EFR7163 vs EFR7670
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- We were asked to compare these turbochargers as they are very popular amongst the turbo kit manufacturers, and from our stable too. These two turbocharger are loaded guns! Literally lightning fast boost response, long linear power curves and torque is produced extremely efficiently compared to the other OEM brands. The EFR range has alot of features that arent seen by other manufacturers. The attention to detail is unmatched - watch out for the install of one of these on our shop Golf7R coming up soon.
Awesome content on turbochargers, not seen any other channel that talks about this tech like Chris does!
Thank you. 👍🏻
Thanks for the compliment -much appreciated.
This is the best turbo video I’ve seen
Thanks Alex
Really great information as always! Maybe next time you're talking about that particular engine, give a 20 sec intro about it for those that aren't familiar with it (yup, me).
Tell me what you would like to know and ill do a video for you.
On the 7163 turbo , what RPM range would you start to see the difference in torque between the T4 .8 vs the V band .85 , thanks for your advice #newB,
Also can you show compressor maps for these two
Your explanations are very informative and clear especially for those of us who are now learning , certainly feel lots less lost when I watch your vids, absolutely great stuff 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks a ton for your video! Super informative! I am now picking between pair of 7163s, 7670s or 8370s (bigger brother of 7670) for my 2018 F90 M5 (4.4l v8 - each turbo paired w. 2.2l 4 pot). Target is 1200crank and it’s a daily so I’m leaning towards 7163s w. 0.85 A/R v band as there will be sizable difference in spool/transient response between the 7163 and it’s bigger brothers right? Do you agree or would you recommend something else?
And - 2nd part of the question - on 7163s I planned to go with external 38mm tial gates (0.85 A/R v band style) as opposed to internally gated same 0.85 A/R v band. In your video when talking on 7670 you recommended internal over external gate. Would you still recommend internal gate on 7163? And why? Thanks a ton!!!!! Subbed for more
I love that these turbos are actually named logically instead of total nonsense, hahaha. Also still crazy the value you get with the internal wastegate and integrated diverter valve.
Also holy crap was just looking at the efficiency range of the EFR 6258 and it's absolutely crazy. 74% from 170HP to 370HP and 0.6 bar to 2.2 bar. That has to be such a fun turbo on a nice 4 cylinder setup.
@@802Garage Exactly - although the "fashion" call for multi blade compressors, the 7blade splitter design is still superior in certain aspects. Glad to see you now looking at compressor maps differently - :-)
@@TurboDirectSA You've taught me an incredible amount already! :D
@@802Garage Glad to hear that -
Thank you! I have been looking for information for these two turbos, i appreciate the details. You got a subscriber. Keep it coming, i wish i could buy from you guys in the U.S...
Thank you for the compliment - you welcome. We do export by the way. :-)
@@TurboDirectSA well then, once the cylinder heads are done...we will be in contact for the 7163
Very informative video once again, thanks !
Pleasure -glad you enjoy these vids.
Got my eye on that EFR turbo with the T3 inlet....would make my SAAB REAL DANDY!!
Thats for sure - will wake up that SAAB for sure, and if you not careful break drivetrain ... LOL
@@TurboDirectSA Yes beefing the Gearbox is definitely in the werks. Practically a must!!
Awesome explanations of the compressor map and differences between the the two types of housings for the 7163, I had read in one of the comments section from another video of yours that you could offer a different compressor for the 7163 to take it all the way to 650hp capable. A video on this would be very interesting, especially if not much response is lost in the process. Also I was wondering how you could get the benefits of using the larger a/r 7163 on an engine other than the EA888, I understand the your swirl adapter plays a large part in increasing the response of the turbo with the larger .85 a/r compared to the twin scroll .80.
Ryan we do offer larger wheel BUT IT MUST be used together with the AR85 turbine housing with the lower backpressure in order to make the higher power. its simply a larger inducer(up from 57mm to 59mm) and exducer (up from 71mm to 76mm)
@@TurboDirectSA
can the 7163 use the 7670 compressor cover???
@@strokerz2858 Will have to measure the backplate to confirm, if the backplates are the same, then yes, but the obvious wheel diameter differences are the other issue.
