I don't have a model railway (yet), but I've always thought that I'd like to have all my trains on display in a wall cabinet. Something like the sliding tray but vertically - or on a sort of carousel. Much more engineering involved, of course, unless the cabinet's fixed and you run the trains up a mountain and into their shelf.
@@schenckinator5427There is actually/was a company in the UK that sells this type of storage system commercially. They used to exhibit at British model railway exhibitions, although i dont know if they still exist or are still trading and i can't remember their name. They were made in N Gauge and 00 Gauge, and the N gauge version had more storage racks than the 00 gauge version.
Discovered your videos about six months ago and literally binge watched them. I ve gone back to analogue control after using DCC since 1995 and these videos are refreshing and helping me building my layout.
Hi. Interesting move BACK to analogue. It would be useful/interesting to see a video on your thought processes - might be helpful to others either struggling with DCC or undecided about a move away from DC.
I once saw a layout once that had the main storage yard as part of the layout, and they had 2 or 3 switchers switching out cars and building trains. They also had a secondary storage yard that was hidden for getting rolling stock on and off the layout, but other than that all trains went to the main yard. They let me take over one of the switchers when the engineer had to leave for one reason or another, and every move is timed so as to not foul the main (which divided the yard into 4 and 12 track yards) for too long. It added to the realism for the guests, and meant that more people could run the layout at once. It was a very large layout - 50 x 30 feet if I'm correct - but it was still fairly constrained, and you could only run 3 trains in either direction if you wanted to give the switchers enough time to cross the main without bringing the whole layout to a complete halt. If you're making a large layout, I would recommend trying to work the storage yard into the layout if it's possible.
So finally, the RUclips channel I’ve been looking for, and from 2014, why so long, I’ll never know, just glad I found it. Lots of catching up to do, thanks so much.
Excellent summary and demonstration of pros and cons. Given me some ideas also from other contributors in the comments. Nice to see your confidence in your great track work with the tight track spacing in the storage areas, just shows what you can do if you are careful, well done. Best regards and thanks for the info. Stephen
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Just the way it should be. Its great in our hobby that, with few exceptions, folk try and help each other out; you never stop learning......
For terminating trains consider dead-end sidings with tracks all leading into a turntable at the stops-end. Trains come in, locomotive detaches and moved forward onto the turntable. Locomotive can then be turned /released via an emptied track. In addition, a few short sidings for storing turned locomotives at the throat-end leaves the locomotives ready for use. For non-scenic sections the Fleischmann turntable is worth considering due to its graduated mechanism. Used this on several layout to great effect! 🙂
Gents, great ideas on the TT. I have a spare Hornby one that would be perfect for this as sits on the baseboard. Am looking at a lower level storage fed off the main layout by a kick back siding running behind the telly (wife wouldn’t let me use the other half of the room) so I can drop a level. The run round loop perfectly complements the TT use on the flat storage. Many thanks for the ideas. Best regards Stephen
For dead end fiddle yard sidings, I use a Peco loco lift with a built in uncoupler. Run the train onto the siding with the lift fitted at the end, loco straight onto the lift and uncouple, remove the loco and pull the coaches into the space vacated by the loco, saving about 1 carriage length of track for an extra coach etc. and no need for isolation. The loco can be stored or turned and run round on a spare road when needed.
@@InverhavonRailways Thanks John I got an email advising of your reply too, more food for thought! Great idea on saving space as well as a small short lift means less chance of a handling accident.
Great video, due to the space available to me (or do I mean due to the ever expanding size of my collection?) I think I will have to use a combination of cassettes and a yard on a lower level, so this was very helpful.
Thanks for watching! Greetings to Amsterdam - enjoyed a recent visit to the Netherlands for the Ladies Football European Championships a few years ago.
