Right now Los Angeles Metro wants to build a line through the Westside up into the Valley somewhat east of the I-405 alignment and relieving that traffic bottleneck, with a stop at UCLA. The ridership projection is more than enough for heavy rail, yet a counterproposal to build a monorail (not stopping at UCLA) instead won't die because a few very rich people in Bel-Air don't want a subway under their houses. These aren't the "Hollywood A-List" either, they're the people who sign the A-list's paychecks.
Why not just build the subway between UCLA and San Fernando Valley underneath the 405? Or if elevated use Montreal Metro style trains and track instead?
I hope that the line actually gets built, because a monorail would make ZERO sense for that one of the use cases where monorails actually makes sense is in ultra-dense urban cores where other modes of transport simply cannot fit, but suburban LA definitely doesn't have this problem
The moscow transport agency's website has a page about how useless and expensive the monorail is. For example (from their site): it's over twice as slow as a bus on the same route, 10 new units will cost as much as 132 metro wagons or 118 tram units and so on... Also, you saying it runs "regular passenger service" is a bit generous. It has a train every 30 minutes compared to the moscow metro where trains can run up to less than a minute apart. Also, it actually has a tram route running completely parallel for half the way, so makes complete sense to just extend it. Also, there are already both the central and big circle metro lines running parallel, so they can even probably just close it without replacing it with anything
The train goes once 30 minutes because the monorail has been recently downgraded to an excursion/exhibition transport. It's just a tourist attraction nowadays.
Considering the fact that Japan, a liberal democratic country has several monorails, means that they can definitely work in certain cases The Chinese bus cannot be attributed to "authoritarian country bad" since it was a private company who did it
About monorails, I said as much in the video, I never said that they were completely unnecessary, but their actual viable use case is certainly quite limited
@@TheTramlylimited or not, I do believe they have been severely underutilized due to the timing of their introduction. Because modern monorails as we know them became popular in the mid 20th century, most cities already had established rapid transit systems so their focus was on expanding them, usually into less dense areas where they could easily run them elevated or at grade without expensive tunneling. As well, many cities which began rapid transit expansion later on have a built form which allows for light rail with limited tunneling in the city centre and priority surface operation at worst. Where monorails could and have begun to really shine is in existing high density cities where more grade separated transit is needed, but the funds do not exist to go underground and there are concerns that an elevated structure could be a blight. In my experience being under an elevated light rail guideway is like being under a highway on ramp, while being under a monorail is like being under a rollercoaster track. With the costs and engineering hassles to build new downtown subways in New York and Toronto, a monorail could have been what the doctor ordered even if the rolling stock wouldn't work with the existing systems.
Monorail there isn't a toy for rulers, but a good quality public transit. In Japan it uses in places there you can't use ground transit, or there you can't/don't want to build metro. Sometimes include monorail in project on early stages, cheaper than build overground metro line. Besides main monorail companies founded in China and Japan, so maintain not a problem.
@@LeonidJP92 @alezar2035 I think the main issue with the monorail is that with that type of infrastructure you end up introducing an incompatibility with the other forms of urban transports and you end up with proprietary technologies. Regarding the incompatibility the only way to escape it is to star with a big network from day 1, so it does not necessarily needs to be integrated with other modes, it has a higher likelihood to achieve some level of sustainability and does not let funders to cut incompleted sections because of cost related issues. Japan started big and it has some logic, in Australia, America and Europe we usually built monorails for temporary events like Olympics or national exhibition with a handful of stops at max, in that case when the venues are terminated and the "Wow effect" too you end up with a very expensive connection from nowhere to a mostly abandoned place . The issue is the proprietary technology, you end up with unstandardised vehicles which allow the producers to ask for monopolistic prices for the vehicles and related technologies, and than start the issues with failures, spare parts, patents for spare parts. In this case also the solution is to order a big batch of vehicles and developing an in house building and maintenance facility and hoping that when you have to reverse engineering the consumed parts, no one is going to report to the company and regulators.
