the “sepia bride” drama has gotten out of control - photographer reacts
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- WATCH PART 2: • “Sepia Gate” Photograp...
Let's talk about "sepia gate". Also, please do not send ANY hate to this bride or the photographer. This is simply my opinion as a wedding photographer myself.
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Watch Part 2 (photographer speaks out) ruclips.net/video/RyG3llGfezo/видео.html
I like a retro sepia look, but in the photos with a lot of green and foliage, in this case, it made it look like the plants are dying which is kind of the opposite of what you want...
I'd be so mad to have my lush location look like it was a drought year!
@@RetroMonkey1999 yeah, the filter might look good at the beach or in a ball room but if you selected a space for the greenery, it doesn't work!
Exactly what I said. You don't want to think about dead plants on your wedding day. All I could focus on was how yellow everything looked.
this is my issue too. how can anyone defend using a filter that makes all the greens and blues look dead and brown.
Sepia is a black and white process. There is no sepia in colour.
The thing I think is the fact the bride stated that it was overcast that day. If she’s doing the exact same editing for an overcast day and a sunny day, the photo is gonna look muggy in the over casted day. Yes the photographer cannot control the weather, but they can control adjusting for the weather.
Thiiiis. As a photographer I will not just copy paste my preset I’ll adjust to the lightening etc. also I will make my brides look flattering.
The day was overcast when I married. The photographer took a bit to adjust the settings in her camera and took a lot of test shots, but once she had her settings adjusted it was smooth sailings from then on. The photos looked lovely. I don't know how much editing she did afterwards, but the photos look natural and beautiful. The weather did not harm the photos in any way. Definitely looks like a skill issue on the photographer's part 🤷♀️
Casted is never a word.
@@joybodelay9679congrats you have a better vocabulary than I do. Want a metal?
Can I just say that as a photographer overcast days is one of the best situations for us, lighting wise... I can't believe the photographer couldn't get it right
Also keep in mind, when someone is seeing samples of a style, they are NOT seeing unedited day of photos so they may not realize how much a style of editing is “changing” the original colors. But also as a photographer, I’m sorry but the samples the bride showed are way too yellow. I think photographer just needed to adjust whatever preset she used for more contrast and a bit of brightening due to the over cast day, and the bride would have been happy.
As a wedding photographer myself, I completely agree with you Jessica. Yes, this woman should have dove further in to her photographer's style before agreeing to the contract. I always offer more visuals to my clients. I want them to know how everything is going to look after but with them in it.
And the photographer had a time to stand their ground too. Especially on some things that wedding clients can/will do. But realizing that your client loves the moments and the poses you've captured but doesn't like the warm tones? That's a quick and simple fix. I had a client recently ask for several photos to be made black and white (my favourite) and you bet your butt I flipped them, did a full B&W edit to them and sent them off. So they realized that in the lighting they didn't like your warm tones. So what? They love your photos anyway. Use the warm tone ones for your portfolio to show how you'd edit an overcast day. Figure out what kind of toning your client wants and send it. It's easy to re-sync just the colour grade in light room. Sync it across all the affected photos, check them over to ensure exposures and whatnot stayed the same. Boom. Bob's your uncle. I'll take my $500 (or whatever you'd charge, I'm just throwing out a number) fee to re-edit your photos and everyone is happy.
You sound so profesional and like a great creative problem solver! Like Jessica
Yess, this!
I Don't Think She wanted to pay for redits ?? 🤔🤔. I Think She Just wanted them and then raws??
This is a very popular look...de-saturated greens and warm oranges. I tend to stay away from it and I understand why she doesn't like them. I'm not a wedding photographer and this is a great explanation of why I have stayed away. Clients book photographers for the photos they see in their portfolio, so it is a little confusing why she is complaining when she got what she saw. HOWEVER, I think a happy client is priority #1 and your advice on how to work through the edit preferences is good. When I have a creative question on my edit, I will send the client a preview collage with 2-3 options side by side and let them choose. They always end up happy when I do this and I've had clients tell me that they love that and no other photographers seem to care enough to do that. I'm sure they are out there, but if you do this for your client it will make a positive impression.
I'm tired of photographers making all their photos sepia-brown. Not everyone wants their pictures to look like poo.
@@bun3867 It is a trend that will pass and people will regreat their wedding photos. Fortunately the market is massive and you can choose someone who will make them look just the way you want
@@bun3867and yet... they choose a photographer with that style. It's not like they hired them without seeing their work
But isn't the point of the video that what she got was NOT what she saw?
@@CaRlOsKoKiS Did you miss the point that even the bride understood that the sky was overcast so that the pictures *did not* turn out like the regular ones in her portfolio? She explains it in the beginning and points it out specifically on that one picture where the entire background looks like a washed out cloudy sky instead of... the sea. The bride expected the photographer to adjust to the lighting and not use the same preset that she uses for sunny days.
I do feel that the majority of people put an unfair level of expectation of the bride to be able to catch onto things that'd probably slip past any non-photographer. The best take I've seen on this is a photographer on Tiktok who pointed out that you can get acclimated to something visually, kinda like forgetting about the tint on your sunglasses after a minute. He theorized what she likely did was scroll through her feed without taking into account what things would've looked like in real life, so it was hard to tell the degree to which the colors were shifted, and the bride not focusing in on photos from similar venues probably created the expectations vs reality issues. The photographer wasn't necessarily wrong (though I still feel like she didn't handle this great) but I also don't love people talking about the bride like she was stupid for picking this photographer.
I think you’re so right, and honestly, i think the photographer doesn’t have to be so rigid. Your style as an artist is important, but you can do art your way when you’re not being paid by a client. She should be adjusting her precets for the lighting conditions and adjusting her editing for the client. Rigid is just the best word that comes to mind.
@@alicetoyou448 exactly, she was paid for this job by the client, she didn't sell her artwork. so as a service provider it's part of the job to make your client happy - within reason. as a photographer myself I think the bride wasn't being unreasonable and it only shows that the photographer might be inexperienced in adjusting her editing depending on the lighting situation. a good photographer understands colour theory and colour grading. if you don't then outsource it to a good retoucher.
The photographer WAS necessarily wrong.