Great video I will be getting stuck into this soon on my channel and it’s the opening display picture is what sucked me in. Since that’s what I will do but I have come up with an ingenious little system to make it even easier can’t wait to share with you all
Peter Denny built two different types of train turntable. The one used when Leighton Buzzard is operated at exhibitions is accessed by a single track. The turntable has curved ends and is rotated slightly for each train movement until all trains are facing the wrong way, when it is rotated through 180 degrees. The more famous "Denny pattern" fiddle yard is the one on the permanent Buckingham layout, at the end of the double track main line. This is accessed from a fan of points such that each siding can be accessed from either main line. This fiddle yard has flat ends. When all the trains are facing the wrong way, the baseboard with the sidings on is moved a few inches away from the baseboard with the points on, rotated through 180 degrees and pushed back into place but otherwise does not rotate. One advantage of this version is that the points can be operated automatically, with only the reversal being carried out manually. A variation on this is to lift the siding board off and either reverse it or replace it with a similar one containing different stock.
Out of all the videos I've seen, This has been one of the most useful in regards to This aspect of model railroading. I try not to save too many videos lol But this one was definitely worth it and gave me many more ideas and many more options And at no point was I told this is right and this is wrong and do it this way because I said so,. Instead I got Here are the options I know of this is what has worked for me this has not worked for me but might work for you , and here's a couple of things you might not have considered... THAAT Was a video well worth watching , like I said in regards to this aspect of model railroading. What to do with Engines and freight That have exited stage right
This actually highlights a bit of a difference between US and UK layouts. In the UK, it seems to be more common to model individual scenes, each representing an industry, town or yard along the main line, while in the US it's far more common to model a continuous line, with the "boring" bits selectively compressed rather than outright omitted. We do still use staging/storage/fiddle yards but they're often smaller relative to overall layout size than in the UK because more of the line is modeled. Your storage yard seems to be bigger than the staging yard on the Orlando N-Trak Club's permanent layout, and curiously seems to be positioned in the middle of your line to function as an actual marshaling yard, rather than at the end points to hide a continuous loop.
Yes, the UK and US modellers make different layouts but the differences are very interesting to play with - we are able to learn a lot from each other. The US guys do have the benfit of (usually) having loads more space than we do - space always seems to be at a premium here and very few British houses have useable basements.
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 I will say that space isn't so easy to come by in the US as it used to be due to rising living costs. Even so, even with smaller layouts the focus is more on modelling a continuous route rather than individual scenes here - usually, if space is at a premium here people end up modeling smaller lines rather than just a few parts of a larger line.
Your comment at 7:52 about doing things that way around being a cheat. That's not a cheat. It's a simple solution to the problem. *Almost* all of the time, the simple solution is the best in terms of building something and being able to maintain it. That applies to a vast array of subjects, not just model making
The simple solutions are often the best ones - most of the time, we try to find the complicated, fancy answer and it never works!!! To be honest, the simple answer normally occurs to me about a week after I have started struggling with an issue - and then I wonder why I never thought of it earlier :-)
Hmm - in 4mm scale, a mile is 64ft approx so my circuit is a little over a mile round. Most stations are longer than that from outer limits to outer limits. Its all relative I guess!!
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Indeed. and an interesting program it was. However I've had three layouts over the years all smaller than that and certainly not prototypical. I do have three circuits and four alternative routes if I want single train working, call it forty feet. One has to fit what one can. No turn table, there is however a triangle based on a two road engine shed. In the centre is a small village. I painted my own scenery onto bits of carboard and I have an elevated level which is a challenge for a loco with a load. It took a bit of figuring and chopping and changing. If I live long enough, I'll build a longer one. My weak spot, electrics.🙂
Hi. In the smaller scales, cartridges are naturally smaller and therefore work better. We use them in N at the club with great success. In Z, they will be very short although the tolerances in making the track alignment gets more critical. The trick is to make the cartridge first, set it into the "bay" and then, when it's in the right position, lay the track. That way, you get guaranteed alignment.
Situation I am facing is no room for running loops, so I'm looking either at dead end or traverser. Both of which require a loco hold point at the head, and multiple loco storage and turntable for the layout end - this I don't have an issue with. But what about the guards vans?! I don't really like the idea of manhandling the vans when the train is reversed, I could run freight with a van at each end, so they can run bidirectional like passenger trains can. Any thoughts on this matter?
