This is quite a well thoughout take despite the cryptic psyop way it's described. It's true, make the raid a little hard, and people feel both entitled to clearing, and also indifferent to clearing. Making struggle seemingly pathetic rather than motivating. Make the raid WAYY too hard, people go in expecting to have to really put fourth effort, and can feel content in whatever they could clear, rather than disappointed with what they couldn't.
I just loved the raids that I can't clear with my guild because we are not enough or not stuff enough or don't skilled enough... I want to know what we could imrove and try again. I missed that time, when we were raiding for trying new strat knowing we ll probably fail, Sod is just too easy.
This'll sound corny but in 2019, I used to host MC's and BWL's every week on my small medium pop server. Some weeks we wouldn't kill rag or nef and when we did it made it feel extra special. It also made collecting good players even more rewarding. Once we started getting more and more good players into the group, we felt progression as a group and there was a ton of comradery each week. Eventually we became well known on the server as being a pretty legit MC/BWL pug group. We would happily take new players invited by trusted players. We would goof off listening to crappy music in Discord while drinking and killing bosses. What a fun time.
What youre talking about is what i was hoping for originally. Did quit for a week or two when bfd was cleared in 20hrs. Was hoping for some progression, not for the top 10% sure, but for most people. Shouldnt be able to full clear with a pug in week 1, maybe shouldnt be able to full clear with the average pug period. Maybe not kael / kt difficulty, but at least make it a challenge. Havent been in gnomer yet, was on vacation, and also, just not driven to "hurry up and get there" when were going to be able to casually walk through it and have all the gear in a couple weeks.
I think the problem is classic 2019 made people feel entitled to 1 day clears. Proggression used to mean something. People were upset that it took them 2 nights to fullclear gnomer like wtf Even if you are trash at the game just wait 3 weeks without doing nothing and by that time everyone will be geared and easily clear with you anyway lol
I dont like hard raids in vanilla honestly. I don't wanna have to farm consumes to survive. I dont mind consumes to do better dps... I enjoy classic hanging out with friends, having a few drinks and having fun. Make a heroic version if ya want harder and add 1 pc of loot per raid but no ilvl diff. coming from someone who parses 97-99's..If I really wanted hard, I would go to retail and do some mythics
This 100% there is a hard wow out there, go do cutting edge Mythic Raiding in retail if you want hard. Go do M+ pushing to 30s or whatever the high end is now.
This is about where I'm at although I don't parse 90+ regularly. I enjoyed just being able to hop on at reset, but a single fap, jump into a random PUG, and clear BFD for the chance at some gear. Then hop over to another 25 and do it again or do some PvP or level a new alt.
I'm a 99 average type as well. I dont mind hard raids. I can handle the difficulty. The people I run with (friends and PUGs) cannot. I dont want to struggle to clear in classic because I'm not running with autistic sweats every week. I'm too old to be putting in 12hrs days and to put up with autistic screeching and N-word spam in discord.
Went in there with my chill guild members with most of us still wearing 80% of the gear from BFD on the 2nd week and it was overall pretty easy. Fun but easy
I just wish SoD would pick an identity already and stick with it. BFD was fun b/c the only mechanics in those fights were generally handled by the tank(s) and 1 other player like a hunter and pet. The rest just had to avoid stuff, Gnomer on the other hand has too many individual responsibilities on top of the tanks having to deal with mechanics and control of the fight.