@@berit5435 yeah, I think she was a good photographer (she’s catching cute moments, great expressions, and the compositions in the photos are nice) but a bad editor
@@berit5435 If she is inexperienced then she needs to give back the 8000 dollars she was paid to be a professional. No one should be charging that without the proper level of experience to deliver. I don't know if that is the case here though.
When I was getting married I made it super clear on the style of edit I wanted my pictures, gave him examples too. Then after my wedding, he sent me 3 similar styles of one of the wedding pictures and told me to pick the tone I liked the most. It all comes down to communication. So many ways it could have been handled but it seems the photographers ego was in way.
not being a negative Nelly, not sure if I can do that as a photographer. Than again, if the client is kind and not authoritative , I'll probably give in. lol
Please don't hire photographers if you don't like the photos on their website. There are so many photographers these days you can find one where you don't have to show them what you like, they will have what the like on their website. Unless your price shopping. As photographers we've been warned about price shoppers from all the photography coaches, they hire a photographer based on price not the photography and they said they are the worst clients because they ask for the most revisions, they said, the wealthy clients are the best clients and ask for the least revisions, I have found in my own photography business for this to be true too. The best paying photography clients I have, one is a fortune 500 company, they pay the total invoice in advance and never ask me to alter anything. I think it may have something to do with a marketing professional that works for the company ordering the photos from me rather than a consumer/individual. This video Jessica posted has convinced me to keep doing more B2B and less B2C photography work. Also, it makes me want to fine tune my contracts and my website even more. What a nightmare client and narcissist she was that posted that to social media just so she could get attention and likes.
That is a good tip. I no longer shoot weddings because of bridezillas, however when I did and even now as a band photographer, I struggle deciding the final style I want my photos to come across as. I do have a theme so that helps but sometimes I like to change it up/fit the scene. I usually don't message bands when I am trying to decide on two different color schemes and just wait till I figure it out in fear they will just think I should know. Now if a band came to me demanding a certain style it would be how they went about it and if it just isn't in my area I'll pass them along. I would love it however if people came with a few of my photos showing me what ones they like most. I try my best to provide the best theme to each artist at the end of the day.
@dcchavez97 If the photographer I picked felt uncertain about delivering what I wanted, he could have easily sent me on my way. Instead, he was confident in his abilities and took the initiative to send me options (which I never asked him to do) and that showed he was fully invested in delivering the look I wanted.
@@cidcharlene Yeah I agree that if it deviates from your usual style, it might not be something worth trying. But when I saw his work, it was close to what I envisioned just not quite there. Which is what prompted me to ask if it was within his capabilities. His initiative (not something I asked him to do) in showing me options to choose from was extremely appreciated as a client. And as a photographer myself, I've since incorporated a similar approach into certain projects of my own.
At first I thought maybe the photos weren't consistent with her portfolio, but after finding the photographer's instagram I actually thought her work looked pretty consistent. I think what's mainly happening is in the shots where there are some natural cool tones in the background it's helping to balance out all the sepia tones pushed into the image.
I think the photographer should have been willing to negotiate with the bride another option that wasn't just pay 4k for all the raws, but at the same time I didn't like the mentality of the bride where the photographer exists solely to please the bride. That kinda of thinking will have photographers doing a million re-edited for free.
All this being said, this is all based on the information provided from the bride and we don't really have a response from the photographer.
She said that she paid for the re-edits and was also willing to pay for the raw files. But 4k for raw photos especially when you know that your edits aren't working out for the client, is asking for too much money. And you can't shift your tones so much in wedding photos where the white dress looks like yellow. And you can see that her preset was set for photos with flash. On the flash photos you can see the dress is white even after the edit.
I mean maybe, but it also seems like this bride was a lot and was probably more toxic in private with the photographer.
I'm getting major Karen vibes with a multi-part engagement farming tiktok.
@@falconinthedive i don't get karen vibe at all. She paid 8k for the photos. And she wasn't happy about the colours that ended up after the edits. The photographer just had to made those photos look more natural and thats it. She said the photos were great, its just the editing she didn't like.
@@falconinthedive Karen has a specific meaning that we can't just slap on to every situation
@AmaraARW no but the story of crying on the phone to a small business owner and then putting her husband on when her tears weren't enough feels manipulative. Especially when she's then calmly, he'll even glibly retelling the story for tiktok in a clickbaity manner tailor meant to draw multiple impressions. The entire situation reads insincere.
I agree with you. She did choose the photographer knowing her style, but it didn't need to go this far. The photographer has a responsibility for making the photos into something the bride is happy with, and should include additional editing information in the contract too. The photography also has the responsibility of good communication and reviewing each individual picture, regardless of preset usage.
That last thing you said is 100% the issue to me--photographer was clearly being lazy about reviewing after using a preset for post-processing that didn't actually work well for the lighting that day. People keep criticizing the bride for 'not liking the style' but looking through photographer's portfolio, she's clearly capable of editing well *in that style* (whites that you can tell are white, skin tones that aren't completely flat, greenery that is green and not brown) but she didn't for these photographs.
I know special care goes into the shots you put in your portfolio, but when the bride paid for re-edits and *still* didn't get the quality advertised, that's completely on the photographer.
@@yuzu-tsuyu Even if the sepia is truly how the photographer liked it, she doesn't have to stick to her style 100% for every client. It's her responsibility to figure out what she can do to make it right. When the customer said she wanted the makeup to be more visible, she should've known to communicate the different options for that, with lowering the warmth as one option. It's crazy she didn't even consider that to be an option. Sepia can be nice but those photos are overboard
I have a sneaking suspicion that the bride has already had her re edit the photos a time or two before it even got to this point which would explain why the photographer ended up doing what she did. I honestly think there’s a lot the bride isn’t telling us but that’s just a theory
I honestly think that if she was my client I’d be perfectly fine addressing her issues. She conducted herself completely rational and gave the photographer plenty of opportunities to address the issues. I’ve certainly come across bridezillas but she was definitely not one here.
This!
Yeah, she was just a social media narcissist.
I totally agree, she even offered to pay a fee to have some edited different. I would have happily done that!
How do you know how she conducted herself? You were in the 3 way call with them yeah?
I hope you've watched the new video with the photographer herself!
I feel like the bride looked more at the photographer's follow count than she did the photography.
There's literally SO MANY photographers that could have done the style she edited the raw to look like.
THIS. Why not hire someone who edited in her preferred style to begin with?
