If you missed it make sure to catch our series on Pearl Harbour minute by minute, our most audacious release to date. The first episode is right here: ruclips.net/video/Joh2BXPsrXs/видео.html Please read our rules of conduct before you comment: community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
@@federicopescume8600 here's one of our videos on the topic to start with ruclips.net/video/nUzCFlLL8N4/видео.html we will continue covering it of course.
I once read a quip by one of Adm. Kings daughters when someone made a comment to her about her father's volatile temper. She responded with... "He is the most even-tempered person in the United States Navy. He is always in a rage."
@@keiranallcott1515 I don't recall where I read it, but it's such a funny quote that I'd be surprised if any work which discussed Adm. King's temperament didn't mention it.
Well it will be interesting to see the series next because , they had the Pearl harbour attack well covered , but I’ll like to see them cover what some historians call the pearl harbour of the Atlantic , basically the commencement of operation drumbeat and the Americans slow repossessed to it and there s a lot of crazy stuff that happened and admiral king did get the blame for nit implementing measures , it should be worth mentioning that he did hate or had issues with the British navy staff
I think a video discussing all the different Chinese warlords and cliques of this time would be interesting, and would help shed light on an obscure topic most people are not that familiar with.
That really would be an interesting topic. I know China was torn asunder by numerous warlords vying for power, but I don't have a clue as to who they were, how the country was divided up and what their personal ambitions were.
Good thing Alanbrooke stayed in England. He was one of the few generals who could stand up the Churchill when the latter tried to promote one of his wild ideas. I always liked what Churchill said, "When I thump the table and push my face towards him what does he do? Thumps the table harder and glares back at me."
@@benwilson6145 True. Then again, part of the reason for this was he was looking at the entire geopolitical landscape, not just one theatre of operations, and trying to juggle limited resources to meet the demands of the various regions. This included meeting the demands of the other Commonwealth Nations, mainly South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand regarding the deployment of their troops. The other reason for this was that he was a man of action, and had difficulty understanding the need to preparation. His perception that the delays were unnecessary left him "champing at the bit" with impatience. And this in spite of the fact that the reason the Gallipoli failed was lack of groundwork and preparation by the military men in charge of the operation. I am not defending Churchill, but merely pointing out that there were some larger considerations (some valid, others not) that influenced this meddling. Greece was an unnecessary diversion of forces, but given 8th Army supply issues at the time, it may not have had as big an impact as people think. Diverting forces to the Far East in 1942 was necessary, as Australia was virtually defenseless at the time. Hounding Wavell, then Auchinleck, to attack was needless meddling.
@@nicholasconder4703 He meddled with both Wavell and Auchinleck's plans and when they failed he sacked them, this was wrong and unforgivable. The British lost two very capable Generals. However Montgomery had prepared a defense against Churchill just as he did against Rommel. and both were defeated. The worst of Churchill faults was his rewriting of his action's, just like the captured German Generals to show his decisions as being correct. Too many still believe his accounts.
@@benwilson6145 I agree with you on Wavell. He was probably the most underrated British general of the war. It's a shame that he couldn't keep the initiative after Beda Fomm, or make Battleaxe work. Then he ended up having to oversea a completely untenable situation in Southeast Asia and Indonesia. Guy couldn't get a break. Auchinleck was, in my opinion, okay, but he had a knack of choosing poor subordinates (Cunningham and Ritchie come to mind) and not relieving incompetent officers of their commands. In the year he spent in charge of the 8th Army he never really figured out how to conduct a combined arms attack. As a result, First Alamein was almost a repeat of Crusader as far as poor planning and bad execution. It was a classic case of "muddling through". With regards to Montgomery, I would kinda disagree. There are a lot of accounts of Churchill putting him under a lot of pressure to attack, but Monty (and his ego) wouldn't bow to pressure. I think Churchill finally relented once 8th Army had cleared El Agheila and captured Tripoli. The capture of Tripoli probably silenced any criticism Churchill may have had against Montgomery until July 1944 during the Normandy campaign.
Because of Field Marshall John Dill's professionalism and the great respect he earned from his American counterparts, he is one of 60 foreign servicemen buried at Arlington National Cemetery. The equestrian statue on his grave is also one of only two at the cemetery.
Katherine Marshall's book "Together" has some insights into the relationship of Sir John Dill and George Marshall. Dill, who considered his work in the US the most important of his life, died in late 1944. He was buried at Arlington.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Partly, but he was also an Anglophobe, or more correctly, he just hated the British. Sadly, he allowed this to cloud his judgement, while his ego didn't permit him to listen to the advice of others. Six months of massive allied shipping losses to U-boats were the result.
Hitler:Schiesse...Romania you're not even casting the right spells!! Romania: That's cause I'm not a mage, dude. Franco was supposed to be the mage. Where the **** is he you said he was joining our guild!! Hitler: Franco, yes....uhh.....he's at band camp.. Hungary: Band camp? Hitler: Yeah.....band camp.
It does! Just as the UN is an outgrowth of the Allied powers. Hell it even shares a name with the US designation for the European theater, NATO. (North Atlantic Theater of Operations.)
You may wish to read "Washington War". It details the organizing of the USA's war production industries and military grand strategies. It includes personalities in Washington DC and London, and the government boards formed to make things happen.
You may wish to read "Washington War". It details the organizing of the USA's war production industries and military grand strategies. It includes personalities in Washington DC and London, and the government boards formed to make things happen.
