Is Harley Davidson losing their customers?
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Timms Harley Davidson
Anderson, SC
864-224-1531
In this video I shed some light on how the motorcycle industry works and why some guys are switching from Harley Davidson to Indian Motorcycles.
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The opinions in this video are my own and not in any way representative of Harley Davidson Motor Company or Timms Harley Davidson or any other brands or organizations.
“Get complacent… do the bare minimum…” LMAO. That’s been the Harley-Davidson motto for 50 years. The aftermarket has carried HD for the last 20 years.
I think they did a good job with their newer more "modern" motorcycles. The pan am is an excellent adv.
50 try 100 yrs
@@ziting5756I've seen a lot of pan am reliability issues in my motorcycling groups, and not even in the usual hurrdurr Harley bad ways
Are you a mechanic?
20 years 😂😂😂they’ve been carrying them since the 70s ffs
I'm a regular Joe and I went Indian for bang for my buck and I'm 200% happy....
22 Scout bobber.
Love this bike.
How would you know? You didn’t try both.
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying about the competition. We the consumers benefit the most from the competition.
Absolutely. Both in the bikes as well as pricing.
Plus, they're both American V-twin icons.
@@robertemmons2260Indian used to be American not anymore
@@talkingrock7011 Indian is owned by Polaris. Polaris is an American company. What you said makes zero sense.
@@myronmosley2167 Should be called Polaris not injun.
When you build a reliable product you don't need all those dealerships!
I have both. To be honest though. I ride my Challenger 95% of the time. The ride quality is better over my Street Glide.
just curious, why the challenger and not the chieftain?
@@emvdhout for me, I wanted something different. Glad I went that direction as I now have 25,000 miles on my Challenger and sold all the rest of my bikes. Best bike I have ever owned.
I switched over to Indian couldn’t be happier and haven’t looked back.
Which one did you get and what did you ride before?
Victory and Indian are the best thing that ever happened to a Harley enthusiast.
Victory bikes. Especially the High Ball is the best looking bike ever. I miss Victory . Rise up again :-)
All of this is irrelevant unless consumers switch. A lot of my brothers either don't know or don't care who these guys are. But in my town, there's a Harley dealership with an Indian dealership right next door. Over the past three years or so, several of my brothers were in the market for new baggers. 3 of the 5 bought an Indian. When I asked why, some said because they like them more, some said because of Harleys business practices, some gave Harley going woke as a reason, and some said they were just ready for change. However, all of them said "I got more bike for my money".
There's the bottom line. Personally, I'm giving Indian a real serious look. Had you asked me 10 years ago, I would have laughed. But, times, they are a change'n.
I feel the same way. I see them as a contender now when I didn't before. I think Indian is going all in with this push to try and get their product in front of people. As far as the guys I mentioned, the people that do know them know they rode HD and now they don't and I think that was Indians goal.
@throttleblip9854
The moment you had said, "IMC was paying people, not racers, to switch brands"...I had to stop the video. EVRY motorcycle company out there has paid racers to ride, develop, and/or promote their bikes. Ford, GM, and Ram has done this time and time again. You almost come off like Matt Laidlaw's whiny ass. Almost.
You won’t regret it…they are great bikes. Love my Scout.
I can only imagine how narrow and filled with hate your life just be if the Harley Davidson lifestyle is too woke for yoy
I still think Polaris made a mistake dropping the Victory brand and went full throttle with Indian.
As soon as you said "This is why we need this" I knew exactly where you were going. Excellent point and I'm 100% with you. Competition forces companies to step up.
Love the approach. And I agree that great competition is required in order to keep HD honest. Polaris is the best thing that ever happened to Indian.
I only wished they kept the Victory Line up alive. But they went ALL IN on Indian and I gotta admit they are bringing it. The Harley experience is like gettin arse raped with no grease. Sooooooo, All the Harley nutz that wanna rag on Indian, all I can say is this; Harley has got to do better or die off. Simple.
Club members are leaving Harley. Definitely not being paid to. Mostly because Harley has alienated the customer base.
I've seen a few 1% guys on BMW and Goldwings. I think the days of buy a Harley just to have a Harley are coming to an end. Consumers want the best bang for their buck.
Club members are the ones that will specifically not leave Harley lol wtf are you talking about? 😂
Everyone talking about dealer network, here's a little story. In my town (population 1.5 million), there WERE 2 HD dealers. The corporate dealer got the mom n pop dealer shut down. So now, there is only one place in town to take your HD for warranty service. Oh, but the corporate palace wasn't done there. They are now trying to get every dealer within a 3 hour drive of the city shut down, too. Whereas 3 years ago, there was one Indian dealer, now there are 2 dealers selling new Indian bikes, and 3 that will service them. When the time comes for me to buy a new bike, i can guarantee it will not be an HD.
