1:22:00 I am in tears. I am currently a student at BYUI and this EXACT situation happened to me. He is outwardly such an "ideal mormon guy who can do no wrong", and my bishop (who is also his bishop) absolutely LOVES him. He r*ped me and I was way too terrified that my bishop wouldn't believe me if I told him that I just went along in my semester and never reported it. This happened this past summer. I carry that pain with my every day. My freaking accounting tutor even sexually assaulted me when we were hanging out after tutoring. OH and the best part: I have talked to so SO many girls with similar experiences at Byui. none of them report it in fear of THEM getting kicked out because "the boy was in their room and that's against the rules so it would also be their fault". breaks my heart.
I hope u find the courage to be able to leave that toxic environment. It doesn’t matter if the bishop believes u, because our Heavenly Father is is all knowing, and righteous god. He knows the truth, and will cast judgment those who have wronged u.
I think its important for you and anyone else going through something like this to know that, though it used to be the Honor Code's policy to punish students for breaking minor rules when reporting sexual assault, that is no longer the case. They will NOT punish you for anything, including drinking, being out late, etc. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not being honest with you.
I really appreciate the host of this show. I love how after people share really traumatic things he takes a beat to walk through their experience from an objective and rational perspective and really getting into the nuance of HOW and WHY what the church did to them wrong and then goes on to ask them how it made them feel and then validates those feelings. Idk if he's a therapist or just someone with a really high EQ (emotional intelligence), but I find listening to these podcasts very introspective and healing.
I'm not mormon, not even an English-speaker and I've binge-watched hundreds of episodes already. He is really good at it, and some of the guests are incredibly interesting and eloquent too.
...and, critically to the sentiment of the journey, is a great listener, feeler, reflector in what have to be monumentus moments in the lives of the faithful. Simply and only making thay distinction of "quality of listener" ❤ over "quantity of achievements" @@lizzybeary
As a current BYU I student I can totally tell how fake, judgmental, and ignorant a lot of people are here. Another advice for anyone who wants to go to BYUI. Never ever confess anything to any bishop or leader. Look for help from other sources or people. Or keep everything between just you and God only.
Very good advice. If you need help you need to go see professionals. Not a random old man who uses a Mandela of gods authority to tell people what to do, for as well intentioned as any bishops may be. They are not counselors, therapists, or professionals in any area where they pretend to be. It’s so fucked up that the church acts like the god gives them special powers of unearned skill in these areas. It’s evil and harmful.
I once told a church leader I attended a Shabat meal with Jewish college students. and was involved in Holocaust remembrance week. He freaked out and wanted to take away my recommend.
It is not the young women's responsibility to save the Young men's thoughts and behaviors. We are responsible for our own thoughts and behaviors. We can only ask for forgiveness for our self.
Sam should become a therapist! She is so insightful. I think this story is a good example of why places like BYU are not safer. Rather than teaching people to act like adults and take responsibility for their behavior, BYU makes arbitrary rules like, “Don’t be alone with a boy.” And then when you inevitably break that rule, you’re told it’s your fault for being assaulted. Also, I don’t think frat houses are healthy either, or the only alternative to BYU. Most college experiences fall in between. I think it’s a common misconception of Utah Mormons that if you aren’t in the church, the only other lifestyle is complete debauchery
I feel so so sorry for Chandler. She often laughs-off these horribly traumatic experiences as she recalls them. There is so much healing that still needs to happen for her and I hope she can someday find peace. She deserves peace & healing. And I am so proud of her for speaking out.
As a non-Mormon watching these videos for the past month has been so disturbing to me. As a mom to be so oblivious to your child coming home from school whether it be junior high /high school and not noticing the stress and anxiety and therefore not protecting your child is just absurd! Shame on these parents for being so out of touch. And for these young adults in most of these videos who are listening to their gut - and being able to question the religion/cult is so amazing and honorable. They are literally saving themselves from something they were put into by their families. I thank you for these podcasts and the work you are doing to give these people a form- I think it’s really healing❤
We have to remember many of the parents were raised or indoctrinated to this being RIGHTEOUS. It is tragic this culture and control is passed down generation to generation.
I feel blessed. Lucky. Whatever you want to call it. I went against the grain and married someone outside of my religion. Also outside of my race and culture. That guy. Is my best friend. Early in our marriage, I was getting ready for a date with my husband after our first child. I was so excited to do something, anything but baby care, and to do it with my husband. We were going to a movie that serves dinner. He walked in on my doing the clothing test to myself in the mirror. I changed clothes several times. My body was different after giving birth and nothing looked or felt right. I finally settled on my outfit and we were getting ready to go when we walked outside and it’s the middle of June and I am in a long sleeved sweater. He asks me if I want a chance to change now that we both realize how it is. I grabbed a jacket! Thinking I needed more coverage. We had a fairly long conversation and it was really uncomfortable for me. He told me, regardless of how many layers or how covered my body was. It didn’t stop a man from “using his imagination”. That it didn’t have to be, solely men. Any person on this planet could use their imagination to think and fantasize about me naked. Regardless of what I wore. How I stood or walked and sat down or bent over. The realization hit me pretty hard that no matter what I did. I could never stop the imagination. So why have a heat stroke in June attempting to be overly modest on a date with my husband ((and we have just had a kid……so obviously we “did it”)). It made me realize that regardless of how much I tried to be invisible, I was no match for imagination. I felt free in that moment because there was never any way to be pious enough to keep the whole earth from using their mind. What those people may or may not have thought about me. Was their problem, not mine, or at least not any longer.
my wife was in the same situation with the middle school boyfriend thing. all her bishop said to her parents was that she just got a little scared. i guess being raped in Preston Idaho is just being a little scared. that young man was sent on a mission regardless.
I was nothing short of horrified after hearing about her experiences and especially after hearing about how often r*pes are reported (and I used to believe in the "false r*pe accusation" fear mongering when I almost fell into the manosphere rabbit hole back in college) but as usual I found some parallels to my experience as an ex-Catholic. I also very much loved and was loyal to the Church I was raised for years (I considered going to the the Catholic version of Bible colleges as I thought more mainstream ones like Notre Dame were too liberal) and in one of the cultier groups I was part of used new names as well (supposedly it was for security reasons and keep our identities hidden) so as a result I followed a high demand version of it, I also felt endless shame regarding my sexuality and confessed it to a guy in robes quite often so I sometimes wonder if anyone would want to date someone possibly broken like me now that I'm in my late 20's. Even then I feel like one of the luckier former believers as my straight, cis and male privilege within the Church is probably one of the things that made me stay longer than I should have. I wish nothing but the best for Chandler and thank you for allowing her to tell her story.
John, I love these interviews with a female cohost. You are modeling appropriate behavior for the patriarchy, AND empowering young women. Double good!!! I love you, Carah, Samantha and for the work you do.
@@360playz7 - Why do you feel the need to minimize Sam’s equal role in co-hosting? Why do you feel it’s acceptable for you to make John into some misogynistic male w/ no ability or desire to equalize a woman’s skills & role in contributing separate from their friendship? Why can’t choosing Sam to co-host be primarily because she balanced what he brought w/ his own skills & gifts? That comment was seriously inappropriate. Do better please.
I went to school with both Sam and Chandler at BYUI. I was truly an invisible nobody, so I know they have no idea who I am, but I remember them from that time, and I am so so so happy that they are now out and away from the church and helping support others with such strength and wisdom!
Graduated from BYU-I back in 2013 with History and Political science degree. Generally loved my teachers, but the place was psychotic. Perhaps ironically, the experience was the final catalyst that was my exit from the LDS Church a few years later.
As a never Mormon, the idea of going to a Bishop rather than your parent seems like breaking the parent-child relationship. My parents were my “go to” people for dealing with middle school and high school relationships and sexual matters. My parents wouldn’t have allowed the Church to interfere with the parent-child bond! Now as a parent with adult children, I can’t imagine having the open communication with my Son’s being subverted by Bishops. That really seems to be such an unsafe practice. How can someone that doesn’t know your child have any place in the raising of your child?
When I had sex for the first time I told my mom about it and she refused to talk to me about it and told me I needed to go talk to the bishop and repent. I wish I had the relationship you had with your parents. Sadly that’s not the case for most Mormon families. I’ll definitely be a safe place to talk about that stuff with my future kids since I never had that myself
Because of your explanations John, this never-mo knows the terms and acronyms. You’re teaching every time ❤️ Another wonderful interview. Samantha was awesome ❤️
Such a great interview - I relate to so much of Chandler’s story! Trauma at BYU, guilt over sexuality, eating disorder, early return mission, and too many douchey Mormon guys to count. Thank you for sharing so bravely and articulately, Chandler!
Okay, this is so weird. I went to BYU-I at the same time and the guest looks exactly like a girl I had a conversation with there about this same thing, which was anxiety around trying to be perfect. I suggested she look up “His Grace is Sufficient” by Brad Wilcox and for some super weird reason, it’s the first suggested video for me right now on RUclips. Anyway, if you are that girl, I’m glad you made it out because I could tell that the church was toxic for you.
Consent and the church. Sex education is a real problem within the church. Many members are sheltered to begin with and then they go out into the world and situations arise where sexual predators take advantage. I feel the major reason why this occurs is that human sexuality is rarely mentioned in church. Aside from cases like the family proclamation or discussions of chastity, there is really no mention about sex. For John's idea of sexual consent to be openly discussed, members and leaders need the tools to do so, and be open to the subject. I raised this issue years back when we had an active young woman got pregnant. The father was a male a few years older. The ward and stake responded by telling her not to come to church. I proposed having a friend of mine who is a sex educator come and talk to the youth. The young women presidency thought it was a good idea. The leadership shot it down. They felt the parents would not go for it either.
I’m a never-mo who has been listening to Mormon stories for a decade now. Still totally captivated by these stories and the bravery shown by those who share them.
Chandler has it right. In Mormonism most guys see you as an appendage or/and an accessory ( the "trophy wife"). Looks matter more than character often. So sad! ( I did serve a foreign mission, & married After I left the church later in life. I have not regretted it!)
