If the new CPUs was at the same performance or a tad faster but much more energy efficient compared to Raptor Lake, it would be forgivable. But when the new CPU is alot slower in some cases and slower in general and is a tad more energy efficient it's not acceptable.
This is a necessary change, a 15900k with 6.4Ghz and insane Vcores would be better than 285k, but the power draw would be insane. It is not good for gamers but is necessary for the future. I'm not indicating this CPU for games, but the change is necessary.
Good honest review! I thought things would even out with oc tune, but nothing can fix this architecture with bios tweaks. If Intel later comes out with a fix I will be amazed that they waited so long while their reputation went down the drain like this.
No rage comments here, keep the high quality reviews coming. I really hope 2025 has some better products from Intel and look forward to you testing them
The newer architecture is better and needed to be done 2-4 generations ago. This I think is Intels Ryzen moment (minus better performance) but long term they’ve set themselves up to maybe push the chips harder than before with lower power draw. If they just dropped a 15900K it would been barely faster and +50W in game on a chip that already pulls 220W in COD
@@FIVESTRZ Hi men, i always comment on your channel 70% less performance in a 1% low is a windows 11 issue, mi 285k it arrives next week, I will try all the games in Windows 10 and the difference will surely be between 5% less or 20% less in all games and 1% lows, jufes testes de 265k in windows 10 and he did much much better in riftbreaker at stock, 202 fps average and 146 in 1% lows in stock clocks, max oc = 33% more performance.
@@ignacioaltamirano9273 yea I also think custom ISO files help as well, let me know what you find but all these chiplet architectures seem to be better on W10 mainly from the schedulers if I understand correctly. Then Intel has one built in on their chips from Alder Lake on
@@brtcobra yea so future revisions will be quite nice to see HUGE gaming gains while keeping everything else they’ve improved on. MOST importantly I hope they take this opportunity to extend the socket lifecycles like AMD has done.
Certainly needs to happen, but doubt it will drop much as they built it on an expensive TSMC node, and botched some of the haggling.. Intel pretty much boxed themselves in a corner. Now aside from needing profits, they'll have to find a new CEO to boot. At least Battlemage is looking promising for budget/entry level gamers.
@@TheBlackIdentety *facepalm* this thing costs 10%-20% more than the current best cpu out for gaming and isn't and thats already the low price for it? doesn't that file it firmly into trash tier? they need to sort shit out. surely intel can work out how to slap some cache on these
They would have to drop the price on the older gen too. Its already pretty low as it is, and the better CPU gen. Damn, Intel really screwed up big time. They should make a 15900k on tsmc, just a raptor lake refresh with lower power consumption. Intel won't ever do that, but they better do something soon. How else are they going to turn things around.
It's sad but I trust that Intel put out a CPU with a bad firmware patch that was non optimized. Hopefully that 30% increase updated is on the way. Same thing happened with the A570
Hey man you seem like you might know the answer to this. If you had to choose between 9950x or 285k for work and gaming, which would you choose? I am hearing reports about input lag with the 285k, is this a thing? Has it been fixed?
thanks for this. I have a secondary pc build I can see about getting a intel setup going for I am keeping my z690 setup or maybe I should wait for nova lake to part out my x299 build
@@MrMeanh I don't have an Arrow Lake CPU which is why I said that, I noticed a massive boost in smoothness with my 13700K though. Game feels leagues better than 2.1
It’s bad however it’s not Bulldozer at all. The cores are legit and it’s a lot more power efficient. Its workstation performance is either the same or a lot better than last generation. Gaming performance unfortunately just sucks badly.
the really weak lows are not wondering me when you run 8600Mb/s. would love to see a 12h Karhu or P95 large fft over night to see if this is even remotely stable.
I have no idea why you would use e-cores enabled for games more power draw ,no gains in fps and some games still struggle with scheduling giving horrible dips.
Do these benchmarks take into consideration the microcode updates provided by intel to the motherboard manufacturers? I know that it was available for my MB 11/29. Intel states that it should improve the performance of the Arrow Lake chips.
I don't think the 285K is an awful product but it's at a really bad price for what it is. Even with the issues that are facing 13th and 14th gen and hopefully they are fixed now I'd rather take those chips as they're more well-rounded you get great gaming performance and productivity at a good price
Yes bingo Raptor Lake is a better predict than Arrow or should I say Error Lake. Assuming the microcode is a true fix not just a band aide. But I fear its a band aide. so I am sticking with AMD for now and just got a 7950X3D so I have more than 8 cores. Unfortunately neither company has a CPU with more than 8 powerful homogenous cores on one die that is reliable. I do like Intel's Raptor Lake even with the e0cores arch better than dual CCD as an 8 + 16 or 8 + 16 you can turn off HT and the hardware level scheduler works well. But the degradation and stability issues that I experienced scared me away even with the microcode fix (A design flaw in hardware I fear) off for my final decision went 7950X3D. And Error Lake topology also sucks compared to Raptor Lake with e-core clusters in the middle of P cores. If either company releases more than 8 cores of modern IPC Zen4/Golden Cove or higher on a single die, I will sell and jump ay it. But thats a big if and that is unlikely to happen anytime soon before Zen 6 and we have no idea what Zen 6 is gonna be yet. So 7950X3D and process Lasso and Gamebar for now as 8 cores of 7800X3D/9800X3D just psychologically feels too small to go more high end video card (5090 6090 etc...) upgrades leaving core system (mobo, CPU, cooler and case) intact the next few years.
Not only is raptor lake very affordable and can be had for good prices you can get a great motherboard for 200 or less and can get some 6,000 or 7200 memory and not worry about it. I would like to move to ryzen eventually but right now there's just no motherboards I really like on that platform other than the x870e nova. I also do a lot of stuff that's pretty memory heavy and when ryzen finally upgrades their iodie/infinity fabric I'll be jumping to it right away @Wolverine607
@@Wolverine607You don’t need the bad micro code patch. All you have to do is lock your cores in the bios. Which will keep all cores at 5.7 GHz and prevent the 6.2ghz massive voltage spike from happening. Which causes the core degradation over time.