As a resident of Tokyo, I completely agree. Even in the Tokyo metropolitan area, home to 37 million people and one of the most profitable regions, only four monorails have been built. Of these, only the Shonan Monorail consistently turns a profit, while the remaining three fluctuate between operating in the red and black. Monorails had to be built in these areas because narrow roads prevented the construction of tram lines or double-track subways. Trams and subways are more rational choices. If something in between is needed, Automated Guideway Transit (AGT), which is an elevated train running on rubber tires, is an option. However, this should be limited to areas where the terrain is too hilly for trams and there is exceptionally high demand. Fundamentally, trams or subways should be the go-to options. In any case, even in Tokyo, the world's largest metropolitan area with the most developed public transportation system, monorails are a headache.
I made a research, Moscow monorail duplicates tram on a half way. Soo... Build a tram elevation across railway? But no, they built monorail. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@LeonidJP92exactly, and so was an elevated metro line in the outskirts of moscow. Built to merely show off in front of the newly “elected” president and his team. Basically, the next and acting mayor has been doing just the same
Mmm using the 2020 moscow map metro is soooooo relevant About Light metro system - Moscow metro tried to do it, so two line was built: 12 and 4A as "mini-metro" And it seems to be the same cost of normal metro. Soo, only tram could work
Monorails DO have valid use cases but nine times out of ten instead of it being a consideration for adding infrastructure to a dense urban core with minimal impact on the surrounding area, it's, "But we don't want to build an elevated train! That looks ugly!"
monorails can actually work in some case! if the city has large elevation changes, (e.g chongqing) the monorail is a better choice because it can scale slopes more effectively, and in cities like wuhu, the density is really high and the monorail tracks take less space than normal rail so it can still work somteims
In Mexico they've chosen to built elevated trolleybus on an avenue where the planned means of transportation for decades was Metro. Why? Because it's cheaper and quicker tu build and inaugurate. What if the trolleybus route is insufficient from day one? They can always use that for electoral propaganda purposes
All those fancy mean of transport have something in common, they look futuristic and probably that's what enspire workers to study, engineer and build them, cities and wealthy people to finance them. I wonder, all we were kids were happy to wave hello to the trains but we never waved hello to a bike, motorbike or a car somewhere between the kid we were and when we start filing our taxes our fascination for trains gets lost and I wonder why is it, is it because by that time we almost all of us incurred in a crowded coach, a bad delay etc. or it's just something that we thought unusual and not achievable. I think that this aspect of unacheivability is what makes this projects appealing, a bit like the lotto and scratch cards, the probability of becoming a millionaire are ridiculously low but if it happens... .
I don't care if I will live in a dictatorship, I just want monorail! What party promises to build monorail? Commies? Far right? I have to check it and vote them. 😀
The TEB design has flaws.... That one flaw is the height of the bus itself... It was 2.5m....it is supposed to be 6m height as single deck bus and trucks can pass thru underneath it... Position of it's bogey... It has to be Jacob's bogey like most trams...
I wonder why this video is so ideologically charged, lacking self awareness at that. We in the West do not have true democracy, we do not have much say on our urban planning and transit projects (where were Translohr and GLT invented? How late was the Elizabeth Line? Etc.) , as evidenced by almost a century of bad urban planning, cutbacks in or outright removal of public transit, and unnecessary sprawl here. This just reeks of arrogance. Instead of focusing on these so called "authoritarian" regimes, we'd rather focus on how we can change the structure of our society, HERE, in order to actually decommodify and democratize urban spaces.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
The rise of gadgetbahnen - the triumph of self-aggrandisement and wishful thinking over common sense.
Right now Los Angeles Metro wants to build a line through the Westside up into the Valley somewhat east of the I-405 alignment and relieving that traffic bottleneck, with a stop at UCLA. The ridership projection is more than enough for heavy rail, yet a counterproposal to build a monorail (not stopping at UCLA) instead won't die because a few very rich people in Bel-Air don't want a subway under their houses. These aren't the "Hollywood A-List" either, they're the people who sign the A-list's paychecks.
Why not just build the subway between UCLA and San Fernando Valley underneath the 405? Or if elevated use Montreal Metro style trains and track instead?
I hope that the line actually gets built, because a monorail would make ZERO sense for that
one of the use cases where monorails actually makes sense is in ultra-dense urban cores where other modes of transport simply cannot fit, but suburban LA definitely doesn't have this problem
@@TheTramly just build a highwaynmedian metro
The moscow transport agency's website has a page about how useless and expensive the monorail is. For example (from their site): it's over twice as slow as a bus on the same route, 10 new units will cost as much as 132 metro wagons or 118 tram units and so on...
