I think a workshop series of videos called "5e Intervention" or something like that would be amazing, where you discuss how to play Pathfinder 2e from the perspective of 5e veterans, and warn us of things we may reflexively want to do from our understanding of the other game. I'm having difficulty in some areas understanding the ruleset. In particular, various rules such as crafting due to having an Inventor player. Explorer mode is also still kind of a strange concept, too.
Seconded, PF2's downtime rules seem super robust and interesting but because D&D 5e's are... _Not_ that, I have no experience running anything like it and don't know where to even begin. I know it's not strictly necessary for a fun campaign but I want my table to be friendly towards classes like Alchemist or, indeed, Inventor that rely on it much more than others.
I just want to add on what everyone else is saying, I love this method of approaching preparation you've provided here and will be implementing it immediately. Thank you so much for both sharing this and doing it in such a way that it was incredibly clear and concise. I know you haven't uploaded in a bit but want to give my love regardless.
Definitely would love to see more videos like this. Doesn't need to be a full run through of an AP but taking encounters/explorations from APs and breaking them down like this is super helpful for my transition from D&D to Pathfinder 2e GM'ing. This last sunday my group just started trying to utilize exploration more (Having a notecard over the GM screen noting which sort of mode they were in) and we are slowly getting used to its differences than D&D.
13:10 - I had a group who did this constantly. And apparently reassuring them again and again and again, over and over, that further investigations yields no additional knowledge isn't a good reason to nudge them towards the adventure. 😂 I remember having to pull up my big boy pants and tell them "We got 4 hours to game, and this first room is taking 2 hours. As much as I want to make sure you understand every state of matter in your vicinity, the rogue in your party has been waiting patienty to go deeper." And lord have mercy if I EVER try to spring up combat without giving a logical non-skill-rolling chance to identify EVERYTHING. Needless to say, that group is gone and I'm playing with a much better group for my style. ✌️
I'm a new PF2e GM transitioning my game over from 5e. And can I just say that this and your previous exploration mode video have been an INCREDIBLE relief? We play on roll20, and what you described about large dungeons is basically exactly how I already tend to run. A more cinematic theater of the mind, then a map when the characters enter an encounter. I didn't realize that PF2e's exploration mode cleaves so much more closely to the way I prefer to do things than 5e does, and I appreciate all of your advice about using proficiency levels as a shortcut, as well as your clear-cut explanations of exploration actions and how they can significantly streamline the whole process. I have been in the situation before where characters have spent a literal half-hour nit-picking all the details of a given room, and I love that exploration mode seems tailor-made to cut a lot of the excessive fine-tooth-combing out. I'm really looking forward to running my first session of PF2e in a couple of weeks and putting all of this wonderful information to use!
@@bestlaidplansgmprep I'm very excited! I'm actually watching your other videos now even though I'm running a homebrew game and not Strength of Thousands. You have an extremely lovely straightforward way of explaining how and why you do things and even if I'm not specifically running SoT there's plenty of good information there to crib from. :)
My character: "I'm looking out for danger." GM: "Can you be more specific?" I recently had this happen. Turns out, the activity I was looking for was probly "defend," or "scout."
Search for objects? Like Traps, Hazards, Haunts? Maybe even secret paths? Defend as Raising the shield if enemies attack? Scout as giving +1 to initiatuve? Tracking could also be one option. Seaching for hidden creatures if they might be laykngnin ambush? But Sciutingnir lirenprioerky Keeping Watch would be the best 😂 there is also Find Traps feat on Rogue ysing Avoide Notice sneaking in front scouting...
Another great video showing clear and concrete ways of implementing narrative exploration mode. I am pretty jazzed to try this the next time I run. Thanks again for such high quality content.
An interesting twist in the Remastered rules is the Light cantrip. It allows for 4 separate globs at a time now. Three could be attached party characters and the caster could also control one ahead of the party by up to 120 ft allowing and archers to potentially start the encounters at a large range. Makes the search options interesting even if whole party does not have Darkvision.
I just ran the first half of this adventure and this video was integral in helping me seamlessly transition from room to room. All four of my players really felt empowered and special whenever a trained skill allowed them to bypass something or when their character spotted something handy thanks to exploration. Great video!
Nice sum up of thing... This method catch my atention on the las video, but the especifics on *how* to use is was a bit confusing. Thank you for giving us a most detailed explanation.
