The 1176 is really a limiter. So in theory, the threshold would be higher than in a compressor. If anyone can post the exact threshold specs for the limit and compression settings, that would be interesting.
I noticed that you were knocking a lot of db off on each compressor. Up to 20db (just under 10db each on the word "nightfall"). I read somewhere that when using serial compression like this, you only want to take off 2-3db with each compressor. Was that bad advice?
@@samsonlovesyou with a stable signal 2-4 db is good, but with a crazy dynamic range like he was showing on purpose, that’s probably the way to go. Only to get rid of the high peaks.. but well, who am I to state. As long as it sounds good? 🎉
The Higher Compression ratio trick on the 1176 is an eye opener. Never noticed this till now. Thanks David for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us. Really helps us Engineers a lot. Much love.
David, you always have that key piece of info that fills in the blanks for guys like me that have been home schooler students of this black art for a long time, and even though I have learned way more then I needed to, there is always something new ans useful to learn to put more pieces of the puzzle together. The variable knee on the 1176 and the difference in release times between the units are true pro tips for sure, and I always appreciate that you have better demo audio then even the pro manufacturers do. They choose some crappy rapper that is basically talking and you give us people actually singing and singing well. You can do this because you are working and building great relationships with your artists (some more than others, for sure, I'm prerty sure your girl don't mind) Love it man, its always a pleasure watching you grow and growing with you. You truly love audio engineering and it shows man. Thanks for sharing the love
Great explanation. Never heard such a detailed explanation and demo of why these two are so favored in tandem. I'm sure, once again as with some of your other videos, I'll be using it as a reference. Thanks again!
Great tip. I've been banging my head on a Jazz record I'm working on where the vocals are so dynamic. Never thought about using the high ratio to slam the peaks really fast. Once I made the4 changes to my 1176, the vocals sound immediately natural and not squished. Thank you thank you!!!!
Amazing video David!! The release curve explanation was pure gold, I feel like this type of knowledge is what separates the amateur/semi-pro "mixers" to the real world class professional mixing engineers. Perfection is on the details. I know it would be a ton of work, but I'd love to see a series of in depth analogue classic pieces. Something like "what makes this song great" from Rick Beato but about gear "what makes this piece great" and talk about the general aspects and then some quirks unique to that piece that made it a staple in most professional studios.
Best video you’ve released in a while! Great explanation of this trick and showing the a/b of it all. I often default to an LA2A. Though that’s because I often found when i put an 1176 in front of it i couldn’t for the life of me get the right setting it always felt too aggressive, and the LA2A often did it good enough. Sometimes I’ll do a distressor before the LA2A though. I had NO idea that the higher ratio made such a difference! I knew the knee changed, but didn’t realize it was so drastic. I usually had it on 8 ratio. I’ll try 12 now. It’ll add that little bit more control and transparent sound. Thanks!
Woah 🤯 the step with the high 12x ratio makes mega sense. You think it's so simple but then often overlook details like that. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. 🙏🏻 greets from south west germany near the City saarbrooklyn.
Great video. A classic example of how people make their life so complicated without not even knowing the basics of the simplest compressors with 2-3 knobs.
An absolutely outstanding and clear explanation of the more nuanced aspects of both processors. I like the way you used r-comp to easily illustrate your point!
the waves electro isn't like a 1176, it can be closer to a tube tech if for exemple your measure a tube tech softube or an elysia alpha. the reduction is closer to an exponential curve, than a 1176 or even LA2A more like logarithmic curve. and what you describe and we see in electro mode correspond to exponential like if itt "hold a little bit the compression" and after release
I saw many videos about the 1176, but I love about this video that you gave new insights about the knee behavior on higher ratios. Didn't know that. Also a great explanation about the release curves of the two units. With this background info I actually know what I do when I apply this technique!