Thanks for your review. Your analysis is spot on.
I have loved HD Motorcycles ever since I started to walk. I've owned several brands and types of bikes throughout my life. Then, twenty years ago, I had stopped riding altogether.
Fast forward to August of last year.
I was going through a rough time last year, with a divorce in process and the death of my oldest granddaughter. My ex brother-in-law had recommended the Indian FTR to me because that's the type of bike that he thought that I should get. Instead, I had bought an Indian Scout ABS Black Metallic. I absolutely loved the bike, but I had felt that it wasn't enough bike for longer rides. So, I had traded it in for a 2017 Indian Chieftain Limited. I have ridden it every day ever since the snow had thawed enough here in North East Utah to ride.
I chose Indian Motorcycless because not everyone has one. Unfortunately, you are correct on the dealer network. I have a Harley dealership just a couple miles away from me here in Vernal Utah, but my closest Indian dealership is 2.5 hours away. But, I'm willing to travel that far in order to have work or maintenance performed on my bike.
I don't need an influencer to tell me what I should or shouldn't ride, I choose my own path, and Indian Motorcycles is the path I chose to explore the open roads.
People like you are the ones keeping Indian alive. You’re willing to do what most people aren’t. 1 being to be different and 2 willing to travel to the dealership. It’s going to take people like you doing that to give them what they need to expand.
My Indian dealership only 20 min away from me
The lack of dealer network and support just drove me to purchase more tools and learn to wrench on my own bikes. I have a '16 Springfield (30k miles) I rebuilt from a collision with a deer at 70mph and a '21 Roadmaster (40k miles). I do all my own work and never have to worry about somebody else not doing it right. I also have trust issues with technicians though... Ha😄
I've owned both,I liked the Indian but I Loved my Harley it just fit my vibe and moved my soul...One man's humble assessment
Amen dude
I agree. The Indian just doesn’t do it for me.
Yeah bro Indian just will never be it.
I don’t even care if they release a UFO next year.
Same. I wanted to like the idea of riding Indian, but my heart calls for HD.
From what I gather from folks. “Soul” just means you fell for the marketing.
My partner and I rented Harleys and rode all the way around Florida including down in the keys and back, a good 1,000 miles over a week. I rode a Street Glide, she rode a Heritage Classic. The bikes rode like farm tractors. Gearboxes were clunky, and finding neutral was annoying. (We've both been riding a long time). When we returned to Canada, we then looked at Harleys and Indians. We ended up both buying an Indian Chieftain Darkhorse each. Better ride comfort, silky gearbox, fabulous styling, lots of torque and speed. Couldn't be happier. Will never buy a Harley.
Harley Davidson had some fantastic ideas and motorcycle concepts in the past. But their biggest downfall is that they are stuck in a stigmata. Everyone thinks a Harley should be "X" style and design. Air cooled, not liquid, etc. Another is that they are less refined than Indian. They had poor quality in the past and still follow them today. 3rd is they are priced a third more than most other comparable brands/ models. Granted, that affords them to have more dealerships, but the consumer doesn't see that while making a $35-40k purchase.
I bought an Indian Scout because it was mid sized cruiser, and liquid cooled for running around Phoenix 90°+ days. I was looking at a Harley, but the sales person kept pushing me for a bigger bike than I was comfortable with, and they didn't have a liquid cooled my size. What they did have was a third more momey than the Scout and half the size
I own a Harley Davidson Road King Classic. Love the bike and will have it forever. I have a 2003 Victory V92C. Love that bike too. I have a 2023 Indian pursuit dark horse premium package on order. After riding one i am gonna love that bike too. Great time to be a motorcycle rider!
A few of my brothers in my MC have already bought the Sport Chef and the Challenger bagger.
I always thought I'd buy a Road King, always. Then I rode an Indian Springfield. TO be fair, it had stage2 cams, TABs and an Arlen Ness HO filter and a dyna tune module included. What I noticed immediately is the pull and quickness the Indian had. Plus, with the shallower rake, it handles like a much smaller bike than its size would suggest. Short story, I went with the Indian and 3 years later I couldn't be happier. I still like the RK, at least the more classic version.
Indian has been making a great product for the past few years and they are stepping it up. I’m a huge Harley fanatic as everyone knows lol but I’m also a fan of Indian.
