BMW S85 vs S63 The TRUTH What You MUST Know Before Buying Either Engine
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- Опубликовано: 8 май 2022
- BMW S85 vs S63 The TRUTH What You MUST Know Before Buying Either Engine
Nathan's BMW Workshop
Po Box 115 Altenburg Mo 63732
nathan.youtube@yahoo.com 
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At 90k mikes on either the S85 or the S63 engine,
1) find an old rock quarry that has filled up with water
2) at night, push the car in
3) call the police and report it stolen,
4) call the insurance company and file a claim.
😂😂😂😂 pray the lakes aren’t in California
lol
Sounds like the most solid service plan.
Hahaha my e93 m3 has 74k miles and it's had rod bearings done and at 69k miles complete engine rebuild for gbp5k 😂
This is why the E36, E46 and E39 M3 M5 values are rocketing - anything after this is just an unfixable ticking bomb.
Not really lol
@@pesos8101 Sorry, but the last good BMW engine was in the E46. After that they became less reliable and more difficult to maintain and repair.
@@frankmiller95 the new engines are better than u think
@@pesos8101 l think they're great performance-wise.....until they break, which they do, early and often. Ask any independent BMW tech and they'll tell you the same thing. How do l know? l used to be one.
@@frankmiller95I am not a fan of the turbo motors, but the the 4.0 V8 S65 engine in the e9x is probably the best M engine ever. Do the rod bearings (just like the S54 requires), and it is very reliable for a high revving engine. Compared to the S54, the S65 makes way more power, revs higher and stronger, sounds WAY better (can’t think of a better sounding engine actually),is lighter due to aluminum block and is more compact. E92 also is not known for failing subframes. E92 M3>e46 M3.
Nathan, love your brutal honesty on this. Keep up the good work 👍
It’s time to get together as a community and design modules to combine different parts of the engine together with as least hoses as possible. Adapters for the hose ports to normal hoses.
That’s just going to be more expensive to repair. The valve cover alone leaks on most bmws
where there is a gap , there is a market.
@@gottgaame valve cover leaks on all engines.
Nathan you “do know a few things about these engines”. Love the info and debate. Big help.
thank you Nathan for the information! keep up the great work
Having owned a few M54 which is an all time great engine I see so many people rolling around in X5M/X6M and they are just timebombs and the real deal breaker is that when you’ve put the money in to the M5 you’ve got a genuine appreciating asset and an awesome legendary car.
Huge petrol SUV’s have had their day and electrification and fuel prices will kill them off over the next few years, no one is going to want one as a toy or get nostalgic to own one but they will for the proper M cars so even if you’ve got to throw substantial money at an e60 M5 you’ll always get your money back on it.
Great video with explanations! Good knowledge and expertise in BMW's.
Very credible analysis - thanks !
Great video. I've got a 2013 x5m and she's definitely a huge pain to work on 😅
Much respect for being interested in hassling with this material. I mostly work with Audis and I thought it's bad, but to fully rebuild engine it costs 10k which is a lot for 10-20k cars. I thought Q7 is a money pit. Cant even finish watching your video, because I get your point. What a mess. Makes me sick. I imagine rebuilding someone's engine for 7k which is a lot for most people, and then hoses and cables and other stuff start to deteriorate when they wanna go on vacation with their 7k fully rebuilt motor. It's tough business, and we get to blame in the end.
Thank you so much, I was looking at a 2016 750 I because of your video I popped the hood and saw that the heat alone had deteriorated the engine cover and it smelled like antifreeze in the interior and this was at a BMW dealership where they were asking 19k with 97k on the odometer.
Great comparison. I have been considering moving on from my N54 and this gave me a lot to think about.
I sort of wanted to put a blueprinted s63 into my 335i. Problem is controlling the injectors… they’re the same as n54 injectors so once I figure a standalone for my engine’s DI, I can basically just throw the damn thing in and rip it
N54 gang! ✊🏽
Great video. I appreciate the thoughts on this engine and the engineering. It is frustrating to know things are built as disposable for these prices. Makes me appreciate Porsche and Japanese Engineering a whole lot more. Keep up the good work.
lol porsche.... had my experience with porsche....bore scoring. id take a spun bearing before i take a block that eats itself apart.