Phase 2 has a massive drop because there isn't anything to do.. there was no pre raid gear grind. No important rep grinds. You get your bkood weap in a single day. There's hardly any content this phase. I run around IF bored. Nothing to do
I see your point here, an partially agree. But I think this would be hard to balance not from a technical standpoint more the a casual to pro gamer balance. You don’t earn money if a lot of people quit soon, cause they are wiping over and over and over again with consumables and gear crafting being overprice as it is right now. Sure gnome is quite easy if your group knows what to do, but with 60 you have other raids to progress gear, with 40 there are not many option outside of raid, Maybe few pvp rewards who are also a pain in the ass to grind. So yeah I agree that if blizzard don’t set the difficulty higher in later phases it’s to easy for everyone but right now, it’s in a good spot right now for lvl 40.
for me the worst problem is class balance, people make a raid with 8 casters ( even 10 now with warlock tanks) and the melee players just dont raid in general, raids should be easy even for pugs to clear, its okay if they are hard in week 1 to 2 tho
Wildstar did this and died. They wanted the raids to be only for the elite. You need the average player involved in the end game as well for it to succeed.
imo they should lower the item drops instead of raising the difficult, for me the only item that i rly want is the axe and not being able to kill the last boss make me rly upset, but if took more kills to get the item i wouldnt be that upset tbh
I don't think people understand how important GDKP is when it comes to rewarding raid organisers. Big drop in PUGs because no one wants to run SR raids and get nothing for their time and effort.
I hate going into a pug and then being fine without clearing like wtf. And gnomer isn’t too hard just turn brain on. I want it hard enough that you have to think about it and there are strats but if you pump and learn the Strats it can die. I want to use brain, I think gnomer is good honestly it’s a does tank have brain raid and most don’t or they lie
Honestly the chatter I see is people just aren’t having fun. Oddly it’s majority warlocks for some reason but I kind of agree. Blizz is like “what’s the dungeon from this lvl bracket that literally everyone hates, make that the phase end content people will love that”
SoD is for trying new things that honour your time, leave progging to mythic retail Raids.... This is also lvling Raids which are supposed to be Alt friendly... Easy clear get the loot and have a fun chill time that's how it should be.
The things is: Gnomer is not hard, not a single bit. People are expecting piñatas, but if u take the time to learn the mechanics they are super easy to learn. That's the problem with most SOD players, they left TBC/WOTLK/RETAIL because they don't want to do any single mechanic or maybe because some are also old and lazy.
@@thefart I've never dungeon spammed, just quested. But the whiny dads with 6 jobs and 20 kids won and you got your wish, so you can now play 1 hour per week and be up to speed. Congrats.
@@thomas-xr6jq yes, the entire server population starting at the same level in zones not designed to handle that kind of volume sucked. No part of that is the classic experience.
We have had raids way harder than this i mean some guilds just fininshed clearing LC in WRATH so I disagree with that. The GDKP scene was just a bit more popular that what people thought and with that goes people doing them to raid. IMO the reason for this is partly bc the META gets esblished so fast and in order for many to even get in the raid they have to instantly have bis before getting in. So they do GDKP'S buy gear to even be able to play the game. AS everyone has seen in LFG when looking for more they want geared and logs. The other half are players wanting to get easy gold bc they are in a guild and got their gear fast. LMAO the players are destroying the game not BLIZ. I think this game was for people wanting to play new classes for a slower pace to have fun in a fun environment. I think the gamers fustrated at the gatkeeping elites with be the ones who love this game and it will settle how it was supposed to be played.... maybe.
Wanting vanilla content to be "hard" is zogged af, vanilla is for blasting easymode 20 year old elf simulator content. If you want challenging content play retail lol (ironically most of the ppl calling for harder content are not good enough for retail, just above the average classic dad gamer).
People who play Season of Discovery and watch your videos, who know the proper rotation, care about their parses and watch videos/ect to improve are the small small minority. Making the raids "hard" isn't good for the majority of their SoD playerbase. If they increase the difficulty, it should be a dps/healing difficulty where the average raid group will gradually overcome it by gearing out. The last 2 bosses of Gnomer having more mechanics than the previous 4 bosses combined was a mistake, and the average group/pug is still going to "struggle" even when fully geared. Especially considering -stam gear being "optimal" for the best 2 classes right now.. RIP the casual playerbase. - EDIT: I do agree though, that if they ARE going to increase the difficulty, that's 100% the right way to go about it. And please for the love of god have a gradual increase in boss difficulty
I guess I just have a different mindset. I tryhard SoD because I enjoy doing so, but I don't want the majority of the playerbase to be gatekept because we (the minority) of players would enjoy the sense of progression from a more difficult raid. Everyone that clears the content "deserves" the rewards- all i'm saying is content should just be kept easy/enjoyable
@@coltoncompton3922 Yeah it's a roundabout topic but making the raids as easy as dungeons(which they have been so far) just makes sod 10 hours of leveling 2 hours of runes and world event 30 minutes of raid.