They are. I love it. I rode several of the models and not a bad thing to say. Bring that FTR Carbon to SC when you're done with it! haha
Didn’t you also get a free Indian @marvelkid87
Exactly 💯 there is room for both
Spent my life in the industry. Ran a large HD dealership, raced MX in district 18 for years. Was regional Mgr. For Suzuki when the GSX- R came out... competition improves the Breed! Now I'm going to ride my ancient Iron barrel Bullet 500.
Lol I hear ya! I'm looking at old Flat Heads as we speak. The older stuff has been speaking to me lately.
My local club was only 2 indians when I joined. Many more now. They are a better bang for the buck, and if you are close to a dealer they typically are great people. Have 2 myself, zero problems and haven't felt the need to do many mods, they are nearly perfect from the factory.
Every Harley dealership I ever walked into had gangsters /thugs and/or drug addicts working there , had 1 Harley never again
Great vlog as always🤘 I am a 20+ year Harley-Davidson rider, owner, and HOG member that switched to Indian Motorcycle. Purchased two with plans to purchase a third. For me, it was primarily the service departments at three dealerships in two different states (plus the out the door price of the bikes; NOT MSRP, which is similar) that drove me through the Indian Motorcycle doors and on to their bikes. Love and still own my THREE Harleys but it would be a VERY BIG challenge for a dealership to get me back as a customer and on a new Harley-Davidson motorcycle again🤷♂ Indian Motorcycle (FOR ME) has the AMERICAN heritage of an ICONIC brand, quality, performance, aesthetics, and customer service that has made me a return customer with no plans to change to another brand (MAYBE a KTM Duke 890😎). Again great VLOG as always!!!🤘👊
At an overlook on the Blue Ridge Parkway, needed a drink, parked next to an Indian cruiser. Had the tassels and all that. I said, "beautiful bike", and he complimented mine. After about 3 minutes of dialogue talking about our bikes, he said "Switching to Indian from Harley was the best thing I've done in years." And then he proceeds to glow about the Indian as compared to the HD. I think people are switching because Harley is pricing themselves out of the market for new riders, and their older customers are aging out.
Moved on from Harley to Kawasaki of all things. The Versys had a windshield, hard bags, and a 650 twin that just got the job done.
I just "switched"... Owned a harley but was in market for another. When comparing the two Indian just offered way more than Harley. If I bought the Harley it would have needed another 10-15k just to bring it to the level Indian offered. Pulled the trigger which wasn't easy but now owning an Indian I am shocked at how much better the build quality is, I never knew because I just assumed Harley was the best. They are losing customers for sure and Indian is getting better with each release. Harley needs to step their game
Congrats on your new Polaris
@@jacquesduplessis6310 If he would have bought a Harley would you congratulate him on his new AMF piece of dog sh- t
@@jacquesduplessis6310Dosnt matter u can try and dog Indian but they will whip anything Harley makes with ease it’s better bikes overall I’ve had both
@jacquesduplessis6310 nice try at flexing, but you're essentially admitting that Polaris makes a better bike than Harley 😂
@@NicePantsLance
Must be American? Look up the meaning of flexing Ass.
As a proud owner of a stunning 2019 Indian Springfield in steel gray and burgundy metallic, I can attest, Cruiser Heaven, all day, every day!
A very objective presentation. Well done. I was HD all the way, now I am hard core Indian since 2016. I say ride what ya like! It's all good! 😊
I’m a huge fan of Harley but I admit I did check out Indian this past weekend and demoed the Challenger DarkHorse and actually really liked it. I have a 22 Road Glide ST, on my channel, and just checking out the competition. Absolutely see why people like them. Good video, brother!!!
Harley stopped making the Dyna so Indian is taking over the Dyna Bro market.
The average rider does not now who most of these people are.
Cost and dealer markups are what is driving people away from Harley.
In my area you are not riding out on a new Harley for under $20k. Doesn't matter what model it is, after markups they at 20k
I wouldn’t say they are taking over that or any market. But they are trying to get their bikes in front of those crowds for sure.
Harley definitely needs a GOOD bike that riders can leave the dealerships with for 10k. I hope people stop giving money to dealerships that overcharge.
Dyna bros are part of the problem.
Harley can’t keep making the same old fashioned bikes. They need to evolve.
The new m8 softail is better than the dyna. Dyna bros hear “softail” and are upset. It’s not the old softail.
Just throwing on dual shocks/springs doesn’t make it a dyna.
@@TeensierPython You're right they need to but at the same time you don't piss off the people who kept you in business for the past 40 years. I'm a Dyna guy and absolutely don't like anything that Harley has put out since 2018.