Dating at BYU. That culture described by Chandler is very true. Back in the 90s priesthood class at BYU always brought up eternal marriage. Whatever the topic in the priesthood manual, marriage was always raised each week. Bishops would tell RMs they should be married within one year of returning from the mission. The pressure was so great that bishops would tell men to make a list (just like a shopping list) of women in or out of stake who were single Then the guy was to date each woman down the list until they found someone to marry. Less women went on missions then, and so there were 19 year female students getting married. Many men would tell the woman after 2-3 dates that the spirit told them this was the girl to marry. The woman believed it since after all he was an RM. Men who hadn't served missions had few dates with anyone since RMs were highly prized commodities. Children came not long after marriage. There was a whole student ghetto off campus with young looking women pushing baby strollers. Some were students, but many had dropped out of BYU to take care of children..
Not here to talk anyone out of what they have chosen. No judgment from me. We all need to live our own lives. What frustrates me is that people comment, using an incredibly large brush. What Scott says here may have been his experience, but mine and the vast majority experienced nothing like him. Yet he describes his experience as though it is everyone’s. That it is somehow planned. List? Never heard of it., etc.
@@shanejensen8484 Yes bishops told men to "qualify" women using a list. I know one guy out with nearly 200 women before the claimed to have found "the one." However i knew some guys who met a woman within a few weeks of returning and that was it. Marriages worked out for many while others divorced. I even know a couple who met at BYU, engaged after two dates and were married 45 years. I think John brings a valid point that many people can marry too quickly and if there is sexual abuse trauma like this case that baggage comes into the marriage.
@@shanejensen8484 - you do the same thing you call Scott out on. You state that you never heard of a list, and then go on to say “the vast majority experienced nothing like [Scott].” How do you know that you aren’t the outlier here? My experience at BYU was like Scott’s. There was a prophet at that time who was admonishing young Mormon men to marry as soon as possible, and begin making families too (whether one could emotionally or financially afford to). Young men were being chastised for failing to follow this advice. So, I guess since both Scott and me have BYU experiences that align, we can discount your experience too?
I grew up in Utah, in a super orthodox family, and I was a pretty invested in church, but Rexburg culture blind-sided me. This is the first time I’ve heard anybody else really acknowledge the hyper-orthodoxy that is prevalent there. It’s super toxic.
Sam’s emotional intelligence is off the charts. Amazing insights. John, as always, was on point and helped bring out the important connections between cause and effect with Chandler’s story.
I totally relate to being LDS and dating someone who refuses the church. I absolutely loved this boy and it was an extreme struggle of fighting through my programming and my families opinions but it was the best decision I have ever made to choose true love rather than the 'one true church'.
I've always been overweight. In maybe my sophomore year at BYUi, I decided to try a 500 calorie a day diet, and it was torture! My self talk was so so distorted and unhealthy at that time, I remember telling myself that if I pushed through it, I would finally be good enough to be loved. I lost about 30 pounds in a month, and it made no difference. I didn't date at all in college, and it was really hurtful. Bigger girls just went unseen. I never felt good enough. Body positivy did not exist, and it was like, aggressively the opposite in the hyper church culture of BYUi.
This hurt me so much to read as someone who also had a food problems. Literally blew my mind when i learned literal 5 year olds should be eating at least 1200 calories, but every diet was telling me to eat half as much. Hope you're doing much better now 💕
At BYU-I, my lovely niece was told by her Bishop that she was too ugly to find a mate, but at least she should make more of an effort to attract someone. APPALLING! Who says that to another human being?! What organization thought it was a good idea to let this lame excuse for a leader hold the position of Bishop!?
@@maddexq9107 Omg! That's horrific behavior! Bishops should not be giving advice outside of their expertise. Although, that bishop sounds like an expert on being an ugly person, smh. No one is "too ugly" to find a partner. I can only imagine how that must have affected your niece. I hope she's doing well ❤️
I didn't date my freshman year at BYU. So OBVIOUSLY I was too fat. I weighed 120 in September; by the next September, I weighed 103. By the end of my sophomore year, I weighed 89 pounds. Dated all the time. I was a scholarship student so I studied and dated. Anxious? I would run the stairs at the stadium. It is a wonder that I just didn't drop dead. I was 16 during my freshman year so I was really young.
I was same way. I have 8 brothers, hated dresses ect. Also my brothers got to do fun stuff and I was stuck in doing laundry, iron, cleaning ect ect. I fought back I wasn't having it...
Another great episode. Thanks John, Samantha & especially Chandler. BYU I grad here, a lot of what was discussed resonated so much with my own experience. I love hitting on the importance of teenage dating too. So glad I always disregarded that advice as a teen growing up in the church.
Chandler, thank you so much for sharing your story. There were so many parts I related to completely. Especially the anxiety part, which I still have issues with 25 years after finishing my mission. I also went to BYU-I (it was Ricks when I went). You're helping a lot of people by sharing your story.
Chandler... I feel so much of your pain. Purity culture with clothes was always something I was hit or miss with. On the one hand it felt normal for me because my mom would do the arms up/bend over check to see if shirts still fit propperly and if I needed new clothes at a very young age. But then, after I had a kid... I was at home, in my garments (which never fit and are NOT designed for curvy women) and a super baggy nightgown. And I was already upset because we were broke and couldn't afford for me to go try a new style of garments in new fabric or a new cut. And my skin was crawling and I just couldn't. I was in tears. God's clothing shouldn't be so impossible to wear. And then my kid, at 3, toddles up to me and says "mommy, you should pull up your shirt." You could see my cleavage, there's no getting around it. I could wear a turtleneck and you could still see cleavage. But those words came of my baby's mouth. I was pissed. As a baby feminist I turned to them and said "you don't get to tell me how to wear my clothes. My body. My rules." And that set a precedent in our house that sticks around to this day.
I grew up in evangelical Christianity, but so much of this story is very familiar to me. The culture around purity and sex in the church (LDS and evangelical) is so damaging on so many levels. Huge hug, Chandler, and thank you for being so open. Hearing relatable stories is immensely helpful to myself and all the other women out there who have had similar experiences. We are truly not alone in these feelings, and by sharing openly, we can be a catalyst for change. Lots of love! 💛💛💛💛💛
Im not a Mormon, but a gril could be dressed in the baggiest, least flattering clothes in the world and boys will check them out, it's just the way it is.
Although I didn't grow up in the LDS church, your story is highly relatable to me. I'm ex Roman Catholic (my first doubt of the church was dinosaurs too!) and shame and anxiety about not being good or righteous enough was so deeply ingrained in me and something I still struggle with today. At my Catholic university, I was raped while sleeping in my bed, the guy pled guilty to it, and I was still considered a pariah and 100% to blame for it amongst my peers. I'm so sorry that you had to go through your own assault alone as well. Thank you for sharing your story and know you are an insightful, articulate woman and I'm wishing you all the best!
The issues of sexuality, growing up, puberty, religious belief, and requiring behaviors within the Religious community are all part of growing up, the faith of the individual and the peer pressure are real. The belief system and how these situations play out are truly individualistic. Most young people struggle with these issues, with or without the LDS influence. Everyone of us, makes mistakes,. As an individual you have to take responsibility, and move forward. It is not easy, growing up is hard.
Thank you so much for this interview. Inspiring and empowering to hear Chandler's story. It's eye-opening to hear about her experiences and perspective.
Wow, this brings back memories! Lots of sex happening at BYU-I when I was there, it's just not out in the open the way it is at a regular University, for obvious reasons. And half the sexual relationships end with someone having a mental health crisis and getting kicked out of school.
I’ll never forget the stress and fear I had my last semester there that someone would figure out my “sins” and that I didn’t believe anymore and tell the school on me. I’ve heard of people getting kicked out for not believing.
@@tedgarrison8842 That sucks, I'm so sorry. Were you able to transfer most of the credits? I heard it's hard transferring credits from there. It's really unfair how they do that since they allow never-mo's to attend. I've heard that those who stop believing are seen as "poisonous" to the minds of everyone there.
@@tedgarrison8842 honestly me too. The pressure of the Church kinda ruined my ability to be religious 😔 I don’t think I could go to another service without the PTSD from Mormonism
I want to teach through the screen and hug her! 😭 thank you for being so vulnerable and opening up to us. I was never part of the LDS church but I was raised COC so some things are similar.
Holy F*ck! Put oils on your body? Special, secret UNDERWEAR???? A new name???? The level of indoctrination and ritualistic mumbo jumbo astounds me. As a none, this stuff makes me uncomfortable and cringy.
Our youngest daughter had a very late birthday in the school year so we decided to go ahead and let hear attend her Jr. Prom even though she was not quite yet 16. The amount of hate we received back from our ward members really shocked me. This was my first ever "screw you" moment that I felt about the th Church.
Sex education and sexual assault at BYU. What Chandler is describing is felt by victims whether they are LDS or not. I have taught this subject in my law class. Society and the courts typically blame the woman for the assault. The the BYU case I am not sure Chandler would have been sent home. The more pressing issue is that college campuses in the US have honor codes. Students agree to these when they register. In order to avoid public scrutiny for assaults on campus, colleges try to mitigate the problem with tribunals conducted in house. This means the offender and victim are heard and the penalty (if any) is decided by the college panel. The real story here is that universities need to get rid of such tribunals and have the police involved immediately. In Chandler's case there are sexual assault and stalking laws that could have dealt with the matter a lot better. I can guarantee this guy probably went on to assault other women.
I mostly agree with this, since there is ample evidence that universities are more concerned about CYA than protecting victims. That said, I had a friend in college who was assaulted at a party, and the sheriff deputies really were more interested in closing the case by denying the strength of her testimony and (perhaps unintentionally) victim blaming. Note that my friend and I both worked for the university police at that time, so she felt comfortable going to them first and felt betrayed by their response. The incident did end up going to the university tribunal, and because the perpetrator had other claims against him before, he was expelled and had to move back to his home town from his frat house. Not the best resolution, but just wanted to highlight that sometimes universities can do what law enforcement either can’t or won’t to protect the student population.
Yes The Police should be involved immediatly. Whether from someone at church or school the police should be involved. Serious crimes demand serious legal help. A school tribunal will not stop the abuser.
