Riders, what a crazy week over 11,000 Meters of vertical climbing to find out which ebike motor has the best RANGE... I hope you like it like always if you have any questions just ask.
Sam, What a fantastic piece of work. However, I found a problem with a certain set of data: Rocky Mt. and Canyon Strive Bosch data. Rocky Mt.w/Dyname went farther kms than Canyon Strive On w/Bosch, but achieved less altitude. Normally the further you go, you will accumulate more altitude, assuming you were doing the same trail with all bikes. It is not a major problem, it is a small problem with the data presented. Changing the subject, Have you ever thought of publishing your strava ride links along with your videos? It would really add more fun with your channel! Anyway, thanks for ALL OF YOUR AWESOME WORK over the years!
Another question. Riding the LEVO was by far the longest time of over 3hrs.and at the highest heart rate of 126. Were you going slower, or stopping more to visit with friends on the trail?
@LesterLin mate that was it I shot some videos with the Levo because I have the cranks on them and I also meet up with two pro enduro riders I hadn’t seen in a long time! Sorry about that as I said the times are a little out but the most important is the vertical meters and kms I think as it was the same trail up and down
@@SamsBikes Thanks Sam. Please look at my first message that deals with vertical meters and kms problem with data related to Rocky Mt. and Strive ON w/Bosch data.
What an epic video! That kind of test is what we are looking for, real life test, with accurate data. Great video again. Looking forward to see next episode!!
I'm at that age where I sometimes wonder, "did I say this, or just think it real hard?"! You are the "Cal Worthington" of ebikes. That's a compliment. Knowledgeable and enthusiastic.
Hahahaha thanks rider I just google Cal sounded like a legend so I’ll take that thanks, yep only the only crazy one that does things like this so you riders don’t have to
Really good data. In mainly eco mode I rode my new Turbo Levo Comp Alloy Gen 3 over four rides totaling 66km, 1,003M ascent and used 61% battery. I'm really impressed with the range.
I think what you have done is a massive effort Sam. Great job. It would be very difficult to generalise each motor and battery without looking at the bike as well i.e amount of travel etc as it would definitely affect the bike range as a whole! I still think that buying an ebike is like buying a car and one has set their mind based on the motor and bike geo etc. This test does give an estimate of the bike's real world range and I think this will be an added info for the potential buyers. If one wants to have a BIG day out and doesn't want to get caught just bring an extra battery or range extenders . Keep it up
Hey mate thanks for these words, so much work went into this and it’s exactly what you said I was trying to explain no range test will be perfect there are so many variables but this is more or less what you are going to get with one rider over all different motors and battery’s
My ride is a Focus Sam2 6.0 with the CX Race motor 750Wh battery and I was interested to see how it stacks up in this test. Like you said this is probably the only test on youtube comparing these motor/battery combo and I totally agree. Unless it's done in a lab it is hard to control the variables! 2 thumbs up from me again for your effort Sam.
It’s got to the point where most motor/battery systems will cover way more than the average rider needs on a typical mixed terrain long distance outing. There will always be exceptions but I’m more than happy with what my Comp Alloy Levo has to offer - well, for the foreseeable future 😎
So much fun to watch, thx for the effort. Just sold my 4y old Merida eone sixty with an 504Wh battery, not enough anymore. Now this helps! But i hardly used the highest support mode (Turbo on Shimano) because it’s just too much.
Crazy test and a lot of effort, but I am a litle bit confused about the results or maybe the method of the test and calculations. According the test the Brose by Specialized is the most eficient: but this bike was the slowest one over 3h09min ride time to the 1607m. Giant was "not that great" however it was a half an hour quicker (2h36min to the 1533m) and the Shimano was the fastest motor 2h27min ridetime for the 1753m ride. It means to me that the assistance levels are not the same with the turbo settings and the weakest motor (in the sprints) helped the most to the rider and privided the rider in the shortest time to the most elevastion. This shows great the difference between short term and long term power of the bikes. It is also remakable how different was the result of the Brose by Sram then Brose by Specialized. It shows that the software tune how much difference mean...
