Every train in the steam and early diesel era needs one. But what are the basic rules and why, in some instances can you find 2 of these unique vehicles in a train?
A very interesting and practical video for all those who wish to operate in a realistic manner. Well done. May I add a fact that is pertinent to the content of this video? Across the network it a loco crew would often work in tandem with a guard in his brake van throughout a shift. They would work as a pair from duty to duty. These pairings were often permanent and would last from shift to shift or even longer. This did mean that if a crew for example, left a train for onward movement to another railway or region at an exchange siding and did not have a return working to their home shed it was not uncommon for a light engine movement to include the partner brake van and guard.
HI Mark. Thanks for adding this info. The "Loco + Brake" is a useful extra train. I guess those of us with a terminus may have the need to run this type of train if there was an inbalance of traffic either in or out. Very few of us in the UK follow the US pattern of operating where such imbalances result in light engines/brakes - we either ignore them or ignore them!!
That came from from a retired engineman whilst I was exhibiting a club layout that had loco and brake van movements in the sequence through a colliery exchange sideing. @@yarslowmodelrailway1
Thanks Barry a very good summary. One fairly common feature you missed - used mainly in areas that had unbalanced freight flows was the engine and brake van or vans ( I think this was lamp code G) Where a loaded mineral train may run to say 20 wagons a single loco could haul up to 60 or so empties back to the mine resulting in an accumulation of locos and brake vans at one end of the line. These then worked back to the traffic source as engine and brake van(s). This was also used at the start of some pick-up/trip freights where the engine and brake would work from the shed/main yard to the sidings where the wagons were waiting for collection.
Hi Jonathon. I did cover this in the "train types" video I think, but you are right in saying that I forgot them in this video - apologies. A Loco + Brake is a simple way of adding an extra train based in a very short siding in the storage area.
Excellent. Don't forget Southern's bogie Queen Mary goods brake vans. Not only were brake vans fitted or unfitted, some were through piped as well. The train vacuum brakes didn't operate the brakes on the brake van (the guard could do that manually with the hand wheel), but there was a valve in the van where the guard could apply the train brakes by opening the brake pipe to atmosphere to lose the vacuum. It wasn't uncommon to on train of mixed fitted and unfitted stock to have the fitted stock at the head of the train to provide additional brake force. This was commonly known as a fitted head. I've also seen diesel brake tenders substituted for fitted brake vans. On two occasions I saw on the coal trains to Tolworth, a class 73 with on one occasion a fitted GWR toad, and the other occasion a Queen Mary acting as brake tenders. The traffic originating from Acton on the GW.
I find your railway practice videos so interesting and visually enjoyable thanks to your beautiful modelling. Thank you for doing them, I can't wait for the next. Btw, I can hear you fine with the sound of the trains.
hi, great video. i have two LBSC hornby brake vans which are used all the time and go on any train, also a Pill box van, as we are all playing with toy trains i don't think we should take them too seriously.what ever is handy put on the back
At the end of the day Peter, "Rule 1" applies - its your layout, you do what you like. I guess its only the nerdy types (like me) that try to get it as "right" as it can be. That said, the track gauge is still wrong and the "steam" engines are powered by electric, so its all a bit academic!!
Really enjoying this series of videos you’re putting out. I see you have quite a variety of wagon loads. Maybe in the future you could do a video on how you made or bought various loads. Keep up the great work 👍
Hi, Yes your right had no idea about all the things we need to know just on brake vans it was very interesting but will I now be getting it all right on the railway well no as I have a train set but thank you so much for this a super video. Cheers Robert.
Some GWR vans allocated to branch lines had through vacuum and steam heating pipes to allow them to run in front of passenger coaches to avoid shunting when not working a mixed train ( Bridport six wheel Toad) - did this also apply to other companies? Fully fitted Toads (Toad A) had the brake cylinder above the floor at the veranda end in place of the seat.
