I would never have expected this! Instead I would have expected all manufacturers would be advertising their regenerative braking all over the place, if it was a thing! Thanks for your fantastic and insightful content. 👍🏻
@steveruta8746 Novak advertised that it had it but how good it worked it worked i couldnt really tell as the only competition was the resistor speed controls
@@steveruta8746 The Tekin 420p advertised it i am sure there is more. In the testing it looks like a castle sidewinder esc and a slightly higher end version of it that is on its side. I am thinking they all have it now and just stopped advertising it.
I just discovered your channel and it is chock full of great information. I appreciate your videos and hope your channel will reach as many people as it can!
I bet the reason why you have a higher "efficiency" at partial brake is that is the most braking effort the ESC can turn back into power, and anything higher it turns into a resistive "Load" or heat. To turn all the braking load back into power would require the ESC to be designed to be both a motor controller and a AC to DC rectifier and DC regulator, which would raise the cost , complexity and weight for little value, given most of the time the ESC is used for forward motion. GREAT VIDEO, very informative, you gained another subscriber!!!! Also, please do not shy away from the EE theory and math behind what you explaining, if people do not like the math, maybe you could give them a link to skip the math parts of the videos. I however love the math!
Yeah you have done it! 👍👍 Cool to see, that my assumptions from bench testing and voltage monitoring are true. Now, only one thing is open for me: does "drag brake" make sense to increase efficiency and if so, at how much percentage is it most effective? 😃 I think, by the tests you have done in this video, it would make sense to activate drag brake at the lowest setting. 🤔
Yes, your assumptions were spot on. I was expecting a lot lower efficiency than what had been calculated. You can simulate a drag brake yourself by using only a small percentage of braking effort when coming to a stop rather than 100% brakes applied.
@@RCexplained Yes Ryan! But that's a pretty simple and pragmatic solution. 😄 Wouldn't it be better if the controller took over the task and used every opportunity to regenerate? 🤓
Novak Electronics advertised their top racing brushed ESC's as having regenerative braking all the way back in the early 90's. Swapping to one of their esc's did seem to add a tiny bit of runtime and slightly faster laptimes at the end of a race.
So if I add a 1% drag break to the esc would that give a good regenerative effect. At 1% i would still have my truck roll without much resistance but would it charge much. I always wondered why there is a drag brake setting because if I want to slow down then I will apply said brake.
Good night Sir. I apologize for having an unrelated question in relation to this video. Can you please explain the difference between a standard ESC and a HV ESC for marine applications?
This is a great question. As the motor uses energy, equal capacity in mAh will come out of each cell. When the battery is charged by the ESC, equal capacity across each cell is placed back in to the pack. Since we know that we will never recoup the same amount of energy that was used by the motor to get up to speed vs braking, we will not run the risk of any charging issues. Each cell within the pack will be able to handle the amount of energy that is charged back in to the battery even if the cells are completely out of balance before the run started. Now if you had done what I did and charged the battery continuously like a generator for an extended period of time, you will not only need a balancer but also a charge controller. The ESC will not know when the battery is fully charged and would continue to push power to it. This could be bad for the LiPo. In the experiment, we could see the total amount of voltage and assuming the battery was balanced (it was) we never exceeded 4.0v per cell.
@@RCexplained I think if regenerative breaking was more optimized in rc cars it could be groundbreaking, just like ceramic bearings which I wish I could buy for my monster truck
Interesting, but isn't it that regenerative braking comes from the same motor that drives the vehicle? To understand it a bit better, if a magnet is in motion near a coil, it generates power from the coil. How I'd imagine it would work is a set of diodes connected to the 3 coils in an arrangement to charge the battery (through some sort of voltage regulator of course). Because the diodes are in place, it'll output power from the motor to the battery rather than the battery running the coils.