Yep as I said, the times were all out for a few reason, one I was doing some filming in the mountains 🏔️ on a few of the bikes and also on a few days people stopped me and wanted to chat the important number is the vertical and KMs sorry about this but it was a really hard test and tried to do it the best I could
Great video and loving the channel 👍 I've just bought 4x Schwalbe Tacky Chan's for our eBikes (Trek Rail's) - thanks to your recommendation and sponsorship.
Hey Peter thanks for the kind works let me know how you get on with the Tacky Chans, ultra soft super DH Casing I run 24 psi and soft super gravity casing 28psi on the back with 85kg is my go to more weight add some psi
Thanks for the test, great job! I was amazed by the Rocky Mountain engine, it is the most powerful of all 108 hm but at the same time it gives an excellent climb, considering that the battery is not the largest in the test!
What about adding the avg km/h you made as well? Important because some bikes had less ride time but longer distance and greater elevation gains...which would suggest the assist factor of each motor.
Hi Sam, Nice work!! Your result surprises me on some part, i was especting the rocky to be slower at equal heartrate, because it duplicate your power less, thus increasing the range. With the data you already have, consider adding the time to your result. Meaning, if two motor give similar range, but the second take more time to accomplish it, it means that you as the rider , put the same power but for longer, meaning that the efficiency of the second motor has to be less than the first motor.
Hey mate thanks for the comment and I hear what you’re saying next time I need to pick an area that people don’t know me! I picked the most popular route in Madrid to do this mainly because I could roll back to the campervan so the times are way out because of me talking to rider
@@SamsBikes ok good to know, i was about to do the analysis on my own with your data, but i understand it wont be accurate. Btw i’ve got a Norco Range VLT with the ep8 and 900wh battery, and it seems to be about the same range (at equal rider weight) than the bosch with 750wh. Also, i recently change my 165mm crank for 150mm. It seems to me that it is a lot more easy to get to higher RPM and the motor seems to like it. Power wise , it feels like the motor is more in it’s powerband than before, but i’m curious to see if it will be more in it’s efficient powerband. Our bike season start in a few weeks, i’ll keep you updated if your are interested.
What an impressive effort mate!!! But worth it for sure... Pretty similar numbers mostly, but curious the difference between the Sram Brose and the Specialized Brose. I think the software has a lot there, they've been fine tunning the package quite a lot of years now.
another brilliant video ❤ congrats keep up!! after changing to shorter cranks on your reign e+ do you feel like you lost a bit of the motor power? kept the same chainring?
Interesting to compare the SyncDrive results on the Reign vs your test on the Trance 2 years ago where the SyncDrive did well. The Reign is a beast of a bike.
good video! I think the most important thing in this case would have been to normalize the rider's power with pedals and use the normalized power, rather than the heart rate since it can suffer a lot of variability due to different things. May be another time. Just today I did a 1900m climb in eco and a bit of trail riding on my turbo levo, friends with Bosch and different battery sizes. We reached 2600 meters above sea level and I had 35% of the battery left.
I think it would have been interesting to see the average speed as a point to compare also. If a system can boost along at a higher average speed in turbo then it’s likely to get through its power quicker. On my Bosch setup I ride mostly in emtb mode rather than turbo, not because I want to save power but I find it more natural and easier to control.
@@SamsBikes I totally get it and really appreciate the huge effort you've committed to bring us this content. Thanks and great work with the channel and this series. Is motor derestricting a subject you dont really want to discuss? Seems a like a massive elephant in the room with every emtb review ever. My riding buddies (about 10-12 of us) would never consider a bike if it couldn't be derestricted. My mate sold his Pole Vioma because it was too hard to derestrict. Would be valuable to add something about this when reviewing the motor systems. On my Gen 4 Rail I'm using the NSL Speedi derestrict and loving it.
This was a great test! It would have been really interesting to see the rider power stats though. I know you tried to maintain a consistent HR but its hard to tell how many WH you contributed. The comparison i want to look at is the ep801 vs the specialized. The ep801 did 1700m 40min faster than the Levo did 1600. That means the 801 was pulling an average of 360w to the levos 230. who knows if those numbers were impacted by cheeky chats though 😄.
