Honestly, as a content creator, James is singularly one of the most entertaining youtubers out there. Totally. Absolutely love his videos. Even if i had no interest in guns I'd still watch this channel religiously.
Just got mine in last week and I absolutely love it. I had no problems with reloading, whereas my husband struggled a bit. My guess is my fingers are smaller, so they didn't get in the way as much. Overall, we had no issues whatsoever, and we had a fun-ass day out at the range.
The fact the S&W is launching a bull pump is great! Even if it doesn’t take off, the fact that they are willing to try something NEW (to them at least) is awesome. Hope for more new products soon!
@@DinoArmy13 yeah, what's wrong with that? If people didn't clone a product, you wouldn't have most of the guns we have today. You think every single weapon's action was designed from scratch? 🤣
I’ve shot the KSG a lot the S&W is a big must have for me but the big thing not talked about on this video is why bull pumps are so great. The KSG became a favorite of mine for clearing homes and structures and that’s because of how small it is for what you get. I’m super excited about the ability of the S&W’s external tube switch because I’ve always felt that was the biggest achilles’ heel to the KSG.
I've been leaning towards the Standard Manufacturer DP-12, because I honestly don't know if I can get the hang of switching barrels quickly. That said, you have to fire the DP-12 twice before pumping, which may also be difficult to get used to.
I found an extended tube selector switch for the KSG that makes it so you can easily switch between tubes simply with your wrist. Your hand never leave position to switch.
@@JS-qi1ou my purchasing power is limited, i cant afford to buy multiple guns (range toy, hunting shotgun, self defense etc) its much more economical (and important for me) to have a single firearm that is reliable. its why i haven't been convinced to move away from the mossberg 500 for the money.
@@TheRyandahlgren this comment wasn't aimed to you, its for the guys like myself with more than 20 firearms. There are guys that will only buy for brand recognition regardless of it's durability or functionality. For instance I have a friend that only buys Henry Rifles and Glock handguns. I have such a mash up I couldn't imagine having everything being so similar, I just like all the different designs.
Except that this will be better quality and s&w will actually manufacture enough so anyone who wants one can find one. I like kel tec but they are notorious for coming up with an innovative idea and then you never see one for sale at your local shop.
KelTec is very good at innovation. They are not real good at QC and they completely suck at getting enough of their guns to the market place so people who want them can actually find one to buy. This new S&W will be a product improved KSG. Just like the Governor is a product improved Judge and the Ruger LCP is a product improved P3AT.
It's good to see s&w go out of there comfort zone . There bullpup will be way better than Kel-Tec. I had that crappy shotgun for a year all it did was jam on me all the time. Kel-Tec wouldn't fix it unless I showed proof of purchase. I never had a manufacturer ask for that.
Just bought one. Sure is a unique firearm from M&P and definitely feels the best out of all the bullpumps or semi autos. Very light and rigid. Also surprisingly comfortable to handle and aim. I love it
Now I want to see about 10 different shooters all try this gun, the ksg, and the DP12. 3 guns. 10 people. looking at comfort, reload speed, attachment capabilities, reliability and price point.
Is the dp12 also a bullpup? Not familiar with it. I would add an ak patterned 12g to that list. If not for price being a consideration I'd say forget it and go 1301.
The DP 12 is a heavy, awkward kludge. The progressive trigger is also…really odd. Personally I would consider this and the KSG to be superior to it for any practical purpose.
Great review, as always James! "Bullpump-curious," I see this term entering the 2A vernacular. Practice makes perfect: To prevent operator induced equipment malfunction, my wife learned not to short-stoke but fully-stroke the Bull Pump & ensure I'm fully loaded.
@@MrObeast44 as a die hard KSG fanbird, I must say this gun does look really cool, it's like looking at ar-15s. KSG is an m16a1 or AR10, this is a dan defense m-lock bubba-15
Hey, but with that MSRP you can pretend it is a semi-auto...seriously, over $1100 bucks for a pump gun, even if it is a bullpup? Ridiculous. That's as much as I paid for my Beretta 1301 Competition gun, which runs flawlessly. And this gun is going to have teething problems, like the problems with loading and those "loading assist" buttons where you have to be careful how much pressure to apply lest you get the entire contents of the mag tube dumping out.
@@Sevisstillalive Some of the AR type shotguns are okay, but they seem really heavy and the ones I've seen lack the ability to adjust the length of the stock, which is one of the best things about AR ergonomics. If you know how to run an AR the skillset transfers over quite easily, though, so that's one advantage. The problem is they can be picky about cycling certain lighter loads, just like a lot of other semis. They can also be very picky about magazines, sometimes double feeding, or failing to feed, or failing to lock open on an empty mag. There used to be a company that did some custom mods to the MKA 1919 shotgun that's probably the oldest AR style. These ran very reliably, but I haven't been able to find the company. EAA is currently selling this shotgun under their name and you can get it at Sportman's Warehouse. But these are getting the same complaints as before, only heavy loads will cycle properly (00 buck and slugs). Bottom line I still like my Beretta 1301 best.
@@necavenue I'm not sure calling a design improvement a ripoff makes sense..no pins to pound out..interior dissassembly..3 parts..solid machining ..what's the issue?
@@baguettelord4614 lmao what? Dunno what you're smoking but I'd hardly call anything in the M&P "Budget" considering most of what they offer is still at a median price and quite quality.
Stoked to see more bull pup shotguns coming out. That being said, i see a lot of people talking about the KSG being unreliable. Mine has ran great, and does everything I ask of it.
Both of my KSG's have been great. Funny how many keyboard warriors rag on the KSG. When you ask them "have you owned one?" or even "have you shot one?", the answer us usually something like, "well no, but a friend of mine said he heard this was true".
I shot the Kel Tec KSG and the DP12 at media day at shot show....I preferred the DP12 because of the double tap ability with 2 barrels. I felt if im going to carry a heavy ass shotgun....might as well be able to send 2 shots of 00 buck almost at the same time before your first pump.
Good on Smith for departing from the traditional. However, this seems to be a heavy, high-bore axis, expensive version of the KSG and copying the ultralight, more practical KS7 for an identical price would have made more sense IMO. I already have a KSG but honestly I want to get a KS7... 5.9 ibs! 2 tubes is fun but unnecessarily adds an extra pound
I have the KSG (which I love) but have this question. What does the KS7 do that other pumps don't? Say, the Mossberg 590, which you can get for less than $400 at times. I ask because I actually love supporting KT due to their innovation (even if they sometimes fail) but don't quite understand the KS7. It is just because it's a bullpu(m)p? Because it's about ~1 lb lighter?
@@katmandoo122 Basically it is all about the bullpup and the fact that it’s a lighter version of the KSG that gives you the same functionality as your run of the mill pump action while also offering a more compact design than other shotguns with the same shell/ ammo capacity. If you already have a reg KSG it may not make sense to get a KS7 (unless you just want one, that is). But for anyone like myself that likes the design, doesn’t have a KSG and would love to have a bullpup, it’s a very attractive SG
"Make sure you get a full, lengthy stroke...." Thanks for that little gem, James. And now I will do my part to start calling my KS7 and all others, "bull-pumps."
