Guild Wars Versus World Of Warcraft
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Two MMO titans from late 2004 duke it out, and 15 years later I'm telling the tale as I see it.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Video Introduction
2:03 WoW / GW Cinematic Mashup
3:50 Comparison Introduction
8:36 Game Comparison Reasoning
15:11 GW as CO-RPG vs MMORPG
16:33 Questing & Philosophies
31:48 Immersion
45:00 Environments / World Size
1:02:19 Setting & Plot
1:15:53 Multiplayer & Endgame
1:30:57 Game Access / Servers
1:36:13 Combat
1:52:50 Presentation (Graphics, Animation, Etc.)
2:01:27 Social Elements
2:09:10 PvP (Player vs Player)
2:13:06 Feature Comparison & Missing Features
2:27:36 Conclusion
2:35:08 Outro
This should get pinned
Thanks king
2:25:53 Mini map Penises
Legend.
You Sir, are an absolute Legend.
Last video had 94 seconds of overlapping commentary, I spent these last 10 hours re posting to fix it. Enjoy again!
Best game experience ever, in any games, was the first time I crossed the mountains running from Ascalon in GW1. When we had to light the torches as it grew darker. Had a good team. Never had that feeling of immersion since.
I don’t remember that part :o which area?
Level of immersion of pre-searing, just after I bought GW1 is one of the best experiences ever as far as gaming goes for me.
Never played WoW, but was always interested simply because of how much talk revolved around GW vs WoW. As a GW1 player since the beta, I appreciate this video. I honestly still thought about the topic even to this day. Fantastic job.
hes doing a service to all gamers. love wooden potatos
Something about heroes and henchman i really liked meant u could explore stuff at my own pace without feeling like im letting down the team. Exploring every inch of the map. Picking diffrrent quests. Taking short breaks etc. Geberally just messing around too. There was an element of your little AI army that was extremely fun
The entire ai army thing makes this mmo extremly unique.
Guild wars remains for me the single best game and community I have ever experienced it really had something for everyone. I still have a GW enamel skill badge on my desk and fond memories of many friends and pve / pvp adventures =]
:(
Overall a well executed review, although for as long as it is, I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention that GW didn't have the gear treadmill. Granted at launch the gear difference between blue level 60 and Molten core wasn't as absurd as the difference of later WoW, but the fact that in guild wars you could get 'end game' quality gear fairly easily, and that for the most part the 'best gear' at launch could be as good as gear you find at the end of their last expansion was a factor that affected how people would have liked or disliked it compared to WoW.
1-2years late finding this video. Absolutely insane this isn’t talked about. That’s the thing that will make and break the game for people. There’s no gear progression. I just made a fresh account and I already have a “perfect” staff because I just went to a collector in the desert. It’s no BDS but it’s the exact same functionality
Guild wars was definitely lacking a lot of the predatory time sink mechanisms that other MMO's have, for better and for worse. Like potato said it was definitely focused on the pvp and skill combat rather than grinding
Quality review with no surprises where you end up, honestly. Sales figures, sub numbers were unprecedented for a good reason. Guild Wars 1, however, was something very special at the time. It was a relatively new market in general, but in terms of player numbers this era of mmos was entirely new. Guild Wars on paper had no right to be as popular as it was, but the initial focus on a tangibly different experience made the game an enticing prospect for people searching for something different, and yet still a great product for those dipping their toes in to the genre. Comparing the success in numbers would be certainly unfair to Anet, but claiming that GW was unsuccessful simply because it didn't reach the WoW heights of popularity would be foolish. The game was and remains great. Great enough for a successful sequel.
I would say wow is the better game, but since its model has been exhausted and does not really provide anything fresh, GW might still be the more innovative and refreshing.
@mrpatonki It is, still very viable game.
What guildwars does right for me:
-sound track: I can sing you many musical scores from guildwars of many zones. Whilst wow has anduin's theme, stormwind and orgimmar. Guildwars was more memorable.
-parties: going into tour own instances map, spending hours with a small bunch of fellow players. You got a real sense of team work. You know why you invited someone and where they sit in the group. Wow was "fuck it tank heal dps"
-skill bars: you had to carefully pick 8 skills out of the plethora of skills available. If you mess up your bar, you have to leave you team or live with it.
-classes: whilst you have a primary profession with its specialised attribute, no one class could do one thing, save, maybe, the warrior. I could be a ranger healer, a monk tank. It stopped locking professions behind 1 role.
-character creation: 8 skin colours, 12 faces, 16-20 hair colours and 12 hair styles PER PROFESSION also a height editor. It was YOUR character.
Classic WP moment: "I love that this game has a story and I could list spoilers about which characters die." A few minutes later: "[...] the resurrection of Prince Rurik, [...]"
**Spits out tea**
Never expected to see Azeroth on this channel.
He's had Azeroth on the channel before, I believe for an old Q&A video on April Fools, or the like.
"My father fought in the Guild Wars." *(literally never comes up as an integral plot point **_ever again.)_*
I'm also amused to see Devona using a sword (and possibly daggers over a year before Factions), when in-game she wields a hammer.
Yeah, the start cinematic has much more of a Diablo/Dungeon crawling vibe than whatever is actually going on in the actual Guild Wars Prophecies campaign. Oops?
@@chromasus9983 She claims a threat was rising from the west, but the most pressing matter in the game (that she should be caring about) involves fighting/escaping from the Charr- from the northeast.