Great comprehensive test. Quite the workout. Looking at ave speed, Specialized was the slowest under 11 km/hr , with the rest in 13-14 km/hr , shimano at 16. Why Specialized so slow, over half hour longer against similar distances?
great video, thanks! I just wonder why there is such a big difference between the SRAM Powertrain and the Levo. In the end, they use the same Brose motor
when it comes to the efficiency of the drive unit (elevation meter per one Wh): spec -2,29 m/1Wh rocky -2,26 m/1Wh bosh -2,18 m/1Wh bafang -2,06 m/1Wh shimano -1,95 m/1Wh syncdrive -1,91 m/1Wh sram -1,87 m/1Wh
Thanks Rider I was going to break it down like this but felt putting it the standard or most common size battery was easier to understand for the average rider
Hey mate yes it was a crazy test and I won’t be repeating, next time I’ll get a stunt rider! I think it comes down to the software and quality of battery cells more than belt,l seeing the SRAM and Specialized use the same motor
it's amazing you were able to complete the test while being . BRAVO ! well done . i think also the voltage of the battery might have something to do with efficiency ? i heard a 48 volt system is more efficient ? yeah , have a youngish rider do it the next time . just have a large supply of espresso on hand .
Very impressive test! 😮 and i can confirm, shimano is always the worse about the range, and specialized always the best, i can say the bosch cx (not the race version) will perform exactly the same as specialized...
The problem with Powerplay is that it gives according to rider input. So it technically has the most range. But when it is pushed hard it is going to have the least range. At least you have the most power for it. But the problem is the power is slow to come not instant like Bosch. So you are really losing a lot of power to not accelerating early.
@@SamsBikes wow I have that motor in my Crestline. I hardly ever leave it in race cause I can almost feel the battery draw. It must be really good in turbo. I thought it would have easily out climbed the other motors due to the power.
@@SamsBikes I am serious, been looking at coming to Spain to ride and where I will source ebikes especially in Basque and Malaga areas. I ride a Rise, and want a Wild, but neither of those bikes can travel so I may have to get a Propain Ekano 2 CF since the battery can be removed. Not sure I am sold on a Relay yet.
My only problem with the test is that with the massive range of battery sizes, the motor/battery weight difference is a factor. When you do math to pretend they all have a 750wh battery, then of course the Specialized will win. I realize there is no perfect test, but if you are going to call it the range monster test, the only results that matter is the one with the overall longest range. I think you added the 750wh results because it had a major impact on Specialized result and you are most definitely a fan boy
Hey Eric thanks for the comment, I only used 750wh battery because it seems the most normal size these days. If you did the maths at 700 or 800 they would be the same in terms of percentage of performance.
The Race version of the Bosch CX motor, does 20% worse than the standard motor. Know from experience. The standard CX would have beaten everything else.
You should have made all bikes the same weight by adding weight to all bikes to match the heaviest bike. As all bikes had different size batteries (different weight to carry) the bikes with the smallest batteries had an advantage when calculating them all to 750 wh. Likewise the bikes with the biggest batteries had a disadvantage.
No ways I’m getting anything near that range and vertical with my levo. And I’m 8 kilos lighter. Unless you climbing up a smooth fire road all day. But still enjoyed the video 👍
I was impressed with all systems after doing similar tests in the last 3 years, I think all systems did really well but I put it down to the tires! The tacky Chan rolls so well similar grip to Magic Mary buy was better rolling
@@SamsBikes Just sayin. I wish you guys would do an absolute range test. I'm a big mountain rider (E-splorer) and knowing how far I can go is critical.
