The ending scene with Talia and Susan was incredibly powerful imo. Talia doesn’t really hesitate, she just takes the badge right off despite what it represented to her in the past. Talia knows that part of her life is over. It moves both characters into a whole new situation. Loved it.
Gianin Loffler who played the lurker who tries to convince Talia about the Corp also talked to Garibaldi about Petrov in Chrysalis. The railroad has been going on for a while.
A Friendly Reminder: Please no spoilers of any kind, no matter how minor. That includes details technical details about how things work that haven't been revealed yet. The guys want to work this stuff out for themselves. Let them discover the show as you would want to. Thank you.
The crazy thing about JMS (I'm not going butcher his last name here) is that while this show was going on in the 90's the internet was still in its infancy but Babylon 5 had some type of a chat forum for it and JMS actually regularly posted messages there and talked to the people about the show... This show is his baby and he fostered it as well as he could and he basically changed the way television shows and series were made and are still made today. He changed the scene with his over arching stories and magnificent character arcs he had for all these characters. And while I'm ranting about Babylon 5, I have to say that while the effects are not top tier, they are still functional and they don't date the show as hard as some other shows do. The casting is pure gold... I don't know how they hit it out of the park like they did, but the cast is just perfect to a tee... Too bad about the Babylon curse though. A whole bunch of these actors have passed away. A lot way before their time... It has been sad to follow. Thankfully there are still few around. Some we have seen and some that have yet to make their appearances.
Τhe BEST ! "Chekov" is awesome as Bester ! the actor himself said liked the role and wanted to have the chance to shine and he enjoyed playing something else that what we were used to like this really cool ruthless but elegant badie of a character .
"Ah Mr Vader...what a pleasure to meet you." Smiling Bester walking up to poor Vader, while breaching into his head to pull his worst nightmares out of his subconsciousness and nails it into his vision, making his every moment awake or asleep like watching Alien while having a bad trip. I love this villain, Mr Koenig does such a fantastic job here.
Remember how during the Earth-Minbari War Dr. Franklin rather destroyed his notes about the Minbari and landed in jail instead of giving them to the Bioweapon Division? Having heard what the PSI Corps did to Talia's friend Jason? That probably got him involved. Enhancing telepaths might have been ok with him, but turning them into weapons and killers? That probably went too far. As for Talia... Spoilers. But yes, bread crumps. This show makes you appreciate bigger pictures. Yes, you are over thinking it and yet, at the same time you are not. Babylon 5 is a learning experience. For example, you learn much more about humans and all the aliens than you do in Star Trek and it fits together better because the important parts are worked out in advance and not pieced together bit by bit. Not saying Star Trek is bad, I just wish they would plan ahead a little more even with the older shows. As for the bigger picture... 😁 When it comes to crossovers, I always thought of the fun if the classic Enterprise crew mistook Bester for Checkov.
It's not just that the rogue telepaths told Talia their stories. I'm sure they also let her scan them, because they needed her to *_know_* that what they said was the truth. Anyone else could stay in denial and say it was propaganda. But when Talia looks into their minds and can *_see_* that they're telling her the truth.... that's going to be a huge shift to how she perceives PsiCorps to be. Even raised by the Corps herself, if you learn enough, you can understand what they've become.
I'd say that going into their heads would also let her see more... FEEL more... than mere words could convey. Someone saying "I was in war" or "I was tortured" doesn't begin to convey what they went through. Experiencing it through their eyes?? Done.
Depends on the degree of injustice. "Deliver extra cookies to everyone except that guy I hate." Not worth caring about. "Deliver water to all the colonists to keep them alive, except that one neighborhood full of rabble-rousers." that one, I'd disobey.
FINALLY! The big reveal of Dr. Franklin's Love Cot! Now you guys are getting into the real story! I'm siding with Ray about holding off on the marathons. This series gets deep and complicated. You don't want to gloss over it. You guys want time to focus on the details, absorb them, and speculate between each episode. All on camera, of course.
