong, i ask because i do it kinda simillarlly i think
I was about to go out yesterday and I heard a buzzing. I located it to a power adapter. I touched it and it was really hot. I unplugged it and pulled it out the wall and then my hand started burning. Some red hot liquid was leaking out. Must of been a capacitor. I`m going to strip it down and see lol.
Red liquid is weird. Be careful as there are way too many Chinese PSU's around which are nowhere near as safe as they should be!
@@tony359 sorry. It was clear liquid but red hot lol.
ah, gotcha! It's weird, capacitors have very little liquid inside. This screams "DANGEROUS" though! :)
So what causes the black line? Can it not be repaired?
No unfortunately. It's the ribbon cable which connects to the panel itself. I played with it years ago. Those things cannot be re-attached, the moment you remove them the LCD is for the trash - at least this is my understanding. So I live with it :)
Thanks for watching!
I was thinking bad solder joints from the start, in addition to bad caps. Lots and lots of monitors/TVs around that time frame has issues in those 2 areas.
65C is nothing though, good quality caps should last decades in that environment. Even 90C isn't a problem, though it'll last shorter than at 65.
I've recently learnt about cap duration: even high quality ones are rated 2-5000 hours at rated temp - which is not much for a monitor! But every 10C less than rated temp, the life increases by 10x. Most of those caps are 105C but if they live at 90C, then they won't last much. I had no idea there was a formula to calculate! Thanks for watching!
Might be the Eeprom next to the regulator. Had this problem on an Iiyama B2475. Had to read it while it was still warm. Replaced it, monitor has been working for 5 Years now.
Ah, that was the eeprom? Could be. The monitor is still working though :) Thanks for watching!
I had the same issue myself with a different monitor. Those flash chips flaking out is a common fault.
The 24" monitor I fixed years ago worked for years after replacing the regulators. This 27" works for now... :) Fingers crossed!
We have a couple of these monitors at the office, one of them the main ic got a short (dead obviously) and on the others the panel turned so yellow like you have turned the eye saver mode on.
This one is so SLOW in getting to the final brightness. In winter time when I turn it on to use the microscope I always have to wait at least 5-10 minutes before it gets of a decent brightness! Oh well it's an old lad :)
Fantastic video and commentary. Great photography, great audio, evidence of clear faultfinding logic. I subscribed half way through the first video of yours I have watched. If anything, I think you are being a little overcautious in arriving at a diagnosis. Boots and all, I would have more easily jumped to a conclusion, and replaced that voltage regulator on principle 😂 But thank you VERY much. I will definitely be watching all previous videos. I'm not a serious electronics expert, but I recently acquired a Dell monitor that switched on but had garbled lines all over the screen. I dismantled all the boards out of the chassis, and even carefully bent the - what do you call it? - controller board and all its little ribbon cables away from the back of the LCD panel. Re-applied power to all, and lines persisted. Idly percussed (tapped) that controller board along its length with my index finger, and the lines disappeared and the pictured returned. And now I can't break it again, so I have marked with a sharpie the spot on the controller board I tapped to make it work again, and I use the monitor successfully every day!! Holding thumbs...
The magic finger :)
Thanks for your kind words, it takes a while to make those videos so your comments are particularly appreciated!
If I were to repair that monitor as a paid service then of course you don't waste time and replace parts (though I would need to order that part which would take time). But this is my "hobby" so the purpose is more to learn and "see what happens if..." than "I need this working again ASAP" :) Hence the extra diagnostic process on the way!
Those lines should be caused by the ribbon cable which goes to the LCD panel itself, over time they might develop some bad contact. On this very monitor I can reduce the lines if I physically twist the whole monitor a bit! I opened it up some time ago and it's one of those ribbon cables which has an IC on it! But from what I hear, they're not fixable and it's easy to trash the whole monitor. I suspect - it's a wild guess - that your tapping "fixed" one of those ribbons rather than the controller board. But I cannot be sure. "If ain't broke, don't fix it" - and old say claims. I never follow that and often break them more so I can fix them again! :)
Thanks again! :)
Thank you for your advice. The spot I tapped was not directly opposite one of the two ribbon cables in to the monitor. I suspect a dry joint on the board which I accidentally fixed by tapping so well that now all works and all is quiet on the western front! As you say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"! I am in South Africa and have a ham radio licence hence my comment ID ZS1DFR. Thanks again, Dave
My main monitor at home is the 24" version, so this is really good to know!
There you go! I wonder how many of those monitors ended up in the landfill because of that...
I had a Neo Geo AES that would eventually black screen and reboot after it was fully warm. It was the LM2576T switching VRU that was to blame.