@@ZackSNetwork During my journey which involved swapping multiple parts and also mobos and yes Raptor Lake CPUsd that began 2 years ago to find an RTX 4090 with no coil whine. I also had DDR5 XMP stability issues so went to DDR4 and then back a few times. And I always locked all cores statically to a frequency. They passed all stress tests with fying colors. And also passed TLOU Part 1 shader compilation and CInebench no WHEAs. Then a few weeks or month later BSOD or WHEA. I even had some where i slight undervolted at like 1.23V and ran at a lower 4.5GHz all ring and 5.3GHz all core with e-cores disabled. Was super stable and passed all tests with flying colors max temp even worst torture was like 83C and max power like 240 watts. Then a month or so later a WHEA and I threw in the towel on those parts and went 7800X3D. I wanted more than 8 cores on a single die but no such setup the config I wanted existed so figured ok just 8 cores. Now I figure just compromise as the setup I want with more than 8 homogenous cores on a single ring does not exist with modern arch (Comet Lake was last one and its IPC and PCIe Gen 3 platform is so far behind now) So I compromised. I would like 12 cores, but did not want dual CCDs. I went 7950X3D. Even though 16 cores a bit overkill, AMD does not have a setup with 8 core CCDs with more than 8 without going all 16. I was willing to give Intel e-cores a chance and kind of would have preferred it that way with an 8 + 12 or 8 + 16 config with HT off. But the Raptor Lake stability issues turned me away. Oh and for those that say my setup is stable with XMP on a 4 DIMM board. Just try running OCCT Large Dataset variable test and I bet after a urn or 2 or 3 a WHEA or core errors. I have someone who I did a lot of business with run the OCCT test on a DDR5 6600 XMP Tomahawk board with a Core 13900K. And then it got lots of core errors and I told them try it without XMP and they stated they do not care what that test does its stable in my workloads. I do not like that line of thinking. I am sorry but if it fails a test without faulty software that is not a power virus, I do not care if systems seems stable in other workloads. That is not stable and unacceptable. If you have a static overclock or fixed clock speeds and it fails a power virus extreme test because the het and power are just too much thats one thing and I can live with that. But OCCT Large Dataset variable is by no means a power virus that runs temps through the roof. Temps and power consumption are pretty moderate/mild on it compared to Prime95 Small FFTs and some of the Y CRUNCHER tests so if it cannot pass a very good stability test that is not a power virus like OCCT Large Dataset variable that is unacceptable. Plus the issues I stated I had above starting 1.5 to 2 years ago with static all core locked frequency before the microcode shows me that that is not some kind of fix. So I am staying with AMD for now. 7950X3D as it has 8 cores per CCD and no downgrade form 8 to 6 like the 7900X/7900X3D in relation to the single 8 core 7700X/9700X/7800X3D/9800X3D. If AMD had 12 core with one 8 core and one 4 core CCD would have gone that route but they do not. Intel better in that regard. Pity they degrade and are nit stable and Error Lake is such a flop.
@@nichronos thanks for the heads-up but not sure I can afford them. Plus I really just want the features and Thunderbolt, so I probably would only do full ATX.
@@nichronos I have a personal rep at my at UK supplier who can do me a deal. He gave me two quotes and I have either 9800x3d or 285k but I'm hoping intel fix their issues, as I really wanted it for production. My gaming needs are covered for a while on AM4. I just like ASRock boards. I take your point on the ram controllers but I really need the featureset and didn't want to spend more than 350 on a board when I have other bits to consider. I have my preorder down on battlemage set thankfully 😎
Great job! I'm sure it was a ton of work doing all that testing. I can't wait to see your tuned 9800X3D vs tuned Raptor Lake, as I'm running a tuned Raptor Lake setup myself
I would love to see a comparison for productivity workloads, I personally use blender/fusion every day and I’ve seen promising results for those types of workloads
I really like your approach in testing. One thing that is in my opinion smart thing to do is to show games how they run not just to put a graph and that's it. One can say that you faked the graphs.
I'm running 12 cores at 5.7/4.4 under 1.3v at a -.0.200voffset in my 13900KS chewing threw all the games in my library 🎉 temps are very low in the low 60s under heavy high loads 😊
@DannyzReviews now run both 14900K vs 285K vs earch other with 14900Ks SMT disabled !!! (SMT OFF) on 14900K (as 285K Doesnt have P core SMT 😭) illnever buy a CPU with out SMT
The AI nodes are very good and video editing related tasks, i.e. voice recognition, speec to text etc. are accelerated substantially as compared with previous CPUs without AI cores. But this is not something most reviews even mention. True: most people will not use those features unless they become more ubiquitous in home environment, be that work, study or gaming.
with the amount it costs you can't exactly call it good. for the cost it should be performing 20% better than a 9800x3d damn thing is expensive as all hell
good try, but I would say for RPL, the high ring clock is suspected to be contributing to the degradation issue, so that ARL have it tuned down, though it lowered the latency and improve performance, it is with some doubt will it degrade yet another intel gen if more ppl are doint this
@@BreakingDimes just to add context: raptorlake powers the ring with vcore voltage, that means 1,6v single p core boost also applies 1,6v to the ring. my 265k does 3,9 ghz ring clock at 1,0v. that gives you a hint at how massively overvolted the raptorlake ring is when the singlecore turbo kicks in and the board actually feeds 1,6v into the p cores. intel was begging for dead raptorlake cpus.