Back in the days when I was still using HW compressors, my go-to compression for vocals was almost always serial compression, with a later 70’s model black face 1176(LN) first, then into an early 70’s LA-2A. It’s a great combination for vocals, but also very good for bass, and “some” electric guitars as well. But, there were also occasions when I would use compressors other than the 1176, such as the Focusrite Red, and a few different dbx models, too, and while these VCA compressors weren’t as fast as the 1176 FET (hell, what compressor is? The 1176 is blazingly fast even on its slowest setting) there were times when using various VCA’s in front of the LA2A did produce really nice results…one example that comes to mind was for a hard-strummed acoustic 6 or 12 string. While the 1176/LA2-A is certainly considered to be the “classic” combo for serial compression (and for good reason, it’s a great combo) serial compression doesn’t always HAVE to be that classic combination. FWIW 😊
Love it, thanks for showing this combination. Greatly appreciated. I have them Three and I was not using too much, exactly because I could not find them working as I needed. I know now why. Thanks again. Will play around now.
I work with a grunge singer who I always put through an 1176 at 12:1 first in the signal chain after the pre; then, followed by a tube compressor. Never fails with him. 👊🏻
Many says, the stock compressor sounds same. I'm not shure: my original UA LA2 plug in sounds good in almost every case - i think, some VST has better quality than others - especially Universal Audio Stuff sounds great ! Thank you ! and Greetz from Germany
Well done, that's why engineers' job is to know the specs and behaviour of the tools they use and not just slap stuff in chain blindly. Arguably, compression is the area where most mistakes are made (with eq to follow).
Your 76 settings are world class - I will steal that. I made the mistake of always having the LA2 (CLA) first in the chain, definitely going to change that!
David, with your second vocal example, the very dynamic one. Should you not gain stage the super dynamic phrases? I mean should not even out the vocals first so the compressors won't be working so hard and then recreate the vocal louder parts with volume automation at the end?
@@mixbustv I meant drawing gain across the entire vocal take (to bring the high spikes down ect) to even out the dynamics so the compressors will work more evenly.
Thanks for showing this precisely, I have known this was a thing for a long time, but I have never heard anyone actually explain why and how before and you did it very succinctly thanks.
As mentioned in other comments thanks for explaining the ratio differences. I never would’ve put that together. When I set ratio I really only think in terms of “do I want compression or limiting?” Side question: usually when I use the la2a for vocal smoothing I use it in unison with clip gain. So I’ll set the compressor to be reducing around 1-3 db on the regular, and I’ll clip gain the large peaks to come down to make the compressor hit between 3-5 db of gain reduction. This method is simple and works for my concrete thinking brain, but I’ve never heard anyone talk about it. I’m wondering if it’s something others do.
Others do, I don't, and I don't like it. I only do if someone else recorded and comp'd the vocals and they did an absoltely horrible job (also the singer), because when you clip gain bits and pieces of vocals like that the noise floor is gonna change and the original intent and dynamic is gonna change and it's usually very audible and the performance as a whole doesn't flow. Again, the only scenario when this is acceptable is when the performance and comping is incredibly bad (at which point I wouldn't even mix it and send it back but that's just me)
@@mixbustv makes sense. I actually don’t mind that noise floor change, depending on the genre/song. I just recently did some live acoustic recordings, and I clip gained the vocal on the loud parts. It just sounds like the singer pulled back from the microphone. It actually makes it sound more live to me. Interesting insight nonetheless. Thanks!
DAMN I had no idea about the knee changing! I always struggled with the 1176 grabbing a little too much makes a lot of sense now! Thank you SO much for the vid, learnt so much from this channel 💪
Same, seems counter intuitive, but the higher ratio kinda provides a cleaner, less messy form of compression that I never got from a 1176. Real eye opener
So the way you explained how they work is just so spot on. It's exactly what I hear when using my hardware. The plugins sound good too you can't hit them as hard but very good
How interesting. I‘ve often tended to soften the knee with higher ratios. Guess I‘ll just give my 1176 and La2a plugins a good workout and see where it takes me. It costs next to nothing to keep a few tracks like this around. Thanks for sharing those details.
great video! Why do many engineers do it the other way around? (for example josh gudwin recording with a tube-tech CL1B then going into a 1176 or la2a in the box)?