That looks very interesting. As usual, Keltec really drives innovation and firearms trends but often can’t deliver on final quality, sadly. I like Keltec for how they run their business, if not the Sig-repeated customer-driven-and-funded beta R&D. But we all benefit from other companies standing on their shoulders
Keltec, great innovators, but agree on less than ideal manufacturing quality. I recently purchased their long barrel CP33 22LR target pistol for the range and competition. I am very disappointed in the overall quality including the thin, uncomfortable (non-interchangeable) grip. They innovate with the use of several 3D printed parts. These are plastic and the printing quality is excellent. The use of Direct Metal Laser Sinterin 3DP (and other types) would change the firearms industry and significantly reduce costs. There is no need to manufacture large numbers of parts for inventory. Simply print the parts in real-time, on demand additive manufacturing. Have exactly 175 rounds on the CP33 and can already see signs of trigger metal fatigue. Love the concept, but will probably sell it.
@@lennysinnet8567 who doesn't want a fucking massive, complex gun with a bunch of extra failure points for 1 more shell than fixed dual tubes that could be easily swapped between and can't jam between tubes
TFB: "S&W is listening to its customers." Customers: "We hate the action lock in your revolvers." S&W: "......TFB, have you shown our customers the shotgun we copied from Keltec?"
I heard their newer actions in their revolvers are shit, I wouldn't know from experience I have older Smiths who's action is like a fine Swiss watch. But are they really that terrible?
@@onionhead5780 that's why you should have multiple firearms available to you. That may not be a luxury for everyone I understand this. Then if you dont, take out your "targets" very carefully...
“Awkwardly comfortable...”. Not quite the story of my life, but it surely might have been, if not for a few “refinements to my aiming”, so-to-speak. :)
I like to see companies change it up. I have a KSG and while I haven't run a ton of shells through it, I have it set up how I like. My friend fell in love with it, so I'll show him this to get for his 12 Guage needs
@@lilswank2012 I still very much enjoy the KSG. I'm looking at the A300 Ultima Patrol from Beretta as well. My buddy ended up going with another shotgun. I think it's a Turkish made shotgun
@@AnnoyoTribe sounds good, I’m an M&P fan as I have a few handguns by them and I love them. Just wasn’t sure which gun to go with as I am already biased lmao. Thank you
I do love my KSGs, I bought one early at the unicorn stage then one later when they were everywhere at almost half the original cost. I'm interested to see how well this compares and have they fixed what some have thought of as negatives from Kel Tec.
Seriously Smith & Wesson really should just make a pulse rifle already. "10 millimeter explosive tip caseless. Standard light armor piercing round, why?"
*randomly skips through video to see gun "That looks cool". "And speaking of MSRP that's gonna be eleven-hundred and sixty five dollars." "Fuuuuuuuck youuuuuuu." *goes back to bed
Kel-Tec has their gen 2 KSGs pretty dialed in and the base model can still be had for $800ish. The addition of the choke is nice but not really necessary considering with a good slug you can get relatively accurate shots with the KSG up to two hundred yards. Also, the within the range of standard buck and bird you would use an 18inch barreled shotgun at, the pattern is already so close you are practically getting slug performance any how.
The fact that it's so difficult to reload makes me have no desire to buy this shotgun when a regular shotgun does the same effect and much easier to load.
@@warrenharrison9490 9 shots and when that runs dry I can breach load off my side saddle very quickly. Standard pump shotguns are the king of home defense. Time tested designs that just run. When this KSG clone runs dry you are in trouble. My SXP Defender holds 6 shots but the rotating bolt shoots the pump back so in the middle of taking a shot I can prepare the next shell to be breached and do that until I’m out of ammo. Not empty mag out of ammo I mean there are literally no shells left in sight. It’s the perfect self defense shotgun. Ease of use. Practical design. Actual innovation not just a copy off some other company. This is a cool looking shotgun but belongs in the same class as a shockwave. It’s not practical and the hardware is new so despite this guys gun running fine who knows what will happen down the line. To answer your question my shotgun holds as many rounds as I can carry… and then some.
@@jayquick6520 not practical? Once again, if you need more ammo than this holds (in a self defense situation) you’ve got much bigger problems. Besides everyone knows it’s quicker to switch to your sidearm than reload.
I'd love to see a full comparison between this M&P12, the Kel-Tec KSG, and the Standard Manufacturer DP-12. I understand the DP-12 is a different setup, in that there's no barrel switching. You said the M&P12 is a much more premium design than the Kel-Tec KSG. However, I'd argue the SM DP-12 is the most well made of these 3 (the increased price does reflect this). I guess what interests me most is reliability, and ease of reloading. Reloading isn't the biggest deal, though. I suspect most people will buy these for home defense, as they hold so many 2.75" shells when compared to a standard shotgun. It certainly would be a massive capacity improvement over my 1980 Remington 1100.
Using modern materials make a 32 mag Slightly smaller than a I frame revolver , Slight bigger that a NAA but with a good DA. Built in laser /light Since they own criminson Trace ...decent trigger
Sadly, seems in 21 most revolver manufacturers (S&W, Colt and Kimber) have gone the other way and reduced their revolver offerings. Pity, since in reality 90% of civilian handgun owners would be better served with a revolver.
Steep learning curve to run that gun. Looks like fun, with my low recoil slugs but it would be a long time before I would rely on it for self defense. Would be great if it automatically switched over to the full magazine when one runs dry.
Press the bottom “soft” and it’s easier load. Press it harder and it craps out all the shells??? Guessing this is gonna be an big issue under stress. We shall see
Have to agree with you, Benelli M4 or 1301 LTT FTW! KSG is fun only after you got the face pad, extended tube switch, muzzle brake, and... after a warranty repair so it actually works.
I got myself a keltec ks7. Absolutely love it, supper light weight and reliable. Personally not a big fan of the dual mag tubes that all the other bullpumps have like the m&p 12. I just don't think the added ammo capacity justifies the complexity and weight. Reloading a bullpump after a while really isn't to bad if you don't try to treat it like an 870.
I'd love to see a side by side comparison of this gun with the KSG. Specifically I'm thinking of how well each ejects spent shells. I have a KSG and sometimes (more often then I would like) I have to stop to get my last spent round out of the chamber. It seems like the contours that help keep the chamber closed during fire can get in the way and dent the rim of a ejecting shell...sometimes not letting it go. Anyway...I would love to see if S&W does this a lot better.
Joseph, that's interesting, you might want to contact Kel-Tec about that. I have been carrying a KSG on duty since they were released, I qualify with it quarterly with buck and slugs, have shot a LOT of rounds through it and have never had any issue with ejection. It does have a bit more recoil than I'd like, but I'll put up with that for the size, mag capacity and functionality. What I love about the side by side selectable feed tubes is that I load one with buck and one with slugs, so I have my choice of what I load when I remove it from the car.
@@johnfriend862 I actually did contact kel-tec about it and sent the gun back in Nov 2020 for repair. They replaced several internal parts and the issue did improve noticeably but it is not gone. If it matters, I typically train with 2 3/4" bird shot shells (I have a lot of those). As the action is a manual pump and shell rim dimensions are standardized I would not expect that to make a difference.
I really like that gun it’s compact and it looks like it may make a home defense gun . But with a msrp of 1100 it puts out of my price range. But overall it’s a nice looking gun
I'll keep my panzer arms bullpup mag fed 12g. After a weekend shooting to break in the recoil spring its been good to go with 0 hiccups since. Not a bad $600 buy during covid.