The things they're fighting don't even look like Charr. Or Titans. Or undead from a Lich. Or ettins. They sure as hell aren't Mursaat. I'm assuming they're meant to be early-concepts of gargoyles?
The Bone Dragon at the end (I'm assuming it's a Bone Dragon) still has its forelimbs and doesn't even look like a threat.
@@KalibreSteelblast Looks like they are fighting Ghouls + what could be an Executioner near a castle in Kryta, and the village may be Nebo Terrace ? But yeah, this doesn't have to do much with the lore AFAIK; might be from way before the Searing
i was able to speak to some anet devs about the original games marketing, i dont think i want to name them
basically marketing was outsourced, and anet was kind of confused with what they received, as they said "i think youll agree it doesnt look like guild wars."
now this wasnt specifically about the trailer but included the strange "box art" and stuff that can come up in google, but im pretty sure the trailer was not done by ANet internally.
Cutscenes in gw1 were so memorable. I dont think you even remember it but none of the story cutscenes had lip syncing until later. Nightfall if i recall and they went back and did the old ones. But yeah it was very surreal to see characters stare and have a voice.
I remember those days. It was when facial animations in games were still super hard to do and every player and NPC were master telepaths xD
As someone who plays both MTG and GW1, build crafting in GW1, together with 2 friends of mine was literally the most fun expiriences I ever had in gaming. It basically felt like building a MTG deck. The Main/Secondary class combination was basically like picking your colours, your skills where your cardslots, attribute point spread feels like adjusting your mana base. Even things like Manacurve is basically applicaple. Elite skills feel like picking a Commander for your EDH deck.
Great breakdown, i really liked elite skill hunting in GW. Arenanet's general attitude towards the players is much better IMO.
Now we need a legend to come with the timestamps
I've posted them in a separate comment. :)
Behold, the Legend ^
oHhhH My God a PRODUCTION. time to get a cocktail this is gonna be a long one i can't wait
Nothing has yet to scratch that certain itch gw1 created in me
For real. There was something special about GW1. The missions, the pvp, the musical scores, the lore. GW1 musical scores alone had me in awe every expansion.
Same could be said about anyone's first mmo love. For me it was Burning Crusade. As much as I loved GW2 (pre PoF) I still craved that feeling I got the first time I played WoW BC. The music in the Night Elf area, the story, and the how good the animations looked for the time.
@@psilosynesthesia7953 don't forget the skills. synergizing those skills felt so good.
This was amazing content Potato! I loved it, and it being 2.5hrs long, it was massively satisfying. I only put 30hrs into WoW just to try it, but I could not stand the art style, n art style is everything to me. Also I was alrdy paying subs for CoH n SWG. But GW1 was my jam! I nvr had so much fun playing quests before n still havnt experienced anything like it. I mained a warrior n after the later campaigns launched w new profs, the warrior was frowned on as worthless... that is, until magumma jungle and RAPTOR FARMS! I still remember running groups inside to door sit n get PL'd as I would drop 20-30 raptors and the elite brood mother in ONE rotation and ending with ONLY ONE HIT POINT REMAINING! Then I would scoop up the black dye bounty n tell the door sitters to reset so we could go again. Damn, that was the best adrenaline rush of any game EVER!!!
24:00 the instancing in gw1 with quests was clever in the way when entering the zone, it would be dynamically changed depending on what quests were available. Having multiple quests interacting with eachother made things sbowball harder or find easy ways to cheese contebt. There was a market for selling instances to peple so they could get certaib NPcs os bosses for skipp captures
Back when I tried the WoW trial around 2007 I was rather gameplay focused so I found it hard to get into with the slow combat compared to what I was used to with Guild Wars. I did always wonder if it got better later on after leveling a bunch but from the sounds of things it doesn't by very much.
In retrospect I think the fact enemies use player skills and follow most of the same rules as the player in Guild Wars is one of the things I probably miss the most about the sequel. That and having a bunch of build defining Elite skills to choose from.
That said I don't miss people slapping on worthless sundering mods and charging extra for that. To this day I'm still miffed the community likes sundering over the blatantly superior in all situations vampiric. (I was actually up all night thinking about the math on this after your previous upload)
Greatly enjoyed he video all around and have wanted to hear this perspective for years.
I think they liked it better because it was seen as the best general purpose mod that doesn't drain health. I remember hating vampiric for that reason alone.
@@VermHat Just swap off of it when not attacking with it. You'll always want an elemental damage option for the extra damage against Warriors anyways.
During the period Potato is reviewing, I was playing City of Heroes. The one game I felt really like I was doing things in an actual city. Even if it was divided up with walls.
There’s only one way to answer the question “how do I compare WoW to GW”..... DOUBLE LET’S PLAY!!!
*reads title*
"Well, wars have started for less"
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the time you put into this. Watched it all in one sitting, really good points. I come from the other side of the coin, started as a Wow player. Really interesting to hear your points! And really fun to see Azeroth on this channel!
WoodenPotatoes. Today you have earned my subscription after years of ups and downs regarding GW2. I like to consider myself a Lorekeeper of GW2. But you blew my mind away after sourcing what you claimed. "GW1 devs are former blizzard employees." This was Epic as my brother inlaw and myself came from wow to gw1 after not like how the state of the game was going. We were former GMs of WoW. When we logged in and saw what the game was like we were in love.