Yup!! I said the same thing
this.
BECAUSE SHE LIKED THE FILTER WITH THE SPECIFIC LIGHTING THE PHOTOGRAPHER HAD POSTED? SHE EVEN SAID THE ONES WITH THE SAME FILTER BUT WITH DIRECT FLASH AND INDOOR WERE HER FAVOURITE
SORRY FOR CAPS MY KEYBOARD IS BROKEN:
@@pamelaclaytor9626 because she did like the style. Her point is it needs to be customized to look best under each condition, she likes the gold but just when it drowns out all other colors. Her engagement photos were done by the same photographer but the photos looked much better because the true colors still showed under the gold hue
her photos are badly edited. the color grading did not work for this particular wedding. it was her job to edit them better not for the client to art direct her. if she can't work with her own art style under different conditions than she shouldn't be a wedding photographer. i'm saying this from an artists perspective, the client is not in the wrong, this was her day and the photographer did not deliver quality. clearly, the bride ended up having a better grasp on color theory from being a makeup artist than the photographer does.
And she charges $6k+ for what looks like very amateur level work. People say bride is driven by ego, but what I see it is that photographer who should probably get their own ego in check.
Respecfully, "badly edited" is just your opinion. Plenty of people love this exact color grading, so much so that its pretty common pre-loaded filters on photo apps. Personally, I think it looks awful most of the time but I can't knock people who love it
I thought they looked pretty good tbh. Not what I would choose, but definitely not bad in any way. I thought the photographer's edits were better than the bride's for sure
@@questionnyc is not just about the color grading, the whole thing looks like the only edit it recive was the color grading, this is not the only thing you are expected to edit, for exanple, in the one that her teeth looked yellow she should have made changes
@@questionnycand your opinion isn’t valid. There are different aesthetics but some of those photos were badly edited I.e. her skin which was way too harsh in texture and underexposed in some photos.
This photographer spent so much energy fighting her client, when all she should've done was re-edit. Now this has blown up on Tik-Tok and on RUclips. I've seen other RUclipsrs making videos about this. The photographer may be unnamed, but trust me brides know who she is. All this negativity will hurt the photographer business in the long run and that is most unfortunate. If asks for and gets $8k for her work, she definitely could've afforded to outsource the editing.
Exactly
I’m wondering if the photographer so vehemently pushed back on re-editing because they’re simply not a very skilled editor. This looks like a slapdash job of applying the same preset to all the images without going in and fine tuning each individual photo, which definitely speeds up your workflow, but doesn’t hone your editing capabilities.
@@katekenn156 exactly. Good event photographer. Bad editor.
I agree, she should have just fixed them, the edit was horrible. I have a style as well but if it doesn't look good for a certain situation I change it. Simple
I had a bride once reject me because i do natural editing and every wedding looks different depending on the day. She wanted a more cohesive look (aka presets). This is exactly why i don't do presets :)))
Love this perspective! I was siding with the wedding photographer, but now you got me thinking. I’m not a photographer, I’m a writer, and it is a HUGE challenge to not impose my style on my clients. Some people can be pretty abrasive in their feedback, but it’s still feedback, and something to work with. I’m not losing out in any way by delivering what the client wants, so I incorporate it and then go rant on a private blog or something. Though I think this bride struck the photographer where it really, really hurts- she shamed her style, even called it lazy!- and I feel really bad for the photographer, I think she should’ve just made the edits and be done with it. Not exactly on the bride’s side either, I don’t think we’re seeing the conversation play out like she’s describing...
When I heard the bride describe this situation, I keep thinking she's being so generous to the photographer when the pictures actually look awful. She paid so much money for pictures that don't capture her. What sucks more is the photographer unwilling to give even an inch, that is why photographer is being shamed. Not just for bad editing but handling this so poorly, when as a business owner should want to please a client.
@@Megabot_6000 maybe I’m biased, but this is the kind of stunt I’ve had some clients pull. Like, changing their tastes back and forth, blaming their indecision on others, stretching it out and keeping you guessing till you’re tearing your hair out, then finally goading you into an ultimatum. Something about the way this bride is telling her part feels off to me- but then, I have no way of proving it, it’s just my feeling, so it could be my prejudice speaking, and you may be the one who’s right :)
@@ful20I totally agree with you! The bride ordered sepia photographs, she got sepia photographs... And it's the photographer's fault? Make it make sense! 🤷♀️ And I have no bias I'm a bride, looking for a photographer.
I appreciate hearing about this from a photographer's point of view. I think I was leaning toward "siding with" the photographer until I heard more about the process and how easy it would be to walk a bride through retouch options.
Whoa, okay! Only got through the Part 1 before I have to relate. I had a photographer do the same sort of edit to my photos before. The thing was, I had worked with this photographer before and LOVED the previous pics from them. After emailing them about my concerns, we settled in the middle. Unfortunately, their style had changed from the last time I booked them and I didn't care for how it looked (same concern, desaturated greens and whites far too warm for me, especially considering the outfit was all cool tones and I am a super pale person). I understand that this was now their style, but I had booked them based on past experiences. They are a phenomenal photographer and they are able to capture moments so well.
We chatted, she softened the styling a bit, but didn't want to change it too much. I am not a very pushy person and hate appearing as such, so I honestly gave up. They were better and that was enough. What I learned from this experience is that with future Photographers, I will provide a moodboard for them to reference prior to the shoot. If they don't think the style matches their preferences, we can determine that we're not a fit BEFORE the shoot.
Woo! Feels good to get that off my chest. Again, they are super talented and very nice to work with. However, I think we all sometimes need to step back and recognize when our paths have diverged. Sometimes it happens, we move on. The thing about art is that it's subjective and it's on us to find people who share our visions!
I feel ya on the "I'm pale and cool toned" thing. I'd have hated it if my photographer had decided to warm me and my photos up because yellow undertones wouldn't look natural on me. "Why did you make me golden? I'm not golden!"
I think it wouldn't kill the photographer's artistic vision to do an edit that the client likes. The photographer can still use the edit they like most in their portfolio. For the client is an emotional occasion and the photographer should work to make it a happy memory. Jessica's take is more than reasonable.
The "It's my editing style" narrative could have worked only if she would have delivered the quality advertised on her page.