There's a lot I relate to. Talking about interviews reminds me of when I was interviewed for a temple recommend and they read directly from the list just "are you sexually pure?... anything that you need to confess?" And that's as deep as it got. And I said no, cause I'm ace and the thought of doing stuff didn't totally exist for me and he looked confused for a second, like he didn't expect a no and it's always struck me as odd. I'm sure me saying no was as odd to him as the thought of doing anything was for me
It made me sad that Chandler felt the need to say that the Bishop who talked to her when she was a CHILD about sexual topics is a "good person." I understand she wants to be polite in case the man or his family see this video, but he IS NOT a good person if he is talking to a preteen in a very graphic manner about their sexual assault, blaming them, and not reporting it to the police. Not to mention asking "how good it felt" ??? Are you kidding me??? It's okay to say that you no longer respect people that you used to admire if you come to realize they were doing awful things. It's okay to speak badly of people who do bad things.
I wasn't raised Mormon, but I was raised VERY overtly Christian and I relate so much to Mormon culture and the stories shared on here. This episode hit really close to home.
I was a child during the 1960s and my parents could send us on our own to church (catholic ) - I was six and my sister was three and it was a very hot summer day so we had on sleeveless shirts with the matching cotton pedal pushers pants & we’re babies. We got singled out in church because they said my sisters top barely met the waist of the pants but they did because my parents would never send us out to church looking anything but presentable and again we were children and this was a hot summer. We got scolded in front of the whole congregation and needless to say we were crying so we went home and told our parents and my father had a fit and he ran up to the Monsignor & gave him an earful and asked how he thinks a three-year-old and a six-year-old could sexualize anyone and if that’s the case then there’s some sick thinking going on in the monsignors head, it really was a form of shaming the woman for a man’s impure thoughts. From that day forward my father refused to ever step foot in the Catholic Church again, although he still believes in God and had a personal relationship in his heart, we were never forced to go sit in a brick and mortar building. I did not realize how similar that story is true the stories I hear what is the Mormon religion for the job the family religion where it is the woman’s responsibility and job to make sure they’re not wearing some thing that would make men having pure so much. I tried to go back to church when I had my child and had him baptized Roman Catholic but he was then diagnosed with high functioning autism which later was diagnosed as Asperger syndrome but when he was six (2002) he had to get ready to attend classes so he can make his first holy communion the following year but due to his learning disability, I needed extra help for him and spoke with the church and they refused and the reason was that if he cannot understand it on his own then he was not ready to make it and would have to do it a few years later & would need to understand what it is that he’s told to believe in. My son with his condition has a photographic brain so he could’ve definitely memorized everything including the meaning of what he just read but he wouldn’t understand what it meant and I felt if you’re going to belong to church you’re in, you should really understand what it is that we are supposed to believe in. I was so angry because he had a right to make his first holy communion like everybody else but they would not give me the extra assistance he would need so that he understood what it was he had to recite so between that and then remembering what happened to us when my sis & I were little, I never stepped foot in the Catholic Church again nor did I raise my son in any form of structured religion except having a spiritual relationship with Jesus from his heart and to this day my son does have a personal relationship with Jesus but it comes from his heart and not a building or a man (our case it’s a priest), claiming to be the one that Jesus speaks to. Of course we all know what happened years later with the scandal of improper behavior of the Catholic Church priests. Did not realize that there are extremist in every religion, including Roman Catholics. I found your channel by accident and love it. Wishing you and your family a happy and healthy new year.
Man, that tie John makes between our innate sexuality and the subsequent reliance on the church for our worth and our forgiveness and salvation….hit hard.
I just want to point out the incredible dichotomy and tension in Chandler's story of the young women's activity where they're playing wedding dress up and being photographed in front of the temple picture... when they're 15 and not supposed to even be dating. They're not supposed to be exploring romantic relationships or their sexuality, AND they simultaneously are being specifically directed to think about their idealized marriage.
Listening to your experience at EFY makes me really appreciate the leaders I had in young women's. There were times I wore shorts too short for mormon standards to mutual, but my leaders just loved me instead of telling me I had to change my clothes. Eventually I realized that my shorts were shorter than the other girl's and made the change on my own - rather than making a change out of shame and fear from adult leaders. I was lucky!
Some people do get lucky - People at my church, the stake ward in Denver, were all pretty normal. No super hardcore Mormonism there, and I never felt weird being a half-black half Native-American Mormon, it just felt normal. There was also a girl my age who wore super super short shorts lol, way too short, especially when we went on a youth trip to the Rockies and they were sheer white when us young teens were walking down the middle of a river and we could all see her blue thong through the shorts. Kind of awkward at 13, but also turned all of us boys on at the same time haha ngl. None of our church leaders cared about the modesty stuff and not in a weird way. They just let people be who they are.
Freaking Patriarchal blessings! Every woman is always told she's going to bear children, plural. Mine did. I struggle with fertility, having kids is hard for me, but it's harder when it's pushed on you from such an early age (14).
As a woman, my patriarchal blessing said I would be successful in my career. Kinda suprising, but I haven't been super successful yet so I guess they were right about having to be righteous for it to happen lol
Mine said I would go on a mission with my husband in our elder years. Nope! Funny thing is I am currently in a relationship with a RM that is hot and cold with the church and it happened after I decided to stop going to church. So, joke’s on them, I guess.
My husband and i were engaged and we made out quite a bit and we had to confess to the bishop. Very embarrassing! It is a bit ridiculous. We have been married for 24 years and we have not been in the church for 14 years and happy with it. We are still good people but with less responsibility.
Mechelle Winslow That’s the thing you don’t need to belong to a religion to tell you right from wrong. I’m sure leaving Mormonism has probably strengthened your marriage more than it would’ve if you stayed in.
We lived across the street from the park in Rexburg for about a year and a half, when I was between the ages of 12-13, and it was a pretty regular thing to see college students making out under blankets there at the park during warmer weather. I wasn't there when it happened, but I was told a couple of my younger siblings yanked the blankets off of some couples and ran away, lol. 😂
I grew up Pentecostal, and my whole life was controlled by the church. I struggled with anorexic and bulimia from ages 12 to 25. The biggest factor was’t wanting to be “beautiful” but that I wanted to be able to control something. My eating and my grades was all I could control, so I did. I fought to be valedictorian and weighed 80-90lbs on average at 5ft 4in.
Chandler, I was intrigued by the reference to satans proximity in your pb. My former sp father spilled (in a very oblique way) that he knew what I had confessed to the bishop. I'm suggesting your patriarch may have had prior direction.
31:43 I'm going to have to partly disagree. As a kid it was drilled into my head to scrupulously monitor my thoughts in every situation. I felt tremendous guilt for even having any passing sexual thought and mentally tortured myself over it.
I'm very sorry that happened to you. This was something my dad drilled into us. Every thought, no matter what, was being monitored by god and we would have to repent or answer for them. He made sure we knew that when the "movie" of our life was being played at the judgement day, that everyone there would hear and see our every single thought and action, no matter what. I asked him why we would even want to do that, how boring and mundane it would be. He said it was practice for godhood. Thankfully this is complete bunk. I hope you have healed or are healing from that trauma.
@@jw8631 “With every decision you make or thought you have, make sure you’d do it if Jesus were standing right there. Make sure you’d do it if I [my father] were standing there. If not, then it’s wrong.” (I didn’t grow up LDS, but parts of evangelical Christianity has some cross-over).
The one girl I knew who was LDS growing up (I was Catholic) left the Mormon church at 18 years old SOLELY based on her interactions with bishops (sometimes panels) regarding sexual experiences and explanations. The questions that were asked of her were totally inappropriate. These men sounded a bit prevented to me. Of course we had to admit things in confession but NOTHING like what this Mormon CHILD was required to talk about.
My sister’s high school boyfriend was/is Mormon. He & my sister had a lot of sex in high school, which resulted in a teenage pregnancy for my sister. The purity culture does not stop the hormones. The hormones will have their say & often in really unhealthy ways if all you are taught is to repress them. This guy went on to do his mission & is still a practicing Mormon. I have no idea if his wife even knows he has a child from when he was 16.
So not surprised to read your story. I got pregnant out of wedlock by a Mormon guy and he paid me a bunch of money to go raise our son and terminate his paternal rights. The latter isn't legal in our case but he has chosen to never even meet our son and go on his merry way in Highland, UT. My son is better off but it still burns me that he gets to maintain his Mormon front (temple marriage with 2 women) and ignore his son.
@@jasminescameraroll - & a really appalling & patriarchal part of all this is that men can be sealed in the temple multiple times w/ different wives, but even if a woman has the same reasons for marrying again such as a spouse dying or divorce, she can’t be sealed again in the temple.
John - Love that you chose such dynamic, skilled, compassionate, & intelligent women as your co-hosts. Margie & Sam are amazing & such excellent & natural collaborators. I’ve never seen you try to make yourself more important than your co-hosts & guests or to be controlling in any manner. I love your style, intelligence, calming manner, & how you always provide validation, honesty, genuine, compassion, & support for all of your guests, & especially how you empower all of them.
I went to BYU Idaho. It was pretty funny. Around 1994 or so. At the time I was shaving my head. Eventually I got called in to student life about it. The guy said I wasn’t allowed to do that. I told him I had some skin issues and he sent me to the dr, I went to the dr and he was like, what the…there’s nothing wrong with your skin! So I went back and he said “grow it out or I’ll see you back here for another conversation that won’t be pleasant”. The funny thing about BYU I is, everyone is sort of bought in to these ridiculous standards. The DR. Your classmates, roommates, testing center workers, there’s always a rat lurking somewhere. Minding your business was not a thing there. If you tended to stay out late often, or be alone with a girl often, you’re going to get called in eventually. It was inevitable.
The "modesty checks" by checking to see if your clothing covered even if your arms were raised I got embarassed a lot as a kid because I was poor and wore clothes that didn't fit.