GW1 paved the way for a new genre of online games. Beautiful documentary Potato.
As mainly a World of Warcraft player I must say when I noticed this video in my feed I was a bit worried because videos like these don't always go too well.
But after watching the whole thing, I must say you did make a really good video on the subject.
I started with Guild Wars when it came out, Guild Wars was my first "MMORPG". I started with Guild Wars because I didn't like the fact that World of Warcraft required a Subscription.
But after six or so months and most of my friends moving over to World of Warcraft, I basically tried it and the rest is history as they say. Now that doesn't mean I never played Guild Wars again, I actually did. I completed the campaign and just messed around as a sort of solo player. I also played the sequel (Guild Wars 2) on and off, kind of between World of Warcraft expansions. Although I do have to say that when it comes to Guild Wars vs Guild Wars 2, I much more prefer Guild Wars. If only we could take parts from both games and put them together in a new one, I think we could end up with an even better game. But that's just me.
And while I did (and still do) mainly play WoW, I did enjoy Guild Wars more in some ways. Like the difference between the Guild Wars campaign and WoW's "kill 10 boars" quests is HUGE.
WoW's cartoony look took me a while to get used to while Guild Wars looked so clean, almost life like.
I also agree with how bad WoW's PvP is balanced and basically a big mess if you directly compare it to the Guild Wars PvP. But then again, I never was a huge PvP player so I never really
cared too much about either. In WoW, I do a couple of battlegrounds when I'm bored but that's it.
With that said, I enjoyed this video and I do agree on most (if not all points) you make.
Guild wars 1 was the beat mmo i had ever played and my warrior/monk slayed many fools in arena. Miss that game to death ,luxons for life best armor ever.
What a wonderful and fair comparison. I would love to see the same thing with guild wars 2 (albeit a shorter video for the sake that you dont need to say the same thing twice about WoW) because of how much more similar Gw2 is to WoW.
Glad to hear it Shawn, thanks man that means a lot!
Guild wars had the best skill/class system I have played. It was an online lobby based co-operative rpg and perhaps it should have stayed that way. Trying to make the franchise an mmo did it no favours.
"Why am I comparing [these two things]?"
The question I was constantly asking myself while working on my literature degree...
Guild Wars is legendary. I miss old school Hall of Heros and Guild Battles. Not to mention watching the top guilds compete. Long live Esoteric Warriors [EW]!
I understand what you say about Ai and henchman completly but glad you went back in the conclusion. This game is incredible value and you have so much you can accomplish playin on your own. Its an incredible stand alone experience
As someone who played both as a college student when they released, and having gotten all of my friends in college to play WoW, having insane adventures raiding with them in WoW, and generally playing more WoW, I have more game nostalgia for GW1. I took an N/Me to the very end of the game, and my God, what an epic adventure.
Loved both, but these days I wish I had friends to play GW1 with more than anything.
I'll never forget watching The Last Pride vs War Machine in the GW Prophecies World Cup grand final.
The warrior players for Last Pride (Bloodlight Eyes, and Last of Master) were my favourites to watch. Since I was a warrior main and I still am to this day.
GW2 is the first MMORPG that I actually found fun to play, I tried to play WoW many many times, but it's always boring with nothing that catches my interest
How I wish arena net would go back to its roots in a new game.. without all the convoluted stuff going on now. Graphic style like gw1 but updated new engine obviously. Actual guild wars..
Well, the newly founded Studio "Manaworks" might deliver on that.
Benedikt Wiegand man I hope. Have you heard anything from that studio yet?
@@slikktalk552 They are fairly talk-active in their subreddit. But I think right now they were talking to publishers/sponsors etc. to prepare a good foundation.
Benedikt Wiegand gotcha. I’ll have to check that out
Lmao @ update new engine...
GW2 runs on the same engine as gw1... as someone who is obviously a gw1 player.. you clearly don't know your own shit even... ;/
**applaudes** WP this is an amazing production. Thank you for all the time, effort and passion put into this.
Never got into GW1 but played WoW like crazy. Honestly, I think in terms of being drawn in and story, I would've fallen in love with GW1, but I played it after and the mechanics were too confusing for me. WoWs simple combat and class system probably made it more popular, even if it wasn't as deep. At least that's how I see it. The IP probably was the biggest factor.
Makes me wish they'd release GW1 as an offline single player game. I'd pay for it.
After Runescape, GW1 was the second MMORPG I'd ever played. I was 9-10 years old when I made my first GW character. Maybe that's why, to me, that's what an MMORPG should be like. Guild Wars has something I have not found in any other game, including GW2... It's an MMORPG that is completely (almost) team based.. You create a team, not just one character. There are hundreds of skills and customization in your builds that are possible, and if you multiply that by like an 8 party team, then there is so much customization and fun able to be had because you're constantly tweaking things and trying new builds. I have so many builds and things I've played in GW1... while in GW2 and other MMORPGs, it's just extremely limited... Combat is not the same. GW1 is very special, both PvE and PvP. I wish GW2 would've kept GW1's combat system but with the fluidity of GW2 combat, including jumping, swimming, moving and attacking/casting at the same time, and ground-casted skills.
GW2 was highly disappointing in comparison to GW1. It's simply just not as fun... It's not really team based, every class is really meant to do the same thing, it gets very stale. All the years and hours it's been out, and I still haven't done the majority of the living story in GW2 and still continue to play GW1 and only get on to do dailies in GW2.
