Have read the whole thing. It’s absolutely wonderful. Truly lays out the many different ways we as believers are united with Christ. I couldn’t put it down.
Love this episode. I’m part way through Dr Beale’s biblical theology and coming to under stand union with Christ has been such a gamechanger for me and also seeing Jesus throughout the scriptures, inaugurated eschatology, covenant theology… As someone newer to reformed theology over the past few years this has been such a joy and blessing to know our Lord and his word in such an amazing way.
It is true that the faith which I am able to exercise is God's own gift. He alone supports it, and He alone can increase it. Moment by moment, I depend on Him. If I were left to myself, my faith would utterly fail. -George Mueller-
What an outstanding discussion on the underrated aspects of BT and ST of the resurrected Christ and its relation to union/benefits, ordo & historia salutis, etc. I love how Beale pointedly brings up and questioned you all on specific issues of mild contention with practical import w/i the Reformed theological community which I encourage you all (e.g. definitive sanctification, happen to agree with you all & Murray v. some of the other respected voices I've read). I encourage you all to continue to not hesitate broaching and clarifying such points of contention and entertaining those with different opinions (like you have occasionally done in other areas such as with Catholic scholars) staying relevant to a broad lay audience while delving into some of the pointed differences existing in our Reformed theological communities that help also educate on the broader areas where all agree. All in the irenic charitable spirit you are skilled in to further theological discussion and clarity (and to best further the Vosian bent I also appreciate by engaging those less definitively within those circles of dialogue).
Excellent conversation! Absolutely beautiful! The following is another text which implicitly teaches union with the resurrected Christ: 1 Timothy 3:16 ESV - Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Justification by works where works is defined as good deeds of faith, hope and obedience informed by love enacted by habitual and actual grace is amply evidenced in the scriptures including Mark 16:16, Rom 2:6-7, Rom 4:18, Rom 5:5, Rom 8:24:, Heb 11:1, James 2:24. St Paul's verses opposing faith with works and works of the law defined as Mosaic sacraments and the Mosaic law do not infer justification by faith alone. Firstly, Abraham was justified by faith connected to hope (Rom 4:18) and love (Rom 5). And the Mosaic law rescinded at Pentecost and the Jerusalem council is replaced by the law of Christ which anulls specific Mosaic laws, but elevates the 10 commandments to a high interior manifestation in the sermon on the mount. Justification by works where works is defined as good deeds of faith, hope and obedience informed by love enacted by habitual and actual grace is amply evidenced in the scriptures including Mark 16:16, Rom 2:6-7, Rom 4:18, Rom 5:5, Rom 8:24:, Heb 11:1, James 2:24. St Paul's verses opposing faith with works and works of the law defined as Mosaic sacraments and the Mosaic law do not infer justification by faith alone. Firstly, Abraham was justified by faith connected to hope (Rom 4:18) and love (Rom 5). And the Mosaic law rescinded at Pentecost and the Jerusalem council is replaced by the law of Christ which anulls specific Mosaic laws, but elevates the 10 commandments to a high interior manifestation in the sermon on the mount. An irony of faith alone theology is biblical faith involves a spousal covenant union with the divine bridegroom within the covenant. Faith is never framed by a courtroom scene and never portrayed as an instrument circumstantially contextualised by any great exchange occurring at the atonement. Justification by faith presumes divine love already infused (Rom 5) within the new covenant sacraments. Abraham's specific justification really had nothing directly associated with Abraham's sin but rather the present trial of Arbaham's delayed inheritance granted through Isaac contextually portrayed by Abraham and Sarah's dead bodies. Abraham's sins were only indirectly associated with justification secondary to the explicit problem resolution of Yahweh keeping his promise to grant Abraham's descendents and Abraham's inheritance. The typical exegesis of Romans 4 central to the reformed understanding of justification by faith alone ignores the covenant context of Abraham's faith and the new covenant context of the Christian's justification. St Paul says the gospel founded upon the law and the prophets (Rom 3:21) which therefore must include all the prominent prophetic promises including the new Exodus, new creation, restoration of Israel, ingathering of the nations, and great tribulation - all of which are completely ignored by exegetes when examining Rom 3:21-4:25. The typical exegesis of Romans 4 central to the reformed understanding of justification ignores the covenant context of Abraham's faith and the new covenant context of the Christian's justification. St Paul says the gospel founded upon the law and the prophets (Rom 3:21) which therefore must include all the prominent prophetic promises including the new Exodus, new creation, restoration of Israel, ingathering of the nations, and great tribulation - all of which are completely ignored by exegetes when examining Rom 3:21-4:25.