Really great to hear you explain exploration mode for the beginners box. Coming from a d&d background, this is a much more streamlined approach. I would have easily fell back into multiple checks showing down the game to a literal crawl, without this timely advice!
Really great insight on how to run dungeons. Biggest challenge for modern tabletops is time: Time in encounter mode time exploring etc. This expidites things greatly and I really hope One D&D takes notes
Couldn't agree more. One of the things I try to keep in mind while preparing sessions is 'Get to the good stuff' because as fun as it is to have a long-term story arc pay off in a narrative moment, you'll never get there if people aren't having fun in tonight's session.
I definitely think there's a conversation to be had here about how exploration works in PF2e. Activities done while exploring should act like a passive perception in 5e. If a player is investigating then they should notice things. Even if those things prompt more investigation to best a DC. I think a lot of people (I was guilty of this) fall into this mentality that players need to declare that they stop and investigate stuff. If that's the case why even use exploration activities?
hello! i don't understand very well the difference between investigation and search.Aside from that, very instructive video for someone like me that wants to try pathfinder 2e, thanks
Search is specifically looking for traps and hidden *hazards*. Investigate is more like Sherlock Holmes looking for clues - you're looking at things which are in plain sight, and pondering how they fit together or consulting books and notes as you move.
In a pure RAW sense, Investigation often triggers Recall Knowledge checks. Like if you see the name of a ship in the harbour, you might roll Society, History or an applicable Lore skill like Sailor or Andoran to realise that "Oh that's the famous ship 'The Chainbreaker' who's captain has terrorized Cheliax's shorelines for decades while forcefully freeing indentured servitors and slaves." ^^
One slight concern -- sneaking past the spider, skipping portions of the levels means less experience points for the characters, which can lead to some er... challenging encounters later on.
Fair point! My rule of thumb is if the players do something to actively avoid or circumvent the hazard or combat, to still reward them the experience as if they had defeated it. So in that case, if they all made Acrobatics checks to avoid the webs, I'd award them the experience for "defeating" the Spider. You can only get the experience once, so they wouldn't get it again if they came back and won a combat encounter against it, so it's a good way to encourage creative and non-violent solutions. Strength of Thousands uses that a lot to good effect.
Actually book does say to give XP if the PCs do sneak past the spider initially. I ran the beginner box for some friends, and it definitely did say to grant XP for solving challenges even if fighting wasnt involved. You just dont give them XP if they fight the spider later on.
5:30 My problem with doing this is you invalidate ancestry/heritage/feat choices. Be wary of brushing obstacles aside if you're coming in from another system where they don't matter as much.
Hey! I'm curious what you mean by invalidating an ancestry/heritage/feat choice. As I said in the video, when using Proficiency thresholds I also give the opportunity for players to be creative and tell me other Lores/Spells/Feats they think could stand in for the situation. In this case, an Ancestry that could 'Glide' or a character with the 'Cat Fall' skill feat could use that as a stand-in for the Athletics proficiency since it would make sense in the context of the story. If I'm misunderstanding, let me know!
Probably could be its own whole discussion. In brief, a lot of the actions the players would choose from would be different (there are social Exploration Activities like 'Impersonate', 'Gather Information', or 'Make an Impression' and many Skill Feats that modify those options) so you'll need to be familiar with what those Activities do and what types of clues and hazards they may reveal or interact with. However, the philosophy remains the same as in a dungeon crawl: 1) Describe the scene and identify in advance what types of Proficiency Thresholds or Checks would uncover information ("Mingling at the dinner party are two clusters of nobles from rival houses, a group of servers and stewards, and a man in the corner scribbling in a notebook.") 2) Ask players what their goals are, and help them identify Exploration Activities for those goals ("You want to learn who is funding the Cult? That's probably 'Gather Information' activity which would take you around an hour. You want to try listen into the service staff's conversations for gossip you can blackmail with? You could either Avoid Notice , or could Impersonate to grab an apron and start serving food alongside them.") 3) Narrate the results based on what they selected and reveal information or consequences accordingly.
The goal is to try to avoid metagaming. If the GM calls for a Perception check and the player sees that they rolled a 2, the player may proceed more cautiously or change approach, even though the character wouldn’t know anything was amiss. If you’re not sure how well you rolled, you have no choice but to push on. It also has the opportunity for more tension when the players are more in the dark. Some tables don’t like that, and certainly nothing breaks if the GM has players roll some or all “Secret” checks themselves.