This episode was super good, for me, for many reasons. I like this Chandler, I don't know the past Chandler, but this Chandler is so confident, assertive, smart, funny, it's hard to imagine she was ever anything else. As an ex-mormon male living in SLC, mormon men (especially in Utah) are super toxic. I was in the single mormon scene from 2014 to 2017, and I would hear men in the cultural hall talk about how if a woman doesn't make 70k+, went to a super good school, and if she doesn't look the part, they will not take her serious. That was quite sad and shocking to hear men talk about, no wonder mormon women here are super picky, because they have bad experiences with mormon men here. Also, the fact that she got called to serve early is weird, because I got called super early to serve too. I had to drop out of Highschool because my stake president felt prompted to tell me to drop out of school and serve a mission, horse radish I tell ya. Great episode, can't wait to hear more.
This one made me cry. I’m so sorry for what you went through, Chandler. I think you are amazing. Sending hugs!! So sorry the church put you in this position!
I was in the Christian church and my experience was difference, but I related to a lot of what you said. And purity culture and some of the church beliefs led to abuse for me. You are figuring it out a lot earlier than me. Hugs again
Around 1:52 My response is - Ahh, everyone is not smarter than you, Chandler! You deserve to assert your wisdom and intelligence onto people as you have here! It's a blessing to learn from others like yourself!
I was given a bizarrely amazing patriarchal blessing. I was 14. I’m now 70. A great life. Also- Lived most my life in bars as a full time rock singer and guitarist. I played 6 nighters, 5 hours a night. Loved it. I still gig. I never broke the Word of Wisdom. Ever. Not once. When someone wanted to buy me a drink, the band guys would say - NOOOO. She’s wild enough!! If she drank, she’d fly into outer space!! It was our big joke. I lost loved ones to lung cancer from smoking. Lost friends in head-on dui crashes- so, I had zero interest in coffee, tobacco, alcohol, drugs. Whatever. My nose is really hypersensitive and I have life-threatening allergies to lots of things others can smoke, drink, eat. Just lucky. 😁
It isn't only Mormons who have this view and approach to children, teens and sexuality. Other conservative Christian religions tend this way and it's a generally old fashioned idea that was present in my atheist upbringing. It's great that you are having this conversation.
I’m Catholic, and don’t get me wrong, the Catholic Church can be pretty prudish about sex and sexual health etc. But we are not essentially trained to be like the KGB/Communist regime where you’re supposed to snitch on people who break the rules. It’s sounds like in more traditionalist LDS communities/families, you’re supposed to hold each other accountable for breaking church rules. And you have to remember, brow-beating people that anything sexual (masturbation included) for YEARS is the most extremely serious crime in the church, that is going to give people serious psychological problems around sex and anything related to it. Not to mention having to go into very inappropriate details with the bishop about it. Other churches don’t have people going into specific details about the sexual encounter. I have been to confession and I never ever confessed to sexual things. Because I am not comfortable disclosing that and sexual things are not bad. I refuse to treat it like a sin.
Great episode. Thank you Chandler for telling your story. It's amazing how actually strong you were the whole time you were abused, confused and especially misled. Bright future to you!!!
This was so mind blowing for me, now understanding why I always felt like everyone knew more than me 🤯 I always felt so limited in my understanding and never understood why until this episode. Also her story is very relatable as a mormon young woman, including the sexual assault from garment wearing, return missionary men. I'm realizing A LOT right now.
It is SO difficult to be a young female in the “church”/cult. Her self-esteem is low because worth is superficial, based upon appearance. Her value depends on an upbeat disposition and demeanor; it must always be positive, outgoing and righteously motivated. Period.
Extremely relatable to me. Coming from a man who grew up Mormon, "struggled" with being bisexual, developed sexual addiction from never being taught any healthy alternatives. I wanted to be good and do the right thing, I wanted my parents to be proud of me, and I tried so hard, then I would always slip up worse than the last time. Being a Mormon with a sexual addiction is like living a double life. I was so focused on trying to be a good Mormon, but at the same time I couldn't help myself. And instead of being in normal relationships where I could experiment in a healthy way, instead I was continually going on the internet and finding people to sext with or meet up with. People way older than me that took advantage of me. Did things to me I wasn't ready for. At the time I thought that's what I wanted. I kept that side of me secret because I was terrified of the consequences. I didn't want to get excommunicated. It wasn't till half way through my mission I confessed. Not because I felt bad, but because I met someone online (I was on an iPad mission) who helped me realize I dont belive and never really did. I just wanted my parents to be proud and happy. And so i came home and never came back to church again.
I’ll tell you a few about BYUI. While I was just recently a student there, it was known that men could get kicked out of the university if they were unshaven on campus! I heard multiple times of students having been kicked out of class by teachers for having a shadow! From some close guy friends, I also heard that if you can’t shave for medical reasons, you could get an excuse card but only if you shaved in front of medical personnel to prove you had a problem. If you qualified, before giving you the card they’d first make you watch a guilt video explaining why you’d still be sinning….🙄🤢 Completely messed up. As for me, one fun story I have came from this class with a teacher who, upon her imaginary pulpit, loved to constantly guilt us. One time before a test, she gave a lengthy discussion explaining that if we cheated we’d then be sinning and therefore would not be worthy of our temple recommend which then meant we weren’t worthy for the celestial kingdom Oh, and I also lost my campus job over having multiple ear piercings (It was a grounds crew job of all things). This happened just barely before they were allowed
I also attended EFY multiple times in Tacoma back between 2007 and 2011. EFY happened to be the same week as a cheerleading camp on the same campus. This meant that we shared spaces during EFY with the cheerleaders who were often wearing immodest clothing. I cringe to no end remembering the times the EFY boys would shout "modest is hottest" to the young women just there for a cheer camp. oof
The Mormon women you have on this podcast ARE very good looking!!! I’m always amazed that every one - starting with Margi- are just beautiful, with sweet voices. We Catholic girls were way less attractive! haha. But we weren’t necessarily expected to get married- they mostly wanted us to be nuns. But I DO relate to so many of their feelings- shame, “less than”, anxiety, inferiority…but I personally suffered with an eating disorder. I think that’s a woman thing though.
My patriarchal blessing was also short and generic, I was so disappointed and blamed myself. I thought I wasn't worthy enough and messed up my chance to receive direct instructions from god. It caused me so much stress and made me feel like a complete fraud. I thought I was eternally damning my soul with every step of the way as I prepared for a mission.
I'm a current student at BYU Idaho. I had a roommate do something next to me in the living room while having a sleepover and it was with a boy. I had a crisis appointment at the counseling center and then the counselor had me talk to Title 9 the law office and the lawyer walked me to Honor Code office. They lied to me that nothing was going to be reported and it was. All of my roommates had to talk to Honor Code and my roommate who did that next to me was blaming me for everything. I became so suicidal. I have never been so suicidal in my life. I have to go back on January 4th and I do not want to. I wish my parents would listen to me. I wish I were financially stable so I could be independent from my parents and choose a better college. Hoping it goes better next semester.
This discussion of dinosaurs reminds me of a conversation I had with a BYU geology professor. I asked him how he got around the whole issue of evolutionary theory. I asked how he discussed it in class. He said he had to discuss it very carefully.
Hearing Chandler's heartbreak over the solid, non-mormon guy breaks my heart. I didn't know this was a common phenomena in Mormonism and Sam's comment of how the church caused her do "self-betrayal" essentially by leaving a guy she intuitively thought was good for her, (just not mormon.) And I just wanted to hug her when she opened up about her r*pe story... So terrible to hear how these bad things happen to good people who are then blamed for it. My heart really goes out to her.
This has been really nice to listen too. I’ve had a lot of similar traumas from the church (my sister is currently going through it with our family) it’s been helping me so much to know I’m not alone in who the church has hurt. I’m sorry all that happened to you.
1:22:00
I am in tears. I am currently a student at BYUI and this EXACT situation happened to me. He is outwardly such an "ideal mormon guy who can do no wrong", and my bishop (who is also his bishop) absolutely LOVES him. He r*ped me and I was way too terrified that my bishop wouldn't believe me if I told him that I just went along in my semester and never reported it. This happened this past summer. I carry that pain with my every day. My freaking accounting tutor even sexually assaulted me when we were hanging out after tutoring.
OH and the best part: I have talked to so SO many girls with similar experiences at Byui. none of them report it in fear of THEM getting kicked out because "the boy was in their room and that's against the rules so it would also be their fault". breaks my heart.
I hope u find the courage to be able to leave that toxic environment. It doesn’t matter if the bishop believes u, because our Heavenly Father is is all knowing, and righteous god. He knows the truth, and will cast judgment those who have wronged u.
This broke me to read :( I hope there's justice in the future, you and the other women DESERVE it and are worthy of it 💜💜💜
Sending love and support
I think its important for you and anyone else going through something like this to know that, though it used to be the Honor Code's policy to punish students for breaking minor rules when reporting sexual assault, that is no longer the case. They will NOT punish you for anything, including drinking, being out late, etc. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not being honest with you.
That’s so heartbreaking, I’m so sorry.
I really appreciate the host of this show. I love how after people share really traumatic things he takes a beat to walk through their experience from an objective and rational perspective and really getting into the nuance of HOW and WHY what the church did to them wrong and then goes on to ask them how it made them feel and then validates those feelings. Idk if he's a therapist or just someone with a really high EQ (emotional intelligence), but I find listening to these podcasts very introspective and healing.
I'm not mormon, not even an English-speaker and I've binge-watched hundreds of episodes already. He is really good at it, and some of the guests are incredibly interesting and eloquent too.
He may be good but he has his own accusations against him for sexual misconduct!
Dr. John Delin has a PhD in clinical and counseling psychology.
...and, critically to the sentiment of the journey, is a great listener, feeler, reflector in what have to be monumentus moments in the lives of the faithful. Simply and only making thay distinction of "quality of listener" ❤ over "quantity of achievements" @@lizzybeary
you are so GORGEOUS
As a current BYU I student I can totally tell how fake, judgmental, and ignorant a lot of people are here.
Another advice for anyone who wants to go to BYUI. Never ever confess anything to any bishop or leader. Look for help from other sources or people. Or keep everything between just you and God only.
Amen.
