As a former dealer technician, I thoroughly enjoy watching them close-up shop and go under. I laugh at every job posting from a dealer. It's obvious they don't even look around at what other opportunities people have. My last dealer couldn't find an oil change guy to save their life. Then fired me when I told them "A greeter at Walmart starts at $14 an hour and you people think you're going to sucker someone into this trade for $12?! You'd have to be a politician to be any more out of touch with reality." lol
The automotive repair Industry is so behind the ball when it comes to paying people what they're worth. Flat rate will kill you, most techs at the dealership I was at would put in 40+hrs just to turn 30 hours. On top of that, you'll never meet an old mechanic who has a body that isn't beaten and broken. I'm so glad I got out of the Industry.
Let me guess, they claim they can't find anyone because "people don't want to work" and/or "people would rather stay home and collect welfare". I'm retired oilfield. The first time I heard the latter it was from a company that had a whole crew on a well quit. They hadn't paid them for all the hours they worked. The funniest was a gate guard who used to have a trucking company. He nickeled and dimed his drivers (Class A CDL w/ Hazmat endorsement) so they all quit and went to work for other companies and told everyone they knew, including at the driving schools, to avoid that company. He also claimed that two of his neighbors were "welfare queens" who "sat around all day and did nothing" and had pictures of them. One was the derrick man working days that hitch on that rig, the other worked the kitchen at the truck stop I picked up breakfast from on the way to work.
Corporate greed...... Companies exist to make money so you can't get hissy for them for doing what they can, if you don't like it don't be the guy that funds them, it's not that complicated, these companies that have made so much on top of RRP haven't done it because everyone's car happened to fail at the same time and most people who bought a good car pre covid only bought a new one now because they were able to get such a good price for selling their last one on..... If you don't like it don't buy it, if it happens without you then it's not your fault or your problem so stop complaining.
@@Alex-md6bu but the issue is that (at least in America) Cars are a necessity for work and making money. And before you say we can make money online and never ned to leave the house. not everyone has the internet or the desire to work at home. and Even still, some companies are still doing in person interviews. so getting a car can be treated like getting a degree. you don't explicitly need one but your life definitely isn't getting easier if you dont get one.
@@burnttoastbrain let's not pretend that it is physically impossible to get a cheaper car, you're just not going to get as much car for your money people struggling to get a job aren't the same people paying 10k over sticker for a bronco
What sponsors would want them to stay silent? Dealerships? lmao. Yeah, sure there's Ford possibly feeding into the dealer markup fiasco and they did call it out.
Finally being a fair small family dealer is paying off. Pretty sure I work at the smallest dodge dealer in the entire nation and had the hardest time keeping local clients business and tax dollars local. Now it's the opposite...I'm sending trucks to Reno, Oregon, and even met a client at airport that flew in from Mesa Az. Only because im not marking up vehicles thousands over MSRP. Hopefully my clients remember this when bigger dealers start giving away vehicles at zero profit again
good for you man!!! I was literally telling myself, if a local dealer of mine here gives me a hassle when I'm trying to get my gladiator I'll tell them I'll just fly out somewhere and drive it home cheaper 🤷♂️🤷♂️ dummies. Do they think we don't know they get their units under msrp, then charge another 10k on top the msrp that people aren't gonna be upset?
@@APolishPlayer next time you get a jeep and if they try to price gouge you, fly here to toledo ohio. It's where the gladiator and wrangler are made. You'll get the best prices in the country for new and used (there are tonsss of jeeps here). Also if you like the jeep culture I suggest checking out the jeep fest next year! It's happening this weekend but every jeep owner I know loves going
I'd say your local customers will be the most loyal if that ever happens, if you guys do maintenence and keep it fairly priced while doing good work you'll have way more people lining up over time to buy and or service their vehicles. Best of luck to you!
And surprise surprise... manufacturers realize that price gouging is actually much, much less profitable when it's this extreme. It's almost like there's a reason they carefully pick an MSRP for pretty much every vehicle.
Ignoring that 1. Manufacturers created dealerships. 2. Dealerships lobbied the government, and payed millions in public campaigns to make people like them 3. dealerships basically wrote the law to solidify that cars needed to be sold through them seems pretty backward to blame the government for just enforcing what dealers (and the general public) decided they wanted
I recently went to a local Hyundai dealership and test drove an Elantra SEL and was prepared to drive away that night. I asked for price and they had a $3k markup PLUS $2k in "after-market upgrades" that were "non-negotiable". Price was $6k over MSRP by the time you added it all up. They of course asked "What can we do to make this deal happen tonight?" I said I wanted to buy the car at MSRP. I was basically laughed out of the dealership because I wanted the car at MSRP. I'm going to quote another comment because they said it perfectly. "Dealerships need to end. It's a model no longer servicing the US."
I got the 21 Elantra limited under MSRP 7 months ago. I would say you should pass on it. Mine has been nothing but trouble. The infotainment system seems to keep crashing which seems to be a common problem. Mine also had the radiator fail and start leaking due to bad welds, it took almost a month for my car to get fixed and back to me.
I bought a Tuscon for my wife 2 weeks ago and my local dealership was pulling the same bs. Luckily I found a dealership an hour away in the country that would sell at msrp, only thing they hit me with was 400 for window etching.
Dealers marking up harms the manufacturers brand, period. If you can't get the amazing new car or truck a manufacturer made at the amazing price they've made it for, it ceases to be an amazing deal.
@@marcelohendrix6139 in my opinion, this “exclusivity” doesn’t feel exclusive, it’s just blatant greed from car dealerships. Knowing MSRP, I’d never pay an insane markup for a car that simply isn’t worth that price. Everyone always says a car is the worst investment someone can buy, so why the hell would I spend an extra 5-15k on the worst investment of my life? That’s how I see it anyways
@@marcelohendrix6139 Dealers flat out killed the Focus RS. Subaru dealers have tremendously hurt their brand image with the arrogance of treating all Subaru's like Ferrari's that cannot be touched until purchased. People have some blame because they should refuse to pay 1 penny more than MSRP, but dealers are turning into scum that should be kicked out of the USA forever.
@@marcelohendrix6139 it's incredibly stupid to pay more just to be exclusive, imo. Not just for cars, but for watches, clothes, handbags, etc as well I think. I'm not looking for exclusivity, I'm looking for a good cheap car.
I actually had to buy a car recently and I was gobsmacked by prices, dealer mark ups, and lack of inventory (my local Subaru dealership had eight cars on the lot). That’s when I discovered that Genesis had a direct to customer model via their website. I built my new G70 on the website, paid my deposit, had the car delivered to my driveway by their Experience Manager and paid sticker price for my car after a 45 minute orientation. I’m not a big fan of Teslas, but they created the buying experience of the future that other car companies like Genesis are starting to emulate. They even gave me a discount for switching from BMW and threw in a set of winter tires on rims.
"I don't even like going online and looking at cars anymore". Man, this line really hit home for me, and it's not just looking on autotrader or online auction websites, I'm actually slowly losing interest in the hobby as a whole because I often feel discouraged and find myself reading less articles and watching less videos about new products I won't be able to afford. I wonder if sites like cars and bids have seen major dips in traffic to go along with the increasing amount of auctions ending in reserve not met? I mean don't get me wrong, i still enjoy driving and taking care of what i currently own, but those dreams of "the next car I buy" are really fizzling out quickly. Between the current inflation situation on pretty much every daily necessity and what's happened to both new and used car prices, I just can't imagine having that kind of expendable cash anymore. It's funny to think 2-3 years ago I was seriously debating on trying to find a used Porsche, and now I'm just wishing i could find a nice used tacoma for a reasonable price I can then drive for the rest of my life.
Couldn't relate more, I'm a 16 year old who has saved for his whole life, finally got enough money, then car prices for the car I'm interested in literally doubled. I'm screwed
Man, I feel that, every time I take a look around for anything, my standards keep getting lower and lower, to the point where I start thinking about just putting a turbo and suspension in my 2014 grand caravan. (The only vehicle I own)
I bet the traffic has actually gone up, for exactly the same reason. Those of us wanting to see "what car that was once a decent buy for $20k a year and change ago is now selling for $35k sight unseen?!" still go there. Nolans Focus RS example is a good...example...of that. If I knew my '17 RS would be worth as much now as I paid for it, or even more than I paid for it I would've kept it. Or the E34 M5 I replaced it with in 2020. Alright, I'm going to go cry now...
If you can hold then in about 2 years the market will reverse, so many people will have an overpriced vehicle that only a car crushing company will purchase. Manufacturers aren't crazy, they're pumping out more cars now than ever before, that along with demand being stupidly higher than ever makes for a perfect saturated market storm when supply drops back to normal or slightly below normal as its wxpected since everyone had a new car that previously never would have. They've been back above pre covid rates since July 2021, sure they'd pump out more if they could.
Planet Ford in Spring Texas makes so much, the owner and the GM have brand new for GTs (GT 40) sitting in the dealership worth a couple million. Its their personal cars. And they just sit there all day behind ropes. These dealers make literally tens of millions on scamming people. There is NO WAY they move enough vehicles at reasonable rates and interest to earn the profits they do. Doesn't hurt employees get paid commission and like shit.
Worked for a dealer group called MCE automotive in the accounting department. Saw a new Kia Soul deal come through with a $12,000 profit on the front end and another $7,000 profit on the back end. When I confronted the CFO he said “they should’ve shopped harder.” At the same time I was getting paid $36,000 a year, the dealers son went and bought his wife a brand new Bentley continental GT. Total slime balls
I’d love to see dealerships taken out of the loop. As someone who worked as a salesman for years I can tell you they’re absolute crooks. My dad bought an MGB straight from the factory when he lived in England in the 60’s. He shook the hands of the men who built his car. He always said that was one of the greatest automotive experiences of his life.
that’s the British spirit back in the day, almost every small British company (especially those who focus solely on sports cars like MG, Triumph, and Lotus) had that kind of sales model. Probs because they didn’t have much money, but it added to the character and buying experience even though their reliability…. wasn’t exactly the best.
@@devandrasimanjuntak1646 I had an MG Midget in high school in the 90’s. It’s sounds odd to say but the unreliability made you more aware of the vehicle and driving experience. You’d set off on a drive and you could tell something just wasn’t right. Something odd in the steering or a tiny hesitation in acceleration. You would become an expert of your own car. It’s unlike any modern car I’ve driven. I’m sure someday soon I’ll get a B or Midget again and all the knowledge I’ve forgotten about them will come back.
I was just working in a Ford Dealership owner’s office and witnessed a very heated conversation between the owner and a corporate rep on this exact topic. It was crazy to hear it first hand.
Just received my Bronco and while the wait was long, it was an overall good experience with my dealer. The dealership honored the price agreement we made when I first put in my reservation (slightly under MSRP, and if I hadn't of made that deal would of sold at MSRP). I also got from Ford over $2K worth of freebies for the wait ($1k in a consumer satisfaction program my dealer opted into, and $1.1K worth of their Ford Pass points to use how I see fit). In fairness, my dealer said that if I had walked away, they probably would of sold my Bronco for $15k over sticker. At the same time, there were plenty of early buyers of the Bronco who bought it and drove straight to Carmax to make a quick $20k.
kinda crazy how when this sort of stuff happens the government is totally silent, yet when I try to make a little side hustle cash they start crying and moaning about taxes, absolutely ridiculous.
In 2017 I walked into my local Ford looking to buy a Focus RS, ended up seeing all of them with a 10k markup. It's a shame such greed from dealers let to it's eventual demise.
When I bought my Golf-R, I had the same treatment as that of the Ford Focus RS. I wasn't allowed to test drive it, no dealer would allow it. In addition, markups were common. I had to fly 500 miles away and drive the car home in order to get one at MSRP. I found one that was mistakenly listed for below MSRP, and the dealer said that in order for them to honor it I would have had to fly 300 miles THAT DAY. This was in 2016. So it's not just the RS, a lot of specialty cars had this problem. I also had a dealership call me 3 months after I'd bought mine saying that one of their salespeople was fired for incompetence (he literally couldn't spell), and wanted to know if there was any way they could get my business back... Dealerships need to end, it's a model that's no longer serving the US.
How you like the R? Funny you said that because I literally talked A good friend into doing that when he got his mark6 R new. Flew south bought for msrp and drove back to NY.
They called you back 3 months later? That just screams to me, that that dealer has no idea what they are doing. It also tells me that no one came to buy the car and they're probably coming up with excuses with the whole the other guy was incompetent at selling cars story. Although, if the car did sit until this year or so, it probably sold for even more because of what's going on right now. So it ended up working out for them in the long run.
@@pdotc The R is the best vehicle I've owned. It's a 2016 model and it's just now out of warranty so it's getting old, but my feelings for it are a cross between a beloved pet and a best friend. It goes everywhere with me, we've been through a lot (including *cough* an accident). It's my daily driver, grand tourer, family hauler, and everything in between. It's a snow bunny in the winter, and a monster on the track.
At the end of my three year lease on an 18 Rav-4 Adventure, my buyout price was 18,000. We went to the dealer to sign paperwork and they said it was 25,000. Long story short, I got my own financing and purchased my lease directly from Toyota for exactly 18,000. Dealers are the worst.
Thank you for calling out Ford on the Bronco shenanigans. I think a lot of lightning buyers are going to realize the "reservation" bait and switch too. I don't believe for one second that Ford is serious about punishing their dealers for ADMs. Whatever they say, their actions always somehow turn out as a benefit for those same dealers who are marking up their vehicles.
@B some people only need a car for a short period of time due to work putting them in another country for just a couple years, or for college. Some people drive low mileage and are able to combine incentives to drive new cars for low money. Some people have shit credit. All of these things a lease are great for (which come with warranty, gap insurance, and often maintenance included). Some people have the means to get a car that hasn't been farted in yet, and if they have the means and want a new car, then sure, why not buy new? A lot of dealerships invest repairs and maintenance that crappy car owners skip and then warranty used cars. Putting the time, money, and a guarantee on something not everyone has the time, patience, or knowledge to even check for. To have a used car market.... new cars have to come from somewhere. To state there is 0 reason for dealerships is silly, just becasue there are flaws, or because you personally enjoy making person to person transactions It's like saying that buying a new phone is stupid. The used phones have to come from somewhere. It's a depreciating asset. Most people want a new one if they can get it. You can buy one from your friend. But a phone store is going to have accessories, services, and warranties that your friend doesn't have.
Tesla requires you to buy the $10K autopilot or they will tack 3 months onto your delivery. And months more if you want to buy a low spec car. Better yet, they are jacking up pricing while reporting lower production costs.
