Before the discussions online a few of us in our group were talking about this and how to better conceptualize it. Your videos always come at the right time and your library is invaluable. Always a pleasure to learn more.
Hi Greg, is there a rule for how much knee flexion is acceptable in the power position, at what point is the knee angle too big or too small? Thank you!
Not exactly - in the actual lifts, it's dependent on proportions and the timing of initiating the second pull. So it's possible to have too much, but assuming the snatch/clean are being done correctly, your goal is to replicate approximately the knee angle you personally have at the end of the scoop of your own snatch/clean.
A few months ago I bought your book and a pair of weightlifting shoes. I can tolerate a decent amount of training volume due to a few years of general strength training (SBD and lots of OHP) and my mobility is ok. Should I pick the Level 0 template or the Beginner template?
From power position, yes; not hang in general. No reason hang from knee or below knee, for example, would necessarily prevent your replicating the same errors you make from the floor.
@@CatalystAthletics So something more along the lines of a high hip snatch? And I’m not a full on weightlifter but I do enjoy them very much and think they help with dunking. I appreciate the tip and it is a very good point. I thought my problem was because I wasn’t keeping my feet on the ground as long as possible in the power position was translating to jumping back which may be a by product of leaning too far back.
@@charlesborel8493 No because hip snatch means shoulders are over the bar and hips are back, which is not power position. End of this video shows what I'm talking about.
@@CatalystAthletics okay I get it, was a little confused but I understand what you mean by power position. So a better ? Would be would what do I need to work on to stop jumping back in the power position/ drill that would help
@@charlesborel8493 Pull to hold, pull from power position, pull to hold or pull + snatch... all focusing on whole foot balance through the drive instead of shifting toward heels. www.catalystathletics.com/exercises/
That's considered ideal, but depending on how/why heels are up at that point, it may or may not be a problem - ruclips.net/video/vK_wyp2cI84/видео.html
What video of yours would you recommend for people who Power clean more than they clean? I weigh about 72kg and my clean is 114 while my power clean is 118
Should the power position at the clean needs to also be at the hip similar to a snatch or is it okay to have it higher at the thigh(lower hip contact) For me, who has a relatively short torso but longer arms, I struggle the most creating contact at the hip in clean. I have to be almost near the width of my snatch just to have the bar contact at the hip
I'm definitely not trying to argue! I'm just trying to understand and learn, since this has been absolute pain in the ass for me in the past three years of self teaching. Power position to me has been a bit different. My shoulders are slightly over the bar since I feel like that position is the strongest. I feel like in that position I could almost jump to the moon. ( see a video of Julian for example: ruclips.net/video/M6GgRysZlbg/видео.html this could be me if there was less weights on the bar, less muscles... basically less everything, but the position looks identical to mine, this is the image in my head every time I pull, snatch or clean ) I think Torokthyi teaches snatches in this way and some other people in the internet that I've stalked furiously like Samtlr ( ruclips.net/user/shortsHY_IsWURH-o ) and Yasha Kahn. In this power position video you described in the end that you should not stay over the bar excessively, but in this exercise it's actually enforced and encouraged ( ruclips.net/video/eHarHXNcId8/видео.html ) to reach the "hip pocket" while staying over the bar. How... Well... Shit. Can I conclude this whole ordeal like: - Staying over the bar exercises where you excessively try to stay over, strengthens your posterior muscles so you can remain more patient with the pull - It doesn't mean that snatches or cleans should be actually done with a form like that where your power position ends up being over the bar?
That's quite a novel so I'll do my best to cover it all... 1. PP has nothing to do with where you feel most powerful. If so, it would be just above the knee. 2. The Samtlr guy... the first photo he uses is of me. That's not the power position. It's a moment in the second pull before reaching the power position. Again, see #1 - it's not the power position because it's the most powerful position, so this is a problematic argument. The analogy he's making to other sports (the athletic position) isn't appropriate because it's comparing 2 unrelated things (again, see #1). 3. Halting DLs, pulls to hip, etc are exercises to build postural strength to be capable of staying over the bar long enough - to that end, we exaggerate the timing of staying over. Similar to how we use a muscle snatch to strengthen the 3rd pull - you can't look at that exercise and assume it reflects what should be happening in an actual snatch. 4. Conclusion - yes.
