I've been riding Harleys for the past 15 of my 30 years of riding. The reason why I will never buy another new one it's because Harley leaves too many factory flaws on the shoulders of its customers. A premium motorcycle should not be designed with this much penny-pinching in the engine. I'm not talkin about technology I'm just talking about build quality. On top of that Harley has the nerve to increase their prices to what they are now. No thanks Harley-Davidson. I've already worked out all of your penny pinching bugs from my motorcycle and I'm not falling for that again. Even if I were into the new bikes I don't know how Harley expects to sell more bikes by making them less accessible due to price, more complicated, and more expensive to maintain because they are non user-serviceable. You can keep that junk.
This bugs me. I was looking at a newer fat bob and the grips and levers are the same as my 2009 XR1200... which are the same as my old 1998 road king..... They claim premium motorcycle but use bargain bin parts because you're just going to customize it anyways. Well if I have to buy premium parts for the premium bike then try lowering the price maybe? Triumphs cost half as much and the fit and finish on them is incredible.
yup- Cam tensioners disintegrating, compensators loosening, cases leaking & cracking, main bearings failing before 14K, recalls for stupid things like cable routing, etc. To make matters worse- Harley doesn't acknowledge these things as design flaws - instead; they market an 'upgrade kit' via the ScreaminEagle line. My 2006 Nightrain is my LAST Harley.
@@lynskyrd don't plan on getting rid of mine but I definitely don't plan on ever buying a new one. If I add another Harley to the garage it will probably be a carburated EVO Sportster. That's the only Harley of I've ever owned that was built right straight out of the box. I never had to do anything to my sporty except normal preventative maintenance and wear items like tires. I wish Harley just made a bigger version of that quad cam gear drive engine for the big bikes.
@@jamessouthworth1699 you're right about the EVO Sportster. I currently own 3 Harleys; 2 EVOs and my 2006 Nightrain. They all run GREAT... I do all my own work-even do my own tires. These guys that put money IN their bike than miles ON their bike ???? When is enough going to be enough? When are the boys and girls gonna wake up? Ride safe.
Peter Puller 's top secret game plan is to make sure Harley-Davidson sales will continue to decline at a faster rate than if he kept his mouth shut and mind his own business and stop telling total lies about things he has no information or playing dumb or just plain stupid and likes to see an American company bite the desk along with the rest of them so everything will be made in China as it is from Walmart and.. how many utensils and housewares around your home do you have that are made in the United States and if you shop at Walmart everything you walk out of there with in your hand is made in China Harley-Davidson doesn't have anything to do with what Walmart supports. And if you're suggesting that Harley-Davidson parts are made in China increasing the number of parts yours claiming that they have told China to build more light bulbs cuz that's the only God damn thing they buy from China like everybody else does cuz that's the only f****** place in the world where you can get LEDs to turn on the lights so they don't burn out but as far as the rest of what's going on was going on in China has all been shut down which tells me in the world that you're a stupid mother f****** c********** son of a b**** and now they know good worthless c********** f****** bastard that needs to eat s*** and die and be done with and get stupid son of a b****** like you out of my goddamn country and go live over there and f****** China where you belong you son of a bitching bastard get the f*** out of my God damn country you mother f****** a****** son of a b**** f*** you eat s*** and f****** die you lying c*********** son of a b****
@@donniebaker5984 donnie baker cant handle the truth. Next time you go to the HD dealership. Note how much of the merchandise is not made in USA. Its easy. If it does not say made in America . Its not. HD wants $500 for a leather jacket made in Pakistan. You can get the same jacket new from Ebay made in Pakistan for $125.
Impressive rant, @@donniebaker5984, but Peter is not the only one who is disappointed with Harley. I think Harley should always have a simple, affordable, underpowered, durable, dependable, bare bones chopper available for the masses.
@@peterpuller8569 Your right on about that. It pisses me off. If Harley customers will just not buy all their merchandise and everyone would voice the reasons to Corporate maybe they will be forced to start producing clothes etc back in USA
What attracted me to Harley was simplicity and a riding experience that no one else could reproduce. Today's riders and consumers want colors, chrome, electronics, and bragging rights. The other thing I notice is there are fewer young riders than in the past. When I was a kid almost everyone one of us rode motorcycles. I started riding when I was seven years old and have loved anything with an engine since. Today I'm almost 62 and still ride 15,000 miles plus a year (back roads not highways). Harley needs basic models like the Electra glide standard (for less $$$) to get people on two wheels and off of four.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I bought a brand new 2018 lowrider for $15k. Hands down the best deal for a big twin at the time. You get the new soft tail suspension and a 107" motor. Granted it has no bells and whistles. But you can throw saddlebags and a windshield and basically have a touring bike for $10k cheaper than a street glide. Unfortunately as you said everyone is looking for all the gadgets and upgrades, sound system, nav, blue tooth, heated grips etc... In my opinion if that's what you need in a bike, you missed the mark on motorcycling. And to that point I've got 30k miles on that bike already.
@@Stivale44 I own a 2013 Ultra Limited (Purchased New) with almost 140,000 and have never listened to the radio. I two-up ride with my wife and bags full of her photography equipment. So I need all the storage but why a radio?
I am a former Harley owner and remain fond of the brand. But I’m a business man who has been riding for over 50 years and am a believer in the necessity to keep pace with present engineering technology. A once famous car brand, Packard, made the same mistake Harley may be making: selling too many old design products while falling behind the competition. One new engine isn’t enough to reverse H-D’s downward trend of slipping sales and rising prices. I hope Harley has a better 2022.
I was never wanting nor desiring a new Harley. I wanted something I could rebuild-back to stock. I had always been a Springer fan, and so sought out in the used markey. Eventually I found one, affordable, and not that modified. It needed some work, and eventually the motor will need rebuilt, which I will do with the original if it is in the condition to be such. Has 80,000 on it now, and it still runs strong. There’s nothing like picking up an older Harley and breathing into it new life, preserving the greatness of what it was.
I’ve owned 13 H-D’s since1979 . The oldest a 53 pan head , two iron Sportsters from the mid 70’s , 6 shovel heads , 3 evo’s , and now a 2018 FXLR Low Rider . I’ve always had a love/hate relationship with the “ motor company “ because they never seem to listen to their customers ! I’ve tested , for example , the new Triumph Bonneville 1200 cc . The suspension , brakes , and clutch are all far superior to my new Low Rider . I really like my new H-D , but they continue to struggle with engineering issues ! Why add a nifty factory installed oil cooler ( finally ! ) and block the front cylinder cooling fins - for example ? Then have a decent suspension , that is adjustable , only to force the rider to remove the seat , and assemble a half assed two - piece spanner wrench to dial it up or down when wanting to allow a passenger to go for a ride ! Then I requested a large windshield and a tall sissy bar for said passenger - NOT AVAILABLE ! Then I had to spring $500.00 for another seat to take a passenger , as the POS “ Gunfighter “ style seat isn’t comfortable for anyone over 10 years old , and it doesn’t even come with heating elements for winter riding ! The handlebar grips HAD to be replaced , as riding for over 30 minutes caused my hands to fall asleep ! As I first stated ; nice overall motorcycle . I am now 61 years old , and I’m afraid that this company could actually go by the way Cushman Scooters did ; outdated and the customer base got “ older “ and eventually no longer purchasing their products with no interest with future generations of riders … Sad testimony , of another American icon …
I went to a Harley dealership last Summer. They wanted $18K for a Sportster 883. I told them that was ludacris. They then told me $12K as I was walking out the door. Taking advantage of customers isn't a way to increase sales. I bought a Yamaha instead of a Harley.
There’s Harley-Davidson, and then there’s everything else. One day you’ll own a Harley-Davidson…until then, you’re always going to be convincing yourself that you like your Yamaha. I know people like that, that now own Harley-Davidsons ✌️😎
That is what sells here, even more so with the new B.196 EU rules, allowing theise to be ridden without a motorcycle endorsement on the car driving license.
The Livewire failed because it was 30 grand, you could get a Zero or Engencia for 20 grand and they had everything the Livewire had except the price and HD logo. Now they have priced it right, but they recognize that the HD name carries too much baggage to be cool to younger riders. This is going to be a long road back to true profitability for HD.
I bought my first Harley this year as an alternative to my usual Japanese made machines. I wound up buying a 2021 road glide since my wife actually enjoys motorcycle road trips. In the time between trips I rode the thing every chance I got back and forth to work and all around town. As a daily rider I would compare the road glide to watching really expensive paint dry. At 28 years old it just didn't excite me but that doesn't mean I won't ever return to Harley. I understand the appeal now and I respect the people who love them, and not just because we are supposed to respect our elders. The fit and finish was amazing and it felt like a classy well built machine. It didn't burn a drop of oil, the transmission and clutch were silky smooth, and the torque was fairly decent. It's comfortable, very comfortable and was everything I needed but only just. When the time comes, if I manage to dodge all the cagers, I would seriously consider Harley once more. If they want to make a naked bike with the revolution engine, cough cough Bronx, I might end up on one before I get my AARP card.
From a Wall Street perspective HD's strategy is right on target - high demand for limited supply, product pricing power, cost cutting and rationalizing operations, and very loyal brand base. As an investor what's not to like. As a Harley owner, Harley is nothing but a blood sucking leach with little regard for the health of the sport. Sounds like the typical American business model to me.
As a current owner of 3 models i think they are awesome, yeah you pay more but what premium brand doesnt charge more, i have never had a bad experience at any HD dealership and their dealer network is awesome and that alone is worth the uncharge. Indian charges the same for their bikes and their dealer service and dealer network is crap
It seems to me that Harley specializes in selling very expensive toys to very wealthy buyers. At some point in time that well will dry up, and probably is getting there now. Other manufacturers may sell expensive toys as well, but , they also offer reasonably priced bikes to global markets that require them for transportation. At the end of the day the much higher volume but lower profit bikes create a profitable bottom line for the company. Harley, as you mentioned, has ignored that part of the market. I went into the local Harley shop one day as I wanted to look at rain gear. The prices were insane, of course, as you are paying for the Harley logo. And I might ad, I did not feel particularly welcome in the showroom. It seemed you needed to be in the Club. The price of admission to that club is a Harley. This was my experience and may not reflect what other showrooms are like.
Agreed. In my city, the HD dealer is also the only game in town for Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, BMW, etc. The other dealer sells Suzuki, Husqvarna, and Indian and avoids selling pre-owned bikes. I walked into the HD dealership about a year ago, and the salesman was put off by the fact that I only wanted to look at Japanese models. While sitting on a Honda Rebel, I got tired of his pitching HD bikes and left. When a customer service rep from the dealership called me the next day to survey my experience, I didn't hold back. I haven't been back since.
I heard many others say the same .. I was in a Harley / Triumph Dealer.. Windy City International .. They ignored the HD Big Wigs and sold Triumphs in the same building.. I was going to demo a live wire but it was raining a few drops and they don't allow demos when it's misting out .. I rented a bike for two days through Twisted Road.. A Triumph Tiger 1200 .. I needed rain gear .. Triumph rain suit was 40% off and I still got robbed because it was garbage loose legs and wrists flapping in the wind.. Only rain coat I ever saw that didn't have velcro straps to keep the rain out ..
Aprilia, Indian, Moto Guzzi, MV Agusta, Norton, Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus, Maserati, McLaren, Porsche, Rolls-Royce, Apple, Microsoft, Pfizer, Purdey Guns, Holland and Holland, Diamond Traders, Gold Dealers, Yacht Builders, Truffle Growers, Caviar Farmers may disagree with some of that reasonably priced toys to a global market strategy.
@@DifferentSpokesTV there's a surprising comment coming from you ? Harleys are too expensive, too big, the new Sportster sucks, the pan American is too late, Harley is going bankrupt - my God just stop
i was in the new motorcycle market for the last year or so, and i looked at a lot of bikes. my problem is that i like them all, so it was really tough to make a decision. i ultimately ruled harley-davidson out. even though i like the styling of their line, the performance i wanted wasn't really there and the prices are eye-popping.
I bought a Sport Glide in 2019 and have 40 thousand kilometers on it. It has been a versatile platform and fulfills all my needs. It is a trouble free joy to ride. The fact that it will be discontinued means it will become rare. That's fine with me. I love it.
Almost got the Sport Glide for my Alaska trip but the single front disk is hardly sporting and the odd wheel sizes didn't fit my favorite Sport Touring tires... it rode nice and cruise a welcome addition but $18k+ it just missed the mark.
I’m at 21k miles on my Sport Glide also zero issues. Bought it for 17,000 out the door. Didn’t like the single front disk but with ABS it actually works quite well. Bike makes 116 WHP and I somewhat frequently hit triple digit speeds so I probably have been harder on the brakes than the average Sport Glide rider. Anyway it’s solid no brake compliant. Compare to top sport bike brakes of course not.