Nah this is happening because just enough people in the market are ready and willing to pay over MSRP for what cars are available. You see 5 grand over MSRP and think 'f that no way im paying over sticker'. Meanwhile the customer with a trade and average credit is getting just 2 grand less than he paid for his trade 3 years ago and low interest rates.
I test drove a Hyundai the other day. The sales guy spent the entire drive bragging that their “$7,000 markups and dealer add ons weren’t as bad as other dealer’s $20,000 markups.” He spent the entire time price anchoring, and I had to keep interrupting him to get any questions in about the car. Long story short, I didn’t buy the car.
@@andretsang7337 Hyundai has some great cars in their offerings. Not sure what you’re on about, unless you’re unaware that Hyundai isn’t the same car maker as it was in 2005. Those N cars are pretty sweet too
I can't believe the market this year. I bought my GTI new from the dealer in May 2020 for 7K off MSRP. Now it's worth way more than I even paid for it with 27k miles on it. What these dealers are doing now is pushing them out of business.
They're not even selling to people they're just sucking up auction inventory and pawning it off on eachother over and over. It's a straight up used car bubble lol.
Nolan and team! We love you for your honest videos and this is no exception!!! Low class and middle class lovers of automobiles are having their car hobby taken from them. I worked hard got a pretty good job and it's been 5 years. I still can't afford a sweet car new or used to play with because between fuel, food, and dealership markups it's making it sooooo hard for people to get into racing that aren't born into it.
Exactly! I'm finally at a point in my life where I thought I'd be able to get into the car stuff I've dreamed of, but its more and more unattainable as the years pass. Makes me so depressed. I'll just never be able to afford it :(
@@jbnnm657 glad you could save a few of them so 10 years from now they will still be here for us to point to and show our kids how sick cars used to be.
Donut, I love you guys because you guys put the spotlight on so many things that are affecting not only enthusiasts but literally everyone in the market for a vehicle. You guys are in a very unique position where you have the Social Media presence, the knowledge and the wherewithal to actually present this to the government to make a significant change. The people need YOU guys to help gather together a movement to abolish the laws that prevent manufacturers from dealing directly with consumers. As long as they stick with MSRP then dealerships have more incentive to be more competitive in the market instead of being predatory. Please consider the massive influence that you have to make a significant change for the entire automotive market.
I work at one of the only dealerships that has no mark-ups and has the lowest dealer fee of anyone in our zone. All of our fees are exactly the same as before the pandemic. The number one asked question from a potential customer is "how much is your mark-up?" Everyone is always shocked that we have no mark-ups.
Same at the dealership I work at. Unfortunately though, as we have basically no stock right now, last month was the first time I've made minimum wage in over 20 years. This month is looking bleak too 😒 I don't like markups either, but when a dealership has no stock, I can't really blame them "too" much for wanting to capitalize on the ones they have. The funny thing is, used car values have also gone up by around 30% yet buyers of privately sold used cars don't question the price increase. Everyone always blames the dealerships - *for good reason* but people also need to remember that not every dealership is that way, and we're generally just normal people trying to make an honest wage.
@@raymonds7492 definitely supply chain issue. Every company right now is experiencing issues right now. A perfect storm of -covid closures -chip manufacturers having gone bankrupt -transport problems And now the war This is a global problem that hasn't spared any company. (Though some manufacturers are doing better then others) Near me I've got about 7 other dealers from various makes, all of them are extremely low on stock. There's a Toyota dealer a couple minutes away that has a football field sized lot with like 10 cars in it. We've got about 6 new cars and about 14 used. Last year this time, we had about 75 cars.
This video is why I'm glad I took such an interest in mechanics at a young age, I saw that it was the one thing so many people had in common, the need for transportation and how their lives evolved around being able to maintain that transportation. I have saved myself countless thousands buying 15-60+ yr old vehicles, my current Jeep XJ is still saving me money, I have a 4 door manual 4x4 SUV, mint for 3k on the road, they tell you to use your head in schools but forget to tell you that using your hands is also beneficial
Yeah and you'll never need to sell it for less than like 4x that, too. My mechanic makes 6 figures just flipping shit off craigslist and only keeps his shop job to have access to the equipment even though it pays like crap. He'll probably have a more fun and interesting life than most people I know.
It’s kinda crazy that when someone is able to buy at just the sticker price their considered so lucky to have avoided AMV! It used to be that anyone buying/negotiating from the sticker price instead of dealer invoice, was a uninformed sucker!
I know a guy who would go back and forth between 2 dealerships and pretend the other dealership had offered the car for x amount and ask them to beat it. He would just make shit up lol. He'd go back and forth a few times and get his cars waaaay below msrp. That tactic probably wouldn't even work these days. Not that it's a very honest tactic to begin with lol.
That’s because msrp is already too high to begin with. It’s like saying you’re having a sale when you really just marked up the original price and used the original msrp as the sales price. So what they should be doing is charging msrp and not doing negotiable prices, instead of pretending that msrp is way too low (they still pay a fraction of msrp for inventory anyway, so they’re just cheating everyone). That would be the honest and correct thing to do, but since everyone thinks capitalism means being a predatory capitalist, thy see nothing wrong with it.
I tried to go look at a bronco last weekend that was actually in stock at my ford dealer. MSRP was 46k, and I asked what the markup was and they told me “just a standard $8,000 markup, that’s what we’ve done for everything”. I didn’t even know what to say lol
Donut Media, this is why you've exploded (in a good way). The majority of consumers can relate to you. We find comfort in knowing you guys get it and understand our struggles and frustrations. From one car enthusiast to another, thank you for keeping us informed and for leading the battle of consumers vs greedy dealers.
I myself have seen this problem first hand working as a technician for a dealership. A close friend of mine works for Toyota and tells me how some customers pay upwards of 10 grand mark ups for 4-runners. When you see how the cogs turn in this business it saddens you as a true enthusiast who just wants to see people buy a nice reliable machine at an affordable price. The worst part is that there’s no way around it since demand is inflating used car prices as well, it’s why it pays well to know your craft so you buy cheap and build something unique and useful with your own hands
I tried to explain this to people on Reddit complaining about car prices. Just get something cheap, older, reliable, not too hard to work on, take really good care of it, take some time to learn a little about vehicle maintenance, it’ll be worth it in the end. You wouldn’t believe how many downvotes I got. Feckin Reddit tards man.
$10,000 markup seems tame compared to what some are asking. Broncos are getting like $25,000+ markups. Mavericks are getting $15,000+ markups. It's freaking nuts out there.
I used to work in the car business in both sales and service, and currently work in real estate (not an agent). I think both industries are going to screw themselves over again like they did in ‘07-‘09. A lot of the problem is coming down to greed in my opinion.
It seems kind of inevitable some sort of crash will happen, maybe even a recession. I think the worst is yet to come, but because of that the best will arrive... maybe.
Greed in the absence of an alternative doesn't work long-term. But in both cases -- cars, real estate -- technology appears to be providing the solution. I listed my last house (2018) for sale on Zillow myself. I ran comps for similar homes for sale in the area myself, using Zillow. Then I put in the listing "paying buyer's agent 2%". Big surprise, no buyer's agent wanted to show my house. But the Denver housing market is so crazy that the buyers were looking themselves every day on Zillow for new listings. Mine pops up, the buyers themselves request a showing, they buy the house at asking price. I keep the extra 4%. I had one seller's agent call me asking to represent the house. "I average 102% of list price!" To which I replied: after your 3% fee, that's 99% of list price to me.
Thank you for doing this piece. I get frustrated with other car reviewers because they skirt around the markup issues and do nothing but try and sell more cars to their dealer friends!
Thanks for covering this topic! I been trying to spread the word in Texas not support Dealer mark ups. You know its the end of the world when a family has to pay $40K for a 2022 Honda Civic.
@@djmar6279 Apparently few days ago some youtuber who went to the Honda dealership in LA, found a standard 2021 Civic hatch for $45K, and 2022 Civic Si sedan for $50k
@@AHondaCivicEX same here, went to a Honda dealership and the civic "sport" was selling for 45k and the base model I was looking for was selling for 35k
@@yav1d yeah it got to the point that the manufacturers themselves "wanted" to put an end to the absolutely absurd vehicle markups set by the dealerships in the states
I bought a 2022 Civic Touring 7 months ago brand new for $29K as soon as it got off the truck to add to my rental fleet. I just sold it last week with 1OK miles to another dealer because he paid me $32K for it and he is now selling it for $35K USED! The dealer was desperate for inventory, the market is ridiculous right now.
With the closure of GM Holden here in Adelaide South Australia, I've seen my $3000 VS Caprice jump up to values over $12-15k in about 2 years. COVID tax and "exclusivity" are sending vehicle prices straight to HELL!!!!
Traded my 2018 Si sedan in this January and got OTD cost of $25k. 4 years of no paint care, 36k miles, minor cosmetic issues and the dealership still tries to sell my car for +$31,000. It's dropped down to $29k and still sitting on their lot. Definitely better to just buy new at this point. These dealerships are on another level.
the used car market in the US, carmax especially in my humble opinion are highway robberies. I don't know if its any better right now in foreign countries but last time I checked it was definitely better
I was lucky enough to buy a car mid 2020; and though it seemed crazy at the time, now I'm grateful I did. Dealers were desperate to sell cars at the time in my experience.
I recently ordered a Ranger and fortunately I was able to do so at MSRP, but my dealer told me they have to mark up the Bronco’s by thousands of dollars just to keep the lights on with how few shipments they’re getting. The empty lot makes me inclined to believe him but the prices make me glad I went with the ranger
The main problem is us, the consumer. We're the ones that keep buying despite the markups. At least most people are the problem. I can wait a few years.
I'm glad someone finally said it. I work for a dealer, people come to us to buy cars it's not like were making them purchase. I'm in a small town so i don't see much of this. This video is basically aimed at large dealers near large cities. Rual dealers are just are kinda vibing and stealing business from the bigger ones because we aren't charging OVER sticker.
Common pattern these days. "It's not fair that they do this to me... umm who do I write that check out to again?" Pretty darn simple to vote with your wallet and take your business elsewhere but nope. Had a coworker that would walk into a dealership, ask how much, and if the sales person wouldn't just tell him how much the car he was interested in cost he'd walk out the door. People act like most of us can't just wait.
I bought my 2017 Camaro SS in July of 2020 for an extreme discount. The out of state dealer I bought it from called me a couple weeks ago begging me to sell the car back to them after a year and a half. I laughed. I'm keeping this baby!
LMAO same i bought a challenger RT with the shaker package the same month and year and got a text from the dealership I bought it from seeing if would come in and trade my vehicle for another 😂
I am a car salesman for CDJR and Ford. With that being said our dealer does not charge over sticker unless it is a specialty vehicle…. But I will say the problem is really simple for the manufacturers. If they do not want dealers charging over MSRP then get us vehicles period. Right now we have only 15 new cars on the lot. What do they expect? You have salesman that are paid based on units sold. So you go from selling 15-20 cars a month to half that. What do we do? I have new are orders that customer’s have been waiting 3 months for with no real updates on when they will get there vehicle.
Coming from the uk, and having had great experiences buying directly from manufacturers for years, I find the US laws absolutely crazy. The people who build the cars are legally obligated to use a middleman. How did that become a thing? Having just ordered a new car, I’m paying exactly what the manufacturer is advertising it at.
Like most things here in the US, it was likely due to lobbying. I’m sure someone else could give you an exact reason why, but usually if there is something like this, it means someone paid the government enough for them to allow it to continue for so long. Clearly it doesn’t help anyone. But that’s just US politics in general - politicians here do what will push their agenda forward and make them the most money, not what’s best for the people.
Like everything in the US it was a cost saving measure. By passing the sales on to independent dealers car manufacturers saved money on not having to build out the dealer networks, staff them, stock them and sell them. When dealers realized how lucrative the model was they lobbied states to pass laws to not only make buying a car from a independent dealer the only way to buy a new car, but passed territory laws to prevent another dealer opening one within a certain distance. States don’t want to change these laws because the sales tax off car sales are their top revenue generator.
Because the USA was a totally different market. In many cases the dealers were the ones that fronted the money for the manufacturers to start delivering cars and manufacturing them. 100 years ago the turn around from ordering a vehicle and then having it built was 6 months or far longer. So dealers promised to buy from manufacturers sight unseen so they would have product to sell to the local people, and that gave manufacturers the cash they needed to have full assembly lines and systems to make vehicles actually affordable. At one point cars were so expensive the people that manufactured them could not even afford to buy them. But these contracts gave both parties serious liability so they went to their states congress to make sure the manufacturers could only sell according to the already signed contracts and not steal from the dealers. And that is just for manufacturers in the USA. Most imported cars were brought in and the money was to do so was given up front by dealers. And not just initially either. Dealers signed rights and contracts to exclusively sell in certain regions, and gave the money to the manufacturers up front so the manufacturers could afford to import vehicles both into the USA and into other regions. A train ride from LA to Boston was a hell of a lot more expensive and risky in 1920 and even 1960 than it is today. But now with modern technology a lot of those old deals and laws are not as important, but dealers have tons of money and clout and influence and frankly law makers don't want to cross them.
Luckily in Canada, you can order direct from the factory. I bought a 2019 f150 xlt that I custom ordered from the factory. My price was excatly the price supplied by the factory website plus taxes/freight etc. Ended up only being 45k cash.
Great topic. We are one of those people with an early Bronco reservation and order that has yet to be fulfilled. I’m one of those that grew up never paying anywhere near MSRP and even in today’s market won’t buy for more than MSRP. Chevy already has dealerships wanting $100K OVER MSRP for the upcoming Z06 Corvette. It’s a real problem that makes me as a consumer hungry for manufacturer direct sales like the new EV companies are doing.
Had a reservation for the Ford lightning. Dealer reached out and said whoever is willing to pay an additional $5000 will take delivery first. Just arbitrarily reorganizing pre orders
@@aclark106277 forward that email to Ford HQ and CC the sender. Might not do anything, but I bet you that there's going to be a few sweaty people at that dealership after.
As an employee of a dealership, even I am sickened by seeing how high these cars are going for and I can’t even do anything about it… I advise people to fix their cars and not trade in bc that’s an even bigger loss of money for the customer…
Within my circle of friends, I'm not alone in sole my reason for not buying a new car. It's these goddamn dealer mark-ups. I'm not paying extra just so the dealerships owner can line his/her pockets. I didn't buy an RS because of the dealers mark-up, then they killed it because of low sales. I will drive my NA and my FoST for ten more goddamn years before I pay a dealer mark-up. Yes, I'm salty.