@@TurboDirectSA
hi
do you think that the EFR
compressor cover is the restrictions of air flow
EFR 7670 compressor is .50 a/r
EFR 8474 compressor is .52 a/r
than you
good work 👍
@@strokerz2858 Great question, and one i et often related to AR's.... always remember the AR digit itself means nothing in determining the size of the housing - the AR relates to the family of housings. An AR60 in the T3 family range, is smaller than an AR50 in the T4 range ---- look physically at the volute on the two housings you comparing for the 7670 and 8474 - the 8474 is much larger, yet only AR52 compared to the AR50 from the 7670..... get my drift?
When planning a build - you dont buy a turbo to mate your manifold - you buy or build the manifold to suit the correct turbo setup. The AR92 is too large for the engine if response is what you need. The 7163 with T4 turbine housing is too small, and will generate massive amounts of heat o such a large engine above 0.8-1.0bar gauge pressure.
What a wealth of knowledge you are. I've been driving Turbo diesels or twin Turbo 3.5 for years and I know squat. And now I am understanding that I can't buy from you because I'm in the US??
Ofcourse you can buy from TurboDirect S.A - shipping internationally is easy.
@@TurboDirectSA Would you please shoot me a number on a pair of the 800 horse borgs Seeing as I can't have one yours in time.
@@johnhoward6551 Borg dont have anything bolt on --- universal EFR8370 or 8474 are off the shelf. I would also suggest a set of these:-
store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/g3076r1-forged-detail
How laggy would a t4 flanged 1.05 ar twin scroll turbined 7670 be on a 2.0 turbo that winds upward of 9500 rpm be? Love your content because you take the time to explain the various intricacies and nuances of turbochargers.
Thank you for the compliment - glad you find value in what we do. The engine revs high, giving you a large band to play in. Depending on the gearbox and final drive ratio, the AR1.05 housing together with a decent manifold design, you will have no problems at all - you will see full boost (thumb suck - depends on tuning, fuel, boost level etc etc) around 4250-5000RPM - giving you a wide RPM band to play with.
@@TurboDirectSA You are very welcome Chris. Would I be better off with a larger turbo like an EFR 8374 with a smaller ar.? I've seen a few aftermarket turbine housing in the .8-.9ar. range. I'm aiming for 650-680 whp on a modest 28-30psi of boost, utilizing gasoline and methanol. The turbo manifold is a proper "ram horn" style header, with generous size tubing. Again thanks so much for your response Chris, we need more people like you in this industry.
@@twistedturbotwistedturbo Im assuming this is a Honda engine with the high RPM band you mentioned earlier - for this type of high revving engine, a larger turbo with a higher air flow volume will work very well, and will make more power at lower boost levels. I doubt you will see 650WHP at low boost like 28-30PSI - but a larger turbo will be a better bet to get you closer to this than a smaller unit on a higher revving engine. Glad to help.
@@TurboDirectSA Its actually an old 6 bolt 4G63 that's been fortified. Thanks again.
@@twistedturbotwistedturbo The 4G63 is easily able to spool larger turbochargers, using a slightly larger turbine housing AR will work well on this engine - especially with such a high RPM band - i would be looking at the AR92 twin scroll turbine housing on the 8370, or 8474
Excellent video
Thank you for the compliment
What would you recommend between the 7670 and 7163 for a 3.3L Nissan VG33ET 9:1 CR revving to 6800rpm. Target is 450-500hp with as little lag as possible. I was looking to use the twin scroll 7163 with .80 AR housing. Will that combo be too small for this engine setup? Can't figure out if I will be choking the motor out dramtically. Thanks in advance
Without a doubt 7670 - use the AR82 turbine housing. The motor is large in CID - it will overspeed the 7163 from around 4800rpm upwards and generate enormous heat.
@@TurboDirectSA Thankyou for the quick response!! Really appreciate all the content you upload
@@alextroughton4208 Anytime. Glad you enjoying the content
Great channel! Subscribed!
Thank you !!
Awesome video. I was watching this to help in deciding a turbo for my CA18DET. Then you were talking about EA888 engines and I'm like; I have one of those too :-D. Do the exhaust housings bolt to or is a turbine housing available that would bolt to a standard aftermarket downpipe that fits the IS38 or would a custom downpipe need to be made for an EA888 engine?
Thanks for the compliment, Depending on which DP you have, some bolt directly onto the EFR7163 when installed with the swirl adapter.
what would be the better choice out of these two for a sti ej207 steet/track car tryna make around 500 to 600 hp, efr 7163 or efr7670 and if its the 7163 would the twinscroll be better or the v-band? thanks.