@@throttleblip9854 Maybe you should be employed by HD and work for minimum wage. That should get the price down
@@martincvitkovich724Harley workers other than reception and maintenance get paid commission only
My local Harley dealer just wants to sell new bikes and t-shirts. Service is simply atrocious. Last time had an electrical short, charged $700 for new fuel pump, excetera and after 3 months during the summer found the loose electrial wire. Filed a complaint with Better Buisness and the didn't deny it and didn't return my money. Said they would send a $500 gift card, called two weeks later and said they forgot. I'm in my mid-sixties and was planning on a trike. Now I figure that when the Extra Glide hits 100,000 miles in a couple of years I'll give it to one of my boys to rebuild and buy any other brand.
I have been riding bikes since I was kid, started in the dirt and then moved to the street Rode sport bikes, then when I was away in Europe on a vacation I rented a bike (Honda ADV) that I never thought I would ride. Toured the whole country and was hooked on long haul riding. Traded in my litre bike on a Ducati MTS 1260 and then finally got my Harley that I wanted since I was a kid. Yes I looked at what Indian had to offer but it wasn't a Harley. I bought a 2020 RGS and absolutely love this bike!
So, you "looked", but didn't "ride"? BIG mistake!
It's because Harley Davidson don't want their customers to work on their own bikes, HD FORCES you to do work at your local dealer because they have EXCLUSIVE rights to the ELECTRONIC TOOL BOX and if you need to do ANYTHING ELECTRICAL on an electronic EVERYTHING bike..Wait till your body module goes out and you need a 5K$ tool to FLASH IT when ANYONE can install the part in 30 minutes but Harley wants 200$ to do 15 minutes worth of work...I think this is against the law by the way..
Re 5:10 - basic economics of “competition is good for the customer” explained.
Harley lost me when they killed the Dyna line. When I start my Dyna I know I'm on something special. The way it sounds, vibrates, and how it rides. Harley has completely lost that feeling with these new models. You have to purchase a CVO to get the same benefits and features that you can get on a Indian that cost around $25,000 less. The low rider s would be a great bike if it wasn't priced where it's at. I can get an Indian chief sport for almost the same price and all I gotta do is throw exhaust on it and tune it. The low rider I have to change the bars, the seat, the exhaust etc.. Lots of people have switched over to Indian because right now they are the best bang for the buck with what you get right off the showroom floor.
I always hear people say that "Harley has more dealership networks", In my opinion if you build a reliable well built bike, you won't need so many dealerships. Harley dealerships make most of their money in their parts and service departments.
The reason I have seen is Indian offers more for your money. A simple example is I just got an out the door price for a vivid black sport glide standard at $27599. For that same price I could go to Indian and get a top tier model instead of a standard. The prices I talk about are Washington State.
Absolute joy ive had with my twin cam dynas but the ride quality of my chieftain compared to my previous m8 road king is night and day due to lack of suspension travel on the hd. Theyre both great brands. I just dont feel great about the m8 reliability vs the thunderstroke. Wether or not its superstition or what.. im just more confident reliability-wise with a polaris product.
A mechanic friend of mine says their ATV's are junk. He hates to work on them.
@@nickb3099 ATVs are like small cars in complexity. I'm a mechanic and have no use for them.
I've owned a Road King.... I loved it. I now have a roadmaster. I get frustrated frequently. Harley has one thumbbolt holding the seat down. Gravity does the rest. Indian has two side bolts and a tail bolt that can't be reached without pulling off the tourpak. I replaced it with a hex head instead of an allen head. I broke the blinker switch and had to replace the whole housing. I had to pull off the lowers due to EXCESSIVE heat. Saddle bags don't open as easily while sitting on the bike. The tour pack opens forward, so the passenger has to dismount. Indian motorcycle shops aren't as motorcycle exclusive as HD. Good points for the Indian roadmaster: better visibility than an ultra. The radio and the monoshock ride are phenomenally better than HD. Disclaimer: I just finished 2000 miles. Maybe it'll get better.
Exactly. Indian doesn't have the same network Harley has. Independent shops have Harley mechanics. Aftermarket parts.
As far as these high dollar builds, it's not for the average rider. We have to work piecemeal to get half what these high dollar builds have. I can't afford a custom stage 4 with custom paint and parts. I don't smoke a tire or do wheelies. I will ride on long trips and baby what i have. Do required maintenance.
If they want to give me a $130k custom tire scorcher, by all means. Until then, I'm an average rider with limited funds that can still have a good time on my Harleys.
Yes, totally agree. No one improves without being humbled here and there.
I own a 2021 UL. I really like the competition. It keeps other manufacturers honest and pushes them not to sit back and rely on their name.