Is she famous enough for the "it's my style and I'm not changing it" to hold water? You wouldn't hire someone who's famous *for their style* then be mad that they used their style. But if someone's got a modestly large following but not highly famous, I can see how someone might hire a person thinking "they'll do it my way because I'm the client". You only get to claim that your artistic vision is more important than the client's desires if you've earned the right
@@birdyfeederz7940 i'm with the photographer on this one though.
Her page is the portfolio images. The bridezilla is showing the worst of the random wedding!
@@hautehussey yes, later in this drama timeline I have found out there were 2500 images sent. the client was.. kinda evil now that i've seen both sides talking :)
I would have personally re-edited the photos for sure if she wasn’t happy. However, the client went a little too crazy with this going viral and now scaring people to not trust their photographer and making photographers scared to work with people now. I don’t think I’ve seen the photographer post anything about this, so I’m curious to know her side of the story
This! We've heard only the bride and even though her story seems credible, she might have changed a thing or two to look better. I wish we can hear the other side too, just for the nuance.
When the bride said “you’re not going to make sure that she’s happy” and “I didn’t know I was going to be working with someone who didn’t make sure the bride was happy at the end of the day” major bridezilla alarm bells were going off in my head. I actually wonder what the photographer’s experience was shooting this bride all day.
@jensing89, but that's the point to pay for a service. Be happy at the end with the result. And as supplier that should be the goal, if you go to a restaurant you want to be happy at the end, with service, place, price.
i would ofc also love to hear the other side as well, but even if the bride truly were a difficult client, this is the result of an issue not being properly de-escalated.
if ur offering a service, u r bound to get clients u won't agree with but that's part of business, so u gotta have people skills, risk assessment, and future thinking, especially if it's ur name on the line.
the middle ground option of paying a fee for re-edits seem reasonable and i would have taken that because not doing so would result to more trouble for my business. especially in the wedding industry where brides value other brides' opinions. keeping ur name sparkling should be priority number 1.
u know when a customer is unhappy, especially if they are directly telling u. and u should know the next step after that is that they WILL leave a negative review and u can't control how that spreads. so u gotta listen and pay attention the moment they are raising a concern to u and resolve it there.
@@jensing89Look, bridezilla is too much. She clearly said that her photographer was great at taking the pictures. That she even liked the photos taken with the flash. She was just unhappy with rest of the edit. You can't make wedding dress look yellowish.
not a photographer but a ghost writer, and i dont understand the "That's my style" excuse. if the revision request was wildly unreasonable, probably. but i didn't think the bride's requests were.
u r offering a service, i think artists forget that. clients are not paying u to make ur own art, they are paying u to make art for them. so working with the client and making sure they r happy with the final output is 100% priority.
30 days to raise their issue is the only thing i would have pushed back on, but if they were willing to pay a fee and agree that I'd have to find a schedule for it since i have other clients already scheduled, i would have 100% worked with them on it.
i dont understand why u would put ur own wants and preferences over your clients'. if u want to make art, don't be for hire
That's the difference. The portfolio is what differentiates other photographers. If you say YES to that they won't r edit as per contract 💁🏼
My wedding photographer used a light preset on every one of my photos. My tan Egyptian skin was so pale and my Irish husband looked like a ghost! I, of course, didn't say anything. Luckily I have Photoshop and edited about 70 photos to bring color back to our photos. I think they looked nice after I edited them - but pretty disappointed that I had to go back and edit them myself.
I'm a wedding and portrait photographer, and it is vitally important for me to meet the couple's expectations at the very least. I provide a private gallery to view the image previews and discuss any changes or adjustments if required. Once the images have been edited, they are uploaded for the couple to sign off on the edits. Rightly or wrongly, I work hard to manage expectations, and this goes a long way towards organic referrals. My personal point of view is that in photography, you will quickly earn a reputation as a result of your work, so you have to be what you want your reputation to be 🌻
4:46 I want to also say that a preset helps tie all of the photos together. I don’t necessarily want a picture where the blues are very enhance versus a picture that’s very neutral and minimal and then another photo that is very vibrant and almost over saturated. A preset helps tie them all together so that they all feel like one event, beautiful day, and not just a horror show of editing different styles
I only take photographs (screenshots) of my sims, and I was going to comment the same, I like giving them a kind of cohesive feeling, that they're all a set vibe. That doesn't mean that every time I use that preset it doesn't need adjusting in order to fit the set of screenshots I'm working on.... 😶😶 tbh, I'm merely a sims player and I feel like a professional photographer should have put in a bit more effort than I would have for my pixel people, so I feel very much on the brides side.
@@madalynnmccarron4590 I agree and I am all a fellow Simmer so I totally understand lol. I’m torn because I see both sides of the story but ultimately the bride was more right than the photographer. It just feels like the photographer jumped too quickly into defense rather than working with the bride to get the perfect photos.
I expected a bridezilla story, but after seeing the photos she does have a point. They look good initially, but after a while they start to look like faded film photos from thirty years ago. Honestly, I never thought tinting would be a factor in wedding photography. Yes, some adjustments are necessary but these changes are an artistic style. Perhaps natural photography should be the standard and the stylistic ones are an add-on. The photos by the ocean are problematic because the ocean location was deliberate, yet the ocean is almost wiped out.
As a professional photographer, that photographer is wrong. That photographer has to eat her own words because the videographer and the photographer's color grade and look from the rehearsal does not match from the day of the wedding. So the Client has clear proof and comparison. Also as a photographer myself, I know and understand about the "Pride" that we photographers have when it comes to our work. BUT. We all need to remember and humble ourselves that in this world/industry, when it comes to art, everything is SUBJECTIVE, not objective. When you start as an artist, what is "Good" depends on taste. It's not mathematical or scientific. BUT, when you turn your art into a business and you start to charge people, you turn something subjective into OBJECTIVE. The best comparison is like opening a 5 star restaurant. If you know you serve good food, and a customer doesn't like the food after eating it, they aren't asking you to re-adjust your entire menu, you as the chef adjust the food and remake it for that particular customer. You have to remember to separate yourself as an artist and think more like a businessman/woman. You can not treat it like an art gallery, where you have a price on a piece of work, then a client buys it, and if they were to say "hey i bought this artwork, but I don't like the color you used, can you remake it?" Of course that would be ridiculous. That being said, when you are a photographer, and a client doesn't like your edit after you shoot, you shouldn't respond like this photographer had said "you knew my work and style before you hired me!" Yes although that may be true, that only applies to the clients you shot before, people are different, look different, you can't apply you style to all events or situations if you plan to continue in the business of professional client based photography. PS: Jessica, I've been following your youtube forever, you do great work, stay adorable and professional. Follow me back on INSTAGRAM! PEACE!!!!