Koening was freakin superb in B5 ..i mean .,... every time he showed up on the screen , you could hear my heavy breathing coz how much i hated Bester - but hey , just a testament to how great the actor is. Freakin superb ( especially in contrast to Chekov )
Dude, when I was in the USN I was charged $50 a month for my quarters; a 7' x 3' x 3' coffin rack. Four inches of storage under the inch thick mattress. 30 credits for seven square meters don't sound too bad.
"Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute" is a quote from early US history. Countries demanding tribute from the US went over about as well as the British taxes did.
Years ago I named a bunch of my fancy shuttles (Leopards) in EVE online after B5 characters, one or two got destroyed but I still got Bester Sinclair and Lita Alexander the telepath from episode one.
Great to hear. Someone made a 4k version of all the episodes on RUclips which stayed up for about year before getting taken down. It was a real shame as it looked fantastic.
24:37 Yeah, in my opinion it's along the lines of "What Ironheart went through was a one-time mistake" and now she sees that things like that are happening all the time and it wasn't just a one-time mistake but a systemic issue.
The irony is, on the surface, the Corps is not only justified, but probably right to make these moves in attempting to create stronger telepaths. Minbari telepaths can be, and probably on average are, leagues beyond Psi Cops and Centauri telepaths, as we learn in the next episode, minor spoilers there, must be fairly powerful as well. The Narn may not have telepaths, but the other races do. And then there's of course the Vorlons. Psi Corps' ultimate agenda certainly is corrupted and immoral on every level, but the ability to create more powerful telepaths and potentially beyond has benefits especially ten years after facing complete annihilation.
The big flaw of Dr. Franklin, in my view, is his arrogance. He is in essence a good guy, but to full of himself and his rightousness. That leads to him not considering the possible fallout of his actions enough, escpecially the consequences for others. He acts like, because he's doing the right thing (from his point of view, anyway), everything will be well or at least worth it.
It takes a special kind of madness to embrace quality entertainment as opposed to the drivel they throw out these days. But is it madness or genius. 😛 "Doctor Groper to the spare cot please...we have incoming...repeat... Doctor Groper to the spare cot..." *click. 😂
also .. you could not describe why Franklin... coz there's not such a difference. Rescuing the kid ? two stupid parents got hurt but the boy was saved. It was the parents who killed him . I'd told you why there's so much hate against the dude among "b5 fans" but you would not believe me and i don't wanna bring up stuff that could cause spoilers. Just keep watching and give him the benefit of doubt.
Side note, Garibaldi and Talia were married in real life. (Later divorced) “I don’t think I like this doctor “. You’re not alone. He’s a bit of a jerk character. Not all the good guys are perfect.
Franklin's not a jerk per se. But he is arrogant, and thinks he's always right. Which is made worse because he very frequently IS right, so when he's wrong, he has real trouble accepting it, and real trouble accepting anything less than the expectations of an ideal world.
Unless we presume that Talia put forth a telepathic overlay, blanketing their minds, leaving only false images for Bester to scan. I mean, yes, that would be crazy strong, but this is Talia / Ironheart's gift we're talking about here.
The key to that is Bester should NOT be doing unauthorized scans of mundanes. If he does, he would know they pulled a fast one on him, but he can't officially do anything about it. He would have to admit to doing an illegal mind scan to obtain his evidence, and with all the shady stuff Bester is up to, he has way more to lose if he draws attention to himself. Not worth it in this case since as they said, B5s part in the railroad was finished.
Except that it's stated in dialogue that Sheridan needs to avoid Bester before he leaves. Now, the issue of Bester's PPG charge is a different matter....
I see your passion and excitement with the deep diving and analyzing everything and I love it... however you shouldn't do this at the cost of your health.. I find this kind of thing exhuasting, personally. Careful you don't set too high an expectation on yourselves!
Dr. Franklin is doing good when he's balking authority, but he can be so arrogant about it, and that's what I think you are picking up on and disliking about him.