Hi Soul-Struck, the motor that was powered represents the kinetic energy of an RC Car travelling down the road. It's just a lot easier to show the relationship (and record video) by maintaining constant energy using a motor rather than having a car come to a stop. The motor doing the braking would have spun up the other motor if I hit the throttle rather than the brake. If I did this and used the other motor to brake, it would have started to charge the other battery.
This looks like two opposing motors and you are measuring the current of one of them. It does not look like there is any braking involved. The braking and acceleration current would need to be performed with the same motor.
Not sure if I understand exactly what you are saying. There is braking occurring, that is the whole point. Think about it as jumping in your car getting up to highway speed and then flooring the gas pedal at the same time as pressing the brake pedal just the right amount to maintain constant speed. At constant speed there is no "acceleration current." You don't need to replace your disc brakes on the car with an engine that is the same as what you have under the hood. In other words, I could have used any brushless motor as it is serving as a (virtual disc) brake and not being powered to accelerate the motor. I can't remember what I speak about in this video, but I'm sure I go through what is happening here in enough detail.
I would never have expected this! Instead I would have expected all manufacturers would be advertising their regenerative braking all over the place, if it was a thing!
Thanks for your fantastic and insightful content. 👍🏻
I have been waiting for this since 1988 when the Novak t4 came out. Great Job!
Did the Novak T4 have regenerative braking? I am looking for something to extend the runtime in an endurance race.
@steveruta8746 Novak advertised that it had it but how good it worked it worked i couldnt really tell as the only competition was the resistor speed controls
@@donaldcarter1206 were there any others that had this feature?
@@steveruta8746 The Tekin 420p advertised it i am sure there is more. In the testing it looks like a castle sidewinder esc and a slightly higher end version of it that is on its side. I am thinking they all have it now and just stopped advertising it.
I just discovered your channel and it is chock full of great information.
I appreciate your videos and hope your channel will reach as many people as it can!
Appreciate the comment Jackka82.
I bet the reason why you have a higher "efficiency" at partial brake is that is the most braking effort the ESC can turn back into power, and anything higher it turns into a resistive "Load" or heat. To turn all the braking load back into power would require the ESC to be designed to be both a motor controller and a AC to DC rectifier and DC regulator, which would raise the cost , complexity and weight for little value, given most of the time the ESC is used for forward motion. GREAT VIDEO, very informative, you gained another subscriber!!!! Also, please do not shy away from the EE theory and math behind what you explaining, if people do not like the math, maybe you could give them a link to skip the math parts of the videos. I however love the math!
Thanks you a lot for making a video about my question!
You're not the only one who had this question. That's quite interesting stuff. So we should share this video(s) wherever we can. 👍
Yeah you have done it! 👍👍 Cool to see, that my assumptions from bench testing and voltage monitoring are true.
Now, only one thing is open for me: does "drag brake" make sense to increase efficiency and if so, at how much percentage is it most effective? 😃
I think, by the tests you have done in this video, it would make sense to activate drag brake at the lowest setting. 🤔
Yes, your assumptions were spot on.
I was expecting a lot lower efficiency than what had been calculated. You can simulate a drag brake yourself by using only a small percentage of braking effort when coming to a stop rather than 100% brakes applied.
@@RCexplained Yes Ryan! But that's a pretty simple and pragmatic solution. 😄
Wouldn't it be better if the controller took over the task and used every opportunity to regenerate? 🤓
Novak Electronics advertised their top racing brushed ESC's as having regenerative braking all the way back in the early 90's. Swapping to one of their esc's did seem to add a tiny bit of runtime and slightly faster laptimes at the end of a race.
This is very interesting, thank u for teaching me something new ryan! Keep up the great content! Always looking forward to seeing new videos from you.
Hey Colin, appreciate your comment. There will be lots more content to come.
So if I add a 1% drag break to the esc would that give a good regenerative effect.
At 1% i would still have my truck roll without much resistance but would it charge much.
I always wondered why there is a drag brake setting because if I want to slow down then I will apply said brake.