Well as it goes, I'm not "wealthy" as that term might be generally understood, but after considering the BMW bikes, I ultimately decided to buy the Street Glide. Now, don't get me wrong. I made the right decision, but in my feedback with HD (and, I'm a first time HD owner), I suggested that maybe - just maybe - they should try being a little more generous with their intended audience when it comes to technology, and they just might pick off a few more buyers. You see, in deciding to purchase my Street Glide - oh...Street Glide Special, I had to give up a Japanese Whaleboat size of various technologies that you can find on many other bikes at HD's price point, AND LOWER. Consider this: I have no RDRS, no heated grips, no two-tone paint scheme, no lean or road modes, no this or that. In fact, I don't even have tire pressure monitoring (TPMS). So I told Harley to forgive me for staring at my Street Glide Special every now and then wondering just what might be so special about this bike except for the blacked out color. Having never owned a HD before I will say this. It's outrageously comfortable, easy to board, easy to ride, sounds great, feels great, looks great, moves plenty fast, and I can honestly say there is nothing really like owning, and riding this bike. I get a great many complements from folks while I'm pumping at Chevron. Weirdly or not, I feel perfectly contented.
Except that calling something inferior is subjective. For the heavyweight cruiser market in the US, A lot of riders, like me, owned several other brands their whole life then switch to Harley and never went back. Because they are inferior? Sure an Indian will blow it off the starting line, or a Honda will have less maintenance issues. But Harley's genius is styling, customization, and dealer network. That's why there are two kinds of people in the world: Haters who secretly want one, and the converts.
@@jerrybrown66 really? "haters that wish they owned one"? that's what Harley people tell themselves to justify their poor choices. I will give them credit, selling a 20,000 dollar vehicle that absolutely requires at least another 6 to 10 thousand in "customizing" just to make it function properly is absolute genius in brainwashing.
A factory custom hardtail chopper would be the best thing Harley could do right now. They wouldn't be able to keep them stocked because of what the demand would be for them. It would have to come with a remake on the panhead or shovelhead engine though. I know I would trade in my Roadglide for one.
I have no true statistics but just a small sample. I do have a 21 RKS but I have bought and refurbished 3 Twin Cams. After you do your own work they are great bikes for a fraction of the cost of a new one. To make my point…I agree that a raw hard tail chopper would be a huge hit.
Simply too expensive. When you can buy a 650 for 7-8k that will blow most HDs out of the water, its just hard to justify. Most of the big ones cost 20-30k now, its more than a good portion of cars you can buy, but you get so much less. If they'd get the pricing right, they'd sell.
99% of Harley buyers are middle aged and elderly professionals who, with the continued roll-out of the needle thing will have passed away within the next 12-18 months.
I think the issue with Harley is price, not on the machines but through financing. When considering a sportster in 2020 to rebuild credit (I payed off all my debt before returning to college when I left the army) and get back on the road, the new 8,500 bike was through interest 23,000 at pay off in five years. My used scout was 9,000 and after interest and will cost 12,500 when paid off in the same five years.
The problem is the sales model. Crazy fees, double dipping and lots of points added to loans. My advice is third party financing. The terms are better.
Never finance through a dealer. Stretch the loan for as long as possible for the lowest payments. Make sure you have a "no penalty for early payoff" in the loan and never make a regular payment. Everything over your regular payment goes to principle and you'll pay your loan off quicker while saving money in the process.
@@white_devil73 I wouldn’t stretch it. 48-60 months. Get the lowest rate, but yeah. Know your credit score too. Here are some questions for the F&I thief: How does the manufacturer’s rates compare to your lenders? Does the bank have a pre-payment penalty? Which Credit Bureaus were pulled? Will you give me the risk based finance notice for all the bureaus that you pulled? What term gets me the best rate? Ask the next questions after they reveal the interest rate you qualify for: How Many Banks Gave Full Approval? Which Bank are you writing the contract with? Why did you choose X Bank? Did another bank approve me for a lower interest rate?
@@my.motorrad I stretched mine for 60 months but will have it paid in full in just under 48. Harley would only go to 7% apr. All three of my scores were over 800. The dealer actually turned me onto a local credit union and got me 3.75% apr which was their lowest rate. That was lower than anyone else by far because every lender here has higher rates for bikes. I don't have an early payoff fee and I always pay extra on my loan. My regular payment is $367 and I always pay $400-$500/ month. Everything over the regular amount applies directly to the principle. I started the loan last May and I've already shaved 11 months off of my term. The good thing about having 800-plus credit scores was that they didn't ask questions. They just wanted me to sign. But I agree with you if someone has average credit.
It always seems that people want Harley to be a different motorcycle company. Harley is what it is and if you don't like it there are other companies willing to sell to you. Personally, I love my Harleys, especially the Low Rider S I just got. It's a great motorcycle and well worth the price I paid.
@@Kris_P._Bey_Ken to each their own, i have 3 Harley's (2021 Street Glide, 2014 Dyne Wide Glide and 2009 Rocker C) all great bikes. People have their own taste and have the right to spend their money how they choose, I like Harley because of the readily available parts where i can customize my bikes to fit me no matter what i am looking for. The dealer network is awesome, i agree that some up grades at Harley is ridiculous but most motorcycle upgrades are. I wont go back to Indian because of shitty network which is also why i wont go to Triumph, Norton, Honda, Suzuki (i do like Yamaha cruisers and the Star series are great bikes AND DEALER SERVICE DOESNT MATTER BECAUSE THEY RUN FOR EVER)
@@snakebite6511 it breaks my heart that they dwindled down the Yamaha Star line to 2 bikes. They pulled out of the game way too early. I still say the Raider/Stryker is one of the prettiest bikes ever made. All they had to do to compete was add a 6th gear and they were golden.
Agree.. if you want something other then a Harley then go buy something different.. Harley's are sweet bikes and I wouldn't trade mine for anything lease
The problem with Harley Davidson is their philosophy of gouging their costumers. I've owned several over the last thirty years, my most recent (and last) purchase was Street Glide Special 2021, with the upgraded Infotainment system which to use to it's full potential you need to purchase the WHIM at another $300, which only came to light after the bike was bought. Sorry Harley I will not recommend your product to family (my son is about to purchase his first bike) or friends with the constant swindling of the buyer being the rule.
I am not some financial guru by any means. I bought a 2019 ultra limited for 32 grand. The goldwing that year was that much with the same trim and the BMW K1600GTL with similar set up is actually more expensive. Many people talk about harleys being over priced but for the type of bike I need the price with tax is all in the 32 to 35 thousand dollar bracket. Some of their lesser models are slightly over priced but not as wildly as people seem to think. The hotrod Harley FXDR 114 was 24 grand. The triumph rocket 3 r or gt is 23 grand the ducati diavel is 28 grand with no accessories. The bang for the buck deal in that category is the Yamaha vmax at 18 grand. That's even though the vmax is the baddest of the bunch. Usually the one that comes with the heavy weight crown as a standard option is the most expensive. Harley sales might be behind the rest of the motorcycle industry but the whole motorcycle industry is taking a hit because the new generation of young people just aren't into motorcycles. Lots of things will die with this new generation. They don't want classic cars,motorcycles, or antiquities. They want smart phones, computer games, free college degrees in liberal arts or political science. They also have no desire to work.
Not entirely true. The "younger" generation just aren't interested in 1200cc lumps that cost a small fortune and will be a nightmare to maintain (build quality of HD isn't what it used to be). That's why 350-450 supermotos, rebel 500s or anything in between are more popular. A younger person, just out of college, up to their eyeballs in debt isn't buying a 25 grand motorbike when they can get a rebel 500 for 1/5th the price, it doesn't eat fuel (which is also now expensive), it's cheaper to insure, modern tech and is overall a more enjoyable experience (face it, HD's aren't the gods of the bike world people would have you believe).
Love my Harley but this 5k over msrp for a new street glide is ridiculous and the used bike market is even worse. They are trying to piggy back off the car market.
I recently went to an HD showroom. I was looking around, and a friendly hipster bro in plaid and Vans started a conversation. A few minutes in, I inquired if they were getting a Pan America. His demeanor instantly changed, and this man, the SALESMAN, who's job it is to promote and sell the product said to me verbatim, "it's a piece of shit." Amazing.
Overpriced motorcycles just don't sell well in a weak economy. Plus, the well of people that Harley-Davidson has been pulling from for the last 100 years, is slowly drying up.
Hey man. You nailed it! Thats exactly what Harley should do. Im building an old school Harley chopper right now. Have done a few flat track/scrambler bikes and they sell in a day. Next to adventure bikes these are the most popular class of bike right now, in my opinion.The old school bare bones approach seems to never go out of style. 1.Sell it for less and sell more? 2. Sell it for more and sell less? I think #1 is a better approach for all involved. Why can't they see that? Do they think it would de- value what they have already sold? Man I dont get these guys, give the people what they want and are begging for.... PLEASE!!
Yep, it seems that other "premium" brands like Triumph get it. They offer the Tiger 1200 for a premium and the Trident 660 to get the newer rider in the door.
Decent priced naked bike with around 120 hp and able to take a turn quickly. I would like if they could build something to compete with the Yamaha FZ07 and Kawasaki Z900. I love the look of a Harley but hate the handling and stopping.
I was gonna buy a Pan America. I was ready to sign papers. They had already quoted me a price. It was a stretch, but I figured what the heck, just buy it. Then they tell me they've raised the price up $3,000. They lost a sale, I walked out.
Wow, I guess the demand is high enough for dealers to try to get away with this kind of stuff. It's short term gain at the cost of building long term relationships with customers.
1:36 the drop in Europe is due to the punitive counter tariffs on motorcycles. They're on the right path, but they need to make dramatic cuts to production and office overhead and cancel anything that's not selling. The company needs a total re-set.
HD have no A2 bikes. Start riding at age a minimum 24+ make riders already have other brand preference. The association with the US in a post-Trump is no benefit either. Look at Honda and their $1800 Navi. That bike makes new riders. Legal for B1.96 too, can be ridden on car driving license only.
@@Airpang100 The Honda Navi is going to bring in new riders. This old rider is moving from a BMW R1200RT and a Honda VFR to a Honda Monkey. Well I put in a deposit, who knows when I will actually get one!! The Monkeys are fun and popular.
It makes sense that sales are dropping when they are making fewer bikes. In the meantime the NADA value for my 2018 has increased to almost the MSRP in 2018. I was offered what I paid to trade it in, but there is nothing I currently want to trade it for.
I have owned Harleys for over 40 years bought brand new, they turn to rust as soon as they see a cloud in the sky, they make deaf in your right ear. I love them but in reality in the last 10 years I rarely ride any of my Harleys. When they produced bikes that could not run on normal high octane fuel in cold weather this was a point i began to stop enjoying going out on them. I used to be regular upgrading my bike every other year. But I can ride any Japanese, Italian bike and they are minimal maintenance and do the same job.
moto guzzi? but everything subjective. I think the last time i took either my Harleys out anywhere was over 10 years now. I like Harleys but i do see less of them around in Europe and Asia @Buddy
@Buddy I guess there is a balance years ago BMW were seen as too expensive for the common man. now they are everywhere but they still keep that exclusive feel. I would like Harley to go the VW micro bus route - make more a clear way of life call. and fill out the range with some smaller bikes. But get this 'brand' identity moved it can only be fat v twin. it's digging a rut. an whats a rut? a rut is a grave with the ends kicked in. Yes i agree we all like to be special i have got the only one, don't be surprised if you see me down a Harley shop buying a new one cause the brand does have that x factor. So what did BMW do that kept it special? well you probably know. when you buy one you are give a computer and you select what bits and accessories what colors etc you going have. much like you select your ingredients for a meal. Harley could go that route. then each harley probably one be unique.
@Buddy the whole tax thing between America and Europe is one massive bun fight. However if we just said money no object which manufacturer would you go with? Because when we go buy these toys really how much is on price ticket is not the deciding factor. Why do we know that because most bikes are bought on loans arranged by the Harley outlets. I would like Harley to sell Harley Davidson toy bikes for junior. I would like them with a certificate and unique number. I would like Harley to promote more their Holiday on Harley rental deal. I would like to buy my new Harley on menu selection option, where i choose, seat color, style, chrome or trims, wheels etc. that the bike is sold on a loan. that servicing is in the loan deal. that do a buy back and resell option. that they sell a range of bike different styles. different cc's. I partially want them to sell a vintage to small engine Harley like the first Harley in bicycle frame. I want them to go for the vintage small market exclusive designer coffee cup brigade with a bike thats got grandad stamped through its heart. I want Harley bigger better stronger.
There has to be a lot of pressure on some of their dealers. Most of these big, expensive dealerships were built back when a Harley was the hot ticket. Supply didn't meet demand and the popular models all went for over MSRP. They sold tons of accessories and $40 t-shirts, times were good. All that changed in 2008 and Harley has been trying to adjust ever since. I have 2 old Harleys myself and I can remember when they weren't a statement or a status symbol or jewelry for people with money. You owned one because you liked riding it. I hope they find their way.
Good suggestions but what Harley needs is new management. Any group that comes up with the electric bike you also mentioned has no idea what makes Harley Davidson the iconic company it has been and can be again.
@@TheAsheybabe89 if everything I said is false then Ashley please explain why sales have been tanking now for years and expensive R&D projects like the Electric Bike get no traction what’s so ever?