I remember watching the First World War documentary and how Haig didn't like Pershing wanting to command his own American units. How far we have come by 1942 lol
Haig (among others, both British and French) were uneasy about the war dragging into 1919 and were genuinely concerned that the USA would try and steal the lion's share of the thunder for winning the war. Obviously it was a Franco-British victory first and foremost anyway, but Haig was sincerely anxious that this wouldn't be so clear cut if the war dragged into 1919 or heaven forbid 1920. They were pushing hard to break Germany as quickly as possible, partly for the credit, partly for the determination to end the bloodbath. Ironically Pershing was all for marching on Berlin, and essentially taking the war to the Germans and making them pay by other means. I would speculate that Haig was specifically concerned that Pershing would claim conquering Germany as an American victory, seeing as the American Expeditionary Force had now expanded to insane numbers. Then there is the British blockade of Germany to consider, which was genuinely having a serious effect on the German Home Front. Nazi propaganda later on claimed Germany still had a lot of fight left in her, based on the numbers. Reality was, they were on the verge of total collapse anyway. People were eating zoo animals, boiling book bindings for animal fat and even eating rats and soap (again, for animal fats) in Germany by November 1918. Rationing wasn't as effective as it was in Britain and the British blockade was devastating to German imports obviously. The German Kaiser came close to threatening to declare war on the Austro-Hungarian Empire, his own ally, because Austrian troops stole a shipment of food in the South. One shipment causing that much anger. It was _that_ bad. But the Nazis obviously acted like this didn't matter, and that the Eastern Front troops shipped West by train after Russia peaced out of the war, would have miraculously overpowered the Franco-British and Americans already in France and Belgium. Operation Michael was supposed to hammer a wedge between the main British and main French forces, and push for the Channel Ports. If the British lost those, they might have to try and evacuate, which was the idea. The attack punched a salient in the British lines but at heavy cost and it was contained and crushed later, as if nothing had happened. The British took the battering in Operation Michael, then hit back even harder.The Germans couldn't make good on what ground they'd managed to take, and were inevitably driven back the way they came. It failed. Ludendorff knew it was game over then, not that he'd say it to the public, but he knew. If _that_ plan failed, then nothing else would do any better, especially with hundreds of thousands of more Americans arriving all the time. Then the combined arms tactics of the British and Empire forces counterattacking at Amiens and the Hundred Days Offensive following it, essentially sealed the fate of Ludendorff's strategy to end the war before US forces arrived in greater numbers. It was already too late, even with the Eastern Front veterans where they were. Old Pershing would have made sure of that. He wanted to raze Germany to the ground for what it had done. So you can understand why Douglas Haig was a bit grumpy about Pershing, but at the same time, Pershing was if anything even more angry about the Germans than Haig was, which seems strange. Even in 1918, some British people were calling Haig, 'Butcher Haig' for the Battle of the Somme.
Big shocker, Churchill doesnt get on with an army general and tries to send them to the far east/india as punishment.... as if thats not something he does a lot ^^.
@@ToddSauve Well, the former King of England did had a record of dubious loyalty concerning the UK and Germany. You ever wondered why so many documents regarding his involvment in the Rudolf Hess affair are still a state secret?
@@derrickthewhite1 Yes but David was not of very good character at that time. He spent his time making money laundering runs to Florida and living the life of a person born with a silver spoon in his mouth, while his former subjects were fighting the Nazis. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid ...
Army: MY RESOURCES Navy: NO - MY RESOURCES Army Air force: NO - OUR RESOURCES Coast Guard: Hey guys I'm here too, just let me know if you want me to do anything, you know like hunt Uboats. I'll be right here.
It ensured the big split wasn't between US COS and Brit COS. Instead some of the bitterest fighting of the war was between the allied admirals and the allied generals.
@@NamFlow I think this is the first time anyone has asked for my opinion on a tie not featured in the video. What a milestone. And what an abomination to mark the occasion. 0/5 kill it with fire
Admiral King was also a notorious Anglophobe, and his initial refusal to accept British advice to operate a convoy system for US merchantmen crossing the Atlantic cost a lot of American merchant sailors' lives.
Superb episode. I read somewhere that Eisenhower insisted that all his senior officers read a book about conducting a coalition war by a very senior British officer (General Robertson?) based on his experience in WW1.
Well done as always Indy and Time Ghost Crew! In hindsight it’s really amazing how much the Allies were able to cooperate despite not having much in common(certain the Americans and British have quite a bit in common but neither with the Soviets or the KMT) and the Axis despite having similar ideologies were such ineffective allies.
@@Rendarth1 Austria-Hungary was able to hold its weight, so did Ottomans. Not as much as Germany but was on scale. While WWII Italy was totally unprepared for war of such scale.
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox The Axis wants Africa, Europe(European Axis) and Asia(Japan) they wont go to America continent due to US naval dominance. 3/5 continents more than 50% of world population, you can say its world domination
Wow, Indy, this was a great episode. As an army staff guy myself, I was able to personally relate to many of the principles you talked about here. Seems the Allies were much better organized than the Axis.
"Seems the Allies were much better organized than the Axis." - in every possible way, not just in military command. JK Galbraith (the economist) wrote a famous book in the late 1940s titled "Nazi Germany Was Badly Run".
You may wish to read "Washington War". It details the organizing of the USA's war production industries and military grand strategies. It includes personalities in Washington DC and London, and the government boards formed to make things happen.
Considering the importance of propaganda films in this war, have you thought about creating a special about them, where you would talk about propaganda films like Desert Victory or the Why We Fight series?
@@stevekaczynski3793 they briefly mentioned axis propaganda movies in the bio episode of Leni Riefenstahl, it would be wonderfull to see a more in depth analysis
Even better, they should produce a WWII-like propaganda film, advertising their own channel. Or just recreate some fragments of the most famous films and combine them in one.
Hap Arnold having 4 heart attacks during the course of the war, winning the war, and surviving all 4 of them to die after the war’s end is one of the most inspiring things I’ve ever heard.
Hawaii "We have a lot of Japanese navy cipher traffic, but can only read a very little bit of it." Singapore "We have a lot of Japanese navy cipher traffic, but can only read a very little bit of it." "HOLY FUCKING SHIT!"
As I learn more about WWII the more impressed I have become with the ability of the Allies to embrace unified command. As you mentioned that is something that neither Germany nor Japan were able to accomplish. Not only within the US but to also include Britain even though in some cases our high level goals diverged.
Once again, Indy and the team delivers so much insight into some of the most influential, yet little-known aspects of WWII and indeed the whole 20th century. Kudos!
A criticism: the old film effect overlaid on the background flags beginning at approximately at 1:30 and 2:00 is incredibly irritating. There's some element of it which is causing the whole screen to rapidly flicker in brightness. I don't know if this is due to the youtube compression, or if it is a deliberate attempt to imitate film projector flicker, but the constant flicker is irritating. I understand the effect you're trying to go for, but perhaps you could try to find an old film artifact filter that doesn't introduce the brightness flicker? Thanks once again for the history lessons.