@@jbdbsb yep I get you but it’s rider and machine so it really does come down to how much you have in the tank you can put eco really low and go for 3000 meter if your fit
Done it the range was very good 👍 but didn’t include on this test because I did it last year in my test, ruclips.net/video/0i5AsEzsP6Y/видео.htmlsi=RW9BXHcKYxnrfEyR
For me Shimano is winner because you solve 37,78km in just 2:27, and with Levo 33,85 km in 3:09h… Men, what a diffrenece… Even HR is lover.. In that perspective the Shimano is strongest!?
yamaha is the best ebike motor, not the giant ones as they use fkn can bus but the og motors were made to be serviced all all parts can be bought even the controller just not the bms, and my bosch gen 2 cx motor is now 11 years old and 39.6mph on the flat no road bike can beat me ever and my dongle cut off limit is 134.6mph
Completely flawed “test”. Normalizing for heart rate? U kidding? U should put all bikes at max power mode and ride at same SPEED(km/hr). Your test is completely bogus.. perhaps on purpose (sponsor?). Each bike has numerous assist levels that don’t equate across the bikes so u need to test at max assist level. Then normalize for avg speed. All these motors feel mostly the same at max assist. So u really should ensure u r riding each bike at same avg speed first and foremost. There can be a sig diff in speed with minimal heart rate variation. This is a large margin of error and can explain the range deltas.
Can’t keep everyone happy, it’s a real world test and 125bpm is what the average rider does ie me and that’s the best way I saw to do it! If you would like to do it better give it a go and send me the link
@@SamsBikes Hi Sam, it is not about keeping everyone happy. It is a matter of raw logic. It’s simply a flawed test. Not trying to give u a hard time. Your margin of error here is in hundreds of meters mate. Period. I’ve seen a few other range tests and they r even worse than yours. They flip flop between assists levels on each bike. Which means there is no control over the amount of work done by each bike what so ever. At this point, I can’t help but feel most of this is on purpose.
OK, so the way I see it each rider has a different fitness level and if we’re looking at Motor and rider combined, so we need to set an effort level of the rider which was 125 bpm in my mind it doesn’t matter how fast each system is it matters how much vertical meters climbed per system With the average input of the rider the same! As I said want to give it a go I’ll lend you all the bikes and have a crack
@@SamsBikes I’m in Canada. That is a nice offer though. 2 issues. First, each rider has a diff cardio fitness level. So at same heart rate they can put in significantly diff muscle energy. When I look at my cardio fitness level and some of my colleagues, there is a universe in between. This is a massive factor. Second, in any cardio task, there is a significant work margin before my heart rate changes. I need to push quite a bit more for my HR to increase. When u add these 2 factors together, u have a margin of error that will be hundreds of meters. All bikes need to be at max assist level, same track, same conditions, same rider, same avg speed. Not all bikes need to be tested same day… If flat, I’d say same gear as well… but that is not needed for mountain if avg speed is same. The assistance provided by motor is based on assist level asked for and bike speed. I do appreciate your comments. I can’t help but feel that since there isn’t a single properly done range test on YT, it can’t be an accident. Based on your engagement here I feel that in your case it is just an honest test design issue.
@xyz1663 basing it on heart rate seems pretty reasonable to me. It would be impossible to base it on speed on a real world single track climb which required gear changes and slowing for corners etc. And if it was a straight constant gradient then the less powerful motors would assumably use more power just to maintain the same speed as the bigger ones.
@SamsBikes.. Legend. @xyz1663 ..Not legend "i'm in Canada" That statement didn't help his argument or credibility 😂 Looking forward to the next episodes Legend!
Riders, what a crazy week over 11,000 Meters of vertical climbing to find out which ebike motor has the best RANGE... I hope you like it like always if you have any questions just ask.
Unbelievable effort to pull this test off! The definitive e-bike range test, hands down. Bravo!
Sam, What a fantastic piece of work. However, I found a problem with a certain set of data: Rocky Mt. and Canyon Strive Bosch data. Rocky Mt.w/Dyname went farther kms than Canyon Strive On w/Bosch, but achieved less altitude. Normally the further you go, you will accumulate more altitude, assuming you were doing the same trail with all bikes. It is not a major problem, it is a small problem with the data presented. Changing the subject, Have you ever thought of publishing your strava ride links along with your videos? It would really add more fun with your channel! Anyway, thanks for ALL OF YOUR AWESOME WORK over the years!