The sales slide is even more damning when you realize they claim they are selling all the Pan Americas they can build. I would prefer to have their equivalent to the BMW R1250RT with a true full fairing and with the innovative lowering suspension and belt drive
I finally reached a point in life where I am ready to purchase my first Harley. My taste ran more to classic styling. First the Deluxe went. Now my second choice the Soft tail Slim is going away this year. I don't want a highway cruiser that costs as much as a small car. Plus, I have no desire to take long road trips. Finding a Harley I like has become a moving target
The Livewire was overpriced by at least $7k (USD); they proved it by making its own brand, not making any changes to the bike, and dropping the price by that amount. HD wants Dyna money for the Sportster S, which is ridiculous. I’m sure the Bronx would have been a big seller, but we may never know. The PanAm was a great step in the right direction, and they priced it pretty well, however it’s five years too late. Most buyers are looking for a middle weight ADV bike, and Harley needs to build one like yesterday.
As someone who has owned both a Triumph and BMW ADV and now own the HD PA, I have to say one of my biggest gripes is with quality. This bike has the engine, but other parts of this bike are cheap and for the same money I could have gone with either the UK or German bike and gotten quality well ahead of this one. My unofficial estimate based on several forums is that 80-85% of PA owners are HD loyalist and that's fine, but they aren't selling to new markets with this bike and that could be the death of this bike.
The worst part is the that HD is also going towards ordering bikes more custom to your needs. I'm sure the overall prices will go up to. I'm looking to buy in 2022 so I hope it isn't as bad as all that. #ripslim
I don't know if HD would ever consider it, but personally I'd like to see a 500 or 750cc powered ADV bike. That segment really seems to be growing. If the put a 750cc engine into their current Pan America frame, I don't think it would be able to get out of its own way, though; so HD will have to design something new. Probably not going to happen, but you did ask what we'd like to see.
When WillieG turned the marketing over to his daughter the company began to fail - we own 2 older bikes from HD and stockpiled parts. HD is going to fail
Easy fix: focus on adventure bikes. The big ones (Super T and GSA) are heavy and powerful. That's right in Harley's wheel house. Then build classic cruisers with hot swapable batteries. Harley shops are ubiquitous. Take advantage of that and put swap out batteries for ebikes at those locations. Not charging stations, actual swap out battery packs.
I hate to say this, but the worst thing for Harley is happening... hyper-inflation. People aren't going to be able to heat their homes this winter, let alone purchase a luxury vehicle that's going to be 20-30% more than it was last year. They desperately need those 975-1250cc bikes, $12k or less. Ultra luxury limited runs of bikes that harken back to yesteryear isn't going to cut it, not by a long shot.
There are always those who can afford the premium stuff, but if Harley wants to start selling more bikes in the future they will have to sell some less pricey ones to younger customers.
@@DifferentSpokesTV 9% of the population have investable assets of one million of more. As a financial advisor, I would prefer to cater to people with one million or more but there is a bigger pool of people with 500k or more. Harley is focusing on 5% of the population that can afford their bikes. Porsche can afford that business model because they’re owned by Volkswagen and a car is more practical than a bike and less dangerous, so Porsche can get away with not selling cars below a certain amount. Harley will be sold one day and it will be back to the AMF days. It’ll be a good short term purchase. They’ve already spun off their electrical division and maybe preparing to be acquired by another company
One thing not mentioned is that many HD riders are retiring from riding and due to the pricing and even worse lack of Reliability they are going to have a hard time pulling in newer riders. All of the new bikes being introduced are simply WAY over PRICED. Sorry HD your new offerings often double the price of many of the competition.
I own two Harley-Davidson’s and I still don’t feel accepted or part of the “Club” when I visit the dealership. It seems that everything they make is at least a flash back to the past and is styled for my great grandfather. I’m almost 60 and the styles they make look old to me! I have no problem with a 70’s style, but anything older than that just looks OLD! And what is H-D ‘s fascination with forward controls? I’ve had my Harley-Davidson’s for almost 20 years, but if I have another motorcycle, it probably will not be a H-D.
Harley relied on old timers like me to continue buying their over priced under performing bikes for years. Buy a new Harley then you need stage 2 kit, after market exhaust, the list goes on. I have a BMW K1600B for several years and Harley can’t compete. It’s the best looking bike ever, vast amount of technology and I have left every Harley in the rear view. Harley beats it on noise and vibration though!!
I would be thrilled to see a revamped XR750, as well as a new, more traditionally styled Sportster 975. Either one might just be enough to finally get me to pull the trigger.
Narrow roads in Europe? That's a funny one, we actually fit trucks, buses and other vehicles larger than bikes on our streets and road's. However, we tend to dislike overpriced, overweight low quality chunks of iron. That might be one reason making HD not doing so well.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Very true, most bikers do anything to avoid highways. After all it's the turning that make all the fun, not the A to B part. But of course some people have different preferences. 🏍️
Yes, unfortunately in North America if you want to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time you'll have to spend some time droning on the highway. From where I live it's four days of hard riding just to get to the west coast (five in Canada)... and I'm not even on the east coast!
I constantly see videos saying HD is dying but I literally see more harleys on the road than ever. At least 8 out 10 are HDs every day. And they are newer bikes.
@Buddy lol I 100% highly doubt that. They are going to do what they did before. Sell less bikes for more money. People forget back in the mids 2000s u wer on a waiting list to get a new HD. They arent going anywhere
The motorcycle business is alive & well every where except Harley Davidson. According to a press release issued by BMW Motorrad on 8 July 2020, the motorcycle manufacturer achieved record sales - its "best ever sales result" - in June, selling 20,021 BMW motorcycles in the month, a 12% increase over June 2019 sales figures. This also represents nearly a 10% increase in sales over May 2020, showing BMW motorcycles to be enjoying an upward trend despite the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.
As a 'Murican, I root for the home team, but man- my spreadsheet doesn't lie. The cost of ownership of my Dyna greatly exceeds every other cycle I've owned. As so many people below stated- you have to 'finish' the bike yourself and it costs a fortune. I've had to rebuild fork seals, master cyclinders, and fix some plain evil lean-running conditions on my 'modern' bike way before I would have expected (
Concerning a Factory Hardtail Chopper. I thought that the Softail Nightrain had that look. With the Drag Bars and low profile, it sealed the deal for me. I ended up with the Softail Standard, still have it. Not sure but rigid frames may be outlawed in Canada, or at least in some provinces. I have one also. It is odd that the whole genre of 'chopper' style motorcycles, usually Harleys, was started by so called outlaw club members. Harley wanted nothing to do with them or the image. Today it is the image they want to sell. Club members today usually ride baggers with ape hangers and the rigid frame choppers are history.
Yeah, it is too bad. I wasn't aware that Hardtails are not allowed in Canada. Seems a silly rule. You could put springer seats on them and I can't imagine that the lack of a rear suspension affects the handling that much.
Sales fall Has a lot to do with there over pricing. Example in 2016 street glide special 22,000 today 34,000 with less on them. 2 CVO Paint is shit. Look at cvo custom paint just from 2014 to 2018 and now look. There's no effort put forth on them.
Over priced for what they are . I'm dumping my 2008 Softail Custom. The bike looks great runs very well but way to pricey and too heavy as well . And I owned 4 Harley's so I'm pretty well diversified in this subject. Can't get them to go but what is even worse you can't get them to STOP !!!!
If I’m going to drop a crazy amount of money on a bike, it’s going to be on a Ducati or BMW. Never in my life a H-D, although I really like the styling and looks of them. Their just not worth it. Besides there is a vast second hand market with lots of choice.
Right now the prices are ridiculous. They are wanting 18k for a used street bob. MSRP on a new one is $15k. They also try to get you to concentrate on the monthly payments instead of the total price. That just pisses me off. Until prices come down I don't see it getting any better.
What happens when investors are more concerned about profit than passion for the motorcycle... Wonder how many of those investors even ride.... I remember back when you could purchase jewelry at a dealership but not a bike... Not even one on the showroom floor.... Started the process to eliminate every independent shop that supported riders... Now we have Harley department stores.... Just try and get an old Shovel or Pan into one of these stores nowadays..... Rebuilding my 1973 Shovel now... frame up project.... But riding my 2020 Tri Glide till Shovel is completed. End of rant.... oh, and I'm not wealthy....
I’m so sick of waiting to see what Harley is going to do just to be disappointed because it’s yet another outrageously expensive motorcycle that I’m just not going to buy! Been waiting for this new 975 sportster but I’ve pumped so much $$ into my iron 883 that there’s no way I’m parting with it now! If they had dropped a bike last year with some modern tech and performance and priced it competitively, 10-13k I would have absolutely bought that bike! Not now though. I’m far too invested in my 883 to let her go now. Yeah, I’ll just keep my sporty, Harley can do whatever.
I'm not entirely sure they could legally sell a hardtail chopper, and it would probably make no sense to re-start manufacturing Evo engines, but they could make a M8 Softail chopper relatively easily. I doubt that they will attempt to make an affordable big twin though, besides the Softail Standard. I think the way forward is to make a unitized big twin that is cheaper to produce than the current setup of separate motor and transmission joined through a primary drive. They could probably save 10 - 15% on manufacturing costs right there. I love my '18 Softail Deluxe and I'm sure I'll keep it until I can no longer ride, but I doubt I'll buy another Harley. Indian seems to be the American motorcycle company that is looking forward with their designs. I'd rather support them to be honest. Harley is becoming a "rich boy's toy" and not a blue collar ride.
like most other manufactures Harley been effected by the crap going on in this world too. it's not just a Harley problems. Most dealers can't even keep new bikes on the show room floor because they can't get enough of them fast enough from the factory . Also I'm far from rich I just choose ride what I like best
they keep missing the mark, too over priced for what you get. getting rid of their best bikes, etc. I am a Harley rider for over 40 years and will never buy another one
Indian challenger is the same price as a Street Glide. BMW Gs1200 adventure is the same price as the Pan America. The premium brands are always more than the Japanese bikes. They always will be. They can't afford not to. Honda/yamaha make generators, dirtbikes, outboard motors etc they have money to play with. HD only makes bikes and apparel.
There was a severe shortage of bike supply the first half of the year. I was at an event at my dealer last night and they now seem to have plenty of bikes. Unfortunately it's winter in Philly so not many sales, but that's seasonal. They had a board posted with lots of appointments listed so they still seem to be moving bikes regardless. Prices are up also and none of the sales people that approached me talked great deals which would be the only reason to buy in December.
Over priced, over hyped and your grandpas motorcycle. Next wave is middle class sport touring bikes under 1,000 ccs. What’s in their pipeline to get part of the market?
They could build a small one based on the Bronx and a big one based on the Pan America. The challenge is getting them to market for a reasonable price.
@@DifferentSpokesTV that is a big part of their problem. Not many people can afford to drop 25 large on a bike these days. Well, they afford a payment not price of the bike.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Based on then color combinations and accessories they are introducing they are targeting certain demographic groups. Probably not a bad move considering it’s becoming a larger % of the US population.
Hardly..... Myself and ALOT of current HD riders wrote off HD as younger riders (slow, couches, boring, etc). These folks like myself wouldnt have wanted any HD in the beginning years (especially now with the great import rockets available). I hit the street on mcs in the late 80s on fast import sportbikes, stayed on em through the 90s, 00s, 10s and still have a fast import sportbike in the garage today (always will). I had always bagged on HDs when younger. I have had two well built HDs 17 Dyna LRS and 16 Streetglide (in addition to ADVs and sportbikes) since 2016. Folks that believe HD needs beginner bikes for riders to stay alive is a myth. My experience is a very large part of HD riders are import converts and are very much like myself. HDs will always be cool to those that get them. If you get them, you understand and nothing else is a HD. Theyre bought because of this. The bagger and softail line will always be popular and a seller. Even if HD did away with every other bike theyd be just fine for a long time, no doubt. HD could care less about low income buyers, thats not their ideals. Never has and never will be. They will always price to buyers as a premium, knowing both thats the folks they want and those are the folks buying HD upgrades. I dont fault their philosophy as most HD owners. Knocking HD because of affordability is a moot point. Makes about much sense as Honda owners knocking BMW, MB, etc for selling their way. Just looks like cheap blows and something HD laughs at. If you cant afford one now, you cant. Making it an HD issue, doesnt make HD look bad.
They keep saying that Harley is failing, but sales floors shows otherwise. Dealers can’t keep inventory on the floor. Walk into any Harley Dealership and most of what you will see are used bikes for sale. They keep saying the younger generation isn’t buying Harley’s and that current Harley owners are aging away. For the last 30 - 40 years that I can remember, Harley has never appealed to the younger crowd. When I was a young Marine tearing up the hills of Southern CA, I rode Ninja’s, GSXR’s, and Intercepter’s. But I eventually outgrew crotch rockets and wanted a Harley. I bought my first Harley on my 45th birthday and haven’t looked back. I have upgraded from a Softtail to bagger to CVO. I am now 59. If I was 24 years old again I may want a crotch rocket to go with a younger man’s lifestyle. Nostalgic air cooled Harley’s will always appeal to the 40 plus crowd. That’s the way its been and that’s the way it is currently.
Im 40, NOT a harley fan, in fact i find them boarderline offensive. That said I actually liked the Pan Am. I went to test ride it and it was broken, they refused to tell my why other than a part was needed. I ended up going to an event that had them doing demo rides and took the ride. Found out I did not like the bike. So many reasons. Chance failed in gaining new buyers.