Looks almost perfect the lower looks like a bit of a afterthought but the upper looks awesome maybe aftermarket will sort it out The more i look at it it's growing on me
@@archcunningham5579 yes same! I always told myself if I ever buy an AR-15 it's gonna be by a good company. Rn I currently have an M&P sport 2 on layaway can't wait to get it.
@@rubixfilms687 If you get a chance, try to get your hands on some military ''Green Tip '' ammo for your new AR. Both myself and a friend who also owns a Smith and Wesson AR have gotten phenomenal accuracy with it. Commercial ammo doesn't come close to it. Good Luck !
I think I will stick to my KSG. Holds more ammo, easier loading, lighter weight, no uncomfortable rubbing on my thumb, I can also use 1 3/4" mini shells, just as upgradable with plenty of attachments already on the market, cheaper price with great quality, and swapping to the other tube is way easier. No offense Smith and Wesson. I love your revolvers.
I bought my KSG for $800 from a local dealer in town 7 years ago. Changed out the factory tube selector for sturdier and longer aftermarket selector. Changed out the cheap plastic followers for aftermarket as well. Threw on a breach tip and a red dot and it’s my go to home defense weapon. And it does hold more minis. 24 +1. I like how smooth slugs pull too. I even skeet with this damn thing. Lol. Love it.
@@hashtagmethree2381 that's weird I just got mine 2 years ago brand new from my dealer for about $430 before covid I was seeing them for about $600 but I do love mine tried skeet shooting with it never again 🤦🏾♂️ I didn't hit a damn thing
@@Quaway252 why’s that weird? I have a gen 1 KSG. I bought it shortly after it launched. It was extremely hard to find. I paid $800, whereas the MSRP and everywhere else was selling it for $1,100, if they even had one. I fail to see what you think is weird about this…
@@hashtagmethree2381 when I said weird I meant as in damn the value was up then dropped badly and went back up because of the gun scare last year. That's weird $800 to $430 both brand new then back to $1000-1100 brand new during covid.
@@jimmyliddell2072 Thanks. Good suggestion. Tavor didn't really stay with their normal formula for their shotgun. PA's is almost like a more Tavor, Tavor. Those 5 round mags are huge though.
You should definitely check out the IWI TS-12. If you want a semi-automatic with high-capacity and not a pump action. Had mine for a month and we went through 150 shells without a single misfire
I’m actually really excited for this gun. I think it would be even more appealing if the tubes automatically alternated between pumps, rather than utilizing a selector switch.
Nice! I like the reliability of my smith and wesson firearms! I have a kel tec ksg and I love it never had a problem with it ever! I cant wait to shoot one of these to compare! I haven't been excited for a new firearm in a while!
@@nocount7517 Unless the mod added a second trigger, say 2 slim triggers (equal to the side of the current trigger) that when pulled fired both barrels
Honestly I would love to see that after you empty your one tube it will automatically switch on over to the other tube instead of pressing the trigger and it just clicks and then you have to change. In a high stress situation, that's going to suck. That purpose alone will deter me from using something like this for defensive weapon.
I had to scroll way too far to see this. Even my cheap mossberg 500 has a mechanism to lock the fore-end back/open when the tube is empty. The lack of that feature on the S&W is 100% going to get someone killed or make a hunter miss their shot. Very poor design choice
As compared to what? You have 7 rounds in this. Most shotties don't hold that many rounds so when this clicks, I guarantee that pushing the button is faster than a reload on, say, a Remmy 870. So unless you're talking about a semi shotgun, at what point will having access to another 7 rounds by pushing a button get you killed?
@@Xtorin_Housecat_Ohern Actually, I doubt that is true. I would guess average capacity of a civilian, off-the-rack shotgun is a 6+1 at best. But regardless, ok, let's say you buy a Binelli M4 and increase the capacity to 7+1. Your $2,000 shottie now has the same capacity as the M&P12 or KSG in ONE tube. You fire 7. Would you rather reload the semi-auto one at a time or push a button to access 6/7 more? There are no circumstances in which the MP12 or KSG gets you killed versus a "normal" shotty due to a button or lever push. Reliability? Accuracy? Sure, maybe, but not a button push. It's just faster, always.
It amazes me how the DP12 never gets love. I sold my ksg, too light plus the empty brass kept hitting the bone on my wrist. My DP12 was clearly better, built like a tank, lighter recoil and balanced. The ksg felt like it would crack if dropped, too much plastic.
Thanks for the video James. I own a KelTec KSG and have used a variety of 2-3/4 as well as the Aguila shorties, small shot and slugs. All do well and give multiple victim...oops , I mean "target"- results. Ideal home close quarters firearm. I do like the tube switch being forward of the trigger on the Smith & Wesson. So far, I would like to see a long term comparison to see which model holds up with rigorous usage. Hope you and all friends in Louisiana have a swift storm and Covid recovery. JwgK in Houston
This video was playing in the background of a Snapchat clip I saw from Kabul. The entire country of Afghanistan is collapsing but some TFBTV fan in Kabul isn't going to miss your latest video. If I were James I would be pretty impressed.
The Governor/Judge 410 pistol shotguns are super underrated when you use the specialized 410 loads for handguns. Ironically, they go from a meme to one of the best handguns for HOME defense.
@@derek4117 Federal 000 buck is good. But Lehigh makes a specialized bullet that only fits the Judge's extended cylinder. The wound channel is 2..3 inches wide!
@@mikeb2496 I think the discs are good, but those BBs just take up space. They don't do anything in terms of penetration. Probably piss someone off though. The discs penetrate less than 000 buck too, about 4 inches difference.
@@elidiaz9980 I shoot everything out of it and no problems here, had it for years. A lot of people also can’t run the ksg, you have to rack it like you mean it lol
@@John_Redcorn_ KSG is actually used by some special forces units. I think the S&W would be a lot nicer given the improved ergonomics but the KSG is not a bad gun
I'll stick with 6+1 in my semi, with the ability to reload on the fly without looking. 3 shells topped off in 5 seconds, in the dark, while walking. Weighing 7 pounds. Weighing less but also with less recoil. I don't mind the extra length. The bull pump may be shorter, but it's thicker. Those are things she said. I think I'd get sick of carrying that thing fast, and as many times you said it would get smoother or easier over time, that action looks awkward and clunky, therefore unreliable in the cauldron of battle.
Bullpups aren't necessarily thicker, it's just that this one has the weird 2 tube design. It's not a problem with bullpups it's a problem with this "innovative" design.
While this does seem like a gimmick and is and likely always will be a niche market for this style of build but in its defense, if the problem can be solved with 14 shots in the tubes, then it just wasn't meant to be solved.
I'll have to keep an eye on it. Most of my interest in bullpups comes from the form factor. A longarm that fits in my car is better than one that doesn't after all.
Don't know why you'd want more than one, or not buy a better shotgun. (No offense to Mossberg or any Maverick owner but the 500 and 590 are worth the price over the Maverick).
Honestly, as a content creator, James is singularly one of the most entertaining youtubers out there. Totally. Absolutely love his videos. Even if i had no interest in guns I'd still watch this channel religiously.
Aw
Did you match with him on grinder too?
It's the shorts..
And he's one of the most ardent supporters of the LGBTQ community
💯
4:49 "a good foot of rail" was my nickname in college.