Dude if gnomer is to easy people complain it's to hard people complain but gnomer isn't hard so people should stop crying it's not a 1 shot fight for. A first timer you die a few times learn boss mechanics then it's easy
Nah, just nobody learned how to truly play and understand their class, they just use op runes and look at parses and they think they understand the game lul how many warriors use improved demo shout and thunder clap? Or druid hurricane? 2 best debuffs in the whole game? Attack speed reduction. Parses wil never show that
wait...did you say private servers were hard? the only difference between private servers and classic were a couple of small technicalities that resulted in artificial difficulty increases...that were extremely minimal.
I like pugging raids because I can raid on my time whenever I want. Harder raids = less puggable. Less puggable = join a guild. I don't like guilds so I just don't raid. I'm not bad at the game whatsoever but I don't want to waste my time wiping in a PUG because of the other 9 braindead clowns. So I'll stick to just pvping.
Banning gdkps declined tge server pops to an extent all the guilds on my server went from backlog of players to rotate in to were recruiting active players.
This is quite a well thoughout take despite the cryptic psyop way it's described. It's true, make the raid a little hard, and people feel both entitled to clearing, and also indifferent to clearing. Making struggle seemingly pathetic rather than motivating. Make the raid WAYY too hard, people go in expecting to have to really put fourth effort, and can feel content in whatever they could clear, rather than disappointed with what they couldn't.
why does this video give me serious Charlie vibes from Always Sunny In Philadelphia explaining conspiracies lol
Check the first frame lmao
@@JakeFromTree god damn it subliminal messaging, the irony is I didnt see the first frame since I was getting ganked lmao
Because it is huehue
i think some of it is lack of alts. This phase doesnt seem alt friendly
XP buff needs to be in the game permanently. Leveling in Classic is a chore, even if it is only to 40.
@@CardBoredB0xfor seasonal servers I love the exp buff, but for a hypothetical classic + 'forever' server hell nah
I just loved the raids that I can't clear with my guild because we are not enough or not stuff enough or don't skilled enough... I want to know what we could imrove and try again. I missed that time, when we were raiding for trying new strat knowing we ll probably fail, Sod is just too easy.
This'll sound corny but in 2019, I used to host MC's and BWL's every week on my small medium pop server. Some weeks we wouldn't kill rag or nef and when we did it made it feel extra special. It also made collecting good players even more rewarding. Once we started getting more and more good players into the group, we felt progression as a group and there was a ton of comradery each week. Eventually we became well known on the server as being a pretty legit MC/BWL pug group. We would happily take new players invited by trusted players. We would goof off listening to crappy music in Discord while drinking and killing bosses. What a fun time.
I almost passed out the first time we killed vael lmao.
I was VERY worried about how raid would go
Least unhinged JakeFromTree video
This is actually my favorite video of yours so far. Keep this energy king
They need to release the raid with only bosses that auto attack so the average player can succeed.
Sitting here and listen and starting to digg to the music and was like "wait a min isent that C&C music" and started to headbang even more😅
What youre talking about is what i was hoping for originally. Did quit for a week or two when bfd was cleared in 20hrs. Was hoping for some progression, not for the top 10% sure, but for most people. Shouldnt be able to full clear with a pug in week 1, maybe shouldnt be able to full clear with the average pug period. Maybe not kael / kt difficulty, but at least make it a challenge. Havent been in gnomer yet, was on vacation, and also, just not driven to "hurry up and get there" when were going to be able to casually walk through it and have all the gear in a couple weeks.