As a starting photographer myself, what I also think is going wrong is that on instagram you usually don't see the before and after. I also like those galleries with very similar styles and colors. but whenever I follow a tutorial or use a bought preset, I see how much color gets lost from the original pictures. it is normal that there is a difference between how you remember the day and this type of editing. which is personally not what I like or would choose for.
for this specific case, we also only hear the brides side, so I am curious what happened behind the scenes. seems like the photograpger tried to resolve it.
I did like your tip of providing the pictures with very minimal editing!
good video, thanks :)
I looked at the photographers page and the photos def match her style but it def seemed like she just added the preset and called it good which like u said a lot of photographers do. I agree with everything you said.
I don't do photography but I do posters and graphics and stuff. And what you said at the end is exactly what I have learned to do when dealing with clients. I'll send them rough drafts or even my inspo pics and let them decide before I do a whole graphic and have to start from scratch again. I've learned that the hard way. Plus in my contract now, they are allowed two (free) edits to the final product. They have to pay a percentage if it goes on to 3 or more. I learned that the hard way too.
This is an unfortunate situation, and the photographer as a professional should have handled it better. She basically destroyed a whole possible referral chain.
If I hired a photographer for their touch-of-warmth style with clear facial features, and ended up with dehydrated-piss-yellow with eyes as black holes, then I TOO would be upset. They are NOT the same. 🤷♀️ I'm not a pro, but I also know that a Lightroom filter preset doesn't work for all lighting situations!! The photographer needed to turn the yellow down, not red up, as you said.
I totally agree with you. Client satisfaction is the most important part of our job, and of course if someone is totally unreasonable you have to set your boundaries. But when someone is telling you they are not happy, crying on the phone, you want to at least seem willing to find a solution you are both happy with.
I personally think $4000 dollars for the raws is outrageous. I'm a wedding photographer in the Netherlands though and here wedding photography is lower priced than the US in general.
But again if you know someone isn't happy with their photo's, I would put my ego aside and do everything that is reasonably possible to make it work for them!
Sure will do the same, and have done for several clients but not for the crazy clients. 😅
I feel like they said $4,000 for the raws because they wanted to be petty towards the bride for not liking her work.
@@IRequiem26 we don’t know the whole situation so I don’t want to make assumptions about the photographer in question. But I think in general we have decided as an industry that sending raws to clients is unthinkable, which I just think is silly. I don’t send out my raws generally speaking, and I hate it when clients ask to get all the raws of the entire day, because selecting which photo’s to showcase and not is a big creative decision in my opinion.
But in this case the client suggested an air tight contract to not ruin her brand, and the bride was clearly capable of doing a decent edit. Sending over the raws you as a photographer have selected would be fine imo, with such a contract.
And we act like raws are rare diamonds, but we did shot them already anyways and we will throw them out eventually. If you know it would make someone so much happier about their wedding photos and they are willing to pay $1000, to do all the work themselves… that sounds like a fair deal to me.
One of the main reasons I stay away from Wedding photography but as the client not being satisfied by the photographer and the photog not willing to go above and beyond for a client that paid 8k for photos is selfish on photogs end.
I looked at the photographer’s IG and it’s VERY WARM and yellow through and through. Photographer should’ve just made this person happy though with light editing with a collaborative approach
The RAW and edits to me show a serious disconnect between reality and the bride. When the leaves look very muted and autumnal in the raws versus green in the edits something is definitely off. I wonder what the white balance settings were. Also, while raw files are flat, it's easy to over edit them make the final jpg look hideous (speaking from experience).
When there is a client involved they will have the final say whether I like it or not. Though we are only getting one side of the story in this case.
What is off is you got it other way around 😅.
Wrong way
I get what the bride is saying about the fact that she doesn't look like herself at the pictures. The brightnes and color of her hair and skin are much much closer to each other than in real life. There is much less contrast around her face. And it does make her look very different. My hair always come out different color when I am editing photos to the point that I sometimes need to edit it's color separately. If my wedding photos would come and i have orange-red colored hair instead of deep pink (which tends to happen with 99% of presets i see in apps for example) I would want a different edit as well. But since i know it is an issue I would tell in advance of course, while the bride had no idea her photos can come out like that.
I always check in with the client after I post previews. The last thing I want to do is edit alllll of the photos only to find out later that they didn’t like them. I know there are definitely some clients that will just never be happy, but that isn’t what happened here imo. It’s also bad for business to be unwilling to work with your client. That bride is never going to use that photographer again, and she certainly isn’t going to refer her to anyone else.
Thank you for having a normal reaction about this. I truly thought I was going insane hearing everybody side with the photographer because "that is her style" while also admitting the photos looked bad. I really don't understand the point of going SO far into sepia tone where you can't even see the eye color, leaves, or ocean.
I am a photographer. To me, it looks like the photographer tried very hard to stick to one color scheme and style, regardless of whether it would work in a specific set of photos.
By the way, a fantastic tip is to send the couple one edited photo in different versions so that they can choose what they like best.
Something similar happened to me too. I haven't fought as she did so I actually don't have single photo from my wedding. I got married in 2022 and I wanted to be beautiful bride. I lost 30kg (from 90kg to 60kg) and he managed to make me look like I haven't lost a single pound... Every single photo is shot in a angle. I mean every single one - group photos? and you stand on the left? well too bad you don't need legs. Gothic architecture all around us? nope! angle it is! I don't have single photo where my dress would be shown in full length. I cry every time my family asks when can I send them photos - I just don't have any. And it's not like I can shoot more..