Another question. Riding the LEVO was by far the longest time of over 3hrs.and at the highest heart rate of 126. Were you going slower, or stopping more to visit with friends on the trail?
@LesterLin mate that was it I shot some videos with the Levo because I have the cranks on them and I also meet up with two pro enduro riders I hadn’t seen in a long time! Sorry about that as I said the times are a little out but the most important is the vertical meters and kms I think as it was the same trail up and down
@@SamsBikes Thanks Sam. Please look at my first message that deals with vertical meters and kms problem with data related to Rocky Mt. and Strive ON w/Bosch data.
Respect for your work and effort to present us the option in the market.
Keep up the good stuff.
I wish you well.
Nice job as usual
Thanks 🙏 legend
What an epic video! That kind of test is what we are looking for, real life test, with accurate data. Great video again. Looking forward to see next episode!!
Thanks 🙏 Rider glad you liked it
But the battery’s are different sizes
@@DavidYetman-or4un Did you see the video?! or the just first 5 seconds?
I'm at that age where I sometimes wonder, "did I say this, or just think it real hard?"! You are the "Cal Worthington" of ebikes. That's a compliment. Knowledgeable and enthusiastic.
Hahahaha thanks rider I just google Cal sounded like a legend so I’ll take that thanks, yep only the only crazy one that does things like this so you riders don’t have to
Bravo Sam! Good applied field test and controls! Also, as a Bafanger, thanks for including rhe M510...👊
No problem 👍 it did so well I was very impressed
+1 for the bafang system. I’d love to see more videos specifically on bafang motors
Really good data. In mainly eco mode I rode my new Turbo Levo Comp Alloy Gen 3 over four rides totaling 66km, 1,003M ascent and used 61% battery. I'm really impressed with the range.
Thanks mate this video was a lot of work
Great work, nice to see the range in full power for all the motor and battery combos.
Thanks 👍
Lots of good work there sam , always had faith in the levo 🙂
Absolutely and thanks Phil I hope all is well mate
Wow... 😯 What a great job you've done. Thank you Sam. The power of that second extra coffee 😉
Thank you! 😃 it was a massive 10 days in the saddle
I think what you have done is a massive effort Sam. Great job.
It would be very difficult to generalise each motor and battery without looking at the bike as well i.e amount of travel etc as it would definitely affect the bike range as a whole!
I still think that buying an ebike is like buying a car and one has set their mind based on the motor and bike geo etc. This test does give an estimate of the bike's real world range and I think this will be an added info for the potential buyers. If one wants to have a BIG day out and doesn't want to get caught just bring an extra battery or range extenders .
Keep it up
Hey mate thanks for these words, so much work went into this and it’s exactly what you said I was trying to explain no range test will be perfect there are so many variables but this is more or less what you are going to get with one rider over all different motors and battery’s
My ride is a Focus Sam2 6.0 with the CX Race motor 750Wh battery and I was interested to see how it stacks up in this test. Like you said this is probably the only test on youtube comparing these motor/battery combo and I totally agree.
Unless it's done in a lab it is hard to control the variables! 2 thumbs up from me again for your effort Sam.
Great work Sam! 😊
Thanks mate
It’s got to the point where most motor/battery systems will cover way more than the average rider needs on a typical mixed terrain long distance outing. There will always be exceptions but I’m more than happy with what my Comp Alloy Levo has to offer - well, for the foreseeable future 😎
Thanks Steve massive 10 days but really interesting 🤔 yep I don’t need more than a 700wh in my Levo
I've only run out of battery once on my Turbo Levo Comp Alloy. It was ~95% the way through a 25mi / 5,000 ft elevation ride.
So much fun to watch, thx for the effort. Just sold my 4y old Merida eone sixty with an 504Wh battery, not enough anymore.
Now this helps!
But i hardly used the highest support mode (Turbo on Shimano) because it’s just too much.
Thanks 🙏 rider oh the e160 a classic ebike but yes the 504wh is a little small these days
Crazy test and a lot of effort, but I am a litle bit confused about the results or maybe the method of the test and calculations.
