Wake Boat VS Forward Drive - May Not Be What You Think - The Trevor Theismann Show 1019
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2022
- I searched and searched and searched for this video. I was trying to figure out whether or not I wanted a wake boat or a forward facing drive bowrider. As far as internet research goes, they both seem to be a great option for wake surfing behind a boat. After watching tons of videos and attending the 2022 Kansas City Boat Show I finally have come to my conclusion. The question is which boat is right for you? Do you enjoy the massive wave behind the newer subfloor ballast wake boats? Or, are you more interested in a walkway, tons of storage, and a competitive surf wave for the family? I find myself coming to the realization that we will not be professional wake surfers and I believe the forward drive to be a better fit for my family. Let me explain the pros and cons of each boat and why I have come to my conclusion.
#wakesurfing
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A big-long wave is not just for experts. It is also much easier for beginners to ride when off-rope
because it has more “push”.
I owned a 2015 Moomba Mojo 23’ (that required a “ghetto-gate” to make a good wave, a 2016 Natique G21 and a 2017 G23. Of these, the G23 had by-far the best wave, but for novices, a Malibu LSV25 makes a much longer wave that
does not have a trough near the transom. The Malibu 21’ makes a lame wave as does the Natique G21. However, my hunch is that they are better than any of the forward-facing drives. (I hope I’m wrong about this)
A 2021 Mastercraft 24’ makes a wave similar to the 2017 era Natique G23.
Hope this helps!
Trevor - There are some things you have missed. I have surfed behind a forward drive and I have a wake boat, I considered both options when purchasing. 1) Size - Wake boats don't count the swin platform in the length, so a 23ft wake boat = 25 ft bowrider when it comes to length. 2) Storage vs ballast - this is a simple tradeoff for comparable quality boats. Compare storage on a Nautique with a Cobalt, you will find a more balanced comparison. So of the aggressive wake boats have a ton of soft bags chewing up the storage, but not all wake boats. the Nautique G series in particular has underfloor ballast, and a ton of storage. 3) Wake Size - bigger wakes are for bigger people... this is not a skill factor issue but a bigger wake has a bigger sweet spot for riding, plus wake boats typically have a wave that is more configurable to be long or tall, this adds to the enjoyment for novice all the way to pro. After the first season, my wife is carving it up, and the bigger wave is nice. 4) Price - when you compare similar equipment and power for similar build quality, the price delta comes down considerably. I did a few reviews myself, and found that the wake boat premium was modest, and would be justified often through improve sound systems, more powerful engines, or other additional features. and 5) Driveability - forward drive boats are MASSIVELY easier to drive than inboards, I have gotten used to it mostly, but using a rudder to steer versus a prop moving to steer is very, very, very different. trailering, docking, etc... everything is harder with an inboard wake boat.
I wouldn’t call it “harder”. I would call it different. I can maneuver an inboard like anything else I drive. It just takes time and practice
Not gonna lie, I wanna see the forward drive on an outboard. Just to see if they can do it and how it might improve those.
Thanks for creating this series, Trevor. These exact thoughts have been noodling around my brain as I think about a new boat. There is one additional point of differentiation between inboard wake boats and these I/O bow runners that use the Volvo Penta engine with the forward drive: the quick drain button on the Volvo that drains the water from the engine, which allows you to hit the water on nice fall/winter days even after all the inboards have been winterized. Here in the Carolina’s, those days can add up almost to the point of being another season. That point is at the top of my pro/con list. Also, more minor points you may have missed, but you can steer an I/O in reverse and they appear to get better fuel economy. I think you captured everything else and opened my eyes to points I hadn’t considered or wasn’t aware of. I especially like your take on not needing the biggest most perfect wave to surf. It’s easy to get caught up in the marketing hype when all we really want to do is get out there and have some imperfect fun.
Good additions. Steering should have been included in the video. Docking can be very difficult on a wake boat. I talked to a dealer and asked about that quick drain method and he was not very reassuring. I was thinking the same as you. What a perk! He said that he would not only use that method in cold temperatures. He said he doesn’t know anyone in the industry that is recommending doing only that for winterizing. But that was only one mechanics recommendation so take it for what it’s worth. Mercruiser is now also in the game in some of these forward drive boats. I wonder what it’s method is or if it has one.
@@KbandsTraining you don’t want to use the Volvo easy drain as your only winterization tool as you would want to stabilize your fuel, do oil change, etc for a proper winterization, but it does dump the raw water from the engine coolant system, so you don’t have to worry about the cracking the engine if you want to use the boat after nighttime temps dip into the 30’s. We have so many fall, spring, even winter days that are in the 60’s-70’s where I look out at the lake and think “I would really like to go for a cruise”, but I can’t because the wake boat is winterized. Seems like a huge perk that doesn’t get mentioned very often.
Do you still have to add antifreeze at all or no?