I hurried up and then realized I wasted my time lmao
I think the problem is classic 2019 made people feel entitled to 1 day clears. Proggression used to mean something. People were upset that it took them 2 nights to fullclear gnomer like wtf
Even if you are trash at the game just wait 3 weeks without doing nothing and by that time everyone will be geared and easily clear with you anyway lol
Totally did
If you manage to get in a group that is
Learn how to make friends kek @@thefart
Nice content and very well put!
I dont like hard raids in vanilla honestly. I don't wanna have to farm consumes to survive. I dont mind consumes to do better dps... I enjoy classic hanging out with friends, having a few drinks and having fun. Make a heroic version if ya want harder and add 1 pc of loot per raid but no ilvl diff. coming from someone who parses 97-99's..If I really wanted hard, I would go to retail and do some mythics
New dungeons would be nice xd
This 100% there is a hard wow out there, go do cutting edge Mythic Raiding in retail if you want hard. Go do M+ pushing to 30s or whatever the high end is now.
This is about where I'm at although I don't parse 90+ regularly. I enjoyed just being able to hop on at reset, but a single fap, jump into a random PUG, and clear BFD for the chance at some gear. Then hop over to another 25 and do it again or do some PvP or level a new alt.
Yes
I'm a 99 average type as well. I dont mind hard raids. I can handle the difficulty. The people I run with (friends and PUGs) cannot. I dont want to struggle to clear in classic because I'm not running with autistic sweats every week. I'm too old to be putting in 12hrs days and to put up with autistic screeching and N-word spam in discord.
Its like me and my friend doing a powerpoint presentation in school after we smoked a fat one in the break before
I love this video make more like them
looks like emperor found his groove
Hardmode switches for extra loot drop would be great.
I'd say it's the try hard gatekeepers, requiring full buffs, consumes, parses, and pre-clears to even get into raids.
That's to raid with good raiders I see grps all day that are shitty grps you don't need all those requirements but your not gonna get carried to 6/6 😊
Good take. Nice presentation.
This is what I'm talking about: You're going to be a full-time RUclipsr soon.
Went in there with my chill guild members with most of us still wearing 80% of the gear from BFD on the 2nd week and it was overall pretty easy. Fun but easy
I just wish SoD would pick an identity already and stick with it. BFD was fun b/c the only mechanics in those fights were generally handled by the tank(s) and 1 other player like a hunter and pet. The rest just had to avoid stuff, Gnomer on the other hand has too many individual responsibilities on top of the tanks having to deal with mechanics and control of the fight.
Phase 2 has a massive drop because there isn't anything to do.. there was no pre raid gear grind. No important rep grinds.
You get your bkood weap in a single day. There's hardly any content this phase. I run around IF bored. Nothing to do
word brother
Season of Mastery was perfect, do that!
i like the new style - make it more of a crazy character and its golden.
It will be crazier next time
I see your point here, an partially agree.
But I think this would be hard to balance not from a technical standpoint more the a casual to pro gamer balance.
You don’t earn money if a lot of people quit soon, cause they are wiping over and over and over again with consumables and gear crafting being overprice as it is right now.
Sure gnome is quite easy if your group knows what to do, but with 60 you have other raids to progress gear, with 40 there are not many option outside of raid,
Maybe few pvp rewards who are also a pain in the ass to grind.