What would do a great deal to help GW2 is to add CHOOSEABLE weapon skills. Yes, that's a lot of work, but I think it's worth it. There is so little build customization in GW2 in regards to skills. It's sad.
So, still watching but going to talk about a few things you already mentioned. You say you can sort of feel Kalimdor seems a bit more underdeveloped to Eastern Kingdoms and that's ENTIRELY CORRECT. They simply put less time into Kalimdor due to it being later in the development cycle and you can feel that in the design. There are less quests on the continent and in general simply less things to do, especially early on.
Now you said WoW doesn't have a main quest and you're right, but in a sense there is a main questline. You just have to be alliance to experience it. Again, leading to the fact less time was spent on Kalimdor. There aren't no spanning stories in the horde but they are less impactful and less connected with the end-game of the world. With Alliance and Humans especially you have a very clear political corruption arc spanning numerous zones and areas culminating in one of the raids, Onyxia's lair.
You start out in Elwynn and are sent as a fresh recruit outside Northshire to Goldshire and they're like 'fine, you aren't the soldier I asked for, but we need help, you'll do.' And goldshire and Elwynn have problems but they aren't as problem filled as the outer human controlled areas. As you go from Westfall to Redridge, to Duskwood. You see the people are resource starved and are desperate for help.
One problem though is there's simply no armies being sent and the King is missing. Things are entirely in disarray. Their local militias are all they have and it's just not enough. They can't help each other either, because each area is being choked by some massive problem or invasive enemy and you can feel that. In Westfall the Defias aren't far away. In Redridge, a pack of orcs hide just behind the rocks right outside Lakeshire. In Duskwood there is an oppressive feeling as the night's watch seems to barely just be holding onto the settlement they have as dead and other things creep around just outside their reach.
In Westfall you start to deal with the Defias and that plot thread of the overarching story for the alliance. The Defias are largely just people who weren't paid by the government of Stormwind for their services, so they're rising up and getting theirs however they want (Robbing the rest of the citizens, causing destruction, etc.) So you deal with the Defias though the quest chains and you're then lead to the other zones and the story leads to the Stockades. From there you're lead to finding out hidden spies and then traipsing though Theramore. Etc. etc.
You have plot threads going into other zones and the quest line you periodically check in on that you need to deal with up until the grand reveal of the political corruption of Lady Katrina Prestor (Onyxia). The reason no workers were paid, the reason the king is missing, the reason the kingdom and settlements can barely hold on is all because of the behind the scenes machinations of this villain that you deal with.
This is the core story you experience and although it's not done super greatly as there are sometimes very large gaps between story beats and a middling conclusion (You kill Onyxia but the King is still missing and well, you just go on to the next big raid boss plot thread, Ragnaros) that wasn't fully addressed until later in an another expansion entirely (King Varian Wrynn returning in Wrath of the Lich King), you still have it and it does make playing alliance more rewarding in the end through questing.
But you chose horde so yeah, you have less to work with and while I haven't ever played guild wars 1, I can clearly see why you think it's better there and honestly I think I'd agree in that particular area. Especially since Blizzard adopted that core story type of deal for their future expansions up to today where the War Campaign is a big part of Battle for Azeroth.
Also another thing, surprised during the environments section you didn't have a bit dedicated to which area simply had more memorable environments for you and which ones stood out aesthetically between the two games.
Completely flabbergasted you didn't like a single WoW track. That's a big point lots of people love. I guess maybe part of that's nostalgia but I do find the tracks genuinely enjoyable.
You managed to explain EXACTLY why i preferred pre-searing the most (besides the appearance).
As a purely gw player, and primarily a solo player playing for story, I never felt I was forced to play with others. The henchmen were perfect for me, I understand they weren't for all, but for me they worked perfectly as I could run around and read everything without anyone complaining I dragged their play down.
Also, I am extremely thankful for Guildwars lack of grinding for the main game. I hate it so much and it's one thing (the sub fee the other) that never even made me tempted to try out wow. So much grind just for the sake of grinding as a way of "content". *eurgh*
Wow has taken big parts from guild wars 2 and guild wars 2 has steadily distanced itself so far from the original guild wars that guild wars feels really good and unique these days. Modern wow has a lot of convenient teleporting now, although you need to physically move through a portal or use one of 3 hearth stones, there is always a way to transport yourself anywhere in the world fairly quickly that the world feels smaller even though it is much bigger than it ever was as they keep adding to it. I played guild wars for a bit back in the day with my wife (then girl friend) but was always a wow player. funny that today I play mostly guild wars 2, but i did pick guild wars 1 back up to play with my wife as she never really quit guild wars and my god is it a cool game. Aged like wine.
You provided a fair and well developed comparison. It would be interesting to see you do similar comparisons between other MMOs as well.
I super hugely disagree that a large quantity of quests is a good thing.
When you only have trash quests like "Go there" or "Kill 50 spiders", they're useless and a chore.
What I would want are much fewer quests, but that run over much longer time, give very real rewards and give you nice story.
I remember in my 30 day EverQuest trial (I was too poor to actually play it) I got a quest to craft my starter gear and I had to travel to a bunch of places to get all components I needed.
That was really nice and took a good while and a few levels before it was done.
So I say out with -most- of the useless quests (though keep some, they have their place) and have a fewer number of much more substantial quests.