I think this is a mis-read of the exploration activities they are not meant to completely replace calling for checks and actual exploration. You’re basically putting the game on auto pilot and robbing players of their agency. Exploration activities in dungeons are meant to avoid the gm”you step forward and walk into a trap” player:” oh I would have been checking for traps I didn’t see it” gm “I didn’t hear you say that you were looking for traps. Players get to choose an exploration activity to state what they are doing as they passively move from one room to the next. But they can still call for active checks.
Appreciate the perspective! I think it's a popular way to play D&D-style games to have players call for their own checks, and PF2e can definitely support that style too. I would disagree that it's a misread of the rules though - the Core Rulebook says GMs are responsible for determining when PCs make checks. The Gamemastery Guide discusses Scenes within Exploration, talking about "breaking out of a scene at a point of interest" much as discussed in the video to give characters a chance to change what their character is doing and react to new information. So at the very least, there is support for both approaches. It's a balancing act with this style for sure - don't give enough pauses to reassess actions and 'change scenes' and players might feel on autopilot like you mention. Too many check-ins and you've effectively gone into Encounter Mode asking players to narrate almost every Action they take. But I've found with some practice our table is able to tell way more story in a session, while keeping the players in control of their PCs and having agency over the narrative.
I think a workshop series of videos called "5e Intervention" or something like that would be amazing, where you discuss how to play Pathfinder 2e from the perspective of 5e veterans, and warn us of things we may reflexively want to do from our understanding of the other game. I'm having difficulty in some areas understanding the ruleset. In particular, various rules such as crafting due to having an Inventor player. Explorer mode is also still kind of a strange concept, too.
Seconded, PF2's downtime rules seem super robust and interesting but because D&D 5e's are... _Not_ that, I have no experience running anything like it and don't know where to even begin. I know it's not strictly necessary for a fun campaign but I want my table to be friendly towards classes like Alchemist or, indeed, Inventor that rely on it much more than others.
I just want to add on what everyone else is saying, I love this method of approaching preparation you've provided here and will be implementing it immediately. Thank you so much for both sharing this and doing it in such a way that it was incredibly clear and concise. I know you haven't uploaded in a bit but want to give my love regardless.
Definitely would love to see more videos like this. Doesn't need to be a full run through of an AP but taking encounters/explorations from APs and breaking them down like this is super helpful for my transition from D&D to Pathfinder 2e GM'ing.
This last sunday my group just started trying to utilize exploration more (Having a notecard over the GM screen noting which sort of mode they were in) and we are slowly getting used to its differences than D&D.
Awesome to hear. My group has had a few breaks but I'm still planning to do more with Strength of Thousands so will keep that in mind.
13:10 - I had a group who did this constantly. And apparently reassuring them again and again and again, over and over, that further investigations yields no additional knowledge isn't a good reason to nudge them towards the adventure.
😂 I remember having to pull up my big boy pants and tell them "We got 4 hours to game, and this first room is taking 2 hours. As much as I want to make sure you understand every state of matter in your vicinity, the rogue in your party has been waiting patienty to go deeper."
And lord have mercy if I EVER try to spring up combat without giving a logical non-skill-rolling chance to identify EVERYTHING.
Needless to say, that group is gone and I'm playing with a much better group for my style. ✌️
I tell my group that a skill check represents the culmination of their efforts to do a thing, so they should use Aid and such NOW.
It's insane that you have less than 1k subs. This is extremely high-quality, high-level advice presented in an extremely natural manner.
This is so useful. I ve been busting my brain trying to figure out the dungeon prep with exploration mode in mind.
Glad to hear!
I'm a new PF2e GM transitioning my game over from 5e. And can I just say that this and your previous exploration mode video have been an INCREDIBLE relief? We play on roll20, and what you described about large dungeons is basically exactly how I already tend to run. A more cinematic theater of the mind, then a map when the characters enter an encounter. I didn't realize that PF2e's exploration mode cleaves so much more closely to the way I prefer to do things than 5e does, and I appreciate all of your advice about using proficiency levels as a shortcut, as well as your clear-cut explanations of exploration actions and how they can significantly streamline the whole process. I have been in the situation before where characters have spent a literal half-hour nit-picking all the details of a given room, and I love that exploration mode seems tailor-made to cut a lot of the excessive fine-tooth-combing out. I'm really looking forward to running my first session of PF2e in a couple of weeks and putting all of this wonderful information to use!