So yeah I agree that if blizzard don’t set the difficulty higher in later phases it’s to easy for everyone but right now, it’s in a good spot right now for lvl 40.
for me the worst problem is class balance, people make a raid with 8 casters ( even 10 now with warlock tanks) and the melee players just dont raid in general, raids should be easy even for pugs to clear, its okay if they are hard in week 1 to 2 tho
seasonal level up raids , aint nobody got time for that
Wildstar did this and died. They wanted the raids to be only for the elite. You need the average player involved in the end game as well for it to succeed.
imo they should lower the item drops instead of raising the difficult, for me the only item that i rly want is the axe and not being able to kill the last boss make me rly upset, but if took more kills to get the item i wouldnt be that upset tbh
I don't think people understand how important GDKP is when it comes to rewarding raid organisers. Big drop in PUGs because no one wants to run SR raids and get nothing for their time and effort.
dawg is that some AW2 music in the background? knew i loved this fuckin guy
Yeee that game rocks
Will if nobody cleared gnomer the first week we would still have some level of content more Than 80 mins of content a week atleast
I hate going into a pug and then being fine without clearing like wtf. And gnomer isn’t too hard just turn brain on. I want it hard enough that you have to think about it and there are strats but if you pump and learn the Strats it can die. I want to use brain, I think gnomer is good honestly it’s a does tank have brain raid and most don’t or they lie
Honestly the chatter I see is people just aren’t having fun. Oddly it’s majority warlocks for some reason but I kind of agree. Blizz is like “what’s the dungeon from this lvl bracket that literally everyone hates, make that the phase end content people will love that”
lmao 4 real
SoD is for trying new things that honour your time, leave progging to mythic retail Raids.... This is also lvling Raids which are supposed to be Alt friendly... Easy clear get the loot and have a fun chill time that's how it should be.
U forgot the " Buy some gold and do some gdkps"
it is classic ...hard means walk out of fire has been will be ..nothing else on retail but u have to /range 7 clean ...damn
Need to find balanxe
C&C ;)
Gnomer isnt hard but I def will not be pugging it. The mechanics can be a bit much for a bunch of randoms.
iv seen way to many streams where people they to pug gnomer and get no where
lol i have cleared every lockout on 2 toons in pugs only
this new format would be fine if you were wearing a lapel mic, but as it is you are either exploding the speakers or unhearable.
The things is: Gnomer is not hard, not a single bit.
People are expecting piñatas, but if u take the time to learn the mechanics they are super easy to learn.
That's the problem with most SOD players, they left TBC/WOTLK/RETAIL because they don't want to do any single mechanic or maybe because some are also old and lazy.
Make leveling not suck so we can pump the overall raider numbers like in Phase 1!
But they added xp to the box that costs 10 gold to fill up are you not happy?
Leveling not suck, huh? They literally give you a 50% xp buff from 1-25, is that not enough? Do you just not like classic and actually prefer retail?
@@thomas-xr6jqYou must be the only guy that enjoyed the 20 stockade runs and the 1000 scarlet monastery runs
@@thefart I've never dungeon spammed, just quested. But the whiny dads with 6 jobs and 20 kids won and you got your wish, so you can now play 1 hour per week and be up to speed. Congrats.
@@thomas-xr6jq yes, the entire server population starting at the same level in zones not designed to handle that kind of volume sucked. No part of that is the classic experience.
First video where I’ve ever kinda disagreed with you, but you’re still based.
We have had raids way harder than this i mean some guilds just fininshed clearing LC in WRATH so I disagree with that. The GDKP scene was just a bit more popular that what people thought and with that goes people doing them to raid. IMO the reason for this is partly bc the META gets esblished so fast and in order for many to even get in the raid they have to instantly have bis before getting in. So they do GDKP'S buy gear to even be able to play the game. AS everyone has seen in LFG when looking for more they want geared and logs. The other half are players wanting to get easy gold bc they are in a guild and got their gear fast. LMAO the players are destroying the game not BLIZ. I think this game was for people wanting to play new classes for a slower pace to have fun in a fun environment. I think the gamers fustrated at the gatkeeping elites with be the ones who love this game and it will settle how it was supposed to be played.... maybe.
Wanting vanilla content to be "hard" is zogged af, vanilla is for blasting easymode 20 year old elf simulator content. If you want challenging content play retail lol (ironically most of the ppl calling for harder content are not good enough for retail, just above the average classic dad gamer).