Why would this be "the other way around" this is mixing first of all. And if you're using compression durin tracking that doesn't mean you're not using more in mixing. The 1B is nothing like the 2A, completely different, variable attack and release, variable ration, differnt opto cell. This is something specifically for THIS combination for this specific scenario not a "do this all the time" thing
my question is what was used for compression or tracking effects on the vocals you tracked as they sound pretty good before you even add any compression of the 1176 or LA2A. ???
I use those two compressors the way you've shown - for the same reason. However, I had no idea about the knee changing with the ratio on 1176. Seems that towards higher ratios it starts working more like a limiter.
More knowledge ….thank you!…have you ever tried a DBX 160 in place of an LA-2A or maybe a Fairchild? Is it feasible to believe it would be the same type of result?
Thank you! Ah... No 😅 definitely not. You got 3 different topologies right there, 2A is an opto, 670 is a Mu and the 160 is a VCA. Not even close, none of them to each other
'Cool Video and thanks for the detailed infos! Have you ever tried using the Distressor in Opto-Mode after an FET-Style Comp like the 1176? Would be intersting how it holds up against that combo you showed us here. Cheers Bernd
that’s really interesting how higher ratios on the 1176 can actually compress less due to the shape of the knee. thanks for sharing!
Yes, amazing. Very surprising
The 1176 is really a limiter. So in theory, the threshold would be higher than in a compressor. If anyone can post the exact threshold specs for the limit and compression settings, that would be interesting.
You notice it when the threshold is already set and you change the ratios and the needles dance or movement changes. Higher ratio less movement.
I noticed that you were knocking a lot of db off on each compressor. Up to 20db (just under 10db each on the word "nightfall"). I read somewhere that when using serial compression like this, you only want to take off 2-3db with each compressor. Was that bad advice?
@@samsonlovesyou with a stable signal 2-4 db is good, but with a crazy dynamic range like he was showing on purpose, that’s probably the way to go. Only to get rid of the high peaks.. but well, who am I to state. As long as it sounds good? 🎉
The Higher Compression ratio trick on the 1176 is an eye opener. Never noticed this till now. Thanks David for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us. Really helps us Engineers a lot. Much love.
Wow the movement on the 76 with 12 ratio was so beautiful the way it was just timed to perfection good job
This is why you're the goat of YT mixing tutorials. All business, no bullshit.
I've heard this same explanation but this was the most in depth, to the point and had a few nuggets of knowledge I had not heard before. NICE!
i’ve been using the 1176 and LA2A completely wrong for years before this video. thank you David!
Thanks for this, nobody ever seems to talk about the inner workings of these compressor types. Seems pretty critical to understand this stuff.
David, you always have that key piece of info that fills in the blanks for guys like me that have been home schooler students of this black art for a long time, and even though I have learned way more then I needed to, there is always something new ans useful to learn to put more pieces of the puzzle together. The variable knee on the 1176 and the difference in release times between the units are true pro tips for sure, and I always appreciate that you have better demo audio then even the pro manufacturers do. They choose some crappy rapper that is basically talking and you give us people actually singing and singing well. You can do this because you are working and building great relationships with your artists (some more than others, for sure, I'm prerty sure your girl don't mind) Love it man, its always a pleasure watching you grow and growing with you. You truly love audio engineering and it shows man. Thanks for sharing the love
Great video. So practical and useful. And short. No waffle. Thanks.
Great explanation. Never heard such a detailed explanation and demo of why these two are so favored in tandem. I'm sure, once again as with some of your other videos, I'll be using it as a reference. Thanks again!
Thank you for the support! Much appreciated
Awesome! Thanks for making the video short and right to the point.