Using a soldering iron on lowish temperatures to heat up the tab of the voltage regulater might have been a bit more precise then hot air.
Nice fix on this one👍
Repaired a control pcb for a cherrypicker at work the other day that had a irf5305 that runs super hot and was toast.
Looks like thermal design sometimes is forgotten by engineers.
Indeed, never considered that. Next time!
Most of the time thermal design is affected by marketing. Or planned obsolescence. So many examples come to mind. :(
In this case to be fair I feel the monitor is cooled properly - it's just a heat generator because of CCFL lamps... Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I can picture the bean counters going "oh, this aluminium pointy thing is SO EXPENSIVE. That component already has its own metal plate, right?"
@@IlBiggo 100%! :)
Thanks for sharing, Monitors with all the different connections are awesome.. cheers.
They are! I have much more modern DELL's on my desk and they only take digital inputs...
probably the unleaded solder. its truly doesn't lend towards longevity in electronics components. the heating cooling cycle seems to make the lead free stuff have the cold/cracked solder joints more often, especially in cases like this, from what i've seen.
and while they do appear to have improved the overall lead free formula some, leading to fewer such cases in newer products.. that early run of stuff is largely all ticking timebombs for repair, if subjected to a lot of heat cycles. some of the parts survive this fine, they just need resoldered. and sometimes the intermittent connections take the parts out, too.
doesn't help that they don't seem to put heatsinks in some places that could really use them.
For sure unleaded solder can do that - what puzzles me is why that regulator every time :) Maybe the edge of the board? No idea :) Thanks for watching!
Yeah I couldn't get enough heat into the xbox board I recapped recently. I used hot air and my solder plunger. However I should of tried braid. I warped the board a little using hot air. It was fine until I wired in the glitch chip backwards and blew up a PNP transistor that is on the bleeder circuit. Hopefully once I replace it no major damage was done to it.
The XBOX - and the PS3 - are a Royal pain. The whole board has multiple ground planes I guess. If you don't have a pre-heater you need to take your time with hot air (better a heat gun but be careful!) and SLOWLY heat the whole board until it gets to 120/130C. THEN, you can remove the caps and it'll still be tough.
Others just set the "hot air at maximum" but as you noticed it's more likely to cause damage.
Bear in mind that an object takes time to warm up so don't be scared of warming up the board for 2-3 minutes before soldering - but be careful as heat guns can go up to silly temperatures so keep it at some distance. Good luck :)
@@tony359 Exactly. I started by replacing all the big caps first doing the same thing. However I took my time there. Slowly heating. Tested it since I've never seen it power up (xenon bad caps). Worked. Went to replace all the small caps the next day (since they came with my console5 kit) and thats when I think I warped the board. I might've been too fast with the heat. I should of also tried wick but my mind was fixed on using my solder plunger. My pinecil couldn't put enough heat into the hole to keep it molten to suck, but wick probably would've worked. Made me realize I might need to upgrade to a T12 soldering iron.
Really hoping I didn't do permanent damage to it shorting the 3v3 rail. All resistances are high. I just need to replace the burned out BCP51 PNP transistor for the bleeder circuit. I get them next week. Fingers crossed.
If it is damaged. Oh well. Great learning experience. Albeit a close to $50 USD one. It'll make a good parts board if so lol
I hope you can revive it!
@@tony359 Thanks Tony, and thank you for the video as always!
I own the same monitor and have the same issue with it: heating that IC and the monitor works again. Thanks for the video and it may be an unusual fault in terms of repairing a TFT but it seems a usual fault when it's about this specific monitor model.
That's so weird! And my monitor is STILL working now so that was definitely the issue. Imagine how many monitors went to the landfill because of that...
@@tony359I have same monitor but have different problem. My main supply don't show 24V like in Yours video but only 20V.
@@michachojnowski9004 Does it read 20V even with the motherboard disconnected? If so, chances are you just need to replace the output capacitors, the ones on the right hand side. Please be careful with power supplies, the voltage there goes to 340V and they can kill you. Capacitors store energy when the monitor is unplugged.
Great video again Tony, keep it coming :)
Thank you for watching!
Good job Tony!
I think that line could either be some weak connections in the ribbon cables to the LCD panel, or maybe some issues with the buffer board ( but weak connections to the panel it's self seams more likely since they are so isolated ), that could also be a long term heat generated issue ( not sure if it is fixable ).
PS: I absolutely hate CCFL units ( be they monitors or TV's ), they are real power hungry beasts, less efficient than LED units ( way less ), thus they all run very hot, and so the caps have a hard life in them. Lelon and Elite are still decent caps in my opinion, even if they are no Rubycon or Nichicon or Panasonic...I have used them in some of my projects and none of them failed ( still i never accept them running at more than let say 40-45*C, anything more means redesigning the project ).