@@sgredschI'm aware I should have probably put that in my original comment but if you look at a oscilloscopes of the old microcode you could see greater than 1.6 volts going into the CPU socket kind of nuts but hopefully from all the boards I've seen that build zoid is tested they all very much enforce the 1.55 volt limit and you really only see that on the i-9s
now run both 14900K vs 285K vs earch other with 14900Ks SMT disabled !!! (SMT OFF) on 14900K (as 285K Doesnt have P core SMT 😭) illnever buy a CPU with out SMT
I guess it's Ok if they released a crap product if the alternative was to release a CPU which degrades over time (i.e. 13th and 14th gen). But yeah, don't say it's for gaming, or, price it appropriately to the performance being offered. I assume they are not planning on selling many of these at current prices.
I believe that Arrow Lake is an efficient laptop-oriented architecture, so losing to optimized Raptor Lake is no surprise. Arrow Lake is underwhelming on a good day. Lunar Lake is the real winner for Intel because of its huge efficiency gains vs. Meteor Lake, but Lunar Lake is a low-power architecture for high-end laptops. Intel Battlemage will be a strong step in the right direction after a weak 2024 of product launches for Intel.
Would love if someone did a "dip" deep dive to try and find the cause. Some things dont always show it, some dont seem to ever show it, some show it very regularly. Maybe its a ddr5 training error? Maybe related to dram-less ssd's? Or a windows backend issue. Or game engine or bios..
Intel should make a refresh and produce i9-14900k on TSMC 3nm process, that could give 9800x3d a run for its money. Or it could run cooler. Or both. It would certainly absolutely crush core 285 "ultra". 😅
@@traitretrudeau2367 It would, if anything, lower the cost of development and production, since you would not have to design the failed core 200 series, and can also get more chips per wafer from a proper 3nm process, versus intel fail 10 nm finfet shit. We should consider ourselves lucky intel did not think of this themselves, because then AMD would have a much harder sell for x3d cpu's, and i really want them to succeed. I believe intel is for PC customers, like Stellantis for car customers.
That “one off” processor is just a rumor. Intel isn’t going to design a new socket just to turn around and use it for one generation.. the Lga 1851 will last atleast for another generation. They have always produced 2 generations for chipset. They are too far in debt to even think about doing that.
Who the hell buys these new chips today to game at 1080p? The benchmarks are 1080p because that's the only way it's interesting. If the tests were at 1440p or 4K this wouldn't even be worth making a video because the scores would all be the same.
It has to do with Intel rushing the architecture. Along with tremendous latency issues with its design choices. It’s a half baked product that was also back ported onto TSMC’s node process.
I'm running a 265K (20 core) that is way faster than my 13700K in what I use a CPU for. It's running 5.5 P's and 5.0 E's. The MB is a MAG Z890 TOMAHAWK WIFI. AIDA64 64ns and 132K read It has the best memory controller of any CPU I have owned. I'm running that same memory (PATRIOT VIPER XTREME 5 7600MT/s C36) @ 8400 CL38. the next micro code update 0X114 is the magic update? I hope you test after that. Intel chips are way snapper than any AMD chip I have used. I have played the same game (Unreal Tournament for 24 years) so I don't need much of a CPU to do that.
Also I forgot to give you the credit you deserved for the effort that was put into this video. So then @DannyzReviews I thank you for the effort put into this great content.
@@traitretrudeau2367 That makes no sense. Games with ray tracing also put extra load on the CPU besides that GPU. There are already games being bottlenecked by the CPU. And even if this was not the case, why pay more for a slower CPU? Just get a cheap CPU that is a few gens old and just as fast.
@@traitretrudeau2367 Nobody buys a CPU only for today. And my argument stands: why pay more for a CPU when you can get a CPU with the same performance for much cheaper?
Why you have no overclocked the E-Core's??! My 245k is OC@D2D@3.3Ghz - Ring@4.5Ghz@NCU@3.4Ghz@EC@4.9-5.1Ghz-PC@5.3-5.5Ghz-Ram@7715Mhz@Cl32-43 ( AIDA64 68NS Latency), with this settings,I' "destroy" a 14900k in default settings!! ( F1 24) The Core Ultra models need a little bit of tuning, good memory timings and speed... In a few months Microsoft and Intel have improvments,who will still get a few percent out of it,certainly....
285K is a total waste for gaming versus the gaming Kings, 9800X3D and the 14900KS. Sure it is decent in productivity, but Raptor Lake is faster, and Zen 5 9950X is more stable, vastly more power efficient, but equally competent at completing productivity workloads quickly.
I forgot to say thank you very much for the tremendous review in my previous comment, but here many games with 1%low are horrible is a windows 11 problem, in windows 10 it works much better, that's why I hate windows 11 for all Intel or AMD platforms, windows 11 is so so bad, really men
Personally I feel like intel is going full E-core route. Who know we may gat something wierd like 64 core processor as core ultra 9 . You may think it is bad for gaming but it wont be that much. But it will have TDP of like 180-200W max.
@ oh I’m well aware, but microcode 12b fixed those issues. I went through 2 via the warranty claim. On the 3rd one, 12b microcode only since I got it, been solid af. The instability issues are over.
Nobody has time to tune. It's like those shitty AAA games that don't work right out of the box. PC gamers have to mod and tweak endlessly to get something working smoothly. It's already a process to buy a new CPU with a new mobo and other items to assemble a gaming rig. To expect customers to need to patch this and that and tune left, right, and center to achieve LESS performance than an older CPU is a joke.
Wow, wtf ? feels like bankruptcy is on it's way with that performance. Why would anyone buy intel with performance similar to the 13th or 12th generation cpus ?
Intel needs more Time to search and build CPU's with better Technology. 14000 = Is the same as You Producing a 3000 ps car and Buyer must see how cooling this s*** 😂 Ultras are only a fast Answer for that Disaster! come on Intel! ❤
People are allowed to dislike a product if it doesn't suit their needs, gaming is a huge segment of the DIY market there's a reason the 9800x3d is sold out everywhere.