Jessica seems to fully side with the bride. I don't quite agree with this. I think mistakes were made by both parties. I have not seen the photographer's page, but assuming that this is her style of editing (not saying I like it!) this is what the client should have expected. I don't think as a photographer you should have to bend over backward to make your client happy. Yes, this should be your aim, but it is important to have boundaries. You cannot re-edit a client's wedding multiple times if they aren't happy. However, I do think that since the client has already paid for re-edits, the photographer should have done a better job in that front. Edit one or two images, send it to the client to find out if they are happy, then continue editing the rest of the set. Sounds to me (from limited info in this video) like the client initially struggled to put her finger and articulate what exactly was bothering her. If she only told the photographer to "enhance her make up" the photographer did not necessarily understand that it was the tones that the client found problematic. This is an unfortunate situation and I feel for both the bride and the photographer.
THANK YOU!! Finally a reasonable photographer's take on this.
I love your input and advice. It is very centered and logical. I would love to know the photographer's POV tho.
This is why I don't use presets.But I agree with Jessica , now this photographer is going to be perceived as some one that's very hard to work with.
The bride clearly wants realistic tones, not stylized. For $8K, why in the world couldn't the photographer come through for her? IMO, the photographer deserves to take a hit on reputation for this very poor customer service. All that said, we have not heard the photographers point of view but in this case the client comes across very reasonable.
Totally. If anything a conversation on the style of editing before the editing could have saved all this. I've re-editied full weddings a few times even just because the bride wasn't happy with her initial choice of style. It happens. Adjust and move forward
yes presets are used and yes they look different in different lighting conditions, but damn they are super warm! like its overcast. its honestly better to stick to a classic style of editing. our taste changes over time..
I actually love your perspective on this, Jessica. The majority of the photographers in the comments on those TikTok's didn't think that the photographer should adjust her style to make the client happy but as a wedding photographer, I absolutely would. I would find an edit that she's 100% happy with by checking with her and sending different versions as you suggested, only then charge her a reasonable fee for my time re-editing the whole gallery if she needs it done fast. I think sending those few RAWs in the first place was a mistake - I would rather send unedited/minimally edited JPEGs, never RAWs so that the client never even considers asking for ALL of them.
You're absolutely right on each account, Jessica, thank you for showing us this story. To put another preset is as easy as that, it won't take a huge amount of time (I'm a photographer as well, and I do it all the time) and it won't require RAWs being sent to the client. There's no need to play a principled b*tch and make your client cry (it's not only unfair and cruel, but what if they will bring you many of their friends as clients in the future?). The situation was unnecessarily escalated. Also not every editing style goes well with the weather conditions. This preset looks like #01 of Dirty boots & Messy Hair presets collection, which is beautiful (one of my favs), but for these pictures, it's too vibrant and yellowish. Anyway, yes, the client saw the portfolio, but it's alright if they ask another editing or JPGs without any editing in case if they are utterly unhappy. A little confession: I used to send my wedding couples all unedited pictures to avoid situations like this, and all of them were extremely happy about it because no other photographers did this thing, and they could edit themselves and play with the colours as they liked)) Was it bad for me as a photographer? Not really if you ask them to put in the description that it wasn't your editing.
Sounds like the pretty bride got a pretty RAW deal. I give out my RAW photos to clients along with the edited images. To me is like handing over the negatives, back when people got their film developed at Fotomat. No big deal, doesn't cost me anything extra and it makes the client happy.... everybody happy. Why create problems where there doesn't have to be problems.
That sounds very good and reasonable. I am so confused why a photographer wouldn't send raws, do you know why?
@@ishwarilaughing6256 there’re multiple reasons, but main ones are to protect the integrity of their work or for legal reasons. Raws don’t always look great, and if a client decides to edit them themself and do a bad job, those bad edits then become a representation of the photographer’s work.
RAWS are also basically proof of copyright, so depending on the agreement between each party, it could potentially result in copyright infringement. The RAWS could also then be used in a way the photographer wouldn’t want or
agreed to, but because they essentially gave away the copyright to them, they wouldn’t be able to fight it
@@BreakofDawn but is copyright that important on someone's wedding photos?
@@ishwarilaughing6256yes. For advertising, for her insta, for the fact that…. Let’s say you make someone a beaded piece of jewelry. A painting. Are you going to ask for the beads they used loose or all of the sketches before they painted? RAWs are just that: RAW. They are not a representation of a finished product. They are also art and therefore the property of the artist. You are paying for a specific number of photos to make a cohesive album. If you want RAWs, get a new iPhone and have your friend take pix.
@@ishwarilaughing6256 This is why I don't shoot weddings, Mitzvahs, or Quinceaneras. My thing is corporate events, concerts, conferences, fashion shows etc. I also shoot business portraits/head shots, fashion, commercial both video and photo. Anything but weddings, it's way too personal for braidezillas and monster of brides or crazy frantic parents looking to sue someone. For me including everything is no big deal and is required much like when I shoot video I will often include all the raw video footage. It really takes a lot of headaches out of things plus when they see the edited video they rarely even glance at the unedited video that get to them later. Same with my photos.
Jessica! It was so cool when you popped on my feed again because I remember you from your first site in middle or high school! You're such an amazing example of dedication! So cool to see how you've honed your craft as an artist.
I love that you spoke about this because I kept seeing the photographer's side pop up on my feed. Thank you so much for your perspective!
You are the best! Your clients are lucky..you are so genuine and caring ❤❤❤
I must be the only photographer that gives out people's raw photos at no extra charge. I find photographers for us to be the weirdest entitled people to be honest. All my packages customers keep their RAWs. It's more important to me that they have creative control over their own image than me owning the photo. Without the subject the photo and opportunity wouldn't exist. I know who feeds me and who pays my bills 😂
Thank you! If you are taking pictures of me and I’m paying you… then why would you hold them hostage from the person over weird editing choices. I paid for photos please give them all to me.
I am a pro mua and I have a very good understanding for how a photographers styles affect makeup. I feel like she also should have known this as well. Her bridal makeup was clearly cool toned, and her photographer is extremely warm so this will obviously affect her makeup tones. She should have chosen a true to life photographer or even one a bit moodier which would show more of the water. I agree the photographer should have handled this better and just re done the edits to avoid this whole mess but the bride also should have known what she was getting into.
Love your comments. Photog should've taken the 1k and NDA offer. The shots are really nice. I agree that the blanket edit was a bit one note. Shame.
I'm with Jessica, sometimes pleasing a client is actually pretty dang important and I always do my best to have my brides walk away excited and happy!