At around 59 minutes you mention that Guild Wars doesn't have a means of detecting if there is variation in position along the Z axis, but this functionality does exist, bow attacks do increased damage if you are shooting from above, granted like you say this isn't a particularly utilized design space overall in the game.
Maybe this video could even help some people today to reflect for themselves WHY they like one game more than another (not only GW1 or WoW). People tend not to think a lot about WHY they want to play a game and waste money because of flashy trailers/ads. I played both of these games and I always knew why GW1 was better fit for me - the two main reasons are the combat system and that GW1 gives you the choice to play alone with NPCs or to group up with other people to play the content. I find both this features extremely important and just can't stand games that don't keep up with these points.
Great video WP, the only thing I can't agree with is on PvP. The GvG game type alone and the way the game's skill system and balancing tied in with it was streets ahead of any PvP in WoW and very ahead of its time.
I quit WoW after Cataclysm and moved to GW2 and then quit mmos altogether until classic. I've never gotten to play GW1 but I'm trying to get a group together. It sounds like both games do so much better than their modern versions to the point that I'm honestly baffled how that happened.
you could try and have a discussion about the comparison with Mark Kern, one of the bigger developers from blizzard for classic wow, he is active on twitter, and is also making a new game so might enjoy the extra publicity
I still love Gw1 for all its flaws, it was my 1st online game and I've been with the franchise for 15 years.
Different comparison but:
Wow quest: "Bring me 4 Zhevra hooves" two hours later after killing enough zhevra to qualify the species as endangered you finally find that 4th one. Even going into WotLK which was the last expansion I bothered playing that was a common issue and still is if my friends are to be believed
GW2 Quest: "I need 20 Ice wurm eggs, you can find them in nest or just get them off their corpses" no constant grinding to finish quest, Anet seems to have learned the lesson on that.
For me though I've enjoyed GW2 a lot more than I ever did any of the WoW expansions, and it's been an overall far better game than ESO. Getting my first Legendary weapon in GW2 took a year after I hit 80 to get- and it felt like a real accomplishment.
Don't forget the kill stealing would sometimes make it take twice as long (or longer)
I love that you've done this. WoW, Guild Wars and the original Star Wars Galaxies were always my three biggest MMOs that I've sunk countless of hours into, so I'm looking forward to hearing your take on WoW Classic vs GW 1.
a long awaited video, excited to discuss some of the modern gaming topics, will watch this whole thing later
Awesome analysis, you basically remind me about all the reasons why I always liked GW more than WoW. I never thought that GW is better or worse, it was just a game that fit me more.
I've always and will always love GW, and I wish more people gave it a chance. I do wish GW had some more things and taken some good aspects from other games. That goes for gw2 and gw1.
It doesn't make nearly as much sense, but I'd love to see an up to date comprehensive gw2 review, or gw2 vs ... review
Miscellaneous thing you forgot: NAMES! This is something that matters to people who RP or identify with their characters. And there are some huge differences between GW1 and WoW in that regard.
I've made very funny names with the 19 naming slots available in GW1.
My Trilogy acct has my only LDoA toon.
Droopy Graytail is my mentor/trainer avatar for any new player I happen to meet and is qenuinely asking for help.
Built her as an in-game joke, but, many players asked her to join their Guild.
I obstane from joining any Guild, I am my own unique personnea, so I am a Guild of One.
GL,
Droopy. :)
NPCs talking to your in guild wars 1 like having a merchant greet you was actually a major feature of the Eye of the North expansion
I feel like the way Guild Wars handled travelling actually made for a better allthough less repeatable initial travelling experience.
Having fast travel once you reach a place on a character enabled them to have you wade and chew through narrow winding corridors packed full with groups of ennemies to get there, which was a solid gameplay core.
This worked especially well with the story-based campaign format and made it feel like quite the epic adventure.
In my limited experience, in wow you had a big spacious world with single ennemies waiting around for you to kill them and roads to travel between places (either guestgiver hubs/towns or "questing grounds" with a higher mob density) unharmed.
Travelling rarely felt dangerous or engaging but more like filler content, allthough it was a huge part of what you did. Though there often was anticipation in it and the world beautiful and imersive, i admit.
I did start playing GW with Nightfall however so, in this context of prophecies vs wow, my opinion might not be that relevant or adequate.
Man, the thought of playing Guild Wars 1 without fast travelling is...slightly terrifying. It'd be such a slog...especially if you were, say, wanting to get to Lion's Arch from Droknar's Forge. That is a massive hike without fast travel.
I think this video really helped me understand why I always thought WoW sucked, and I never enjoyed it. It also really put into perspective why I liked GW. Most of your pet peeves with GW are things I enjoyed and/or didn’t care that it didn’t have at all. Then the things you liked about WoW I realized I don’t care to have them, didn’t enjoy them or just straight up hated.
It also helped me understand, in addition to your video on GW1 to GW2, why I also don’t like GW2. It’s much more like WoW, and I don’t enjoy either.