Windows 10 is so so better, jufes testes de 265k in riftbreaker and the result in stock is 202 fps average 146 in the 1%lows and 103 in the 0.1% lows is a window problem, o hate window 11 for these kinds of things, my 285k arrives in 2 weeks and obviously I will tested riftbreaker first in window 10
Every product development has a deadline they need to meet and at a certain point they need to release a product( even if it's bad) to recoup some of its R&D cost.
These CPUs are nowhere near “TUNED” especially the 285k. The ecores can go to 5ghz easy and the Pcores can co to 5.3ghz easy.. The ring on you 285k is also pretty low, mine is at 4.6 ring and your ram configuration on both systems is garbage.. You can get nearly 20-30% of of the 285k by actually tuning this thing. Same for the 14900k.. Your video still serves a purpose but saying that you tuned these is extremely misleading.
if Linux users says "This CPU is bad" then it is likely bad. Because Linux has zero bloat that can run any CPU at its maximum potential no amount of Optimization will help a bad CPU if the system already Optimized
@@niezzayt3809 Its not an OS thing smooth brain its a BIOS configuration thing on Intel's end. Even Robert Hallock said its not the OS fault its on them.
Said months ago Raptor would hold it frequency through put lead in relation Arrow optimized for parallel operation low power AVX that is supported software wise and SIMD e cores parallel that lags on e-core compiler optimizations beyond those who have that continues Adobe for Raptor and Arrow it's a slow process. SO Danny report on what Ultra does right verse Raptor for productivity isn't that just the next serial installment? It's not like u r just a gamer. Hahaha ask some OEM / SI for Arrow prebuilt with dGPU and check those out for Office productivity and gaming on the side. Will we be astonished at what you find? I'm not sure. Oh the 9800X3D next no challenge just go with the flow? mb
this channel is such a gem. thanks for all the hard work! cant wait for the 9800x3d numbers. pretty happy with mine coming from a tuned 13900k.
Appriecate all the effort you put into the video!💯
If the new CPUs was at the same performance or a tad faster but much more energy efficient compared to Raptor Lake, it would be forgivable. But when the new CPU is alot slower in some cases and slower in general and is a tad more energy efficient it's not acceptable.
If these CPUs matched raptor lake at lower power draw I would have jumped on it and I think most people would have too
This is a necessary change, a 15900k with 6.4Ghz and insane Vcores would be better than 285k, but the power draw would be insane. It is not good for gamers but is necessary for the future. I'm not indicating this CPU for games, but the change is necessary.
We got the 9950X yet. Tuned one is a perfect chip.
got nothing to do with the CPUs, they lack hyperthreading yet windows and games still try to multithread. This is not an architectural issue.
@@graveriser even if you disable HT on the 14900k it will still be faster as a 285k
Intel promised a response on the issues with Arrow Lake to be published in early December. We are now approaching the middle of December.
IIRC, they said december, not specifically early.
They said bios fixes in q1 2025,, they never said december
@@digiross7199 I said a reponse in December explaning the issues and a path forward, not the solution.
@ralphz3849 ok gotcha. Misread
Their response was to fire Gelsinger 😊
This must have taken you days and days to test this many titles! Well done
Good honest review! I thought things would even out with oc tune, but nothing can fix this architecture with bios tweaks. If Intel later comes out with a fix I will be amazed that they waited so long while their reputation went down the drain like this.
@@impuls60 its not "honest". Without ARL patch its garbage.
No rage comments here, keep the high quality reviews coming. I really hope 2025 has some better products from Intel and look forward to you testing them
Great benchmarks
I'd love to see a lot more like this!
from market leader to performance regression gen over gen ... the story of yet another company that is not too big to fail.
The newer architecture is better and needed to be done 2-4 generations ago. This I think is Intels Ryzen moment (minus better performance) but long term they’ve set themselves up to maybe push the chips harder than before with lower power draw. If they just dropped a 15900K it would been barely faster and +50W in game on a chip that already pulls 220W in COD
yet its not all about gaming. this chip destroys everything in productivity.
@@FIVESTRZ Hi men, i always comment on your channel 70% less performance in a 1% low is a windows 11 issue, mi 285k it arrives next week, I will try all the games in Windows 10 and the difference will surely be between 5% less or 20% less in all games and 1% lows, jufes testes de 265k in windows 10 and he did much much better in riftbreaker at stock, 202 fps average and 146 in 1% lows in stock clocks, max oc = 33% more performance.
@@ignacioaltamirano9273 yea I also think custom ISO files help as well, let me know what you find but all these chiplet architectures seem to be better on W10 mainly from the schedulers if I understand correctly. Then Intel has one built in on their chips from Alder Lake on
@@brtcobra yea so future revisions will be quite nice to see HUGE gaming gains while keeping everything else they’ve improved on. MOST importantly I hope they take this opportunity to extend the socket lifecycles like AMD has done.
Intel really needs to drop price of 285-substantially.
Certainly needs to happen, but doubt it will drop much as they built it on an expensive TSMC node, and botched some of the haggling.. Intel pretty much boxed themselves in a corner. Now aside from needing profits, they'll have to find a new CEO to boot. At least Battlemage is looking promising for budget/entry level gamers.
They can't. Clownsinger lost his 40% discount at TSMC. Their margins are ridiculously low as is.
@@TheBlackIdentety *facepalm* this thing costs 10%-20% more than the current best cpu out for gaming and isn't and thats already the low price for it? doesn't that file it firmly into trash tier?
they need to sort shit out.
surely intel can work out how to slap some cache on these
They would have to drop the price on the older gen too. Its already pretty low as it is, and the better CPU gen. Damn, Intel really screwed up big time. They should make a 15900k on tsmc, just a raptor lake refresh with lower power consumption. Intel won't ever do that, but they better do something soon. How else are they going to turn things around.
@@Revoku *facepalm* you realize this CPU isn't JUST for gaming, right ?