Also as someone who makes art for a living when I do the custom orders for people my number 1 priority is for the client to be 100% happy whith the product I am creating, doesn't matter if I see it differently. I need client's confirmation on every step of the way. It is collaborative process, client's vision + my skills. I can't imagine sending a finished product to the client with the different color scheme that they wanted. I can't imagine sending a product that my client is unhappy with
Client's wants and needs trumps your "style" period. That poor eoman paid over $8,000 dollars for garbage editing period.
Not when the photographer is hired based on said style.
@@talesin13 Not when it doesn't match the quality because they copy-pasted a preset that doesn't work with the overcast lighting
Yea she def overpaid for those wedding photos
i've been a wedding photographer and i'm on the bride side. if you have a client that's not happy with the results because you "style" doesn't work with the actual weather conditions, you should change your edditing to make the pics look good for them. if you use a preset with yellow at 68% it doesnt mean you can't move the slide or your style is gone. we must keep in mind this are not art pieces to hang in a gallery wall, these are someone's life memories and they paid you for it, so photographer sould have offered some edition options and have some flexibitily
That’s why I edit to true colors so there’s no issues towards the end.
without brides and couples and wedding clients we wont be photographers
If you mean wedding photographers, sure, else not in agreement.
I’m going to be honest, if I’m paying like, $10k for pictures, I expect the photographer to turn around edits ON A DIME. It doesn’t have to be all of them, but she should never send raw except as a last resort. It seems overpriced and lazy.
Literally, wtf does this photographer mean it was overcast. It’s not hard to add a little bit of blue in photoshop. She accepted $8k for the job? She literally does not need to work for a month. She should make the client happy and make time for her.
Totally agree with you Jessica. I see both sides, but in the end… I’m here to make my clients happy with their photos.
The photographer is lazy. She basically just turned up the white balance and added more yellow to the whole picture. You can tell this by looking at all of the greenery behind the bride and groom that it looks like it's in the middle of fall. The photographer could have used presets to just capture the bride and groom and boost the colors on them leaving the background untouched. I'd love to see what the Photographer's webpage looks like to see what the Bride was wanting. Either way, the bride has every right to be upset, and the photographer will lose in court because she bascially has not lived up to her contract with the bride. Good luck on slander because those pics are nasty.
“..if you spoke your truth.” 😂😂 Ma’am, the truth doesn’t belong to anyone. The truth is the truth. It’s not yours, nor mine, nor his, nor hers.
Amen
"a single preset doesn't work for every photo" PREACH, YES, a 10000x's yes!!!! "you have to look at every photo and adjust individually even when batch processing" Two best lines in the entire thing Every photographer needs to hear that! I am not a wedding photographer, I am a sports and media photographer and I batch process but still look at every single photo.
I did a wedding last week and the groom told me at the start: "Pls son't make it this sepia. It's summer and we want to see this also in 10 years when we look at the photos"
Lucky for them, that's exactly my style, but I double checked everything just to make sure I don't change the colors too much. And yeah, they were super happy - and me too :D
I once shot an editorial using a fuji camera and and the client hated the fuji tones and said her iPhone pictures she took was better. Keeping the client happy, I had to re-tone the gallery to match her iphone colorspace and she seemed satisfied with that. I hadn't used any of the Fuji film emulations, just the basic setting, and this was the result of that. I don't fault the client at all, but the lesson I learned is that sometimes our creative eye is different from the client's and hard to reconcile. Thanks J for this great video!
I take so much pride in the photos I take and knowing that my client, especially the bride, was not happy with my work is quite frankly my biggest nightmare. Watching this story is very eye opening for me. I think I’ll be better prepared if this scenario ever comes up for me. Thank you for sharing.
I think that this is a complex situation, so glad to hear about this from you as we don’t hear from the Photographer involved. I think both sides have gone wrong here… Even with Instagram matching photos I don’t think the Photographer has gone exactly the way she should’ve. You can do a style but still make it look better than that. But the bride shouldn’t have done all she has on TikTok either.
I’ve been waiting for you input on this I’m ready!!
Me too!!
Me as well
My wedding photographers did not get a picture of everyone at my wedding and two people have passed since and that was the last time I saw them. :(
What’s cute for Instagram is not always going to be cute for an album or for a big print for your wall. The bride found that out the hard way
This has been the most reasonable and balanced response I’ve seen to this whole thing. It’s really great advice
This was such a useful video! I have very little experience working at weddings and I think it’s so important to learn where to draw the line in these types of cases.
Btw, I love to learn from your videos 🥹 I usually never comment but I’m always here haha
I'd be so sad to have my wedding in a lush green location and my pictures looked like it had been a drought!
I’m a commercial photographer. NEVER give the RAWS. The photographer should have offered to re-edit to solve the issue.
I think since the make up is so different in the re-edits without really changing the temp, I wonder if she imported things to photoshop where they have a new filter that adds make up from a photo. I love my presets, but yea, you go through and adjust. This photographer saying "you knew my style" seems like such a poor excuse. You can watch amazing youtube photographers praise their presets but the moment you buy'em, you realize "Oh, they're made specifically for this one situation and you have to edit more".
being a photographer myself, I understood the bride for a while and also understood what Jessica was saying about just editing the certain photos again and just adjusting the saturation or preset. But after hearing the photographer’s side of it, I no longer side with the bride like at all. There’s always two sides to every story. 8k is somewhat low for what the photographer provided. especially since it includes travel, probably a second shooter, 2k photos delivered (I take around 6 -8 hours for around 75 photos, I can’t imagine 2k 😂) , 2 days of shooting time. Like wow the photographer seems to have offered everything she could. The bride also stopped responding and decided to take it to social media. I feel terrible for the photographer
I love Lightroom! It’s one of my favorite application. I like to use some presets here & there, mostly the black & white ones. I do like playing with the other presets to see how they look on the image but I agree with you Jessica! Not all presets will look good on every image. I mean you can also continue to edit on presets too. But you have to think about the bride, she’s stressed out on their wedding day, we need to make sure she is calm & she can trust us with her special day.