As someone who tried WoW multiple times and was accidentally drawn into GW2, the one thing that has continually kept me coming back is how I see people wherever I go. No matter the map, there is someone doing something. From Wayfarer Foothills to Draconis Mons to Domain of Vabbi. People are there and will interact with/talk with you. It means a lot that the community is so open to just hang out with each other. My experience in WoW was the complete opposite. I'd NEVER see anyone in the starting areas and would often get sniped. (I know this is due to a PvP server issue but still)
Pretty interesting video to watch. I'm kind of the opposite, I overwhelmingly prefer WoW over GW. I essentially got into GW because I was hyped about GW2 with the manifesto and wanted to get my heritage armor, but I didn't enjoy GW1 that much. However, there are a lot of things that I found really really cool about GW though, specifically the skill system. Going out in the wild to hunt elite skills was really fun and there's nothing quite like that in WoW. And although I sucked at making builds (I played wa/mo, nuff said) I also really loved the "deck building" and stat allocation aspect of them. I also think gear looked much better in GW than in WoW. (But that could be just because I played a female warrior in WoW and all warrior gear had big giant shoulderplates: those look far better on characters with wide shoulders like orcs, taurens and dwarves.)
Just a couple of things that came up to my mind as I listened to the video, as I know WoW pretty well. (I hope it doesn't sound like nitpicking, I think you did one hell of a job playing WoW to level 40 just to compare with old GW.)
1. You may be looking too much at your mini-map in WoW because you played a hunter. It's one of their perks to track mobs on the mini-map. To my knowledge, other classes don't have tracking skills on their map on their mini-map. My priest can only track treasures (dwarf racial) and herbs (herbalist skill) on the mini-map but nothing else. Perhaps warlocks can track demons and paladins can track undeads, but I'm not sure.
2. Customizable UI in WoW can also be a curse. In retail WoW, raid addons like DBM are so good that Blizzard has to design raids AROUND addons, and then addons become de-facto mandatory to raid at the hardest levels. This is something the WoW community has gotten used to, but I don't think it's healthy for the game that some of its content is dependent on addons. It also introduced things like DPS meters and Raider.IO, which can be good but is also the source of a lot of strife in the WoW community.
3. The global cooldown is not a technical limitation; it's deliberate. The proof is that rogues and druids in cat form have a much faster global cooldown than other classes. The devs specifically DON'T want action combat, because it makes the combat spammy and it gives too much of an advantage to players with low latency. Slowing down the flow of combat to one skill every 1.5 seconds helps equalizing the field. Later on they introduced "off global cooldown" skills to make the combat more fast-paced. By far the best at this is FFXIV: they have an excruciatingly slow GCD of 2.5 seconds but all classes that are not casters have many off-GCD skills to use between the long GCD, and it creates rythmic play styles for those classes that I find really fun.
4. I noticed in your footage that your pet is never happy. Did you know that your pet has a diet, and if you feed it, it will become happy and do 25% more damage? If you don't feed him or let him die too often, it will be upset, do less damage and eventually desert you.
5. I don't think PvP was "tacked on", after all the horde vs alliance rivalry, the context in which PvP takes place, is at the core of Warcraft's identity. (WoW and the Warcraft RTS games tell the story of those factions.) But the way PvP was originally balanced was awful for a MMO in my opinion: PvP was essentially "rock-paper-scissors" but with classes: a mage would annihilate a warrior, a warrior would destroy a warlock and a warlock could easily outmatch mage. The problem is that it creates very frustrating 1v1 encounters. On top of that, gear and level difference gives unfair advantages. I know some people enjoy the feeling that they are never safe in the open world, but personally I don't see the fun in unfair PvP modes. I very much prefer GW2's PvP modes to WoW's.
6. The character creator did not improve much in retail WoW. You obviously have new races, you have alternate versions of existing races (like Dark Iron Dwarves) and in the next expansion you will get the option to have variety within a race (like non-caucasian for humans) but if you are expecting sliders to change the length of your nose, the devs confirmed in a recent interview that it's not going to happen.
7. You're 100% on spot about Blizzard cherry picking what Arenanet did best. In fact if you want to be mean to them you could argue that Blizzard never invented anything. By their own admission, the secret to their success (not just for WoW but all their games) is essentially to copy what other games do and then polish, polish, polish, polish... They're doing the same thing with other recent MMOs, GW2 included. They attempted to copy GW2's dynamic events during patch 5.3 in The Barrens, back when GW2 was the big WoW alternative. They're also copying a bunch of things from FFXIV in their next WoW expansion, which seems to be the new flavor of the month "not-WoW" MMO.
in blizzards defense yoshi-p through his own admission did literally steal all the good aspects of wow and gw2 for ff14. He wanted the best parts of every successful mmo for his own.
I only found out about Guild Wars 2, 2! when a guild mate left WoW to get ready for beta. I a few months later also left WoW to go play GW2. but when i found out there was a gw1 i was curious and a year later tried it but it was awful compared to what I had in World of Warcraft Vanilla. Though knowing it was more focused on competitive rpg still feels like a cop out since they first said it was an mmo. The structures of the game are very different but even the avatar control, movement control, fluidness of combat, UI, ease of use vs going outside the game to figure things out were much better with WoW then Gw1. I tried to get into gw1 (cause i wanted the cheevo points for gw2- and that would be even harder at this point in time) heh, but that just wasn't happening. **I couldn't believe there wasn't any jumping in gw1, such a basic thing.**
Loved the video and an interesting comparison, definitely agree that at anytime i can go back and play GW1 solo now and still have a good time.
Just FYI: back in the days, people did not run SM over and over again. As soon as there was something like an end game player base, there simply weren't enough people to run SM over and over again if you didn't find a group that was going to run multiple times. The tools were also so bad that there simply was no way to find a group fast. You'd usually sit in your capital looking for people.