Thanks for this very detailed and informative video.
Great stuff.
It's sad but I trust that Intel put out a CPU with a bad firmware patch that was non optimized. Hopefully that 30% increase updated is on the way. Same thing happened with the A570
Nice work. Man I can’t even handle just running TimeSpy and Heaven bench marks.
Hey man you seem like you might know the answer to this. If you had to choose between 9950x or 285k for work and gaming, which would you choose? I am hearing reports about input lag with the 285k, is this a thing? Has it been fixed?
im about to build a new pc and i cant decide between those two
X3D all the way!!! 9800X3D ROCKS
Naw. 9950x3d
thanks for this. I have a secondary pc build I can see about getting a intel setup going for I am keeping my z690 setup or maybe I should wait for nova lake to part out my x299 build
are you running the 14900k with power limits removed? apart from adjusting ac/dc load line. thanks.
CP2077 just came out with a patch yesterday that claims a 33% improvement on Arrow Lake chips, dunno if thats true or not.
Seen benchmarks that shows 50-60% improvements in the 1% lows after the patch, so actually playing the game should be much better now.
It is, and a lot of game developers will copy CP fixes too. Let's expect a marked improvement in overall gaming performance.
@@MrMeanh I don't have an Arrow Lake CPU which is why I said that, I noticed a massive boost in smoothness with my 13700K though. Game feels leagues better than 2.1
@@mirko991 Never use "CP" for Cyberpunk. 💀💀💀😬
Is it faster than 14900K now then?
Great video. Thank you.
What resolution you tested it please ?
720p )))
Man... the 285K really is reminding me of Bulldozer all over again...
It’s bad however it’s not Bulldozer at all. The cores are legit and it’s a lot more power efficient. Its workstation performance is either the same or a lot better than last generation. Gaming performance unfortunately just sucks badly.
It's built on Meteor Lake's design which was so bad that Intel had to cancel desktop hoping they would fix the issues by Arrow Lake.
Thank you for the hard work. I would like to see also 0.1% lows. Looks like 9950x3D is going to be the next CPU to be excited about.
No gamer is excited by cpus lol
the really weak lows are not wondering me when you run 8600Mb/s.
would love to see a 12h Karhu or P95 large fft over night to see if this is even remotely stable.
Is the crashing issue fixed? 14th gen cpus had the issue
I have no idea why you would use e-cores enabled for games more power draw ,no gains in fps and some games still struggle with scheduling giving horrible dips.
Nice job... I feel sad for the poor gamers unable to enjoy gains in this Price point.
Do these benchmarks take into consideration the microcode updates provided by intel to the motherboard manufacturers? I know that it was available for my MB 11/29. Intel states that it should improve the performance of the Arrow Lake chips.
Nevermind. Just heard in the last few minutes you don't care about testing the updates.
Is the Cyberpunk 2077 benchmark done with the latest patch? You know, the one that supposed to give a 33% performance bump to the Arrow Lake CPU's.
Unreal bad performance with the new Intel against the old 14900!! Almost hard to believe and thanks for showing us them.
hmm why not a ryzen 7800x3d in ncomparsion here also?
There is a big microcode coming out for the Ultra Core soon.
Might help a bit, but likely not much.
Can you please make a video on how you tuned the 14900k 😊
0:25 was that GROOSE in BG3? Lol
I don't think the 285K is an awful product but it's at a really bad price for what it is. Even with the issues that are facing 13th and 14th gen and hopefully they are fixed now I'd rather take those chips as they're more well-rounded you get great gaming performance and productivity at a good price
Yes bingo Raptor Lake is a better predict than Arrow or should I say Error Lake. Assuming the microcode is a true fix not just a band aide. But I fear its a band aide. so I am sticking with AMD for now and just got a 7950X3D so I have more than 8 cores. Unfortunately neither company has a CPU with more than 8 powerful homogenous cores on one die that is reliable.
I do like Intel's Raptor Lake even with the e0cores arch better than dual CCD as an 8 + 16 or 8 + 16 you can turn off HT and the hardware level scheduler works well. But the degradation and stability issues that I experienced scared me away even with the microcode fix (A design flaw in hardware I fear) off for my final decision went 7950X3D.
And Error Lake topology also sucks compared to Raptor Lake with e-core clusters in the middle of P cores.
If either company releases more than 8 cores of modern IPC Zen4/Golden Cove or higher on a single die, I will sell and jump ay it. But thats a big if and that is unlikely to happen anytime soon before Zen 6 and we have no idea what Zen 6 is gonna be yet.
So 7950X3D and process Lasso and Gamebar for now as 8 cores of 7800X3D/9800X3D just psychologically feels too small to go more high end video card (5090 6090 etc...) upgrades leaving core system (mobo, CPU, cooler and case) intact the next few years.
Not only is raptor lake very affordable and can be had for good prices you can get a great motherboard for 200 or less and can get some 6,000 or 7200 memory and not worry about it. I would like to move to ryzen eventually but right now there's just no motherboards I really like on that platform other than the x870e nova. I also do a lot of stuff that's pretty memory heavy and when ryzen finally upgrades their iodie/infinity fabric I'll be jumping to it right away @Wolverine607
@@Wolverine607You don’t need the bad micro code patch. All you have to do is lock your cores in the bios. Which will keep all cores at 5.7 GHz and prevent the 6.2ghz massive voltage spike from happening. Which causes the core degradation over time.
@@ZackSNetwork During my journey which involved swapping multiple parts and also mobos and yes Raptor Lake CPUsd that began 2 years ago to find an RTX 4090 with no coil whine. I also had DDR5 XMP stability issues so went to DDR4 and then back a few times.
And I always locked all cores statically to a frequency. They passed all stress tests with fying colors.
And also passed TLOU Part 1 shader compilation and CInebench no WHEAs.
Then a few weeks or month later BSOD or WHEA.