I just wanted to confirm something you stated @ 33:26 Were you saying either of the following; "Adam being offered the coats of skins was common grace?" or "Adam laying hold of, and putting on the coats of skins was common grace?" Can you please confirm what you were meaning by the statement concerning common grace... Thanks
Amen, Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
What many term "progressive sanctification" is simply a growth of the new nature, wherein the believer is perfectly conformed to Christ ; growth occurs because one is sanctified, and the result is a greater knowledge of Christ and ones sinfulness. The believer however retains the old nature in which dwelleth no good thing. This old nature does not change and in this sense even the believer has that "child of wrath" flesh until death ; we have sin, but we are holy as God only views His people in that eternal union with Christ.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ or Father in us. The trinity it's the true heresy God always been one and never three and HE BECOME FLESH. and now in dwell in is by is Holy Spirit . The trinitarian have destroy the greatest commandment.
@@MrJohnmartin2009 "We call ourselves Catholics, not Papists. We, who strive to uphold the ancient faith, are the true Catholics; and they, who have departed from it, have fallen away from the Catholic faith." - John Calvin
THE LIFE HE LIVED QUALIFIES HIM FOR THE DEATH HE DIED THE DEATH THAT HE DIED QUALIFIES YOU TO RECEIVE THE LIFE THAT HE LIVED Maj. I Thomas , ❤Grain of Wheat
@@langer747 Church history until the reformation is thoroughly Catholic with all the Catholic distinctive beliefs and practices well documented in the church fathers and church councils. John Calvin was a rank heretic who invented his own version of Christianity based upon his own pride. there is no salvation outside the Catholic church and therefore it's highly likely Calvin did not go to heaven. Calvin, like all the reformers had a false theology of the church, denied church infallibility and the seven sacraments, making the reformation a significant deformation of the full gospel only found in the Catholic church. High quality reformed scholarship hides the many and various irresoluble problems with the reformation particularly on the theological import and authority of the church and her convoked councils under the Papacy. The Papal keys of David were universally acknowledged by the church fathers as having primacy over the church contrary to the false eisegesis of the reformers and the false principle of private interpretation. Reply - Jesus, Peter & the Keys: A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy provides ample historical evidence for the western fathers acceptance of the Catholic Papacy. www.amazon.com/Jesus-Peter-Keys-Scriptural-Handbook/dp/1882972546 Another source presents evidence for east and western fathers acknowledging the Papacy. Speaking of the book - Keys Over the Christian World, . . . Sources include those from the original Latin, Greek, Chaldean, Syriac, Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian and others. With these sources, the authors weave together a tapestry of the papacy that shows, without the shadow of a doubt, that the Church recognized the papacy from its humble beginnings in 33 AD throughout the first millennium to be the God-ordained supreme authority over the whole Church, from east to west. . . catholicintl.blogspot.com/p/store.html#!/Keys-Over-the-Christian-World-2nd-ed-PDF/p/473223642/category=1475245
A great conversation. Everything stated is thoroughly Catholic except the reformed claim about justification by faith alone and references to the reformed catechisms. The entire bible is a liturgical document used in sacramental worship. Therefore justification by faith is a sacramental encounter with the divine bridegroom in the Eucharist and not the alien righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer within a courtroom setting dictated by penal substitution theory. If Dr Beale was a complete exegete he would note the sacramentality of St Paul's gospel and exegete the letters sacramentally framed by the new Exodus, new creation, new covenant and restoration of Israel. Beale's reformated non sacramental presumptions prevent him from providing any substantial exegesis of St Paul faithful to his fuller sacramental intent. St Paul was a Catholic bishop with a sacramental gospel and not a reformed believer in a denomination without reference to the seven sacraments. The new Exodus is only fully realised by eating the Passover lamb only available in the Eucharist simultaneously obtaining the faithful's access to the throne of grace united to the heavenly sanctuary where Jesus continues as a priest forever offering the Eucharistic sacrifice. Without the Eucharist there is no complete Passover or fulfillment of John 6, or sanctuary fulfillments of the high priest offering sacrifice presented to the heavenly altar. Jesus ascended into heaven and the Spirit descended at Pentecost granting a miraculous representation of the divine presences at the Eucharistic liturgy. The apostles celebrated the Eucharistic breaking of bread imitating the prior Pentecost miracle granting the new Exodus Passover with the new covenant Eucharist. The Pentecost event melds the visible and invisible divine missions through miracles and sacraments mutually verifying each other, both manifesting the divine power. The fullness of the Catholic gospel is found in the catechism of the Council of Trent and the Catholic catechism. You will all be judged by the Catholic Jesus at death according to the Catholic gospel and without access to the Eucharist there is no claim to fulfill John 6, or have justification by faith in Jesus really present within the Eucharist. Kind regards and always in my prayers for you all. God bless.