Good advice! I wish I’d stuck to that when I was there
Very good advice. If you need help you need to go see professionals. Not a random old man who uses a Mandela of gods authority to tell people what to do, for as well intentioned as any bishops may be. They are not counselors, therapists, or professionals in any area where they pretend to be. It’s so fucked up that the church acts like the god gives them special powers of unearned skill in these areas. It’s evil and harmful.
100%
I once told a church leader I attended a Shabat meal with Jewish college students. and was involved in Holocaust remembrance week. He freaked out and wanted to take away my recommend.
It is not the young women's responsibility to save the Young men's thoughts and behaviors. We are responsible for our own thoughts and behaviors. We can only ask for forgiveness for our self.
Sam should become a therapist! She is so insightful. I think this story is a good example of why places like BYU are not safer. Rather than teaching people to act like adults and take responsibility for their behavior, BYU makes arbitrary rules like, “Don’t be alone with a boy.” And then when you inevitably break that rule, you’re told it’s your fault for being assaulted.
Also, I don’t think frat houses are healthy either, or the only alternative to BYU. Most college experiences fall in between. I think it’s a common misconception of Utah Mormons that if you aren’t in the church, the only other lifestyle is complete debauchery
I feel so so sorry for Chandler. She often laughs-off these horribly traumatic experiences as she recalls them. There is so much healing that still needs to happen for her and I hope she can someday find peace. She deserves peace & healing. And I am so proud of her for speaking out.
As a non-Mormon watching these videos for the past month has been so disturbing to me. As a mom to be so oblivious to your child coming home from school whether it be junior high /high school and not noticing the stress and anxiety and therefore not protecting your child is just absurd! Shame on these parents for being so out of touch. And for these young adults in most of these videos who are listening to their gut - and being able to question the religion/cult is so amazing and honorable. They are literally saving themselves from something they were put into by their families. I thank you for these podcasts and the work you are doing to give these people a form- I think it’s really healing❤
We have to remember many of the parents were raised or indoctrinated to this being RIGHTEOUS. It is tragic this culture and control is passed down generation to generation.
I feel blessed. Lucky. Whatever you want to call it. I went against the grain and married someone outside of my religion. Also outside of my race and culture. That guy. Is my best friend. Early in our marriage, I was getting ready for a date with my husband after our first child. I was so excited to do something, anything but baby care, and to do it with my husband. We were going to a movie that serves dinner. He walked in on my doing the clothing test to myself in the mirror. I changed clothes several times. My body was different after giving birth and nothing looked or felt right. I finally settled on my outfit and we were getting ready to go when we walked outside and it’s the middle of June and I am in a long sleeved sweater. He asks me if I want a chance to change now that we both realize how it is. I grabbed a jacket! Thinking I needed more coverage. We had a fairly long conversation and it was really uncomfortable for me. He told me, regardless of how many layers or how covered my body was. It didn’t stop a man from “using his imagination”. That it didn’t have to be, solely men. Any person on this planet could use their imagination to think and fantasize about me naked. Regardless of what I wore. How I stood or walked and sat down or bent over. The realization hit me pretty hard that no matter what I did. I could never stop the imagination. So why have a heat stroke in June attempting to be overly modest on a date with my husband ((and we have just had a kid……so obviously we “did it”)). It made me realize that regardless of how much I tried to be invisible, I was no match for imagination. I felt free in that moment because there was never any way to be pious enough to keep the whole earth from using their mind. What those people may or may not have thought about me. Was their problem, not mine, or at least not any longer.
my wife was in the same situation with the middle school boyfriend thing. all her bishop said to her parents was that she just got a little scared. i guess being raped in Preston Idaho is just being a little scared. that young man was sent on a mission regardless.
I was nothing short of horrified after hearing about her experiences and especially after hearing about how often r*pes are reported (and I used to believe in the "false r*pe accusation" fear mongering when I almost fell into the manosphere rabbit hole back in college) but as usual I found some parallels to my experience as an ex-Catholic.
I also very much loved and was loyal to the Church I was raised for years (I considered going to the the Catholic version of Bible colleges as I thought more mainstream ones like Notre Dame were too liberal) and in one of the cultier groups I was part of used new names as well (supposedly it was for security reasons and keep our identities hidden) so as a result I followed a high demand version of it, I also felt endless shame regarding my sexuality and confessed it to a guy in robes quite often so I sometimes wonder if anyone would want to date someone possibly broken like me now that I'm in my late 20's. Even then I feel like one of the luckier former believers as my straight, cis and male privilege within the Church is probably one of the things that made me stay longer than I should have.
I wish nothing but the best for Chandler and thank you for allowing her to tell her story.
John, I love these interviews with a female cohost. You are modeling appropriate behavior for the patriarchy, AND empowering young women. Double good!!! I love you, Carah, Samantha and for the work you do.
It's because their friends
I agree with peanut butter about women cohosts
Appropriate behavior haha
@@360playz7 it's because they're both brilliant, talented, and good at what they do. Stop pretending otherwise.
@@360playz7 - Why do you feel the need to minimize Sam’s equal role in co-hosting? Why do you feel it’s acceptable for you to make John into some misogynistic male w/ no ability or desire to equalize a woman’s skills & role in contributing separate from their friendship? Why can’t choosing Sam to co-host be primarily because she balanced what he brought w/ his own skills & gifts?
That comment was seriously inappropriate. Do better please.
I went to school with both Sam and Chandler at BYUI. I was truly an invisible nobody, so I know they have no idea who I am, but I remember them from that time, and I am so so so happy that they are now out and away from the church and helping support others with such strength and wisdom!
💜💜💜💜💜
you are not an invisible nobody :) you are seen and heard :)
Saddens me you feel that way. You are NEVER invisible anywhere you belong and are worthy to be in any room or place. You ARE somebody.
Graduated from BYU-I back in 2013 with History and Political science degree. Generally loved my teachers, but the place was psychotic. Perhaps ironically, the experience was the final catalyst that was my exit from the LDS Church a few years later.
I feel like I hear a LOT of stories of BYU-I being the beginning of the end.
As a never Mormon, the idea of going to a Bishop rather than your parent seems like breaking the parent-child relationship. My parents were my “go to” people for dealing with middle school and high school relationships and sexual matters. My parents wouldn’t have allowed the Church to interfere with the parent-child bond! Now as a parent with adult children, I can’t imagine having the open communication with my Son’s being subverted by Bishops. That really seems to be such an unsafe practice. How can someone that doesn’t know your child have any place in the raising of your child?
When I had sex for the first time I told my mom about it and she refused to talk to me about it and told me I needed to go talk to the bishop and repent. I wish I had the relationship you had with your parents. Sadly that’s not the case for most Mormon families. I’ll definitely be a safe place to talk about that stuff with my future kids since I never had that myself
LOVE YOUR COMMENT INTRO
Because of your explanations John, this never-mo knows the terms and acronyms. You’re teaching every time ❤️ Another wonderful interview. Samantha was awesome ❤️
Such a great interview - I relate to so much of Chandler’s story! Trauma at BYU, guilt over sexuality, eating disorder, early return mission, and too many douchey Mormon guys to count. Thank you for sharing so bravely and articulately, Chandler!
Okay, this is so weird. I went to BYU-I at the same time and the guest looks exactly like a girl I had a conversation with there about this same thing, which was anxiety around trying to be perfect. I suggested she look up “His Grace is Sufficient” by Brad Wilcox and for some super weird reason, it’s the first suggested video for me right now on RUclips. Anyway, if you are that girl, I’m glad you made it out because I could tell that the church was toxic for you.
It's toxic for a lot more people than just Chandler.
Consent and the church. Sex education is a real problem within the church. Many members are sheltered to begin with and then they go out into the world and situations arise where sexual predators take advantage. I feel the major reason why this occurs is that human sexuality is rarely mentioned in church. Aside from cases like the family proclamation or discussions of chastity, there is really no mention about sex. For John's idea of sexual consent to be openly discussed, members and leaders need the tools to do so, and be open to the subject. I raised this issue years back when we had an active young woman got pregnant. The father was a male a few years older. The ward and stake responded by telling her not to come to church. I proposed having a friend of mine who is a sex educator come and talk to the youth. The young women presidency thought it was a good idea. The leadership shot it down. They felt the parents would not go for it either.
I’m a never-mo who has been listening to Mormon stories for a decade now. Still totally captivated by these stories and the bravery shown by those who share them.
Chandler has it right. In Mormonism most guys see you as an appendage or/and an accessory ( the "trophy wife"). Looks matter more than character often. So sad! ( I did serve a foreign mission, & married After I left the church later in life. I have not regretted it!)
Let the record show that I regret this lipstick
🤣🤣
But I love it!
Love it!
No way! Because I want to know the shade. It’s stunning
You did a great job! Seriously, well done.
Dating at BYU. That culture described by Chandler is very true. Back in the 90s priesthood class at BYU always brought up eternal marriage. Whatever the topic in the priesthood manual, marriage was always raised each week. Bishops would tell RMs they should be married within one year of returning from the mission. The pressure was so great that bishops would tell men to make a list (just like a shopping list) of women in or out of stake who were single Then the guy was to date each woman down the list until they found someone to marry. Less women went on missions then, and so there were 19 year female students getting married. Many men would tell the woman after 2-3 dates that the spirit told them this was the girl to marry. The woman believed it since after all he was an RM. Men who hadn't served missions had few dates with anyone since RMs were highly prized commodities. Children came not long after marriage. There was a whole student ghetto off campus with young looking women pushing baby strollers. Some were students, but many had dropped out of BYU to take care of children..
Not here to talk anyone out of what they have chosen. No judgment from me. We all need to live our own lives. What frustrates me is that people comment, using an incredibly large brush. What Scott says here may have been his experience, but mine and the vast majority experienced nothing like him. Yet he describes his experience as though it is everyone’s. That it is somehow planned. List? Never heard of it., etc.
Sad!! Just sad!
@@shanejensen8484 Yes bishops told men to "qualify" women using a list. I know one guy out with nearly 200 women before the claimed to have found "the one." However i knew some guys who met a woman within a few weeks of returning and that was it. Marriages worked out for many while others divorced. I even know a couple who met at BYU, engaged after two dates and were married 45 years. I think John brings a valid point that many people can marry too quickly and if there is sexual abuse trauma like this case that baggage comes into the marriage.