I even had some where i slight undervolted at like 1.23V and ran at a lower 4.5GHz all ring and 5.3GHz all core with e-cores disabled. Was super stable and passed all tests with flying colors max temp even worst torture was like 83C and max power like 240 watts. Then a month or so later a WHEA and I threw in the towel on those parts and went 7800X3D.
I wanted more than 8 cores on a single die but no such setup the config I wanted existed so figured ok just 8 cores. Now I figure just compromise as the setup I want with more than 8 homogenous cores on a single ring does not exist with modern arch (Comet Lake was last one and its IPC and PCIe Gen 3 platform is so far behind now)
So I compromised. I would like 12 cores, but did not want dual CCDs. I went 7950X3D. Even though 16 cores a bit overkill, AMD does not have a setup with 8 core CCDs with more than 8 without going all 16.
I was willing to give Intel e-cores a chance and kind of would have preferred it that way with an 8 + 12 or 8 + 16 config with HT off. But the Raptor Lake stability issues turned me away.
Oh and for those that say my setup is stable with XMP on a 4 DIMM board. Just try running OCCT Large Dataset variable test and I bet after a urn or 2 or 3 a WHEA or core errors.
I have someone who I did a lot of business with run the OCCT test on a DDR5 6600 XMP Tomahawk board with a Core 13900K. And then it got lots of core errors and I told them try it without XMP and they stated they do not care what that test does its stable in my workloads.
I do not like that line of thinking. I am sorry but if it fails a test without faulty software that is not a power virus, I do not care if systems seems stable in other workloads. That is not stable and unacceptable.
If you have a static overclock or fixed clock speeds and it fails a power virus extreme test because the het and power are just too much thats one thing and I can live with that. But OCCT Large Dataset variable is by no means a power virus that runs temps through the roof. Temps and power consumption are pretty moderate/mild on it compared to Prime95 Small FFTs and some of the Y CRUNCHER tests so if it cannot pass a very good stability test that is not a power virus like OCCT Large Dataset variable that is unacceptable.
Plus the issues I stated I had above starting 1.5 to 2 years ago with static all core locked frequency before the microcode shows me that that is not some kind of fix. So I am staying with AMD for now. 7950X3D as it has 8 cores per CCD and no downgrade form 8 to 6 like the 7900X/7900X3D in relation to the single 8 core 7700X/9700X/7800X3D/9800X3D. If AMD had 12 core with one 8 core and one 4 core CCD would have gone that route but they do not. Intel better in that regard. Pity they degrade and are nit stable and Error Lake is such a flop.
14900k destroys 285k, take it back to 5% faster render benches
@@nichronos I'm going for the 285K.
@@nichronos Oh no I was going to go for the ASRock Nova
@@nichronos thanks for the heads-up but not sure I can afford them. Plus I really just want the features and Thunderbolt, so I probably would only do full ATX.
@@nichronos I have a personal rep at my at UK supplier who can do me a deal. He gave me two quotes and I have either 9800x3d or 285k but I'm hoping intel fix their issues, as I really wanted it for production. My gaming needs are covered for a while on AM4. I just like ASRock boards. I take your point on the ram controllers but I really need the featureset and didn't want to spend more than 350 on a board when I have other bits to consider. I have my preorder down on battlemage set thankfully 😎
@@nichronos You wish.... in 45 games 14900k win over 9800x3d in 3 by 2-5% but loose in 41 by around 20% on average and in some more than 50%
Great job! I'm sure it was a ton of work doing all that testing. I can't wait to see your tuned 9800X3D vs tuned Raptor Lake, as I'm running a tuned Raptor Lake setup myself
I would love to see a comparison for productivity workloads, I personally use blender/fusion every day and I’ve seen promising results for those types of workloads
great vid
How did you manage to run the 14900k at 5.7ghz. I am running stock now
Adjust your AC/DC Loadline
I really like your approach in testing. One thing that is in my opinion smart thing to do is to show games how they run not just to put a graph and that's it. One can say that you faked the graphs.
I'm running 12 cores at 5.7/4.4 under 1.3v at a -.0.200voffset in my 13900KS chewing threw all the games in my library 🎉 temps are very low in the low 60s under heavy high loads 😊
Damm the new 14900k is so much better than the old 285k, can't wait to see what performance the 15900k delivers
The 15900k is the 285k....
@DannyzReviews
now run both 14900K vs 285K vs earch other with 14900Ks SMT disabled !!! (SMT OFF) on 14900K (as 285K Doesnt have P core SMT 😭) illnever buy a CPU with out SMT
pealing masking tape off the chip cap will force a static charge, not good.
The AI nodes are very good and video editing related tasks, i.e. voice recognition, speec to text etc. are accelerated substantially as compared with previous CPUs without AI cores. But this is not something most reviews even mention. True: most people will not use those features unless they become more ubiquitous in home environment, be that work, study or gaming.
with the amount it costs you can't exactly call it good.
for the cost it should be performing 20% better than a 9800x3d damn thing is expensive as all hell
The 14900k came out year earlier, has decent egpu and shits on 7950x666xd in blender or any other work application.
@@melissafpsit does not, i have one in their neck and neck, otherwise I never would have bought it
good try, but I would say for RPL, the high ring clock is suspected to be contributing to the degradation issue, so that ARL have it tuned down, though it lowered the latency and improve performance, it is with some doubt will it degrade yet another intel gen if more ppl are doint this
it's not the high ring clocks it's the high single threaded voltage that degrades the ring
@@BreakingDimes just to add context: raptorlake powers the ring with vcore voltage, that means 1,6v single p core boost also applies 1,6v to the ring.
my 265k does 3,9 ghz ring clock at 1,0v. that gives you a hint at how massively overvolted the raptorlake ring is when the singlecore turbo kicks in and the board actually feeds 1,6v into the p cores.
intel was begging for dead raptorlake cpus.