Also, you saying it runs "regular passenger service" is a bit generous. It has a train every 30 minutes compared to the moscow metro where trains can run up to less than a minute apart. Also, it actually has a tram route running completely parallel for half the way, so makes complete sense to just extend it. Also, there are already both the central and big circle metro lines running parallel, so they can even probably just close it without replacing it with anything
The train goes once 30 minutes because the monorail has been recently downgraded to an excursion/exhibition transport. It's just a tourist attraction nowadays.
Considering the fact that Japan, a liberal democratic country has several monorails, means that they can definitely work in certain cases
The Chinese bus cannot be attributed to "authoritarian country bad" since it was a private company who did it
About monorails, I said as much in the video, I never said that they were completely unnecessary, but their actual viable use case is certainly quite limited
@@TheTramlylimited or not, I do believe they have been severely underutilized due to the timing of their introduction. Because modern monorails as we know them became popular in the mid 20th century, most cities already had established rapid transit systems so their focus was on expanding them, usually into less dense areas where they could easily run them elevated or at grade without expensive tunneling. As well, many cities which began rapid transit expansion later on have a built form which allows for light rail with limited tunneling in the city centre and priority surface operation at worst.
Where monorails could and have begun to really shine is in existing high density cities where more grade separated transit is needed, but the funds do not exist to go underground and there are concerns that an elevated structure could be a blight. In my experience being under an elevated light rail guideway is like being under a highway on ramp, while being under a monorail is like being under a rollercoaster track.
With the costs and engineering hassles to build new downtown subways in New York and Toronto, a monorail could have been what the doctor ordered even if the rolling stock wouldn't work with the existing systems.
Monorail there isn't a toy for rulers, but a good quality public transit. In Japan it uses in places there you can't use ground transit, or there you can't/don't want to build metro. Sometimes include monorail in project on early stages, cheaper than build overground metro line. Besides main monorail companies founded in China and Japan, so maintain not a problem.
@@LeonidJP92look at Adam something video about monorails
@@LeonidJP92 @alezar2035 I think the main issue with the monorail is that with that type of infrastructure you end up introducing an incompatibility with the other forms of urban transports and you end up with proprietary technologies.
Regarding the incompatibility the only way to escape it is to star with a big network from day 1, so it does not necessarily needs to be integrated with other modes, it has a higher likelihood to achieve some level of sustainability and does not let funders to cut incompleted sections because of cost related issues.
Japan started big and it has some logic, in Australia, America and Europe we usually built monorails for temporary events like Olympics or national exhibition with a handful of stops at max, in that case when the venues are terminated and the "Wow effect" too you end up with a very expensive connection from nowhere to a mostly abandoned place .
The issue is the proprietary technology, you end up with unstandardised vehicles which allow the producers to ask for monopolistic prices for the vehicles and related technologies, and than start the issues with failures, spare parts, patents for spare parts. In this case also the solution is to order a big batch of vehicles and developing an in house building and maintenance facility and hoping that when you have to reverse engineering the consumed parts, no one is going to report to the company and regulators.
As a resident of Tokyo, I completely agree. Even in the Tokyo metropolitan area, home to 37 million people and one of the most profitable regions, only four monorails have been built. Of these, only the Shonan Monorail consistently turns a profit, while the remaining three fluctuate between operating in the red and black. Monorails had to be built in these areas because narrow roads prevented the construction of tram lines or double-track subways.
Trams and subways are more rational choices. If something in between is needed, Automated Guideway Transit (AGT), which is an elevated train running on rubber tires, is an option. However, this should be limited to areas where the terrain is too hilly for trams and there is exceptionally high demand. Fundamentally, trams or subways should be the go-to options.
In any case, even in Tokyo, the world's largest metropolitan area with the most developed public transportation system, monorails are a headache.
I agree, things like monorails and AGT aren't completely unviable all of the time, but the use cases where they are viable are extremely limited
like a wise man said, JUST BUILD A FUCKING TRAIN
I made a research, Moscow monorail duplicates tram on a half way. Soo... Build a tram elevation across railway? But no, they built monorail. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i really don't know why, for that use case, a monorail doesn't make sense
@@TheTramly If I remember correctly it was toy for authoritarian mayor.