Well people stop playing when no one wants youe class due to 30dps less on some you tube vid
I mean limited raid runs per week. Bosses have high armor can u really blame them
Fuck yea
Gnomer isn’t hard. It’s just not that fun tbh 🤷🏻♂️
How is the raid hard? Average player apparently has 3 fingers
People who play Season of Discovery and watch your videos, who know the proper rotation, care about their parses and watch videos/ect to improve are the small small minority. Making the raids "hard" isn't good for the majority of their SoD playerbase. If they increase the difficulty, it should be a dps/healing difficulty where the average raid group will gradually overcome it by gearing out. The last 2 bosses of Gnomer having more mechanics than the previous 4 bosses combined was a mistake, and the average group/pug is still going to "struggle" even when fully geared. Especially considering -stam gear being "optimal" for the best 2 classes right now.. RIP the casual playerbase. - EDIT: I do agree though, that if they ARE going to increase the difficulty, that's 100% the right way to go about it. And please for the love of god have a gradual increase in boss difficulty
Well casuals dont deserve the non-casual min max gear you can casually play with the gear outside of raids
I guess I just have a different mindset. I tryhard SoD because I enjoy doing so, but I don't want the majority of the playerbase to be gatekept because we (the minority) of players would enjoy the sense of progression from a more difficult raid. Everyone that clears the content "deserves" the rewards- all i'm saying is content should just be kept easy/enjoyable
@@coltoncompton3922 Yeah it's a roundabout topic but making the raids as easy as dungeons(which they have been so far) just makes sod 10 hours of leveling 2 hours of runes and world event 30 minutes of raid.
no gdkp
Dude if gnomer is to easy people complain it's to hard people complain but gnomer isn't hard so people should stop crying it's not a 1 shot fight for. A first timer you die a few times learn boss mechanics then it's easy
in no way is gnomer too hard.
Nah, just nobody learned how to truly play and understand their class, they just use op runes and look at parses and they think they understand the game lul how many warriors use improved demo shout and thunder clap? Or druid hurricane? 2 best debuffs in the whole game? Attack speed reduction. Parses wil never show that
neither demo shout nor tclap is even remotely necessary for gnomer clears. shit easy raid really
Priest use homuculi does all
wait...did you say private servers were hard? the only difference between private servers and classic were a couple of small technicalities that resulted in artificial difficulty increases...that were extremely minimal.
I like pugging raids because I can raid on my time whenever I want. Harder raids = less puggable. Less puggable = join a guild. I don't like guilds so I just don't raid. I'm not bad at the game whatsoever but I don't want to waste my time wiping in a PUG because of the other 9 braindead clowns. So I'll stick to just pvping.
Theyre fine…..
It's also pay to win with the epic craftables.
SoD Raids are not too hard, the playerbase is just too bad, or unprepared, or too high, or too old, or some combination of all of the above.
yes gnome is too hard for me, i can't chilling while raiding
When they banned gdkp i was instantly done with sod, i dint like raiding with the possibilities of no reward so. Woylk it is.
Good bye !😂
no gdkp's I'd say is a big reason for less raids
95% of gdkp only raiders only raid logged, F em. They're mostly good players but not good for the game in general.
No
@@claytongiampaolo7848the whole argument was. How were gdkp raiders effecting anyone else?
@@ScottyMcAdamwhen was that said? And who is arguing, I think you might just be stupid.
Nerf Gnomergan. It should be a loot piñata. If you want harder content, then go play retail or wotlk.
Harder raids means better loot. If not it’s abusing ppls efforts. Devs are just brain dead
need 20 and 40 mans.
Banning gdkp is killing the game
Banning gdkps declined tge server pops to an extent all the guilds on my server went from backlog of players to rotate in to were recruiting active players.
Ppl cried BFD was to easy, now they mad it’s to hard. Gnomer isn’t hard sorry
Its because playing melee feels like a boring slog.