@@sgredschI'm aware I should have probably put that in my original comment but if you look at a oscilloscopes of the old microcode you could see greater than 1.6 volts going into the CPU socket kind of nuts but hopefully from all the boards I've seen that build zoid is tested they all very much enforce the 1.55 volt limit and you really only see that on the i-9s
why are you core clocks like 4,582mhz not 4,600mhz and 5,672mhz not 5,700mhz
Most likely doesn't have forced 100 MHz BCLK on
That's a reporting bug with MSI afterburner/Rivatuner. bclk is locked to 100mhz, and is reported 5.7/4.6 in hwinfo
These CPUs should have been priced lower, just like AMD did when they were behind. They are almost a waste of sand.
Those 1% lows on their latest flagship are a complete joke
Do a test with 285k vs 14900k with no HT. 285k and 14900k have the same amount of cores only HT is the difference...
now run both 14900K vs 285K vs earch other with 14900Ks SMT disabled !!! (SMT OFF) on 14900K (as 285K Doesnt have P core SMT 😭) illnever buy a CPU with out SMT
win12 will be optimized heavily for non HT chips bud. Things are going to change.
I guess it's Ok if they released a crap product if the alternative was to release a CPU which degrades over time (i.e. 13th and 14th gen). But yeah, don't say it's for gaming, or, price it appropriately to the performance being offered. I assume they are not planning on selling many of these at current prices.
Sheesh 365 fps in bo6? Is that with the benchmark or in game. I have a 13900k with tuned ram and I only get like 310 in the benchmark
This cpu is still unobtanium. Either they aren't making it anymore or the demand for it is absurd.
I believe that Arrow Lake is an efficient laptop-oriented architecture, so losing to optimized Raptor Lake is no surprise. Arrow Lake is underwhelming on a good day. Lunar Lake is the real winner for Intel because of its huge efficiency gains vs. Meteor Lake, but Lunar Lake is a low-power architecture for high-end laptops. Intel Battlemage will be a strong step in the right direction after a weak 2024 of product launches for Intel.
Would love if someone did a "dip" deep dive to try and find the cause. Some things dont always show it, some dont seem to ever show it, some show it very regularly. Maybe its a ddr5 training error? Maybe related to dram-less ssd's? Or a windows backend issue. Or game engine or bios..
Intel should make a refresh and produce i9-14900k on TSMC 3nm process, that could give 9800x3d a run for its money. Or it could run cooler. Or both. It would certainly absolutely crush core 285 "ultra". 😅
Would triple the price for sure
@@traitretrudeau2367 It would, if anything, lower the cost of development and production, since you would not have to design the failed core 200 series, and can also get more chips per wafer from a proper 3nm process, versus intel fail 10 nm finfet shit.
We should consider ourselves lucky intel did not think of this themselves, because then AMD would have a much harder sell for x3d cpu's, and i really want them to succeed.
I believe intel is for PC customers, like Stellantis for car customers.
I'm so happy I didn't upgrade to the 285k, especially when they told us it's a one-off with no path for upgrade
That “one off” processor is just a rumor. Intel isn’t going to design a new socket just to turn around and use it for one generation.. the Lga 1851 will last atleast for another generation. They have always produced 2 generations for chipset. They are too far in debt to even think about doing that.
Not accurate at all
They planned an Arrow Lake refresh which was canceled by a month before Arrow Lake's release, so currently they don't have anything until 2026.
Intel has lost the plot. The only redeeming factor on these is the amazing AV1 encoding
is insulting test top tier cpu and not run rpcs3 ps3 emulation is quita heavy for cpu
Who the hell buys these new chips today to game at 1080p? The benchmarks are 1080p because that's the only way it's interesting. If the tests were at 1440p or 4K this wouldn't even be worth making a video because the scores would all be the same.
How is this possibile older product is better? Why would Intel spend time on 15gen if it's 20% slower?
It has to do with Intel rushing the architecture. Along with tremendous latency issues with its design choices. It’s a half baked product that was also back ported onto TSMC’s node process.
I'm running a 265K (20 core) that is way faster than my 13700K in what I use a CPU for. It's running 5.5 P's and 5.0 E's.
The MB is a MAG Z890 TOMAHAWK WIFI. AIDA64 64ns and 132K read
It has the best memory controller of any CPU I have owned. I'm running that same memory (PATRIOT VIPER XTREME 5 7600MT/s C36) @ 8400 CL38.
the next micro code update 0X114 is the magic update? I hope you test after that.
Intel chips are way snapper than any AMD chip I have used. I have played the same game (Unreal Tournament for 24 years) so I don't need much of a CPU to do that.
Unfortunately I can't get above 7800mhz, no matter what I do with my 245k...
@@planet456235 You need the right stuff to do it...Board and memory
9800x3d should also be in your chart in this video
It's coming soon 😊
@ Nice 👍
Also I forgot to give you the credit you deserved for the effort that was put into this video. So then @DannyzReviews I thank you for the effort put into this great content.
Did Intel really think that it was a good idea to release the 285K with this performance?
Performances are great, dont buy it if you play 1080p with a 4090... no one does... intel is just smart
@@traitretrudeau2367 That makes no sense. Games with ray tracing also put extra load on the CPU besides that GPU. There are already games being bottlenecked by the CPU. And even if this was not the case, why pay more for a slower CPU? Just get a cheap CPU that is a few gens old and just as fast.
@@nossy232323 if you argument wasnt supported by less than 2% of games, it would be a good one
@@traitretrudeau2367 Nobody buys a CPU only for today. And my argument stands: why pay more for a CPU when you can get a CPU with the same performance for much cheaper?