Porsche is definitely not any better, you just don’t hear as much about the horror stories.
🤡
Great video! I just changed all injectors on my f10 m5 2 months ago they did cost 550€.
Never thought an s85 would look low maint....glad I have a warenty on my used x5 50i. It is a tu but still a lot to brake
I appreciate the content. I think E60 m5 has the best powertrain in any non-supercars. I really love the responsiveness and the sound, vibration, even the shock when changing gear flatout. It is really hard to find a car that u feel your foot is linked to the throttle these days, almost all cars have a built in "throttle lag(ger)"in the ecu.
Awesome review!Now I feel sorry that few years ago didn't buy a 2008 BMW E60 M5 manual with 56000 miles on it😁
Great vide 👍🏻 correction on fuel injector Genuine BMW for one single injector is $438
You’re the best Nathan
I leased a 2018 M550i for 3-years. Great car that you DO NOT want to own out of warranty. Halfway into my lease it was in the shop for a month with a strange intake leak. BMW's twin turbo V8 is still as sketchy as can be.
Good video Nate
What an epic and honest roast! If this isn't icing on the cake how big of a disaster an S63 car is to own idk what is.
I appreciate the straight talk! I've also gained new respect for the S85 motor from watching your series here. I never was a fan of the E60 styling, but man, compared to modern BMWs they're actually alright. Looking forward to keeping up with the progress on your S85 build!
Modern bmws look completely better
You cannot make a good looking car after the pedestrian safety regulations in the mid 2000's forced the hood and belt line of cars to be clown car high. That's why Bengal developed "flame surfacing" to compensate and distract from the hideous shape cars are forced to be now. Design by committee only makes it worse. There will never be a good looking sedan/coupe/sports car ever again. Car design is dead. Hope you like looking at the new toyota supra and crossover clowncars. @@pesos8101
Just sold my 1-series with N47 engine at 100k miles because of the same type of thing. Nowhere near as big bucks to sort out as these S85/S63 engines but bad enough for me. Sticking to my M52TU engined car of the 90's which still needs preventative maintenance but I've already done most of it so it should see me right as I treat it like an old lady now, which she is. An eye-opener of a video Nathan to those who are naive. There's a reason why these high priced BMWs depreciate quickly and a specialist once said to me that if you buy a car that was big bucks new, then it's gonna cost big bucks to keep on the road. I now ride my bicycle to work!
Well done 👏
I do agree with this. However……. the N63 is a completely different argument. I will say that a N63 is cheaper overall no matter the scenario compared to the S85. Not starting any argument, I just have the proof to back it up. The N63 has tons of little gems of deals hidden all over because of its past. The key is to find them and take advantage of them and do your research. Brand NEW Garrett OEM matching turbos and lines/gaskets is $1800 out the door. No rebuilding no cores. A completely new long block with all components from Germany is currently $4025. It was $3025. Not a reman. Fuel injectors from FCP EURO lifetime warranty are $150 each Remanufactured. If they are bad keep swapping them out for life. No need for rod bearing becuase at 150,000 you can buy a new one for a swap. Bosch OEM HPFPs are $200. Just my 2 cents because I really am happy with my N63 and believe me I could not afford an expensive S63 at all. Nathan is right compared to the S85 for sure. I just would love to see some N63 content some day
I need ur advice on my x5m its smoking
@@princeoreratile120 if it’s smoking most likely is your valve steam seals are shocked try using liqui moly motor oil saver it softens up your seals to allow oil to pass through we have shitty valve steam seals in a shitty location which is why they shock and cause us to burn excess oil
Great review, I bought my X6 twin turbo new, NZ$200,000 2010 sold at 87,000km when I learnt about the engine I had many sleepless nights what a nightmare, I traded it for a Ute, got $19,000 as a trade in no regrets, when I learnt that the engine runs too hot 🥵 and cooks the electrical wires in the V I took the engine cover off to allow better air flow.
Absolute shame that these engines are produced and are so complicated, this shouldn’t be allowed or they should guarantee the engine for 500 thousand miles.
I love your channel thanks for taking the time to inform the public.
it's 555 hp modern engine, if you want something more reliable buy Toyota they still manufacturing same engines for 30 years
Planned obsolescence
Would love to know which M5 engine of all is your favorite, from E28 to F90
You should do a video of you going to a dealer and showing what crazy rates they charge and what they try to screw you on. Also video of you shopping their used lot would be hilarious.