@MrJohnmartin2009 The notion that Paul was a Westminsterian Reformed Christian is of course silly, but it is also laughable that you think he was a Trentian Catholic bishop. That is astonishingly historically naive. The truth of the matter is the apostolic and early church simply did not nicely fit into our precise little categories, but that does not mean that codifying what we believe into counsels and confessions is an error. The Church is still being built and still growing up into maturity and that’s okay. We lean on the giants of the past and try to hold to their traditions and beliefs as best as we can insofar as we can see it from scripture. I happen to agree with you that the sacraments really are far more important than the average baptistic evangelical believes, but I am far more comfortable trusting in Christ’s righteousness as covering me and commending me to God’s judgement than AT ALL thinking that my deeds have anything to do with commending me in His sight.
@@tjkhan4541 The sacraments are presumed throughout the text as normative instruments of uniting God with His covenant people and remembering redemptive history. Every text is presumptively sacramental as a spousal love letter to the covenant bride from the divine bridegroom. To ignore the sacramentality of the biblical text is to ignore the sacramental depth of the text and divine intent to spousally unite himself to the faithful.
Great show
Great guests
Thank you
Have read the whole thing. It’s absolutely wonderful. Truly lays out the many different ways we as believers are united with Christ. I couldn’t put it down.
I was able to read through the book. Good insights for what Christ has done for the believer.
Love this episode. I’m part way through Dr Beale’s biblical theology and coming to under stand union with Christ has been such a gamechanger for me and also seeing Jesus throughout the scriptures, inaugurated eschatology, covenant theology… As someone newer to reformed theology over the past few years this has been such a joy and blessing to know our Lord and his word in such an amazing way.
It is true that the faith which I am able to exercise
is God's own gift.
He alone supports it, and He alone can increase it.
Moment by moment, I depend on Him.
If I were left to myself, my faith would utterly fail.
-George Mueller-
Great book and great interview 👍
What an outstanding discussion on the underrated aspects of BT and ST of the resurrected Christ and its relation to union/benefits, ordo & historia salutis, etc. I love how Beale pointedly brings up and questioned you all on specific issues of mild contention with practical import w/i the Reformed theological community which I encourage you all (e.g. definitive sanctification, happen to agree with you all & Murray v. some of the other respected voices I've read). I encourage you all to continue to not hesitate broaching and clarifying such points of contention and entertaining those with different opinions (like you have occasionally done in other areas such as with Catholic scholars) staying relevant to a broad lay audience while delving into some of the pointed differences existing in our Reformed theological communities that help also educate on the broader areas where all agree. All in the irenic charitable spirit you are skilled in to further theological discussion and clarity (and to best further the Vosian bent I also appreciate by engaging those less definitively within those circles of dialogue).
Just got the book ❤
Excellent conversation! Absolutely beautiful! The following is another text which implicitly teaches union with the resurrected Christ:
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV - Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:
He was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world,
taken up in glory.
He did not come to put wind to our sails, but to clear the decks for divine action
MI Thomas
The Pauline mystery Col 1;27-27❤
The last comment,” except, justification by faith” is the difference between gospel and works. One saves and the other will not friend.
Justification by works where works is defined as good deeds of faith, hope and obedience informed by love enacted by habitual and actual grace is amply evidenced in the scriptures including Mark 16:16, Rom 2:6-7, Rom 4:18, Rom 5:5, Rom 8:24:, Heb 11:1, James 2:24.
St Paul's verses opposing faith with works and works of the law defined as Mosaic sacraments and the Mosaic law do not infer justification by faith alone. Firstly, Abraham was justified by faith connected to hope (Rom 4:18) and love (Rom 5). And the Mosaic law rescinded at Pentecost and the Jerusalem council is replaced by the law of Christ which anulls specific Mosaic laws, but elevates the 10 commandments to a high interior manifestation in the sermon on the mount.