Great tip. I've been banging my head on a Jazz record I'm working on where the vocals are so dynamic. Never thought about using the high ratio to slam the peaks really fast. Once I made the4 changes to my 1176, the vocals sound immediately natural and not squished. Thank you thank you!!!!
Amazing video David!!
The release curve explanation was pure gold, I feel like this type of knowledge is what separates the amateur/semi-pro "mixers" to the real world class professional mixing engineers. Perfection is on the details.
I know it would be a ton of work, but I'd love to see a series of in depth analogue classic pieces. Something like "what makes this song great" from Rick Beato but about gear "what makes this piece great" and talk about the general aspects and then some quirks unique to that piece that made it a staple in most professional studios.
Dr Mix has in depth videos on analog synth gear.
Best video you’ve released in a while! Great explanation of this trick and showing the a/b of it all. I often default to an LA2A. Though that’s because I often found when i put an 1176 in front of it i couldn’t for the life of me get the right setting it always felt too aggressive, and the LA2A often did it good enough. Sometimes I’ll do a distressor before the LA2A though. I had NO idea that the higher ratio made such a difference! I knew the knee changed, but didn’t realize it was so drastic. I usually had it on 8 ratio. I’ll try 12 now. It’ll add that little bit more control and transparent sound. Thanks!
Loved the video! Thank you for lifting that veil.
Got the LA-2A yesterday. Hear a lot about it. Time to master it and put it to use.
Woah 🤯 the step with the high 12x ratio makes mega sense. You think it's so simple but then often overlook details like that. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. 🙏🏻 greets from south west germany near the City saarbrooklyn.
I’ve had these plugins for so long. Great tips!
Great video. A classic example of how people make their life so complicated without not even knowing the basics of the simplest compressors with 2-3 knobs.
You technique’s help me so much, Might be too advance for beginners.. Your a level 5 teacher
An absolutely outstanding and clear explanation of the more nuanced aspects of both processors. I like the way you used r-comp to easily illustrate your point!
Very well explained
Ok David getting it...
That cleared it up for me . Sounds way better with the higher ratio. Thanks man your advice is always rock solid.
the waves electro isn't like a 1176, it can be closer to a tube tech if for exemple your measure a tube tech softube or an elysia alpha. the reduction is closer to an exponential curve, than a 1176 or even LA2A more like logarithmic curve. and what you describe and we see in electro mode correspond to exponential like if itt "hold a little bit the compression" and after release
Amazing Tips, was beautiful see this combination in this particular voice
best explanation I've found. Thanks bro
David thank you, now it’s all make sense.
I never use 1176 like compressor cue I always put the attack knob off to get what I want. 😎😎😎
Cuz I always use 3 comps on my vocals chain.
Great to read/ see/ hear any info on this combo. Awesome! Thanks.
This is the best short video on how those two compressors work ever!
Awesome information!
I saw many videos about the 1176, but I love about this video that you gave new insights about the knee behavior on higher ratios. Didn't know that. Also a great explanation about the release curves of the two units. With this background info I actually know what I do when I apply this technique!
Wow that ratio on the 1176 was so interesting. I need to comp “harder” on that thing to get “less” compression.
This was extremely helpful to watch, I understand using multiple compressors way better now
wow I've never heard a lot of what you talked about actually, definately learned a few things, thank you!
Great combo for acoustic too.
You just earned yourself a subscriber! i've been learning how to mix my own vocals and this helps me understand the process a bit more!
i love your work and your channel bro!!! hugs from Brazil
Back in the days when I was still using HW compressors, my go-to compression for vocals was almost always serial compression, with a later 70’s model black face 1176(LN) first, then into an early 70’s LA-2A.
It’s a great combination for vocals, but also very good for bass, and “some” electric guitars as well.
But, there were also occasions when I would use compressors other than the 1176, such as the Focusrite Red, and a few different dbx models, too, and while these VCA compressors weren’t as fast as the 1176 FET (hell, what compressor is? The 1176 is blazingly fast even on its slowest setting) there were times when using various VCA’s in front of the LA2A did produce really nice results…one example that comes to mind was for a hard-strummed acoustic 6 or 12 string.