I think Harley does not offer the most for the buck right now when Indian makes a performance bagger out of the box. Polaris cut their teeth on Victory. The dealer network for Indian is small just like every other motor sports company because they do not need all of the dealers.
Even in Europe things are changing, with Harley being considered a status symbol in Eastern Europe and while it still has that status Indian moving production for Europe to Poland in 2019 has started having an effect on sales of HD
Indian has two models that sell very quickly in used market. The Challenger and the FTR.
As someone who's shopped for the FTR in the used market I can confirm that one. They also seem to hold value pretty well. Indian nailed it with that bike both with the appearance and performance.
The dealer network to me is the biggest hitch Indian has. They have a good product.
Had a 20 Challenger dark horse in bronze, for a first gen, not bad, 21 bikes in 14 years and the Roadglide is my fav, waiting for 2nd gen Challenger, Harley dealer in town got bought out and moved out we do have at least a Indian dealer, and I live just south of Milwaukee Wi, I love the competition, hopefully Buell gets in the mix, already got my money down on the super cruiser
Everything and everybody nowadays are bought and paid for. I do agree that Indian needs to be here to keep Harley up on their game. Just found your channel. Good stuff man 🤙🏼
I switched to Indian saved more than 10k for a much better bike and as for Harley the dealership have been beyond terrible and they don’t care. As far as location for Indian it’s more than worth it and as far as parts it’s starting to explode
The truth is 80% of HD parts are sourced overseas and many of these contractors subcontract those parts from China .
Assembled in USA doesn't mean they are made in the USA.
Does this piss you off too?
Not even a little. Love my Harley. My Ram TRX has parts made in Mexico and I love that. I also own a few Honda motorcycles and vehicles. I don't care where it's made or where parts come from if the end product is solid.
I was going with an Indian but two dealerships had sales people that lacked motivation. I walked into Harley, picked out my bike, and was riding it the next day. Sales guy was the best. The after sale was impressive too. Called me a few times to make sure I was happy.
Yea Right
Give it a few months, you will see those same people when the built in failures of the bike have it in the shop, Harley sucks, and if you need ten mechanical reasons I will be glad to share. My friend is a mechanic there and he rides a Yamaha that should tell you all you need to know
@@donlord794you don’t know nothing man
The Milwaukee 8’s have been great if you treat them right
Great video Blair. Look no further for an example than the Jeep Wrangler/Ford Bronco situation. Jeep Wrangler owned the 4 x 4, SUV, doors off category for years. And Jeep got lazy. Ford did their homework when they introduced the Bronco and really hit it out of the park. Now Jeep is trying to keep up with Ford Bronco and I am the beneficiary of this battle.
I ride a 2022 HD FXLRS, in my opinion the company's best bike ever along with the ST. It's in a class of it's own and I never considered the S Chief real competition. Companies like Thrashin make sweet after market parts that improve the ride even more. I'm not a bagger guy, but that's where Indian offers serious competition with way more tech right out of the factory for less cost.
Guys are not just switching to Indian from Harley and they are not just switching because Indian is paying some high end custom bike builders to build custom parts or bikes for Indian. As an example Honda motorcycle sales overall dwarf Harley on a world wide basis in many segments of the motorcycle market and even in the US because of performance and changing rider tastes
I think it has a lot to do with the amount of HP you get from the factory . You have to spend another 5-10k to get the Harley up to 120 plus hp . ( just my opinion )
Anything Harley has done, someone else has done more reliably, cheaper, with less weight and more power. That's my biggest problem with the brand
@@tyranid05 absolutely. You buy a Harley to gut it and start over . Most call it “ making it my own “ 😂
I agree they need more dealers and I feel if harly would make a light weight more hp liquid cooled street glide or road glide it would be a top seller.
A lot of what you said is a 💯 nail on the head .
Not that you need to hear that because you know what you are talking about.
Good video.
I love the racing scene just like back in the day
Very good vid, a high level view of what the important and notable personalities are doing and why. All that is interesting as are the custom motorcycles themselves. I’ve no interest in Indian motorcycles so can’t speak to them, but as as long time motorcyclist and prior HD owner (Sportster, Electra Glide Classic, Heritage Softail Special) I can talk to my recent experience with HD and why I won’t be darkening their dealership doors ever again. It brings me no joy saying that.
I looked to purchase a ‘23 Street Glide Anniversary Heirloom model but the dealer attitude, straight faced financial raping, pillaging, and plundering, ridiculous plus pluses, on top of HD’s own arrogant adder put me out the door, north to a BMW dealer, and onto a new ‘23 R18 100 Years Anniversary edition. My brother who owns 4 HD’s, and based on the same treatment and further getting jerked around on a falsely stated trade in deal decided to walk away from a new ‘23 Breakout, standing pat with his current collection. HD and their collective BS lost two life long customers in ‘23, me forever.
