A 100% Chris. I think this is such an important subject and one that needs opening up in the sphere of grappling combat sports. As a former educator in a School of Medicine in the UK - teaching patient safety, 'never events', learning from medical mistakes, human factors, etc, via the use risk assessments and making implicit practice more and more explicit via daily briefings and reflections, check lists, posters on walls, induction contracts with expectations of behaviour, just a few for example) could all, in my opinion, be implemented into gyms to create a safe, enjoyable and ultimately more competitive atmosphere where fear of injury becomes almost non-existent (never completely). Of course, this would demand a far higher level of education, teaching skills and experience from the coach than simply being a black belt or how many competitions they may have participated in. I imagine a lot of push back in this respect but I can only say it's good to hear you drawing from your experience from the fire service to make the implicit more explicit in your gym. In many ways, modern medicine had to learn from other industries (airlines for example) who manage risk and safety on a day by day basis to improve patient outcomes despite push back from surgical teams. Hope that makes sense to borrow your phrase? I live a little too far away to visit but one day would like to do so 🙏
I'm recovering from an ACL recon. I'm coming back to training because I'm too stubborn to be forcibly retired by another person but I'm fairly sure this is my last year. I'm a small woman, the sole provider for my daughter and I need to be able to walk etc to work. The risk is of BJJ to my ability to parent effectively is just unacceptable long term. I was injured at an open when visiting another gym. It happened in a takedown done in super slow motion by a higher belt when I had made a decision NOT to fight his grip - I decided - this is tight and I'm tired so I'll let him have it and ha took several slow moments to set it up. He had my knee hooked and pinched between his knees and he scoop pushed me sideways over the isolated knee. I assumed I would be safe as I took the scramble / speed out of the situation by standing there waiting. I assumed he would just run the pipe or step over the leg and transition his grip to take me down with a rear body lock etc. Since then I learned that another woman received the exact same injury - ruptured ACL and tibia fracture from a bad takedown by a guy a month before in the same gym. After I was injured he knew exactly what the damage was to my knee. I didn't know until I had my scan but immediately afterwards he sat next to me and told me a guy he knows had a ruptured ACL and his leg was never the same again. He knew EXACTLY what he did. You can have these risk matrices by psychos still exist. Small, single women my age who don't have any status or importance in the BJJ community are just perfect targets.
This is definitely an important video/idea. There’s a gym I’ve trained at, PandaRoll in Lynnwood WA state that has a sandwich-board with posted rules on it, specifically stating that no jumping techniques are allowed and to do so will result in immediate permanent removal from the gym. Do you post rules at your club Chris?
These days, bjj practice has so many rules; this move is illegal, that sort of contortion is illegal, on the premise that it is “unsafe”. IBJJF & UFC has a bunch of rules to in order to make their competitions “safe” but has that really stopped injury rates? Any technique has the potential to be dangerous, but the key question that needs to be asked is “what causes situations during practice (or competition) to be dangerous?” The reality is that regardless what technique your partner uses, if your partner has zero control of himself & his own intensity (especially if he’s going super fast; i.e: using a lot of power) it is always dangerous. The reality is that the lack of control any particular student (or instructor) has of himself & his own intensity that is the real cause of danger during training & competition. However, that is unfortunately the very thing that you have limited ability to train & instill if you are a technique-based-learning-system like bjj. That is exactly the reason why bjj white belts (especially if they’re young, athletic, & full of ego) are the most dangerous on the mats. I guess the most any instructor can do is not pressure or guilt trip any student to roll if they don’t feel comfortable, and as a student, if you have an instructor that keeps insisting you roll even when u don’t feel comfortable, you should remember u have the right to stop taking his class (or even walk out that very moment if u feel rolling that moment would cause serious injury or death).
This is simply my opinion. I don't believe that it is the job of an instructor to look after the well being of a student. Students just like competitors are responsible for their own safety.None of us walk into any combat sport with our eyes closed to the potential risks involved. I feel that you maybe attempting to control situations that are quite honestly out of your control. I would be very interested to hear what your insurance company would have to say in this matter. If you feel that a student has been injured due to you not controlling what they and a training partner are doing will this result in a possible payout for negligence on your part ? I'm not being a knob these are simply my thoughts.
He's the instructor. He is responsible for the safety of his students. Most students don't know how to be safe or even what actions are safe. The instructor must guide everyone in his school.
It's actually part of health and safety law for a competent person to create risk assessments. As a fire fighter and later a commander, there wasn't a single drill or incident I ever attended that didn't have one made up ready or have one created during the incident. It was then up to a competent person to ensure the safety of the people in the environment and make sure whatever the risk assessment findings were followed. And at a building on fire that's pretty bonkers. Essentially I've done the same here. I have risk assessments created for most techniques/scenarios and I try and enact those findings using ERIC PD. Eliminate, reduce, isolate, control, PPE, discipline. If that means my students go longer without injury/serious injury then brilliant. I am the most competent person so it's my moral responsibility at the very least. I can't control for everything, accidents do happen, but I have done my best and shown to work within my abilities as a coach instead of pleading ignorance.