Nice video but I’ve got a couple of comments. I currently own a wake-boat, but I call it a water sports boat. It can do it all-surf, board, and ski, and it can do it better than any bow rider ( you didn’t touch on hull design but water sport boats hulls are designed to make a better wave) . As far as storage-the new water sports boats have tons of storage, plus the tower has racks and surf board storage pockets. As you switch riders out, the boards are always going on the tower where it is convenient to access. Many of the new water sport boats now have transom seating for hanging out in the cove. As far as getting in and out, I’ve never thought twice about stepping up and using the center walkway. If you are athletic enough to surf, this won’t be an issue. One thing you didn’t mention was performance. A water sports boat will win every time. Their engines are tuned for water sports. They have tons of horsepower and low end torque to pull up a surfer, boarder, or skier. Also Zero Off gps speed control is integrated into the touch screen for ease of use, unlike most bow riders. To each his own, but if you are really into water sports, a Nautique, Malibu, Mastercraft, Supra, Tige’, Centurion, etc. will always be superior overall.
great write up. Have you been on any of the newer forward drive set-ups yet? I agree with everything you are saying compared to a standard bowrider. Just curious if you have experienced these new surf style boats?
No, I haven’t been on one with a forward drive. It would be interesting to surf on one. I’ve seen them at boat shows and they are nice boats. I don’t think they are as good at wake shaping as a wake-board boat. Also, a wake-board boat can build a massive wave and believe me, you will always want more. The good thing today is that there are so many choices of surf boats. Good luck with your purchase.
I’m hopeful that these forward drives challenge the wake boats. The evolution of the walk through will hopefully be embraced. I too am super excited to see these style boats wave size. The cobalt and chaparrals both use Malibu gate technology. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I think you're going about this decision the right way. I have a family of five and went from a Bryant bowrider to an MB V-drive mid-late summer last year. At the time I bought the Bryant, I thought it was on par with Cobalt and initially looked at their fwd drive options. I really liked the interior layouts better as well. You mentioned space. I noticed in my shopping that the fwd drive boats were typically offered on larger boats. Due to tow vehicle and garage limitiations, I targeted the 20'-22' boats and really felt like 21' was my sweet spot. It seems that most bowrider manufacturers use their larger models as their surf editions. I assume weight and bow rise are factors in doing so, but I just couldn't see myself in a 24' boat. Being around sterndrives all of my life, there's a maintenance learning curve, but there are no more bellows to worry about and changing gear oil is much simpler. I have more storage in the MB than I did the Bryant. I did get used to the storage layout in the Bryant. I had a certain spot for everything and could access it right when I needed it. I think the storage in the MB is less compartmentalized which has made it more difficult for me to keep my accessories organized. I haven't had a major docking snafu yet. I'm more anxious doing so, but that just might come from the fact that this boat costs much more!
I’ve always wondered how I would handle that. Does the price tag make you worry the entire time you’re on the boat? Do you have a walkway on your boat?
@@KbandsTraining I don't have a walkway. It would be nice for getting in and out of the water, but I have a hard time visualizing how I'd use it while docking. I've always done my best to take care of my boats, no matter the price tag. At the same time, if you're not risking a scratch or ding, you're probably not enjoying the boat!
Also, have you thought about service or parts for each boat configuration? A good dealer with good service should play into your decision as well. I'm not sure how long the season is where you're located, but I wouldn't want to spend a month of it waiting on a part to get my boat back on the water.
Currently I do not have much experience with dealers. But that is a really good point.
Nothing matters but the wave. He starts talking about it at 4:20
Let me just say great video and many good points but let me just bring something up that I didn’t see mentioned. And that’s the draft. These forward drives are tucked under the swim platform and when you trim it up you only gain a few inches of draft as the lowest point swaps between the skeg and the front of the propeller assembly. I owned a Regal LS2 surf and for the 1800 pounds of ballast it had the wave was solid. But it drafted like 42 inches for a 22ft boat. And around 37-38 with the drive all the way up. I found the bottom way too often. Lucky it was soft. Just my .02.
To be clear. When you were loaded to surf and you put the trim up you found that you bottomed out often? What do you mean be that?
When surfing the lowest point on the motor was the skeg. Approximately 42 inch draft. When moving boat into shallower water or beach/sandbar you had to be super careful as you can only gain 4-5 inches of reduced draft if you trim the lower unit all the way as high as possible. Which results in around 37-38 inch draft as the best the boat can accomplish. This has to do with how far the forward drive is tucked under and how long it is. The lowest point when trimmed all the way up is the tip of the propeller assembly.
Also because of the draft/lower unit the trailer had the boat sit very high as to not scrape concrete when trailering. This resulted in having to really get deep on boat ramps to the point that my full size truck had the rear bumper and exhaust under water I order to float off. Not amazing when operating in brackish or saltwater.