Truth is im a sports bike guy but ended up buying the Multistrada V4S Big surprise right. BUT I did ride ALL the bikes in that class and brand aside it was the best for me.
I would attribute world wide sales decreases to other countries not experiencing the same glut of cash that the US did. Plenty of work, higher pay, stimulus, stocks up. Cant say the same in other places that do harder lock downs.
Love them my sister got pinned under one and that was the end of that. If she didnt try to prove she was a tough biker and learn on a smaller bike first she might have kept it. A big guy with a Yamaha got pinned under his for almost an hour till Lucky for him someone came and helped him out. Ego will get you every time.
Reading all the comments makes me laugh, people want Harley to cater to them, make a cheaper bike so they can get into the brand, thats not how it works, Harley is a premium brand with a great network, thats not free. What next? Apple should reduce their price? BMW, Benz, Cadillac, Lincoln, Audi, maybe they should cheapen their branch so the masses can purchase one?
Yes but Ducati is also a premium brand but they have a Scrambler line aimed at Millennials some of whom are going to be able to afford that CVO someday. Better for Harley if they get them now rather than Ducati gets them and has them buying Multistrada V4s in ten years.
@@jimbranscomb4350 Thats how it works in life lol. You think you are entitled to own whatever you want? Things cost money and Harley is a FOR PROFIT corporation, they are not a charity that prices their bikes like a Honda. To own a Harley, you have to pay the cost of entry, they dont want to cheapen their brand like a RAM truck where the only way they sell them is with steep discounts. I have a 21 Street Glide, 14 Dyna Wide Glide and a 09 Rocker C show bike, i didnt just go out and buy them, i had to EARN them and everything i put on them, thats how life works lol
@@snakebite6511 you misunderstood, the whole Harley mindset is crap. in the Harley delusion, no matter what what someone rides, a Harley is a "step up", which in most cases it is not. I can afford a new harley, I would never buy one. harey dealers act like they are doing you a favor just by talking to you, and I had a sales guy tell me, when I first started riding, "you can't just buy a Harley, you have to earn it", so, not having any experience at that time, I asked what he meant, and in true Harley fashion, the answer was "if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand". so, fuck everything about the bar and shield.
I really liked the Bronx XD. The thing is, even BMW is luxury brand. THey have the s1000rr. But they also have the r310. Making smaller and more attainable stuff doesnt take away from the brand. It adds to it.
The profit margin on all Harley Davidson is nearly 30%. There’s even a dealer hold back of 3-7% per bike so even if they sold it at cost, they’d still make a profit. I have no sympathy for HD’s woes. The solution is obvious but they refuse to do anything about it. Now with real inflation teetering on 17%, 2022 is going to be a really bad year for them. Oh well. They could sell a new street glide special for $20k and still make a profit. They could sell street bobs for $9k and still make a profit. Oh well. Best of luck Pirate Costume Company.
My state has a network of three affiliated dealerships, and the currently have a total of 14 new bikes between them. It's hard to sell things you don't actually have.
Well, the Sportster S is much lighter than the other Harleys but isn't very practical. I think Honda is counting on older HD riders downsizing to the Rebel 1100.
@@DifferentSpokesTV You said Shoe Guy is promising a 500 version. I didn't know that. But like you said, it had better not be another Street. I can't understand how HD makes such nice looking Big Twins, but everything else like SportsterS, PanAmerica and LiveWire look like freaks.
I personally knew several people that were excited about the Bronx and were planning to buy one when they became available. I’d say HD needs to bring it back and fast.
So why are all the Harley dealers sold out of new and used inventory. Online used motorcycle prices for Harleys is through the roof. This doesn't look like lack of demand to me.
I ride a slim and love the bike. I was really hoping to see a 2022 slim with the 114, but that's not going to happen. I would buy the Bronx for my second bike if they would release it.
I can't wait for Harley to go into chapter 11 Harley dealers are rude they have no customer service unless your dad kind of customer they don't want to talk to you everything in the Harley shop is overpriced garbage for such expensive bikes to be so unreliable is pathetic especially in this day and age in the old days if you show 50,000 motorcycles a year it was a good year one of Harley's bulshit crap they're building Smithsonian museums everything self stroking their ego well that stuff cost money to maintain and it's costing them Harley hasn't made a good big twin motor for 20 years guess Sportster air-cooled motor was the most reliable Harley they ever built in these days I have 350 thousand miles on mine with the original engine so I know what I'm talking about what does a guy who knows about sneakers knows about motorcycles and let's face it today's Harley Rider does not modify his own motorcycle he does not change his oil he does not put air in his tires he will not get his lily-white hands dirty they pay the mechanic at the Harley shop $25 for a minimum charge just to check the oil and the air pressure in their tires while they have their free cup of coffee and brag to the other guys how well their stocks are doing and their golf game today's Harley Rider is as morbidly obese as their motorcycle and their penis is as small as the dog they carry in their man purse in the 70s with the real bikers Irish what was known as a hang around I wasn't a member or a prospect I went on the ride went to the party went to the swap meet today's Harley Rider wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of a real biker in the old days are spinelessly pathetic let's be honest everybody laugh at the Rolex Riders they may have money but they got nothing else they have taken a lot of the fun out of motorcycling they took real biker parties and turn them into three ring circuses
I liked the Street Rod, and thought it was a great segway into HD brand and being over here in the UK, having some power restrictions due to certain licenses it works wonders and I thought they should have kept them going whilst the sporters were being discontinued or for a least a couple more years
I think for the most part HD with their new CEO is getting things right. HD was never going to compete with the Japanese bikes and subsequently for them to position themselves as a luxury brand makes sense. It also made sense to get rid of the Bronx for this reason and for them, like Triumph, to build bikes around a couple of engines. However, just as Mercedes Benz doesn’t just sell an S500 HD has to have some bikes that are reasonably priced if they ever hope to attract younger buyers. Even though the adventure market is tight they needed to get into that market and now need to make a middleweight ADV. I think Harleys recipe for success is big iconic cruisers ( there will always be rich people to buy these), ADV bikes ( their will always be rich people who will want something different and people who fantasize about adventure. Plus these have the potential to lure younger people is they make a middleweight ), Performance cruiser ( they nailed it with the Sportster S), I would love to see an XR ( if they kept it to the original this would be a unique bike that would attract younger buyers, I think people get hung up on power and don’t realize how fun a light and zippy bike can be). Electric bikes ( eek no, not a 30k livewire but small urban electrics. This is a bike HD could actually sell overseas and compete against the Japanese with. The gamble is if infrastructures in other countries will adapt to electric. I think they eventually will and in the meantime HD could be solidifying themselves as a premier electric bike company while the Japanese sleep on combustion. I know “different colors” on their big hogs doesn’t seem terribly innovative, because it isn’t, but it’s nonetheless a cheap and smart move. The used market is flush with big cruisers. A lot of which have amazingly low miles. How do u sell a new bike when u can get a used one that has 5k miles on it and somebody spent another 2k on mods and it’s 5 or more k less in price. It’s tough, new colors is the best and cheapest option to do so.
And this is why I criticize everyone who just jumps into a harley with no prior research then wonders why their dinosaur of a motorcycle costs so much more after only 2 months of ownership. the image harley is trying to sell disappeared a long time ago and now people want something economical but fun which doesn't cost a down payment on a house. Personally if I had the 20 grand laying around I'd buy 4 Japanese bikes with way more character and still have money leftover. Or even you could buy one nice 650 and then a toybike; for days you want to take less serious. They need to ditch the heritage and cater to people who can actually afford motorcycles or else they'll sink like they did when Regan was kissing their ass.
Honestly as much as i love Harley i dont really give a damn what they do with new bikes. Over here in Europe they are so insanely expensive that i would never buy a new one. I have two older Harleys. a old rigid mount 1200 Sportster and a twin cam Road King and they do cover all my needs/wants from Harley. Saying that if they would bring out a scrambler esque 750-900 priced similar to Triumph or Ducati´s scrambler i might have to take hit:D
They Just need to sort the range out Bring back the Street 500 & 750 reference the Ducati scrambler range. The Sportster range and that includes the 72 stick both the new engine and revamped evolution in digital clocks reference Indian range. Expand the Adventure bike to 4 with a good range. Not that hard. Get their own app that doesn’t suck you’re bike your orders your services your HOG membership rides meet ups and social events clothing jackets boots pins patches. Factory custom tanks with limited edition paint and badges.
There are many reasons for this which hopefully will now be resolved. 1. European tariffs this has caused massive price hikes and HD subsidising which has cut profit margins. 2. Sportster not available in Europe and UK which were big sellers 3 Lack of Bronx and Smaller Pan America being launched. On the positive the Pan America which I have purchased is doing well and well received in the UK. And the new Revolution Max engine is a masterpiece and should be in more models!
Thanks for the input. I'm glad you like the Pan Am. That bike is proof that Harley can compete on an even footing with other brands. Let's hope they do more of that in the future.
@@DifferentSpokesTV a 750 Revolution Max Pan America with 90-100 Bhp would be epic with two options one with ARH and normal suspension and one with 9.5 inch full off road spec
I'd like to see HD take the European market seriously & bring back the Bronx. Their seriously fugly, overweight, underpowered and *ludicrously expensive* cruisers don't translate well across the Pond & I am p*ssed the Bronx got canned.
I was eagerly awaiting the release of the Bronx & the live wire - then 2021 happened and there was no Bronx & the live wire was $30k = I didn't purchase a HD... Make the live wire $15k and they'd fly off the dealer floors.
I'm a Harley guy I ride a Fatboy. The cvo Street glide. Or road glide is crazy expensive. I just can't afford that most people can't without having a 600 dollar a month payment
For a guy who supposedly rides a Harley you sure diss them. What's this garbage about selling inferior motorcycles. My 2021 Heritage 114 is an excellent bike. Previously, my Ultra was an excellent bike. My '86 883 Sportster has been stone reliable. Harleys are Harleys and they do "being Harleys" really well. In fact they do it much better than all the other brands who have tried. That doesn't make them an inferior product.
I visited a HD dealer last summer, and I swear they don't stop calling me. Never give them your number. HD has come a long way, but model for model, they are just not as good as the competition which costs less btw.
I've been riding Harleys for the past 15 of my 30 years of riding. The reason why I will never buy another new one it's because Harley leaves too many factory flaws on the shoulders of its customers. A premium motorcycle should not be designed with this much penny-pinching in the engine. I'm not talkin about technology I'm just talking about build quality. On top of that Harley has the nerve to increase their prices to what they are now. No thanks Harley-Davidson. I've already worked out all of your penny pinching bugs from my motorcycle and I'm not falling for that again.
Even if I were into the new bikes
I don't know how Harley expects to sell more bikes by making them less accessible due to price, more complicated, and more expensive to maintain because they are non user-serviceable. You can keep that junk.
Example, the water inside speedmeter, this problem is like 50 years!
But they can't stop!!
This bugs me. I was looking at a newer fat bob and the grips and levers are the same as my 2009 XR1200... which are the same as my old 1998 road king.....
They claim premium motorcycle but use bargain bin parts because you're just going to customize it anyways.
Well if I have to buy premium parts for the premium bike then try lowering the price maybe? Triumphs cost half as much and the fit and finish on them is incredible.
yup- Cam tensioners disintegrating, compensators loosening, cases leaking & cracking, main bearings failing before 14K, recalls for stupid things like cable routing, etc. To make matters worse- Harley doesn't acknowledge these things as design flaws - instead; they market an 'upgrade kit' via the ScreaminEagle line. My 2006 Nightrain is my LAST Harley.
@@lynskyrd don't plan on getting rid of mine but I definitely don't plan on ever buying a new one. If I add another Harley to the garage it will probably be a carburated EVO Sportster. That's the only Harley of I've ever owned that was built right straight out of the box. I never had to do anything to my sporty except normal preventative maintenance and wear items like tires.
I wish Harley just made a bigger version of that quad cam gear drive engine for the big bikes.
@@jamessouthworth1699 you're right about the EVO Sportster. I currently own 3 Harleys; 2 EVOs and my 2006 Nightrain. They all run GREAT... I do all my own work-even do my own tires. These guys that put money IN their bike than miles ON their bike ????
When is enough going to be enough? When are the boys and girls gonna wake up?
Ride safe.
Harley's top secret game plan. Cut production and raise prices while increasing the number of parts made in China.
Peter Puller 's top secret game plan is to make sure Harley-Davidson sales will continue to decline at a faster rate than if he kept his mouth shut and mind his own business and stop telling total lies about things he has no information or playing dumb or just plain stupid and likes to see an American company bite the desk along with the rest of them so everything will be made in China as it is from Walmart and.. how many utensils and housewares around your home do you have that are made in the United States and if you shop at Walmart everything you walk out of there with in your hand is made in China Harley-Davidson doesn't have anything to do with what Walmart supports.