I have a question?
I you had a 2012 BMW 750Xi N63 engine. If you had the choice of a full engine swap. What engine would you swap it out for?
After watching your videos I can sympathized everything you say. My 2013 BMW X6 50.i was a nightmare. N63 was nothing but an endless money pit then you have to worry when driving something else is about to fail. I went back to my pragmatic thinking. My wife and I bought a new Honda and Toyota with 10yr/120,000 miles warranty. Life is really great when I don't have to think about mechanics, car repairs, reliability and going to repair shops to get estimate. BMW and Mercedes are great cars. The problem is when you leave manufacture warranty they will start kicking you in the nuts and bank account.
try cleaning your coil packs with CRC electrical cleaner, I troubleshooted for years on air leak on my M54, turned out cleaning the plug, connector, pull apart and clean and clean spring and never runs better on original Bremi coils with 261,000 miles.
My M54 is still running strong I brought it new in April 2002 with 400 miles on it now it has 324,000 miles always keep a code reader in the glove box and don't let no one else work on your M54 only if you can't do the work yourself
ALMOST got a 3 year old with the s63. The Dealer had and X5 with it and the exact same one with an N55, priced within a thousand of each other. Gas had jumped up and I was worried about mileage so I got the N55. Still expensive to service but not nearly as much. Lucked out.
can you do rod bearings in a S63 with just taking the front subframe off, and going through the oil pan?
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ 5 star content
Very informative. I will definitely stick with n62 engine and not worry about these issues.
Thank you
At what mileage should you do the rod bearings in the s63?
Hi, so I have a 2021 M8 competition which got picked up a few days ago due to a really bad knocking noise (24k miles) is this the S63 engine or not ? What do you think the problem will be, supposedly something has snapped inside and now I'm waiting for a new engine getting shipped from Germany 🤦🏼.
This is was these German cars are worthless after 100k if there survive that .... great channel love the content
New subscriber here. Do you sell any of these you work on?
My guy just went thru and named every possible issue with an s63 engine… it’s either they are super reliable or they weren’t taken care of and they are ticking time bombs. If you take care of the basics; all consumables, vanos, rod bearings and oil changes every 5k miles, then you should be all set. This engine is a proven performer and a lot of true BMW enthusiasts run these with major power. Yes, it’s an expensive vehicle to maintain but you’re talking about a v8 twin turbo from a luxury SUV, it’s no doubt it’s going to cost a pretty penny 😅 if you’re complaining about this vehicles expenses, you’re into the wrong car!
might be biased as an s85 owner but love this comparison
this is exactly what i think abt the s63 lmfao
personally i hate all the 2011-2020 cars - some of the Gxx cars seem cool tho, less *bunch of boxes ticked* more *wholistically-designed vehicle*
Do you have a video like this on the 2009-2013 I think 3.5 in x6?
Add one more S63 2012 X5M engine failures to the list. Engine seized at 108k miles. All oil changes and maintenance done regularly. Dealer notified BMW US rep and they wash their hands of it and offered no help. Last BMW I ever buy.
How often was the oil changed? And was it warmed up properly before hard use (3k+ rpm)?
I changed oil at 7k mi factory recommended synthetic. Always warmed up before driving. I found these engines blow their rod bearings too late. If I would have known I would have replaced them for around $2k.
What about the S63 used for the F90 M5 Competition? Is it good?
Thanks
Do you know the exact year they improved the s63tu rod bearing’s?
The lurking problem with S85 and S65 are the main bearings. Seeing more and more of those on the forums over time. Still, wouldn’t touch S63 with a 10 ft pole.
s63 is for rich ppl who buy em new then get rid of them at 100k miles, alot of the items you stated didnt have to be replaced all at once thats only if ur gonna keep the car forever most ppl dont, each bosch injector is 100 bux turbos
If you can work on your car and you got well maintained s63 it will last another 100k miles
I brought this car in july for 30k. Put about 20 thousand miles on it and the shit threw a rod. Now it need a engine. Listen to this man he know exactly what he talking about
How many miles did you have on it before the issue?