Hello from Greece 2015 project gtx 2867 .86 ar gen 1,very happy 100-240 in 12'' have 440 whp @ 6700 in a 2 liter forged Skoda motor red line 7300 @ 420whp 80 cm exhaust ,hellcat525 pump . What you recommend for replacement......between 7163 and 7670 for 600 whp and at what rpm will spool 2 bar?
I would consider the EFR8370 instead - this is a true 750HP capable turbo and will spool fast and make the power you want and more.
Hello !
What would you recommend between the 7670 and 7163 for a 2.8L BMW M20 9:0 CR reving to 6500rpm. Target is 375-425whp with as little lag as possible. I am planning to buy twin scroll 7163 0.80 AR. I'm affraid to go 7670 and have more lag, big power is not my goal. I want the largest power band. So quick spool over big hp.
tx
the 7163 will work perfectly BUT you must choose the largest AR turbine housing which is the Vband housing. This will spool up very fast, and produce the power you need.
@@TurboDirectSA hello, Thanks for your answer, the thing is, i already bought a T4 exhaust manifold.
The largest A/R turbine housing is 0,85 Vband as your say and it wont fit my build.
is it a big deal if i run 0.8A/R instead of 0.85 ?
Or i Have the choice with 7670 turbo, 0.92A/R twinscroll ? i guess you will say it will worl but with lag ?
What is a solution to the EFR-7163 smoking at WOT?!? Love the turbo, but the smoking issue is ridiculous. Please help!
Something is wrong - the turbo will not smoke on its own. The drain must either be blocked, and/or not directed downward for gravity to drain the oil, or the ID is too small, or you have blow by in the cylinders, or the oil level is too high, or a breather is blocked. If you seeing oil "pulling" through the air filter intake, then the filter could be too restrictive..... Start with these common areas and work your way through.
@@TurboDirectSA Resolved my issue! Ended up being a missing gasket on my oil cap! Who would’ve thought.
@@fred_b_360 The pressure system was compromised - which prevented the oil from draining back into the block/sump -- back to basics.....
Glad you found the problem - well done
I would really love a video on comparison of the 7163 and 7064 because power output is the same. our their any benefits choosing one over the other.
Check the compressor maps between these two turbos and you will see the 7163 actually produces more power. The compressor wheel is a very different size between these two turbos, and the turbine wheel for some reason is 1mm larger on the inducer side with the 7064. You will see the 7163 actually produces 50HP more than the 7064.
@@TurboDirectSA doed 7064 have a lower backpressure to boost ratio because it has a t3 style housing
@@natebass1482 Where there is a lower backpressure, you want to increase the compressor flow capacity, which is not the case with the 7064 - Borg have switched to a smaller compressor entirely. It will spool fast, but in my opinion for most applications 1600 - 2400cc 4cyl engines the 7163 with its housing options work well across the range of anything 500HP up to 600HP.
For a larger engine say 3000 V6 2valve per cyl - the 7064 would work well with the larger (less responsive) turbine housings.
@@TurboDirectSA thank you for the fast response. With the 7163 is there any issue with overboosting or does a turbo smart wastegate relieve alot of that
@@natebass1482 Overboosting? The internal gate works extremely well - no reason to worry. No need for an external gate
I have an A5 CDNC (EA888.2) what turbo/exhaust manifold would you recommend hope to be in the 500 WHP range, has been difficult to find options for longitudinal mounting in my case.
Thanks for the question. Im not familiar with this engine code specifically, but for this HP output and for the best streetable response nothing beats the EFR7163. Its small enough to install into tight geography, and will spool faster than any other turbo in its class. This turbo produces 550WHP on the EA888.3 engines.
@@TurboDirectSA is basically the 211cv ea888 gen 2 but as most of the offerings are for transverse mount engine would like to know if there is any exhaust manifold that could work on a longitudinal mounted ea888 that I have
@@ebotas If the head design is the same as the EA888.3 then you can use the Swirl Adapter :- ruclips.net/video/y6PA_Xc0feI/видео.html
I have a 2.0 DIT Subaru engine.... I had a 7064....then a 7670... ~36psi... both single scroll setups. it's time for another rebuild...was considering going to the single scroll 7163 ewg... will i be sad and disappointed? or will it spool up significantly faster than the 7670? tryin to debate what to do.
It will spool alot faster than the 7670 - BUT it will not make as much power up top in comparison.
I would just go twinscroll ewg on the 7670 imo
@@dujuanjohnson5025 I went with single scroll 8474 :o twin scroll is too much trouble to make work for my platform/space available.