According the test the Brose by Specialized is the most eficient: but this bike was the slowest one over 3h09min ride time to the 1607m.
Giant was "not that great" however it was a half an hour quicker (2h36min to the 1533m) and the Shimano was the fastest motor 2h27min ridetime for the 1753m ride.
It means to me that the assistance levels are not the same with the turbo settings and the weakest motor (in the sprints) helped the most to the rider and privided the rider in the shortest time to the most elevastion.
This shows great the difference between short term and long term power of the bikes.
It is also remakable how different was the result of the Brose by Sram then Brose by Specialized. It shows that the software tune how much difference mean...
Yep as I said, the times were all out for a few reason, one I was doing some filming in the mountains 🏔️ on a few of the bikes and also on a few days people stopped me and wanted to chat the important number is the vertical and KMs sorry about this but it was a really hard test and tried to do it the best I could
It is a completely bogus test. Full of excuses. U don’t stop and chat when u r running a test. Clearly he didn’t use the same assistance levels.
Sorry you feel that way I’ll go and do test again
Great video and loving the channel 👍
I've just bought 4x Schwalbe Tacky Chan's for our eBikes (Trek Rail's) - thanks to your recommendation and sponsorship.
Hey Peter thanks for the kind works let me know how you get on with the Tacky Chans, ultra soft super DH Casing I run 24 psi and soft super gravity casing 28psi on the back with 85kg is my go to more weight add some psi
Thanks for the test, great job! I was amazed by the Rocky Mountain engine, it is the most powerful of all 108 hm but at the same time it gives an excellent climb, considering that the battery is not the largest in the test!
Hey Rider yes I was very impressed with the range on the Rocky
Fair play Sam. That was an epic undertaking, AND with Manflu 😂😂
I’ve got the Levo Pro so know how good the range is. 👍👍
Thanks Paul, yep it was a crazy 🤪 10 days but super interesting, yep I’m very happy with the range on my Levo
cool deductions on power outputs just one thing would the weights of the bikes change anything on the outcome of the final results ?
I don’t think it would change it much
What about adding the avg km/h you made as well?
Important because some bikes had less ride time but longer distance and greater elevation gains...which would suggest the assist factor of each motor.
Good point I’ll do that next time
Rad video as always - you should do a series where you ride all your bikes at the same time.
Hahaha yep I’ll do that
Not sure he can fit them between the legs, that's a lot of bikes
Hi Sam,
Nice work!!
Your result surprises me on some part, i was especting the rocky to be slower at equal heartrate, because it duplicate your power less, thus increasing the range.
With the data you already have, consider adding the time to your result. Meaning, if two motor give similar range, but the second take more time to accomplish it, it means that you as the rider , put the same power but for longer, meaning that the efficiency of the second motor has to be less than the first motor.
Hey mate thanks for the comment and I hear what you’re saying next time I need to pick an area that people don’t know me! I picked the most popular route in Madrid to do this mainly because I could roll back to the campervan so the times are way out because of me talking to rider
@@SamsBikes ok good to know, i was about to do the analysis on my own with your data, but i understand it wont be accurate.
Btw i’ve got a Norco Range VLT with the ep8 and 900wh battery, and it seems to be about the same range (at equal rider weight) than the bosch with 750wh.
Also, i recently change my 165mm crank for 150mm. It seems to me that it is a lot more easy to get to higher RPM and the motor seems to like it. Power wise , it feels like the motor is more in it’s powerband than before, but i’m curious to see if it will be more in it’s efficient powerband. Our bike season start in a few weeks, i’ll keep you updated if your are interested.
Hi Sam, I cant wait to see this test with the Amflow Dji Bike 😅♥️💪🏻👍🏼
Great work Sam !
Thanks mate! Loads of geeky work but super interesting
What an impressive effort mate!!! But worth it for sure... Pretty similar numbers mostly, but curious the difference between the Sram Brose and the Specialized Brose. I think the software has a lot there, they've been fine tunning the package quite a lot of years now.