I am not one for this kind of drama usually and as somebody that did wedding photography a while back I have had a couple of sticky situations in the reverse order (bride or groom being unreasonable) but your analysis of this case is a very good one and YES I agree with her and you. It wouldnt have been that hard to add some cool tones to the mix to balance the yellowish undertones... Photographer was not reasonable here. I also feel that a previous conversation should have taken place about the "must haves", I have had interviews with my to-be brides to clarify these things - do they want to keep the dress color as it is? Are they ok with a more sepia look? Do they want some black and white shots in the mix, or not really? We cant take for granted that people dont always expect the same from our wedding photos. The comparison of povs you make at 21:42 is spot on!
The main issue here is ego. The photographer is willing to sink the ship and go down with it instead of removing their ego and making the client happy.
I was working in weddings like 3 months ago... and honestly we always worked with the brides, we are expensive and obviously it takes more time to reedit but making the client happy was our main goal....
Omg ,, I’m glad she’s not my client ,, I don’t think she looked at the photographers style at all ….
I would fix them and be done with her ..
I agree with you, Jessica. I learned early on that subtle edits are the best way to go. If I play around with a filter or preset, I will also include the true color version in the final images so the client can have both options. I understand that as photographers, we are artists with a personal style, but imo these edits are far too extreme for a wedding. They cheapen the beautiful moments she captured, which is unfortunate because I agree she’s a talented photographer with the ability to compose beautiful images. For example, her edit where the bride’s eyes are dark. That was a gorgeous shot, but the editing totally ruined it. I would never give that final edit to a client. No bride wants raccoon eyes. I mean, I would think that would be a no-brainer.
I don't think we've gotten the photographer's perspective which makes me hesitant to pick one side in this case. We'll never truthfully know what was agreed upon. The bride did however mention she made the mistake of only seeing a few photos and hiring the photographer before really thinking it through. I'm also curious, would 30 days later from delivery be outside of the contracted work? I mention since for me typically I'm done editing and delivering by 3 weeks and need to follow my schedule for other clients
Such a thoughtful and reasonable analysis on this controversial internet issue. And your recommendation to provide color options + checking in for approval- Jessica your experience in the industry shows!
You made good points. We are in the customer service business. Yet we don’t know the photographers story. We assume what the bribe is saying is truthful. Is she a photographer that took the RAW files and edited them? That sounded fishy. I think people confused a persons editing style with their photography style.
As a wedding photographer I would have re-edited the pics to protect my integrity.
It's obvious that those pictures were badly edited for an $8000 wedding.
I think this photographer could do much better or pay someone to edit the pics to a much better standard.
I would not under any circumstance give out raw pictures.
Certain Makeup artists possess editing skills like colour grading and dodge and burning.
I went through hell trying to get raw only photos from a photographer. I tried to build this into the contract from the start because I professionally edit photos and wanted to process my own photos. (I also have done professional photoshoots as a photographer or second, and have had several pictures in juried gallery shows and museums.) I was happy to pay the photographer's normal price and it was still super difficult to get anyone to work with me because they wanted to control the post-processing. Don't get me wrong, I understand as an artist you don't want something going out with your name on it edited in a way that doesn't reflect your style, but it also shouldn't be this hard to make an exception. I would have given her the raws and had her sign a non-disclosure agreement.
Love your videos Jess ❤️ all the way from South Africa 🇿🇦
Written agreement should've prevented this communication from happening. Photographer is right here: "you've seen my portfolio prior to the ordering".
Agreement should prohibit the client from requesting(!) a different selection of pics, from suggesting/requesting(!) edits and from requesting anything "unedited" or "RAW".
If photographer decided any pic to be sepia or monochrome or any other edit - that should be final. On the other hand I agree with Jessica that if you want to really please the client, offering several versions is a great approach although it may require more work, you must learn how to speed-up your workflow for that.
I personally strongly dislike the style of that photographer but I still think photographer's choice should be respected and accepted as is.
Charging $4`000 or even $40`000 for RAWs is reasonable and refusal to provide RAWs is reasonable too. Also a photographer might even choose to shoot JPEG, that shouldn't be client's business.
Threats to sue are reasonable too because photographer's professional reputation suffers because of that public drama.
Having said that, I agree that pics look kinda yellowish and dark. In my personal opinion they don't even have any "filmic" look to them, they linear almost as the RAW file, and I wouldn't call that sepia, pics still look so digital to me. And the fact that the flash was used only sparingly and it was always a direct(!) flash telling me that there wasn't enough preparation. Flash must be external, supplemented with a modifier, located properly and it must be often applied even in daylight and you'd greatly benefit from having an assistant (or two) to carry your light and hold reflectors and large diffusers if there's harsh sunlight. You can't just hope that you'd be lucky with lighting conditions during the wedding and you can't trust weather forecasts. Because a wedding happens only once (hopefully).
I watched a case similar to this and the client lost in court as they were happy with the results and then changed their mind. Second opinions changed the client's mind later on. That doesn't entitle her to a refund or an exchange as the Photographer completed the work and fulfilled the contract.
Also, if the website and feed is the same as the what the Photographer delivered, the client won't win the case.
I'm only halfway in so I will edit if the story changes.
I always love this discussion videos of yours that are not ANTM reactions. Thank you!
Some of the images are actually gorgeous!!
“I’m about crying on the phone”, you: shakes head “why” 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I like hearing your opinions on things 💛
Do people not understand that the bride SAW what she wanted on the photographer's IG but that's not even what she got? The bride didn't even get the tones she hired her photographer for. She got some crappy sepia-greenish edit instead. So she didn't even get what she paid for. I don't know what the lot of you are on about. I completely stand with the bride and I'm a photographer. The photographer was on nonsense. The client is not in the wrong here. The problem with a lot of photographers is that ego tends to obstruct common sense. Essentially, wedding ain't about us, the photographer. I'm with you 100%, Jessica.
Everything you said is exactly how I feel about this situation!!! I can’t help but feel like photographers (speaking as a photographer) now a days are getting a little too entitled. At the end of the day I think as photographers we need to understand this is a HUGE expense for our clients and therefore they also deserve the best experience and customer service.
I went to school for music composition, & although I didn’t continue that path we follow the same concept (at least film/game composers do)- you may personally love the music you made but if it doesn’t match your director/developer’s personal vision then it doesn’t matter, you need to adjust or sometimes rewrite the music to please your client’s particular preference. The music you’re writing isn’t for YOUR pleasure, it’s for the person that hired you
I really wanted to know your opinion on thiss🎉🎉❤