Yes, Gen Arnold drove himself to the point of 4 heart attacks, but he drove his staff hard as well. There was a LtCol that had a heart attack & died during a meeting chaired by Arnold; after he was removed by the medics they picked up where they left off.
Honestly the only good thing about Jackson is that he was the first truly democratically elected president. Other than that though his legacy is mostly an embarrassment to the country. I'd support switching him out for Marshall
OR we can go ahead with who they were GOING to replace Andrew Jackson with until the "completely not racist*" Trump said a black woman who was a legend in civil rights would NEVER grace currency in HIS presidency.
Admiral King could be a major PITA and certainly got people killed that shouldn't have. On the other hand his "meetings" with the US Navy Bureau of Ordinance about the VERY faulty Mark 14 Torpedo was supposed to have been EPIC. Drachinifel said he has records of it and is going to have them in a Wednesday "Rum Rations" sometime. He said it would need a LOT of cleaning up to avoid being demonetized. (Que very evil Drach laugh). It was only King that could have done something like that. sm
Admiral Ernest King had a huge dislike for the British. So much that it affected his decisions in the Battle of the Atlantic. He refused to use the convoy system for US merchant ships supplying Britain until the casualties became so much that he was left with no choice.
Just and idea. What about a subseries going over important events or discussions that happen in CCoS when it is established in 1942. It could be at the end of each month or something along those lines.
Admiral King Should have been demoted for failing to form convoys and persisting with the type 14 torpedo. Each costing so many lives, together extending the war by more than a year.
Fascinating. Your background information and explanations are simply terrific. The U.S. and the Commonwealth working together ... this could be the start of a beautiful relationship, or are the Brits just trying to use American blood and treasure to maintain their empire ? Time will tell. Regarding Sir Dudley Pound, can you imagine the stress that he must have been under ? Churchill said that the U-Boat threat was what really troubled him, and his pressure, and meddling, from above must have been intense. Spoiler: Pound's health was poor even at the very start of the War. He suffered from hip deterioration, and this affected his sleep. He even had a severe stroke at the Quebec conference that left him paralyzed. His wife passed away in July1943, and he passed away in October.
Often not very well. The Germans for example had to keep the Hungarians and Romanians apart on the Eastern Front, in case they found war with each other preferable to war with the USSR.
Yep, people always underestimate the difference bureaucratic efficiency makes to the world. The cult of the hero (eg Churchill, Lincoln, etc) ignores the fact that typically their most important contribution was organising their subordinates properly.
Another great video, guys, but a gripe that has evolved in recent videos is the sound effect of whistling falling bombs. Sounds off and unfitting with the rest of what is otherwise a great video.
I really, really love that this episode is here. Coalition warfare is complex and inherently difficult. It requires time and preparation and trust. The French and the British still had trouble after 8 months in 1939-1940 and the British and the Americans will still be facing coordination issues during Sicily and D-day years from now. It is nice to see it foregrounded here, because I am really, really hoping that the importance of having clear communication and the inherent difficulties of coalition leadership are brought up again when we get to the early March episodes about Stilwell's plan for an allied elastic defense and counterattack in Burma against a superior Japanese force using troops from 6 countries who have no history of working together. Too often it's told as a good plan that was poorly executed by unreliable allies, when it was a plan that should never have been attempted due to the inherent problems of coordination. The British and Chinese, who actually supplied the troops in theater, had not ever worked together. There is no history of Great War cooperation and no shared language. Furthermore, the British troops are actually Burmese, Indian, and Australian troops. The Chinese troops are officially under American Stilwell's command, but that's only been the case for a week in early March. Both the British and the Chinese, after the loss of Rangoon and facing a lower Burma in open revolt, independently come up with the idea of pulling back North 150 km to just south of Mandalay. This will buy time for 7 Chinese divisions to arrive and give the shattered 17th indian division time to rest. This will buy some more time before the Japanese arrive and will allow the British and the Chinese to organize a command structure. They hope to sort of do what Finland did during the Winter War. They know they can't win in the near term, the best they can hope for is limiting the Japanese victory to the southern half of Burma... but, if the allies can hold North Burma for two more months, the Monsoon will arrive and force the Japanese to stop which then buys further time for reinforcements to be flown in from India. Stilwell hates this idea. He thinks its defeatist. He thinks it's cowardly. He has a hunch that the Japanese are weak. (when anyone watching the weekly episodes will know that, by march, they have already gone through Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, the Philippines, and Hong Kong like a chainsaw). Also, the Chinese and the British... who have this thing that he doesn't... oh yes, actual combat experience against Japan, tell him the Japanese aren't weak. Stilwell has a different plan. Troops from China under American command will work with troops from India, Burma, and Australia under British command and execute complex elastic defense operations relying on pinning and surrounding isolated Japanese forces using coordinated marches and quick counter attacks. It's insane. The troops involved have been working together for about.... 2 weeks. China is not part of the overall allied command structure. The Chinese commanders tell him that Chinese troops aren't capable of that kind of maneuver warfare (and certainly not more capable than the Japanese) When it all blows up, people don't blame Stilwell for making a bad plan, they blame the Chinese and the British for not perfectly executing Stilwell's bad plan. You can see Richard Frank answer a question about this here in a talk about tower of skulls to the Macarthur foundation. ruclips.net/video/i5Gw1VbrCmE/видео.html
The CCS was the template for both the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and eventually NATO. While it's true that the Allies' military staffs were unified (unlike the Axis), it ignores for good reason that the Soviets were not included. More like a marriage of convenience as opposed to a true alliance...
@@stevekaczynski3793 yeah, the problem is that my country has a negationist president, that since the start of the quarantine has many times not given a fuck about the safety measures: not wearing masks in public, shaking hands with crowds, recommending hydroxocloquine, despite the evident lack of efficiency against covid, and now, when the governor of a southeastern state started buying the vaccines, the president did everything he could to delay the attempts to start the vaccination, and he said he is not going to take the vaccine, troublesome times,man.