@@shanejensen8484 - you do the same thing you call Scott out on. You state that you never heard of a list, and then go on to say “the vast majority experienced nothing like [Scott].” How do you know that you aren’t the outlier here?
My experience at BYU was like Scott’s. There was a prophet at that time who was admonishing young Mormon men to marry as soon as possible, and begin making families too (whether one could emotionally or financially afford to). Young men were being chastised for failing to follow this advice.
So, I guess since both Scott and me have BYU experiences that align, we can discount your experience too?
The stuff that these “leaders” do to these kids at EFY is disgusting.
Gosh 15 minutes in and my heart is hurting and this is a story that is systemic and happening a million times over all across the church.
I grew up in Utah, in a super orthodox family, and I was a pretty invested in church, but Rexburg culture blind-sided me. This is the first time I’ve heard anybody else really acknowledge the hyper-orthodoxy that is prevalent there. It’s super toxic.
Sam’s emotional intelligence is off the charts. Amazing insights. John, as always, was on point and helped bring out the important connections between cause and effect with Chandler’s story.
I totally relate to being LDS and dating someone who refuses the church. I absolutely loved this boy and it was an extreme struggle of fighting through my programming and my families opinions but it was the best decision I have ever made to choose true love rather than the 'one true church'.
Wow... I don't think I've EVER watched a two and a half hour long video but this had me hooked. My heart goes out to you and I look forward to part 2!
I've always been overweight. In maybe my sophomore year at BYUi, I decided to try a 500 calorie a day diet, and it was torture! My self talk was so so distorted and unhealthy at that time, I remember telling myself that if I pushed through it, I would finally be good enough to be loved. I lost about 30 pounds in a month, and it made no difference. I didn't date at all in college, and it was really hurtful. Bigger girls just went unseen. I never felt good enough. Body positivy did not exist, and it was like, aggressively the opposite in the hyper church culture of BYUi.
This hurt me so much to read as someone who also had a food problems. Literally blew my mind when i learned literal 5 year olds should be eating at least 1200 calories, but every diet was telling me to eat half as much. Hope you're doing much better now 💕
At BYU-I, my lovely niece was told by her Bishop that she was too ugly to find a mate, but at least she should make more of an effort to attract someone. APPALLING! Who says that to another human being?! What organization thought it was a good idea to let this lame excuse for a leader hold the position of Bishop!?
@@maddexq9107 Omg! That's horrific behavior! Bishops should not be giving advice outside of their expertise. Although, that bishop sounds like an expert on being an ugly person, smh. No one is "too ugly" to find a partner. I can only imagine how that must have affected your niece. I hope she's doing well ❤️
I didn't date my freshman year at BYU. So OBVIOUSLY I was too fat. I weighed 120 in September; by the next September, I weighed 103. By the end of my sophomore year, I weighed 89 pounds. Dated all the time. I was a scholarship student so I studied and dated. Anxious? I would run the stairs at the stadium. It is a wonder that I just didn't drop dead.
I was 16 during my freshman year so I was really young.
I was same way. I have 8 brothers, hated dresses ect. Also my brothers got to do fun stuff and I was stuck in doing laundry, iron, cleaning ect ect. I fought back I wasn't having it...
Another great episode. Thanks John, Samantha & especially Chandler. BYU I grad here, a lot of what was discussed resonated so much with my own experience. I love hitting on the importance of teenage dating too. So glad I always disregarded that advice as a teen growing up in the church.
Chandler, thank you so much for sharing your story. There were so many parts I related to completely. Especially the anxiety part, which I still have issues with 25 years after finishing my mission. I also went to BYU-I (it was Ricks when I went). You're helping a lot of people by sharing your story.
Chandler... I feel so much of your pain.
Purity culture with clothes was always something I was hit or miss with. On the one hand it felt normal for me because my mom would do the arms up/bend over check to see if shirts still fit propperly and if I needed new clothes at a very young age. But then, after I had a kid... I was at home, in my garments (which never fit and are NOT designed for curvy women) and a super baggy nightgown. And I was already upset because we were broke and couldn't afford for me to go try a new style of garments in new fabric or a new cut. And my skin was crawling and I just couldn't. I was in tears. God's clothing shouldn't be so impossible to wear. And then my kid, at 3, toddles up to me and says "mommy, you should pull up your shirt." You could see my cleavage, there's no getting around it. I could wear a turtleneck and you could still see cleavage. But those words came of my baby's mouth. I was pissed. As a baby feminist I turned to them and said "you don't get to tell me how to wear my clothes. My body. My rules." And that set a precedent in our house that sticks around to this day.
Sorry for what happened to you Chandler.
Thank you for a great interview! I hope Sam gets to cohost more interviews. She is amazing!
Yes replace John!
John maybe a great interviewer but he has his own accusations against him for sexual misconduct!
I grew up in evangelical Christianity, but so much of this story is very familiar to me. The culture around purity and sex in the church (LDS and evangelical) is so damaging on so many levels. Huge hug, Chandler, and thank you for being so open. Hearing relatable stories is immensely helpful to myself and all the other women out there who have had similar experiences. We are truly not alone in these feelings, and by sharing openly, we can be a catalyst for change.
Lots of love! 💛💛💛💛💛
Im not a Mormon, but a gril could be dressed in the baggiest, least flattering clothes in the world and boys will check them out, it's just the way it is.
Although I didn't grow up in the LDS church, your story is highly relatable to me. I'm ex Roman Catholic (my first doubt of the church was dinosaurs too!) and shame and anxiety about not being good or righteous enough was so deeply ingrained in me and something I still struggle with today. At my Catholic university, I was raped while sleeping in my bed, the guy pled guilty to it, and I was still considered a pariah and 100% to blame for it amongst my peers. I'm so sorry that you had to go through your own assault alone as well. Thank you for sharing your story and know you are an insightful, articulate woman and I'm wishing you all the best!
I'm so sorry that happened to you
Same here- survived Catholic residential school!
The issues of sexuality, growing up, puberty, religious belief, and requiring behaviors within the Religious community are all part of growing up, the faith of the individual and the peer pressure are real. The belief system and how these situations play out are truly individualistic. Most young people struggle with these issues, with or without the LDS influence. Everyone of us, makes mistakes,. As an individual you have to take responsibility, and move forward. It is not easy, growing up is hard.
Thank you so much for this interview. Inspiring and empowering to hear Chandler's story. It's eye-opening to hear about her experiences and perspective.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I hope it helps others realize what purity culture does to people.
Wow, this brings back memories! Lots of sex happening at BYU-I when I was there, it's just not out in the open the way it is at a regular University, for obvious reasons. And half the sexual relationships end with someone having a mental health crisis and getting kicked out of school.
"someone getting kicked out" = the woman in most situations
Wow! Chandler was a phenomenal guest! I've never been Mormon but I relate to her story in a lot of ways
I’ll never forget the stress and fear I had my last semester there that someone would figure out my “sins” and that I didn’t believe anymore and tell the school on me. I’ve heard of people getting kicked out for not believing.
@@tedgarrison8842 That sucks, I'm so sorry. Were you able to transfer most of the credits? I heard it's hard transferring credits from there. It's really unfair how they do that since they allow never-mo's to attend. I've heard that those who stop believing are seen as "poisonous" to the minds of everyone there.
@@tedgarrison8842 honestly me too. The pressure of the Church kinda ruined my ability to be religious 😔 I don’t think I could go to another service without the PTSD from Mormonism
This woman has been abused by this “religion.”
I want to teach through the screen and hug her! 😭 thank you for being so vulnerable and opening up to us. I was never part of the LDS church but I was raised COC so some things are similar.
COC???
@@ivinskiwi384 Community of Christ, formerly known as Reorganized LDS
@@Ilgenfixit80 Thank you (pet peeve: when people use abbreviations without first saying what they stand for 🥴 ).-
YAY! You should have Sam on more. Also talk about her music because it is genuinely great!
Yes she’s a brilliant cohost!!!
Holy F*ck! Put oils on your body? Special, secret UNDERWEAR???? A new name???? The level of
indoctrination and ritualistic mumbo jumbo astounds me. As a none, this stuff makes me uncomfortable and cringy.
Our youngest daughter had a very late birthday in the school year so we decided to go ahead and let hear attend her Jr. Prom even though she was not quite yet 16. The amount of hate we received back from our ward members really shocked me. This was my first ever "screw you" moment that I felt about the th Church.
Sex education and sexual assault at BYU. What Chandler is describing is felt by victims whether they are LDS or not. I have taught this subject in my law class. Society and the courts typically blame the woman for the assault. The the BYU case I am not sure Chandler would have been sent home. The more pressing issue is that college campuses in the US have honor codes. Students agree to these when they register. In order to avoid public scrutiny for assaults on campus, colleges try to mitigate the problem with tribunals conducted in house. This means the offender and victim are heard and the penalty (if any) is decided by the college panel. The real story here is that universities need to get rid of such tribunals and have the police involved immediately. In Chandler's case there are sexual assault and stalking laws that could have dealt with the matter a lot better. I can guarantee this guy probably went on to assault other women.
What would be issues calling police resolve attack.
I mostly agree with this, since there is ample evidence that universities are more concerned about CYA than protecting victims. That said, I had a friend in college who was assaulted at a party, and the sheriff deputies really were more interested in closing the case by denying the strength of her testimony and (perhaps unintentionally) victim blaming. Note that my friend and I both worked for the university police at that time, so she felt comfortable going to them first and felt betrayed by their response. The incident did end up going to the university tribunal, and because the perpetrator had other claims against him before, he was expelled and had to move back to his home town from his frat house. Not the best resolution, but just wanted to highlight that sometimes universities can do what law enforcement either can’t or won’t to protect the student population.
Yes The Police should be involved immediatly. Whether from someone at church or school the police should be involved. Serious crimes demand serious legal help. A school tribunal will not stop the abuser.