This whole thing makes me feel good about boycotting dealers. Every car I've ever bought has been used and private party and that's how I shall continue
I am too. I wish more people were. Either because of bribes or not wanting to upset the fragile "industry" very few car shows/magazines/sites take a firm enough stance. The farthest they go is maybe saying "well, we prefer cars with engines, but the new TeslaLucidRivian whosiwhatsit accelerates very quickly so it's actually awesome!" and it frustrates me no end. I can't stand electric cars, the smug self righteousness of the people who are zealots about them, or worst of all the ignorance that leads these people to be brainwashed into thinking that electric cars are not only not evil (despite the ya know depressing child labor, slavery, and environment-destroying practices needed to produce them), not only okay, but in fact the best thing ever invented and I should be legally persecuted for wanting to drive a mustang and a bmw E36. They're so awful, so soul-less, so unnecessary. Big companies are who produce most of the pollution. If the earth really was going to melt in ten years then it's too late anyways so who cares, but politicians keep buying beachfront property so clearly it's not going to lol. Electric cars harm the environment massively, the infrastructure isn't in place, they're terrible unpredictable computers that are way too heavy way too hot way too numb and have no driver feedback nor can they be worked on by the average person. It crushes my soul man, so i'll pull up a chair and order a big ol' double helping of salt if it'd make you feel less alone lol
I'm very happy to see you guys are talking about this situation. It's actually gotten so much bigger that even the normal people have taken part of this crazy selling of cars. In my area cars with 150k miles on the odometer and 12 years on the car are going for the MSRP that was when the car was sitting on the lot. I can buy a car from a dealership with $10k mark-up and still cheaper than a 2020 model with 40k miles on the vehicle. It's that insane and don't even get me started on manufactured homes going for $100k starting prices and used manufactured homes for sale around $50k and up.
Nolan, I think I am one of the few folks who, in the last 12-15 months got a fantastic deal on a used car. Back in December of 2020 I was in a car accident with my 2012 Mazda5 where the other driver was at fault. Given that my Mazda5 had 100K miles and was not worth very much anyway, I was preparing for insurance to total my car. I have 3 kids and realistically needed a minivan, which the Mazda5 was, for daily transport. Mazda no longer makes the Mazda5, since the 2015 model year, and finding used ones was just not realistic as a direct replacement. I started looking on Craigslist and at all dealerships selling used cars within 100 miles of where I live in northwestern Vermont. I didn't care about type of van, color, trim level, or options. I just wanted a good condition minivan without an insane number of miles, for a reasonable price. Typically, what I found were a couple different options. I would find a 2017-2019 Toyota Sienna (LE or Limited trim) or Honda Odyssey (EX or EX-L trim) with 50-60K miles for about $30-35K, or I would find a 2017-2019 Dodge Grand Caravan (SXT trim) with 50-60K miles for about $18-20K. There was almost nothing in the middle with lower miles or a different trim level available. After a week of searching, I did end up finding the vehicle that I subsequently purchased to replace my Mazda5. I found a 2018 Chrysler Pacifica in Touring-L trim, with only 17K miles, for just under $21K. The Pacifica was being sold by a Nissan dealer of all things. They had bought the van at auction and were in the process of repairing a couple recall issues with it, that were known when the Nissan dealer purchased it. The car was originally bought in New Jersey and registered in Brooklyn, NY which probably accounts for the low mileage. But the CARFAX report showed 2 minor accidents in the vehicle history, with all damage repaired, which surely impacted the sales price. I would rate the exterior of the Pacifica at a 9.5/10 when I bought it, while the interior showed a bit more wear and tear for its age, and I would rate it a 7.5/10. All told, when I bought the car the Nissan dealer had dealt with any recall issues, replaced all the brake rotors and pads, installed a new battery, and put very decent new tires on the stock rims. All this would have easily cost over $1000 to have done by my mechanic. So, at the end of January 2021, I was the proud owner of a very nice Chrysler Pacifica for a fantastic price of about $23K after all the taxes and fees etc. I qualified for 3.24% for 36 months via Capital One Auto through the Nissan dealer and financed about $19,500. This was a lower interest rate than my own credit union was offering on auto loans. I've owned the Pacifica for about 14 months now, and it now has about 27K miles on it. It's easily the nicest, most comfortable, and all-around most useful vehicle I've ever owned. I get about 21MPG city and 27-28MPG highway, which is identical to my old Mazda5, for a vehicle with much more power, performance, space, and capability. I also installed and wired up a class III trailer hitch, so I can easily tow up to 3500 lbs. I really, really love this car.
Imagine paying MSRP for a depreciating asset let alone another 15-20k above it. Cant wait to get some good deals on these card in a couple years after they depreciated 50-60%.
@@JecuskyGarrett That’s the problem I see people getting a 70k car because “ the payment fits their budget” and don’t realize that they will be paying off that car for 8 years and it will end up being worth scrap value and will start the process all over again
@@ootmaster1 So you're saying that people who go and buy a car, only to own it for 2 years before deciding to sell it just to go buy another because "it's new", then complaining about the car's value after buying it AREN'T the problem? Yet when I say not to buy a car if they're seriously worried about it depreciating I'm somehow am?
I’ve always found it crazy that we can’t just go to the car companies and buy a car and always have to go through a dealership. It’s always the middle man fucking us.
it's kinda funny how back in the EU, markups are illegal, and pretty much everyone special-order their car (up to a year wait time tho). US dealerships are the absolute worst
@@jimreuss yes the dealership or your insurance assign you to a rental car / you can buy off a lot if the exact trim and option package is available, or re-order (not so fun). I had a rental for 6 months waiting for my company car (a 218d gran coupe) and some coworkers have a couple Audis, special order, and they have been waiting for a year now (and drive Jeep Renegade rentals in the meantime). Sometimes we face long waits because of import quotas (at least here in France). As a consequence many cars are titled around the end of the month
90% of the time dealers are charging LESS than MSRP (before this mess). And you can still find a lot of dealers who will order one for MSRP if your willing to wait 6 months.
@@frenchyp7b That's nice your insurance covers a rental for that long. My brother in law got rear ended and his car was totaled. I think he had a month max to use a rental car. It was very hard finding a car in the spec he wanted for a price he was willing to pay. Luckily at the time my wife was out of town so I went him my car after his rental had to be returned.
The takeaway here is that America is an oligarchy run by corporations and a handful of extremely rich billionaires. Everything in America is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
Love donut! Always helping everyone out and keeping everyone informed. I just bought a 2021 WRX last week with 400 miles for 32k which is not far off the original value or mileage. I think I got a very good deal in the pricing seeing as every other dealer around me wanted at least 28k for cars with more than 40k miles.
Pretty savage nowadays where 90% sales advisors don’t even walk up to you when you arrive to the lot. I remember the days they wouldn’t leave you alone.
We need to abolish the law that prevents Manufacturer straight to Consumer. It’s the only way these Dealerships will stop ripping off consumers. More competition and options will be the only answer to stabilize this market.
Interesting that this video came up as a suggestion for me, right after I was looking at how Tesla raised their prices by $3k since last Tuesday. The Tesla Model Y LR was at one point 48k last year, but as of today, the same model is $63k.
This makes so much sense - I've been watching people trying to buy cars this past year or so, and hardly anyone can get their cars at MSRP. Just in 2018, I was able to get my car at MSRP without the most difficult bargaining. So crazy how it is now, and I'm super curious how it'll pan out. I just feel lucky to have been able to purchase when I did! Thank you for such a thorough and understandable explanation!
I got my 22 civic new off the delivery truck for msrp no barganing in august just after it came out in a classic walk in scenario. I got lucky. I was looking for a newer vehicle (i needed something reliable for work and was tired of my shitbox failing) and it was the only one within 100 miles of where i live for the price point i could afford that was new. That car woulda soldwithin 2 days if i didnt buy it then because it was the only civic that was delivered without being a preorder from that dealer at the time
@@insertname941 nice! The civic is one of the cars I was hinting at in my comment, since I follow the 11th gen Facebook group and it's very common to see the up-pricing for these cars. At it's intended price I think it's an excellent car! But when I see how much dealers are making people pay, I'm like, the buyer might as well get a way nicer car 😅 Congrats on the civic, and esp for getting it at MSRP!
Paid $5500 over msrp on an ioniq 5. And that was after fighting for hours to eliminate several thousand in BS add ons they didn't want to remove... Can we be done with dealers already?
Hate to be that guy man but the fact that you actually paid the markup means you're part of the problem. If dealers suddenly saw that a markup meant that a car didn't sell they'd stop doing it. Though I can understand if you suddenly really did need a car, in which case, sorry bro, tough luck.
I was looking at a EV6 and our dealer had a 10k markup on the three they had in stock. The salesman didnt even flinch when he told me the price. I flat out asked him isn’t the goal to sell as many as possible so this is a long produced model. He couldn’t answer the question. The Stinger that was next to it also had a 10k markup. It’s a joke.
Lol. Nah, he was just annoyed that the 4th person that day asked him the same dumbass question like they were the only ones to think of it. If you sell all your inventory in a week, but the next stock delivery doesn't come till next month, now you have an empty lot and potential customers think you ain't getting cars. You literally lose business for selling a many as possible.
My dad went to a ford dealer since his old one finally conked out. Anyway the guy was trying to sell us an F150 for 60k, much to his dismay we found that we could order a new F250 for just over 59k at a much lower markup with more features and a 7.3 directly from the factory through the dealer. Its a 3 month wait but worth it. This video made me think of that.
This seems to be going both ways though honestly, the local dealer I got my Mariner from has been sending me offer letters to buy the vehicle back at well above the current MSRP/Value. I'm sure they'll sell it for even more but honestly I probably won't ever get close to that much even with restoration and preservation. Obviously I'm keeping this thing til the wheels fall off but if I start to see anything critical coming up soon I'm gonna jump on that offer and wash my hands for a profit 😂
I had developed a great relationship with my local Audi dealership, a particular sales guy that had helped me out, in particular. When they were launching the RS6 Avant, he even let me know when they were getting an allocation for one, and due to my repeat business were going to waive their dealer markup. Their default markup on this model was $50k over sticker price. Obviously declined, but they did eventually sell it, including that crazy markup. This was even prior to COVID, and the supply chain issues. Markup was merely due to the limited initial production numbers.
Dude! Literally identical situation happened to me! I was offered an RS6 at sticker, didn’t take it. The exact car I was looking at has since been sold, bought back by the dealer and is up for sale for higher than original MSRP as low mileage CPO… insane.
An intelligent & insightful observation...trying living in Australia with our mark ups...911 2019 GT2 RS Auto..7000km (approx 4000 miles) $729 000 AUD...USD 525000
I bought a 2022 Ram 1500 in December... Obviously I paid way more than I should have given that the same truck 10 years ago was about half the price, but I did my research and found a dealership that didn't have a markup before I went out. Several dealerships were listing at $10k over the MSRP, but I got mine at MSRP price, so it wasn't so bad
Hitting the nail on the head. And it's not only the markups that hurt the brands, it's the very poor customer service one often gets for maintenance at a dealership. Also, gotta say Nolan keeps getting better and better as a host. Clear, consive and fun. Be kind!
Honestly there's a reason this happens mostly in the US. In other parts of the world dealers have inventory (40-60 cars) but most people don't expect to enter walking and come out driving the same day. People place orders and wait a few days for his car to arrive, if it's something not so popular or an unusual configuration you as a costumer already know it will take a while because they are locating that unit, or they are ordering to be produced as you wanted. The customer expectation of immediate delivery directed dealerships to place enormous orders to factory and have a huge stock of cars and THAT creates another problem. There's a guy at every dealership group that gets paid to place orders to factory so dealerships have inventory. This job position unwillingly damaged the American car market forever. So this guy -who doesn't want to be fired- has to order hundreds of cars a month and his boss expects to sell most if not all of them for the end of the month or quarter. If that was your job which cars would you pick? Exaclty! The most boring, predictable, best selling POS in the best selling trim with the most popular options. Even if this dude was a car guy, he will never risk his job for having a manual or a wagon that doesn't sell in that short period, so despite the efforts of manufacturers promote a bold new car it won't sell if dealers won't order it. So if you as a customer want one you are screwed. The dealership wants to sell what's in stock so your order goes to an undefined date and the dealer will try to change your mind. Most people eventually settle with the closest thing to what they wanted; so the dealer and the order guy got what they wanted the only one who didn't is you, the customer driving of the dealership somewhat happy with your brand new automatic silver mid size SUV. Makeups happen because the dealership has to capitalize on the risk of buying/ allocating those hundreds and hundreds of cars per dealership. The thing is now even that silver mid size SUV is scarce so everything has a markup. TL;DR dealership inventories way smaller-> people get used to order cars-> dealer can't flex on having X model others don't-> customer gets exactly what he wants-> markup is way less effective and likely.
Also doesn't help that it's illegal for auto manufacturers to directly sell to consumers. Imagine if it was legal and you could just custom order whatever you want directly. Oh wait, that's exactly what's happening in most of the rest of the world.
@@noseboop4354 As I see it dealerships are supposed to give service to the final customer al let the manufacturer just focus on making cars but if dealers hoard inventories it becomes a problem. On the other side brands like Tesla struggle to service customers without a dealership and there have been a lot of issues about it. Maybe redesigned business model would be better for both.
Yeah sounds like I’ll be enjoying my 2018 fiesta ST for the next 10 years😅 It’s a good thing I was able to get it before these mark ups on used cars hit back in late 2020
@@PjPjPaul hell yeah ST gang! Yeah I know what you mean the prices are ridiculous! I mean do t get me wrong the RS is amazing but not what the cost is now especially them already all being a used car🤦🏽♀️ I’ll stick with my FiST for now! Especially with gas prices I’m scared to see what the future holds for cars😭
I bought a great condition, 75k mile, manual, T-Top, all stock '96 Z28 for $5k last Summer and it has convinced me that I won't be interested in modern cars again until this dealership bullshit stops. There are old, fun cars and trucks out there for dirt cheap if you're willing to do the groundwork. And they're REALLY cheap if you're willing to give something a little TLC.
@@intrepidmixedmedia7939 You're right, however, TLC vs Repairs and Restoration though... when I say TLC, I mean maybe the paint needs some work, maybe the interior is a little beat up or missing some pieces etc; things that you can take care of for relatively cheap, if you're patient and resourceful... things that turn people away and force the seller to take less, ya know? If you buy a $2500 car that at least runs, and you put $4000 into making it truly road-worthy and visually presentable, it's still only a $6500 car. I got lucky with the Camaro, in that it really only needed some hoses, which I knew before buying it.
I work for a large bank and we won’t even fund a contract if the dealer’s invoice for a new vehicle is higher or even equal to MSRP. Didn’t know dealers did this until the past few years. Been working here since before I was in the market for a new car and I’m still not in the market but when I am glad I fully know the ins and outs of the process.
I remember when John Deere sent their white collar workers to the production floor, they didn't even make it to 8am on the first day before an ambulance was called in.