@@stevekaczynski3793 I'd imagine they would have taken whatever precautions they could, given the era. Most of those men were around for the Spanish Flu.
Very little is said here of Adm Leahy. He was the highest ranking member of the US military from July 1942. King and Marshall did not want an invasion of North Africa, but save resources for an invasion of Western Europe. Leahy told them to prepare an invasion of North Africa, final desicion because Roosevelt wanted it. Leahy had his office at the Health Building and at the West Wing of the White House. The Map Room was created at the White House to plan the War. Only Leahy and Roosevelt's assistant Hopkins were allowed in unescorted. An excellent book on the War's major decisions by the top leadership is "Washington War". I read it from my local library.
It's clear to me Churchill and FDR wanted to avoid the mess the Entente created/exasperated in WW1 with lack of coordination, poor planning/sharing of intelligence & resources, and each nation's army squabbling with each other and no one person/group at the top everyone agreed to having ultimate authority over managing the war effort.
Churchill had 20 years earlier written a long book about WW1 of which a major theme was that the war lasted so long because the lack of unified command stopped the Entente bringing their resources to bear efficiently. He was very determined not to repeat that.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
If you missed it make sure to catch our series on Pearl Harbour minute by minute, our most audacious release to date. The first episode is right here:
ruclips.net/video/Joh2BXPsrXs/видео.html
Please read our rules of conduct before you comment: community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
Cool I’m early, love ur vids Indy and Gang : )
This channel should do at least one special on the German Navy's Operation Drumbeat. Admiral King did make some questionable decisions.
Are you going to make a special about the lend-lease program?
@中田沙耶 When did the United States or Great Britain invaded Yemen together?
@@federicopescume8600 here's one of our videos on the topic to start with ruclips.net/video/nUzCFlLL8N4/видео.html
we will continue covering it of course.
So, the allies won with the power of friendship.
Yes, friendship with the USSR.
Love win forever
The real prize was the friends they made along the way!
Friendship through superior firepower!
@@brianjenkins8514
I don't get it, you just repeated yourself. :)
I once read a quip by one of Adm. Kings daughters when someone made a comment to her about her father's volatile temper. She responded with... "He is the most even-tempered person in the United States Navy. He is always in a rage."
Sounds like she (and perhaps he) were products of abusive childhoods?
@@stevekaczynski3793 I don't know, but I'm glad I didn't grow up in his house.
That comment is in a book about Leyte gulf , I think it was 24 hours in Leyte by Thomas j cutler
@@keiranallcott1515 I don't recall where I read it, but it's such a funny quote that I'd be surprised if any work which discussed Adm. King's temperament didn't mention it.
Well it will be interesting to see the series next because , they had the Pearl harbour attack well covered , but I’ll like to see them cover what some historians call the pearl harbour of the Atlantic , basically the commencement of operation drumbeat and the Americans slow repossessed to it and there s a lot of crazy stuff that happened and admiral king did get the blame for nit implementing measures , it should be worth mentioning that he did hate or had issues with the British navy staff
I think a video discussing all the different Chinese warlords and cliques of this time would be interesting, and would help shed light on an obscure topic most people are not that familiar with.
Hell yeah, even we Chinese get confused by all the warlords.
Every province a clique!
That really would be an interesting topic. I know China was torn asunder by numerous warlords vying for power, but I don't have a clue as to who they were, how the country was divided up and what their personal ambitions were.
@@jiachengwu4185 VPN or Taiwan?
@@principalityofbelka6310 Only a Belkan deals in absolutes
Good thing Alanbrooke stayed in England. He was one of the few generals who could stand up the Churchill when the latter tried to promote one of his wild ideas. I always liked what Churchill said, "When I thump the table and push my face towards him what does he do? Thumps the table harder and glares back at me."
Often missed, Churchill was a compulsive meddler in Military Operations. He was almost as big a menace to the forces in North Africa as Rommel.
@@benwilson6145 True. Then again, part of the reason for this was he was looking at the entire geopolitical landscape, not just one theatre of operations, and trying to juggle limited resources to meet the demands of the various regions. This included meeting the demands of the other Commonwealth Nations, mainly South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand regarding the deployment of their troops. The other reason for this was that he was a man of action, and had difficulty understanding the need to preparation. His perception that the delays were unnecessary left him "champing at the bit" with impatience. And this in spite of the fact that the reason the Gallipoli failed was lack of groundwork and preparation by the military men in charge of the operation.
I am not defending Churchill, but merely pointing out that there were some larger considerations (some valid, others not) that influenced this meddling. Greece was an unnecessary diversion of forces, but given 8th Army supply issues at the time, it may not have had as big an impact as people think. Diverting forces to the Far East in 1942 was necessary, as Australia was virtually defenseless at the time. Hounding Wavell, then Auchinleck, to attack was needless meddling.
@@nicholasconder4703 He meddled with both Wavell and Auchinleck's plans and when they failed he sacked them, this was wrong and unforgivable. The British lost two very capable Generals.
However Montgomery had prepared a defense against Churchill just as he did against Rommel. and both were defeated. The worst of Churchill faults was his rewriting of his action's, just like the captured German Generals to show his decisions as being correct. Too many still believe his accounts.
@@benwilson6145 I agree with you on Wavell. He was probably the most underrated British general of the war. It's a shame that he couldn't keep the initiative after Beda Fomm, or make Battleaxe work. Then he ended up having to oversea a completely untenable situation in Southeast Asia and Indonesia. Guy couldn't get a break.
Auchinleck was, in my opinion, okay, but he had a knack of choosing poor subordinates (Cunningham and Ritchie come to mind) and not relieving incompetent officers of their commands. In the year he spent in charge of the 8th Army he never really figured out how to conduct a combined arms attack. As a result, First Alamein was almost a repeat of Crusader as far as poor planning and bad execution. It was a classic case of "muddling through".
With regards to Montgomery, I would kinda disagree. There are a lot of accounts of Churchill putting him under a lot of pressure to attack, but Monty (and his ego) wouldn't bow to pressure. I think Churchill finally relented once 8th Army had cleared El Agheila and captured Tripoli. The capture of Tripoli probably silenced any criticism Churchill may have had against Montgomery until July 1944 during the Normandy campaign.