There's a lot I relate to. Talking about interviews reminds me of when I was interviewed for a temple recommend and they read directly from the list just "are you sexually pure?... anything that you need to confess?" And that's as deep as it got. And I said no, cause I'm ace and the thought of doing stuff didn't totally exist for me and he looked confused for a second, like he didn't expect a no and it's always struck me as odd. I'm sure me saying no was as odd to him as the thought of doing anything was for me
It made me sad that Chandler felt the need to say that the Bishop who talked to her when she was a CHILD about sexual topics is a "good person." I understand she wants to be polite in case the man or his family see this video, but he IS NOT a good person if he is talking to a preteen in a very graphic manner about their sexual assault, blaming them, and not reporting it to the police. Not to mention asking "how good it felt" ??? Are you kidding me??? It's okay to say that you no longer respect people that you used to admire if you come to realize they were doing awful things. It's okay to speak badly of people who do bad things.
I wasn't raised Mormon, but I was raised VERY overtly Christian and I relate so much to Mormon culture and the stories shared on here. This episode hit really close to home.
I was a child during the 1960s and my parents could send us on our own to church (catholic ) - I was six and my sister was three and it was a very hot summer day so we had on sleeveless shirts with the matching cotton pedal pushers pants & we’re babies. We got singled out in church because they said my sisters top barely met the waist of the pants but they did because my parents would never send us out to church looking anything but presentable and again we were children and this was a hot summer. We got scolded in front of the whole congregation and needless to say we were crying so we went home and told our parents and my father had a fit and he ran up to the Monsignor & gave him an earful and asked how he thinks a three-year-old and a six-year-old could sexualize anyone and if that’s the case then there’s some sick thinking going on in the monsignors head, it really was a form of shaming the woman for a man’s impure thoughts. From that day forward my father refused to ever step foot in the Catholic Church again, although he still believes in God and had a personal relationship in his heart, we were never forced to go sit in a brick and mortar building. I did not realize how similar that story is true the stories I hear what is the Mormon religion for the job the family religion where it is the woman’s responsibility and job to make sure they’re not wearing some thing that would make men having pure so much. I tried to go back to church when I had my child and had him baptized Roman Catholic but he was then diagnosed with high functioning autism which later was diagnosed as Asperger syndrome but when he was six (2002) he had to get ready to attend classes so he can make his first holy communion the following year but due to his learning disability, I needed extra help for him and spoke with the church and they refused and the reason was that if he cannot understand it on his own then he was not ready to make it and would have to do it a few years later & would need to understand what it is that he’s told to believe in. My son with his condition has a photographic brain so he could’ve definitely memorized everything including the meaning of what he just read but he wouldn’t understand what it meant and I felt if you’re going to belong to church you’re in, you should really understand what it is that we are supposed to believe in.
I was so angry because he had a right to make his first holy communion like everybody else but they would not give me the extra assistance he would need so that he understood what it was he had to recite so between that and then remembering what happened to us when my sis & I were little, I never stepped foot in the Catholic Church again nor did I raise my son in any form of structured religion except having a spiritual relationship with Jesus from his heart and to this day my son does have a personal relationship with Jesus but it comes from his heart and not a building or a man (our case it’s a priest), claiming to be the one that Jesus speaks to. Of course we all know what happened years later with the scandal of improper behavior of the Catholic Church priests. Did not realize that there are extremist in every religion, including Roman Catholics.
I found your channel by accident and love it. Wishing you and your family a happy and healthy new year.
Man, that tie John makes between our innate sexuality and the subsequent reliance on the church for our worth and our forgiveness and salvation….hit hard.
I just want to point out the incredible dichotomy and tension in Chandler's story of the young women's activity where they're playing wedding dress up and being photographed in front of the temple picture... when they're 15 and not supposed to even be dating. They're not supposed to be exploring romantic relationships or their sexuality, AND they simultaneously are being specifically directed to think about their idealized marriage.
Listening to your experience at EFY makes me really appreciate the leaders I had in young women's. There were times I wore shorts too short for mormon standards to mutual, but my leaders just loved me instead of telling me I had to change my clothes. Eventually I realized that my shorts were shorter than the other girl's and made the change on my own - rather than making a change out of shame and fear from adult leaders. I was lucky!
Some people do get lucky - People at my church, the stake ward in Denver, were all pretty normal. No super hardcore Mormonism there, and I never felt weird being a half-black half Native-American Mormon, it just felt normal. There was also a girl my age who wore super super short shorts lol, way too short, especially when we went on a youth trip to the Rockies and they were sheer white when us young teens were walking down the middle of a river and we could all see her blue thong through the shorts. Kind of awkward at 13, but also turned all of us boys on at the same time haha ngl.
None of our church leaders cared about the modesty stuff and not in a weird way. They just let people be who they are.
Freaking Patriarchal blessings! Every woman is always told she's going to bear children, plural. Mine did. I struggle with fertility, having kids is hard for me, but it's harder when it's pushed on you from such an early age (14).
As a woman, my patriarchal blessing said I would be successful in my career. Kinda suprising, but I haven't been super successful yet so I guess they were right about having to be righteous for it to happen lol
HAHA I’m happy for you that’s hilarious though!😅
Mine said I would go on a mission with my husband in our elder years. Nope! Funny thing is I am currently in a relationship with a RM that is hot and cold with the church and it happened after I decided to stop going to church. So, joke’s on them, I guess.
Mine said I’d be successful in my career, too. We should compare
@@healingasthmaacasestudy9851 yes we should haha
Sounds like they started to change how they do that.
My husband and i were engaged and we made out quite a bit and we had to confess to the bishop. Very embarrassing! It is a bit ridiculous. We have been married for 24 years and we have not been in the church for 14 years and happy with it. We are still good people but with less responsibility.
Mechelle Winslow That’s the thing you don’t need to belong to a religion to tell you right from wrong. I’m sure leaving Mormonism has probably strengthened your marriage more than it would’ve if you stayed in.
We lived across the street from the park in Rexburg for about a year and a half, when I was between the ages of 12-13, and it was a pretty regular thing to see college students making out under blankets there at the park during warmer weather. I wasn't there when it happened, but I was told a couple of my younger siblings yanked the blankets off of some couples and ran away, lol. 😂
I grew up Pentecostal, and my whole life was controlled by the church. I struggled with anorexic and bulimia from ages 12 to 25. The biggest factor was’t wanting to be “beautiful” but that I wanted to be able to control something. My eating and my grades was all I could control, so I did. I fought to be valedictorian and weighed 80-90lbs on average at 5ft 4in.
Chandler, I was intrigued by the reference to satans proximity in your pb. My former sp father spilled (in a very oblique way) that he knew what I had confessed to the bishop. I'm suggesting your patriarch may have had prior direction.
31:43 I'm going to have to partly disagree. As a kid it was drilled into my head to scrupulously monitor my thoughts in every situation. I felt tremendous guilt for even having any passing sexual thought and mentally tortured myself over it.
I'm very sorry that happened to you. This was something my dad drilled into us. Every thought, no matter what, was being monitored by god and we would have to repent or answer for them. He made sure we knew that when the "movie" of our life was being played at the judgement day, that everyone there would hear and see our every single thought and action, no matter what. I asked him why we would even want to do that, how boring and mundane it would be. He said it was practice for godhood. Thankfully this is complete bunk. I hope you have healed or are healing from that trauma.
@@jw8631 No I am not but maybe someday. I'm glad you can relate.
@@r347-w7p I’m sorry you went through that friend. Nobody deserves to have that happen to them.
@@jw8631 “With every decision you make or thought you have, make sure you’d do it if Jesus were standing right there. Make sure you’d do it if I [my father] were standing there. If not, then it’s wrong.” (I didn’t grow up LDS, but parts of evangelical Christianity has some cross-over).
Now that you are an Adult, have you stopped torturing yourself?
The one girl I knew who was LDS growing up (I was Catholic) left the Mormon church at 18 years old SOLELY based on her interactions with bishops (sometimes panels) regarding sexual experiences and explanations. The questions that were asked of her were totally inappropriate. These men sounded a bit prevented to me. Of course we had to admit things in confession but NOTHING like what this Mormon CHILD was required to talk about.
Sam is a very insightful cohost, and she brings in additional thought very smoothly.
Thank God for BYU-I. Nothing nuttier than being told not to wear sandals. Keep it up!
I remember wearing sandals on campus once & legit ‘repenting’ for it. Scrupulously at BYUI was intense
I remember being told you could wear sandals but NOT flip flops 😂 they had to have backs to be counted as okay
@@tananite4830 makes sense
I dunno T-Pain. Some people have got some serious foot-fetishes, and as soon as they see some bare piggies, they just lose all control!!!
O God yeah imagine Jesus walking around one of their campuses.🤣
Not the toes it's too sexy🤣🤣🤣
My sister’s high school boyfriend was/is Mormon. He & my sister had a lot of sex in high school, which resulted in a teenage pregnancy for my sister. The purity culture does not stop the hormones. The hormones will have their say & often in really unhealthy ways if all you are taught is to repress them. This guy went on to do his mission & is still a practicing Mormon. I have no idea if his wife even knows he has a child from when he was 16.
So not surprised to read your story. I got pregnant out of wedlock by a Mormon guy and he paid me a bunch of money to go raise our son and terminate his paternal rights. The latter isn't legal in our case but he has chosen to never even meet our son and go on his merry way in Highland, UT. My son is better off but it still burns me that he gets to maintain his Mormon front (temple marriage with 2 women) and ignore his son.
I thought you can’t go on a mission if you have a kid.
@@noshrinkingviolet007 temple marriage with 2 women?
@@jasminescameraroll, you can only be sealed to one at a time, unless your wife passes, then you can be sealed to more than one.
@@jasminescameraroll - & a really appalling & patriarchal part of all this is that men can be sealed in the temple multiple times w/ different wives, but even if a woman has the same reasons for marrying again such as a spouse dying or divorce, she can’t be sealed again in the temple.
Even if you were dancing around naked, being raped could never be your own fault ❤❤❤❤
John - Love that you chose such dynamic, skilled, compassionate, & intelligent women as your co-hosts. Margie & Sam are amazing & such excellent & natural collaborators. I’ve never seen you try to make yourself more important than your co-hosts & guests or to be controlling in any manner. I love your style, intelligence, calming manner, & how you always provide validation, honesty, genuine, compassion, & support for all of your guests, & especially how you empower all of them.