I understand HD’s probably not losing sleep over BMW’s R18 series but I found a vastly superior, extremely high quality product with, in my case, a superlative dealer/purchasing experience 100% better than the 2 local HD dealers which I had solid history. I was treated professionally and with dignity and respect, the contrast was stark and startling. HD is putting themselves to sleep by their own hands with absurd pricing and arrogant dealer attitudes for bikes that offer almost nothing new beyond different graphics and colors. Bikes are stacking up unsold, employees are being laid off or furloughed, yet they continue to play their misguided games with customers in a saturated market. I won’t say their gig is up and truthfully hope it never is, but one cannot ignore the fact that if this happened to my brother and I it’s happening to many others which is far worse then celebrities switching brands for dollars. I found that proverbial “better” mouse trap and am not looking back. Thanks for the entertaining content and continued hard work. Ride long, hard, and safe. Ciao.
Looking at selling my 2018 Sport Glide because of HD dealership BS, and stupid money for T shirts when I'm advertising for THEM, and a R18 is looking REALLY good right about now, not sure if I want the Bagger or Classic. I have test ridden the Classic, and i feel the two jugs to the side is a totally different experience riding. More than enough of everything I need from the bike, just want some better colors to come out.
So you allowed one Dealership who were complete Assholes instead of going to another store That my friend could happen anywhere
@@robw3761 in my long winded comment I mentioned 2 dealerships that between my brother and I we purchased 9 HD’s in total. Greed has taken hold and at the prices charged the bike aren’t worth it, to us anyway. No where did I say all HD dealerships are bad, just the two within 52 miles of out homes, a long enough trip. This was our experience of course and at my age I vote with my dollars and I vote no joy for HD. As noted I like HD’s bikes and would have enjoyed landing that Street Glide, but fortunately for me the BMW is a superior bike in every measurable way. Unless of course you can’t live without the classic potato potato potato signature exhaust. I can as where I live there are literally millions of them, actually can’t sleep with the windows open for the continual absurdly loud sound drubbing my family and I are subjected to. I hope HD reads these comments and does something about it, perhaps they implement some changes and will be around long after I’m gone. Be well and safe out there. Ciao.
I love how company’s always give free stuff to only the people that can really afford to pay for it
Thanks for posting. Spot on on Indian dealership network compared to HD - same down under.
When you make a more reliable bike, you don't NEED a dealer on every corner.
Within an hour I can get to two Indian dealerships.. However, I can get to I think 5 HD dealerships? I think both companies are cranking out good stuff right now.
Hd acted like they were going to give bikes to independent RUclipsrs, then went straight celebrity with it. Kinda soured me to them.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person that realizes there's more than 2 motorcycle companies.
I’ve been a Harley Davidson fan as long as I can remember,I remember seeing bikers on nothing but Harleys and inked up,now I’m one of those guys,Harley forever for me
Thank you for being so Honest
My question to you Harley guys is...
Why is aftermarket such a strong argument, when you're essentially admitting that Harley sells you a bike that requires customizing? Basically what many of you are saying is "Harley makes the better bike...so thats why i swapped out all the parts and put different ones on" 🤔
If its the better bike, wouldn't it need the bare minimum customization to make it ideal for you?
Next question is, why is dealer quantity and location an argument? If the motorcycle was reliable, why would dealer location even be a factor? You're basically saying "when you own a Harley, you're gonna NEED dealers nearby". If service intervals are followed correctly, one could go literal years before even needing any service at all....so why are Harley guys so scared of not having dealers within 20 mins of their house? If one really rides the way he or she claims, then a yearly ride to a dealer 1 hour away shouldn't even be a problem. Harley guys ride farther to get a beer and burger!!
Its a strong plus that companies like Indian and Triumph are doing so well with "limited dealerships and aftermarket". When was the last time you heard someone say "yeah i liked the bike, but I just couldn't customize it as much so i sold it for a Harley" yeah, never.
Not trying to be a jerk, i literally just do not understand what the ruckus over these 2 factors is
I’m keeping my 128 130HP 150TQ Heritage Classic Bagger
No reason to get rid of it! About to do a 128 on my Softail also!
This video aged really well lol I just rhode my dyna to the Indian dealership yesterday to test ride a sport chief. Majority of there customers in the last few weeks are Harley people
I get what you’re trying to say but I think you missed the point of the video. All the “influencers” that are on Indians now rode a Harley when they had to buy the bikes. Now that they are free, the switched. Nothing against Indian they really do make some great bikes.