@@LeonidJP92exactly, and so was an elevated metro line in the outskirts of moscow. Built to merely show off in front of the newly “elected” president and his team. Basically, the next and acting mayor has been doing just the same
Mmm using the 2020 moscow map metro is soooooo relevant
About Light metro system - Moscow metro tried to do it, so two line was built: 12 and 4A as "mini-metro"
And it seems to be the same cost of normal metro. Soo, only tram could work
Monorails DO have valid use cases but nine times out of ten instead of it being a consideration for adding infrastructure to a dense urban core with minimal impact on the surrounding area, it's, "But we don't want to build an elevated train! That looks ugly!"
yeah, pretty much.. I'd argue that gridlocked traffic and the subsequent air and noise pollution is worse, but thats just me
4:09 I was surprised to see an NS-93 in China lol
Cities in the UK could benefit from these transit systems that dont have trams and/or underground subway systems.
We could just have a government government a damm
monorails can actually work in some case! if the city has large elevation changes, (e.g chongqing) the monorail is a better choice because it can scale slopes more effectively, and in cities like wuhu, the density is really high and the monorail tracks take less space than normal rail so it can still work somteims
Absolutely, in certain contexts, monorails can be viable
6:13 Deltarune sound effect lol
Yes!
(chapter 3 please come out soon i'm going insane)
@TheTramly Toby fox said chapter 3 and 4 might come our later this year or early next year
In Mexico they've chosen to built elevated trolleybus on an avenue where the planned means of transportation for decades was Metro. Why? Because it's cheaper and quicker tu build and inaugurate. What if the trolleybus route is insufficient from day one? They can always use that for electoral propaganda purposes
Anděl bows up lmao
Normal day in Anděl
@@TheTramly nah its the entirity of Smíchov
All those fancy mean of transport have something in common, they look futuristic and probably that's what enspire workers to study, engineer and build them, cities and wealthy people to finance them.
I wonder, all we were kids were happy to wave hello to the trains but we never waved hello to a bike, motorbike or a car somewhere between the kid we were and when we start filing our taxes our fascination for trains gets lost and I wonder why is it, is it because by that time we almost all of us incurred in a crowded coach, a bad delay etc. or it's just something that we thought unusual and not achievable.
I think that this aspect of unacheivability is what makes this projects appealing, a bit like the lotto and scratch cards, the probability of becoming a millionaire are ridiculously low but if it happens... .
I don't care if I will live in a dictatorship, I just want monorail! What party promises to build monorail? Commies? Far right? I have to check it and vote them. 😀
But why ?for instance look at monorail switches they are pain in a ass
@@dominikmartinisko I just want it!
The TEB design has flaws.... That one flaw is the height of the bus itself... It was 2.5m....it is supposed to be 6m height as single deck bus and trucks can pass thru underneath it... Position of it's bogey... It has to be Jacob's bogey like most trams...
I wonder why this video is so ideologically charged, lacking self awareness at that. We in the West do not have true democracy, we do not have much say on our urban planning and transit projects (where were Translohr and GLT invented? How late was the Elizabeth Line? Etc.) , as evidenced by almost a century of bad urban planning, cutbacks in or outright removal of public transit, and unnecessary sprawl here. This just reeks of arrogance. Instead of focusing on these so called "authoritarian" regimes, we'd rather focus on how we can change the structure of our society, HERE, in order to actually decommodify and democratize urban spaces.
to be balanced, I'll make a video about unnecessary and sometimes just outright *dumb* projects in the West as well
Lots of places in USA have too many buildings. US environment is very different from Czech Republic
ferfth
Streetcars are very useless
Say that to every major european city..
bro thinks he dont live in a dictatorship 🤣
Where is he from?
@@c.n.i7105Guessing from his videos, he's from Czech Republic, which I can confirm that it's not dictatorship oriented country. But just Guessing.
I am from the Czech Republic, yes
@@oranzada3129 Well, pretty much any Central European country isn’t a dictatorship
Non-national flag on profile pic, opinion is worthless