@@nossy232323 whatever makes you happy son
Damn RUclips, Why did you show this video to me after I just ordered the X870e motherboard 💀
Why you have no overclocked the E-Core's??! My 245k is OC@D2D@3.3Ghz - Ring@4.5Ghz@NCU@3.4Ghz@EC@4.9-5.1Ghz-PC@5.3-5.5Ghz-Ram@7715Mhz@Cl32-43 ( AIDA64 68NS Latency), with this settings,I' "destroy" a 14900k in default settings!! ( F1 24) The Core Ultra models need a little bit of tuning, good memory timings and speed... In a few months Microsoft and Intel have improvments,who will still get a few percent out of it,certainly....
Intel got too lazy and complacent. Full of DEI hires.
So basically everything gets dips apart from 10900k's and x3d CPUs.
285K is a total waste for gaming versus the gaming Kings, 9800X3D and the 14900KS. Sure it is decent in productivity, but Raptor Lake is faster, and Zen 5 9950X is more stable, vastly more power efficient, but equally competent at completing productivity workloads quickly.
raptorlake is not faster in productivity, in fact, 265k equals or beats the 14900k already. and there are also no stability issues with arrowlake.
Tunned... no cache OC lol
that is a pretty mobo
This is ridiculous. 😵💫
I forgot to say thank you very much for the tremendous review in my previous comment, but here many games with 1%low are horrible is a windows 11 problem, in windows 10 it works much better, that's why I hate windows 11 for all Intel or AMD platforms, windows 11 is so so bad, really men
If you ran at 5120x2160 either CPU would have the same results :)
Major fail especially with this kind of pricing
Should be no risk showing the CPU lid numbers. Still not buying it due intel’s deception on the raptor lake situation.
The 285 is not a gaming cpu
Seems like Intel has no gaming chip at all this gen.
so what's crazy about these benchmarks? 🤔
Personally I feel like intel is going full E-core route. Who know we may gat something wierd like 64 core processor as core ultra 9 . You may think it is bad for gaming but it wont be that much. But it will have TDP of like 180-200W max.
Nah
we have those already - intel atoms n5000 etc stuff 6w cpus are gr8
They have a 64E core Xeon with 205W TDPin case you have $2700 for that.
Glad I got the 14900KS. Definitely still the top dog. Especially when it's tuned.
Unfortunately, these CPUs can "die", then you can no longer use them...
@ oh I’m well aware, but microcode 12b fixed those issues. I went through 2 via the warranty claim. On the 3rd one, 12b microcode only since I got it, been solid af. The instability issues are over.
Intel clearly gave up on gaming.
Imagine using intel 2024 if you are gaming. Not worth it
Nobody has time to tune. It's like those shitty AAA games that don't work right out of the box. PC gamers have to mod and tweak endlessly to get something working smoothly. It's already a process to buy a new CPU with a new mobo and other items to assemble a gaming rig. To expect customers to need to patch this and that and tune left, right, and center to achieve LESS performance than an older CPU is a joke.
Wow, wtf ? feels like bankruptcy is on it's way with that performance. Why would anyone buy intel with performance similar to the 13th or 12th generation cpus ?
Intel needs more Time to search and build CPU's with better Technology.
14000 = Is the same as You Producing a 3000 ps car and Buyer must see how cooling this s*** 😂
Ultras are only a fast Answer for that Disaster! come on Intel! ❤
Intel must cut the price of i9 285k about 15% , no one should buy this CPU at current price
It seems that the modern user does not know at all what the cpu is for besides games.
Better buy a console and don’t waste your time
People are allowed to dislike a product if it doesn't suit their needs, gaming is a huge segment of the DIY market there's a reason the 9800x3d is sold out everywhere.
tuned 14900k that about to die
Windows 10 is so so better, jufes testes de 265k in riftbreaker and the result in stock is 202 fps average 146 in the 1%lows and 103 in the 0.1% lows is a window problem, o hate window 11 for these kinds of things, my 285k arrives in 2 weeks and obviously I will tested riftbreaker first in window 10
😅Intel 3nm Burns up very very Quick if u OC Gaming it. Less then 3 year=it all burn up😂=Cancel Orders
...and I thought 11th gen was bad
What on earth was Intel thinking?
They are trying something new. I'll give them pat on the back for changing their way of thinking and innovating. It's gonna take time.
Every product development has a deadline they need to meet and at a certain point they need to release a product( even if it's bad) to recoup some of its R&D cost.
@@kartikpintu Yeah the first gen of any new architecture is rough. Look at Intel Arc to Battlemage its progresses each gen.
These CPUs are nowhere near “TUNED” especially the 285k. The ecores can go to 5ghz easy and the Pcores can co to 5.3ghz easy.. The ring on you 285k is also pretty low, mine is at 4.6 ring and your ram configuration on both systems is garbage.. You can get nearly 20-30% of of the 285k by actually tuning this thing. Same for the 14900k.. Your video still serves a purpose but saying that you tuned these is extremely misleading.
Feel free to make your own video about it.
thats ridiculous, even my 12700K is better. Can't whait to switch to AMD
Rumour has it that Intel will be releasing a "Big fix" for their new cpu's in the next month or so. We shall soon see.
if Linux users says "This CPU is bad" then it is likely bad.
Because Linux has zero bloat that can run any CPU at its maximum potential
no amount of Optimization will help a bad CPU if the system already Optimized
@@niezzayt3809 Its not an OS thing smooth brain its a BIOS configuration thing on Intel's end. Even Robert Hallock said its not the OS fault its on them.
lmao
Said months ago Raptor would hold it frequency through put lead in relation Arrow optimized for parallel operation low power AVX that is supported software wise and SIMD e cores parallel that lags on e-core compiler optimizations beyond those who have that continues Adobe for Raptor and Arrow it's a slow process. SO Danny report on what Ultra does right verse Raptor for productivity isn't that just the next serial installment? It's not like u r just a gamer. Hahaha ask some OEM / SI for Arrow prebuilt with dGPU and check those out for Office productivity and gaming on the side. Will we be astonished at what you find? I'm not sure. Oh the 9800X3D next no challenge just go with the flow? mb