The wife and I recently bought a 2022 Ford Explorer ST and while I was totally expecting the dealer to throw a mark-up on it. They didn't. They pretty much sold me the car at MSRP. The crazy part in the whole deal was my trade-in. I traded in a 2020 Kia Soul X-line with about 11K miles. I paid about 18K for that Kia (all in...TTL, etc etc) when I bought it brand new off the lot. When I traded it in....they gave me over 20K for it. So I bought that Kia new...drove it for several years...put 11K miles on it and other than some maintenance here and there...it cost me $0 over 2 years.
Had a similar experience. Bought my 2022 Ram 1500 and traded in my 2017 Mazda 3. I paid $20k for the Mazda (GT fully loaded) and the dealership gave me $16k for it. It had 71000 miles on it and had hit a deer, requiring front end work. Used car market is crazy right now. The dealership ended up selling that Mazda for $21k
@@DolphinsFanInVA 100% agree on the used car market. When we were doing the research into the buying the Explorer I kept checking on what my Kia was worth and I was simply amazed by the fact that the value on it kept going UP....not down and going up by a thousand or so here and there. I mean I had offers from places like Carmax and such of 22-23K for it. But in the end the Ford dealer gave me more than I paid for it so it was worth it (to me) to just sell it to them than to try and get a few extra K by dealing with selling it on my own first.
Don't forget about the delivery companies like Caravan and Vroom. Those are bad 'cause they make it hard to find out what happens. So there's only 2 options for those kind of companies. Either give the current vehicle that you have for them to hold as they always say. Or give a minimum payment to "try" out a vehicle for about a week or 2. Then they say that you can try another vehicle within that time period. They also never disclose how many vehicles you can try out or if you can ever get that money back if you can't find the correct vehicle or correctly priced one after trying the ones in your price range out. I don't think that you can get your money back 'cause if you're talking to a representative of one of these companies and you're doing the "hold your current vehicle" option and you ask if you get your vehicle back, they say that you will not get it back. So it seems odd to ask someone if you'll get your vehicle back if they tell you that they're gonna hold onto your current vehicle. So I don't understand how it's legal for these companies to say that they're gonna hold your vehicle while you try one out if once they get your vehicle, they're never gonna give it back...
It wasn’t the *’Ford Focus’* that opened up my consciousness of dealership markups…it was the *’C8 Stingray 3LT Corvette’.* Since then and since gas prices has gone up (and since the Bronco got marked up 😭😭😭) I’ve been walking, skateboarding, relying on public transportation and crying 🤣💯
I went to the dealership because I was considering the Ford E Transit and they aren't even taking orders for them at the moment and saying maybe in 2023! There was a 2018 Ford Transit on the lot that had 130000km on it and was listed at the SAME SELLING PRICE AS ITS ORIGINAL SALE PRICE !
Well Nolan, here is an example. I bought a used Chevy Bolt in January of 2021. $17K. Exactly a year later my wife bought a used Chevy Bolt and it cost her $30K. I was left scratching my head and wondering, "what just happened?" Both cars were the exact same age when we bought them and both cars had about the same mileage. So, in short. Thank you for explaining it to us. Keep up the good work. We love watching your videos.
It's up to consumers more than manufacturers, as they ultimately regulate the market. It's informative videos like this that educate consumers to not pay these outrageous amounts, good job Donut!
Great video! Car manufacturers having our interests? BAHAHA!!! Sold cars twice in my career, never knew what a car really cost, manufacturer incentives were unknown. Didn't know if the dealer was lowballing a trade in. And then in the finance office, whoa, points, rates, add-ons, and last and the most, those extra warranties. Not to mention the dealer applied pin stripes, "3M paint protection" (hundreds for a few bucks of tape), vinyl roofs (back in the day). Here there's a Subaru dealer with a bump of thousands, their "family price" that includes paint treatment, some protection add-on, car washes, service specials and a rebate on your next purchase from them!
Ran into a lot of this stuff last year. My parents needed to buy a car after a crash. Used, boring econo-boxes are above 30k now, and some used 2019 models were more expensive than their brand new counterparts.
This is literally what made me finally pull the trigger and buy a Tesla. Got in an accident and had to buy a new car. Was looking to spend about $25k for a car. Dealerships were marking trash up like $10-$20k. If I had to pay $35k for a comprimise shitbox I might as well spend a bit extra for the car I wanted. Went home and placed an order for a Tesla. Took like 5 min. 2 months to get the car tho, lol
@@frozenbacon Tesla requires you to buy the $10K autopilot or they will tack 3 months onto your delivery. And months more if you want to buy a low spec car. Better yet, they are jacking up pricing while reporting lower production costs. You bought a 60K car to save money?
thanks for the video nolan good topic. I've got crazy positive equity on my current vehicles but have decided to keep them both due to markups crowding me out of the new car market.
I love how there is a supply chain issue. But every manufacturer was able to create all new EV cars. But couldn't build cars they already make cause of supply issues 🤔
They are creating and offering a new car is easy, but as a consumer actually getting one is a different story generally 8-12 months on any vechile right now ICE or EV seems ot be the standard
Car development generally takes around 5 years for a standard, new model. You're telling me that GM, Ford, VW, etc., spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing vehicles to just not sell them? Because . . . they like losing money?
I've noticed that looking at cars for sale in smaller towns are actually lower too! Like they get less sales, but know no-one in their little town will pay the price so they keep them fair! Especially with used hybrids or evs
As someone who has been trying to save up money to buy a home it seems impossible to buy a decently priced home here in California. Areas that are not even popular have sky rocketed in price. There's this neighborhood that just 2 years ago average home was $300k now those homes are over $850k. Seems to me I will continue to live out of my Honda Element for a bit longer.
The information on how manufacturers allocate cars really hit home for me. It's no wonder I've been waiting 4 months for my dealer to get an allocation for a Camaro 2SS 1LE that I ordered back in mid-November. I could try to find something somewhere else, but my local dealer is discounting $500 off of MSRP, so I want to give them the business.
Just about everyone who buys a Camaro, regardless of trim, seems to have a very positive experience in regards to both price and service. Drivers never seem to have mark-ups on Camaros but you'll be waiting for some time.
I recently bought a 1998 Volkswagen Passat Wagon GLS (B5) with 173,000 miles and she runs great. 5 speed shifts really smooth, engine runs healthy and the paint looks fantastic for being the 24 year-old original paint. No codes after sitting for 2 years, and maintenanced at Dirito Bros VW it’s whole life. The furthest it’s been is Illinois so this thing troops. Bought this thing in California for $2,500 and after searching more, I can’t find another B5 in this condition for the price. I’ve been driving it around for about a month now and I love it. Compared to some other cars my friends have i’d say this thing was a STEAL for the price. Love all you guys at Donut, keep doin’ your thing.
I must be in the minority unless what I did counts as "directly from ford" in some way. I wanted a manual mustang, searched and looked around but was disgusted by the used car market at the time; this was back in July of last year. After several used car dealerships + carvana gave me TERRIBLE experiences trying to get a car I just said screw it I'll buy a new one. So I got on Ford's website, build the mustang I wanted, and called my local ford dealership to discuss it. Later that day I put in an order for the car. MSRP was $31,000 and 2 months later when the car was built I walked out of the dealership paying $28,500.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 Right, because you can't order directly from Ford with it being a manufacturer, which I understand. Was just curious as to why I had no markups, no dealer fees, and even received money off MSRP for what the dealership referred to as "compensation" for waiting 2 months on the car I ordered to be built and delivered. Moreso I guess this is me wondering if other dealerships will do that kind of thing is that the best way to try to get a new car, if you have the time to wait obviously.
@@OrionX3 A.) Congrats! B.) Perhaps your specific configuration was so--specific--it wouldn't be something that a dealer could easily sell for a higher price.
I'm located in Atlanta Georgia and just recently got a Mustang Mach E back in February that was on its way to the dealership. I didn't get charged this market adjustment luckily. I have noticed used 2022 vehicles with 9 miles alot online in the recent days. Seems to be a way around markups for "new" vehicles.
That's always been a way for dealers to price gouge hot ticket items. When the R35 GTR came out in 2009 or whenever, most dealerships only got one or two per year. The 'dealership' (or owner of the dealership) would buy the car at msrp, drive it around the block a few times, then sell it used for 20 or 30 grand over the msrp because there was nearly no chance at actually finding a new one for sale. Dealership scumbaggery has been around since the start.
Very good video and conversation. I got sucked in and bought a new Honda Civic Type R in Aug 2021 for 60k and now I am regretting it big time. I knew I was overpaying but it was a super bad move. I called and drove all over southern California and Arizona and could not find a single one that was not marked up. It was already hard finding that car let alone finding one the least marked up. I can't seam to get rid of it for anything close to what I owe. I am stuck until its paid off most likely. And that whole sales pitch you can refi the car in 6-12 months... Ya that's not possible now since I am so upside down.
@@KermitOfWar Guy said it was because of the tornado that killed a few C8's. A few C8's get destroyed in a tornado and all of a sudden the base-models are $100k.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
As a former dealer technician, I thoroughly enjoy watching them close-up shop and go under. I laugh at every job posting from a dealer. It's obvious they don't even look around at what other opportunities people have. My last dealer couldn't find an oil change guy to save their life. Then fired me when I told them "A greeter at Walmart starts at $14 an hour and you people think you're going to sucker someone into this trade for $12?! You'd have to be a politician to be any more out of touch with reality." lol
Every dealership around me is hiring techs @ $20+\hr but you need 3+ years of experience plus an ASE Cert and there’s no training provided.
@@kilroywashere9678 certs are a massive scam
The automotive repair
Industry is so behind the ball when it comes to paying people what they're worth. Flat rate will kill you, most techs at the dealership I was at would put in 40+hrs just to turn 30 hours. On top of that, you'll never meet an old mechanic who has a body that isn't beaten and broken. I'm so glad I got out of the Industry.
Let me guess, they claim they can't find anyone because "people don't want to work" and/or "people would rather stay home and collect welfare".
I'm retired oilfield.
The first time I heard the latter it was from a company that had a whole crew on a well quit. They hadn't paid them for all the hours they worked.
The funniest was a gate guard who used to have a trucking company. He nickeled and dimed his drivers (Class A CDL w/ Hazmat endorsement) so they all quit and went to work for other companies and told everyone they knew, including at the driving schools, to avoid that company.
He also claimed that two of his neighbors were "welfare queens" who "sat around all day and did nothing" and had pictures of them. One was the derrick man working days that hitch on that rig, the other worked the kitchen at the truck stop I picked up breakfast from on the way to work.
@@TheHman2002 seems like they only people I’ve heard that are being paid well are diesel techs, I’ve heard $40+/hr for an experienced one
Its good to see such a big channel actually spreading awareness of corporate greed instead of staying silent because of sponsors
He should see how the housing market is the same thing expect with $100k inflations
Corporate greed...... Companies exist to make money so you can't get hissy for them for doing what they can, if you don't like it don't be the guy that funds them, it's not that complicated, these companies that have made so much on top of RRP haven't done it because everyone's car happened to fail at the same time and most people who bought a good car pre covid only bought a new one now because they were able to get such a good price for selling their last one on..... If you don't like it don't buy it, if it happens without you then it's not your fault or your problem so stop complaining.
@@Alex-md6bu but the issue is that (at least in America) Cars are a necessity for work and making money. And before you say we can make money online and never ned to leave the house. not everyone has the internet or the desire to work at home. and Even still, some companies are still doing in person interviews. so getting a car can be treated like getting a degree. you don't explicitly need one but your life definitely isn't getting easier if you dont get one.
@@burnttoastbrain let's not pretend that it is physically impossible to get a cheaper car, you're just not going to get as much car for your money people struggling to get a job aren't the same people paying 10k over sticker for a bronco
What sponsors would want them to stay silent? Dealerships? lmao.
Yeah, sure there's Ford possibly feeding into the dealer markup fiasco and they did call it out.
Finally being a fair small family dealer is paying off. Pretty sure I work at the smallest dodge dealer in the entire nation and had the hardest time keeping local clients business and tax dollars local. Now it's the opposite...I'm sending trucks to Reno, Oregon, and even met a client at airport that flew in from Mesa Az. Only because im not marking up vehicles thousands over MSRP. Hopefully my clients remember this when bigger dealers start giving away vehicles at zero profit again
you should capitalize and market on the internet and all the forums. Internet sales has made some dealerships absurdly gigantic.
They won’t mate. They will be your best friend now and drop you as soon as supply is back.
good for you man!!! I was literally telling myself, if a local dealer of mine here gives me a hassle when I'm trying to get my gladiator I'll tell them I'll just fly out somewhere and drive it home cheaper 🤷♂️🤷♂️ dummies. Do they think we don't know they get their units under msrp, then charge another 10k on top the msrp that people aren't gonna be upset?
@@APolishPlayer next time you get a jeep and if they try to price gouge you, fly here to toledo ohio. It's where the gladiator and wrangler are made. You'll get the best prices in the country for new and used (there are tonsss of jeeps here). Also if you like the jeep culture I suggest checking out the jeep fest next year! It's happening this weekend but every jeep owner I know loves going
I'd say your local customers will be the most loyal if that ever happens, if you guys do maintenence and keep it fairly priced while doing good work you'll have way more people lining up over time to buy and or service their vehicles. Best of luck to you!
Government: Automotive producers have to sell through dealers to prevent price gouging.
Dealers: *Begins furiously price gouging*
Ah-ah-ah! Market adjustment.
They dig their own graves.
Let them do it, if this means getting rid of the greasy slime known as a car salesman.
And surprise surprise... manufacturers realize that price gouging is actually much, much less profitable when it's this extreme. It's almost like there's a reason they carefully pick an MSRP for pretty much every vehicle.
Ignoring that 1. Manufacturers created dealerships. 2. Dealerships lobbied the government, and payed millions in public campaigns to make people like them 3. dealerships basically wrote the law to solidify that cars needed to be sold through them
seems pretty backward to blame the government for just enforcing what dealers (and the general public) decided they wanted
Everything the government touches gets more expensive so makes sense.
I recently went to a local Hyundai dealership and test drove an Elantra SEL and was prepared to drive away that night. I asked for price and they had a $3k markup PLUS $2k in "after-market upgrades" that were "non-negotiable". Price was $6k over MSRP by the time you added it all up.
They of course asked "What can we do to make this deal happen tonight?" I said I wanted to buy the car at MSRP. I was basically laughed out of the dealership because I wanted the car at MSRP.
I'm going to quote another comment because they said it perfectly. "Dealerships need to end. It's a model no longer servicing the US."
hahahahahaha
Drove 3 hours to a Honda dealership yesterday and the exact same markups caused me to drove back home in the car I drove there in.