@@throttleblip9854 my bad man, I just finished the second half of the video. I see your point about the two brands kind of pushing each other to build better and better bikes since it is making for a competitive market. I’m just super peeved off with Harley right now and I have had Harley’s Since 18 and I’m 31 now, I have decided not to support them anymore unless some values with the company change and to me and many others it is a shame they are moving large percentage of production jobs to another country, I’m not buying a Harley that was made in Thailand.
With that said, It would be interesting if you made a part 2 of this video in a year or so when the economy hopefully starts picking back up, I’m curious if we will see a lot more Indians on the road and less Harley’s. I know a lot of Harley people are talking about Indian right now.
I was shopping the Sport Chief vs. the Low Rider S. In the end I went Low Rider S because the larger aftermarket, better dealer network, and better trade in value when I (maybe) go to a Touring model.
There's already an aftermarket for Indian motorcycles. Same for Harleys. Except, HD customers HAVE to buy upgrade kits just to make their bike compete with other Japanese and IMC bikes. Lol
Compare the sounds of the Indian scout vs the same priced sportster or nightster….Indian wins
That’s true.
I don't like anything that Indian makes. I did like the prototype FTR, but when the production version came out it was a huge letdown. I did ride one on a demo day and I was even more disappointed. Not even close to the performance I felt it should have had for the power they were claiming. It was heavy too and it nearly cooked me it was so hot. A friend of mine owned an Indian and he wasn't happy with the dealership and its service department.
Hate to hear that. My favorites were the Roadmaster bc of the suspension and power and the FTR Carbon because well, everything. Haha
I just bought a 2023 sportser s the week of july 4th. I visited several dealerships that week and spent the whole day for several days.
The street bike dealers were ghost towns like kawasaki (i was shopping a zx636) honda, yamaha, etc.
So were the Indian and Triumph dealerships.
No buzz at all.
But the HD dealers i visited were closing deals back to back. And in the end i got the deal i wanted too.
I have did a few rides on an Indian Chieftain this year. It is an absolute totally fantastic bike. Everything is right on that thing. Now I cannot compare because I did not ride a streetglide yet. This will change within a few weeks, so I can finally compare, but I do know that the streetglide must really, really be something special to get on top of that. The way it sits is already not better. Of course this is purely subjective, but the Chieftain sits perfect for me while the way I sit on the streetglide is just a little bit less comfy. To be continued ...
In the long run,how much difference does all this influencing make? What Indian bike do I like Chief Sport. It’s a nice cross between the Low Rider S and the ST. Also that central dial with multi function features raised to where you can see it.
@ThrottleBlip. prize 🏆 or not you?
Great information on marketing tactics!
Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Im 31 I actually learned to ride on a Buell Blast when I was 17 had till about 20 I bought a sporty next and have been riding Harley ever since I wrench my own bikes. I'll always be a Harley guy I stunt my bikes wheelies burnouts the rumble the sound Iconic peice of American history
🤘🏻😎💯
I've bought three brand new Harleys since 2021. The first was a 21 Heritage Classic 114. I was also looking at Scouts at this time. It was a drive to the dealership so I wanted to call ahead. Neither wanted to schedule a time for me to come in or seemed to care that I was willing to come in and make a purchase right then. Harley got that sale and was eager for it. Second was a 22 Nightster. Again I was looking at a Scout. None of the dealers had one. That was fine and I was willing to look at other bikes. Salesmen wanted to just look at stuff online and mostly wanted to discuss used bikes. Harley got that sale and was eager for it. Third was a 23 Street Glide. Same thing as the first. I wanted to make sure that four hours of my day driving was not wasted and called ahead. Harley got that sale as well. I don't think I am going to bother even trying with Indian when I look to pick up another bike in a year or two. I have not had good luck with various dealership's sales teams. I hope Indian does well and pushes Harley into a competitive development market.
The availability of the vast aftermarket for everything/anything Harley is a huge reason why they continue to be purchased over Indian. That said, Harley should tread lightly as far as "locking out" certain aftermarket options. If the choices, in particular certain performance options, become limited, then the playing field becomes quite different IMO.
Love how you weren't dogin on indian and Harley I rode a Harley I've always wanted a Indiana there both great bikes but I agree with you and I think this is going make Harley step there game up keep it up with videos great shit 🤘🤘🤘
I have done lots of research on the Indian's. They are awesome bike and look Cool AF. The biggest thing that keeps me riding and loving my Harleys is the amount of aftermarket parts and companies that make parts for the Harleys is untouched. Me personally I want to make my bikes my own with personal touches. The indians just doen have that yet. Im sure that will change in the future but for now I love my HD bikes!