While the 1176/LA2-A is certainly considered to be the “classic” combo for serial compression (and for good reason, it’s a great combo) serial compression doesn’t always HAVE to be that classic combination.
FWIW 😊
Danke!
Thank you so much for the support! 🙏🙌
Love it, thanks for showing this combination. Greatly appreciated. I have them Three and I was not using too much, exactly because I could not find them working as I needed. I know now why. Thanks again. Will play around now.
@5:24 - LA2A (without 1176) - opens the vocal - makes it sound alive vs squashing the singer - unless that is what you want
Please go thru all my videos and leave 3 comments or more each, more money for me lol
@@mixbustv Glad to help you get rich - your videos are always great - Thanks!!!!
I'm loving these new short videos, thanks a lot fot giving so many tips for free. E complimenti per il tuo canale.
That's also my go-to combo for vocals. I love the AE1176 too. You can also use 1176 and Fairchild 660 on vocals and it sounds amazing as well.
@taeknowsyes 😅
I found that the UAD LA-2A has an interesting sound, it will be interesting to try it on vocals.
Wow, thank you! Very eye opening.
I work with a grunge singer who I always put through an 1176 at 12:1 first in the signal chain after the pre; then, followed by a tube compressor. Never fails with him. 👊🏻
Thanks for the info
thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Many says, the stock compressor sounds same. I'm not shure: my original UA LA2 plug in sounds good in almost every case - i think, some VST has better quality than others - especially Universal Audio Stuff sounds great ! Thank you ! and Greetz from Germany
I remember UAD explaining this technique many years ago but you know a lot more, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Great lesson given here. Nicely done. Thanks.
Well done, that's why engineers' job is to know the specs and behaviour of the tools they use and not just slap stuff in chain blindly. Arguably, compression is the area where most mistakes are made (with eq to follow).
Great description of how this combo works, side note, what brand/where did you get that shirt? classy but modern !
Brilliant! I will do the same only with a RETRO STA level.
Super educational take on this classic combo!
Awesome tip, thank you!
thank you very much, i’ve seen many conflicting versions of how to use this combination, now it makes much more sense
Your 76 settings are world class - I will steal that. I made the mistake of always having the LA2 (CLA) first in the chain, definitely going to change that!
David, with your second vocal example, the very dynamic one. Should you not gain stage the super dynamic phrases? I mean should not even out the vocals first so the compressors won't be working so hard and then recreate the vocal louder parts with volume automation at the end?
Gain stage with what? Clip gain? Try it, see how it sounds 😄
@@mixbustv I meant drawing gain across the entire vocal take (to bring the high spikes down ect) to even out the dynamics so the compressors will work more evenly.
Great, as always. Thanks, David
Awesome. Bet it's even better when using hardware!
Thanks for showing this precisely, I have known this was a thing for a long time, but I have never heard anyone actually explain why and how before and you did it very succinctly thanks.
GREAT VIDEOO
really good and informative tutorial
Great Mr.David!!!! Oh Captain , My Captain!!!!
1st Example
LA-2A only: 2:52
1176 & La-2A: 3:27
Second example:
LA-2A only: 5:23
1176 & La-2A: 5:12
As mentioned in other comments thanks for explaining the ratio differences. I never would’ve put that together. When I set ratio I really only think in terms of “do I want compression or limiting?”
Side question: usually when I use the la2a for vocal smoothing I use it in unison with clip gain. So I’ll set the compressor to be reducing around 1-3 db on the regular, and I’ll clip gain the large peaks to come down to make the compressor hit between 3-5 db of gain reduction. This method is simple and works for my concrete thinking brain, but I’ve never heard anyone talk about it. I’m wondering if it’s something others do.