Franklin will always value saving lives over following the rules. Always. Whether that's destroying his medical notes so they can't be used for biological warfare in the Minbari war, trying to prevent parents from letting their kid die due to some bronze-age superstition, diverting station resources into a free clinic for the homeless, using an unauthorised alien procedure to save Garibaldi, or running an underground railroad for people running away from nazi-style experiments. Lives >> rules in his book. Always. If that makes him "flawed", then we need more "flawed" people in the world. Too many "yes men" already who see bad shit happening and look the other way so they don't get in trouble.
The ending scene with Talia and Susan was incredibly powerful imo. Talia doesn’t really hesitate, she just takes the badge right off despite what it represented to her in the past. Talia knows that part of her life is over. It moves both characters into a whole new situation. Loved it.
I also thought that was an incredible scene
Gianin Loffler who played the lurker who tries to convince Talia about the Corp also talked to Garibaldi about Petrov in Chrysalis. The railroad has been going on for a while.
JMS is great at sneaking things in like that.
A Friendly Reminder: Please no spoilers of any kind, no matter how minor.
That includes details technical details about how things work that haven't been revealed yet. The guys want to work this stuff out for themselves. Let them discover the show as you would want to. Thank you.
I guess I better keep quiet on how the penny was made to move then.
C'mon guys,
'Kosh who?' is hilarious😂
Also, the budget move to pay rent is similar to Sinclair dealing with Zanto in the union dispute.
The crazy thing about JMS (I'm not going butcher his last name here) is that while this show was going on in the 90's the internet was still in its infancy but Babylon 5 had some type of a chat forum for it and JMS actually regularly posted messages there and talked to the people about the show... This show is his baby and he fostered it as well as he could and he basically changed the way television shows and series were made and are still made today. He changed the scene with his over arching stories and magnificent character arcs he had for all these characters.
And while I'm ranting about Babylon 5, I have to say that while the effects are not top tier, they are still functional and they don't date the show as hard as some other shows do.
The casting is pure gold... I don't know how they hit it out of the park like they did, but the cast is just perfect to a tee... Too bad about the Babylon curse though. A whole bunch of these actors have passed away. A lot way before their time... It has been sad to follow. Thankfully there are still few around. Some we have seen and some that have yet to make their appearances.
Τhe BEST ! "Chekov" is awesome as Bester ! the actor himself said liked the role and wanted to have the chance to shine and he enjoyed playing something else that what we were used to like this really cool ruthless but elegant badie of a character .
A short, slight, soft spoken imp of a man. Yet that uniform terrifies people and he wields that power like a weapon.
Speaking of crossovers, the name Pavel Chekov rings a bell, yes? Gooood!
That was a whole cocktail of references.
Londo's voice coming in strong when I read that.
"Ah Mr Vader...what a pleasure to meet you." Smiling Bester walking up to poor Vader, while breaching into his head to pull his worst nightmares out of his subconsciousness and nails it into his vision, making his every moment awake or asleep like watching Alien while having a bad trip.
I love this villain, Mr Koenig does such a fantastic job here.
Vader never messed with people's minds. That was a choice
"I find your lack of Force... disturbing."
Remember how during the Earth-Minbari War Dr. Franklin rather destroyed his notes about the Minbari and landed in jail instead of giving them to the Bioweapon Division? Having heard what the PSI Corps did to Talia's friend Jason? That probably got him involved. Enhancing telepaths might have been ok with him, but turning them into weapons and killers? That probably went too far.
As for Talia... Spoilers. But yes, bread crumps. This show makes you appreciate bigger pictures.
Yes, you are over thinking it and yet, at the same time you are not. Babylon 5 is a learning experience. For example, you learn much more about humans and all the aliens than you do in Star Trek and it fits together better because the important parts are worked out in advance and not pieced together bit by bit. Not saying Star Trek is bad, I just wish they would plan ahead a little more even with the older shows. As for the bigger picture... 😁
When it comes to crossovers, I always thought of the fun if the classic Enterprise crew mistook Bester for Checkov.
Franklin: "...Requisitioned it for medical purposes..."
Ray: "...And the ladies!"