I got the 21 Elantra limited under MSRP 7 months ago. I would say you should pass on it. Mine has been nothing but trouble. The infotainment system seems to keep crashing which seems to be a common problem. Mine also had the radiator fail and start leaking due to bad welds, it took almost a month for my car to get fixed and back to me.
this is not unique to america this is what’s happening all over the world
I bought a Tuscon for my wife 2 weeks ago and my local dealership was pulling the same bs. Luckily I found a dealership an hour away in the country that would sell at msrp, only thing they hit me with was 400 for window etching.
Dealers marking up harms the manufacturers brand, period. If you can't get the amazing new car or truck a manufacturer made at the amazing price they've made it for, it ceases to be an amazing deal.
not really human beings love exclusivity they would rather pay extra for something that others can’t have
@@marcelohendrix6139 in my opinion, this “exclusivity” doesn’t feel exclusive, it’s just blatant greed from car dealerships. Knowing MSRP, I’d never pay an insane markup for a car that simply isn’t worth that price. Everyone always says a car is the worst investment someone can buy, so why the hell would I spend an extra 5-15k on the worst investment of my life? That’s how I see it anyways
Definitely hurts the brands. Some manufacturers will never get my money simply because dealerships are owned by fucking scumbags.
@@marcelohendrix6139 Dealers flat out killed the Focus RS. Subaru dealers have tremendously hurt their brand image with the arrogance of treating all Subaru's like Ferrari's that cannot be touched until purchased. People have some blame because they should refuse to pay 1 penny more than MSRP, but dealers are turning into scum that should be kicked out of the USA forever.
@@marcelohendrix6139 it's incredibly stupid to pay more just to be exclusive, imo. Not just for cars, but for watches, clothes, handbags, etc as well I think. I'm not looking for exclusivity, I'm looking for a good cheap car.
I actually had to buy a car recently and I was gobsmacked by prices, dealer mark ups, and lack of inventory (my local Subaru dealership had eight cars on the lot). That’s when I discovered that Genesis had a direct to customer model via their website. I built my new G70 on the website, paid my deposit, had the car delivered to my driveway by their Experience Manager and paid sticker price for my car after a 45 minute orientation. I’m not a big fan of Teslas, but they created the buying experience of the future that other car companies like Genesis are starting to emulate.
They even gave me a discount for switching from BMW and threw in a set of winter tires on rims.
Amazing! Stoked for you! Enjoy, I've heard very good things on the g70
Damn that sounds amazing bruh! Enjoy the new car!
Shill alert
this gives me hope. Im glad you didn't get suckered into an overpriced car
Wonder if Hyundai is doing the same thing, my local dealer is charging 16% over msrp for an Elantra N
"I don't even like going online and looking at cars anymore". Man, this line really hit home for me, and it's not just looking on autotrader or online auction websites, I'm actually slowly losing interest in the hobby as a whole because I often feel discouraged and find myself reading less articles and watching less videos about new products I won't be able to afford. I wonder if sites like cars and bids have seen major dips in traffic to go along with the increasing amount of auctions ending in reserve not met?
I mean don't get me wrong, i still enjoy driving and taking care of what i currently own, but those dreams of "the next car I buy" are really fizzling out quickly. Between the current inflation situation on pretty much every daily necessity and what's happened to both new and used car prices, I just can't imagine having that kind of expendable cash anymore. It's funny to think 2-3 years ago I was seriously debating on trying to find a used Porsche, and now I'm just wishing i could find a nice used tacoma for a reasonable price I can then drive for the rest of my life.
Couldn't relate more, I'm a 16 year old who has saved for his whole life, finally got enough money, then car prices for the car I'm interested in literally doubled. I'm screwed
Man, I feel that, every time I take a look around for anything, my standards keep getting lower and lower, to the point where I start thinking about just putting a turbo and suspension in my 2014 grand caravan. (The only vehicle I own)
I bet the traffic has actually gone up, for exactly the same reason. Those of us wanting to see "what car that was once a decent buy for $20k a year and change ago is now selling for $35k sight unseen?!" still go there. Nolans Focus RS example is a good...example...of that. If I knew my '17 RS would be worth as much now as I paid for it, or even more than I paid for it I would've kept it. Or the E34 M5 I replaced it with in 2020. Alright, I'm going to go cry now...
Tacoma owners and usually Toyota truck and SUV owners are greedy af. Why just why
If you can hold then in about 2 years the market will reverse, so many people will have an overpriced vehicle that only a car crushing company will purchase.
Manufacturers aren't crazy, they're pumping out more cars now than ever before, that along with demand being stupidly higher than ever makes for a perfect saturated market storm when supply drops back to normal or slightly below normal as its wxpected since everyone had a new car that previously never would have.
They've been back above pre covid rates since July 2021, sure they'd pump out more if they could.
The wealthiest families in every town in America are those who own the dealerships and small dealer groups.
Planet Ford in Spring Texas makes so much, the owner and the GM have brand new for GTs (GT 40) sitting in the dealership worth a couple million. Its their personal cars. And they just sit there all day behind ropes. These dealers make literally tens of millions on scamming people. There is NO WAY they move enough vehicles at reasonable rates and interest to earn the profits they do. Doesn't hurt employees get paid commission and like shit.
As someone who has worked at many, it's the dudes that own the land that dealers are on making the real bank.
Chaldean side stare*
Worked for a dealer group called MCE automotive in the accounting department. Saw a new Kia Soul deal come through with a $12,000 profit on the front end and another $7,000 profit on the back end. When I confronted the CFO he said “they should’ve shopped harder.”
At the same time I was getting paid $36,000 a year, the dealers son went and bought his wife a brand new Bentley continental GT. Total slime balls
Yep. There's a guy here in Wisconsin who owns at least two airplanes; I've seen his De Havilland Beaver and Cessna Citation. He owns a car dealership.
I’d love to see dealerships taken out of the loop. As someone who worked as a salesman for years I can tell you they’re absolute crooks.
My dad bought an MGB straight from the factory when he lived in England in the 60’s. He shook the hands of the men who built his car. He always said that was one of the greatest automotive experiences of his life.
That's crazy. Not even heard of anymore
that’s the British spirit back in the day, almost every small British company (especially those who focus solely on sports cars like MG, Triumph, and Lotus) had that kind of sales model. Probs because they didn’t have much money, but it added to the character and buying experience even though their reliability…. wasn’t exactly the best.
@@devandrasimanjuntak1646 I had an MG Midget in high school in the 90’s. It’s sounds odd to say but the unreliability made you more aware of the vehicle and driving experience. You’d set off on a drive and you could tell something just wasn’t right. Something odd in the steering or a tiny hesitation in acceleration. You would become an expert of your own car. It’s unlike any modern car I’ve driven.
I’m sure someday soon I’ll get a B or Midget again and all the knowledge I’ve forgotten about them will come back.
Carvanas doing it right, buy it, try it, keep or return it no dealer to talk to just buy it like buying something from amazon
@@cameronrob5491 I love Caravana for this
I was just working in a Ford Dealership owner’s office and witnessed a very heated conversation between the owner and a corporate rep on this exact topic. It was crazy to hear it first hand.
My nosey self wants to know more haha tell us more
+1 for the deets
spill da t e a
Gonna need more details.
Here for the juicy details too
Just received my Bronco and while the wait was long, it was an overall good experience with my dealer. The dealership honored the price agreement we made when I first put in my reservation (slightly under MSRP, and if I hadn't of made that deal would of sold at MSRP). I also got from Ford over $2K worth of freebies for the wait ($1k in a consumer satisfaction program my dealer opted into, and $1.1K worth of their Ford Pass points to use how I see fit). In fairness, my dealer said that if I had walked away, they probably would of sold my Bronco for $15k over sticker. At the same time, there were plenty of early buyers of the Bronco who bought it and drove straight to Carmax to make a quick $20k.
Dealer markups for the Ford Maverick are insane. I saw one locally with a $6500 markup. It's a $20k truck.
Here in the South there are some XLTs 2.5L at $35k+ and the only real difference were some added wheels. WTF
All the markups that the maverick has been having defeats it’s purpose of offering a cheap compact truck.
@Filthy Capitalist its not a $6500 mark up its a $6500 value add lol.
Yes, I've been wanting to get one but the markups are keeping me away
I was really interested in buying one, these markups pretty much killed that for me
kinda crazy how when this sort of stuff happens the government is totally silent, yet when I try to make a little side hustle cash they start crying and moaning about taxes, absolutely ridiculous.
The government makes money off the markups too 🤷♂️ more sales tax higher wheel tax etc
Why would they help us when our struggle benefits them?
@@MarkIV_Garage thats actually a brilliant point my friend, you're 1000% correct. they only watch out for themselves its like a gang
Help from our government??? Now there's people out for themselves!!!!!!
In 2017 I walked into my local Ford looking to buy a Focus RS, ended up seeing all of them with a 10k markup. It's a shame such greed from dealers let to it's eventual demise.
Ford needs to figure out their dealerships. It is disgusting in every way.
When I bought my Golf-R, I had the same treatment as that of the Ford Focus RS. I wasn't allowed to test drive it, no dealer would allow it. In addition, markups were common. I had to fly 500 miles away and drive the car home in order to get one at MSRP. I found one that was mistakenly listed for below MSRP, and the dealer said that in order for them to honor it I would have had to fly 300 miles THAT DAY. This was in 2016. So it's not just the RS, a lot of specialty cars had this problem.
I also had a dealership call me 3 months after I'd bought mine saying that one of their salespeople was fired for incompetence (he literally couldn't spell), and wanted to know if there was any way they could get my business back...
Dealerships need to end, it's a model that's no longer serving the US.
How you like the R? Funny you said that because I literally talked A good friend into doing that when he got his mark6 R new. Flew south bought for msrp and drove back to NY.
They called you back 3 months later? That just screams to me, that that dealer has no idea what they are doing. It also tells me that no one came to buy the car and they're probably coming up with excuses with the whole the other guy was incompetent at selling cars story. Although, if the car did sit until this year or so, it probably sold for even more because of what's going on right now. So it ended up working out for them in the long run.
@@eurosonly This was in 2016, long time ago :)
@@pdotc The R is the best vehicle I've owned. It's a 2016 model and it's just now out of warranty so it's getting old, but my feelings for it are a cross between a beloved pet and a best friend. It goes everywhere with me, we've been through a lot (including *cough* an accident). It's my daily driver, grand tourer, family hauler, and everything in between. It's a snow bunny in the winter, and a monster on the track.
@@WhiteG60 I also looked at the JCW mini, and was tempted, but I couldn't deal with the speedometer in the middle at the time.
At the end of my three year lease on an 18 Rav-4 Adventure, my buyout price was 18,000. We went to the dealer to sign paperwork and they said it was 25,000. Long story short, I got my own financing and purchased my lease directly from Toyota for exactly 18,000. Dealers are the worst.
Isn’t it stated in the lease agreement how much the buyout would be? That sounds crazy!
Imagine buying a car with financing. Just save up the money, dont pay interest.
@@scrubplaceholder6216 With how fast car prices are increasing, the average American would never be able to save up and buy a new car with cash.
@@scrubplaceholder6216 Interest rates are low. Better to take the financing and keep your cash in the markets.
@@scrubplaceholder6216 interest rates are still low and inflation is high. you'd be an idiot to suggest buying in cash over financing
Thank you for calling out Ford on the Bronco shenanigans. I think a lot of lightning buyers are going to realize the "reservation" bait and switch too. I don't believe for one second that Ford is serious about punishing their dealers for ADMs. Whatever they say, their actions always somehow turn out as a benefit for those same dealers who are marking up their vehicles.
there's no conspiracy, dealerships are using these "shortages" to price gouge more than they already were before.
You probably think msrp is price gouging
MSRP or anything below is not price gouging.... what's happening now is price gouging
Anyone buying from a dealer is a sucker to begin with
So they are conspiring to artificially inflate the prices. Great post bro.
@B some people only need a car for a short period of time due to work putting them in another country for just a couple years, or for college. Some people drive low mileage and are able to combine incentives to drive new cars for low money. Some people have shit credit. All of these things a lease are great for (which come with warranty, gap insurance, and often maintenance included).
Some people have the means to get a car that hasn't been farted in yet, and if they have the means and want a new car, then sure, why not buy new?
A lot of dealerships invest repairs and maintenance that crappy car owners skip and then warranty used cars. Putting the time, money, and a guarantee on something not everyone has the time, patience, or knowledge to even check for. To have a used car market.... new cars have to come from somewhere. To state there is 0 reason for dealerships is silly, just becasue there are flaws, or because you personally enjoy making person to person transactions
It's like saying that buying a new phone is stupid. The used phones have to come from somewhere. It's a depreciating asset. Most people want a new one if they can get it. You can buy one from your friend. But a phone store is going to have accessories, services, and warranties that your friend doesn't have.
This is happening because car dealerships are an outdated model. These businesses can't be highly profitable without ripping you off.
Just like the taxi model died in favor of uber. So too will the dealership model die to direct sales and over the air updates.
Tesla requires you to buy the $10K autopilot or they will tack 3 months onto your delivery. And months more if you want to buy a low spec car. Better yet, they are jacking up pricing while reporting lower production costs.
Nah this is happening because just enough people in the market are ready and willing to pay over MSRP for what cars are available. You see 5 grand over MSRP and think 'f that no way im paying over sticker'. Meanwhile the customer with a trade and average credit is getting just 2 grand less than he paid for his trade 3 years ago and low interest rates.
And everyone who works there looks like they were indoctrinated by the mob
@@bindingcurve everyone pays the same price with tesla
I test drove a Hyundai the other day. The sales guy spent the entire drive bragging that their “$7,000 markups and dealer add ons weren’t as bad as other dealer’s $20,000 markups.”
He spent the entire time price anchoring, and I had to keep interrupting him to get any questions in about the car. Long story short, I didn’t buy the car.
If you even pay MSRP for a Hyundai, and keep it relatively long, you are a sucker
@@andretsang7337 Hyundai has some great cars in their offerings. Not sure what you’re on about, unless you’re unaware that Hyundai isn’t the same car maker as it was in 2005. Those N cars are pretty sweet too
@@jonosterman2878 most stolen cars in America and lowest ranking In realizability I think not
I can't believe the market this year. I bought my GTI new from the dealer in May 2020 for 7K off MSRP. Now it's worth way more than I even paid for it with 27k miles on it. What these dealers are doing now is pushing them out of business.
I got a new car in 2020 and then sold it for more. It's crazy
Just traded my 19 GTI for the Mk8 R. Bought the 19 Rabbit GTI for 26k and traded it for 27k (low milage)
Now tell me why a dealership would sell you a car at msrp when they have to pay you more than MSRP on your trade in?