🤣
Because you had trains ran on you?
Gotta rail those foot long lines
no gag reflex, eh?
LOL. Oh no, you forgot you put that in the TFB comments section. Brace for the homoerotic replies.
Just got mine in last week and I absolutely love it. I had no problems with reloading, whereas my husband struggled a bit. My guess is my fingers are smaller, so they didn't get in the way as much. Overall, we had no issues whatsoever, and we had a fun-ass day out at the range.
It's comforting knowing that you guys in the LGBTQ community are comfortable with guns!
@@Mr196710lmaooo
“Bull pump curious”. LMAO. Gems like that makes TFB a great channel
Absofuckinglutely
This needs to be a shirt
🤣
"Wanna try molly" really caught me off guard. Lol
I identify as bullpump-curious
The fact the S&W is launching a bull pump is great! Even if it doesn’t take off, the fact that they are willing to try something NEW (to them at least) is awesome. Hope for more new products soon!
When glock finally makes an AR, hell freezes over
They dropped the T/C brand so they have opened up factory space to make more pistols and new stuff.
This isnt new its a ksg clone plain and simple
@@DinoArmy13
Learn to read
@@DinoArmy13 yeah, what's wrong with that? If people didn't clone a product, you wouldn't have most of the guns we have today. You think every single weapon's action was designed from scratch? 🤣
I’ve shot the KSG a lot the S&W is a big must have for me but the big thing not talked about on this video is why bull pumps are so great. The KSG became a favorite of mine for clearing homes and structures and that’s because of how small it is for what you get. I’m super excited about the ability of the S&W’s external tube switch because I’ve always felt that was the biggest achilles’ heel to the KSG.
I've been leaning towards the Standard Manufacturer DP-12, because I honestly don't know if I can get the hang of switching barrels quickly. That said, you have to fire the DP-12 twice before pumping, which may also be difficult to get used to.
I found an extended tube selector switch for the KSG that makes it so you can easily switch between tubes simply with your wrist. Your hand never leave position to switch.
@@tonkashouse can you tell me who makes it or where you bought it?
@@seanfinley3592 Bull Pup Armory Extended Tube Switch. Kel Tea should just install it to start with. It takes about 2 seconds to learn how to use.
You clear a lot of homes and structures while larping?
Hey, the Keltec RDB Survival is pretty cool, Smith and Wesson should "innovate" one of those too...
If smith and Wesson can nail the reliability aspect that keltec is always missing they’d eat their lunch
@@TheRyandahlgren honestly I'll take the reliability issues over the same old bullshit that bigger manufacturers keep churning out.
@@JS-qi1ou my purchasing power is limited, i cant afford to buy multiple guns (range toy, hunting shotgun, self defense etc) its much more economical (and important for me) to have a single firearm that is reliable. its why i haven't been convinced to move away from the mossberg 500 for the money.
@@TheRyandahlgren this comment wasn't aimed to you, its for the guys like myself with more than 20 firearms. There are guys that will only buy for brand recognition regardless of it's durability or functionality. For instance I have a friend that only buys Henry Rifles and Glock handguns. I have such a mash up I couldn't imagine having everything being so similar, I just like all the different designs.
Smith and Wesson is now copying Keltec.... Wow what a time we are living in.
Well they did make the governor
Except that this will be better quality and s&w will actually manufacture enough so anyone who wants one can find one. I like kel tec but they are notorious for coming up with an innovative idea and then you never see one for sale at your local shop.
KelTec is very good at innovation. They are not real good at QC and they completely suck at getting enough of their guns to the market place so people who want them can actually find one to buy. This new S&W will be a product improved KSG. Just like the Governor is a product improved Judge and the Ruger LCP is a product improved P3AT.
@@justinwells6795 Smith and Wesson is also a much larger company with around 2,200 employees to Kel Tec's 12-20
It's good to see s&w go out of there comfort zone . There bullpup will be way better than Kel-Tec. I had that crappy shotgun for a year all it did was jam on me all the time. Kel-Tec wouldn't fix it unless I showed proof of purchase. I never had a manufacturer ask for that.
Just bought one. Sure is a unique firearm from M&P and definitely feels the best out of all the bullpumps or semi autos. Very light and rigid. Also surprisingly comfortable to handle and aim. I love it
Smith & Wesson: Hey can I copy your homework?
KelTec: Yeah, just change it a little so its not obvious.
Except for Keltec makes absolute dog shit guns that aren’t made to last.
Absolutely correct, it's been my observation that Keltec builds great weapons . One of the best out of the box thinking companies out there
Standard Manufacturing: I said copy it not steal it
Why would they if they can make it better for cheaper
@@oleredwhiteandblue3613 Yessir, agreed👏
Coming this summer, bersa makes a long range precision rifle...
2021 the simulation is getting weird.
Pre
Bersa is making a precision rifle? Where can I see this?
Lol. U sound like Elon
And this winter, Kel-Tec will drop its fully-auto battle rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor.
@@guslulou8428 probably southern
I feel I should be fighting Xenomorphs with this.
Right????
Here ! Eat this !!!
Looks like good old George Kelgrin licensed his ksg to S&W. Bravo George about time there was an adequate supply.
Now I want to see about 10 different shooters all try this gun, the ksg, and the DP12.
3 guns. 10 people. looking at comfort, reload speed, attachment capabilities, reliability and price point.
This!
Is the dp12 also a bullpup? Not familiar with it. I would add an ak patterned 12g to that list.
If not for price being a consideration I'd say forget it and go 1301.
@@matthewbeaver5026 Yes, DP-12 is a bullpup as well. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the video.
The DP 12 is a heavy, awkward kludge. The progressive trigger is also…really odd. Personally I would consider this and the KSG to be superior to it for any practical purpose.
Me and my DP-12 were leading all till you threw that price part in there.
I've always thought on guns like the KSG, the mag tube switch was meant to be your emergency reload.
Great review, as always James!
"Bullpump-curious," I see this term entering the 2A vernacular.
Practice makes perfect: To prevent operator induced equipment malfunction, my wife learned not to short-stoke but fully-stroke the Bull Pump & ensure I'm fully loaded.
I wish they had made it a semi-auto instead of a direct copy of the KSG.
I would go as far as saying a subpar copy of the KSG at that.
@@MrObeast44 as a die hard KSG fanbird, I must say this gun does look really cool, it's like looking at ar-15s. KSG is an m16a1 or AR10, this is a dan defense m-lock bubba-15
Hey, but with that MSRP you can pretend it is a semi-auto...seriously, over $1100 bucks for a pump gun, even if it is a bullpup? Ridiculous. That's as much as I paid for my Beretta 1301 Competition gun, which runs flawlessly. And this gun is going to have teething problems, like the problems with loading and those "loading assist" buttons where you have to be careful how much pressure to apply lest you get the entire contents of the mag tube dumping out.
@@jefftuckercfii Do you like AR style shotguns ? Or do you like the Old school hand grip/ holding it.