Great video. I was the one who originally asked for this topic when your request for suggestions went out. Once again your video was informative and entertaining. Just one more question, would a brake van be pushed onto the back of an already formed train with the use of a loop or would the train be pushed back into the siding where the van is awaiting? Or did it depend on the size/style of yard used? Thanks again.
I know that in bigger yards, trains would be made up "against" the brake (which would be placed at the end of a siding). In smaller yards, I guess this was also the case but I have no evidence one way or the other. The key was doing things with the minimum of shunting so adding the brake last doesn't seem efficient????
Tx for this, was it always intrigued me as to how and why brake vans were used, am modelling Tyne Dock iron ore flows as part opf my layout so all helps
Fun you have said that I have a photo of a GWR toad on a demolition train on the Stainmore Trans Pennine route in the NE 😂. Over the years I have come across all sorts of anomalies, GWR rail cars and Blue Midland Pullman at Hartlepool, the southern gas turbine locomotive was at Stockton when converted to electric.
Having said what I said, I realise that the NER refered to their double-ended brakes as "Toads". Oops :-( I am a firm believer that there is a prototype for everything - the key is not to overdo that weird stuff but to add a bit in carefully. I have 1 train out of 50-odd where a tender loco is running tender-first. 1 passenger train out of 12 has a strengthener coach etc etc
A nice informative video. However, I think you need to mute your video footage of trains running. The sound of the trains is drowning out your voice audio.
Hi. I usually do turn the video sound down and max out the audio mix in favour of the voice. If I get lost on occasions, apologies. I try to leave a bit of layout sound in as silent trains are less convincing I think.
As someone completely new to model railways info like this is a great help.
Welcome to the clan Mark! Thanks for your comment.
A very interesting and practical video for all those who wish to operate in a realistic manner. Well done.
May I add a fact that is pertinent to the content of this video?
Across the network it a loco crew would often work in tandem with a guard in his brake van throughout a shift. They would work as a pair from duty to duty. These pairings were often permanent and would last from shift to shift or even longer.
This did mean that if a crew for example, left a train for onward movement to another railway or region at an exchange siding and did not have a return working to their home shed it was not uncommon for a light engine movement to include the partner brake van and guard.
HI Mark. Thanks for adding this info. The "Loco + Brake" is a useful extra train. I guess those of us with a terminus may have the need to run this type of train if there was an inbalance of traffic either in or out. Very few of us in the UK follow the US pattern of operating where such imbalances result in light engines/brakes - we either ignore them or ignore them!!
That came from from a retired engineman whilst I was exhibiting a club layout that had loco and brake van movements in the sequence through a colliery exchange sideing. @@yarslowmodelrailway1
I just love these nuggets of information, keep them coming Barry.
Thanks Chris. Hope you are keeping well.
Please 🙏 I've never been able to find this info
This is awesome keep this coming Barry
:-)
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 :-)
Thanks Barry a very good summary. One fairly common feature you missed - used mainly in areas that had unbalanced freight flows was the engine and brake van or vans ( I think this was lamp code G) Where a loaded mineral train may run to say 20 wagons a single loco could haul up to 60 or so empties back to the mine resulting in an accumulation of locos and brake vans at one end of the line. These then worked back to the traffic source as engine and brake van(s). This was also used at the start of some pick-up/trip freights where the engine and brake would work from the shed/main yard to the sidings where the wagons were waiting for collection.
Hi Jonathon. I did cover this in the "train types" video I think, but you are right in saying that I forgot them in this video - apologies. A Loco + Brake is a simple way of adding an extra train based in a very short siding in the storage area.
Excellent. Don't forget Southern's bogie Queen Mary goods brake vans.
Not only were brake vans fitted or unfitted, some were through piped as well. The train vacuum brakes didn't operate the brakes on the brake van (the guard could do that manually with the hand wheel), but there was a valve in the van where the guard could apply the train brakes by opening the brake pipe to atmosphere to lose the vacuum.
It wasn't uncommon to on train of mixed fitted and unfitted stock to have the fitted stock at the head of the train to provide additional brake force. This was commonly known as a fitted head.