Justification by works where works is defined as good deeds of faith, hope and obedience informed by love enacted by habitual and actual grace is amply evidenced in the scriptures including Mark 16:16, Rom 2:6-7, Rom 4:18, Rom 5:5, Rom 8:24:, Heb 11:1, James 2:24. St Paul's verses opposing faith with works and works of the law defined as Mosaic sacraments and the Mosaic law do not infer justification by faith alone. Firstly, Abraham was justified by faith connected to hope (Rom 4:18) and love (Rom 5). And the Mosaic law rescinded at Pentecost and the Jerusalem council is replaced by the law of Christ which anulls specific Mosaic laws, but elevates the 10 commandments to a high interior manifestation in the sermon on the mount.
An irony of faith alone theology is biblical faith involves a spousal covenant union with the divine bridegroom within the covenant. Faith is never framed by a courtroom scene and never portrayed as an instrument circumstantially contextualised by any great exchange occurring at the atonement. Justification by faith presumes divine love already infused (Rom 5) within the new covenant sacraments.
Abraham's specific justification really had nothing directly associated with Abraham's sin but rather the present trial of Arbaham's delayed inheritance granted through Isaac contextually portrayed by Abraham and Sarah's dead bodies. Abraham's sins were only indirectly associated with justification secondary to the explicit problem resolution of Yahweh keeping his promise to grant Abraham's descendents and Abraham's inheritance.
The typical exegesis of Romans 4 central to the reformed understanding of justification by faith alone ignores the covenant context of Abraham's faith and the new covenant context of the Christian's justification. St Paul says the gospel founded upon the law and the prophets (Rom 3:21) which therefore must include all the prominent prophetic promises including the new Exodus, new creation, restoration of Israel, ingathering of the nations, and great tribulation - all of which are completely ignored by exegetes when examining Rom 3:21-4:25.
The typical exegesis of Romans 4 central to the reformed understanding of justification ignores the covenant context of Abraham's faith and the new covenant context of the Christian's justification. St Paul says the gospel founded upon the law and the prophets (Rom 3:21) which therefore must include all the prominent prophetic promises including the new Exodus, new creation, restoration of Israel, ingathering of the nations, and great tribulation - all of which are completely ignored by exegetes when examining Rom 3:21-4:25.
I just wanted to confirm something you stated @ 33:26
Were you saying either of the following;
"Adam being offered the coats of skins was common grace?"
or
"Adam laying hold of, and putting on the coats of skins was common grace?"
Can you please confirm what you were meaning by the statement concerning common grace...
Thanks
Amen, Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
What many term "progressive sanctification" is simply a growth of the new nature, wherein the believer is perfectly conformed to Christ ; growth occurs because one is sanctified, and the result is a greater knowledge of Christ and ones sinfulness. The believer however retains the old nature in which dwelleth no good thing. This old nature does not change and in this sense even the believer has that "child of wrath" flesh until death ; we have sin, but we are holy as God only views His people in that eternal union with Christ.
Are definitive sanctif. and positional sanctif. the same thing?
That’s what I assume
Lane is missing one of the volumes of Bavinck’s dogmatics on his shelf! Call me a nerd
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ or Father in us. The trinity it's the true heresy God always been one and never three and HE BECOME FLESH. and now in dwell in is by is Holy Spirit . The trinitarian have destroy the greatest commandment.
The Bible is a Catholic book ❤️
Everything these reformed theologians say is thoroughly Catholic except the reformation errors they impose upon the text.
@@MrJohnmartin2009 "We call ourselves
Catholics, not Papists. We, who strive to uphold the ancient faith, are the true Catholics; and they, who have departed from it, have fallen away from the Catholic faith."
- John Calvin
THE LIFE HE LIVED QUALIFIES HIM FOR THE DEATH HE DIED
THE DEATH THAT HE DIED QUALIFIES YOU TO RECEIVE THE LIFE THAT HE LIVED
Maj. I Thomas , ❤Grain of Wheat
@@langer747 Church history until the reformation is thoroughly Catholic with all the Catholic distinctive beliefs and practices well documented in the church fathers and church councils. John Calvin was a rank heretic who invented his own version of Christianity based upon his own pride. there is no salvation outside the Catholic church and therefore it's highly likely Calvin did not go to heaven.