Hi Neil If you have the space, make the traverser into a turntable - its going to depend on the length of your trains and the space you have available. Alternatively, cartridges can be used or a cassette system where each cassette has multiple tracks. I have seen a cassette system used as a sector plate - lift one set of 4 sidings off and replace it with another! Also bear in mind that all storage options can be curved, even traversers. PM me a trackplan and your thoughts?
Good afternoon,only recently been viewing lots of your excellent you tube videos.When you built your shed did you need any planning permissions etc? Any tips from your shed build please.
Hi Geoff. No planning required but a long discussion with Building Regs - these differ in each area so check locally. Best advice = check with planning and B/Regs BEFORE you commit to a building - saves time and money. Also, have a professional put down your pad. Mine is 9 inches of concrete on a 6 inch hardcore base.
No set height but you need to be able to get you hand/hands in to sort problems with rolling stock on the back rail. You also need clearance for electrics and point motors etc on the underside of the top board, never assume you will not add extra items to the top board that require extra clearance in 2 years time for example. The clearannce for the last item is not just the item size but the fact you have to do all the fitting/wiring while you work in the height you have allowed yourself! The more height you allow the better but then you need a bigger helix or much longer run down to it
Hi Chris. You need a minimum of 70mm according to the BR Clearance Standards so that's a good start. To be able to reach/touch/lift/change your trains at a lower level, double this would be ideal. On the first draft of the Yarslow project, I had low-level storage with a large loop so trains entered on one line and left on the other. The line down was at a steeper grade than the line back up. I abandoned the idea for a couple of reasons, one of which was the result of haulage tests carried with the locos I had and the lengths of trains I wanted. 30 wagons and 8 coaches on a rising gradient on a curve is a LOT of rolling resistance and the steam engines couldn't be guaranteed to cope. Moral of the story - use low-level by all means but check gradients VERY carefully before you commit. (same goes for helix/spiral tracks going up/down levels). If you run modern diesels or short trains, you are in a better place than me!
Great summary of all the possibilities here. I have subscribed! The cassette or cartridge system is nice, but as you said, it does seem very prone to mishap - esp if your layout has long maximum train lengths. I love the idea of a set of vertical sidings (see link below) on a train lift, but whether I could actually build one myself or afford one ready made is a very different question! I always thought that the concept of a scaled down vertical carousel (Google "vertical carousel" to see what one looks like) should somehow be applicable to model railway storage but I don't know of anyone who has built exactly such a thing. Has it been done? I could never find one. ruclips.net/video/Yu5nGdCHKBE/видео.html
Thanks for the sub! Vertical traversers were a "thing" a few years ago and you could buy one commercially made but the were very expensive and when I spoke to them about 34 x 10 ft trains, they took a step backwards :-( There have been a few built privately but a good helping of engineering skills are a prerequisite. For something that has a fair chance of working 99% of the time, its best (in my view) to stick to the old favourite storage options.
I don't have a model railway (yet), but I've always thought that I'd like to have all my trains on display in a wall cabinet. Something like the sliding tray but vertically - or on a sort of carousel. Much more engineering involved, of course, unless the cabinet's fixed and you run the trains up a mountain and into their shelf.
Hi. A wall cabinet to hold train cartridges is a good compromise!
😅
I did that on my model railroad using linear rails and a stepper motor driving a treated rod. It is a lot oft work, but very space efficient
@@schenckinator5427There is actually/was a company in the UK that sells this type of storage system commercially. They used to exhibit at British model railway exhibitions, although i dont know if they still exist or are still trading and i can't remember their name. They were made in N Gauge and 00 Gauge, and the N gauge version had more storage racks than the 00 gauge version.
Discovered your videos about six months ago and literally binge watched them. I ve gone back to analogue control after using DCC since 1995 and these videos are refreshing and helping me building my layout.
Hi. Interesting move BACK to analogue. It would be useful/interesting to see a video on your thought processes - might be helpful to others either struggling with DCC or undecided about a move away from DC.