@@Sevisstillalive Some of the AR type shotguns are okay, but they seem really heavy and the ones I've seen lack the ability to adjust the length of the stock, which is one of the best things about AR ergonomics. If you know how to run an AR the skillset transfers over quite easily, though, so that's one advantage. The problem is they can be picky about cycling certain lighter loads, just like a lot of other semis. They can also be very picky about magazines, sometimes double feeding, or failing to feed, or failing to lock open on an empty mag. There used to be a company that did some custom mods to the MKA 1919 shotgun that's probably the oldest AR style. These ran very reliably, but I haven't been able to find the company. EAA is currently selling this shotgun under their name and you can get it at Sportman's Warehouse. But these are getting the same complaints as before, only heavy loads will cycle properly (00 buck and slugs). Bottom line I still like my Beretta 1301 best.
Customers: Hey S&W, how about a really cool PCC in 9mm or 10mm?
S&W: We thought you'd never ask! Here's a shotgun that no one asked for!
So true
I'm sure someone asked...this short a setup is a great hallway..self defense weapon for home or breeching
configurations..
It looks like a KSG rippoff
…I’ve never wanted to buy a shotgun more than until I saw this thing. Gimme.
@@necavenue I'm not sure calling a design improvement a ripoff makes sense..no pins to pound out..interior dissassembly..3 parts..solid machining ..what's the issue?
If they just flip it upside down and make a few changes, they will have created the real life Halo shotgun.
Kinda surprised nobody's made that gun yet. It'd be great for quick top offs
Real life Halo ? LOL if only bro
It's called the Neostead Combat shotgun from South Africa.
Yeah.
Take the hand rail off the KS7 and that looks pretty close
"More like 50 years in the future..."
>Takes out a shotgun from 2011.
Ha! You got eeeem!
Right, KSG, DP-12, and others.
Considering smith and Wesson is typically 50 years behind. That statement is technically true
Thank you James, for the full stroke review of the Bull-Pump M&P 12.
Just when I was hoping for some more shotgun content, TFB TV delivers.
Never thought s&w would make a keltec clone
@@justinofboulder performance keltecs would be nice, but it would not save some of their junky designs. Its just a consequence of innovating.
@@justinofboulder don't get your hopes up. It's an m&p line weapon. Meaning it's budget and likely pretty bad.
@@baguettelord4614 lmao what? Dunno what you're smoking but I'd hardly call anything in the M&P "Budget" considering most of what they offer is still at a median price and quite quality.
If Smith and Wesson me to Caltech sub 2000 it would be fucking amazing I’m not a fan of Caltech using 95% polymer on all of their guns
@@baguettelord4614 except that M&Ps are generally pretty good and reliable
“50years from now?”
The KSG has been out for a long ass time
Stoked to see more bull pup shotguns coming out. That being said, i see a lot of people talking about the KSG being unreliable. Mine has ran great, and does everything I ask of it.
Same with mine never had any issues
Watch out, there are guys on here that only spread their cheeks for massive manufacturers that haven't done anything innovative in the past 50 years.
Both of my KSG's have been great. Funny how many keyboard warriors rag on the KSG. When you ask them "have you owned one?" or even "have you shot one?", the answer us usually something like, "well no, but a friend of mine said he heard this was true".
Had to change the followers on my KSG. Other than that it's been amazing
Same. No problems with mine
Looks like smith and wesson are adding more to their M&P collection nice
I shot the Kel Tec KSG and the DP12 at media day at shot show....I preferred the DP12 because of the double tap ability with 2 barrels.
I felt if im going to carry a heavy ass shotgun....might as well be able to send 2 shots of 00 buck almost at the same time before your first pump.
@mixflip that was exactly what we were going for.
Good on Smith for departing from the traditional. However, this seems to be a heavy, high-bore axis, expensive version of the KSG and copying the ultralight, more practical KS7 for an identical price would have made more sense IMO. I already have a KSG but honestly I want to get a KS7... 5.9 ibs! 2 tubes is fun but unnecessarily adds an extra pound
I have the KSG (which I love) but have this question. What does the KS7 do that other pumps don't? Say, the Mossberg 590, which you can get for less than $400 at times. I ask because I actually love supporting KT due to their innovation (even if they sometimes fail) but don't quite understand the KS7. It is just because it's a bullpu(m)p? Because it's about ~1 lb lighter?
@@katmandoo122 Basically it is all about the bullpup and the fact that it’s a lighter version of the KSG that gives you the same functionality as your run of the mill pump action while also offering a more compact design than other shotguns with the same shell/ ammo capacity. If you already have a reg KSG it may not make sense to get a KS7 (unless you just want one, that is). But for anyone like myself that likes the design, doesn’t have a KSG and would love to have a bullpup, it’s a very attractive SG
How is a long gun that has the barrel right in line with the shoulder, high bore axis?
I love my KS7
Hey hey hey Mr. S&w simply beautified the ksg
Hey I’m really excited to see S&W innovating and trying new things!
It’s a KSG with more plastic on it. That’s not innovation at all.
"Make sure you get a full, lengthy stroke...." Thanks for that little gem, James. And now I will do my part to start calling my KS7 and all others, "bull-pumps."
That looks very interesting. As usual, Keltec really drives innovation and firearms trends but often can’t deliver on final quality, sadly. I like Keltec for how they run their business, if not the Sig-repeated customer-driven-and-funded beta R&D. But we all benefit from other companies standing on their shoulders
those scumbags stopped us from having the aa12s scumbags .
Work on a Keltec 9mm today. Very clever yet simple design but with absolute crap quality.
Damn shame.
Keltec, great innovators, but agree on less than ideal manufacturing quality. I recently purchased their long barrel CP33 22LR target pistol for the range and competition. I am very disappointed in the overall quality including the thin, uncomfortable (non-interchangeable) grip.
They innovate with the use of several 3D printed parts. These are plastic and the printing quality is excellent. The use of Direct Metal Laser Sinterin 3DP (and other types) would change the firearms industry and significantly reduce costs. There is no need to manufacture large numbers of parts for inventory. Simply print the parts in real-time, on demand additive manufacturing.
Have exactly 175 rounds on the CP33 and can already see signs of trigger metal fatigue. Love the concept, but will probably sell it.
I dunno what you all talking about... KSG is a great firearm.. sold built, works great, never failed at range.
My KS-7 is amazing
A semi-auto version of this shotgun would be cool.
Iwi ts12 is the way to go
@@blankman6179 The TS-12 Blow's away all others.
@@blankman6179 I would add that to match my tavor 7 but Canada's firearm laws are bs. Still have my DP 12 though🤓
@@lennysinnet8567 who doesn't want a fucking massive, complex gun with a bunch of extra failure points for 1 more shell than fixed dual tubes that could be easily swapped between and can't jam between tubes
@@venomfang8560 Sadface
TFB: "S&W is listening to its customers."
Customers: "We hate the action lock in your revolvers."
S&W: "......TFB, have you shown our customers the shotgun we copied from Keltec?"
I heard their newer actions in their revolvers are shit, I wouldn't know from experience I have older Smiths who's action is like a fine Swiss watch. But are they really that terrible?
@@JustinLaFleur1990 IDK. I refuse to buy their revolvers because of that action lock. You are 100% correct on the quality of the pre-locks though.
@@kingferguson1 I own an original 4 inch S&W model 586 no dash and a 6 inch S&W model 629-4 both very fine weapons.
Coming next week! Hk releases a $900 MP5, Colt actually innovates something and keltec produces fast enough to keep product on shelves
It's definitely badass looking but I'm not too impressed with the reloading.
Agree and plus a lot some ricoil f
I'm sure that will get better over time.