Is it a technical issue if my torso doesn't lean back as much after hitting the power position?, i tend to naturally stay quite upright after hitting the power position, but still my shoulders are behind the barbell. For example, see Nathan Damron he doesn't lean back as much when he hits the power position, should this be fixed or it doesn't matter? Thanks as always Greg
You need to open the hips enough to be balanced (if whole body is actually vertical, balance is forward) and allow the bar and body to move past each other well, i.e. bar not moving to far forward. How much that is varies among lifters quite a bit.
Hey Greg, should I stick to the same weight in front and back squat until the weight feel easy or should I move to next weight if I hit the same weight 4-5 times in a row..(I feel the same weight heavy sometimes,but I hit that weight more than 10 times but it feels heavy sometimes what should I do should I stick to the same weight or move on..
Yes the goal is to progress in weight but as above said, you should be following a program. Tons of free and cheap ones out there. At your level of experience, you shouldn't be trying to program for yourself. www.catalystathletics.com/olympic-weightlifting-workouts/training-programs/
Before the discussions online a few of us in our group were talking about this and how to better conceptualize it. Your videos always come at the right time and your library is invaluable. Always a pleasure to learn more.
as always Greg delivers
Great context and break down.
Hi Greg, is there a rule for how much knee flexion is acceptable in the power position, at what point is the knee angle too big or too small? Thank you!
Not exactly - in the actual lifts, it's dependent on proportions and the timing of initiating the second pull. So it's possible to have too much, but assuming the snatch/clean are being done correctly, your goal is to replicate approximately the knee angle you personally have at the end of the scoop of your own snatch/clean.
Thank you!
Very good !
A few months ago I bought your book and a pair of weightlifting shoes. I can tolerate a decent amount of training volume due to a few years of general strength training (SBD and lots of OHP) and my mobility is ok. Should I pick the Level 0 template or the Beginner template?
Start with level 0 and see how it goes - you may be able to move past it quickly.
@@CatalystAthletics Nice. Thank you!
Didn't know he he had a book! What's it called?
@@curtisgorkoff7519 amzn.to/31OkIqB
What do you recommend someone doing who’s timing is off? My form is still terrible and I’ve been doing these lifts for 3 years now
The power position is where drive the legs into floor and extend hips ?
No - legs have been driving the whole time, and the hips have been extending for a while by that point.
So hang variations would be a good way to train yourself not to jump back when in the power position?
From power position, yes; not hang in general. No reason hang from knee or below knee, for example, would necessarily prevent your replicating the same errors you make from the floor.
@@CatalystAthletics So something more along the lines of a high hip snatch? And I’m not a full on weightlifter but I do enjoy them very much and think they help with dunking. I appreciate the tip and it is a very good point. I thought my problem was because I wasn’t keeping my feet on the ground as long as possible in the power position was translating to jumping back which may be a by product of leaning too far back.
@@charlesborel8493 No because hip snatch means shoulders are over the bar and hips are back, which is not power position. End of this video shows what I'm talking about.
@@CatalystAthletics okay I get it, was a little confused but I understand what you mean by power position. So a better ? Would be would what do I need to work on to stop jumping back in the power position/ drill that would help
@@charlesborel8493 Pull to hold, pull from power position, pull to hold or pull + snatch... all focusing on whole foot balance through the drive instead of shifting toward heels.
www.catalystathletics.com/exercises/
Do the heels have to be in contact with the floor/feet flat at the power position?
That's considered ideal, but depending on how/why heels are up at that point, it may or may not be a problem - ruclips.net/video/vK_wyp2cI84/видео.html
Coach is up early.
I thought the power position is the quarter squat, the position you catch the bar in a power clean or power snatch.
In that context, it can refer to that.
What video of yours would you recommend for people who Power clean more than they clean? I weigh about 72kg and my clean is 114 while my power clean is 118
Is yours an ankle mobility issue?
high hangs are your friends
See this - www.catalystathletics.com/article/2058/How-to-Fix-Powering-More-Than-You-Squat/
@@ea5266 not that i know of because getting low isn’t uncomfortable to me, and my knee crease is well above my hip crease
Sir how much the knees should be pushed out in starting position of snatch?