Others do, I don't, and I don't like it. I only do if someone else recorded and comp'd the vocals and they did an absoltely horrible job (also the singer), because when you clip gain bits and pieces of vocals like that the noise floor is gonna change and the original intent and dynamic is gonna change and it's usually very audible and the performance as a whole doesn't flow. Again, the only scenario when this is acceptable is when the performance and comping is incredibly bad (at which point I wouldn't even mix it and send it back but that's just me)
@@mixbustv makes sense. I actually don’t mind that noise floor change, depending on the genre/song. I just recently did some live acoustic recordings, and I clip gained the vocal on the loud parts. It just sounds like the singer pulled back from the microphone. It actually makes it sound more live to me. Interesting insight nonetheless. Thanks!
DAMN I had no idea about the knee changing! I always struggled with the 1176 grabbing a little too much makes a lot of sense now! Thank you SO much for the vid, learnt so much from this channel 💪
Same, seems counter intuitive, but the higher ratio kinda provides a cleaner, less messy form of compression that I never got from a 1176. Real eye opener
So the way you explained how they work is just so spot on. It's exactly what I hear when using my hardware.
The plugins sound good too you can't hit them as hard but very good
Ah, I knew the most of this but I did NOT know that higher ratios on the 1176 changes the knee!? Great video and thnx for charing this!
Are the compressor inserted in the channel or is it in parallel? Thanks a lot for the video, very awesome!
In what sequence.... is it most effective....The 1176 before the LA2A or the other way around?
Great explanation of release differences!
Awesome video David🤘
Yup a classic combo.
Great tip, thank you!!
Totally forgot about the knee change. Great tip. 🤘
Good explanation
I'm using the Distressor before the LA2A. Sounds nicer! :)
Great video super useful info
How interesting. I‘ve often tended to soften the knee with higher ratios. Guess I‘ll just give my 1176 and La2a plugins a good workout and see where it takes me. It costs next to nothing to keep a few tracks like this around. Thanks for sharing those details.
thanks man dope class about dynamics
DUUDDEE what a great explanation
there is no hf knob in free la2a how much is it different from the actual la2a paid bundle
Okayyyy ! ... I see ... Perfect tips.
great video!
Why do many engineers do it the other way around? (for example josh gudwin recording with a tube-tech CL1B then going into a 1176 or la2a in the box)?
Why would this be "the other way around" this is mixing first of all. And if you're using compression durin tracking that doesn't mean you're not using more in mixing. The 1B is nothing like the 2A, completely different, variable attack and release, variable ration, differnt opto cell. This is something specifically for THIS combination for this specific scenario not a "do this all the time" thing
I love your content sir ❤
I was just needing a video on this, let’s gooo
thanks for the ratio tip with the 1176
Thanks for the video and free plug-in bro.
my question is what was used for compression or tracking effects on the vocals you tracked as they sound pretty good before you even add any compression of the 1176 or LA2A. ???
It's pretty obvious by looking at the waveform that there was absolutely nothing in tracking. Just a good singer and a good mic
Fantastic demo and instructions David!
Ahhhhhhhh that detail about the 1176!!!!!!
Best free or cheap 1176?
I use those two compressors the way you've shown - for the same reason. However, I had no idea about the knee changing with the ratio on 1176. Seems that towards higher ratios it starts working more like a limiter.
More knowledge ….thank you!…have you ever tried a DBX 160 in place of an LA-2A or maybe a Fairchild? Is it feasible to believe it would be the same type of result?
Thank you! Ah... No 😅 definitely not. You got 3 different topologies right there, 2A is an opto, 670 is a Mu and the 160 is a VCA. Not even close, none of them to each other
@@mixbustv thanks for answering my question….i appreciate that!
'Cool Video and thanks for the detailed infos! Have you ever tried using the Distressor in Opto-Mode after an FET-Style Comp like the 1176? Would be intersting how it holds up against that combo you showed us here. Cheers Bernd
I love the Distressor, its opto mode tho is by far the setting I used the least
@@mixbustv thanks, David!
Super interesting! Thanks