Because of Field Marshall John Dill's professionalism and the great respect he earned from his American counterparts, he is one of 60 foreign servicemen buried at Arlington National Cemetery. The equestrian statue on his grave is also one of only two at the cemetery.
George C. Marshall. The only five star in the US military not to come from a service academy
Idk where you picked up that little factoid Sean Whearty but you win the BadAss Internet Comment of the Day Award
George C. Marshall one of the greatest American generals ever and one of the best Secretaries of State we've had. A product of VMI.
@@Eric_Hutton.1980 I know. I go there
@@miamijules2149 it’s because he went to my college. He’s our most famous alum
And probably one of the most underrated WW2 commanders, everybody has heard of Patton and Montgomery and so on but Marshall is forgotten
Wait? So the real victory really was in the friends we made along the way?
LOL
Yeah, but when you're handing out planes, tanks, and high explosives, friends are easy to make.
Admiral King was an even tempered man. He woke up in a rage and stayed that way all day
The biggest problem the Joint Chiefs had with King was that he was a winner & was always right 😹
Katherine Marshall's book "Together" has some insights into the relationship of Sir John Dill and George Marshall. Dill, who considered his work in the US the most important of his life, died in late 1944. He was buried at Arlington.
This seems so ridiculously.... functional. Compared to the WW1 version where they bickered constantly and were a bit useless, this seems competent.
Admiral King got a lot of US Merchent sailors killed because he didn't trust the British that were TELLING HIM to use a convoy system.
@@siem3113 He obviously was a guy who hated being told anything.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Partly, but he was also an Anglophobe, or more correctly, he just hated the British. Sadly, he allowed this to cloud his judgement, while his ego didn't permit him to listen to the advice of others. Six months of massive allied shipping losses to U-boats were the result.
@@nicholasconder4703 Second Happy Time to German submarines.
@@nicholasconder4703 kind of ironic, as King is an English surname
Meanwhile in the Axis...
Mussolini : "LEEROY JENKINS !!!!"
Hitler : "damn it he did it again, I need your help right now !"
Tojo : "nope"
Sounds like HOI4 😂
That's the AI basicaly
Hitler:Schiesse...Romania you're not even casting the right spells!!
Romania: That's cause I'm not a mage, dude. Franco was supposed to be the mage. Where the **** is he you said he was joining our guild!!
Hitler: Franco, yes....uhh.....he's at band camp..
Hungary: Band camp?
Hitler: Yeah.....band camp.
Mussolini: REBUILD THE ROMAN EMPIRE!!
Also Mussolini: *Gets his ass kicked by Greece before having to cry to Germany for help*
@@Th3Kingism To be fair Mussolini never wanted to reform Rome.
I have to imagine that the Anglo-American experience of doing this kind of joint planning would help when they formed NATO after the war.
It does! Just as the UN is an outgrowth of the Allied powers. Hell it even shares a name with the US designation for the European theater, NATO. (North Atlantic Theater of Operations.)
@@bakomusha The post War United Nations shares the name the Allies called themselves; the United Nations.
Imagine working together to defeat a common enemy.
No way!
This is one of the best episodes so far, I love the often unspoken contributions of organization, beaurcracy and economy.
You may wish to read "Washington War". It details the organizing of the USA's war production industries and military grand strategies. It includes personalities in Washington DC and London, and the government boards formed to make things happen.
Take a shot every time Lindy says the word : Chief
I drank a cup of tea every time Indy said "Chief"...I am British now
Take two when he says "chief of staff".
How to die in 12mins
Liver failure I'm 12 minutes or less.
Challenge accep....(thud, falls on floor passed out)
I love this insight into military bureaucracy.
You may wish to read "Washington War". It details the organizing of the USA's war production industries and military grand strategies. It includes personalities in Washington DC and London, and the government boards formed to make things happen.
The Axis in Europe also had a Joint Chief of Staff.....well ........whenever the germans took over their allies like Italy in 43 or Hungary in 44 :D
Germany in 43 remembering Austria in 16;
"Ah sh*t, here we go again"
"Chief of staff or chief of nation, what's the difference anyway?" ~ Hitler, 1943
Interesting episode on military bureaucracy here, the CCS has often been an aspect of the war that is overlooked.
"Red Tape brings the nation together" (Bernard Wooly)
"Red Tape brings the nation together" (Bernard Wooly)
Woo hoo! First mention of Douglas Aircraft, founded by my grandfather 99 years ago!
Really? That's cool as hell!
That is very cool. Good stock my friend.
Congratulations send an email at the 100th anniversary.
Mans must have been a very smart guy, his efforts did a lot to help winning the war in the Pacific.
Mans must have been a very smart guy, his efforts did a lot to help winning the war in the Pacific.
"It may seem to us like something perfectly rational to do..."
Which makes you wonder how it ever got done!
Alan Brooke was a perfect choice for CIGS, he absolutely mastered the art of balancing grand strategy and resource availability.
He also has an unusual advantage in that his Father and Roosevelt had be acquaintances in the 1920's
I remember watching the First World War documentary and how Haig didn't like Pershing wanting to command his own American units. How far we have come by 1942 lol
Haig (among others, both British and French) were uneasy about the war dragging into 1919 and were genuinely concerned that the USA would try and steal the lion's share of the thunder for winning the war. Obviously it was a Franco-British victory first and foremost anyway, but Haig was sincerely anxious that this wouldn't be so clear cut if the war dragged into 1919 or heaven forbid 1920.
They were pushing hard to break Germany as quickly as possible, partly for the credit, partly for the determination to end the bloodbath. Ironically Pershing was all for marching on Berlin, and essentially taking the war to the Germans and making them pay by other means. I would speculate that Haig was specifically concerned that Pershing would claim conquering Germany as an American victory, seeing as the American Expeditionary Force had now expanded to insane numbers. Then there is the British blockade of Germany to consider, which was genuinely having a serious effect on the German Home Front.