😁 10/10
He doesn't make his lady guests sleep on a cot! That's what the king size bed is for.
Thank you :-)
Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas are just getting started... They are just purely incredible throughout the whole show.
It's not just that the rogue telepaths told Talia their stories. I'm sure they also let her scan them, because they needed her to *_know_* that what they said was the truth. Anyone else could stay in denial and say it was propaganda. But when Talia looks into their minds and can *_see_* that they're telling her the truth.... that's going to be a huge shift to how she perceives PsiCorps to be. Even raised by the Corps herself, if you learn enough, you can understand what they've become.
I'd say that going into their heads would also let her see more... FEEL more... than mere words could convey. Someone saying "I was in war" or "I was tortured" doesn't begin to convey what they went through. Experiencing it through their eyes?? Done.
It is heroic and honorable to disobey unjust orders.
Depends on the degree of injustice. "Deliver extra cookies to everyone except that guy I hate." Not worth caring about. "Deliver water to all the colonists to keep them alive, except that one neighborhood full of rabble-rousers." that one, I'd disobey.
4:30 this isn't Bureau 13, it's just a normal Psi Cop tracking down rogue telepaths.
Wow. I've been watching B5 since it aired and never knew Andrea Thompson and Jerry Doyle were married.
FINALLY! The big reveal of Dr. Franklin's Love Cot! Now you guys are getting into the real story!
I'm siding with Ray about holding off on the marathons. This series gets deep and complicated. You don't want to gloss over it. You guys want time to focus on the details, absorb them, and speculate between each episode. All on camera, of course.
Koening was freakin superb in B5 ..i mean .,... every time he showed up on the screen , you could hear my heavy breathing coz how much i hated Bester - but hey , just a testament to how great the actor is. Freakin superb ( especially in contrast to Chekov )
I can never decide if Bester or Morden is my Favorite Villain of All Time.
Generally it comes down to "Which one has been on-screen most recently?"
Dude, when I was in the USN I was charged $50 a month for my quarters; a 7' x 3' x 3' coffin rack. Four inches of storage under the inch thick mattress. 30 credits for seven square meters don't sound too bad.
"Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute" is a quote from early US history. Countries demanding tribute from the US went over about as well as the British taxes did.
Bester = the powers of Charles Xavier, with the outlook of Magneto.
Years ago I named a bunch of my fancy shuttles (Leopards) in EVE online after B5 characters, one or two got destroyed but I still got Bester Sinclair and Lita Alexander the telepath from episode one.
Hi Guys, glad you enjoyed this episode. The machinations of this show are never ending & so well layered you are constantly surprised !! Enjoy !! :)
Great to hear. Someone made a 4k version of all the episodes on RUclips which stayed up for about year before getting taken down.
It was a real shame as it looked fantastic.
"Big Daddy Kosh", I've never heard that statement.
But I like it!
24:37 Yeah, in my opinion it's along the lines of "What Ironheart went through was a one-time mistake" and now she sees that things like that are happening all the time and it wasn't just a one-time mistake but a systemic issue.
The irony is, on the surface, the Corps is not only justified, but probably right to make these moves in attempting to create stronger telepaths. Minbari telepaths can be, and probably on average are, leagues beyond Psi Cops and Centauri telepaths, as we learn in the next episode, minor spoilers there, must be fairly powerful as well. The Narn may not have telepaths, but the other races do. And then there's of course the Vorlons.
Psi Corps' ultimate agenda certainly is corrupted and immoral on every level, but the ability to create more powerful telepaths and potentially beyond has benefits especially ten years after facing complete annihilation.
There will be some official and unofficial multi-part episodes in season 3 that you should definitely watch back-to-back. S03E08+09+10, S03E16+17
The big flaw of Dr. Franklin, in my view, is his arrogance. He is in essence a good guy, but to full of himself and his rightousness. That leads to him not considering the possible fallout of his actions enough, escpecially the consequences for others. He acts like, because he's doing the right thing (from his point of view, anyway), everything will be well or at least worth it.