And if you're suggesting that Harley-Davidson parts are made in China increasing the number of parts yours claiming that they have told China to build more light bulbs cuz that's the only God damn thing they buy from China like everybody else does cuz that's the only f****** place in the world where you can get LEDs to turn on the lights so they don't burn out but as far as the rest of what's going on was going on in China has all been shut down which tells me in the world that you're a stupid mother f****** c********** son of a b**** and now they know good worthless c********** f****** bastard that needs to eat s*** and die and be done with and get stupid son of a b****** like you out of my goddamn country and go live over there and f****** China where you belong you son of a bitching bastard get the f*** out of my God damn country you mother f****** a****** son of a b**** f*** you eat s*** and f****** die you lying c*********** son of a b****
@@donniebaker5984 donnie baker cant handle the truth. Next time you go to the HD dealership. Note how much of the merchandise is not made in USA. Its easy. If it does not say made in America . Its not. HD wants $500 for a leather jacket made in Pakistan. You can get the same jacket new from Ebay made in Pakistan for $125.
Impressive rant, @@donniebaker5984, but Peter is not the only one who is disappointed with Harley. I think Harley should always have a simple, affordable, underpowered, durable, dependable, bare bones chopper available for the masses.
@@peterpuller8569 Your right on about that. It pisses me off. If Harley customers will just not buy all their merchandise and everyone would voice the reasons to Corporate maybe they will be forced to start producing clothes etc back in USA
@@fourftr Welcome to Beijing Biden's America AKA NWO
What attracted me to Harley was simplicity and a riding experience that no one else could reproduce. Today's riders and consumers want colors, chrome, electronics, and bragging rights. The other thing I notice is there are fewer young riders than in the past. When I was a kid almost everyone one of us rode motorcycles. I started riding when I was seven years old and have loved anything with an engine since. Today I'm almost 62 and still ride 15,000 miles plus a year (back roads not highways). Harley needs basic models like the Electra glide standard (for less $$$) to get people on two wheels and off of four.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I bought a brand new 2018 lowrider for $15k. Hands down the best deal for a big twin at the time. You get the new soft tail suspension and a 107" motor. Granted it has no bells and whistles. But you can throw saddlebags and a windshield and basically have a touring bike for $10k cheaper than a street glide. Unfortunately as you said everyone is looking for all the gadgets and upgrades, sound system, nav, blue tooth, heated grips etc... In my opinion if that's what you need in a bike, you missed the mark on motorcycling. And to that point I've got 30k miles on that bike already.
@@Stivale44 I own a 2013 Ultra Limited (Purchased New) with almost 140,000 and have never listened to the radio. I two-up ride with my wife and bags full of her photography equipment. So I need all the storage but why a radio?
I am a former Harley owner and remain fond of the brand. But I’m a business man who has been riding for over 50 years and am a believer in the necessity to keep pace with present engineering technology. A once famous car brand, Packard, made the same mistake Harley may be making: selling too many old design products while falling behind the competition. One new engine isn’t enough to reverse H-D’s downward trend of slipping sales and rising prices. I hope Harley has a better 2022.
Agree. Honda was a revelation for me. It just works, every time. No compromises. If you want to ride a lot, H-D is lacking in many areas.
I was never wanting nor desiring a new Harley. I wanted something I could rebuild-back to stock. I had always been a Springer fan, and so sought out in the used markey. Eventually I found one, affordable, and not that modified. It needed some work, and eventually the motor will need rebuilt, which I will do with the original if it is in the condition to be such. Has 80,000 on it now, and it still runs strong. There’s nothing like picking up an older Harley and breathing into it new life, preserving the greatness of what it was.
I’ve owned 13 H-D’s since1979 . The oldest a 53 pan head , two iron Sportsters from the mid 70’s , 6 shovel heads , 3 evo’s , and now a 2018 FXLR Low Rider .
I’ve always had a love/hate relationship with the
“ motor company “ because they never seem to listen to their customers !
I’ve tested , for example , the new Triumph Bonneville 1200 cc .
The suspension , brakes , and clutch are all far superior to my new Low Rider .
I really like my new H-D , but they continue to struggle with engineering issues ! Why add a nifty factory installed oil cooler ( finally ! ) and block the front cylinder cooling fins - for example ? Then have a decent suspension , that is adjustable , only to force the rider to remove the seat , and assemble a half assed two - piece spanner wrench to dial it up or down when wanting to allow a passenger to go for a ride !
Then I requested a large windshield and a tall sissy bar for said passenger - NOT AVAILABLE !
Then I had to spring $500.00 for another seat to take a passenger , as the POS “ Gunfighter “ style seat isn’t comfortable for anyone over 10 years old , and it doesn’t even come with heating elements for winter riding !
The handlebar grips HAD to be replaced , as riding for over 30 minutes caused my hands to fall asleep !
As I first stated ; nice overall motorcycle . I am now 61 years old , and I’m afraid that this company could actually go by the way Cushman Scooters did ; outdated and the customer base got “ older “ and eventually no longer purchasing their products with no interest with future generations of riders …
Sad testimony , of another American icon …
I went to a Harley dealership last Summer. They wanted $18K for a Sportster 883. I told them that was ludacris. They then told me $12K as I was walking out the door. Taking advantage of customers isn't a way to increase sales. I bought a Yamaha instead of a Harley.
What country was this in ?
There’s Harley-Davidson, and then there’s everything else. One day you’ll own a Harley-Davidson…until then, you’re always going to be convincing yourself that you like your Yamaha. I know people like that, that now own Harley-Davidsons ✌️😎
I love the Harleys but the price tags have always been a tough pill to swallow especially when I live in New England with limited riding season.
why how much is it?
Funny fact: Honda introduced a whole new range of 125cc bikes recently in the US. The Honda NAVI, Grom, CT Trail, Monkey, Cub!
That is what sells here, even more so with the new B.196 EU rules, allowing theise to be ridden without a motorcycle endorsement on the car driving license.
Not so fun fact... The honda navi is 110cc.
The Livewire failed because it was 30 grand, you could get a Zero or Engencia for 20 grand and they had everything the Livewire had except the price and HD logo. Now they have priced it right, but they recognize that the HD name carries too much baggage to be cool to younger riders. This is going to be a long road back to true profitability for HD.
I bought my first Harley this year as an alternative to my usual Japanese made machines. I wound up buying a 2021 road glide since my wife actually enjoys motorcycle road trips. In the time between trips I rode the thing every chance I got back and forth to work and all around town. As a daily rider I would compare the road glide to watching really expensive paint dry. At 28 years old it just didn't excite me but that doesn't mean I won't ever return to Harley. I understand the appeal now and I respect the people who love them, and not just because we are supposed to respect our elders. The fit and finish was amazing and it felt like a classy well built machine. It didn't burn a drop of oil, the transmission and clutch were silky smooth, and the torque was fairly decent. It's comfortable, very comfortable and was everything I needed but only just. When the time comes, if I manage to dodge all the cagers, I would seriously consider Harley once more. If they want to make a naked bike with the revolution engine, cough cough Bronx, I might end up on one before I get my AARP card.
They do sell you a naked bike with the revolution engine... It's called the Sportster S.
Can I just say also that Bronx is the most ridiculous name I have ever heard for a motorcycle. It's like something David Beckham would name his kid.
From a Wall Street perspective HD's strategy is right on target - high demand for limited supply, product pricing power, cost cutting and rationalizing operations, and very loyal brand base. As an investor what's not to like. As a Harley owner, Harley is nothing but a blood sucking leach with little regard for the health of the sport. Sounds like the typical American business model to me.
Good points.
As a current owner of 3 models i think they are awesome, yeah you pay more but what premium brand doesnt charge more, i have never had a bad experience at any HD dealership and their dealer network is awesome and that alone is worth the uncharge. Indian charges the same for their bikes and their dealer service and dealer network is crap
That isn't the American business model.
I own Harley Stock but I can't afford a Harley Motorcycle so I agree with your comments.
@@jhw326 Jochen Zeitz may go down in history as the guy who saved HD.
It seems to me that Harley specializes in selling very expensive toys to very wealthy buyers. At some point in time that well will dry up, and probably is getting there now. Other manufacturers may sell expensive toys as well, but , they also offer reasonably priced bikes to global markets that require them for transportation. At the end of the day the much higher volume but lower profit bikes create a profitable bottom line for the company. Harley, as you mentioned, has ignored that part of the market.
I went into the local Harley shop one day as I wanted to look at rain gear. The prices were insane, of course, as you are paying for the Harley logo. And I might ad, I did not feel particularly welcome in the showroom. It seemed you needed to be in the Club. The price of admission to that club is a Harley. This was my experience and may not reflect what other showrooms are like.
Agreed. In my city, the HD dealer is also the only game in town for Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, BMW, etc. The other dealer sells Suzuki, Husqvarna, and Indian and avoids selling pre-owned bikes. I walked into the HD dealership about a year ago, and the salesman was put off by the fact that I only wanted to look at Japanese models. While sitting on a Honda Rebel, I got tired of his pitching HD bikes and left. When a customer service rep from the dealership called me the next day to survey my experience, I didn't hold back. I haven't been back since.
Yep, you can still be a premium brand and still sell lower priced bikes. Ducati manages it.
I heard many others say the same .. I was in a Harley / Triumph Dealer.. Windy City International .. They ignored the HD Big Wigs and sold Triumphs in the same building..
I was going to demo a live wire but it was raining a few drops and they don't allow demos when it's misting out ..
I rented a bike for two days through Twisted Road.. A Triumph Tiger 1200 .. I needed rain gear .. Triumph rain suit was 40% off and I still got robbed because it was garbage loose legs and wrists flapping in the wind..
Only rain coat I ever saw that didn't have velcro straps to keep the rain out ..
Aprilia, Indian, Moto Guzzi, MV Agusta, Norton, Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus, Maserati, McLaren, Porsche, Rolls-Royce, Apple, Microsoft, Pfizer, Purdey Guns, Holland and Holland, Diamond Traders, Gold Dealers, Yacht Builders, Truffle Growers, Caviar Farmers may disagree with some of that reasonably priced toys to a global market strategy.
@@DifferentSpokesTV there's a surprising comment coming from you ? Harleys are too expensive, too big, the new Sportster sucks, the pan American is too late, Harley is going bankrupt - my God just stop
i was in the new motorcycle market for the last year or so, and i looked at a lot of bikes. my problem is that i like them all, so it was really tough to make a decision. i ultimately ruled harley-davidson out. even though i like the styling of their line, the performance i wanted wasn't really there and the prices are eye-popping.
Enjoy your Honda Rebel
I bought a Sport Glide in 2019 and have 40 thousand kilometers on it. It has been a versatile platform and fulfills all my needs. It is a trouble free joy to ride. The fact that it will be discontinued means it will become rare. That's fine with me. I love it.
Almost got the Sport Glide for my Alaska trip but the single front disk is hardly sporting and the odd wheel sizes didn't fit my favorite Sport Touring tires... it rode nice and cruise a welcome addition but $18k+ it just missed the mark.
I’m at 21k miles on my Sport Glide also zero issues. Bought it for 17,000 out the door. Didn’t like the single front disk but with ABS it actually works quite well. Bike makes 116 WHP and I somewhat frequently hit triple digit speeds so I probably have been harder on the brakes than the average Sport Glide rider. Anyway it’s solid no brake compliant. Compare to top sport bike brakes of course not.
Well as it goes, I'm not "wealthy" as that term might be generally understood, but after considering the BMW bikes, I ultimately decided to buy the Street Glide. Now, don't get me wrong. I made the right decision, but in my feedback with HD (and, I'm a first time HD owner), I suggested that maybe - just maybe - they should try being a little more generous with their intended audience when it comes to technology, and they just might pick off a few more buyers. You see, in deciding to purchase my Street Glide - oh...Street Glide Special, I had to give up a Japanese Whaleboat size of various technologies that you can find on many other bikes at HD's price point, AND LOWER. Consider this: I have no RDRS, no heated grips, no two-tone paint scheme, no lean or road modes, no this or that. In fact, I don't even have tire pressure monitoring (TPMS). So I told Harley to forgive me for staring at my Street Glide Special every now and then wondering just what might be so special about this bike except for the blacked out color. Having never owned a HD before I will say this. It's outrageously comfortable, easy to board, easy to ride, sounds great, feels great, looks great, moves plenty fast, and I can honestly say there is nothing really like owning, and riding this bike. I get a great many complements from folks while I'm pumping at Chevron. Weirdly or not, I feel perfectly contented.
truer words have never been spoken, building inferior bikes and selling them out is a Harley specialty, hit that nail on the head
Except that calling something inferior is subjective. For the heavyweight cruiser market in the US, A lot of riders, like me, owned several other brands their whole life then switch to Harley and never went back. Because they are inferior? Sure an Indian will blow it off the starting line, or a Honda will have less maintenance issues. But Harley's genius is styling, customization, and dealer network. That's why there are two kinds of people in the world: Haters who secretly want one, and the converts.
@@jerrybrown66 really? "haters that wish they owned one"? that's what Harley people tell themselves to justify their poor choices. I will give them credit, selling a 20,000 dollar vehicle that absolutely requires at least another 6 to 10 thousand in "customizing" just to make it function properly is absolute genius in brainwashing.
A factory custom hardtail chopper would be the best thing Harley could do right now. They wouldn't be able to keep them stocked because of what the demand would be for them. It would have to come with a remake on the panhead or shovelhead engine though. I know I would trade in my Roadglide for one.