For reliability reasons, since you do need that monitor, i think you could try and help it run a bit colder, not sure if better heatsinking is doable since so many components run very hot, but maybe some small fans places somewhere on the lower side of the monitor, underpowered so they are not noisy, could still help to a way better convection.
I know, it would not look very factoryish but...
I tinkered with that ribbon cable and yes, it would affect the lines but I didn't feel like disassembling further as those things can be easily broken. There was an IC (?) soldered on the cable itself and I felt the issue was with that.
I think I'll add a fan on top powered by the USB 5V :) It will likely reduce the temps by 20C.
On caps life, I've recently learnt that every 10C cooler you run your caps will extend their life by 10x. Not joking, there are official calculators online. So 40C or 80C means 40x life difference, impressive! Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 yes, that's sort of a chip on board, the lcd driver. And yes, those ribbons are fragile.
Not sure if a fan on top would be the best choice, it would have to draw out the heat, but it could only do that if there are enough ventilation holes on the bottom, and it would get sort of cooked by all that heat ( most of the heat would run trough it ).
On the bottom instead it would blow cold air in, so it would also run quite cold. but again the case would still have to have proper ventilation holes in the top side.
Still, any version should lead to a better thermal management, so the choice is yours.
PS: Any type of stress on the caps affects their life, of course heat is their main enemy, but the current ripple is also a type of stress that affects an electrolytic cap's life, less current ripple means longer life, that's why most of the switching supplies have paralleled caps, they share the load, thus the stress on each is less ( that is also the main reason low esr caps are needed ).
yes that was my thought: if the monitor lasted 15 years without a fan, an extra fan on top should extend its life quite a lot!
@@tony359 true.
With new caps and some ventilation the monitor shoul do it's job years to come.
Last i repaired a monitor which cooked some components, i added a handful convection ventillation holes to it because the failure was where the airflow was the worst. Whether it helped, i don't know, the monitor then died of a different fault and now needs a full backlight rebuild, might do eventually, might not. I had done one previously.
I think the Dell has a good ventilation - it's just that it's a heat generator! If the panels were so hot with the case fully open, you get what you get with a case on top I think. Never swapped a backlight yet, maybe in the future... :)
@@tony359 OK so what i managed to do right last time - permanently disabled the complete high voltage generator portion of the power supply for peace of mind. Didn't kill the panel while folding and unfolding the flex PCB that grows out of it or during other manipulations. The placement, glue and cooling of LED strips on the aluminium inner frame of the monitor turned out good. I was also smart enough to test the strips thoroughly before installing them, pressing on LEDs to make sure they aren't about to die, because some did, and running them on low current to see which ones have internal resistance way higher and swapping them out. Also isolating control signal from the logic/scaler board went well and applying it to the LED backlight - i didn't use the DIM input, just the EN input. I also ran the ground terminal to one end of each strip and positive to another, distributing the resistance of the strips between the LEDs and making them light super evenly.
What didn't work well. I left a tiny particle of dust in the monitor, and unfortunately this was the doom of it about 5 years later - the new owner insisted on cleaning it and trying to scratch off the "dirt" until they broke the panel.
The panel also turned out spectacularly bright at max setting. But this was just a little unusual, not really a hard detriment.
What really didn't work well was the colour temperature. Way too blue. Next time i don't use replacement strips as is but order nicer quality LEDs that are neutral in colour temperature close to original CCFLs or warmer, heatgun the shit LEDs off the strips and install new ones.
Correct me if i am wrong, but i believe the capaticance of the scope probe stops the crystal from resonating
It can - I think it needs to be probed at the "output". The bottom line is that you should be able to see something - and you can see that when the monitor finally started, I was able to probe them too.
Great video and repair! I'm wondering if that linear voltage regulator that heat-soaks the entire board could be replaced with a switching one, like the ones from Traco. I also like Dell monitors, just bought a couple of 2414Hs for my own needs very cheap. Some days I should check the caps in them, I suppose. I do not need the diverse inputs of older ones, I have an entire scaler video chain built into my workbench for my old computers, with external input switching, etc.
That monitor is really a space heater, I'm not sure a mod like that would be worthwhile. I'd like to see if I can stick a small USB-powered fan on the top of the case though, that might help.
If it didn't have those lines on the side...