People generally quested and used questing addons. There was even a popular guide you had to pay for that would offer an addon to lead you through the quests as fast as possible. Alternatively, because those addons were quite bad back then, people went on whatever database your locale offered. For english, that was thotbot. For German, that was Blasc and later buffed (same thing. buffed is still a news site about MMORPGs and Blasc was basically the pet project of some employees to load data from players into a database).
You'd get a quest, see if it's super obvious where to go and if not just look it up on TB / Blasc.
fantastic m8 all this work you put in this it really shows. very well done!! I always wondered how the two would compare. now i know. But still am glad that i sticked with gw1 coz the pvp in a gvg scene was unprecedented at leasdt for me. I remember as a warrior with a healing hands build in the early days taking out a lord of the enemy team or holding off an entire gvg team that was rly fun.
The music in guild wars is amazing because its the same composer that did the Elder Scrolls games
i'm not sure how we can compare the 2 honestly. I did play both Vanilla WoW, and the original release of GW. Two completely different games, imo.
Quality review. Been lurking around your channel for a couple of years, now, and I always love your content. Thanks for the consistent quality. Cheers.
Graphic Quality of Guild wars is so nice. WoW is like a creepy cartoon.
I have to disagree with you about the questing category. It's all about quality than quantity for me. I got so bored playing WoW classic because most of a every zone's quests are "kill x amount of enemies" or "collect x item from this enemy". Guild wars' quests had more meaning imo.
Also guild wars was one of the most immersive games for me. The music was so perfect for every zone, I swear there are some tunes that are etched into my memory even to this day. The different areas of Tyria were beautiful and unique. My favorite zone was definitely pre-searing Ascalon, it was absolutely stunning.
I am a former long time wow player and recent gw2 player. I did not play vanilla gw. This was a very entertaining video and I enjoyed and appreciated your perspective.
I started playing GW1 shortly after Factions came out, but well before Nightfall. I remember very strongly the sense of doing the average questing solo and it being quite deadly at times. Then I'd always look for groups for missions, because henchmen were too stupid to really rely on for these often truly difficult missions with timers and deadly traps and similar mechanics.
That and the structured PvP (some of my favorite time spent in any game ever, really) are my strongest memories of GW1.
I really wish Dervish and Paragon were a thing in GW2. XD
While this dicussion is very interesting and all that.
I'm just staring at the humor of your hunter's pet waiting for you to feed it before it nopes out.
I LOVED Guild Wars, Such a good game. I didnt play much WoW back in the day but i have fond memories of Guild Wars
You gotta hand it to Anet for trying to break the conventions that were trending at the time only for them to fall short and losing out to the very grain they were going against.
I've been waiting for this video for so long. Huge kudos to WP for making it.
Late to the party but 1 thing I'd say is that the enemies in gw1 actually felt far more immersive to me. in most mmo's being built around solo difficulty means that most enemies in the world are mostly static single enemy mobs with some being close enough that if pulled poorly you'll be facing 2-3 people at once. on the other side gw1 to me was brilliant in that groups would move around in mobs with smart or logical party comps. I loved learning patrol paths and learning depending on the enemies different tactics or kill orders over time. enemies always felt far more visceral and real to me in gw1 vs almost any mmo back then or even now.
I miss the secondary class selection of GW1 and the PVP/GvG it gave us.
I never played GW simply because almost EVERYONE I knew in high school was playing WoW. I think I knew two or three people who played GW versus the dozens and dozens of people I knew playing WoW, and the IRL experience of talking about it in class and sharing stories and cool pvp videos set to Linkin Park really made it a unique experience in my life.
You're absolutely right about not being able to jump or swim hindering my interest for GW... One of my favorite things to do in WoW in my down time was just explore the map and try to get to cool, forbidden areas like Old Ironforge or Mount Hyjal or the Karazhan Catacombs, and it sounded (sounds) like you couldn't really do exploration like that in GW. It's a trivial thing, but I have some very strong memories of reaching out of bounds areas in WoW.
Between your old LP and years of hearing / seeing it, and now this review, I can see how interesting and in depth GW combat was. I think I would have enjoyed it and it's a shame I decided to never try it as a kid, because I think the combat may have been enough to hook me on its own. Interesting and engaging combat (in pvp) is one of the main reasons I've stuck with GW2 since launch despite trying to go back to WoW multiple times, because as you touched on, after I had done most of the quests and explored most of the world, and when my IRL friends all moved on over the years, WoW just stopped being fun (GW2 launched by the time the Dungeon Finder tool killed many of the social elements in WoW).
One final thing about your WoW experience... The Tauren starting zone, Mulgore, was designed back when Tauren could not ride mounts, but instead had a passive trait (I think called Plains Strider) which made their base running speed almost as good as mounted speed. I imagine that's a reason it's so big and empty.
And WoW didn't have any stand out music to you? Clearly you played Horde! But yeah, aside from the login screen, the (Alliance) city themes, and a few dungeon themes (like Shadowfang Keep), the music tended to be background noise (exception for the Ashenvale music).
GW1 is, undeniably, one of the greatest MMOs to date, and certainly the best designed.
Next review: EQII vs. WoW.