I have no true statistics but just a small sample. I do have a 21 RKS but I have bought and refurbished 3 Twin Cams. After you do your own work they are great bikes for a fraction of the cost of a new one. To make my point…I agree that a raw hard tail chopper would be a huge hit.
Half of Harley's market cant ride a hardtail... Bad backs Don't do bar hoppers ,me included !! 😂😂😂
Simply too expensive. When you can buy a 650 for 7-8k that will blow most HDs out of the water, its just hard to justify. Most of the big ones cost 20-30k now, its more than a good portion of cars you can buy, but you get so much less. If they'd get the pricing right, they'd sell.
99% of Harley buyers are middle aged and elderly professionals who, with the continued roll-out of the needle thing will have passed away within the next 12-18 months.
I think the issue with Harley is price, not on the machines but through financing. When considering a sportster in 2020 to rebuild credit (I payed off all my debt before returning to college when I left the army) and get back on the road, the new 8,500 bike was through interest 23,000 at pay off in five years. My used scout was 9,000 and after interest and will cost 12,500 when paid off in the same five years.
The problem is the sales model. Crazy fees, double dipping and lots of points added to loans. My advice is third party financing. The terms are better.
Never finance through a dealer. Stretch the loan for as long as possible for the lowest payments. Make sure you have a "no penalty for early payoff" in the loan and never make a regular payment. Everything over your regular payment goes to principle and you'll pay your loan off quicker while saving money in the process.
@@white_devil73 I wouldn’t stretch it. 48-60 months. Get the lowest rate, but yeah. Know your credit score too. Here are some questions for the F&I thief:
How does the manufacturer’s rates compare to your lenders?
Does the bank have a pre-payment penalty?
Which Credit Bureaus were pulled?
Will you give me the risk based finance notice for all the bureaus that you pulled?
What term gets me the best rate?
Ask the next questions after they reveal the interest rate you qualify for:
How Many Banks Gave Full Approval?
Which Bank are you writing the contract with?
Why did you choose X Bank?
Did another bank approve me for a lower interest rate?
@@my.motorrad
I stretched mine for 60 months but will have it paid in full in just under 48. Harley would only go to 7% apr. All three of my scores were over 800. The dealer actually turned me onto a local credit union and got me 3.75% apr which was their lowest rate. That was lower than anyone else by far because every lender here has higher rates for bikes. I don't have an early payoff fee and I always pay extra on my loan. My regular payment is $367 and I always pay $400-$500/ month. Everything over the regular amount applies directly to the principle. I started the loan last May and I've already shaved 11 months off of my term. The good thing about having 800-plus credit scores was that they didn't ask questions. They just wanted me to sign. But I agree with you if someone has average credit.
@@white_devil73 With 800 I'd figure it should be closer to 3%. 7 is usury. They are making about 5-5.5% on that.
It always seems that people want Harley to be a different motorcycle company. Harley is what it is and if you don't like it there are other companies willing to sell to you. Personally, I love my Harleys, especially the Low Rider S I just got. It's a great motorcycle and well worth the price I paid.
You said it. Ride safe and Have a Merry Christmas and blessed happy new year
Nah, i couldn't care less what harley is, the could stay being what they are. I don't like them so a company like triumph sold me a bike😎
@@Kris_P._Bey_Ken to each their own, i have 3 Harley's (2021 Street Glide, 2014 Dyne Wide Glide and 2009 Rocker C) all great bikes. People have their own taste and have the right to spend their money how they choose, I like Harley because of the readily available parts where i can customize my bikes to fit me no matter what i am looking for. The dealer network is awesome, i agree that some up grades at Harley is ridiculous but most motorcycle upgrades are. I wont go back to Indian because of shitty network which is also why i wont go to Triumph, Norton, Honda, Suzuki (i do like Yamaha cruisers and the Star series are great bikes AND DEALER SERVICE DOESNT MATTER BECAUSE THEY RUN FOR EVER)
@@snakebite6511 it breaks my heart that they dwindled down the Yamaha Star line to 2 bikes. They pulled out of the game way too early. I still say the Raider/Stryker is one of the prettiest bikes ever made. All they had to do to compete was add a 6th gear and they were golden.
Agree.. if you want something other then a Harley then go buy something different.. Harley's are sweet bikes and I wouldn't trade mine for anything lease
The problem with Harley Davidson is their philosophy of gouging their costumers. I've owned several over the last thirty years, my most recent (and last) purchase was Street Glide Special 2021, with the upgraded Infotainment system which to use to it's full potential you need to purchase the WHIM at another $300, which only came to light after the bike was bought. Sorry Harley I will not recommend your product to family (my son is about to purchase his first bike) or friends with the constant swindling of the buyer being the rule.
When you say used to its full potential, what does the WHIM do?
I am not some financial guru by any means. I bought a 2019 ultra limited for 32 grand. The goldwing that year was that much with the same trim and the BMW K1600GTL with similar set up is actually more expensive. Many people talk about harleys being over priced but for the type of bike I need the price with tax is all in the 32 to 35 thousand dollar bracket. Some of their lesser models are slightly over priced but not as wildly as people seem to think. The hotrod Harley FXDR 114 was 24 grand. The triumph rocket 3 r or gt is 23 grand the ducati diavel is 28 grand with no accessories. The bang for the buck deal in that category is the Yamaha vmax at 18 grand. That's even though the vmax is the baddest of the bunch. Usually the one that comes with the heavy weight crown as a standard option is the most expensive. Harley sales might be behind the rest of the motorcycle industry but the whole motorcycle industry is taking a hit because the new generation of young people just aren't into motorcycles. Lots of things will die with this new generation. They don't want classic cars,motorcycles, or antiquities. They want smart phones, computer games, free college degrees in liberal arts or political science. They also have no desire to work.
Not entirely true. The "younger" generation just aren't interested in 1200cc lumps that cost a small fortune and will be a nightmare to maintain (build quality of HD isn't what it used to be). That's why 350-450 supermotos, rebel 500s or anything in between are more popular. A younger person, just out of college, up to their eyeballs in debt isn't buying a 25 grand motorbike when they can get a rebel 500 for 1/5th the price, it doesn't eat fuel (which is also now expensive), it's cheaper to insure, modern tech and is overall a more enjoyable experience (face it, HD's aren't the gods of the bike world people would have you believe).
Love my Harley but this 5k over msrp for a new street glide is ridiculous and the used bike market is even worse. They are trying to piggy back off the car market.
I recently went to an HD showroom. I was looking around, and a friendly hipster bro in plaid and Vans started a conversation. A few minutes in, I inquired if they were getting a Pan America. His demeanor instantly changed, and this man, the SALESMAN, who's job it is to promote and sell the product said to me verbatim, "it's a piece of shit."
Amazing.
It might help if they stoped bolting a fridge, or what it is, over the frontwheel...
Careful, the Road glide crew will come after ya :)
Or even a microwave oven to the handlebars! 😂
Overpriced motorcycles just don't sell well in a weak economy. Plus, the well of people that Harley-Davidson has been pulling from for the last 100 years, is slowly drying up.
Hey man. You nailed it! Thats exactly what Harley should do. Im building an old school Harley chopper right now. Have done a few flat track/scrambler bikes and they sell in a day. Next to adventure bikes these are the most popular class of bike right now, in my opinion.The old school bare bones approach seems to never go out of style.
1.Sell it for less and sell more? 2. Sell it for more and sell less?
I think #1 is a better approach for all involved. Why can't they see that? Do they think it would de- value what they have already sold? Man I dont get these guys, give the people what they want and are begging for.... PLEASE!!
Yep, it seems that other "premium" brands like Triumph get it. They offer the Tiger 1200 for a premium and the Trident 660 to get the newer rider in the door.
Decent priced naked bike with around 120 hp and able to take a turn quickly. I would like if they could build something to compete with the Yamaha FZ07 and Kawasaki Z900. I love the look of a Harley but hate the handling and stopping.
I was gonna buy a Pan America. I was ready to sign papers. They had already quoted me a price. It was a stretch, but I figured what the heck, just buy it. Then they tell me they've raised the price up $3,000. They lost a sale, I walked out.
Wow, I guess the demand is high enough for dealers to try to get away with this kind of stuff. It's short term gain at the cost of building long term relationships with customers.
1:36 the drop in Europe is due to the punitive counter tariffs on motorcycles. They're on the right path, but they need to make dramatic cuts to production and office overhead and cancel anything that's not selling. The company needs a total re-set.
I think those tariffs were reversed before coming into effect. However, HD prices in Europe are still way higher than in North America.
Europeans aren't allowed to leave there house without a hall pass.
HD have no A2 bikes. Start riding at age a minimum 24+ make riders already have other brand preference. The association with the US in a post-Trump is no benefit either. Look at Honda and their $1800 Navi. That bike makes new riders. Legal for B1.96 too, can be ridden on car driving license only.
@@Airpang100 The Honda Navi is going to bring in new riders. This old rider is moving from a BMW R1200RT and a Honda VFR to a Honda Monkey. Well I put in a deposit, who knows when I will actually get one!! The Monkeys are fun and popular.
It makes sense that sales are dropping when they are making fewer bikes. In the meantime the NADA value for my 2018 has increased to almost the MSRP in 2018. I was offered what I paid to trade it in, but there is nothing I currently want to trade it for.
I have owned Harleys for over 40 years bought brand new, they turn to rust as soon as they see a cloud in the sky, they make deaf in your right ear. I love them but in reality in the last 10 years I rarely ride any of my Harleys. When they produced bikes that could not run on normal high octane fuel in cold weather this was a point i began to stop enjoying going out on them. I used to be regular upgrading my bike every other year. But I can ride any Japanese, Italian bike and they are minimal maintenance and do the same job.
moto guzzi? but everything subjective. I think the last time i took either my Harleys out anywhere was over 10 years now. I like Harleys but i do see less of them around in Europe and Asia @Buddy
@Buddy I guess there is a balance years ago BMW were seen as too expensive for the common man. now they are everywhere but they still keep that exclusive feel. I would like Harley to go the VW micro bus route - make more a clear way of life call. and fill out the range with some smaller bikes. But get this 'brand' identity moved it can only be fat v twin. it's digging a rut. an whats a rut? a rut is a grave with the ends kicked in. Yes i agree we all like to be special i have got the only one, don't be surprised if you see me down a Harley shop buying a new one cause the brand does have that x factor. So what did BMW do that kept it special? well you probably know. when you buy one you are give a computer and you select what bits and accessories what colors etc you going have. much like you select your ingredients for a meal. Harley could go that route. then each harley probably one be unique.
@Buddy the whole tax thing between America and Europe is one massive bun fight. However if we just said money no object which manufacturer would you go with? Because when we go buy these toys really how much is on price ticket is not the deciding factor. Why do we know that because most bikes are bought on loans arranged by the Harley outlets. I would like Harley to sell Harley Davidson toy bikes for junior. I would like them with a certificate and unique number. I would like Harley to promote more their Holiday on Harley rental deal. I would like to buy my new Harley on menu selection option, where i choose, seat color, style, chrome or trims, wheels etc. that the bike is sold on a loan. that servicing is in the loan deal. that do a buy back and resell option. that they sell a range of bike different styles. different cc's. I partially want them to sell a vintage to small engine Harley like the first Harley in bicycle frame. I want them to go for the vintage small market exclusive designer coffee cup brigade with a bike thats got grandad stamped through its heart. I want Harley bigger better stronger.
There has to be a lot of pressure on some of their dealers. Most of these big, expensive dealerships were built back when a Harley was the hot ticket. Supply didn't meet demand and the popular models all went for over MSRP. They sold tons of accessories and $40 t-shirts, times were good. All that changed in 2008 and Harley has been trying to adjust ever since. I have 2 old Harleys myself and I can remember when they weren't a statement or a status symbol or jewelry for people with money. You owned one because you liked riding it. I hope they find their way.
WOW! Great video. Your channel is getting better and better… Love the latest changes. 👍
Good suggestions but what Harley needs is new management. Any group that comes up with the electric bike you also mentioned has no idea what makes Harley Davidson the iconic company it has been and can be again.
Everything you said is the complete opposite of the truth
@@TheAsheybabe89 if everything I said is false then Ashley please explain why sales have been tanking now for years and expensive R&D projects like the Electric Bike get no traction what’s so ever?
The sales slide is even more damning when you realize they claim they are selling all the Pan Americas they can build. I would prefer to have their equivalent to the BMW R1250RT with a true full fairing and with the innovative lowering suspension and belt drive
I finally reached a point in life where I am ready to purchase my first Harley. My taste ran more to classic styling. First the Deluxe went. Now my second choice the Soft tail Slim is going away this year. I don't want a highway cruiser that costs as much as a small car. Plus, I have no desire to take long road trips. Finding a Harley I like has become a moving target
I guess they're consolidating the Softails. The new bikes intro will be on January 26th so hopefully they introduce something you like by then.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Thx
Any Soft-Tail is good, buy a lower end one and set it up the way you like ! You'll never look back !
@@daghostxxx1797 Thx
Sounds like a Heritage with white walls might do the trick for you
The Livewire was overpriced by at least $7k (USD); they proved it by making its own brand, not making any changes to the bike, and dropping the price by that amount.