I once saw a layout once that had the main storage yard as part of the layout, and they had 2 or 3 switchers switching out cars and building trains. They also had a secondary storage yard that was hidden for getting rolling stock on and off the layout, but other than that all trains went to the main yard. They let me take over one of the switchers when the engineer had to leave for one reason or another, and every move is timed so as to not foul the main (which divided the yard into 4 and 12 track yards) for too long. It added to the realism for the guests, and meant that more people could run the layout at once. It was a very large layout - 50 x 30 feet if I'm correct - but it was still fairly constrained, and you could only run 3 trains in either direction if you wanted to give the switchers enough time to cross the main without bringing the whole layout to a complete halt. If you're making a large layout, I would recommend trying to work the storage yard into the layout if it's possible.
I agree that one of the keys to a successful layout is the storage
I absolutely lov your Bite Size Buts and I'm always looking forward to the next addition to the series. Thanks, man.
You are welcome.
I love bite size butts as well! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
@@qqleq :)
So finally, the RUclips channel I’ve been looking for, and from 2014, why so long, I’ll never know, just glad I found it.
Lots of catching up to do, thanks so much.
Welcome!!
Excellent summary and demonstration of pros and cons. Given me some ideas also from other contributors in the comments. Nice to see your confidence in your great track work with the tight track spacing in the storage areas, just shows what you can do if you are careful, well done. Best regards and thanks for the info. Stephen
Hi Stephen Contributors comments are always welcome on these Bite Size videos - all opinions welcome!
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Just the way it should be. Its great in our hobby that, with few exceptions, folk try and help each other out; you never stop learning......
For terminating trains consider dead-end sidings with tracks all leading into a turntable at the stops-end.
Trains come in, locomotive detaches and moved forward onto the turntable.
Locomotive can then be turned /released via an emptied track.
In addition, a few short sidings for storing turned locomotives at the throat-end leaves the locomotives ready for use.
For non-scenic sections the Fleischmann turntable is worth considering due to its graduated mechanism.
Used this on several layout to great effect! 🙂
Thanks for sharing. Always glad to hear of variations and new ideas
And a small slider could be used for moving locomotives from storage track to turntable, then to a runaround track or locomotive storage area.
Gents, great ideas on the TT. I have a spare Hornby one that would be perfect for this as sits on the baseboard. Am looking at a lower level storage fed off the main layout by a kick back siding running behind the telly (wife wouldn’t let me use the other half of the room) so I can drop a level. The run round loop perfectly complements the TT use on the flat storage. Many thanks for the ideas. Best regards Stephen
For dead end fiddle yard sidings, I use a Peco loco lift with a built in uncoupler. Run the train onto the siding with the lift fitted at the end, loco straight onto the lift and uncouple, remove the loco and pull the coaches into the space vacated by the loco, saving about 1 carriage length of track for an extra coach etc. and no need for isolation. The loco can be stored or turned and run round on a spare road when needed.
@@InverhavonRailways Thanks John I got an email advising of your reply too, more food for thought! Great idea on saving space as well as a small short lift means less chance of a handling accident.
Great video, due to the space available to me (or do I mean due to the ever expanding size of my collection?) I think I will have to use a combination of cassettes and a yard on a lower level, so this was very helpful.
Glad it helps!
Clear explanation, nice video.
Thanks for sharing. Love from Amsterdam.
Thanks for watching! Greetings to Amsterdam - enjoyed a recent visit to the Netherlands for the Ladies Football European Championships a few years ago.
Very interesting with some great information 👍🏻
Cheers!
Great video I will be getting stuck into this soon on my channel and it’s the opening display picture is what sucked me in. Since that’s what I will do but I have come up with an ingenious little system to make it even easier can’t wait to share with you all
We are all waiting...........!!
Peter Denny built two different types of train turntable.
The one used when Leighton Buzzard is operated at exhibitions is accessed by a single track. The turntable has curved ends and is rotated slightly for each train movement until all trains are facing the wrong way, when it is rotated through 180 degrees.
