Jim Harper's Proto 48 Model Railroad of the Sacramento Northern and the Southern Pacific.
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Back to the Color Country Model Railroad Club open house at Saint George Utah and a revisit to Jim Harper's Proto 48 layout of the Southern Pacific and the Sacramento Northern.
We have visited Jim's railroad in the past but no Color Country open house would be complete without a visit to this AMAZING railroad. The layout depicts the Sacramento area in the 1950s and the junction between the electric Sacramento Northern and the Southern Pacific.
We have been doing the series on Tuesday's shows on scale and gauge in a model railroad. 0 scale, better known as O scale is a 1/48 scale (1/4" scale) and a track gauge of 1.25". This makes the gauge five feet, which is wrong for standard gauge railroads that are 4 feet 8 and 1/2 inches. While most people accepted the error, others wanted to improve the situation. One "fix" was to make the trains 1/47 scale so the track gauge was correct. Also known as Q scale or SMO scale. Another fix was to keep the 1/48 scale but make the gauge correct 1.77 inches. The wheel shape is also rebuilt to a proper 5.5" width with a scale flange.
More on all of this on the Tuesday show!
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Sacramento Northern Railroad is an often overlooked gem of a railroad.
Indeed. !!!
Come by the Western Railway Museum-main keeper of the SN flame.
@@craigtorso we did a few years ago. Amazing. Well… over 7 years ago.
@@craigtorso ruclips.net/video/s0lEJlpwV-k/видео.html
@@ToyManTelevision Great video! Next time you’re in the Bay Area, let’s get you back here with some fellow volunteers and our new ED to show you around all the back corners and get some finer detailed show and tell time in!
Absolutely Amazing how these talented people build these model railroads. The attention to detail is out of this world 🌎.
The track work… geeezzz.
P48 is absolutely magnificent.
The actual gauge for P48 is 1.177 where as 'conventional' O is 1.250, which is a hold-over from early 20th century toy train track standards. In the era before WW2, there was an attempt to correct the incorrect ratio between 1/4" to the foot and the track gauge of 1.250"
by modeling in a slightly larger scale of 17/64" to the foot. The slightly larger models corrected the ratio error and allowed the track on existing layouts to remain untouched. After WW2 there was a brief few years where 17/64" continued to be offered, but the ease of converting using 1/4" had its appeal, and for most people the slight wide gauge made little difference. The NMRA also published new wheel standards that encouraged all manufacturers to use tread and flange dimensions that were consistent to one another but slightly oversize. Because 1.250 of the track gauge is 5 scale feet in 1/4" scale, this standard has now become known as Ow5, O for the scale, w for wide, and 5 for 5 feet. This follows the same naming convention for On3, O scale, n for narrow gauge, and 3 for 3 feet. Decades later someone decided to use HO track with O scale to provide low cost mechanisms, but rather than follow the convention of naming in feet, which would have been 2-1/2, they used inches and came up with a confusing On30.... which should have been On2-1/2. By the way, the only prototype 30" gauge railways are in Australia and Asia, non in North America. There is no accurate prototype for all those American style locos and cars in On30, they are a "fun and whimsey" creation
Well 30” was rare in America but is was here and there. My favorite is the Cresent Tramway. Part of the Silver King mines in Park City. The depot still stands and grade is easy to find. I thought the Gilpen Tram was but now I’m thinking 24”. Anyone know?
Remarkable! It really speaks to Jim’s effort and commitment.
I’m always blown totally away ❤
Thanks for the compliment.
When commenting on your "Gauge and scale" videos, I mentioned "Proto 48". This is the railroad I had in mind when I mentioned "Proto 48". I had seen a short video about the Sacramento Northern portion (maybe it was one of yours) several years ago.
Clearly, much is scratch built, some highly modified, especially the wheel trucks. This is where model railroading becomes an art form, not just a hobby. ;-)
Yup this is our third visit to Jim’s railroad. Always amazing. Always Learn something new. See something new.
That's a real nice hidden masterpiece. Thanks for showing this one.
A dazzling array of great stuff. Overhead electrification sometimes strikes my eye as too "model-ish" but not with this layout, looks fantastic! Artists at work here from the figurines to the palm trees.
Love the green copper overhead wire.
That diffently has a GREAT WOW FACTOR. To see the detailing from train to track to landscape to figures is beyond compare. This is one to inspire to be like. This is an art form not just a railroad. Thank you so much for this one.
GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖
Thanks again!!!!!!
: OUTSTANDING such detail :
All Aboard may the rails be with us.
🐢 🚂 🐢 🚂 🐢 🚂
Thanks!!!
That is fantastic, the detail is incredible. That's model engineering in it's pure form, it looks real.
I agree with you the early diesel units were the best looking rigs. I will always remember the early Great Northern units as proper diesels. You are right a proper train must have a caboose!
Thanks for bringing us along with you for ride, it's always enjoyable to ride along.