I agree but if I need more then 14 rounds……I’m in some big trouble.
@@onionhead5780 that's why you should have multiple firearms available to you.
That may not be a luxury for everyone I understand this.
Then if you dont, take out your "targets" very carefully...
Yeah, the NS2000 had the best as it was break-action ish.
“Awkwardly comfortable...”. Not quite the story of my life, but it surely might have been, if not for a few “refinements to my aiming”, so-to-speak. :)
I like to see companies change it up. I have a KSG and while I haven't run a ton of shells through it, I have it set up how I like. My friend fell in love with it, so I'll show him this to get for his 12 Guage needs
Did you buddy ever get it? Do you like your KSG? Wanting to get one for myself and stuck between the KSG and this M&P12.
@@lilswank2012 I still very much enjoy the KSG. I'm looking at the A300 Ultima Patrol from Beretta as well. My buddy ended up going with another shotgun. I think it's a Turkish made shotgun
@@AnnoyoTribe sounds good, I’m an M&P fan as I have a few handguns by them and I love them. Just wasn’t sure which gun to go with as I am already biased lmao. Thank you
Nobody: “Tube feds are obsolete-“
S&W: adds a second tube
Kel-Tec: are we a joke to you?
I would rather buy a KSG then a KSG clone.
@@filasophies4423, unless the clone is a superior build, with superior ergos.
@@martylucas8557 imo dp-12 shits on them both
@@orcabolgsweetie2430 absolutely not
This was one of the best reviews I've ever seen. Clear, practical, even handed, and thorough. Thank you.
I do love my KSGs, I bought one early at the unicorn stage then one later when they were everywhere at almost half the original cost. I'm interested to see how well this compares and have they fixed what some have thought of as negatives from Kel Tec.
Between the M&P 12 and the KSG, I'll go with the Benelli M4.
Agree, I have a DP-12 which is a safe queen and have shot a KSG, but for tactical situations my Beretta 1301 is my goto.
Made me laugh so hard, I absolutely agree.
KSG all day
@@dTheHammerb ksg and benelli
hahaha
That’s a “load assist” switch, not “lotus” switch, I finally figured out. Getting old has a downside once in a while.
Lol....me too.
lmao. I totally heard lotus too
I was like wtf is a lotus switch
I used to hear “James Gan” instead of “James again” during his intros.
Thanks for that correction. I just saw the ENT Dr too.
I’m getting a “KSG from Turkey” vibe from S&W.
Seriously Smith & Wesson really should just make a pulse rifle already. "10 millimeter explosive tip caseless. Standard light armor piercing round, why?"
Railgun anyone?
Don’t forget the sharp sticks…you can maybe fry a whole steak with those puppies!
Still no phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range? Get on it S&W.
F the pulse rifle. I need a phaser rifle.
( Simon Phoenix in 2025 per 90's definition )
If this supposed to be the future, WHERE ARE ALL THE LASER GUNS?!?!?!?
I wish it automatically switched to the other magazine when the first runs empty.
Oh that would have liberals "up in arms" for it being to easy to load a round in the chamber. We can't have that now.
@@thomasrobinson9374 Really want to upset the liberals ? Put a bayonet lug on it ! L.O.L.
Next gen trust. Always something new up their sleeve.
It is engineered to be tactical when you need to switch different shells for different situations.
If you want that then go with the UTS 15 it will cycle shell both tubes so you can fire all 15 shell none stop
*randomly skips through video to see gun
"That looks cool".
"And speaking of MSRP that's gonna be eleven-hundred and sixty five dollars."
"Fuuuuuuuck youuuuuuu." *goes back to bed
Great review, I'll be keeping my Tavor TS-12
Kel-Tec has their gen 2 KSGs pretty dialed in and the base model can still be had for $800ish. The addition of the choke is nice but not really necessary considering with a good slug you can get relatively accurate shots with the KSG up to two hundred yards. Also, the within the range of standard buck and bird you would use an 18inch barreled shotgun at, the pattern is already so close you are practically getting slug performance any how.
Great video, as always. Hopefully this will satiate the market so I can get a KSG finally
The fact that it's so difficult to reload makes me have no desire to buy this shotgun when a regular shotgun does the same effect and much easier to load.
Trade offs. With this, one reloads half as much.
If you run dry with this and there's still a threat, just run. Unless you got covering fire..
This is a fail ..you should have no problems loading a damn shotgun under stress ..
How many rounds does your shotgun hold?
@@warrenharrison9490 9 shots and when that runs dry I can breach load off my side saddle very quickly. Standard pump shotguns are the king of home defense. Time tested designs that just run. When this KSG clone runs dry you are in trouble. My SXP Defender holds 6 shots but the rotating bolt shoots the pump back so in the middle of taking a shot I can prepare the next shell to be breached and do that until I’m out of ammo. Not empty mag out of ammo I mean there are literally no shells left in sight. It’s the perfect self defense shotgun. Ease of use. Practical design. Actual innovation not just a copy off some other company.
This is a cool looking shotgun but belongs in the same class as a shockwave. It’s not practical and the hardware is new so despite this guys gun running fine who knows what will happen down the line.
To answer your question my shotgun holds as many rounds as I can carry… and then some.
@@jayquick6520 not practical? Once again, if you need more ammo than this holds (in a self defense situation) you’ve got much bigger problems. Besides everyone knows it’s quicker to switch to your sidearm than reload.
All we want from S&W right now is a shield plus trigger in their double stack pistols. Thanks
What Paul H said 👍🏻
Right?! And why did it take so long to CORE all things?! Sigh...
Facts
9:40 "Hey Joe, can you just randomly throw shot shells at the gun while I film it?" "Uh, sure..."
I'd love to see a full comparison between this M&P12, the Kel-Tec KSG, and the Standard Manufacturer DP-12. I understand the DP-12 is a different setup, in that there's no barrel switching. You said the M&P12 is a much more premium design than the Kel-Tec KSG. However, I'd argue the SM DP-12 is the most well made of these 3 (the increased price does reflect this). I guess what interests me most is reliability, and ease of reloading. Reloading isn't the biggest deal, though. I suspect most people will buy these for home defense, as they hold so many 2.75" shells when compared to a standard shotgun. It certainly would be a massive capacity improvement over my 1980 Remington 1100.
Something tells me the only serious use this shotgun will ever see is in movies.
Non lock revolvers is what they need to do again.
Using modern materials make a 32 mag Slightly smaller than a I frame revolver , Slight bigger that a NAA but with a good DA. Built in laser /light Since they own criminson Trace ...decent trigger
Sadly, seems in 21 most revolver manufacturers (S&W, Colt and Kimber) have gone the other way and reduced their revolver offerings. Pity, since in reality 90% of civilian handgun owners would be better served with a revolver.
@@montycasper4300 I know, right? I been looking for a S&W 648 in .22M. No stocky anywhere.☹️
Patiently awaiting the M&P 12 vs. KSG vs. Tavor TS-12 shootout. 😁
Yes!!!!!
When you think it's an April Fools joke, and remember it's August.
Exactly what I thought when I saw the thumbnail.
Steep learning curve to run that gun. Looks like fun, with my low recoil slugs but it would be a long time before I would rely on it for self defense. Would be great if it automatically switched over to the full magazine when one runs dry.