@@KbandsTrainingit means he is dumb, didn’t know where he was boating, and ran his boat aground a few times 😅 but he honestly brings up a great point in the comparison between the different drives. If you’re in shallow areas regularly or SoFlo, forward drives aren’t great due to draft. Great Lake boat for deep lakes.
The one thing I've always had a question about since the forward drive technology was first introduced was is it possible to retro fit a regular stern drive bow rider to just be able to basically replace the motor with a forward drive? Like I just wanna know if it would be possible and if so how much it would end up costing and if it would be worth doing that over buying a whole new boat and I just can't find a single thing online from anyone explaining this question
I asked a dealer the same thing and he said you could not do that, but that's the only thing i have to go off.
Forward drive is way bigger speed with 6000 rpm , I have regal ls4 so max speed is 55m/h but all wake boats is 35-37 max speed with 5700-6000 rpm, I prefer forward drive plus antifreeze so easy to do winterize it
These I/O forward facing boats cost as much as a wake boat. Wave is worse and not as good for wakeboarding. Bunks have to be very high so you have to put the boat deep in the water to launch. The trim is very minimal on a forward facing vs conventional i/o. If you plan to surf like 5-10% and you can't be bothered to tolerate the low speed steering, then maybe this is a good option. But I think these boats are not going to be ubiquitous any time soon.
Not sure. Will be one one in a week and will report back.
How did it go?
Forward drive is way bigger speed with 6000 rpm , I have regal ls4 so max speed is 55m/h but all wake boats is 35-37 max speed with 5700-6000 rpm, I prefer forward drive plus antifreeze so easy to do winterize it
Forward is way faster and it’s mean if you will take 100 hours so forward drive will be less wear because to get 35 miles per hour wake boat is using 5700rpm but forward drive is going 50m/h with 5700 rpm
I mean the engine will be in less wear on forward drive
I have not surfed behind the volvo fwd drives, can the surf wave push a 230lbs 6 fedt tall person? o do not need tje best wave, just one tgat is long enough and hard enough to push and hold big riders.
I agree. The way the boats are designed are pretty great to have a walk through and more area for the family to hang out, but the big question will be how does the wave on these hold up. I'll have access to a forward drive in the summer and I'll let you know what i find. I'm 6'4" and weigh about 215 so I'll have a pretty good opinion after I give a try.
Yes
Surfed behind both. Behind a Cobalt.. Sucked compared to my old 08 SAN 230 set up for surfing. Couldn't get the Cobalt to make a good wave. Funny thing though, my son was square behind the Cobalt and when we hit power, he was humoursly blown out of the water.... But crap wave!
Did they add any weight to it at all?
$250,000 for a walkway… Priceless.
I own a Volvo Penta and am discovering that maintenance and repair is prohibitively expansive which would be no big deal if Volvo stepped up to the plate when it comes to warranty claims. Getting them to pay for their weak and overly complex system failures is worse than pulling teeth.
Did you end up buying a new boat this year?
Ya I bought the forward drive. Just got it a week ago. Give me a couple weeks and I'll have my final opinion.
@@KbandsTraining Did you get the Regal?
I went with the crownline e255 surf. i liked the way the speakers were outside of the tower so my kids won't loose their hearing. lot's of other things I liked as well. I like to hydrofoil so being able to rack the hydrofoils and get them out of the way was important. Also being able to go over 25mph with ballast was something I was looking for. I have been working on the wave for my wife right now. Really nice boat though.
I really loved the regal at the boat show but the time it would take to get it was way to long to wait.
@@KbandsTraining Makes a lot of sense. I just called my local dealer about the same boat. I have an inboard now and looking for my next boat.
give me a week or two and ill give you a in depth perspective. I love the layout of the forward drives. much more family friendly and easier to move around to the deck to help kids without crawling over things. We will see if I can accomplish a perfect surf wave. Everyone I know with a wake boat still adds weight to get it dialed in. So if surfing is your thing let me see what I can make before I have my final opinion.
Is this a parody account? Seriously, "you might have to pull your knee up to climb into the boat". are you serious? Your number one selling feature of a WAKE boat, is the transom step/design? Also, wake surfing is not new, it's been around for at least 15 years, so welcome to 2008. stern drives (and yes, forward facing prop design is still a stern drive because the lower unit steers the boat, not a rudder) have improved, but can't hold a candle to a proper wake boat for surging. Wakeboarding, maybe.
If you want to surf, buy a surf boat. You will never be satisfied with a forward drive if you want to surf.
have you been on a forward drive?
@@KbandsTraining yes
You can start surfing on a mediocre wave but once you get more proficient at it you’ll wish you had the better wave.
Just curious, did you mess with extra weight and different positions as most people do with their wake boats?
Also a wave that looks good is not necessarily good to the untrained eye. For example some huge waves have no push or the pocket may be very small. Once you get into the scene you’ll start to notice little things that make a huge difference.