The more famous "Denny pattern" fiddle yard is the one on the permanent Buckingham layout, at the end of the double track main line. This is accessed from a fan of points such that each siding can be accessed from either main line. This fiddle yard has flat ends. When all the trains are facing the wrong way, the baseboard with the sidings on is moved a few inches away from the baseboard with the points on, rotated through 180 degrees and pushed back into place but otherwise does not rotate. One advantage of this version is that the points can be operated automatically, with only the reversal being carried out manually.
A variation on this is to lift the siding board off and either reverse it or replace it with a similar one containing different stock.
We can still learn so much from the pioneers - Denny, Ahern, Beale and others
Out of all the videos I've seen, This has been one of the most useful in regards to This aspect of model railroading. I try not to save too many videos lol But this one was definitely worth it and gave me many more ideas and many more options And at no point was I told this is right and this is wrong and do it this way because I said so,. Instead I got Here are the options I know of this is what has worked for me this has not worked for me but might work for you , and here's a couple of things you might not have considered... THAAT Was a video well worth watching , like I said in regards to this aspect of model railroading. What to do with Engines and freight That have exited stage right
Thanks for your comment.
Very well explained. Thanks for sharing this :)
My pleasure!
Super informative and well presented. Thank you that’s really helped
Thanks!
This actually highlights a bit of a difference between US and UK layouts. In the UK, it seems to be more common to model individual scenes, each representing an industry, town or yard along the main line, while in the US it's far more common to model a continuous line, with the "boring" bits selectively compressed rather than outright omitted. We do still use staging/storage/fiddle yards but they're often smaller relative to overall layout size than in the UK because more of the line is modeled. Your storage yard seems to be bigger than the staging yard on the Orlando N-Trak Club's permanent layout, and curiously seems to be positioned in the middle of your line to function as an actual marshaling yard, rather than at the end points to hide a continuous loop.
Yes, the UK and US modellers make different layouts but the differences are very interesting to play with - we are able to learn a lot from each other. The US guys do have the benfit of (usually) having loads more space than we do - space always seems to be at a premium here and very few British houses have useable basements.
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 I will say that space isn't so easy to come by in the US as it used to be due to rising living costs. Even so, even with smaller layouts the focus is more on modelling a continuous route rather than individual scenes here - usually, if space is at a premium here people end up modeling smaller lines rather than just a few parts of a larger line.
Amazing video, Thank you for sharing
Thanks
Lots of useful information, thank you very much!
Glad it was helpful!
Well made and presented video. 👏
Thank you kindly!
Hello your video is also very nice I like it greetings 👍
Thank you very much
Good stuff. Some great solutions!
Thanks 👍
Your comment at 7:52 about doing things that way around being a cheat.
That's not a cheat. It's a simple solution to the problem. *Almost* all of the time, the simple solution is the best in terms of building something and being able to maintain it. That applies to a vast array of subjects, not just model making
The simple solutions are often the best ones - most of the time, we try to find the complicated, fancy answer and it never works!!! To be honest, the simple answer normally occurs to me about a week after I have started struggling with an issue - and then I wonder why I never thought of it earlier :-)
I had to chuckle when you called 27 x 13 ft a limited space😊. I have limited space, Like 8'6 by 3'6
Hmm - in 4mm scale, a mile is 64ft approx so my circuit is a little over a mile round. Most stations are longer than that from outer limits to outer limits. Its all relative I guess!!
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Indeed. and an interesting program it was. However I've had three layouts over the years all smaller than that and certainly not prototypical. I do have three circuits and four alternative routes if I want single train working, call it forty feet. One has to fit what one can. No turn table, there is however a triangle based on a two road engine shed. In the centre is a small village. I painted my own scenery onto bits of carboard and I have an elevated level which is a challenge for a loco with a load. It took a bit of figuring and chopping and changing. If I live long enough, I'll build a longer one. My weak spot, electrics.🙂
More commonly known as Staging. Staging tracks are where your industries ship stuff to and get stuff from, its "to parts unknown".
Whatever its called around the World, its vital!!