Press the bottom “soft” and it’s easier load. Press it harder and it craps out all the shells??? Guessing this is gonna be an big issue under stress. We shall see
Hopefully holds enough shells that you shouldn't have to reload.
If the situation is that far gone, you and your shotgun might as well crap yourselves together.
If you need to fire that many rounds "under stress" and you need to reload, there's going to be more than shells crapped out all over the place.
I’d rather have the semi auto beretta.
My gf calls me her bull pump
Have to agree with you, Benelli M4 or 1301 LTT FTW!
KSG is fun only after you got the face pad, extended tube switch, muzzle brake, and... after a warranty repair so it actually works.
I got myself a keltec ks7. Absolutely love it, supper light weight and reliable. Personally not a big fan of the dual mag tubes that all the other bullpumps have like the m&p 12. I just don't think the added ammo capacity justifies the complexity and weight. Reloading a bullpump after a while really isn't to bad if you don't try to treat it like an 870.
I'd love to see a side by side comparison of this gun with the KSG. Specifically I'm thinking of how well each ejects spent shells. I have a KSG and sometimes (more often then I would like) I have to stop to get my last spent round out of the chamber. It seems like the contours that help keep the chamber closed during fire can get in the way and dent the rim of a ejecting shell...sometimes not letting it go. Anyway...I would love to see if S&W does this a lot better.
Joseph, that's interesting, you might want to contact Kel-Tec about that. I have been carrying a KSG on duty since they were released, I qualify with it quarterly with buck and slugs, have shot a LOT of rounds through it and have never had any issue with ejection. It does have a bit more recoil than I'd like, but I'll put up with that for the size, mag capacity and functionality. What I love about the side by side selectable feed tubes is that I load one with buck and one with slugs, so I have my choice of what I load when I remove it from the car.
@@johnfriend862 I actually did contact kel-tec about it and sent the gun back in Nov 2020 for repair. They replaced several internal parts and the issue did improve noticeably but it is not gone. If it matters, I typically train with 2 3/4" bird shot shells (I have a lot of those). As the action is a manual pump and shell rim dimensions are standardized I would not expect that to make a difference.
Joe Wallace mine does the same thing. Just got it a month ago.
I really like that gun it’s compact and it looks like it may make a home defense gun . But with a msrp of 1100 it puts out of my price range.
But overall it’s a nice looking gun
I'll keep my panzer arms bullpup mag fed 12g.
After a weekend shooting to break in the recoil spring its been good to go with 0 hiccups since.
Not a bad $600 buy during covid.
Just get a shockwave for little less than half the price.
I love the fact that they kept the pistol grip from their handguns
It's inevitable I will talk myself into purchasing this...
Looks almost perfect the lower looks like a bit of a afterthought but the upper looks awesome maybe aftermarket will sort it out
The more i look at it it's growing on me
It makes me happy that guns actually look like I hoped they would back when I was a kid, so futuristic and cool
This thing is love at first sight. Smith and wesson has always been my favorite. Gotta get this!
You into ugly girls too?
I agree ! I never was interested in AR 15s until Smith and Wesson started making them. Bought two of them and the quality is outstanding.
@@archcunningham5579 yes same! I always told myself if I ever buy an AR-15 it's gonna be by a good company. Rn I currently have an M&P sport 2 on layaway can't wait to get it.
@@rubixfilms687 If you get a chance, try to get your hands on some military ''Green Tip '' ammo for your new AR. Both myself and a friend who also owns a Smith and Wesson AR have gotten phenomenal accuracy with it. Commercial ammo doesn't come close to it. Good Luck !
@@archcunningham5579 yeah I got some been stocking up on them can't wait to shoot em👍
"2021 : Beretta's making revolvers"
Shows a French revolver in production since 1973.
I laughed.
its spelled "laughed"
@@Shep01 Thanks ^^
But still not a Beretta :p
A bit of a stretch to make it work but you smelled what I was stepping in.
I thought this was weird until I saw this review. Dual tubes!? Able to handle minis too! That’s awesome. Plus it is a CQB weapon. My next shotgun!
That Molly line made me laugh so loud I woke my kid up
I think I will stick to my KSG. Holds more ammo, easier loading, lighter weight, no uncomfortable rubbing on my thumb, I can also use 1 3/4" mini shells, just as upgradable with plenty of attachments already on the market, cheaper price with great quality, and swapping to the other tube is way easier. No offense Smith and Wesson. I love your revolvers.
I bought my KSG for $800 from a local dealer in town 7 years ago. Changed out the factory tube selector for sturdier and longer aftermarket selector. Changed out the cheap plastic followers for aftermarket as well. Threw on a breach tip and a red dot and it’s my go to home defense weapon. And it does hold more minis. 24 +1. I like how smooth slugs pull too. I even skeet with this damn thing. Lol. Love it.
@@hashtagmethree2381 that's weird I just got mine 2 years ago brand new from my dealer for about $430 before covid I was seeing them for about $600 but I do love mine tried skeet shooting with it never again 🤦🏾♂️ I didn't hit a damn thing
@@Quaway252 why’s that weird? I have a gen 1 KSG. I bought it shortly after it launched. It was extremely hard to find. I paid $800, whereas the MSRP and everywhere else was selling it for $1,100, if they even had one.
I fail to see what you think is weird about this…
@@hashtagmethree2381 when I said weird I meant as in damn the value was up then dropped badly and went back up because of the gun scare last year. That's weird $800 to $430 both brand new then back to $1000-1100 brand new during covid.
The S&W also takes 1 3/4 mini shells 2 3/4. And 3"
Whatever Smith and Wesson is taking to be more on the creative side, they're doing a great job coming out new things.
If that was a semi, I’d be excited.
You should check out the Panzer Arms BP-12
@@jimmyliddell2072 Thanks. Good suggestion. Tavor didn't really stay with their normal formula for their shotgun. PA's is almost like a more Tavor, Tavor. Those 5 round mags are huge though.
@@hemaccabe4292 Yeah, it’s not the ideal shotgun yet, but that certainly hasn’t kept me from drooling over it, ha ha.
You should definitely check out the IWI TS-12. If you want a semi-automatic with high-capacity and not a pump action. Had mine for a month and we went through 150 shells without a single misfire
As of now, there’s nothing else online about this. Can’t wait for more info.
I work there and I did not know about this.
Been there done it already, Kel Tec KSG satisfied 💪🏾
Oof. I only spent $600 on my KSG. This is a bit of a stretch for me.
I’m actually really excited for this gun. I think it would be even more appealing if the tubes automatically alternated between pumps, rather than utilizing a selector switch.
More versatility in the selector though.
Nice! I like the reliability of my smith and wesson firearms! I have a kel tec ksg and I love it never had a problem with it ever! I cant wait to shoot one of these to compare! I haven't been excited for a new firearm in a while!
I'm still waiting for a mod for the dp 12 to fire both barrels simultaneously. This seems like a step back.
As per the AFT, that would turn it into a machine gun.
@@nocount7517 Unless the mod added a second trigger, say 2 slim triggers (equal to the side of the current trigger) that when pulled fired both barrels
Pressure.
We messed with the idea but that's a lot of 12 Gauge at one time.
Is it rated for use against Xenomorphs?