When will you guys have these in stock? Do you have kits for a Fa20 build?
Building a 408 LS stroker and want to run twin turbos. What do you recommend?
Thanks for the comment - what HP target? Street car, drag, circuit?
About 1500.
@@TurboDirectSA drag only hopefully
Thank you for great information. some companies make turbine manifold with A/R 0.64 for the EFR7163, specially for Golf MK6R. From your experience can I still get 550-580 hp on this turbine housing? and how much horse power can I make with this turbine housing. Thanks
Thanks for the comment Mohamed, there is no reason to manufacture such a small AR for this turbo because it spools so fast as it is - ASSUMING that this is an AR64 in the same T28 family volute. If so, then you will definitely lose power ontop and you will see an ESTIMATE (tuning dependant, boost, hardware mods, fuel, etc) of around 30-50HP less.
@@TurboDirectSA Thanks clear enough, one last question please, what if the turbine housing is 0.7 a/r. how much horse power I'll be losing ?
We are talking about EA113 TFSI engine , it's not as good as EA888 gen3 engine, which its cylinder head efficiency is way better than the EA113. Thanks
@@mdorgham Its impossible to say - as mentioned before the HP depends on the engines ability to "process" the incoming flow from the turbo. Thats why VE is the most important aspect of plotting a compressor map.
I wouldn't use any other AR housings other than the Borg offering even on the EA113 engine - they are more than adequate to spool fast and they are matched to the rotating assembly.
@@TurboDirectSA noted
Good info for a noob like me
i just see how dealer-companys adjust results and dyno and nothing more, dyno numbers can be wrong
Many do this, we have no reason to be dishonest.
@@TurboDirectSA so because im saying dyno is nothing, for example 450 whp can beat 600 whp car, because second car have a wrong tyres, so for what need a dyno numbers if logic is not directly? i mean perfomance-logic
Great information! What would your thoughts be on an EFR7163 for a VVTi - 1JZ, stock camshafts and e85, for a drift application. I was originally planning on a Garrett g30 - 660 or 770. Thanks.
Dont waste your time on Garrett- the 7163 will outspool the G30 series easily, and with the AR85 Vband turbine housing the turbo will make 500-550WHP easily. If this falls into your HP category its the best option - it runs cooler, slower and makes the claimed power.
Awesome, thank you very much!
@@JWB.engineer Pleasure sir
Wow man,ive driving turbo diesls or 3.5 twin turbos since the 90s and realize i know squat. What a wealth of knowledge you are sir. Pardon but damit boy am i just understanding that i cant buy from you me being in the us????
@@TurboDirectSA I have a 7163 EFR on a 1jz/vvti and only saw 402hp @5800 altitude my tuner says I'm out of turbo so unfortunately it did not make rated hp
which efr series would work well on stroked 5.3 ls?
Depending on what HP target - there are a a variety of different Airwerks options for you.
@@TurboDirectSA is the efr 7670 or 8474 comparable to the precision 7675 ?
@@shandyellis-brown8091 The PT7675 is journal bearing, and the EFR are all dual ball bearing. The 7675 is a cast compressor wheel, the EFR are top of the line products, the precision product cannot hold a candle to the EFR range. None of the precision turbochargers have burst containment tested end housings, BorgWarner does. Reliability, boost response and the overall feature list on the EFR range is light years ahead of precision.
@@TurboDirectSA yes, ok, which efr is comparable to the size of the 7675, or better yet suggest to me a efr that's good for 1000-1200 hp? for a stroked 5.3 ls.....looking to 1/8th mile this ls,
ive used precisions dbb gen 2's on my buicks for years, but watching your series on the efr,, im really interested in running one of these!
efr7670 can produce 650 whp?! come on, it is not true, it 62 lb/min turbo only
The EFR7163 has produced 550WHEEL HP on our dyno on an EA888.3 - it is rated to 54lb/min. We have seen these results in person on a handful of dynamometers around the country.
The EFR7670 will produce the goods - wait and see, an install is coming up soon.
@@TurboDirectSA no matter dyno numbers, it means nothing
@@TurboDirectSA what engine? and what about 100-200 dynamic 550 whp in 7163?
@@Arss-ast Dyno numbers mean as much as lb/min air flow numbers - clear proof of the results.
@@Arss-ast Watch the video - it clearly mentioned EA888.3 - times from 100-200kmh with the EFR7163 are freely available on APR web page - why dont you go take a look, they using the same turbocharger on their bolt on kit.