I went to BYU Idaho. It was pretty funny. Around 1994 or so. At the time I was shaving my head. Eventually I got called in to student life about it. The guy said I wasn’t allowed to do that. I told him I had some skin issues and he sent me to the dr, I went to the dr and he was like, what the…there’s nothing wrong with your skin! So I went back and he said “grow it out or I’ll see you back here for another conversation that won’t be pleasant”.
The funny thing about BYU I is, everyone is sort of bought in to these ridiculous standards. The DR. Your classmates, roommates, testing center workers, there’s always a rat lurking somewhere. Minding your business was not a thing there. If you tended to stay out late often, or be alone with a girl often, you’re going to get called in eventually. It was inevitable.
The "modesty checks" by checking to see if your clothing covered even if your arms were raised
I got embarassed a lot as a kid because I was poor and wore clothes that didn't fit.
This episode was super good, for me, for many reasons. I like this Chandler, I don't know the past Chandler, but this Chandler is so confident, assertive, smart, funny, it's hard to imagine she was ever anything else. As an ex-mormon male living in SLC, mormon men (especially in Utah) are super toxic. I was in the single mormon scene from 2014 to 2017, and I would hear men in the cultural hall talk about how if a woman doesn't make 70k+, went to a super good school, and if she doesn't look the part, they will not take her serious. That was quite sad and shocking to hear men talk about, no wonder mormon women here are super picky, because they have bad experiences with mormon men here. Also, the fact that she got called to serve early is weird, because I got called super early to serve too. I had to drop out of Highschool because my stake president felt prompted to tell me to drop out of school and serve a mission, horse radish I tell ya. Great episode, can't wait to hear more.
This one made me cry. I’m so sorry for what you went through, Chandler. I think you are amazing. Sending hugs!! So sorry the church put you in this position!
I was in the Christian church and my experience was difference, but I related to a lot of what you said. And purity culture and some of the church beliefs led to abuse for me. You are figuring it out a lot earlier than me. Hugs again
Around 1:52 My response is - Ahh, everyone is not smarter than you, Chandler! You deserve to assert your wisdom and intelligence onto people as you have here! It's a blessing to learn from others like yourself!
I was given a bizarrely amazing patriarchal blessing. I was 14. I’m now 70. A great life. Also- Lived most my life in bars as a full time rock singer and guitarist. I played 6 nighters, 5 hours a night. Loved it. I still gig. I never broke the Word of Wisdom. Ever. Not once. When someone wanted to buy me a drink, the band guys would say - NOOOO. She’s wild enough!! If she drank, she’d fly into outer space!! It was our big joke. I lost loved ones to lung cancer from smoking. Lost friends in head-on dui crashes- so, I had zero interest in coffee, tobacco, alcohol, drugs. Whatever. My nose is really hypersensitive and I have life-threatening allergies to lots of things others can smoke, drink, eat. Just lucky. 😁
It’s interesting to me how people who leave the church can’t seem to leave it alone.
They talk about it because of their shaming experiences that they were subjected to in the church. One sided policies that favor men over women.
Yes!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 the more sexuality is repressed the more sexual and weird kids are about it. Or unhealthy views I should say!
It isn't only Mormons who have this view and approach to children, teens and sexuality. Other conservative Christian religions tend this way and it's a generally old fashioned idea that was present in my atheist upbringing. It's great that you are having this conversation.
I’m Catholic, and don’t get me wrong, the Catholic Church can be pretty prudish about sex and sexual health etc. But we are not essentially trained to be like the KGB/Communist regime where you’re supposed to snitch on people who break the rules.
It’s sounds like in more traditionalist LDS communities/families, you’re supposed to hold each other accountable for breaking church rules. And you have to remember, brow-beating people that anything sexual (masturbation included) for YEARS is the most extremely serious crime in the church, that is going to give people serious psychological problems around sex and anything related to it. Not to mention having to go into very inappropriate details with the bishop about it. Other churches don’t have people going into specific details about the sexual encounter. I have been to confession and I never ever confessed to sexual things. Because I am not comfortable disclosing that and sexual things are not bad. I refuse to treat it like a sin.
Thank you for being so honest Chandler.
So many relatable themes and experiences that Chandler shared. Thanks for opening up.
This sounds exactly like JW stories. Wow!
Great episode. Thank you Chandler for telling your story. It's amazing how actually strong you were the whole time you were abused, confused and especially misled. Bright future to you!!!
This was so mind blowing for me, now understanding why I always felt like everyone knew more than me 🤯 I always felt so limited in my understanding and never understood why until this episode. Also her story is very relatable as a mormon young woman, including the sexual assault from garment wearing, return missionary men. I'm realizing A LOT right now.
I was at BYU-Idaho around the same time and totally relate to some of the experiences shared. Power to ya girl!
BYU-I was intense to say the least!! I'm so excited for this one 💕💕
It is SO difficult to be a young female in the “church”/cult. Her self-esteem is low because worth is superficial, based upon appearance. Her value depends on an upbeat disposition and demeanor; it must always be positive, outgoing and righteously motivated. Period.
🙋♀️ had this very convo w my TBM on Sunday. But they just don't grasp the severity of the effect this has on a yw. Ty .
The south park creators said Mormons are the nicest people ever
another wonderful wonderful episode, thank you!!! also loved sam as a co-host
So fun to have Samantha on today!
Yes Steph. You can never go wrong with Sam!
Extremely relatable to me. Coming from a man who grew up Mormon, "struggled" with being bisexual, developed sexual addiction from never being taught any healthy alternatives. I wanted to be good and do the right thing, I wanted my parents to be proud of me, and I tried so hard, then I would always slip up worse than the last time. Being a Mormon with a sexual addiction is like living a double life. I was so focused on trying to be a good Mormon, but at the same time I couldn't help myself. And instead of being in normal relationships where I could experiment in a healthy way, instead I was continually going on the internet and finding people to sext with or meet up with. People way older than me that took advantage of me. Did things to me I wasn't ready for. At the time I thought that's what I wanted. I kept that side of me secret because I was terrified of the consequences. I didn't want to get excommunicated. It wasn't till half way through my mission I confessed. Not because I felt bad, but because I met someone online (I was on an iPad mission) who helped me realize I dont belive and never really did. I just wanted my parents to be proud and happy. And so i came home and never came back to church again.
I’ll tell you a few about BYUI. While I was just recently a student there, it was known that men could get kicked out of the university if they were unshaven on campus! I heard multiple times of students having been kicked out of class by teachers for having a shadow! From some close guy friends, I also heard that if you can’t shave for medical reasons, you could get an excuse card but only if you shaved in front of medical personnel to prove you had a problem. If you qualified, before giving you the card they’d first make you watch a guilt video explaining why you’d still be sinning….🙄🤢 Completely messed up.
As for me, one fun story I have came from this class with a teacher who, upon her imaginary pulpit, loved to constantly guilt us. One time before a test, she gave a lengthy discussion explaining that if we cheated we’d then be sinning and therefore would not be worthy of our temple recommend which then meant we weren’t worthy for the celestial kingdom
Oh, and I also lost my campus job over having multiple ear piercings (It was a grounds crew job of all things). This happened just barely before they were allowed
GODDAMN! She was still so ready to stay & the church just fumbled over and over again! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I also attended EFY multiple times in Tacoma back between 2007 and 2011. EFY happened to be the same week as a cheerleading camp on the same campus. This meant that we shared spaces during EFY with the cheerleaders who were often wearing immodest clothing. I cringe to no end remembering the times the EFY boys would shout "modest is hottest" to the young women just there for a cheer camp. oof
Did he send those threats AFTER he raped her ? She's still very traumatized about it, I hope she's getting the help of a good therapist.
The Mormon women you have on this podcast ARE very good looking!!! I’m always amazed that every one - starting with Margi- are just beautiful, with sweet voices. We Catholic girls were way less attractive! haha. But we weren’t necessarily expected to get married- they mostly wanted us to be nuns. But I DO relate to so many of their feelings- shame, “less than”, anxiety, inferiority…but I personally suffered with an eating disorder. I think that’s a woman thing though.
My patriarchal blessing was also short and generic, I was so disappointed and blamed myself. I thought I wasn't worthy enough and messed up my chance to receive direct instructions from god. It caused me so much stress and made me feel like a complete fraud. I thought I was eternally damning my soul with every step of the way as I prepared for a mission.
I'm a current student at BYU Idaho. I had a roommate do something next to me in the living room while having a sleepover and it was with a boy. I had a crisis appointment at the counseling center and then the counselor had me talk to Title 9 the law office and the lawyer walked me to Honor Code office. They lied to me that nothing was going to be reported and it was. All of my roommates had to talk to Honor Code and my roommate who did that next to me was blaming me for everything. I became so suicidal. I have never been so suicidal in my life. I have to go back on January 4th and I do not want to. I wish my parents would listen to me. I wish I were financially stable so I could be independent from my parents and choose a better college. Hoping it goes better next semester.
I’m so so sorry Madison. Please email us if we can help. mormonstories@gmail.com
This discussion of dinosaurs reminds me of a conversation I had with a BYU geology professor. I asked him how he got around the whole issue of evolutionary theory. I asked how he discussed it in class. He said he had to discuss it very carefully.
What a fascinating talk, my heart goes out to all Mormon girls, they are programed to lose themselves from the beginning.
Wish I could give this a thousand up-votes ...
In my experience mormon women tend to be absolute doormats or completely psycho (as in Lori Vallow).
Hearing Chandler's heartbreak over the solid, non-mormon guy breaks my heart. I didn't know this was a common phenomena in Mormonism and Sam's comment of how the church caused her do "self-betrayal" essentially by leaving a guy she intuitively thought was good for her, (just not mormon.) And I just wanted to hug her when she opened up about her r*pe story... So terrible to hear how these bad things happen to good people who are then blamed for it. My heart really goes out to her.
This has been really nice to listen too. I’ve had a lot of similar traumas from the church (my sister is currently going through it with our family) it’s been helping me so much to know I’m not alone in who the church has hurt. I’m sorry all that happened to you.