Great video. I first thought it was about real life trains. But your video is a bit quiet
Thanks for your feedback
I have a starter model railway thing, it’s really small, but I have a sidings, it’s around 6x2ft
We all start with something small - some of us with meglomaniac tendencies want bigger!!
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 yeah! Only have 3 locomotives and only 1 and a half of them run properly lol!
That was so good.
Thank you for your comment
Cartridges might work well for my z scale
Hi. In the smaller scales, cartridges are naturally smaller and therefore work better. We use them in N at the club with great success. In Z, they will be very short although the tolerances in making the track alignment gets more critical. The trick is to make the cartridge first, set it into the "bay" and then, when it's in the right position, lay the track. That way, you get guaranteed alignment.
Situation I am facing is no room for running loops, so I'm looking either at dead end or traverser. Both of which require a loco hold point at the head, and multiple loco storage and turntable for the layout end - this I don't have an issue with. But what about the guards vans?! I don't really like the idea of manhandling the vans when the train is reversed, I could run freight with a van at each end, so they can run bidirectional like passenger trains can. Any thoughts on this matter?
Hi Neil If you have the space, make the traverser into a turntable - its going to depend on the length of your trains and the space you have available. Alternatively, cartridges can be used or a cassette system where each cassette has multiple tracks. I have seen a cassette system used as a sector plate - lift one set of 4 sidings off and replace it with another! Also bear in mind that all storage options can be curved, even traversers. PM me a trackplan and your thoughts?
1 way operating direct current.
Good afternoon,only recently been viewing lots of your excellent you tube videos.When you built your shed did you need any planning permissions etc? Any tips from your shed build please.
Hi Geoff. No planning required but a long discussion with Building Regs - these differ in each area so check locally. Best advice = check with planning and B/Regs BEFORE you commit to a building - saves time and money. Also, have a professional put down your pad. Mine is 9 inches of concrete on a 6 inch hardcore base.
if u want to have a storage yard on a lower level whats min height down u need to go?
No set height but you need to be able to get you hand/hands in to sort problems with rolling stock on the back rail.
You also need clearance for electrics and point motors etc on the underside of the top board, never assume you will not add extra items to the top board that require extra clearance in 2 years time for example. The clearannce for the last item is not just the item size but the fact you have to do all the fitting/wiring while you work in the height you have allowed yourself!
The more height you allow the better but then you need a bigger helix or much longer run down to it
Hi Chris. You need a minimum of 70mm according to the BR Clearance Standards so that's a good start. To be able to reach/touch/lift/change your trains at a lower level, double this would be ideal. On the first draft of the Yarslow project, I had low-level storage with a large loop so trains entered on one line and left on the other. The line down was at a steeper grade than the line back up. I abandoned the idea for a couple of reasons, one of which was the result of haulage tests carried with the locos I had and the lengths of trains I wanted. 30 wagons and 8 coaches on a rising gradient on a curve is a LOT of rolling resistance and the steam engines couldn't be guaranteed to cope. Moral of the story - use low-level by all means but check gradients VERY carefully before you commit. (same goes for helix/spiral tracks going up/down levels). If you run modern diesels or short trains, you are in a better place than me!
Great summary of all the possibilities here. I have subscribed!
The cassette or cartridge system is nice, but as you said, it does seem very prone to mishap - esp if your layout has long maximum train lengths.
I love the idea of a set of vertical sidings (see link below) on a train lift, but whether I could actually build one myself or afford one ready made is a very different question!
I always thought that the concept of a scaled down vertical carousel (Google "vertical carousel" to see what one looks like) should somehow be applicable to model railway storage but I don't know of anyone who has built exactly such a thing. Has it been done? I could never find one.
ruclips.net/video/Yu5nGdCHKBE/видео.html
Thanks for the sub! Vertical traversers were a "thing" a few years ago and you could buy one commercially made but the were very expensive and when I spoke to them about 34 x 10 ft trains, they took a step backwards :-( There have been a few built privately but a good helping of engineering skills are a prerequisite. For something that has a fair chance of working 99% of the time, its best (in my view) to stick to the old favourite storage options.