I've also seen diesel brake tenders substituted for fitted brake vans. On two occasions I saw on the coal trains to Tolworth, a class 73 with on one occasion a fitted GWR toad, and the other occasion a Queen Mary acting as brake tenders. The traffic originating from Acton on the GW.
All interesting stuff - thanks for sharing!
These videos are really brilliantly done, and the modeling first class.
Many thanks - much appreciated
Great video mate!
Thanks a lot!
Excellent
Thanks
Very interesting video.....
Glad you liked it
I find your railway practice videos so interesting and visually enjoyable thanks to your beautiful modelling. Thank you for doing them, I can't wait for the next. Btw, I can hear you fine with the sound of the trains.
Thanks Adam, much appreciated on all points made.
Very interesting & informative plus a great layout in the making!
Many thanks!
hi, great video. i have two LBSC hornby brake vans which are used all the time and go on any train, also a Pill box van, as we are all playing with toy trains i don't think we should take them too seriously.what ever is handy put on the back
At the end of the day Peter, "Rule 1" applies - its your layout, you do what you like. I guess its only the nerdy types (like me) that try to get it as "right" as it can be. That said, the track gauge is still wrong and the "steam" engines are powered by electric, so its all a bit academic!!
Very interesting. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Really enjoying this series of videos you’re putting out. I see you have quite a variety of wagon loads. Maybe in the future you could do a video on how you made or bought various loads. Keep up the great work 👍
Thanks for the idea!! And thanks for your comments
Hi,
Yes your right had no idea about all the things we need to know just on brake vans it was very interesting but will I now be getting it all right on the railway well no as I have a train set but thank you so much for this a super video.
Cheers Robert.
No worries
Thanks for a great educational video, I love you vids. thanks Dallas.
Glad you like them!
Some GWR vans allocated to branch lines had through vacuum and steam heating pipes to allow them to run in front of passenger coaches to avoid shunting when not working a mixed train ( Bridport six wheel Toad) - did this also apply to other companies?
Fully fitted Toads (Toad A) had the brake cylinder above the floor at the veranda end in place of the seat.
Thanks for sharing this info William!!
Great video. I was the one who originally asked for this topic when your request for suggestions went out. Once again your video was informative and entertaining. Just one more question, would a brake van be pushed onto the back of an already formed train with the use of a loop or would the train be pushed back into the siding where the van is awaiting? Or did it depend on the size/style of yard used? Thanks again.
I know that in bigger yards, trains would be made up "against" the brake (which would be placed at the end of a siding). In smaller yards, I guess this was also the case but I have no evidence one way or the other. The key was doing things with the minimum of shunting so adding the brake last doesn't seem efficient????
That makes sense, thanks and again, great videos.
Tx for this, was it always intrigued me as to how and why brake vans were used, am modelling Tyne Dock iron ore flows as part opf my layout so all helps
Tyne Dock - Q7/8s and 9F's - you must get some video up of that interesting project!
Greetings, this is amazing🎉 Thanks for sharing
Thank you too
Informative as ever.
Thanks Ian
You won't see a toad in the NE? Bet someone has😂. Prototype for everything?
Fun you have said that I have a photo of a GWR toad on a demolition train on the Stainmore Trans Pennine route in the NE 😂. Over the years I have come across all sorts of anomalies, GWR rail cars and Blue Midland Pullman at Hartlepool, the southern gas turbine locomotive was at Stockton when converted to electric.
@@ch1970mc Never say never🤣
Having said what I said, I realise that the NER refered to their double-ended brakes as "Toads". Oops :-( I am a firm believer that there is a prototype for everything - the key is not to overdo that weird stuff but to add a bit in carefully. I have 1 train out of 50-odd where a tender loco is running tender-first. 1 passenger train out of 12 has a strengthener coach etc etc
A nice informative video. However, I think you need to mute your video footage of trains running. The sound of the trains is drowning out your voice audio.
Hi. I usually do turn the video sound down and max out the audio mix in favour of the voice. If I get lost on occasions, apologies. I try to leave a bit of layout sound in as silent trains are less convincing I think.