Hi Kriss! The early diesels are great. Well the covered wagons. And the turbines. Now the GPs and SEs are fine. The SDs are okay. But oh the covered wagons. My favorite is the F-7 and F-9. Almost identical. Well the F-3 is dang nice too.
@@ToyManTelevision I know you are a locomotive traction engine aficionado, you know the little things that set the different models apart from one another. Myself I'm not and I don't mind saying that. But having grown up Blaine Washington where the Great Northern main north-south line runs along the south and west side of town you remember the engines pulling through the intersections.
There would be two or three freight trains a day going north and south most of the week. And the passenger train was two or three day a week I think it was, of course this was the early 60s
My two favorite railroad! Sacramento northern and the southern pacific 👍 love this gentleman’s Railroad I’ve seen it before in featured videos of yours and I just absolutely can’t get enough of it. Thank you so much for sharing😃
Jim Harper is awesome, I owe him a lot. He helped me when I was getting into the hobby some 25 years ago, teaching, giving advice, and all around enjoyed his hobby shop. He’s definitely a great modeler. His talent level is beyond what I can imagine. Thanks Dale/Karyn for visiting Jim and his layout, I get to see it when you stop by...
Neato ❤
So in Reno I assume?
Yes, from salt lake, grew up in Salina ut, I share your affinity with the V&T being in Reno. I guess Jim made quite an impression on me. Love your shows ,educational & entertaining…
You have a great rest of your evening.
Thank you Dale
i really enjoy the traction, having run a few full size SN equipment, and I have a couple O 2-rail traction models, that are set up to run off the overhead. I also have a small collection of O 2-rail equipment, from when I used to belong to a club that had O 2-rail. O 2-rail is closer to scale than anything from the 3-rail O that most people think of. Proto 48 takes the scale thing to a different level. that layout is absolutely gorgeous.
O two rail is all over the place. 1/48 large flange, small flange, 1/45 scale, 1/43.5 scale, mostly with large flanges. But I love it!!!!
@@ToyManTelevision it's one of my favorite scales and gauges. having dabbled in standard gauge, plus On3, and On30, and was thinking about On18, but had to stop it all when I moved a couple years ago and quit going to the club I used to belong to, a sad story. but in other bad habits I started 7/8 scale live steam!! LOL
Simply fabulous! True artistry... quite a talented family it seems! Thanks for sharing you two 😻😻
It’s amazing right?
Love Jim's layout. I miss being part of the club, but I moved to Salt Lake City
We miss you Chance.
@@jamesharper4797 I miss you guys as well.
Just exquisite. One of the best model railroads I have ever seen.
Us too. Just art.
Wow!!! PROTO:48!!! My favorite scale!!! Whatta masterpiece!!! I could watch these trains on Jim Harper's layout 24/7!!! 😁 I LOVE the Sacramento Northern steeple cab with the pantograph extended. I LOVE traction!!! I was slightly disappointed not seeing much traction here. I guess Jim is not much into electrified-running equipment. But, that's okay...I truly enjoyed seeing this layout just because it's proto: 48 regardless of the type of equipment running on it. Dale, I don't consider proto:48 an "oddball" scale. I think the other O scale is oddball. Proto:48 is "perfect" O scale. 👍😉 I am so impressed with Jim Harper's layout I've become a fan of his now. I like and agree with what he says here. 👉 02:59. I am so glad you did this show. I really enjoyed it. Do more on proto:48 in the future. Thanks for this episode!!! So long! 👋😊
Hi again!!!!! Yes unfortunately the Sacramento Northern is small. About 20 feet of mainline. And the yard. Sigh… it’s my favorite part though.
I’d read about Proto 48 for decades but never saw much of them in photos and no videos. Thank you folks for this.
Hi again and THANKS AGAIN.
Very impressive, I need to get on with working on mine
Build!!
I had the opportunity to see that railroad and it was anot amazing railroad. So ,much detail. Glad you featured the railroad.
Thanks for watching!! Yup amazing.
Very very cool and I can't thank enough for bringing us along this series has been a great watch as all your videos are but I truly love looking at the different railroads that folks have thank you again for bringing some of them to us. 🙂Thomas over at The Model Hobbyist
Hi again!!! Thanks!! Thank very much!
spectacular artistry
I’ve been so inspired I’ve changed how I’m building our railroad.
Ultra high quality.
Right!
Thanks Toy Man TV. Jim's layout is inspiring in its level of scale fidelity. That SP Mk class looks great and runs flawlessly. Operating models of electric traction are always nice to see.
I love steam. But great models of traction.. well… love that too
This is one heck of a layout! These folks have taken years to reach this point of perfection.
And they moved it here!! It was built in Reno like 40 years ago and moved 500 miles to Saint George.
What a beautiful model railroad!
It sure is!
Very nice layout and YES There's something to be Said about the Transition years 1st Gen Diesels were sometimes Wildly Kwel like Take Turbines someday I have a Steam..Turbine too
Yup. The GPS and SDs not as much.. but the covered wagons!! The turbines!! Even the SWs. Nice!! Well…. The GPS don’t suck… but the Fs are better. I think.