HD wants Dyna money for the Sportster S, which is ridiculous. I’m sure the Bronx would have been a big seller, but we may never know.
The PanAm was a great step in the right direction, and they priced it pretty well, however it’s five years too late. Most buyers are looking for a middle weight ADV bike, and Harley needs to build one like yesterday.
As someone who has owned both a Triumph and BMW ADV and now own the HD PA, I have to say one of my biggest gripes is with quality. This bike has the engine, but other parts of this bike are cheap and for the same money I could have gone with either the UK or German bike and gotten quality well ahead of this one. My unofficial estimate based on several forums is that 80-85% of PA owners are HD loyalist and that's fine, but they aren't selling to new markets with this bike and that could be the death of this bike.
The worst part is the that HD is also going towards ordering bikes more custom to your needs. I'm sure the overall prices will go up to. I'm looking to buy in 2022 so I hope it isn't as bad as all that. #ripslim
H-D needs to bring out a new Cafe Racer XLCR, with the New Engine, and make it look as much as possible as the Original.
I don't know if HD would ever consider it, but personally I'd like to see a 500 or 750cc powered ADV bike. That segment really seems to be growing. If the put a 750cc engine into their current Pan America frame, I don't think it would be able to get out of its own way, though; so HD will have to design something new. Probably not going to happen, but you did ask what we'd like to see.
I am a bit upset that the Sport Glide is gone as well as the Softail Slim. I was actually trying to save some money to get one...one day.
Plenty of used ones on the market still I'm sure. Although the cancellation may bring up the price as well.
@@DifferentSpokesTV both statements are true, I just thought they were up my alley with the looks (slim) and function (sport glide)
When WillieG turned the marketing over to his daughter the company began to fail - we own 2 older bikes from HD and stockpiled parts.
HD is going to fail
Easy fix: focus on adventure bikes. The big ones (Super T and GSA) are heavy and powerful. That's right in Harley's wheel house. Then build classic cruisers with hot swapable batteries. Harley shops are ubiquitous. Take advantage of that and put swap out batteries for ebikes at those locations. Not charging stations, actual swap out battery packs.
I like ADV bikes, but a scrambler would make more sense IMO. I would not buy and ADV from harley, when other companies make better ones.
I hate to say this, but the worst thing for Harley is happening... hyper-inflation. People aren't going to be able to heat their homes this winter, let alone purchase a luxury vehicle that's going to be 20-30% more than it was last year. They desperately need those 975-1250cc bikes, $12k or less. Ultra luxury limited runs of bikes that harken back to yesteryear isn't going to cut it, not by a long shot.
There are always those who can afford the premium stuff, but if Harley wants to start selling more bikes in the future they will have to sell some less pricey ones to younger customers.
@@DifferentSpokesTV 9% of the population have investable assets of one million of more. As a financial advisor, I would prefer to cater to people with one million or more but there is a bigger pool of people with 500k or more. Harley is focusing on 5% of the population that can afford their bikes. Porsche can afford that business model because they’re owned by Volkswagen and a car is more practical than a bike and less dangerous, so Porsche can get away with not selling cars below a certain amount. Harley will be sold one day and it will be back to the AMF days. It’ll be a good short term purchase. They’ve already spun off their electrical division and maybe preparing to be acquired by another company
One thing not mentioned is that many HD riders are retiring from riding and due to the pricing and even worse lack of Reliability they are going to have a hard time pulling in newer riders. All of the new bikes being introduced are simply WAY over PRICED. Sorry HD your new offerings often double the price of many of the competition.
I own two Harley-Davidson’s and I still don’t feel accepted or part of the “Club” when I visit the dealership. It seems that everything they make is at least a flash back to the past and is styled for my great grandfather. I’m almost 60 and the styles they make look old to me!
I have no problem with a 70’s style, but anything older than that just looks OLD!
And what is H-D ‘s fascination with forward controls?
I’ve had my Harley-Davidson’s for almost 20 years, but if I have another motorcycle, it probably will not be a H-D.
I'm gonna be 27 here soon and if you feel that way how do you think I feel hahaha.
Sell them for less money???
They should make the Bronx in a 1250. Its would sell like hot cakes.
Harley relied on old timers like me to continue buying their over priced under performing bikes for years. Buy a new Harley then you need stage 2 kit, after market exhaust, the list goes on. I have a BMW K1600B for several years and Harley can’t compete. It’s the best looking bike ever, vast amount of technology and I have left every Harley in the rear view. Harley beats it on noise and vibration though!!
I would be thrilled to see a revamped XR750, as well as a new, more traditionally styled Sportster 975. Either one might just be enough to finally get me to pull the trigger.
Narrow roads in Europe? That's a funny one, we actually fit trucks, buses and other vehicles larger than bikes on our streets and road's. However, we tend to dislike overpriced, overweight low quality chunks of iron. That might be one reason making HD not doing so well.
Euro riders tend to spend less time on freeways, that's why baggers don't do as well. They're highway bikes.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Very true, most bikers do anything to avoid highways. After all it's the turning that make all the fun, not the A to B part. But of course some people have different preferences. 🏍️
Yes, unfortunately in North America if you want to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time you'll have to spend some time droning on the highway. From where I live it's four days of hard riding just to get to the west coast (five in Canada)... and I'm not even on the east coast!
I constantly see videos saying HD is dying but I literally see more harleys on the road than ever. At least 8 out 10 are HDs every day. And they are newer bikes.
They did sell more in the US last year, but their international sales fell by more than their US sales went up.
@Buddy lol I 100% highly doubt that. They are going to do what they did before. Sell less bikes for more money. People forget back in the mids 2000s u wer on a waiting list to get a new HD. They arent going anywhere
The motorcycle business is alive & well every where except Harley Davidson. According to a press release issued by BMW Motorrad on 8 July 2020, the motorcycle manufacturer achieved record sales - its "best ever sales result" - in June, selling 20,021 BMW motorcycles in the month, a 12% increase over June 2019 sales figures. This also represents nearly a 10% increase in sales over May 2020, showing BMW motorcycles to be enjoying an upward trend despite the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.
As a 'Murican, I root for the home team, but man- my spreadsheet doesn't lie. The cost of ownership of my Dyna greatly exceeds every other cycle I've owned. As so many people below stated- you have to 'finish' the bike yourself and it costs a fortune. I've had to rebuild fork seals, master cyclinders, and fix some plain evil lean-running conditions on my 'modern' bike way before I would have expected (
Concerning a Factory Hardtail Chopper. I thought that the Softail Nightrain had that look. With the Drag Bars and low profile, it sealed the deal for me. I ended up with the Softail Standard, still have it. Not sure but rigid frames may be outlawed in Canada, or at least in some provinces. I have one also.
It is odd that the whole genre of 'chopper' style motorcycles, usually Harleys, was started by so called outlaw club members. Harley wanted nothing to do with them or the image. Today it is the image they want to sell. Club members today usually ride baggers with ape hangers and the rigid frame choppers are history.
Yeah, it is too bad. I wasn't aware that Hardtails are not allowed in Canada. Seems a silly rule. You could put springer seats on them and I can't imagine that the lack of a rear suspension affects the handling that much.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Until you hit a sizeable pothole with that rear tire.... and then you wonder why you're flyin' theough the air... 😞
Sales fall Has a lot to do with there over pricing. Example in 2016 street glide special 22,000 today 34,000 with less on them.
2 CVO Paint is shit. Look at cvo custom paint just from 2014 to 2018 and now look. There's no effort put forth on them.
Over priced for what they are . I'm dumping my 2008 Softail Custom. The bike looks great runs very well but way to pricey and too heavy as well . And I owned 4 Harley's so I'm pretty well diversified in this subject. Can't get them to go but what is even worse you can't get them to STOP !!!!
If I’m going to drop a crazy amount of money on a bike, it’s going to be on a Ducati or BMW.
Never in my life a H-D, although I really like the styling and looks of them.
Their just not worth it.
Besides there is a vast second hand market with lots of choice.
Right now the prices are ridiculous. They are wanting 18k for a used street bob. MSRP on a new one is $15k. They also try to get you to concentrate on the monthly payments instead of the total price. That just pisses me off. Until prices come down I don't see it getting any better.
What happens when investors are more concerned about profit than passion for the motorcycle... Wonder how many of those investors even ride.... I remember back when you could purchase jewelry at a dealership but not a bike... Not even one on the showroom floor.... Started the process to eliminate every independent shop that supported riders...
Now we have Harley department stores.... Just try and get an old Shovel or Pan into one of these stores nowadays.....
Rebuilding my 1973 Shovel now... frame up project.... But riding my 2020 Tri Glide till Shovel is completed.
End of rant.... oh, and I'm not wealthy....
I’m so sick of waiting to see what Harley is going to do just to be disappointed because it’s yet another outrageously expensive motorcycle that I’m just not going to buy! Been waiting for this new 975 sportster but I’ve pumped so much $$ into my iron 883 that there’s no way I’m parting with it now! If they had dropped a bike last year with some modern tech and performance and priced it competitively, 10-13k I would have absolutely bought that bike! Not now though. I’m far too invested in my 883 to let her go now. Yeah, I’ll just keep my sporty, Harley can do whatever.
Yours'll be a classic someday.
What did you do to your 883? I modified the hell out of my 2018 Forty Eight too, and I will never get rid of it!
I'm not entirely sure they could legally sell a hardtail chopper, and it would probably make no sense to re-start manufacturing Evo engines, but they could make a M8 Softail chopper relatively easily. I doubt that they will attempt to make an affordable big twin though, besides the Softail Standard. I think the way forward is to make a unitized big twin that is cheaper to produce than the current setup of separate motor and transmission joined through a primary drive. They could probably save 10 - 15% on manufacturing costs right there. I love my '18 Softail Deluxe and I'm sure I'll keep it until I can no longer ride, but I doubt I'll buy another Harley. Indian seems to be the American motorcycle company that is looking forward with their designs. I'd rather support them to be honest. Harley is becoming a "rich boy's toy" and not a blue collar ride.
like most other manufactures Harley been effected by the crap going on in this world too.
it's not just a Harley problems. Most dealers can't even keep new bikes on the show room floor because they can't get enough of them fast enough from the factory . Also I'm far from rich I just choose ride what I like best
they keep missing the mark, too over priced for what you get. getting rid of their best bikes, etc. I am a Harley rider for over 40 years and will never buy another one
Fortunately plenty of used ones on the market :)
Indian challenger is the same price as a Street Glide. BMW Gs1200 adventure is the same price as the Pan America. The premium brands are always more than the Japanese bikes. They always will be. They can't afford not to. Honda/yamaha make generators, dirtbikes, outboard motors etc they have money to play with. HD only makes bikes and apparel.
There was a severe shortage of bike supply the first half of the year.
I was at an event at my dealer last night and they now seem to have plenty of bikes. Unfortunately it's winter in Philly so not many sales, but that's seasonal. They had a board posted with lots of appointments listed so they still seem to be moving bikes regardless. Prices are up also and none of the sales people that approached me talked great deals which would be the only reason to buy in December.
Yep, the 6.8% inflation is catching up with us.
Over priced, over hyped and your grandpas motorcycle. Next wave is middle class sport touring bikes under 1,000 ccs. What’s in their pipeline to get part of the market?
They could build a small one based on the Bronx and a big one based on the Pan America. The challenge is getting them to market for a reasonable price.
@@DifferentSpokesTV that is a big part of their problem. Not many people can afford to drop 25 large on a bike these days. Well, they afford a payment not price of the bike.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Based on then color combinations and accessories they are introducing they are targeting certain demographic groups. Probably not a bad move considering it’s becoming a larger % of the US population.
What to do in 2022 ? How about lowering the price !! ( I still have my 95 Harley because prices are too HIGH )!!
Hardly..... Myself and ALOT of current HD riders wrote off HD as younger riders (slow, couches, boring, etc). These folks like myself wouldnt have wanted any HD in the beginning years (especially now with the great import rockets available). I hit the street on mcs in the late 80s on fast import sportbikes, stayed on em through the 90s, 00s, 10s and still have a fast import sportbike in the garage today (always will). I had always bagged on HDs when younger. I have had two well built HDs 17 Dyna LRS and 16 Streetglide (in addition to ADVs and sportbikes) since 2016. Folks that believe HD needs beginner bikes for riders to stay alive is a myth. My experience is a very large part of HD riders are import converts and are very much like myself. HDs will always be cool to those that get them. If you get them, you understand and nothing else is a HD. Theyre bought because of this. The bagger and softail line will always be popular and a seller. Even if HD did away with every other bike theyd be just fine for a long time, no doubt. HD could care less about low income buyers, thats not their ideals. Never has and never will be. They will always price to buyers as a premium, knowing both thats the folks they want and those are the folks buying HD upgrades. I dont fault their philosophy as most HD owners. Knocking HD because of affordability is a moot point. Makes about much sense as Honda owners knocking BMW, MB, etc for selling their way. Just looks like cheap blows and something HD laughs at. If you cant afford one now, you cant. Making it an HD issue, doesnt make HD look bad.
Good points.