And after that do they take your trade and sell it for less than msrp because they are selling new ones for msrp?
They're not even selling to people they're just sucking up auction inventory and pawning it off on eachother over and over. It's a straight up used car bubble lol.
Nolan and team! We love you for your honest videos and this is no exception!!! Low class and middle class lovers of automobiles are having their car hobby taken from them. I worked hard got a pretty good job and it's been 5 years. I still can't afford a sweet car new or used to play with because between fuel, food, and dealership markups it's making it sooooo hard for people to get into racing that aren't born into it.
Exactly! I'm finally at a point in my life where I thought I'd be able to get into the car stuff I've dreamed of, but its more and more unattainable as the years pass. Makes me so depressed. I'll just never be able to afford it :(
Yeah I just bought two more mustang terminators knowing the glory days are coming to an end soon. It's almost over for ICEs
@@jbnnm657 glad you could save a few of them so 10 years from now they will still be here for us to point to and show our kids how sick cars used to be.
Donut, I love you guys because you guys put the spotlight on so many things that are affecting not only enthusiasts but literally everyone in the market for a vehicle.
You guys are in a very unique position where you have the Social Media presence, the knowledge and the wherewithal to actually present this to the government to make a significant change. The people need YOU guys to help gather together a movement to abolish the laws that prevent manufacturers from dealing directly with consumers. As long as they stick with MSRP then dealerships have more incentive to be more competitive in the market instead of being predatory.
Please consider the massive influence that you have to make a significant change for the entire automotive market.
As long as people continue to buy them they'll keep on keeping on with the huge markups.
I work at one of the only dealerships that has no mark-ups and has the lowest dealer fee of anyone in our zone. All of our fees are exactly the same as before the pandemic. The number one asked question from a potential customer is "how much is your mark-up?" Everyone is always shocked that we have no mark-ups.
Hmmm where is that?
For real
Same at the dealership I work at.
Unfortunately though, as we have basically no stock right now, last month was the first time I've made minimum wage in over 20 years. This month is looking bleak too 😒
I don't like markups either, but when a dealership has no stock, I can't really blame them "too" much for wanting to capitalize on the ones they have.
The funny thing is, used car values have also gone up by around 30% yet buyers of privately sold used cars don't question the price increase.
Everyone always blames the dealerships - *for good reason* but people also need to remember that not every dealership is that way, and we're generally just normal people trying to make an honest wage.
@@edsgarage001 Is it a supply chain issue or is the manufacturer not prioritizing your dealer for allocations?
@@raymonds7492 definitely supply chain issue.
Every company right now is experiencing issues right now.
A perfect storm of
-covid closures
-chip manufacturers having gone bankrupt
-transport problems
And now the war
This is a global problem that hasn't spared any company. (Though some manufacturers are doing better then others)
Near me I've got about 7 other dealers from various makes, all of them are extremely low on stock.
There's a Toyota dealer a couple minutes away that has a football field sized lot with like 10 cars in it.
We've got about 6 new cars and about 14 used. Last year this time, we had about 75 cars.
This video is why I'm glad I took such an interest in mechanics at a young age, I saw that it was the one thing so many people had in common, the need for transportation and how their lives evolved around being able to maintain that transportation.
I have saved myself countless thousands buying 15-60+ yr old vehicles, my current Jeep XJ is still saving me money, I have a 4 door manual 4x4 SUV, mint for 3k on the road, they tell you to use your head in schools but forget to tell you that using your hands is also beneficial
Yeah and you'll never need to sell it for less than like 4x that, too.
My mechanic makes 6 figures just flipping shit off craigslist and only keeps his shop job to have access to the equipment even though it pays like crap.
He'll probably have a more fun and interesting life than most people I know.
It’s kinda crazy that when someone is able to buy at just the sticker price their considered so lucky to have avoided AMV! It used to be that anyone buying/negotiating from the sticker price instead of dealer invoice, was a uninformed sucker!
waht is amv?
Adjusted Market Value
@@pauldiesel4582 ah ok thx
I know a guy who would go back and forth between 2 dealerships and pretend the other dealership had offered the car for x amount and ask them to beat it. He would just make shit up lol. He'd go back and forth a few times and get his cars waaaay below msrp. That tactic probably wouldn't even work these days. Not that it's a very honest tactic to begin with lol.
That’s because msrp is already too high to begin with. It’s like saying you’re having a sale when you really just marked up the original price and used the original msrp as the sales price. So what they should be doing is charging msrp and not doing negotiable prices, instead of pretending that msrp is way too low (they still pay a fraction of msrp for inventory anyway, so they’re just cheating everyone). That would be the honest and correct thing to do, but since everyone thinks capitalism means being a predatory capitalist, thy see nothing wrong with it.
I tried to go look at a bronco last weekend that was actually in stock at my ford dealer. MSRP was 46k, and I asked what the markup was and they told me “just a standard $8,000 markup, that’s what we’ve done for everything”. I didn’t even know what to say lol
“That’s what we’ve done for everything.” Just standard thievery🤣 They don’t even try to hide it. Openly admitting they rip people off on every deal.
*guy about to be hung*
"first time?"
Id say byeeeee. Enough is enough.
We live in the real world. Would you rather have the option to pay 8k extra or not get anything?
@@akivaweil5066 not get anything lol
Donut Media, this is why you've exploded (in a good way). The majority of consumers can relate to you. We find comfort in knowing you guys get it and understand our struggles and frustrations. From one car enthusiast to another, thank you for keeping us informed and for leading the battle of consumers vs greedy dealers.
I myself have seen this problem first hand working as a technician for a dealership. A close friend of mine works for Toyota and tells me how some customers pay upwards of 10 grand mark ups for 4-runners. When you see how the cogs turn in this business it saddens you as a true enthusiast who just wants to see people buy a nice reliable machine at an affordable price. The worst part is that there’s no way around it since demand is inflating used car prices as well, it’s why it pays well to know your craft so you buy cheap and build something unique and useful with your own hands
I tried to explain this to people on Reddit complaining about car prices. Just get something cheap, older, reliable, not too hard to work on, take really good care of it, take some time to learn a little about vehicle maintenance, it’ll be worth it in the end. You wouldn’t believe how many downvotes I got. Feckin Reddit tards man.
$10,000 markup seems tame compared to what some are asking. Broncos are getting like $25,000+ markups. Mavericks are getting $15,000+ markups. It's freaking nuts out there.
@@wun1gee they know people want new shiny cars and are playing hard to get! But peeps don’t pay attention, they’d rather give money away
I used to work in the car business in both sales and service, and currently work in real estate (not an agent). I think both industries are going to screw themselves over again like they did in ‘07-‘09. A lot of the problem is coming down to greed in my opinion.
It seems kind of inevitable some sort of crash will happen, maybe even a recession. I think the worst is yet to come, but because of that the best will arrive... maybe.
Greed in the absence of an alternative doesn't work long-term. But in both cases -- cars, real estate -- technology appears to be providing the solution.
I listed my last house (2018) for sale on Zillow myself. I ran comps for similar homes for sale in the area myself, using Zillow. Then I put in the listing "paying buyer's agent 2%".
Big surprise, no buyer's agent wanted to show my house. But the Denver housing market is so crazy that the buyers were looking themselves every day on Zillow for new listings. Mine pops up, the buyers themselves request a showing, they buy the house at asking price. I keep the extra 4%.
I had one seller's agent call me asking to represent the house. "I average 102% of list price!" To which I replied: after your 3% fee, that's 99% of list price to me.
What happened from 07-09?
Thank you for doing this piece. I get frustrated with other car reviewers because they skirt around the markup issues and do nothing but try and sell more cars to their dealer friends!
Thanks for covering this topic! I been trying to spread the word in Texas not support Dealer mark ups. You know its the end of the world when a family has to pay $40K for a 2022 Honda Civic.
That's a huge markup for a Honda Civic! Crazy!
@@djmar6279 Apparently few days ago some youtuber who went to the Honda dealership in LA, found a standard 2021 Civic hatch for $45K, and 2022 Civic Si sedan for $50k
@@AHondaCivicEX same here, went to a Honda dealership and the civic "sport" was selling for 45k and the base model I was looking for was selling for 35k
@@yav1d yeah it got to the point that the manufacturers themselves "wanted" to put an end to the absolutely absurd vehicle markups set by the dealerships in the states
I bought a 2022 Civic Touring 7 months ago brand new for $29K as soon as it got off the truck to add to my rental fleet. I just sold it last week with 1OK miles to another dealer because he paid me $32K for it and he is now selling it for $35K USED! The dealer was desperate for inventory, the market is ridiculous right now.
This was one of the best wheelhouse episodes to date. Keep up the great work, Nolan!
With the closure of GM Holden here in Adelaide South Australia, I've seen my $3000 VS Caprice jump up to values over $12-15k in about 2 years. COVID tax and "exclusivity" are sending vehicle prices straight to HELL!!!!
Good for you mate! Now, why should a dealer be any different?
Honda charged me an additional $2,500 for a 2022 Civic. Their used 2017's were only $2k cheaper than a new one.
Back in 2020 I was in the market for an Si coupe but quickly stopped when I noticed that a used one cost about the same as a brand new one
That wasn't Honda, that was the Honda stealership.
@@Je11yb3aner that was the same in 2018 too.
Traded my 2018 Si sedan in this January and got OTD cost of $25k. 4 years of no paint care, 36k miles, minor cosmetic issues and the dealership still tries to sell my car for +$31,000. It's dropped down to $29k and still sitting on their lot.
Definitely better to just buy new at this point. These dealerships are on another level.
the used car market in the US, carmax especially in my humble opinion are highway robberies. I don't know if its any better right now in foreign countries but last time I checked
it was definitely better
I was lucky enough to buy a car mid 2020; and though it seemed crazy at the time, now I'm grateful I did. Dealers were desperate to sell cars at the time in my experience.
Bought a new Grand Caravan in 2019 for $8000 under MSRP. I could probably sell it used today for more than I paid for it.
I recently ordered a Ranger and fortunately I was able to do so at MSRP, but my dealer told me they have to mark up the Bronco’s by thousands of dollars just to keep the lights on with how few shipments they’re getting. The empty lot makes me inclined to believe him but the prices make me glad I went with the ranger
Dealer profits are up over 50% despite the car shortage. They're doin more than fine
crocodile tears...don't believe it.
The main problem is us, the consumer. We're the ones that keep buying despite the markups. At least most people are the problem. I can wait a few years.
I'm glad someone finally said it. I work for a dealer, people come to us to buy cars it's not like were making them purchase. I'm in a small town so i don't see much of this. This video is basically aimed at large dealers near large cities. Rual dealers are just are kinda vibing and stealing business from the bigger ones because we aren't charging OVER sticker.
Common pattern these days. "It's not fair that they do this to me... umm who do I write that check out to again?"
Pretty darn simple to vote with your wallet and take your business elsewhere but nope. Had a coworker that would walk into a dealership, ask how much, and if the sales person wouldn't just tell him how much the car he was interested in cost he'd walk out the door. People act like most of us can't just wait.
Fortunately I can wait for a few years too ... even a decade 😊.
I bought my 2017 Camaro SS in July of 2020 for an extreme discount. The out of state dealer I bought it from called me a couple weeks ago begging me to sell the car back to them after a year and a half. I laughed. I'm keeping this baby!
LMAO same i bought a challenger RT with the shaker package the same month and year and got a text from the dealership I bought it from seeing if would come in and trade my vehicle for another 😂
I am a car salesman for CDJR and Ford. With that being said our dealer does not charge over sticker unless it is a specialty vehicle…. But I will say the problem is really simple for the manufacturers. If they do not want dealers charging over MSRP then get us vehicles period. Right now we have only 15 new cars on the lot. What do they expect? You have salesman that are paid based on units sold. So you go from selling 15-20 cars a month to half that. What do we do? I have new are orders that customer’s have been waiting 3 months for with no real updates on when they will get there vehicle.
Coming from the uk, and having had great experiences buying directly from manufacturers for years, I find the US laws absolutely crazy. The people who build the cars are legally obligated to use a middleman. How did that become a thing? Having just ordered a new car, I’m paying exactly what the manufacturer is advertising it at.
Like most things here in the US, it was likely due to lobbying. I’m sure someone else could give you an exact reason why, but usually if there is something like this, it means someone paid the government enough for them to allow it to continue for so long. Clearly it doesn’t help anyone. But that’s just US politics in general - politicians here do what will push their agenda forward and make them the most money, not what’s best for the people.
Like everything in the US it was a cost saving measure. By passing the sales on to independent dealers car manufacturers saved money on not having to build out the dealer networks, staff them, stock them and sell them.
When dealers realized how lucrative the model was they lobbied states to pass laws to not only make buying a car from a independent dealer the only way to buy a new car, but passed territory laws to prevent another dealer opening one within a certain distance. States don’t want to change these laws because the sales tax off car sales are their top revenue generator.
Because the USA was a totally different market. In many cases the dealers were the ones that fronted the money for the manufacturers to start delivering cars and manufacturing them. 100 years ago the turn around from ordering a vehicle and then having it built was 6 months or far longer. So dealers promised to buy from manufacturers sight unseen so they would have product to sell to the local people, and that gave manufacturers the cash they needed to have full assembly lines and systems to make vehicles actually affordable. At one point cars were so expensive the people that manufactured them could not even afford to buy them. But these contracts gave both parties serious liability so they went to their states congress to make sure the manufacturers could only sell according to the already signed contracts and not steal from the dealers. And that is just for manufacturers in the USA. Most imported cars were brought in and the money was to do so was given up front by dealers. And not just initially either. Dealers signed rights and contracts to exclusively sell in certain regions, and gave the money to the manufacturers up front so the manufacturers could afford to import vehicles both into the USA and into other regions. A train ride from LA to Boston was a hell of a lot more expensive and risky in 1920 and even 1960 than it is today. But now with modern technology a lot of those old deals and laws are not as important, but dealers have tons of money and clout and influence and frankly law makers don't want to cross them.
Luckily in Canada, you can order direct from the factory. I bought a 2019 f150 xlt that I custom ordered from the factory. My price was excatly the price supplied by the factory website plus taxes/freight etc. Ended up only being 45k cash.
The MSRP was adjusted up by FoMoCo for MY2022...
Great topic. We are one of those people with an early Bronco reservation and order that has yet to be fulfilled. I’m one of those that grew up never paying anywhere near MSRP and even in today’s market won’t buy for more than MSRP. Chevy already has dealerships wanting $100K OVER MSRP for the upcoming Z06 Corvette. It’s a real problem that makes me as a consumer hungry for manufacturer direct sales like the new EV companies are doing.