Calvin, like all the reformers had a false theology of the church, denied church infallibility and the seven sacraments, making the reformation a significant deformation of the full gospel only found in the Catholic church.
High quality reformed scholarship hides the many and various irresoluble problems with the reformation particularly on the theological import and authority of the church and her convoked councils under the Papacy.
The Papal keys of David were universally acknowledged by the church fathers as having primacy over the church contrary to the false eisegesis of the reformers and the false principle of private interpretation. Reply - Jesus, Peter & the Keys: A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy provides ample historical evidence for the western fathers acceptance of the Catholic Papacy. www.amazon.com/Jesus-Peter-Keys-Scriptural-Handbook/dp/1882972546
Another source presents evidence for east and western fathers acknowledging the Papacy. Speaking of the book - Keys Over the Christian World, . . . Sources include those from the original Latin, Greek, Chaldean, Syriac, Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian and others. With these sources, the authors weave together a tapestry of the papacy that shows, without the shadow of a doubt, that the Church recognized the papacy from its humble beginnings in 33 AD throughout the first millennium to be the God-ordained supreme authority over the whole Church, from east to west. . .
catholicintl.blogspot.com/p/store.html#!/Keys-Over-the-Christian-World-2nd-ed-PDF/p/473223642/category=1475245
@@langer747 The life received by the sacraments within the Catohlic church.
A great conversation.
Everything stated is thoroughly Catholic except the reformed claim about justification by faith alone and references to the reformed catechisms.
The entire bible is a liturgical document used in sacramental worship. Therefore justification by faith is a sacramental encounter with the divine bridegroom in the Eucharist and not the alien righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer within a courtroom setting dictated by penal substitution theory.
If Dr Beale was a complete exegete he would note the sacramentality of St Paul's gospel and exegete the letters sacramentally framed by the new Exodus, new creation, new covenant and restoration of Israel. Beale's reformated non sacramental presumptions prevent him from providing any substantial exegesis of St Paul faithful to his fuller sacramental intent. St Paul was a Catholic bishop with a sacramental gospel and not a reformed believer in a denomination without reference to the seven sacraments.
The new Exodus is only fully realised by eating the Passover lamb only available in the Eucharist simultaneously obtaining the faithful's access to the throne of grace united to the heavenly sanctuary where Jesus continues as a priest forever offering the Eucharistic sacrifice. Without the Eucharist there is no complete Passover or fulfillment of John 6, or sanctuary fulfillments of the high priest offering sacrifice presented to the heavenly altar.
Jesus ascended into heaven and the Spirit descended at Pentecost granting a miraculous representation of the divine presences at the Eucharistic liturgy. The apostles celebrated the Eucharistic breaking of bread imitating the prior Pentecost miracle granting the new Exodus Passover with the new covenant Eucharist. The Pentecost event melds the visible and invisible divine missions through miracles and sacraments mutually verifying each other, both manifesting the divine power.
The fullness of the Catholic gospel is found in the catechism of the Council of Trent and the Catholic catechism. You will all be judged by the Catholic Jesus at death according to the Catholic gospel and without access to the Eucharist there is no claim to fulfill John 6, or have justification by faith in Jesus really present within the Eucharist.
Kind regards and always in my prayers for you all.
God bless.
@MrJohnmartin2009
The notion that Paul was a Westminsterian Reformed Christian is of course silly, but it is also laughable that you think he was a Trentian Catholic bishop. That is astonishingly historically naive. The truth of the matter is the apostolic and early church simply did not nicely fit into our precise little categories, but that does not mean that codifying what we believe into counsels and confessions is an error. The Church is still being built and still growing up into maturity and that’s okay. We lean on the giants of the past and try to hold to their traditions and beliefs as best as we can insofar as we can see it from scripture. I happen to agree with you that the sacraments really are far more important than the average baptistic evangelical believes, but I am far more comfortable trusting in Christ’s righteousness as covering me and commending me to God’s judgement than AT ALL thinking that my deeds have anything to do with commending me in His sight.
To exegete the NT sacramentally, is to come to the NT with your conclusions, and force the text into them. Therefore, not really exegesis.
@@tjkhan4541 The sacraments are presumed throughout the text as normative instruments of uniting God with His covenant people and remembering redemptive history. Every text is presumptively sacramental as a spousal love letter to the covenant bride from the divine bridegroom. To ignore the sacramentality of the biblical text is to ignore the sacramental depth of the text and divine intent to spousally unite himself to the faithful.