They keep saying that Harley is failing, but sales floors shows otherwise. Dealers can’t keep inventory on the floor. Walk into any Harley Dealership and most of what you will see are used bikes for sale. They keep saying the younger generation isn’t buying Harley’s and that current Harley owners are aging away. For the last 30 - 40 years that I can remember, Harley has never appealed to the younger crowd. When I was a young Marine tearing up the hills of Southern CA, I rode Ninja’s, GSXR’s, and Intercepter’s. But I eventually outgrew crotch rockets and wanted a Harley. I bought my first Harley on my 45th birthday and haven’t looked back. I have upgraded from a Softtail to bagger to CVO. I am now 59. If I was 24 years old again I may want a crotch rocket to go with a younger man’s lifestyle. Nostalgic air cooled Harley’s will always appeal to the 40 plus crowd. That’s the way its been and that’s the way it is currently.
I would have bought the Bronx, but no other HD interests me.
I'd like to see a Bronx Cafe bike.
Im 40, NOT a harley fan, in fact i find them boarderline offensive. That said I actually liked the Pan Am. I went to test ride it and it was broken, they refused to tell my why other than a part was needed. I ended up going to an event that had them doing demo rides and took the ride. Found out I did not like the bike. So many reasons. Chance failed in gaining new buyers.
Truth is im a sports bike guy but ended up buying the Multistrada V4S Big surprise right. BUT I did ride ALL the bikes in that class and brand aside it was the best for me.
Yep, I've ridden both and the Duc is faster and a bit tighter for sure. But I have to admit, the Pan Am is nice and may be better off-road.
I would attribute world wide sales decreases to other countries not experiencing the same glut of cash that the US did. Plenty of work, higher pay, stimulus, stocks up. Cant say the same in other places that do harder lock downs.
Love them my sister got pinned under one and that was the end of that. If she didnt try to prove she was a tough biker and learn on a smaller bike first she might have kept it. A big guy with a Yamaha got pinned under his for almost an hour till Lucky for him someone came and helped him out. Ego will get you every time.
Great video man . They did build the bike your talking about , a sportster 72 . Bolt on hardtail kit and a chain drive swap kit , BAM instachopper.
Reading all the comments makes me laugh, people want Harley to cater to them, make a cheaper bike so they can get into the brand, thats not how it works, Harley is a premium brand with a great network, thats not free. What next? Apple should reduce their price? BMW, Benz, Cadillac, Lincoln, Audi, maybe they should cheapen their branch so the masses can purchase one?
Yes but Ducati is also a premium brand but they have a Scrambler line aimed at Millennials some of whom are going to be able to afford that CVO someday. Better for Harley if they get them now rather than Ducati gets them and has them buying Multistrada V4s in ten years.
ah yes the "you don't just buy a Harley, you have to EARN it" attitude, fuck everything about that
@@jimbranscomb4350 Thats how it works in life lol. You think you are entitled to own whatever you want? Things cost money and Harley is a FOR PROFIT corporation, they are not a charity that prices their bikes like a Honda. To own a Harley, you have to pay the cost of entry, they dont want to cheapen their brand like a RAM truck where the only way they sell them is with steep discounts. I have a 21 Street Glide, 14 Dyna Wide Glide and a 09 Rocker C show bike, i didnt just go out and buy them, i had to EARN them and everything i put on them, thats how life works lol
@@snakebite6511 you misunderstood, the whole Harley mindset is crap. in the Harley delusion, no matter what what someone rides, a Harley is a "step up", which in most cases it is not. I can afford a new harley, I would never buy one. harey dealers act like they are doing you a favor just by talking to you, and I had a sales guy tell me, when I first started riding, "you can't just buy a Harley, you have to earn it", so, not having any experience at that time, I asked what he meant, and in true Harley fashion, the answer was "if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand". so, fuck everything about the bar and shield.
@@jimbranscomb4350 yeah, that would piss me off also but it’s not all dealers.
Apologies for taking your initial comment wrong
I really liked the Bronx XD. The thing is, even BMW is luxury brand. THey have the s1000rr. But they also have the r310. Making smaller and more attainable stuff doesnt take away from the brand. It adds to it.
Totally agree.
You should see a dentist if a modern rubber mount Sportster is shaking your fillings loose
The profit margin on all Harley Davidson is nearly 30%. There’s even a dealer hold back of 3-7% per bike so even if they sold it at cost, they’d still make a profit.
I have no sympathy for HD’s woes. The solution is obvious but they refuse to do anything about it. Now with real inflation teetering on 17%, 2022 is going to be a really bad year for them.
Oh well. They could sell a new street glide special for $20k and still make a profit. They could sell street bobs for $9k and still make a profit.
Oh well. Best of luck Pirate Costume Company.
My state has a network of three affiliated dealerships, and the currently have a total of 14 new bikes between them. It's hard to sell things you don't actually have.
I love the Harley-Davidson Big Twin, but now I'm an old guy and my next motorcycle is going to be smaller than anything Harley makes.
Well, the Sportster S is much lighter than the other Harleys but isn't very practical. I think Honda is counting on older HD riders downsizing to the Rebel 1100.
@@DifferentSpokesTV
You said Shoe Guy is promising a 500 version. I didn't know that. But like you said, it had better not be another Street. I can't understand how HD makes such nice looking Big Twins, but everything else like SportsterS, PanAmerica and LiveWire look like freaks.
I would like to see a bike in the flattrack section, like the FTR 1200
Yes, but smaller.
I personally knew several people that were excited about the Bronx and were planning to buy one when they became available. I’d say HD needs to bring it back and fast.
So why are all the Harley dealers sold out of new and used inventory. Online used motorcycle prices for Harleys is through the roof. This doesn't look like lack of demand to me.
I ride a slim and love the bike. I was really hoping to see a 2022 slim with the 114, but that's not going to happen. I would buy the Bronx for my second bike if they would release it.
I'd like to see a Bronx based Cafe racer or Sport Tourer. Might be nice to branch out.
I can't wait for Harley to go into chapter 11 Harley dealers are rude they have no customer service unless your dad kind of customer they don't want to talk to you everything in the Harley shop is overpriced garbage for such expensive bikes to be so unreliable is pathetic especially in this day and age in the old days if you show 50,000 motorcycles a year it was a good year one of Harley's bulshit crap they're building Smithsonian museums everything self stroking their ego well that stuff cost money to maintain and it's costing them Harley hasn't made a good big twin motor for 20 years guess Sportster air-cooled motor was the most reliable Harley they ever built in these days I have 350 thousand miles on mine with the original engine so I know what I'm talking about what does a guy who knows about sneakers knows about motorcycles and let's face it today's Harley Rider does not modify his own motorcycle he does not change his oil he does not put air in his tires he will not get his lily-white hands dirty they pay the mechanic at the Harley shop $25 for a minimum charge just to check the oil and the air pressure in their tires while they have their free cup of coffee and brag to the other guys how well their stocks are doing and their golf game today's Harley Rider is as morbidly obese as their motorcycle and their penis is as small as the dog they carry in their man purse in the 70s with the real bikers Irish what was known as a hang around I wasn't a member or a prospect I went on the ride went to the party went to the swap meet today's Harley Rider wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of a real biker in the old days are spinelessly pathetic let's be honest everybody laugh at the Rolex Riders they may have money but they got nothing else they have taken a lot of the fun out of motorcycling they took real biker parties and turn them into three ring circuses
I liked the Street Rod, and thought it was a great segway into HD brand and being over here in the UK, having some power restrictions due to certain licenses it works wonders and I thought they should have kept them going whilst the sporters were being discontinued or for a least a couple more years
Yes, but the Street Rod could have been done much better. Then perhaps they'd still be here. They were always an afterthought for HD.
Street Rod Super Heavy .. feet forward riding postion crappy brakes and no good on twsities with very poor lean angle
@@mikeskidmore6754 Are you sure you know what you’re talking about? It seems like you are talking about a totally different bike.
@@TheLaloloco24 The V-Rod sucked handles like a Boat.. A Yamaha V-Max is way way faster 184 HP good brakes and good corner speed..
@@mikeskidmore6754 Street Rod...not V-Rod
The big problem is they got rid of the more affordable models. Not everyone can afford a$25,000 bike
They are called "Hogs" for a reason!
I think for the most part HD with their new CEO is getting things right. HD was never going to compete with the Japanese bikes and subsequently for them to position themselves as a luxury brand makes sense. It also made sense to get rid of the Bronx for this reason and for them, like Triumph, to build bikes around a couple of engines. However, just as Mercedes Benz doesn’t just sell an S500 HD has to have some bikes that are reasonably priced if they ever hope to attract younger buyers. Even though the adventure market is tight they needed to get into that market and now need to make a middleweight ADV.
I think Harleys recipe for success is big iconic cruisers ( there will always be rich people to buy these), ADV bikes ( their will always be rich people who will want something different and people who fantasize about adventure. Plus these have the potential to lure younger people is they make a middleweight ), Performance cruiser ( they nailed it with the Sportster S), I would love to see an XR ( if they kept it to the original this would be a unique bike that would attract younger buyers, I think people get hung up on power and don’t realize how fun a light and zippy bike can be). Electric bikes ( eek no, not a 30k livewire but small urban electrics. This is a bike HD could actually sell overseas and compete against the Japanese with. The gamble is if infrastructures in other countries will adapt to electric. I think they eventually will and in the meantime HD could be solidifying themselves as a premier electric bike company while the Japanese sleep on combustion.
I know “different colors” on their big hogs doesn’t seem terribly innovative, because it isn’t, but it’s nonetheless a cheap and smart move. The used market is flush with big cruisers. A lot of which have amazingly low miles. How do u sell a new bike when u can get a used one that has 5k miles on it and somebody spent another 2k on mods and it’s 5 or more k less in price. It’s tough, new colors is the best and cheapest option to do so.
And this is why I criticize everyone who just jumps into a harley with no prior research then wonders why their dinosaur of a motorcycle costs so much more after only 2 months of ownership. the image harley is trying to sell disappeared a long time ago and now people want something economical but fun which doesn't cost a down payment on a house. Personally if I had the 20 grand laying around I'd buy 4 Japanese bikes with way more character and still have money leftover. Or even you could buy one nice 650 and then a toybike; for days you want to take less serious. They need to ditch the heritage and cater to people who can actually afford motorcycles or else they'll sink like they did when Regan was kissing their ass.
For 20 Grand you could get a T7, KLX300 and used MT07. That would make for a nice garage.
@@DifferentSpokesTV With that kind of money you could cover almost 4 styles of riding and have a stable with practically no limits.
Honestly as much as i love Harley i dont really give a damn what they do with new bikes. Over here in Europe they are so insanely expensive that i would never buy a new one. I have two older Harleys. a old rigid mount 1200 Sportster and a twin cam Road King and they do cover all my needs/wants from Harley.
Saying that if they would bring out a scrambler esque 750-900 priced similar to Triumph or Ducati´s scrambler i might have to take hit:D
Yep, that would be hard to resist.
They Just need to sort the range out Bring back the Street 500 & 750 reference the Ducati scrambler range. The Sportster range and that includes the 72 stick both the new engine and revamped evolution in digital clocks reference Indian range. Expand the Adventure bike to 4 with a good range. Not that hard. Get their own app that doesn’t suck you’re bike your orders your services your HOG membership rides meet ups and social events clothing jackets boots pins patches. Factory custom tanks with limited edition paint and badges.
There are many reasons for this which hopefully will now be resolved.
1. European tariffs this has caused massive price hikes and HD subsidising which has cut profit margins.
2. Sportster not available in Europe and UK which were big sellers
3 Lack of Bronx and Smaller Pan America being launched.
On the positive the Pan America which I have purchased is doing well and well received in the UK.
And the new Revolution Max engine is a masterpiece and should be in more models!
Thanks for the input. I'm glad you like the Pan Am. That bike is proof that Harley can compete on an even footing with other brands. Let's hope they do more of that in the future.
@@DifferentSpokesTV a 750 Revolution Max Pan America with 90-100 Bhp would be epic with two options one with ARH and normal suspension and one with 9.5 inch full off road spec
I'd like to see HD take the European market seriously & bring back the Bronx. Their seriously fugly, overweight, underpowered and *ludicrously expensive* cruisers don't translate well across the Pond & I am p*ssed the Bronx got canned.
I was eagerly awaiting the release of the Bronx & the live wire - then 2021 happened and there was no Bronx & the live wire was $30k = I didn't purchase a HD... Make the live wire $15k and they'd fly off the dealer floors.
I'm a Harley guy I ride a Fatboy. The cvo Street glide. Or road glide is crazy expensive. I just can't afford that most people can't without having a 600 dollar a month payment
For a guy who supposedly rides a Harley you sure diss them. What's this garbage about selling inferior motorcycles. My 2021 Heritage 114 is an excellent bike. Previously, my Ultra was an excellent bike. My '86 883 Sportster has been stone reliable. Harleys are Harleys and they do "being Harleys" really well. In fact they do it much better than all the other brands who have tried. That doesn't make them an inferior product.
I visited a HD dealer last summer, and I swear they don't stop calling me. Never give them your number. HD has come a long way, but model for model, they are just not as good as the competition which costs less btw.