Had a reservation for the Ford lightning. Dealer reached out and said whoever is willing to pay an additional $5000 will take delivery first. Just arbitrarily reorganizing pre orders
A pre-order for a pre order? I would've pulled my money asap and went somewhere else.
@@brettschuller1863 they're not getting my money that's for sure
@@aclark106277 forward that email to Ford HQ and CC the sender. Might not do anything, but I bet you that there's going to be a few sweaty people at that dealership after.
They think thy are Mecum now. Bunch of greedy a holes
I think James should do a D-list on the cars from Transformers!
No
Yes
Maybe?
Oh yeah
OMG yes
As an employee of a dealership, even I am sickened by seeing how high these cars are going for and I can’t even do anything about it… I advise people to fix their cars and not trade in bc that’s an even bigger loss of money for the customer…
Within my circle of friends, I'm not alone in sole my reason for not buying a new car. It's these goddamn dealer mark-ups. I'm not paying extra just so the dealerships owner can line his/her pockets. I didn't buy an RS because of the dealers mark-up, then they killed it because of low sales. I will drive my NA and my FoST for ten more goddamn years before I pay a dealer mark-up. Yes, I'm salty.
I think anyone who drives should be salty about the massive inflation in both the new and used car market
This whole thing makes me feel good about boycotting dealers.
Every car I've ever bought has been used and private party and that's how I shall continue
I am too. I wish more people were. Either because of bribes or not wanting to upset the fragile "industry" very few car shows/magazines/sites take a firm enough stance. The farthest they go is maybe saying "well, we prefer cars with engines, but the new TeslaLucidRivian whosiwhatsit accelerates very quickly so it's actually awesome!" and it frustrates me no end. I can't stand electric cars, the smug self righteousness of the people who are zealots about them, or worst of all the ignorance that leads these people to be brainwashed into thinking that electric cars are not only not evil (despite the ya know depressing child labor, slavery, and environment-destroying practices needed to produce them), not only okay, but in fact the best thing ever invented and I should be legally persecuted for wanting to drive a mustang and a bmw E36. They're so awful, so soul-less, so unnecessary.
Big companies are who produce most of the pollution. If the earth really was going to melt in ten years then it's too late anyways so who cares, but politicians keep buying beachfront property so clearly it's not going to lol. Electric cars harm the environment massively, the infrastructure isn't in place, they're terrible unpredictable computers that are way too heavy way too hot way too numb and have no driver feedback nor can they be worked on by the average person. It crushes my soul man, so i'll pull up a chair and order a big ol' double helping of salt if it'd make you feel less alone lol
That NA & FoST combo 😍
Get new friends.
I know here in Canada, at one point, a loaded Focus RS was almost 6k more than a well optioned Mustang GT of the same year, new.
That’s F’d up.
I'm very happy to see you guys are talking about this situation. It's actually gotten so much bigger that even the normal people have taken part of this crazy selling of cars. In my area cars with 150k miles on the odometer and 12 years on the car are going for the MSRP that was when the car was sitting on the lot. I can buy a car from a dealership with $10k mark-up and still cheaper than a 2020 model with 40k miles on the vehicle. It's that insane and don't even get me started on manufactured homes going for $100k starting prices and used manufactured homes for sale around $50k and up.
Nolan, I think I am one of the few folks who, in the last 12-15 months got a fantastic deal on a used car. Back in December of 2020 I was in a car accident with my 2012 Mazda5 where the other driver was at fault. Given that my Mazda5 had 100K miles and was not worth very much anyway, I was preparing for insurance to total my car. I have 3 kids and realistically needed a minivan, which the Mazda5 was, for daily transport. Mazda no longer makes the Mazda5, since the 2015 model year, and finding used ones was just not realistic as a direct replacement.
I started looking on Craigslist and at all dealerships selling used cars within 100 miles of where I live in northwestern Vermont. I didn't care about type of van, color, trim level, or options. I just wanted a good condition minivan without an insane number of miles, for a reasonable price. Typically, what I found were a couple different options. I would find a 2017-2019 Toyota Sienna (LE or Limited trim) or Honda Odyssey (EX or EX-L trim) with 50-60K miles for about $30-35K, or I would find a 2017-2019 Dodge Grand Caravan (SXT trim) with 50-60K miles for about $18-20K. There was almost nothing in the middle with lower miles or a different trim level available.
After a week of searching, I did end up finding the vehicle that I subsequently purchased to replace my Mazda5. I found a 2018 Chrysler Pacifica in Touring-L trim, with only 17K miles, for just under $21K. The Pacifica was being sold by a Nissan dealer of all things. They had bought the van at auction and were in the process of repairing a couple recall issues with it, that were known when the Nissan dealer purchased it. The car was originally bought in New Jersey and registered in Brooklyn, NY which probably accounts for the low mileage. But the CARFAX report showed 2 minor accidents in the vehicle history, with all damage repaired, which surely impacted the sales price. I would rate the exterior of the Pacifica at a 9.5/10 when I bought it, while the interior showed a bit more wear and tear for its age, and I would rate it a 7.5/10.
All told, when I bought the car the Nissan dealer had dealt with any recall issues, replaced all the brake rotors and pads, installed a new battery, and put very decent new tires on the stock rims. All this would have easily cost over $1000 to have done by my mechanic. So, at the end of January 2021, I was the proud owner of a very nice Chrysler Pacifica for a fantastic price of about $23K after all the taxes and fees etc. I qualified for 3.24% for 36 months via Capital One Auto through the Nissan dealer and financed about $19,500. This was a lower interest rate than my own credit union was offering on auto loans. I've owned the Pacifica for about 14 months now, and it now has about 27K miles on it. It's easily the nicest, most comfortable, and all-around most useful vehicle I've ever owned. I get about 21MPG city and 27-28MPG highway, which is identical to my old Mazda5, for a vehicle with much more power, performance, space, and capability. I also installed and wired up a class III trailer hitch, so I can easily tow up to 3500 lbs. I really, really love this car.
Chrysler pacifica have extreme frame rusting issues. Fyi. Subframe to be exact. All dodge/Chrysler are junk.
@@skippysvr4586 Yeah, thanks. I'm sure your vehicle shits the bed too. Get bent.
Imagine paying MSRP for a depreciating asset let alone another 15-20k above it. Cant wait to get some good deals on these card in a couple years after they depreciated 50-60%.
If you're concerned about a car's value, don't buy it.
@@JecuskyGarrett That’s the problem I see people getting a 70k car because “ the payment fits their budget” and don’t realize that they will be paying off that car for 8 years and it will end up being worth scrap value and will start the process all over again
@@hankwells2637 As I have stated, if you're concerned about the car's value, present or in the future, don't buy it.
@@JecuskyGarrett if you arent concerned with a cars value, YOU are part of the problem
@@ootmaster1 So you're saying that people who go and buy a car, only to own it for 2 years before deciding to sell it just to go buy another because "it's new", then complaining about the car's value after buying it AREN'T the problem? Yet when I say not to buy a car if they're seriously worried about it depreciating I'm somehow am?
I’ve always found it crazy that we can’t just go to the car companies and buy a car and always have to go through a dealership. It’s always the middle man fucking us.
it's kinda funny how back in the EU, markups are illegal, and pretty much everyone special-order their car (up to a year wait time tho). US dealerships are the absolute worst
I like the idea of that. But what happens if your vehicle gets wrecked or stolen? You're just driving a rental or a used car until yours is complete?
@@jimreuss yes the dealership or your insurance assign you to a rental car / you can buy off a lot if the exact trim and option package is available, or re-order (not so fun). I had a rental for 6 months waiting for my company car (a 218d gran coupe) and some coworkers have a couple Audis, special order, and they have been waiting for a year now (and drive Jeep Renegade rentals in the meantime). Sometimes we face long waits because of import quotas (at least here in France). As a consequence many cars are titled around the end of the month
90% of the time dealers are charging LESS than MSRP (before this mess). And you can still find a lot of dealers who will order one for MSRP if your willing to wait 6 months.
@@frenchyp7b That's nice your insurance covers a rental for that long. My brother in law got rear ended and his car was totaled. I think he had a month max to use a rental car. It was very hard finding a car in the spec he wanted for a price he was willing to pay. Luckily at the time my wife was out of town so I went him my car after his rental had to be returned.
The takeaway here is that America is an oligarchy run by corporations and a handful of extremely rich billionaires. Everything in America is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
Love donut! Always helping everyone out and keeping everyone informed. I just bought a 2021 WRX last week with 400 miles for 32k which is not far off the original value or mileage. I think I got a very good deal in the pricing seeing as every other dealer around me wanted at least 28k for cars with more than 40k miles.
Terrible deal i got a 2021 wrx f
Brand new back in 2020 for 28k
Pretty savage nowadays where 90% sales advisors don’t even walk up to you when you arrive to the lot. I remember the days they wouldn’t leave you alone.
We need to abolish the law that prevents Manufacturer straight to Consumer.
It’s the only way these Dealerships will stop ripping off consumers.
More competition and options will be the only answer to stabilize this market.
Interesting that this video came up as a suggestion for me, right after I was looking at how Tesla raised their prices by $3k since last Tuesday. The Tesla Model Y LR was at one point 48k last year, but as of today, the same model is $63k.
If people are willing to pay 63k then Tesla will sell it at 63k
This makes so much sense - I've been watching people trying to buy cars this past year or so, and hardly anyone can get their cars at MSRP. Just in 2018, I was able to get my car at MSRP without the most difficult bargaining. So crazy how it is now, and I'm super curious how it'll pan out. I just feel lucky to have been able to purchase when I did! Thank you for such a thorough and understandable explanation!
I got my 22 civic new off the delivery truck for msrp no barganing in august just after it came out in a classic walk in scenario. I got lucky. I was looking for a newer vehicle (i needed something reliable for work and was tired of my shitbox failing) and it was the only one within 100 miles of where i live for the price point i could afford that was new. That car woulda soldwithin 2 days if i didnt buy it then because it was the only civic that was delivered without being a preorder from that dealer at the time
@@insertname941 nice! The civic is one of the cars I was hinting at in my comment, since I follow the 11th gen Facebook group and it's very common to see the up-pricing for these cars. At it's intended price I think it's an excellent car! But when I see how much dealers are making people pay, I'm like, the buyer might as well get a way nicer car 😅 Congrats on the civic, and esp for getting it at MSRP!
Paid $5500 over msrp on an ioniq 5. And that was after fighting for hours to eliminate several thousand in BS add ons they didn't want to remove... Can we be done with dealers already?
Hate to be that guy man but the fact that you actually paid the markup means you're part of the problem. If dealers suddenly saw that a markup meant that a car didn't sell they'd stop doing it. Though I can understand if you suddenly really did need a car, in which case, sorry bro, tough luck.
I was looking at a EV6 and our dealer had a 10k markup on the three they had in stock. The salesman didnt even flinch when he told me the price. I flat out asked him isn’t the goal to sell as many as possible so this is a long produced model. He couldn’t answer the question. The Stinger that was next to it also had a 10k markup. It’s a joke.
Lol. Nah, he was just annoyed that the 4th person that day asked him the same dumbass question like they were the only ones to think of it.
If you sell all your inventory in a week, but the next stock delivery doesn't come till next month, now you have an empty lot and potential customers think you ain't getting cars. You literally lose business for selling a many as possible.
My dad went to a ford dealer since his old one finally conked out. Anyway the guy was trying to sell us an F150 for 60k, much to his dismay we found that we could order a new F250 for just over 59k at a much lower markup with more features and a 7.3 directly from the factory through the dealer. Its a 3 month wait but worth it. This video made me think of that.
This seems to be going both ways though honestly, the local dealer I got my Mariner from has been sending me offer letters to buy the vehicle back at well above the current MSRP/Value. I'm sure they'll sell it for even more but honestly I probably won't ever get close to that much even with restoration and preservation. Obviously I'm keeping this thing til the wheels fall off but if I start to see anything critical coming up soon I'm gonna jump on that offer and wash my hands for a profit 😂
Depends on what you drive, if it’s appealing to the market. My car barely gets back what I paid for if I do a trade in for my brand new dream car
I had developed a great relationship with my local Audi dealership, a particular sales guy that had helped me out, in particular. When they were launching the RS6 Avant, he even let me know when they were getting an allocation for one, and due to my repeat business were going to waive their dealer markup. Their default markup on this model was $50k over sticker price. Obviously declined, but they did eventually sell it, including that crazy markup. This was even prior to COVID, and the supply chain issues. Markup was merely due to the limited initial production numbers.
Dude! Literally identical situation happened to me! I was offered an RS6 at sticker, didn’t take it. The exact car I was looking at has since been sold, bought back by the dealer and is up for sale for higher than original MSRP as low mileage CPO… insane.
Just looking at the figure made my stomach drop. The markup alone is the price of a decent car.
"repeat business". I would love to know how much money you've wasted buying or leasing new audis.
@@TheBajamin More than you can afford obviously
@@TheBajamin Are you Scotty Kilmer?
An intelligent & insightful observation...trying living in Australia with our mark ups...911 2019 GT2 RS Auto..7000km (approx 4000 miles) $729 000 AUD...USD 525000
I bought a 2022 Ram 1500 in December... Obviously I paid way more than I should have given that the same truck 10 years ago was about half the price, but I did my research and found a dealership that didn't have a markup before I went out. Several dealerships were listing at $10k over the MSRP, but I got mine at MSRP price, so it wasn't so bad
Advanced tech gets expensive for sure.
7:44 putting the dealership that screwed me over on blast! FREAKING LOVE IT!!!
For those of your who don't know, that article was from All American Ford in Old Bridge, New Jersey
Hitting the nail on the head. And it's not only the markups that hurt the brands, it's the very poor customer service one often gets for maintenance at a dealership.
Also, gotta say Nolan keeps getting better and better as a host. Clear, consive and fun. Be kind!
Dealers need to die off.
Automakers need to sell direct and let dealers be the used market.
Also, imagine GM saying "unethical" 🤣
Honestly there's a reason this happens mostly in the US.
In other parts of the world dealers have inventory (40-60 cars) but most people don't expect to enter walking and come out driving the same day.
People place orders and wait a few days for his car to arrive, if it's something not so popular or an unusual configuration you as a costumer already know it will take a while because they are locating that unit, or they are ordering to be produced as you wanted.
The customer expectation of immediate delivery directed dealerships to place enormous orders to factory and have a huge stock of cars and THAT creates another problem.
There's a guy at every dealership group that gets paid to place orders to factory so dealerships have inventory. This job position unwillingly damaged the American car market forever. So this guy -who doesn't want to be fired- has to order hundreds of cars a month and his boss expects to sell most if not all of them for the end of the month or quarter.