I also have lots of scalers and adaptors but NONE of them works as well as the Dell monitor!! Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Scalers - As a Swiss-army knife of scalers, I stand by the Extron DSC 301 HD. I'd run this up against a Dell monitor any time... Also because you can't record what the monitor scales, but you can capture the HDMI output of this one... And yes, you're right, that it doesn't worth to fix this monitor further, but it would be still an interesting experiment to see how much a switching regulator replacement affects the heat generation/heat soaking of that PCB at least. Maybe some people could do preventive maintenance, if there's a reasonable impact?
Interesting, I purchased an Extron some time ago, it was supposed to be good but I could not make it work, it was more or less de-interlacing all the time for no reason. I got in touch with Extron support and they couldn't even understand what was going on so I had to return it. I have 3 or 4 capture devices and it's a jungle. I have to use a different one depending on which device I am using :)
@@tony359 Not sure what you mean by "de-interlacing all the time", but yeah, our use cases might be different, and in my experience, this particular type of Extron is really good, some others I've tried, especially older ones - not so much. But whatever floats the boat of course.
But my experience: I'm responsible for Amiga and Oldschool compo-captures, or connecting retro machines to a digital video chain on several demoparties and other retro events, and the Extron even helps with the de-cluttering. The DSC 301 HD has a HDMI input, so I can just use whatever other converter as front-end (OSSC, RetroTink, etc) and I always get a super-stable guaranteed 1080p60 or 50 output, which I can route into an Elgato Game Capture HD60S+ or X, or a Blackmagic ATEM Mini, and get a perfect full HD capture. (Although the ATEM's built-in scalers are quite good as well.) Additionally, I also use the RGB input of the Extron a lot (for Amiga, Atari, and anything I can easily turn into analog RGB), because I found it's more tolerant to signal quirks than a lot of scalers/converters I've tried, and it's CVBS output is also there for a fallback, should I need it. So yeah. It is my key to a single-capture device chain.
And yes, it's a slightly older device, so the RetroTink 5x Pro's recent firmware updates, and especially the RetroTink 4K (I have both) now start to catch up/surpass it in quality and some features, I still think I'm going to use it for years to come.
Anyway, I don't want to over-explain it. Still enjoying the videos you make it, however you like to make them, so keep it up. :)
A weird effect as if the Extron was applying de-interlace to a progressive signal. I sent the video to Extron and they were puzzled too. I got that Extron as it was supposed to work well with a C64 but it didn't work on mine. Spend several days updating, resetting, trying other sources but eventually Extron support gave up and so did I.
I was indeed looking for a single capture device which worked with everything but so far I don't have it. It's ok, I can cope. But it's been a bit frustrating :)
Good Job!
Thanks!
Heating up the dry caps revives them briefly
Yes, that's my experience too, even pretty dead ones! :)
Take an esr meter and measure all caps out. I fixed 8 out 10 monitors at my work just with that. Those weren't not same models at all.
I honestly forgot to test those caps - but since they were leaky, I just swapped them...
Have 2 lovely ASUS monitors 27 and 32 inch. both dead. can't see any bad caps, helplessly probing around on the boards, voltages fine, a few ICs being very hot but no shorts found at all.
It's just frustrating.
Tell me about that, I hate when I can't revive something! :)
Thank you! Nice job!
Thank you!
65° when it is open on the desk. But how hot will it become when all lids are on and the case is closed. Maybe a heatsink on the hottest parts is an idea.
There are some heatsinks already - the hottest component I showed sits on a heatsink which is touching the chassis behind the board. It think the cooling is ok, it's just what could be done passively. I'm actually thinking of plugging a 5V fan in the USB port, that would probably lower the temps by 20C inside. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Yes, what about a thin centrifugal (quiet) fan in the space above the power board (if possible) to help encourage convection and cooling?
Yes, I am considering that. To be honest I'd like to just stick a USB-powered fan on the top of the monitor where the vents are to help with convection. But yes, I do have centrifugal fans which would work beautifully inside that cage! Thanks for the idea!
My Dell U2312MH from 2011 has the same issue, after a while with the power plug unplugged it takes about 30 minutes for it to turn back on again. I leave it on power (I had some power strips with a switch and was planning to switch everything off to save power with devices in stand-by).
If it finally fails I'll just replace the regulator like you did with the old monitors, and maybe reflow a few components and recap. It's also a monitor that can take just about anything and display it. Great for my Amiga and MSX computers!
Yes, those old DELL's were amazing! I hope your lives for much longer!
I have similar style HP to repair but I can't find a fault! Congratulations of a succesfulll repair!
It has to be capacitors! ;)
Thanks!
@@tony359 All voltages and clocks are fine, there is activity on address lines, VGH and VGL is present on T-CON. I'm out of ideas. Last thing to do is to check do VGH is able to reach other side of ribbon cable. I just have no time to do it :/
it's probably an obvious check you've done already but are you sure it's not the backlight gone? What are the symptoms?