A key point to make it the battery connectors. Loose connection to the battery and that voltage has no where to go.....🔥
Kinda ERS like in F1, sounds cool :)
Good night Sir. I apologize for having an unrelated question in relation to this video. Can you please explain the difference between a standard ESC and a HV ESC for marine applications?
HV - high voltage. HV is generally from 7 LiPo cells and up.
I have seen this with my fly sky radio with telemetry,when I brake the voltage goes up.
Me too!
Me too (Traxxas Telemetry, but with HW esc)
Dualsky has this function at the summit line esc's that would be a interesting experiment to put on the bench 🙂
which 2 escs are you using?
In theory unless it was balance charging, wouldn’t it be bad for the lipo?
This is a great question. As the motor uses energy, equal capacity in mAh will come out of each cell. When the battery is charged by the ESC, equal capacity across each cell is placed back in to the pack. Since we know that we will never recoup the same amount of energy that was used by the motor to get up to speed vs braking, we will not run the risk of any charging issues. Each cell within the pack will be able to handle the amount of energy that is charged back in to the battery even if the cells are completely out of balance before the run started.
Now if you had done what I did and charged the battery continuously like a generator for an extended period of time, you will not only need a balancer but also a charge controller. The ESC will not know when the battery is fully charged and would continue to push power to it. This could be bad for the LiPo. In the experiment, we could see the total amount of voltage and assuming the battery was balanced (it was) we never exceeded 4.0v per cell.
@@RCexplained I think that is pretty crazy, I never really though about regenerative braking even if it only put a lil bit back
I also did not understand it was occurring to this degree. Interesting stuff
@@RCexplained I think if regenerative breaking was more optimized in rc cars it could be groundbreaking, just like ceramic bearings which I wish I could buy for my monster truck
Great! does this apply to every ESC's or just high-end esc's? What about brushed setup? (Charles Garnier RC on FB)
I have not done any testing with a brushed setup. If the brushless ESC brakes the motor in the same way it doesn't matter if it's low or high end.
How does esc braking work. ,, Does 3 mosfets handiling +charge. Short circuits. Or. -ve. 3 mosfets short circuits
The FETS are used to short the motor windings
Interesting, but isn't it that regenerative braking comes from the same motor that drives the vehicle?
To understand it a bit better, if a magnet is in motion near a coil, it generates power from the coil.
How I'd imagine it would work is a set of diodes connected to the 3 coils in an arrangement to charge the battery (through some sort of voltage regulator of course). Because the diodes are in place, it'll output power from the motor to the battery rather than the battery running the coils.
Hi Soul-Struck, the motor that was powered represents the kinetic energy of an RC Car travelling down the road. It's just a lot easier to show the relationship (and record video) by maintaining constant energy using a motor rather than having a car come to a stop. The motor doing the braking would have spun up the other motor if I hit the throttle rather than the brake. If I did this and used the other motor to brake, it would have started to charge the other battery.
This looks like two opposing motors and you are measuring the current of one of them. It does not look like there is any braking involved. The braking and acceleration current would need to be performed with the same motor.
Not sure if I understand exactly what you are saying. There is braking occurring, that is the whole point. Think about it as jumping in your car getting up to highway speed and then flooring the gas pedal at the same time as pressing the brake pedal just the right amount to maintain constant speed. At constant speed there is no "acceleration current." You don't need to replace your disc brakes on the car with an engine that is the same as what you have under the hood. In other words, I could have used any brushless motor as it is serving as a (virtual disc) brake and not being powered to accelerate the motor. I can't remember what I speak about in this video, but I'm sure I go through what is happening here in enough detail.
4:22 this kindda electrical power(energy) never leaks into nothing... if finds something easy to heat, and make that energy into thermal...
Is cheap esc also provides. Extra running time???
All ESC's that brake using the same method will generate power that goes back in to the battery.
Thankks mann
Bro please put a video about vesc regenerative braking working
I'd like to make a video on this topic but do not own a VESC.
this dude i sthe elbert enstine of rc
Thanks for the comment Tam!