If that was your job which cars would you pick?
Exaclty! The most boring, predictable, best selling POS in the best selling trim with the most popular options. Even if this dude was a car guy, he will never risk his job for having a manual or a wagon that doesn't sell in that short period, so despite the efforts of manufacturers promote a bold new car it won't sell if dealers won't order it. So if you as a customer want one you are screwed. The dealership wants to sell what's in stock so your order goes to an undefined date and the dealer will try to change your mind. Most people eventually settle with the closest thing to what they wanted; so the dealer and the order guy got what they wanted the only one who didn't is you, the customer driving of the dealership somewhat happy with your brand new automatic silver mid size SUV.
Makeups happen because the dealership has to capitalize on the risk of buying/ allocating those hundreds and hundreds of cars per dealership. The thing is now even that silver mid size SUV is scarce so everything has a markup.
TL;DR dealership inventories way smaller-> people get used to order cars-> dealer can't flex on having X model others don't-> customer gets exactly what he wants-> markup is way less effective and likely.
Also doesn't help that it's illegal for auto manufacturers to directly sell to consumers. Imagine if it was legal and you could just custom order whatever you want directly. Oh wait, that's exactly what's happening in most of the rest of the world.
@@noseboop4354 As I see it dealerships are supposed to give service to the final customer al let the manufacturer just focus on making cars but if dealers hoard inventories it becomes a problem. On the other side brands like Tesla struggle to service customers without a dealership and there have been a lot of issues about it.
Maybe redesigned business model would be better for both.
The synopsis at 9:00 is one of the best I've heard. Well done Donut 👍
Yeah sounds like I’ll be enjoying my 2018 fiesta ST for the next 10 years😅
It’s a good thing I was able to get it before these mark ups on used cars hit back in late 2020
ST GANG! Also, I didn't buy a RS because dealers were smoking crack. Eventually, I stopped caring and kept my FoST. Fuck em.
@@PjPjPaul hell yeah ST gang!
Yeah I know what you mean the prices are ridiculous! I mean do t get me wrong the RS is amazing but not what the cost is now especially them already all being a used car🤦🏽♀️
I’ll stick with my FiST for now! Especially with gas prices I’m scared to see what the future holds for cars😭
I bought a great condition, 75k mile, manual, T-Top, all stock '96 Z28 for $5k last Summer and it has convinced me that I won't be interested in modern cars again until this dealership bullshit stops.
There are old, fun cars and trucks out there for dirt cheap if you're willing to do the groundwork. And they're REALLY cheap if you're willing to give something a little TLC.
The tricky thing about that is TLC is usually far from dirt cheap, even if you get the chassis for pennies
@@intrepidmixedmedia7939 You're right, however, TLC vs Repairs and Restoration though... when I say TLC, I mean maybe the paint needs some work, maybe the interior is a little beat up or missing some pieces etc; things that you can take care of for relatively cheap, if you're patient and resourceful... things that turn people away and force the seller to take less, ya know?
If you buy a $2500 car that at least runs, and you put $4000 into making it truly road-worthy and visually presentable, it's still only a $6500 car.
I got lucky with the Camaro, in that it really only needed some hoses, which I knew before buying it.
I work for a large bank and we won’t even fund a contract if the dealer’s invoice for a new vehicle is higher or even equal to MSRP. Didn’t know dealers did this until the past few years. Been working here since before I was in the market for a new car and I’m still not in the market but when I am glad I fully know the ins and outs of the process.
I remember when John Deere sent their white collar workers to the production floor, they didn't even make it to 8am on the first day before an ambulance was called in.
Dude this is the best thing I’ve seen all day
The wife and I recently bought a 2022 Ford Explorer ST and while I was totally expecting the dealer to throw a mark-up on it. They didn't. They pretty much sold me the car at MSRP. The crazy part in the whole deal was my trade-in. I traded in a 2020 Kia Soul X-line with about 11K miles. I paid about 18K for that Kia (all in...TTL, etc etc) when I bought it brand new off the lot. When I traded it in....they gave me over 20K for it. So I bought that Kia new...drove it for several years...put 11K miles on it and other than some maintenance here and there...it cost me $0 over 2 years.
That is epic man!
Had a similar experience. Bought my 2022 Ram 1500 and traded in my 2017 Mazda 3. I paid $20k for the Mazda (GT fully loaded) and the dealership gave me $16k for it. It had 71000 miles on it and had hit a deer, requiring front end work. Used car market is crazy right now. The dealership ended up selling that Mazda for $21k
@@stickshift13 Yeah...it was pretty insane to get paid more for the car used than I paid for it brand new.
@@DolphinsFanInVA 100% agree on the used car market. When we were doing the research into the buying the Explorer I kept checking on what my Kia was worth and I was simply amazed by the fact that the value on it kept going UP....not down and going up by a thousand or so here and there. I mean I had offers from places like Carmax and such of 22-23K for it. But in the end the Ford dealer gave me more than I paid for it so it was worth it (to me) to just sell it to them than to try and get a few extra K by dealing with selling it on my own first.
@@daleleonard6475 Thats true also many kia dealers are charging almost 10k markups on the telluride!! almost hitting 60k!
Don't forget about the delivery companies like Caravan and Vroom. Those are bad 'cause they make it hard to find out what happens. So there's only 2 options for those kind of companies. Either give the current vehicle that you have for them to hold as they always say. Or give a minimum payment to "try" out a vehicle for about a week or 2. Then they say that you can try another vehicle within that time period. They also never disclose how many vehicles you can try out or if you can ever get that money back if you can't find the correct vehicle or correctly priced one after trying the ones in your price range out. I don't think that you can get your money back 'cause if you're talking to a representative of one of these companies and you're doing the "hold your current vehicle" option and you ask if you get your vehicle back, they say that you will not get it back. So it seems odd to ask someone if you'll get your vehicle back if they tell you that they're gonna hold onto your current vehicle. So I don't understand how it's legal for these companies to say that they're gonna hold your vehicle while you try one out if once they get your vehicle, they're never gonna give it back...
It wasn’t the *’Ford Focus’* that opened up my consciousness of dealership markups…it was the *’C8 Stingray 3LT Corvette’.* Since then and since gas prices has gone up (and since the Bronco got marked up 😭😭😭) I’ve been walking, skateboarding, relying on public transportation and crying 🤣💯
I went to the dealership because I was considering the Ford E Transit and they aren't even taking orders for them at the moment and saying maybe in 2023! There was a 2018 Ford Transit on the lot that had 130000km on it and was listed at the SAME SELLING PRICE AS ITS ORIGINAL SALE PRICE !
Well Nolan, here is an example. I bought a used Chevy Bolt in January of 2021. $17K. Exactly a year later my wife bought a used Chevy Bolt and it cost her $30K. I was left scratching my head and wondering, "what just happened?" Both cars were the exact same age when we bought them and both cars had about the same mileage. So, in short. Thank you for explaining it to us. Keep up the good work. We love watching your videos.
Me who has 1.34$ in my pocket
Me : yeah that is why i don't have a car.
Isn’t that normal? your name sounds Indian.
@@fliegenmann2562 spotted the racist lmao
It's up to consumers more than manufacturers, as they ultimately regulate the market. It's informative videos like this that educate consumers to not pay these outrageous amounts, good job Donut!
Great video! Car manufacturers having our interests? BAHAHA!!! Sold cars twice in my career, never knew what a car really cost, manufacturer incentives were unknown. Didn't know if the dealer was lowballing a trade in. And then in the finance office, whoa, points, rates, add-ons, and last and the most, those extra warranties. Not to mention the dealer applied pin stripes, "3M paint protection" (hundreds for a few bucks of tape), vinyl roofs (back in the day). Here there's a Subaru dealer with a bump of thousands, their "family price" that includes paint treatment, some protection add-on, car washes, service specials and a rebate on your next purchase from them!
We need to make it legal for automakers to sell direct to consumers.
Ran into a lot of this stuff last year. My parents needed to buy a car after a crash. Used, boring econo-boxes are above 30k now, and some used 2019 models were more expensive than their brand new counterparts.
This is literally what made me finally pull the trigger and buy a Tesla. Got in an accident and had to buy a new car. Was looking to spend about $25k for a car. Dealerships were marking trash up like $10-$20k. If I had to pay $35k for a comprimise shitbox I might as well spend a bit extra for the car I wanted. Went home and placed an order for a Tesla. Took like 5 min. 2 months to get the car tho, lol
@@frozenbacon given the current state of oil prices, that's pretty good timing to switch to EV.
@@frozenbacon All according to the plan. Eat the bugs.
@@frozenbacon Tesla requires you to buy the $10K autopilot or they will tack 3 months onto your delivery. And months more if you want to buy a low spec car. Better yet, they are jacking up pricing while reporting lower production costs. You bought a 60K car to save money?
@@frozenbacon Yeah don't get into an accident now. Not sure you'd ever actually get the car repaired. Good luck.
thanks for the video nolan good topic. I've got crazy positive equity on my current vehicles but have decided to keep them both due to markups crowding me out of the new car market.
There is also legislation in many states requiring you to buy new cars from dealerships. Such a corrupt system
I love how there is a supply chain issue. But every manufacturer was able to create all new EV cars. But couldn't build cars they already make cause of supply issues 🤔
Artificial scarcity
So, dealers are sitting on a secret stash of unsold cars for... reasons?
They are creating and offering a new car is easy, but as a consumer actually getting one is a different story generally 8-12 months on any vechile right now ICE or EV seems ot be the standard
Car development generally takes around 5 years for a standard, new model. You're telling me that GM, Ford, VW, etc., spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing vehicles to just not sell them? Because . . . they like losing money?
Different parts? Different locations? Come on
Man this is so crazy, glad to see the video on it
I got an Red/Black 2019 Alltrack SE 6Sp (brand new) for about 7 under MSRP in late 2019
"Manufacturers are worried markups are costing them sales."
Hm. That's a weird way to say manufacturers want the markup action for themselves...
Too high, sales will suffer. As much markups are attractive, it's a double edged sword.
They are losing sales to other manufacturers
I’d never buy new unless I hit the lotto
The used market followed these prices also. Unless you are in the junker car market. Those cars still cost the same.
I've noticed that looking at cars for sale in smaller towns are actually lower too! Like they get less sales, but know no-one in their little town will pay the price so they keep them fair! Especially with used hybrids or evs
As someone who has been trying to save up money to buy a home it seems impossible to buy a decently priced home here in California. Areas that are not even popular have sky rocketed in price. There's this neighborhood that just 2 years ago average home was $300k now those homes are over $850k. Seems to me I will continue to live out of my Honda Element for a bit longer.
Move to a state & area that respects your wallet.
Midwest is cheap living
The information on how manufacturers allocate cars really hit home for me. It's no wonder I've been waiting 4 months for my dealer to get an allocation for a Camaro 2SS 1LE that I ordered back in mid-November. I could try to find something somewhere else, but my local dealer is discounting $500 off of MSRP, so I want to give them the business.
Just about everyone who buys a Camaro, regardless of trim, seems to have a very positive experience in regards to both price and service. Drivers never seem to have mark-ups on Camaros but you'll be waiting for some time.
I recently bought a 1998 Volkswagen Passat Wagon GLS (B5) with 173,000 miles and she runs great. 5 speed shifts really smooth, engine runs healthy and the paint looks fantastic for being the 24 year-old original paint. No codes after sitting for 2 years, and maintenanced at Dirito Bros VW it’s whole life. The furthest it’s been is Illinois so this thing troops. Bought this thing in California for $2,500 and after searching more, I can’t find another B5 in this condition for the price. I’ve been driving it around for about a month now and I love it. Compared to some other cars my friends have i’d say this thing was a STEAL for the price. Love all you guys at Donut, keep doin’ your thing.
I must be in the minority unless what I did counts as "directly from ford" in some way.
I wanted a manual mustang, searched and looked around but was disgusted by the used car market at the time; this was back in July of last year.
After several used car dealerships + carvana gave me TERRIBLE experiences trying to get a car I just said screw it I'll buy a new one.
So I got on Ford's website, build the mustang I wanted, and called my local ford dealership to discuss it. Later that day I put in an order for the car.
MSRP was $31,000 and 2 months later when the car was built I walked out of the dealership paying $28,500.
You didn't go direct to ford. They just found you one at a dealer or the dealer picked it up from another
You can order cars and thats normal but you used a dealer as a middle man still. It went ford->dealer->you.
@@catinthehat5140 No, I ordered the specific car I wanted. that car was then built, delivered to my local dealership, which I picked up and paid for.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 Right, because you can't order directly from Ford with it being a manufacturer, which I understand.
Was just curious as to why I had no markups, no dealer fees, and even received money off MSRP for what the dealership referred to as "compensation" for waiting 2 months on the car I ordered to be built and delivered.
Moreso I guess this is me wondering if other dealerships will do that kind of thing is that the best way to try to get a new car, if you have the time to wait obviously.
@@OrionX3 A.) Congrats! B.) Perhaps your specific configuration was so--specific--it wouldn't be something that a dealer could easily sell for a higher price.
I'm located in Atlanta Georgia and just recently got a Mustang Mach E back in February that was on its way to the dealership. I didn't get charged this market adjustment luckily. I have noticed used 2022 vehicles with 9 miles alot online in the recent days. Seems to be a way around markups for "new" vehicles.
That's always been a way for dealers to price gouge hot ticket items. When the R35 GTR came out in 2009 or whenever, most dealerships only got one or two per year. The 'dealership' (or owner of the dealership) would buy the car at msrp, drive it around the block a few times, then sell it used for 20 or 30 grand over the msrp because there was nearly no chance at actually finding a new one for sale.
Dealership scumbaggery has been around since the start.
Very good video and conversation. I got sucked in and bought a new Honda Civic Type R in Aug 2021 for 60k and now I am regretting it big time. I knew I was overpaying but it was a super bad move. I called and drove all over southern California and Arizona and could not find a single one that was not marked up. It was already hard finding that car let alone finding one the least marked up. I can't seam to get rid of it for anything close to what I owe. I am stuck until its paid off most likely. And that whole sales pitch you can refi the car in 6-12 months... Ya that's not possible now since I am so upside down.
They're selling base-model C8's for $100k. A base-model, no wing C8 for $43,000 more than it should.
Who the hell even has that kind of cash for a base-model c8? The older gueezers don't want the young ones to enjoy these sports cars, huh.
No WING OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!
@@bindingcurve I said no wing because having no wing means it's the base model, dummy.
@@KermitOfWar Guy said it was because of the tornado that killed a few C8's. A few C8's get destroyed in a tornado and all of a sudden the base-models are $100k.
@@anynonymous1585 troll or stupid. Wings are a separate item with the exception of the low wing on the z51 package.