Typically until they contact inside of arms. - ruclips.net/video/af5P5rbWaSs/видео.html
Should the power position at the clean needs to also be at the hip similar to a snatch or is it okay to have it higher at the thigh(lower hip contact)
For me, who has a relatively short torso but longer arms, I struggle the most creating contact at the hip in clean. I have to be almost near the width of my snatch just to have the bar contact at the hip
"at the hips in the snatch and between upper thigh and hips in the clean."
I'm definitely not trying to argue! I'm just trying to understand and learn, since this has been absolute pain in the ass for me in the past three years of self teaching.
Power position to me has been a bit different. My shoulders are slightly over the bar since I feel like that position is the strongest. I feel like in that position I could almost jump to the moon. ( see a video of Julian for example: ruclips.net/video/M6GgRysZlbg/видео.html this could be me if there was less weights on the bar, less muscles... basically less everything, but the position looks identical to mine, this is the image in my head every time I pull, snatch or clean )
I think Torokthyi teaches snatches in this way and some other people in the internet that I've stalked furiously like Samtlr ( ruclips.net/user/shortsHY_IsWURH-o ) and Yasha Kahn.
In this power position video you described in the end that you should not stay over the bar excessively, but in this exercise it's actually enforced and encouraged ( ruclips.net/video/eHarHXNcId8/видео.html ) to reach the "hip pocket" while staying over the bar.
How... Well... Shit.
Can I conclude this whole ordeal like:
- Staying over the bar exercises where you excessively try to stay over, strengthens your posterior muscles so you can remain more patient with the pull
- It doesn't mean that snatches or cleans should be actually done with a form like that where your power position ends up being over the bar?
That's quite a novel so I'll do my best to cover it all...
1. PP has nothing to do with where you feel most powerful. If so, it would be just above the knee.
2. The Samtlr guy... the first photo he uses is of me. That's not the power position. It's a moment in the second pull before reaching the power position. Again, see #1 - it's not the power position because it's the most powerful position, so this is a problematic argument. The analogy he's making to other sports (the athletic position) isn't appropriate because it's comparing 2 unrelated things (again, see #1).
3. Halting DLs, pulls to hip, etc are exercises to build postural strength to be capable of staying over the bar long enough - to that end, we exaggerate the timing of staying over. Similar to how we use a muscle snatch to strengthen the 3rd pull - you can't look at that exercise and assume it reflects what should be happening in an actual snatch.
4. Conclusion - yes.
@@CatalystAthletics thanks for taking the time to answer, truly appreciated.
Early bird
Is it a technical issue if my torso doesn't lean back as much after hitting the power position?, i tend to naturally stay quite upright after hitting the power position, but still my shoulders are behind the barbell. For example, see Nathan Damron he doesn't lean back as much when he hits the power position, should this be fixed or it doesn't matter?
Thanks as always Greg
You need to open the hips enough to be balanced (if whole body is actually vertical, balance is forward) and allow the bar and body to move past each other well, i.e. bar not moving to far forward. How much that is varies among lifters quite a bit.
Hey Greg, should I stick to the same weight in front and back squat until the weight feel easy or should I move to next weight if I hit the same weight 4-5 times in a row..(I feel the same weight heavy sometimes,but I hit that weight more than 10 times but it feels heavy sometimes what should I do should I stick to the same weight or move on..
if you don't have a program you should always move up the weight if you can.
If you do have a program, just follow the program and trust the process.
@@alubchicken thank you
Yes the goal is to progress in weight but as above said, you should be following a program. Tons of free and cheap ones out there. At your level of experience, you shouldn't be trying to program for yourself.
www.catalystathletics.com/olympic-weightlifting-workouts/training-programs/
@@CatalystAthletics thank you I bought your Olympic weightlifting book thrid edition it really helping me.
I'm early
Fuck power position cleans.
Aaaaaaaaahaaaaaa, eureka moment!