A 100% Chris. I think this is such an important subject and one that needs opening up in the sphere of grappling combat sports. As a former educator in a School of Medicine in the UK - teaching patient safety, 'never events', learning from medical mistakes, human factors, etc, via the use risk assessments and making implicit practice more and more explicit via daily briefings and reflections, check lists, posters on walls, induction contracts with expectations of behaviour, just a few for example) could all, in my opinion, be implemented into gyms to create a safe, enjoyable and ultimately more competitive atmosphere where fear of injury becomes almost non-existent (never completely). Of course, this would demand a far higher level of education, teaching skills and experience from the coach than simply being a black belt or how many competitions they may have participated in. I imagine a lot of push back in this respect but I can only say it's good to hear you drawing from your experience from the fire service to make the implicit more explicit in your gym. In many ways, modern medicine had to learn from other industries (airlines for example) who manage risk and safety on a day by day basis to improve patient outcomes despite push back from surgical teams. Hope that makes sense to borrow your phrase? I live a little too far away to visit but one day would like to do so 🙏
I like the concept of the five second rule...
I'm recovering from an ACL recon. I'm coming back to training because I'm too stubborn to be forcibly retired by another person but I'm fairly sure this is my last year. I'm a small woman, the sole provider for my daughter and I need to be able to walk etc to work. The risk is of BJJ to my ability to parent effectively is just unacceptable long term.
I was injured at an open when visiting another gym. It happened in a takedown done in super slow motion by a higher belt when I had made a decision NOT to fight his grip - I decided - this is tight and I'm tired so I'll let him have it and ha took several slow moments to set it up. He had my knee hooked and pinched between his knees and he scoop pushed me sideways over the isolated knee.
I assumed I would be safe as I took the scramble / speed out of the situation by standing there waiting. I assumed he would just run the pipe or step over the leg and transition his grip to take me down with a rear body lock etc. Since then I learned that another woman received the exact same injury - ruptured ACL and tibia fracture from a bad takedown by a guy a month before in the same gym.
After I was injured he knew exactly what the damage was to my knee. I didn't know until I had my scan but immediately afterwards he sat next to me and told me a guy he knows had a ruptured ACL and his leg was never the same again. He knew EXACTLY what he did. You can have these risk matrices by psychos still exist. Small, single women my age who don't have any status or importance in the BJJ community are just perfect targets.
This is definitely an important video/idea. There’s a gym I’ve trained at, PandaRoll in Lynnwood WA state that has a sandwich-board with posted rules on it, specifically stating that no jumping techniques are allowed and to do so will result in immediate permanent removal from the gym. Do you post rules at your club Chris?
Chris please post your rules
Great minds think alike. Been trying to get more people to understand and use a risk matrix for decision making. Heuristic modeling for the win.
saw a bloody flying scissor sweep in sparring this week, my coach and I just facepalmed and cringed so hard
trouble is i rarely hear safety discussed. at most we get a general reminder, but rarely any indepth analysis and instruction so people understand.
These days, bjj practice has so many rules; this move is illegal, that sort of contortion is illegal, on the premise that it is “unsafe”.
IBJJF & UFC has a bunch of rules to in order to make their competitions “safe” but has that really stopped injury rates?
Any technique has the potential to be dangerous, but the key question that needs to be asked is “what causes situations during practice (or competition) to be dangerous?”
The reality is that regardless what technique your partner uses, if your partner has zero control of himself & his own intensity (especially if he’s going super fast; i.e: using a lot of power) it is always dangerous.
The reality is that the lack of control any particular student (or instructor) has of himself & his own intensity that is the real cause of danger during training & competition. However, that is unfortunately the very thing that you have limited ability to train & instill if you are a technique-based-learning-system like bjj. That is exactly the reason why bjj white belts (especially if they’re young, athletic, & full of ego) are the most dangerous on the mats.
I guess the most any instructor can do is not pressure or guilt trip any student to roll if they don’t feel comfortable, and as a student, if you have an instructor that keeps insisting you roll even when u don’t feel comfortable, you should remember u have the right to stop taking his class (or even walk out that very moment if u feel rolling that moment would cause serious injury or death).
This is simply my opinion. I don't believe that it is the job of an instructor to look after the well being of a student. Students just like competitors are responsible for their own safety.None of us walk into any combat sport with our eyes closed to the potential risks involved. I feel that you maybe attempting to control situations that are quite honestly out of your control. I would be very interested to hear what your insurance company would have to say in this matter. If you feel that a student has been injured due to you not controlling what they and a training partner are doing will this result in a possible payout for negligence on your part ? I'm not being a knob these are simply my thoughts.
He's the instructor. He is responsible for the safety of his students. Most students don't know how to be safe or even what actions are safe. The instructor must guide everyone in his school.
It's actually part of health and safety law for a competent person to create risk assessments. As a fire fighter and later a commander, there wasn't a single drill or incident I ever attended that didn't have one made up ready or have one created during the incident. It was then up to a competent person to ensure the safety of the people in the environment and make sure whatever the risk assessment findings were followed. And at a building on fire that's pretty bonkers.
Essentially I've done the same here. I have risk assessments created for most techniques/scenarios and I try and enact those findings using ERIC PD. Eliminate, reduce, isolate, control, PPE, discipline.
If that means my students go longer without injury/serious injury then brilliant. I am the most competent person so it's my moral responsibility at the very least. I can't control for everything, accidents do happen, but I have done my best and shown to work within my abilities as a coach instead of pleading ignorance.
How long have you trained for?