Nazi propaganda later on claimed Germany still had a lot of fight left in her, based on the numbers. Reality was, they were on the verge of total collapse anyway. People were eating zoo animals, boiling book bindings for animal fat and even eating rats and soap (again, for animal fats) in Germany by November 1918. Rationing wasn't as effective as it was in Britain and the British blockade was devastating to German imports obviously. The German Kaiser came close to threatening to declare war on the Austro-Hungarian Empire, his own ally, because Austrian troops stole a shipment of food in the South.
One shipment causing that much anger. It was _that_ bad. But the Nazis obviously acted like this didn't matter, and that the Eastern Front troops shipped West by train after Russia peaced out of the war, would have miraculously overpowered the Franco-British and Americans already in France and Belgium. Operation Michael was supposed to hammer a wedge between the main British and main French forces, and push for the Channel Ports. If the British lost those, they might have to try and evacuate, which was the idea.
The attack punched a salient in the British lines but at heavy cost and it was contained and crushed later, as if nothing had happened. The British took the battering in Operation Michael, then hit back even harder.The Germans couldn't make good on what ground they'd managed to take, and were inevitably driven back the way they came. It failed. Ludendorff knew it was game over then, not that he'd say it to the public, but he knew. If _that_ plan failed, then nothing else would do any better, especially with hundreds of thousands of more Americans arriving all the time.
Then the combined arms tactics of the British and Empire forces counterattacking at Amiens and the Hundred Days Offensive following it, essentially sealed the fate of Ludendorff's strategy to end the war before US forces arrived in greater numbers. It was already too late, even with the Eastern Front veterans where they were. Old Pershing would have made sure of that. He wanted to raze Germany to the ground for what it had done. So you can understand why Douglas Haig was a bit grumpy about Pershing, but at the same time, Pershing was if anything even more angry about the Germans than Haig was, which seems strange. Even in 1918, some British people were calling Haig, 'Butcher Haig' for the Battle of the Somme.
This was enlightening! I never knew any of this. You consistently provide amazing content.
I took a shot everytime I heard "Chief of Staff"
I'm.... destroyed!
Big shocker, Churchill doesnt get on with an army general and tries to send them to the far east/india as punishment.... as if thats not something he does a lot ^^.
He banished the former King of England to the Bahamas for bad behaviour!
@@ToddSauve Well, the former King of England did had a record of dubious loyalty concerning the UK and Germany. You ever wondered why so many documents regarding his involvment in the Rudolf Hess affair are still a state secret?
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox Yes, I know he was a Nazi sympathizer. :(
@@ToddSauve You know, banished to the Bahamas doesn't really sound that bad...
@@derrickthewhite1 Yes but David was not of very good character at that time. He spent his time making money laundering runs to Florida and living the life of a person born with a silver spoon in his mouth, while his former subjects were fighting the Nazis. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid ...
Army: MY RESOURCES
Navy: NO - MY RESOURCES
Army Air force: NO - OUR RESOURCES
Coast Guard: Hey guys I'm here too, just let me know if you want me to do anything, you know like hunt Uboats. I'll be right here.
Navy: Hell no, Coast Guard! Get back here! NOW!!
Coast Guard: But I'm in the Treasury Department...
Navy: Not anymore!!
The coast guards also manned every landing craft in the Pacific (and probably in the Atlantic/Med as well), so respect
Coasties never get any love.
@@peteranderson037 lol but hey in all seriousness, much respect to them, I don't know who else would be willing to brave 100ft waves to save people.
K...you know why the Coast Guard was created, besides checking the coastal borders...so the Navy would have a partner for dances...hehehe
Allies: Let us have cooperation to win even though we have major differences!
Axis: Lets not do that! In fact the complete opposite!💀
Well they united... under german military command:)
It ensured the big split wasn't between US COS and Brit COS. Instead some of the bitterest fighting of the war was between the allied admirals and the allied generals.
I always love that ramble at the end of the video where the camera zooms in on Indy's face 😂
Oh my, that is one "special" tie. 4/5 for whatever the hell that is
How would you rate this one, Mr. Gianni "The Tie Man"?
imgur.com/a/n3kQDDj
@@NamFlow I think this is the first time anyone has asked for my opinion on a tie not featured in the video. What a milestone.
And what an abomination to mark the occasion. 0/5 kill it with fire
ЩО! That's my favorite one! Looks vaguely Fauvist.
@@gianniverschueren870 It doesn't need to be killed with fire, it will explode itself on impact ;-)
I hope they salute you one day, if they haven't already. Your taste in ties is impeccable.
6:46 I like how those words are literally just the same thing with different connotations.
"Does this make sense to you?"
"Idk you said 'Chief of Staff' a lot."
Admiral King was also a notorious Anglophobe, and his initial refusal to accept British advice to operate a convoy system for US merchantmen crossing the Atlantic cost a lot of American merchant sailors' lives.
Superb episode. I read somewhere that Eisenhower insisted that all his senior officers read a book about conducting a coalition war by a very senior British officer (General Robertson?) based on his experience in WW1.
Well done as always Indy and Time Ghost Crew! In hindsight it’s really amazing how much the Allies were able to cooperate despite not having much in common(certain the Americans and British have quite a bit in common but neither with the Soviets or the KMT) and the Axis despite having similar ideologies were such ineffective allies.
Hard to imagine an equivalent with the Axis Powers indeed. Their “alliance” was never of mutual support or common interest beyond world domination.
Lol, Dr Evil comes to mind
The European Axis, much like the Central Powers before them, seemed more like "Germany does it all" than any kind of real mutual cooperation.
@@Rendarth1 Austria-Hungary was able to hold its weight, so did Ottomans. Not as much as Germany but was on scale. While WWII Italy was totally unprepared for war of such scale.
You were right until "world domination"
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox The Axis wants Africa, Europe(European Axis) and Asia(Japan) they wont go to America continent due to US naval dominance. 3/5 continents more than 50% of world population, you can say its world domination
Wow, Indy, this was a great episode. As an army staff guy myself, I was able to personally relate to many of the principles you talked about here. Seems the Allies were much better organized than the Axis.
"Seems the Allies were much better organized than the Axis." - in every possible way, not just in military command. JK Galbraith (the economist) wrote a famous book in the late 1940s titled "Nazi Germany Was Badly Run".