The female Psi Cop who briefly appears in the opening section of this episode, alongside Bester, was Walter Koenig's real life wife, Judy Levitt.
Great long discussion at the end.
The ride is crazy? Don’t unbuckle yet. You ain’t seen nuthin.
There are many more jaw dropping moments to come.
27:48 Anecdote. “Oh, doctor you're out of line!” says one of several female characters. Dr. Franklin hugs and kisses her: “It's all a stupid script!”
It takes a special kind of madness to embrace quality entertainment as opposed to the drivel they throw out these days. But is it madness or genius. 😛
"Doctor Groper to the spare cot please...we have incoming...repeat... Doctor Groper to the spare cot..." *click. 😂
Ah Mr. Bester and his little smile. Don't you just want to slap it off his face?
also .. you could not describe why Franklin... coz there's not such a difference. Rescuing the kid ? two stupid parents got hurt but the boy was saved. It was the parents who killed him . I'd told you why there's so much hate against the dude among "b5 fans" but you would not believe me and i don't wanna bring up stuff that could cause spoilers. Just keep watching and give him the benefit of doubt.
No one would suspect the doctor.
yeah new episode! where are the other 2 guys?
They were not available that week
Side note, Garibaldi and Talia were married in real life. (Later divorced)
“I don’t think I like this doctor “. You’re not alone. He’s a bit of a jerk character. Not all the good guys are perfect.
Franklin's not a jerk per se. But he is arrogant, and thinks he's always right. Which is made worse because he very frequently IS right, so when he's wrong, he has real trouble accepting it, and real trouble accepting anything less than the expectations of an ideal world.
Hello again, Walter Koenig! To me, you will always be Bester.
I think Talia Vintress' character will surprise Babylon 5 viewers.
Are the patreon reactions unedited full reactions or is the show video blurred?
The show is on for only about 2 minutes then its gone due to copyright purposes
Howdy...Knights
Howdy :-)
There is a plot hole. Talia might be able to block Bester but Franklin or Sheridan cant. One scan by Bester and the whole jig is up.
Unless we presume that Talia put forth a telepathic overlay, blanketing their minds, leaving only false images for Bester to scan.
I mean, yes, that would be crazy strong, but this is Talia / Ironheart's gift we're talking about here.
The key to that is Bester should NOT be doing unauthorized scans of mundanes. If he does, he would know they pulled a fast one on him, but he can't officially do anything about it. He would have to admit to doing an illegal mind scan to obtain his evidence, and with all the shady stuff Bester is up to, he has way more to lose if he draws attention to himself. Not worth it in this case since as they said, B5s part in the railroad was finished.
Except that it's stated in dialogue that Sheridan needs to avoid Bester before he leaves.
Now, the issue of Bester's PPG charge is a different matter....
Or the heat of the coils: mind you everyone knows that PPGs cool quickly in Down Below.
Keep speculating.. you'll get there LOL
B5 HYPE! :)
With many flaws, Bester is a “decent” psi cop, loyal to the Earth.
Bester was an awesome baddy
Thanks!
This is a great episode
I see your passion and excitement with the deep diving and analyzing everything and I love it... however you shouldn't do this at the cost of your health.. I find this kind of thing exhuasting, personally. Careful you don't set too high an expectation on yourselves!
Dr. Franklin is doing good when he's balking authority, but he can be so arrogant about it, and that's what I think you are picking up on and disliking about him.
He's dead Jim ;-)
Franklin will always value saving lives over following the rules. Always.
Whether that's destroying his medical notes so they can't be used for biological warfare in the Minbari war, trying to prevent parents from letting their kid die due to some bronze-age superstition, diverting station resources into a free clinic for the homeless, using an unauthorised alien procedure to save Garibaldi, or running an underground railroad for people running away from nazi-style experiments.
Lives >> rules in his book. Always. If that makes him "flawed", then we need more "flawed" people in the world. Too many "yes men" already who see bad shit happening and look the other way so they don't get in trouble.
LOndo, not LAndo, come on its season 2 learn his name!