Heavy enough buck or semi-armor-piercing high explosive slugs, yep, might just do for Colonial Marine Corps standards 😎👍
It's so nice having such good GunTubers now. Back in the day when it was just Hickok
Honestly I would love to see that after you empty your one tube it will automatically switch on over to the other tube instead of pressing the trigger and it just clicks and then you have to change. In a high stress situation, that's going to suck. That purpose alone will deter me from using something like this for defensive weapon.
I had to scroll way too far to see this. Even my cheap mossberg 500 has a mechanism to lock the fore-end back/open when the tube is empty. The lack of that feature on the S&W is 100% going to get someone killed or make a hunter miss their shot. Very poor design choice
As compared to what? You have 7 rounds in this. Most shotties don't hold that many rounds so when this clicks, I guarantee that pushing the button is faster than a reload on, say, a Remmy 870. So unless you're talking about a semi shotgun, at what point will having access to another 7 rounds by pushing a button get you killed?
@@katmandoo122 pretty much any shotgun properly equipped for "combat" should hold at least 7 so long as it's not an SBS.
@@Xtorin_Housecat_Ohern Actually, I doubt that is true. I would guess average capacity of a civilian, off-the-rack shotgun is a 6+1 at best. But regardless, ok, let's say you buy a Binelli M4 and increase the capacity to 7+1. Your $2,000 shottie now has the same capacity as the M&P12 or KSG in ONE tube. You fire 7. Would you rather reload the semi-auto one at a time or push a button to access 6/7 more? There are no circumstances in which the MP12 or KSG gets you killed versus a "normal" shotty due to a button or lever push. Reliability? Accuracy? Sure, maybe, but not a button push. It's just faster, always.
Looks very similar to my DP-12... fully loaded it is HEAVY but with it you can 2 shots per pump 😍
It amazes me how the DP12 never gets love. I sold my ksg, too light plus the empty brass kept hitting the bone on my wrist. My DP12 was clearly better, built like a tank, lighter recoil and balanced. The ksg felt like it would crack if dropped, too much plastic.
@@collinsingleton6899 i know right! Glad to see another DP12 owner.. gee I was starting to think I was the only one 😅
@@jemmrich I'm a part of a gun group on facebook standard manufacturing DP12 owners group, you should join.
@@collinsingleton6899 niiice I'll join 😄
Thanks for the video James. I own a KelTec KSG and have used a variety of 2-3/4 as well as the Aguila shorties, small shot and slugs. All do well and give multiple victim...oops , I mean "target"- results. Ideal home close quarters firearm. I do like the tube switch being forward of the trigger on the Smith & Wesson. So far, I would like to see a long term comparison to see which model holds up with rigorous usage. Hope you and all friends in Louisiana have a swift storm and Covid recovery. JwgK in Houston
"You might need three hands"
Damn I only got three legs :/
That was actually pretty clever lol I see you, @Not My Name
I literally just reactively threw my money at the screen as a reflex. I need this
This video was playing in the background of a Snapchat clip I saw from Kabul. The entire country of Afghanistan is collapsing but some TFBTV fan in Kabul isn't going to miss your latest video. If I were James I would be pretty impressed.
The Governor/Judge 410 pistol shotguns are super underrated when you use the specialized 410 loads for handguns. Ironically, they go from a meme to one of the best handguns for HOME defense.
410 000 Federal handgun buckshot makes them a monster but that's really the only option.
@@derek4117 Federal 000 buck is good. But Lehigh makes a specialized bullet that only fits the Judge's extended cylinder. The wound channel is 2..3 inches wide!
Don't forget PDX 12BB's and 4 .40cal disks. Pretty hard to miss w 60 BBs and 20 40. cal disks on five trigger pulls.
@@mikeb2496 I think the discs are good, but those BBs just take up space. They don't do anything in terms of penetration. Probably piss someone off though. The discs penetrate less than 000 buck too, about 4 inches difference.
I was hoping it would feed from both tubes, it is just a KSG clone with a cross bolt tube selector and less mini shell capacity.
I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that would firmly in the AOW category
@@Terabit3 Feed from both magazine tubes like a UTS 15, not fire from them, their is only 1 barrel.
@@AndrewW. Oh. Ok. I guess I didn't understand at first when I posted
heavier too lmao
Glad to see Kel Tec taking hold. The only company trying new things.
So, how long until KelTec sues for some sort of patent infringement
For $1200; I'll stay with my $700 KSG. I've had my KSG for years and never had a problem w/ it.
Literally the one question I have. Does the ksg do it better and just as sturdy?
@@dominantwolf4593 Good question; If the M&P12 was priced better, It'd be great to compare the 2. Maybe hickok45 will do a video on that.
@@robjones1943 I’ve heard of some folks having problem with the KSG being finicky with certain types of ammo that true ?
@@elidiaz9980 I've heard that but, so far everything I've shot w/, doesn't seem to have a problem.
@@elidiaz9980 I shoot everything out of it and no problems here, had it for years. A lot of people also can’t run the ksg, you have to rack it like you mean it lol
I was set on the Ksg …but after watching this video I’ve changed my mind…I’m getting the M&P 12…
Thanks Brother great video …
Amazing how identical it is to the KSG. Literally a clone.
Except the smith actually works
It's the Sigma all over again
@@John_Redcorn_ I see someone hasn’t touched a KSG
@@John_Redcorn_ KSG is actually used by some special forces units. I think the S&W would be a lot nicer given the improved ergonomics but the KSG is not a bad gun
@@neopup1776 i have, its dog shit
I'll stick with 6+1 in my semi, with the ability to reload on the fly without looking. 3 shells topped off in 5 seconds, in the dark, while walking. Weighing 7 pounds. Weighing less but also with less recoil. I don't mind the extra length. The bull pump may be shorter, but it's thicker. Those are things she said. I think I'd get sick of carrying that thing fast, and as many times you said it would get smoother or easier over time, that action looks awkward and clunky, therefore unreliable in the cauldron of battle.
Bullpups aren't necessarily thicker, it's just that this one has the weird 2 tube design. It's not a problem with bullpups it's a problem with this "innovative" design.
@@картошка-т5э Well, then I prefer my Semi-auto over any pump, especially a pump that provides its capacity by being thicc.
that I can agree on
@@картошка-т5э OK, that's solved. Middle-Eastern peace next. You first.
This would go great with my M&P15!!!
Keltec R&D: Welcome to the club.
S&W R&D: Thanks
Keltec R&D: Cocaine?
S&W R&D: No I brought my own.
They lost me at the awkward reloading.
While this does seem like a gimmick and is and likely always will be a niche market for this style of build but in its defense, if the problem can be solved with 14 shots in the tubes, then it just wasn't meant to be solved.
I'll have to keep an eye on it. Most of my interest in bullpups comes from the form factor. A longarm that fits in my car is better than one that doesn't after all.
Soo for the same price as this heavy, goofy loading, pump shotgun, I can buy a berreta 1301 tac?
Or about six Mavericks...
Don't know why you'd want more than one, or not buy a better shotgun. (No offense to Mossberg or any Maverick owner but the 500 and 590 are worth the price over the Maverick).
Honestly. Semiauto shotguns with traditional stocks are the way to go if you aren't using magazine fed semiautos.
1301 with Aridus parts is a game changer. Fast, comfortable, capable.
@@andreivaldez2929 I don't know anyone who owns just one fork🙃
Why should one buy this over the KelTec?
S&W has better quality overall than Kel-Tec.
Bias. Nothing else