He has done some excellent work, what a beautiful railroad thanks for sharing P.S. when it comes to trains you guys have a one track mind
Tomorrow we are narrow minded.
thank you for all the great places you have shared . thanks also to jim ,such an excellent rail road ! happy holidays . C'ya.
Thanks 🙏
Alex, nice to hear from you. i miss seeing your Dad and family. Happy New Year.
@@jamesharper4797 thanks for the come back. if you still have dad's address you could drop a card ?
Graet Show Guys!!!
Thanks!!
Amazing Layout!!
I think so too!
3:47 There’s the model of old timer Southern Pacific 1744 again. Like I said back then, the locomotive is currently at the Niles Canyon Railway in Sunol, California undergoing restoration for the return of operation. I hope to see it steam again at the Niles Canyon Railway soon.
I have footage of it double heading with UP 616 in Heber Utah.
@@ToyManTelevision Are you planning on putting it on RUclips, or do you already done it?
@@nathancorcoran5347 yup. At some point. Need to digitize my old tapes. Many done. Many more to do.
@@ToyManTelevision ok.
Magnificent!
Hi again!!
The scale wheels make such a difference.
One would think not that much. Until you see it. Wow!
That was neat. Thank you for sharing!
More soon. Jim sold the layout. And we are off to the last operating session in two weeks. Then the layout will be carefully dismantled and moved to Oregon.
Happy New years Dale and Karyn I just had a beautiful interesting drive In My 18-wheeler from Green River all the way up West 6 and 191 north going through something called price canyon Utah coal country according to the roadside signs I seen occasionally on the shoulder I thought it was a beautiful drive-thru there minus the snow I don't know much about that area so I thought I'd leave you a message.
Thanks for the video
You are so welcome 🙏
Karyn, there is country, and there is countryside!
If you get a chance to travel to Portland Oregon in November during the weekends the Columbia Gorge Model Railway has an open house with a possible upgrade to see the entire layout it is worth the trip
Love to do that! We love the steam meet in Brooks. In August? I think. Love the area.
@@ToyManTelevision November is the open house don't forget the cameras
Wow! That was great.
Thanks 🙏!!
That is a wonderful thing. Thanks for show it. I've got to get down there myself. I've thought of going Proto87 but I think it has less of an effect than Proto48. In HO, reliability often trumps ultra accuracy. Love it though. Awesome.
Proto 87 isn’t much different than HO. Nothing like Proto 48. But still interesting.
Oh my garsh 😱 🎅
Yup. That sums it up.
Not sure if you've filmed this layout before, or someone else did, but I have seen it before. However, my socks were still blown off. It's just so perfect
Yup third time! I have links in the video. We visit every year!
Please return to Ralph's fabulous layout for another video
Need to
I had a frend that modeled in O scale he Start in the 1960 he had a Max Gray big boy the locomotive that was olny 26 pounds and the tender was olny 5 pounds.
Wow!!!! I’ve seen those. I have a 1:20.3 K36 that weighs about 45 pounds. Hard to set on the track!!
I am so amazed at this layout. How many lifetimes of work are here? I live within walking distance of the Sacramento Northern way. The alignment is now just a walking path. My turn up the hill every day is right where the tunnel through the hill from Oakland to Contra Costa County. I wish the low pass tunnel was kept open for cyclists and walkers. Would save about a 800' climb up the hill to get over the pass. This is the only modeling of the RR or equipment I've seen. Thanks so much. Did he scratch build the cars and locos? I am also in awe of the bridges which look to be period correct design. What amazes me the most is the detail to everything rather than good track or good trains or whatever. Here the focus seems to be everything. Is this accessible outside of open house?
Jim May jump in here. But it’s open in mid November most years. Other than that I don’t know. Jim?
Once you have that video out on this type of gage, you should put a link to it in this video so people who watch this afterwards can see the scale video right away on it right away
Yup. In fact I’m editing now. Long interview with Jim on the scale and gauge.
What's the min radius on this layout and what is used to control it?
Hi. Not sure on the radius. Just looking I’d guess around 72” (1.8 meters) DCC control. But don’t know the brand.
I saw that y’all had to do the limbo in some parts
He had a rolling chair. But I tend to fall off it.
Should that be 1.17 inches?
Yes, 1.177***inches, or 29.8** mm.
Hard pressed to tell whether it's 1/48 or 1/1 scale.
Yes indeed!!!
hey toyman go on youtube and check outbill everet's trolly layout he scrached built the whole layout and over 5000 trollies I thought Jim Harpers proto 48 was a stupendous layout and he did it to the t exalactally in the pacific electric books that I have in my possetion come back to me on that and bill hoffmans 600 trollies in model railroaders 85 or 86 I don't remember which
Wow. That’s AMAZING. THANKS!!