Not sure I understand the premise of the discussion - yes, twin turbo engine is more complicated, hence replacing parts will cost more than on NA engine, is anyone surprised?
Sure turbo's will not fail on S85 as there are none and the injectors are just a bit cheaper compared to S63TU piezo injectors.
The only advantage I see in the S85 is its sound due to being NA V10 - that's about it. The S63TU is better in all other aspects.
If they go boom, neither is cheap, so whoever is buying must have few spare thousands in the pocket.
What I'm surprised by is that newest M5 is still using the S63TU - basically the same motor as 11years old F10 M5, only with couple miscellaneous parts upgraded. If you look into it that way, I think the F10 M5 are pretty much a steal compared to F90
I have 214300KM on my 2006 M5 runs fine you must never run cold will kill the motor.
When I see this video it makes me damn proud I have a m54 engine 😂😂
I will never sell my E46. m54 FOREVER!
@@lp2565 The last good engine they ever made.
@@eastpantherbenz B58... S58... S55... N55... N52...
does not BMW have a class action lawsuit on these motors S63,N63. They told me $3700 and $2400 core. I believe the lawsuit is only in the US.
I dropped out of the industry because of stupid SUV's like this. CRUSH THEM.
I sold my 08 manual M5 at 80k miles bcuz I was worried about rod bearings and bought a 2016 X5M 4 just to find out they suffer from the same issue 🤦🏻♂️ I think it’s time for a g80
There is no replacement for displacement
Hi anyone get a part number for ARP rod bearings and bolts? For S63 (BMW X5M 2012) cheers
Jeeez lol you need an engine shop for your shop
When I first saw an X-5m I really liked it.. And still-do. The look is pretty cool in my-own opinion, but once I researched what Nathan went over.. NO Question Id never accept one even for free.. I really enjoy tinkering with my BMW. The X.. is for the "daddys got money" crowd. Nope.
Yeah... these cars should only be enjoyed by lease...
You're not wrong but it's missing the whole ingenuity of these engines. The hose are unnecessary, the cpu placement is stupid on all the other chassis, and the N63 level power is not worth the level of maintenance. But by the time you tune or fix any of the little nagging problems (cat locations, heat management, brittle plastics, hoses everywhere) . It's hard to beat the performance
First of all, there is only 1 oil cooler, i think you were referring to the charger coolers which are different lol Also the hoses can be flushed buddy 😂.
Unfortunately BMW has become like Range Rover. They make really nice pretty vehicles but definitely NOT something I would own outside of the factory warranty. Despite being able to take the S63 and do some fueling mods, turbo upgrades, down pipes, intake, and tune and make some extremely impressive power figures you wouldn't really want to have one where you are 100% responsible for the repairs. But a 2009-2010 5 series wagon to swap in a manual transmission, S85 with it's issues addressed and upgraded, suspension, brakes, and wheels would be awesome and much much better if it is possible upgrade the severely outdated tech. The Techno Violet Metallic E36 M3 convertible I had will be the last BMW I own for a very long time unless they address all the issues.
X5m 2011
I've always told people that the S85 is more reliable and cheaper to keep going but they all say the TT V8 is better and more reliable which isn't the case. N63/S63 has turbo issues, fuel injectors, rod bearings and timing chain issues
And don't forget the oil consumption issues with the valve stem seals
True
s63 doesn't have any issues with rod bearings unless you use wrong oil. Usually people put s85 oil 10w60 to s63 which is too thick for s63.
@@anthonyk s63 doesn't have issues with valve step seals as n63 does
@@alexanderkharevich3936 that's nice to know just one less thing on a big list of many issues though
Not sure if you mentioned ten fuel injectors for the S85.
He did. $100 a piece IIRC.
@@janreznak881 He mentioned coil packs for 100 apiece.
Nathan, do you have any example of reliable 555 hp stock turbocharged engine which is less complex than s63 and much reliable than it?
Mercedes m157 is about as good as it gets, but still have to refresh the coolant system but no rod bearing issues
@@NathansBMWWorkshop 5.5 L vs 4.4 L with same power is not fair comparison. AMG GLE63 S has 16 combined city/highway MPG vs X5M E70 21 combined mpg. So S63 is by ~30% more effective than m157.