Appreciate the kind words, thank you! Excited that it sounds like the system will be a good fit for how you like to play!
@@bestlaidplansgmprep I'm very excited! I'm actually watching your other videos now even though I'm running a homebrew game and not Strength of Thousands. You have an extremely lovely straightforward way of explaining how and why you do things and even if I'm not specifically running SoT there's plenty of good information there to crib from. :)
My character: "I'm looking out for danger."
GM: "Can you be more specific?"
I recently had this happen. Turns out, the activity I was looking for was probly "defend," or "scout."
Search for objects? Like Traps, Hazards, Haunts? Maybe even secret paths?
Defend as Raising the shield if enemies attack?
Scout as giving +1 to initiatuve?
Tracking could also be one option.
Seaching for hidden creatures if they might be laykngnin ambush?
But Sciutingnir lirenprioerky Keeping Watch would be the best 😂 there is also Find Traps feat on Rogue ysing Avoide Notice sneaking in front scouting...
Another great video showing clear and concrete ways of implementing narrative exploration mode. I am pretty jazzed to try this the next time I run. Thanks again for such high quality content.
An interesting twist in the Remastered rules is the Light cantrip. It allows for 4 separate globs at a time now. Three could be attached party characters and the caster could also control one ahead of the party by up to 120 ft allowing and archers to potentially start the encounters at a large range. Makes the search options interesting even if whole party does not have Darkvision.
I just ran the first half of this adventure and this video was integral in helping me seamlessly transition from room to room. All four of my players really felt empowered and special whenever a trained skill allowed them to bypass something or when their character spotted something handy thanks to exploration. Great video!
Nice sum up of thing...
This method catch my atention on the las video, but the especifics on *how* to use is was a bit confusing.
Thank you for giving us a most detailed explanation.
aw man i'm looking forward to much more videos from you!, prepping newer APs and other adventures!
Really great to hear you explain exploration mode for the beginners box. Coming from a d&d background, this is a much more streamlined approach. I would have easily fell back into multiple checks showing down the game to a literal crawl, without this timely advice!
Great vid man thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Really great insight on how to run dungeons. Biggest challenge for modern tabletops is time: Time in encounter mode time exploring etc. This expidites things greatly and I really hope One D&D takes notes
Couldn't agree more. One of the things I try to keep in mind while preparing sessions is 'Get to the good stuff' because as fun as it is to have a long-term story arc pay off in a narrative moment, you'll never get there if people aren't having fun in tonight's session.
I definitely think there's a conversation to be had here about how exploration works in PF2e. Activities done while exploring should act like a passive perception in 5e. If a player is investigating then they should notice things. Even if those things prompt more investigation to best a DC.
I think a lot of people (I was guilty of this) fall into this mentality that players need to declare that they stop and investigate stuff. If that's the case why even use exploration activities?
Nice walkthrough, insightful😊
Love the way you break this down. Really helpful tips.
This was super helpful. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
hello! i don't understand very well the difference between investigation and search.Aside from that, very instructive video for someone like me that wants to try pathfinder 2e, thanks
Search is specifically looking for traps and hidden *hazards*. Investigate is more like Sherlock Holmes looking for clues - you're looking at things which are in plain sight, and pondering how they fit together or consulting books and notes as you move.
@@bestlaidplansgmprep this helps a lot :D thanks
In a pure RAW sense, Investigation often triggers Recall Knowledge checks. Like if you see the name of a ship in the harbour, you might roll Society, History or an applicable Lore skill like Sailor or Andoran to realise that "Oh that's the famous ship 'The Chainbreaker' who's captain has terrorized Cheliax's shorelines for decades while forcefully freeing indentured servitors and slaves." ^^
Really great advice here.
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@bestlaidplansgmprep loved! Can't wait to the next prep. Its pure gold for GM's
One slight concern -- sneaking past the spider, skipping portions of the levels means less experience points for the characters, which can lead to some er... challenging encounters later on.