I actually played both at various times, but I was probably a much more serious Guildwars player. When the third expansion came out, I had the main campaign finished by 10am the next day. I had a Monk/Mesmer primary, and enough Alts to flesh out my own support team without needing other live players. The thing that finally got me to try WoW was two-fold. One I realized I'd spent probably close to $230 over time playing Guildwars through the purchase of the Guildwars various titles, and micro transactions for addition character slots, or exclusive cosmetics. It was easy to recognize maybe i wasn't saving money by playing Guildwars over WoW. And the other thing is I had been an avid Blizzard Fan playing most of the RTS games, and I loved seeing things I recognized from Warcraft 3 in a more explorable format. The last nail in the coffin for Guildwars in my experience, were the frequent balancing changes which changed how effective my characters were. Having to always adapt was tiresome. Anyway, I appreciate your comparison video.
It's worth mentioning I also had all the lore master titles for completing all the availables quests in various regions in WoW. I had a terrible internet connection which made playing with other people difficult, but WoW quests were fine by me.
I started GW January 2005 until 2007 when I started playing wow full time raiding. I still log into GW with my decked out heroes. The social aspect really hurts in GW. Back years ago I had a role in GW but none of that matters In pve anymore whereas in Classic wow I am still a priest healing raids. I use to raid in GW too but that too is gone. While there are players chat is completely taken ove by gold/item sellers. It’s rare to see people forming a party for anything unless you’re in an active guild.
Blizzard always had one thing I loved which is their cinimatics.
Great video WoPo! As you say these are old games that don't necessarily need reviews at the moment, but I think there is still a function for discussions like this. With the successful return to "classic" style MMOs, even if they are re-releases, it begs the question about what made those experiences special and why developers don't want to make those types of MMOs anymore. I'd love to see a sparkly new MMO but with older gameplay philosophies at its core. But it is a lot of work for any developer, so I dunno if that's just a pipe dream at the moment.
The Talent skills are the equivalent of the elite skills, completely build defining
Oh a reupload this quickly? With 1 minute and 40 seconds more content. Well well.
I just love the Guild Wars soundtrack
Samee
Watching this video just shows me not only how much better gw1 was than wow in aspects like combat but also how much better gw1 was compaired to the sequel.
Bingo!
Short and sweet... GW1 is simply the better game IMHO, it's complexities make it nearly as addicting as my Gemstone-IV p2p days.
Late to the party as usual, but I’ll offer my thought’s anyway. Played WoW for ten years and loved and hated it at times. Most negative was the fact with each new expansion, you started from scratch. More leveling, more grind towards masteries, had to re-earn flying, just more of the same. Loved the environments and gameplay. Finally said enough! Not doing another expansion grind. So tried out GW2. Been playing off and on now for past few years. I was a bit disappointed to see flying added in with PoF. It really does make the world seem smaller and less challenging.
I played WoW Classic for a bit when it first came out, but as you said, it’s really really slow.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. You’re the best, WP!
This is really epic. If WP gets bored with GW2 someday he can easily become the best MMORPG or general RPG reviewer on RUclips.
Agreed in concept. In execution, as he stated himself, this took a long time, not just for him but also for us as consumers.
@@thorstienn2317 Honestly I didn't notice any change in quality at the point when he said "my script ends here and now I only have bullet points and will free rant now". The quality and coherence of this video as a review is much higher than 99% of the reviews I've seen on RUclips.
Good review, I want to try WoW Classic now but GW will always have a place on my pc.
I always had a theory that Guild Wars was made by Blizzard devs who wanted World of Diablo instead of World of Warcraft. These days, seeing how Diablo 4 is going to be implementing MMO features, it almost feels right.
Sadly I think if GW2 had been a more true sequel to GW1, instead of chasing the "WoW-killer" as everyone was doing in the late 2000s when GW2 was being developed, then it likely would have fared far better. The mmo-lite, arpg looter genre is absolutely destroying traditional MMOs these days, amd GW1 was really on the forefront of that style before it became a thing.
Lol... Diablo4 is actually a ripoff of Sacred... check the original Sacred game... every "new" concept they are bringing into arpg is actually from that lost gem of a game...
Gw2 is not trying to be a WoW killer. It's way different
@@marinhrabric6162 It's different, but not "way" different. It's meant to engage in the same space as WoW, but was trying to include enough bells and whistles that people would find it more appealing. If you can't play WoW and GW2 and know you're in the same genre then I don't know what to tell you.
GW1, meanwhile, was far more akin to games like Warframe, Destiny, or Path of Exile: all of which have dated far better over the years than any "traditional" MMO without a strong brand backing like Final Fantasy or Elder Scrolls. GW1 was a bit ahead of its time, and GW2 could have continued the trend, but the devs either lost faith in their original vision or just got enamored with a new one.
@@chaosgyro sure they have similarities. Every mmo will have. It's unavoidable. They are in the same genre ofc. They're mmos, but gw2 is not a WoW killer and isn't trying to be. That's why I like it. Cause it's different.
@@marinhrabric6162 GW 2 and WoW has more similarities than GW 2 and GW.
I love Guild Wars to bits, but man, WoW intro cinematic is different league.
Thinking of little Lys being reincarnated into a giant bull man makes me giggle
Nice to see you got the video out in the end! Much appreciated :)
Well done; listened while grinding out the Wintersday achievements this afternoon. It was nice to see GW1 again, remember why I loved it. Anyway, good and fair review.
Wow Classic with Guild Wars tactical vombat and an improved Talent system would be my perfect MMO!