The aftermarket can't compare to HD at all but there are a lot of companies making quality Indian aftermarket parts for just about anything you want. I have have personalized both of my Indians quite a bit.
@@gozap51 I hope the aftermarket explodes for Indian, I’d like to have one to add to my collection of HD’s. Very nice looking bikes
Since I bought my first Indian in 2016 the aftermarket companies have increased by a ton.
Aftermarket parts means your product is lacking.
@@harolddalesr8365 nope not at all, When I say aftermarket I’m talking custom parts to make the bike to your liking. Not everyone wants to ride around with 100 other bikes looking exactly the same. Everyone likes something different
I am an avid Harley owner since 1987.
Are they the ultimate ? Of course not.
But I like them very much.
Do I have a problem with competition from other manufacturers.
Hell no
Competition is good for everyone.
Im happy that there are now two American classic MC companies.
I sure like the FTR.
really cool bike but I bought a Pan America Special last year and I absolutely love it.
Havent had any teething issues with mine.
Still have two pushrod HD v twins as well.
Yes competition is good.
My wife had a Hellacious time trying to sell her Scout. Everyone wanted it but it took forever to sell it
What ever happened to the Softtail Classic build. Saw you start it last yeat but never saw it finished. Did you give up?
hahahah so no statistic ever. Yes Harley needs competition to not get complacent but Indian is not even blip on the chart for sales. Great video.
I got a Vulcan and all I do to it is change tires, filters, and oil. Spent more money working on a Harley in 10 years than this bike cost ! You’re just buying a name. It does everything better in my opinion, but I’m not a biker, just a man with a bike and not a lot of money.
Forbidding their dealerships from displaying the American Flag has lost me as a customer and I have had three Harleys!
OH WOW😯!! I had no idea this was a thing with Harley-Davidson. If true, then the small chance I may have returned as a customer in the future has gone from maybe to NEVER!
Where can I read about this? I haven't heard anything yet. You can buy products on HD website with the flag on them so seems odd if true.
I have an Indian FTR R Carbon. It’s so nice. Smooth. Pretty. Perfect.
Great insight. Learning a lot.
I think I could ride that Challenger, make it a real good touring bike putting some serious miles on there.
Nice video.. all good points. Thanks for all the great info!
Thanks for sharing Brother. 100% competition is good. I like HDs down low torque. I test rode 2, both great bikes, just like my HDs.
Well said!
Polaris should have did this with Victory. Great bikes at a low price point that received no marketing.
For a new bike, I'd go with Honda or Kaw. Harley and Indian are just worse versions of these lately. I'd spend maybe 10 grand and stuff a few proper old Harleys in the garage. If I wanted modern, plastic, and tech, I'll go metric, they do it better.
Bottom line reason why I chose Indian over HD? They're better designed, look better, ride better, you get more for your money. And last but not least, it's not a Harley. I think on my own and my own way. I'm not a CPA, dentist, lawyer etc. who goes out and buys a black Harley, black leather jacket, black boots, black gloves and helmet, a chain for my wallet that jingles so I can leave the office on weekends and pretend to project a fake as sht bad boy persona. Not at all into the "Harley" culture where everyone dresses up the same to play biker. Just look up on social media Harley sites, then look up Indian Motorcycle sites... yea, HD sites you'll find mindless clones with only a few true bikers. Indian Motorcycle sites have real individuals, some motorcycle enthusiasts and some hard core bikers...but no clones. Yes, Harley sold an image that myself and many other bikers and enthusiast are just not into.
I switched from Harley to Kawasaki an I love it
I have 2 Indian motorcycles, and have to agree with you 100% on the dealer network. HD isn't without bad ones, but Indian dealers seem to not only be few and far between, but good ones are even harder to find. I think a main reason for this is because the large majority of Indian dealers are also multi-brand and multi-purpose dealers. Hard to dedicate everything to the Indian sales when there are lawnmowers and ATV's there also.
Harley-Davidson needed Indian motorcycles 100yrs ago. So they could push their innovative ideas into production for the customers. History repeating itself in a good way. Hopefully this pushes Harley-Davidson to break away a little bit from the traditional side of things they been doing the past few decades and bring themselves into a new generation of customers wanting newer technological advancements with a long time brand name.
Why am I switching? Harley puts a $18k MSRP on a mid-size cruiser, but when you try to take it out the door that price is magically $25k. Ridiculous...hell, even the $18k price is ridiculous considering how little you get and how much you have to pay AFTER the initial purchase to make it actually rideable
Which Indian are you getting?
I bought a scout and couldn't be happier, when I'm ready I'm getting a chief 🤪