You may wish to read "Washington War". It details the organizing of the USA's war production industries and military grand strategies. It includes personalities in Washington DC and London, and the government boards formed to make things happen.
The post war future "oohhoo" was brilliant
Anglo-American alliance intensifies
Considering the importance of propaganda films in this war, have you thought about creating a special about them, where you would talk about propaganda films like Desert Victory or the Why We Fight series?
Propaganda in WW2 - much of it quite virulent - is a worthy subject of its own, with perhaps two specials possible, for Allied and Axid propaganda.
@@stevekaczynski3793 they briefly mentioned axis propaganda movies in the bio episode of Leni Riefenstahl, it would be wonderfull to see a more in depth analysis
Even better, they should produce a WWII-like propaganda film, advertising their own channel. Or just recreate some fragments of the most famous films and combine them in one.
Where did they get that beautiful map they have on the wall? I stare at it every episode and just want to find my own for my office!
Hap Arnold having 4 heart attacks during the course of the war, winning the war, and surviving all 4 of them to die after the war’s end is one of the most inspiring things I’ve ever heard.
Hawaii "We have a lot of Japanese navy cipher traffic, but can only read a very little bit of it."
Singapore "We have a lot of Japanese navy cipher traffic, but can only read a very little bit of it."
"HOLY FUCKING SHIT!"
As I learn more about WWII the more impressed I have become with the ability of the Allies to embrace unified command. As you mentioned that is something that neither Germany nor Japan were able to accomplish. Not only within the US but to also include Britain even though in some cases our high level goals diverged.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Merry Saturnalia
we are early yet,man
Sir John Dill is the only non-US buried at Arlington and his grave marked by one of only two equestrian statues
This video should be included in the curriculum at every Officer Training School in the US military.
The content quality never ceases to amaze me. Does anyone know whats the music in the background is?
11:47 thanks for giving away the ending!
Spoiler alert: The United States continues to exist after war. Also, our flag changes in the near future.
Once again, Indy and the team delivers so much insight into some of the most influential, yet little-known aspects of WWII and indeed the whole 20th century. Kudos!
U guys are so good. Thanks for all your hard work
The work you guys are doing is incredible, thank you very much for making this show new highs levels of quality every episodes
A criticism: the old film effect overlaid on the background flags beginning at approximately at 1:30 and 2:00 is incredibly irritating. There's some element of it which is causing the whole screen to rapidly flicker in brightness. I don't know if this is due to the youtube compression, or if it is a deliberate attempt to imitate film projector flicker, but the constant flicker is irritating. I understand the effect you're trying to go for, but perhaps you could try to find an old film artifact filter that doesn't introduce the brightness flicker?
Thanks once again for the history lessons.
Thank you for the feedback!
Thank you for another excellent video covering an important and too often overlooked subject!
Favorite tie on Indy so far!
Never knew this existed. Amazing vid!
Japan: do we have an unity in our war departments?
Oh.........?
ohhh
Famously the Pacific War was a three sided one - the US versus the IJA versus the IJN.
I enjoyed how informative this video was. And Can't wait for the next video from this channel. Great job.
Another really great episode. Thanks.
Yes, Gen Arnold drove himself to the point of 4 heart attacks, but he drove his staff hard as well. There was a LtCol that had a heart attack & died during a meeting chaired by Arnold; after he was removed by the medics they picked up where they left off.
Excellent. This was very informative.
Should be a "Chief of Staff" times counter number on the corner of this video.
George Marshall should be on money. Andrew Jackson can shove over.
Yeah I agree honestly
Honestly the only good thing about Jackson is that he was the first truly democratically elected president. Other than that though his legacy is mostly an embarrassment to the country. I'd support switching him out for Marshall
Looks at what he did to China.......
No, just no.
HELL YES
OR we can go ahead with who they were GOING to replace Andrew Jackson with until the "completely not racist*" Trump said a black woman who was a legend in civil rights would NEVER grace currency in HIS presidency.
Another fantastic special! I love you guys. Stay safe.
Indy. I'd like you to do a series on the WW II battle of the north Atlantic.
Admiral King could be a major PITA and certainly got people killed that shouldn't have. On the other hand his "meetings" with the US Navy Bureau of Ordinance about the VERY faulty Mark 14 Torpedo was supposed to have been EPIC. Drachinifel said he has records of it and is going to have them in a Wednesday "Rum Rations" sometime. He said it would need a LOT of cleaning up to avoid being demonetized. (Que very evil Drach laugh). It was only King that could have done something like that. sm
"jumping in to the post war future💥💥💥" am i high?? 😂
As the war gets closer to the end....
we will be seeing an increased number of Downfall jokes.
Admiral Ernest King had a huge dislike for the British. So much that it affected his decisions in the Battle of the Atlantic. He refused to use the convoy system for US merchant ships supplying Britain until the casualties became so much that he was left with no choice.
Damn, this is the kind of shit you never learn about until now. Excellent job as usual TimeGhost. 👍
Just and idea. What about a subseries going over important events or discussions that happen in CCoS when it is established in 1942. It could be at the end of each month or something along those lines.
Good Video!
Essentially Leahy is the precursor of today's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The support staff would be soooo extensive!! I can't even begin to think of where to draw that line eh!
Admiral King Should have been demoted for failing to form convoys and persisting with the type 14 torpedo. Each costing so many lives, together extending the war by more than a year.
excellent video as always
Fascinating. Your background information and explanations are simply terrific. The U.S. and the Commonwealth working together ... this could be the start of a beautiful relationship, or are the Brits just trying to use American blood and treasure to maintain their empire ? Time will tell.
Regarding Sir Dudley Pound, can you imagine the stress that he must have been under ? Churchill said that the U-Boat threat was what really troubled him, and his pressure, and meddling, from above must have been intense. Spoiler: Pound's health was poor even at the very start of the War. He suffered from hip deterioration, and this affected his sleep. He even had a severe stroke at the Quebec conference that left him paralyzed. His wife passed away in July1943, and he passed away in October.
Charles Portal and Dudley Pound.... great names.
the only thing harder than going to war with allies is going to war without them
It'd be interesting to hear how the Axis handled joint military operations like on the eastern front.