Fair point! My rule of thumb is if the players do something to actively avoid or circumvent the hazard or combat, to still reward them the experience as if they had defeated it. So in that case, if they all made Acrobatics checks to avoid the webs, I'd award them the experience for "defeating" the Spider. You can only get the experience once, so they wouldn't get it again if they came back and won a combat encounter against it, so it's a good way to encourage creative and non-violent solutions. Strength of Thousands uses that a lot to good effect.
Actually book does say to give XP if the PCs do sneak past the spider initially. I ran the beginner box for some friends, and it definitely did say to grant XP for solving challenges even if fighting wasnt involved. You just dont give them XP if they fight the spider later on.
5:30 My problem with doing this is you invalidate ancestry/heritage/feat choices. Be wary of brushing obstacles aside if you're coming in from another system where they don't matter as much.
Hey! I'm curious what you mean by invalidating an ancestry/heritage/feat choice. As I said in the video, when using Proficiency thresholds I also give the opportunity for players to be creative and tell me other Lores/Spells/Feats they think could stand in for the situation. In this case, an Ancestry that could 'Glide' or a character with the 'Cat Fall' skill feat could use that as a stand-in for the Athletics proficiency since it would make sense in the context of the story. If I'm misunderstanding, let me know!
Good video, hoss! *CHA'ALT*
Does anyone know how this apply to social encounters ?
Probably could be its own whole discussion. In brief, a lot of the actions the players would choose from would be different (there are social Exploration Activities like 'Impersonate', 'Gather Information', or 'Make an Impression' and many Skill Feats that modify those options) so you'll need to be familiar with what those Activities do and what types of clues and hazards they may reveal or interact with.
However, the philosophy remains the same as in a dungeon crawl:
1) Describe the scene and identify in advance what types of Proficiency Thresholds or Checks would uncover information ("Mingling at the dinner party are two clusters of nobles from rival houses, a group of servers and stewards, and a man in the corner scribbling in a notebook.")
2) Ask players what their goals are, and help them identify Exploration Activities for those goals ("You want to learn who is funding the Cult? That's probably 'Gather Information' activity which would take you around an hour. You want to try listen into the service staff's conversations for gossip you can blackmail with? You could either Avoid Notice , or could Impersonate to grab an apron and start serving food alongside them.")
3) Narrate the results based on what they selected and reveal information or consequences accordingly.
@@bestlaidplansgmprep thanks for the quick response ! I’ll be looking forward to it if you make a video about it :D your content is super useful
I really dont get why in pf2e, the DM rolls for the players with secret checks. Can somebody explain the thoughts behind that for me?
The goal is to try to avoid metagaming. If the GM calls for a Perception check and the player sees that they rolled a 2, the player may proceed more cautiously or change approach, even though the character wouldn’t know anything was amiss. If you’re not sure how well you rolled, you have no choice but to push on. It also has the opportunity for more tension when the players are more in the dark.
Some tables don’t like that, and certainly nothing breaks if the GM has players roll some or all “Secret” checks themselves.
@@bestlaidplansgmprep Thanks! I have looked more into it and this really helps.
I think this is a mis-read of the exploration activities they are not meant to completely replace calling for checks and actual exploration. You’re basically putting the game on auto pilot and robbing players of their agency. Exploration activities in dungeons are meant to avoid the gm”you step forward and walk into a trap” player:” oh I would have been checking for traps I didn’t see it” gm “I didn’t hear you say that you were looking for traps.
Players get to choose an exploration activity to state what they are doing as they passively move from one room to the next. But they can still call for active checks.
Appreciate the perspective! I think it's a popular way to play D&D-style games to have players call for their own checks, and PF2e can definitely support that style too. I would disagree that it's a misread of the rules though - the Core Rulebook says GMs are responsible for determining when PCs make checks. The Gamemastery Guide discusses Scenes within Exploration, talking about "breaking out of a scene at a point of interest" much as discussed in the video to give characters a chance to change what their character is doing and react to new information. So at the very least, there is support for both approaches.
It's a balancing act with this style for sure - don't give enough pauses to reassess actions and 'change scenes' and players might feel on autopilot like you mention. Too many check-ins and you've effectively gone into Encounter Mode asking players to narrate almost every Action they take. But I've found with some practice our table is able to tell way more story in a session, while keeping the players in control of their PCs and having agency over the narrative.