@@jalopy2472 I don’t care about fuel cost. Just don’t agree that it’s a good comparison
@@jalopy2472 you have to spend 20k in case if you change oil every 15k miles instead of every 3k miles. Or use wrong oil. Many people put too thick oil which is good for S54, S85, etc. those engines need 10w60 but s63 is different and needs 0w30…5w40 oil. This causes rod bearing failure. Replacing cooling system costs $2-3k maximum if you can replace it yourself. New turbochargers plus all pipes and gaskets is another $3k. So to renew s63 after it’s 100k miles you have to spend just $4-6k.
@@jalopy2472 in my opinion basically Nathan got that x5m for cheap expecting to make some money by doing quick easy fixes but hasn’t luck and wasted his money, so he is angry that’s why he hates s63. I got 100k miles s63 in perfect condition and in my opinion it’s a great engine.
Im in s63 life, including my f10 m5, you make alot of valid points but your numbers are exaggerated, very exaggerated.
So in other words ppi really only gonna so much if any issues
I know why they are having problems. We used to get pre filled bearings from manufacturing and they were actually not filled all the way that they should have. The manufacturer cheated our company by saving on oil costs and the thought that we would buy more in the future from them.
U work at bmw?
No one would just replace the turbos and injectors on the S63 engine if there is no problem with them. Your build cost analysis is way too high.
LS swap time !
🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
This is what nightmares are made of..
So is this generation mx5/6 a hard stay the fuck away?
Long story short never buy an s63.
The s63 cost way more to repair hands down
There is a reason why they are 20 k ........Just look at like this.... I'm getting a 40k car for half price and you'll be golden
they are worth over 30k in canada just saying
Just LSx it already and be done with it.., you know you want tooooo
Edit: Cant beat the sound of a DOHC. Are these really bad designs or do they simply suffer from Heavy Foot Syndrome and no proper maintenance?
20 years of shitty V8s should tell you to stay the hell away from any V8 engined BMW 😂
S63 motor block is not available from bmw anymore
Whole engine is 80k au
Wise men will listen and harken to the words of the wise. Only a fool would hear and see trouble and head straight to it anyway. 😳
Hopefully A BMW engineer will somehow run across this video. This man is telling you all the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
Shame on those old BMW and Mercedes engineers for building crap like that! And not there are countless of these beautiful BMW and Mercedes cars out there with their unfixable (waay too costly and not worth repairing) time bomb V8 and V10 engines! 😳
I heard the last few yrs they have improved them. That remains to be verified. I really want to purchase an X5 XDrive 40i for my wife (B58 straight six), and that engine seems to be the best I6 still available out there!
I am still watching very closely though..
Another reason I will NEVER own another BMW.
It is funny. I own a e60 m5. And everybody 1st words are about the problems. And with an f10 m5 everybody just accepts it.😂😂
I think you're too subjective in your opinions. The modern engines are more complex then the old ones you fan of and require more thorough maintenance and if it done properly it last long. Replacing cooling hoses every 10 years is not that bad.
B M W = Buy More Warranty
Mine is still running 199k on it
"Mine" what?
@@Edison73100 yes 199k almost 200k on original motor oil changes every 3k redline 5w40
Come join x5m e70 e71 owners group on Facebook
@@OzzyTheFerret129 Cool
199k miles or kilometres?
I love my 2008 E60 M5 6MT w 60k miles on her.
not for long
I have on 07 with 102 and it makes me contemplate suicide more and more every day
@@BmwMe-uh9sy ROFL!!! That's FU to say but real.
@@EagleEyes11497 It will be okay, put some $$ aside.
@@EagleEyes11497 "If you don't succeed once, ...". But seriously, I've heard that LCI has improved many issues with the E60 M5. Maybe I've been lucky. Maybe I take good care of it knowing what a time bomb this car could be. Hang in there.
They better go to all electric so they don't keep making shit like this.
Get a B58 problems solved😅
No thanks... I'll keep my 2000 E39 528i.
I email you..I would like to get my car fix buy you
I'll stick with my slow poor mans m54. :)
No Fkn way would I buy that. Not even for $1. Just makes your life complicated.
FIRST!!
Fear mongering master ! Hoses ? LOL
This channel is a joke. No car is maintenance free, Half the people commenting can't afford the maintenance on a Honda Accord yet alone a S63 engine in a BMW M car.