Often not very well. The Germans for example had to keep the Hungarians and Romanians apart on the Eastern Front, in case they found war with each other preferable to war with the USSR.
Another episode on logistics would be awesome.
Very interesting video.
Am I the only one focusing on the content rather than any dress or necktie? This is literally the greatest WW1+2 channel on earth.
It really is. You have good instincts.
Excellent documentary, UK & US unstoppable.
You should do a video of who where the main generals on each theatre
Four heart attacks during the course of the war, and here I thought these antibiotics I'm taking were rough on me.
Dudley Pound has a stroke and then died of a brain tumor
Another Great vid the series.
William Leahy got full on Dwight Schruted with that title
Admiral pound always seems to slip by unnoticed in a lot of documentaries despite his importance.
Brilliantly made point about this organisation that was a major reason for victory.
This really demonstrates that the best bureaucracy won the war.
Yep, people always underestimate the difference bureaucratic efficiency makes to the world. The cult of the hero (eg Churchill, Lincoln, etc) ignores the fact that typically their most important contribution was organising their subordinates properly.
Another great video, guys, but a gripe that has evolved in recent videos is the sound effect of whistling falling bombs. Sounds off and unfitting with the rest of what is otherwise a great video.
Thanks for the feedback, will take it back to the team
I really, really love that this episode is here. Coalition warfare is complex and inherently difficult. It requires time and preparation and trust. The French and the British still had trouble after 8 months in 1939-1940 and the British and the Americans will still be facing coordination issues during Sicily and D-day years from now.
It is nice to see it foregrounded here, because I am really, really hoping that the importance of having clear communication and the inherent difficulties of coalition leadership are brought up again when we get to the early March episodes about Stilwell's plan for an allied elastic defense and counterattack in Burma against a superior Japanese force using troops from 6 countries who have no history of working together. Too often it's told as a good plan that was poorly executed by unreliable allies, when it was a plan that should never have been attempted due to the inherent problems of coordination.
The British and Chinese, who actually supplied the troops in theater, had not ever worked together. There is no history of Great War cooperation and no shared language. Furthermore, the British troops are actually Burmese, Indian, and Australian troops. The Chinese troops are officially under American Stilwell's command, but that's only been the case for a week in early March.
Both the British and the Chinese, after the loss of Rangoon and facing a lower Burma in open revolt, independently come up with the idea of pulling back North 150 km to just south of Mandalay. This will buy time for 7 Chinese divisions to arrive and give the shattered 17th indian division time to rest. This will buy some more time before the Japanese arrive and will allow the British and the Chinese to organize a command structure. They hope to sort of do what Finland did during the Winter War. They know they can't win in the near term, the best they can hope for is limiting the Japanese victory to the southern half of Burma... but, if the allies can hold North Burma for two more months, the Monsoon will arrive and force the Japanese to stop which then buys further time for reinforcements to be flown in from India.
Stilwell hates this idea. He thinks its defeatist. He thinks it's cowardly. He has a hunch that the Japanese are weak. (when anyone watching the weekly episodes will know that, by march, they have already gone through Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, the Philippines, and Hong Kong like a chainsaw). Also, the Chinese and the British... who have this thing that he doesn't... oh yes, actual combat experience against Japan, tell him the Japanese aren't weak.
Stilwell has a different plan. Troops from China under American command will work with troops from India, Burma, and Australia under British command and execute complex elastic defense operations relying on pinning and surrounding isolated Japanese forces using coordinated marches and quick counter attacks.
It's insane. The troops involved have been working together for about.... 2 weeks. China is not part of the overall allied command structure. The Chinese commanders tell him that Chinese troops aren't capable of that kind of maneuver warfare (and certainly not more capable than the Japanese) When it all blows up, people don't blame Stilwell for making a bad plan, they blame the Chinese and the British for not perfectly executing Stilwell's bad plan.
You can see Richard Frank answer a question about this here in a talk about tower of skulls to the Macarthur foundation. ruclips.net/video/i5Gw1VbrCmE/видео.html
Indy's entire life has led to this one culminating moment at 11:55 :D
true true
Nice episode
The CCS was the template for both the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and eventually NATO. While it's true that the Allies' military staffs were unified (unlike the Axis), it ignores for good reason that the Soviets were not included. More like a marriage of convenience as opposed to a true alliance...
Pandemic has been going on so long that I can't even see a video from ww2 without thinking "they met face to face?!😱"
I think they would have ignored it, or at most worn masks from time to time.
Anyway, this too shall pass, eventually.
@@stevekaczynski3793 yeah, the problem is that my country has a negationist president, that since the start of the quarantine has many times not given a fuck about the safety measures: not wearing masks in public, shaking hands with crowds, recommending hydroxocloquine, despite the evident lack of efficiency against covid, and now, when the governor of a southeastern state started buying the vaccines, the president did everything he could to delay the attempts to start the vaccination, and he said he is not going to take the vaccine, troublesome times,man.
@@stevekaczynski3793 I'd imagine they would have taken whatever precautions they could, given the era.
Most of those men were around for the Spanish Flu.
The CCS is proof of the phrase "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the expanding needs of the bureaucracy"
Very little is said here of Adm Leahy. He was the highest ranking member of the US military from July 1942. King and Marshall did not want an invasion of North Africa, but save resources for an invasion of Western Europe. Leahy told them to prepare an invasion of North Africa, final desicion because Roosevelt wanted it. Leahy had his office at the Health Building and at the West Wing of the White House. The Map Room was created at the White House to plan the War. Only Leahy and Roosevelt's assistant Hopkins were allowed in unescorted.
An excellent book on the War's major decisions by the top leadership is "Washington War". I read it from my local library.
It's clear to me Churchill and FDR wanted to avoid the mess the Entente created/exasperated in WW1 with lack of coordination, poor planning/sharing of intelligence & resources, and each nation's army squabbling with each other and no one person/group at the top everyone agreed to having ultimate authority over managing the war effort.
Churchill had 20 years earlier written a long book about WW1 of which a major theme was that the war lasted so long because the lack of unified command stopped the Entente bringing their resources to bear efficiently. He was very determined not to repeat that.