@@tony359 Backlight goes on, no picture, no osd and the monitor goes into standby after short time.
uhm... interesting. If it goes into standby it looks like it doesn't sense the input. But you're also saying there is no OSD. It might be sensing a fault and shutting down. What model is that?
Great as always!! Great Job
Thank you!
I have the same monitor, replaced it this past summer on chinese 29 inch ultrawide. I sold the main from this monitor, and the other stuff is not selling. Problem I had was flex that attaches to the glass on the screen -- basically black lines. Bad screen. Some say it could be soldered, but I trashed the entire monitor for parts. By the way, you have same black line in the same place I had, but then it got worst and on the other side as well. If you take the screen apart, you can put some paper between flex and metal, that might fix that line a bit.
ahah I tried the paper trick already! Lasted a week :)
@@tony359 If it's like mine, then start looking for FYHXele, because it will only get worst with time.
It's been "stable" for years now so fingers crossed!
I have many other monitors here - but none have the analogue inputs this have!
Great job!
Thank you!
Great video!
Thanks!
Why heating bad caps can make them work as they were not faulty? I've seen that finally the problem was the regulator but im curious about that... Haven't heard that before, maybe i should start using that technique too. Good video!
I'm not sure. When capacitors age, the fluid inside (electrolyte) dries out - or leaks as in this case. I think warming it up changes its properties and becomes more "active". Take a look at this short video I made for PCBWay, you can clearly see on the scope the effect of heat/cold.
ruclips.net/video/949bkSPWL7o/видео.html
maybe add some small heat heatsink to help a little
I think I'll add a USB powered fan instead. It's plenty of heatsinks there, the issue is that the whole thing is an oven.
I have the exact same monitor with the exact same lcd problem.. in the exact same spot lol. Those lines do be annoying :D
it's soooooo annoying! I did open up the frame of the monitor some time ago, it's something with those yellow flat cables taking the signal to the panel. I think they soldered an IC **ON IT**. Chances of making it worse are big so I left it as it is.
Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Wow! Those vertical lines are in the exact same location as mine. Mine, however, disappears when the monitor warms up. Is it possible to swap the LCD panel with a different one? They're fairly cheap on eBay. The big issue of course will be pinout compatibility.
It used to be the case with my 27" too. Then one line started not disappearing. Then two lines, then... If I twist the monitor, physically, the lines reduce a bit. I never considered swapping the panel TBH, I have bigger monitors on my desk now and this is fine for a workshop :)
@@tony359 Thought I'd give you an amusing update - I just had to perform the same operation on mine.
Regulator still seem fine but caps were mostly shot and the heat transferring pads seem to leak some gunk that was all over the board. Gave it a good wash and replaced all of them. Let's cross fingers :)
@@Chriva I had that "liquid" on mine too but to be fair I left it there - it wasn't over the board though, only on ICs and on the pads themselves.
Great to know another one of those monitors saved from the landfill! Thanks for the update!
suscribed
Thanks/Grazie :)
Well fettled!👍👍
i have a dell, too, 1908fp i think, so when it fails, i know where and what to look for :) i really thought it was the caps :))
Dell was making great monitors back then - though there were so many different HW revisions, each with their own issues :)
Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 my pleasure, Tony, love your content
Is the monitor still alive?
Coincidentally I was thinking about that just the other day: YES, it's still working fine so it was definitely that regulator! Unbelievable!
I love my 2709!
Use a soldering iron instead of the hot air to pinpoint...
Ah, good idea thanks!
Maybe just replace those crappy green caps?
Northridge fix uses thermal camera to look for hot-spot.
Hot spot is when you have a short. I don't have a short in this case unfortunately. :)
👍👍👍👍👍
Yellow line moves depending on where he tests
Yellow line?
@@tony359 it showed what looked like the front of the monitor and there was a yellow line and it moved depending on where you were testing
Ah - that is the oscilloscope, it's a test tool to visualise electrical signal. At some point I'll make a video to explain how to read an oscilloscope in a - hopefully - simple way.
@@tony359 ah I've seen those I thought it was the actual monitor screen and it reacting to the positive and negative probes as it was the same colour
It'a Dell that's why it lasted so long.
ahah - well all my three DELL's failed so...
(I shouldn't jinx it, I am using three newer DELL's now!)
@@tony359 failed after 15 years though, a lot of the modern junk only last 3 years due to the LEDs burning out. I think the Repair was worth it though.
oh absolutely. I have many other monitors but they're all DVI/VGA only!