Thanks bro, yep very interesting the SRAM and Specialized I feel it’s quality of the battery and software
another brilliant video ❤ congrats keep up!! after changing to shorter cranks on your reign e+ do you feel like you lost a bit of the motor power? kept the same chainring?
Great video Sam, really enjoyed that thanks.
Now can you redo it all in Eco please and let us know how you survived? 😊
Hahahahaha my body is a mess
Interesting to compare the SyncDrive results on the Reign vs your test on the Trance 2 years ago where the SyncDrive did well. The Reign is a beast of a bike.
Cheers Sam great video
Thanks mate
good video!
I think the most important thing in this case would have been to normalize the rider's power with pedals and use the normalized power, rather than the heart rate since it can suffer a lot of variability due to different things. May be another time.
Just today I did a 1900m climb in eco and a bit of trail riding on my turbo levo, friends with Bosch and different battery sizes. We reached 2600 meters above sea level and I had 35% of the battery left.
Thanks 🙏
Which bikes are equiped with the bosch range extender? Thanks for the video.
Im actually not sure 🤔 you will need to ask the brands
great test and relevent to all emtb riders. my pwx3 and 720 battery fits nicely in the ranges you quote so im happy. thanks Sam.
Hey Kevin thanks for the comment and I’m happy you’re getting similar range we must have a similar fitness!
I think it would have been interesting to see the average speed as a point to compare also. If a system can boost along at a higher average speed in turbo then it’s likely to get through its power quicker. On my Bosch setup I ride mostly in emtb mode rather than turbo, not because I want to save power but I find it more natural and easier to control.
Thanks for the comment as I said the times are out because I was filming and talking to rides in the mountains
@@SamsBikes I totally get it and really appreciate the huge effort you've committed to bring us this content. Thanks and great work with the channel and this series. Is motor derestricting a subject you dont really want to discuss? Seems a like a massive elephant in the room with every emtb review ever. My riding buddies (about 10-12 of us) would never consider a bike if it couldn't be derestricted. My mate sold his Pole Vioma because it was too hard to derestrict. Would be valuable to add something about this when reviewing the motor systems. On my Gen 4 Rail I'm using the NSL Speedi derestrict and loving it.
That's a BIG work. Interesting
Thanks 🙏 Rider yes 🙌 my legs are not so great now
By the way.... Since I'm following you I am using magic Mary front and eddy current rear. Best tyres ever.
Thank you a lot
Rider thanks 🙏 so much for the comment yes mate amazing tires
This was a great test! It would have been really interesting to see the rider power stats though. I know you tried to maintain a consistent HR but its hard to tell how many WH you contributed. The comparison i want to look at is the ep801 vs the specialized. The ep801 did 1700m 40min faster than the Levo did 1600. That means the 801 was pulling an average of 360w to the levos 230. who knows if those numbers were impacted by cheeky chats though 😄.
Great comprehensive test. Quite the workout.
Looking at ave speed, Specialized was the slowest under 11 km/hr , with the rest in 13-14 km/hr , shimano at 16. Why Specialized so slow, over half hour longer against similar distances?
As I said the times were off, I know a lot or people in the mountains and I really have to stop and talk so some of the times are off
great video, thanks! I just wonder why there is such a big difference between the SRAM Powertrain and the Levo. In the end, they use the same Brose motor
Thanks for making this video. Very useful! I might have missed it, but what's your weight in kg?
Thanks 🙏 85kg
Hey Sam, what firmware are you riding on the M510? And is it the FC2.0 revision?
Not sure mate it’s just want came on the bike
Strange that the Spec Levo and Sram differ in range. They are using the same brose motor with maybe just different tunning?
Yes very strange I think it’s the software or the quality of the battery’s or both
Mate i dont know what it is but im always watching your videos!! No ebike yet 😅
Legend! Thanks 🙏 what are you waiting for
when it comes to the efficiency of the drive unit (elevation meter per one Wh):
spec -2,29 m/1Wh
rocky -2,26 m/1Wh
bosh -2,18 m/1Wh
bafang -2,06 m/1Wh
shimano -1,95 m/1Wh
syncdrive -1,91 m/1Wh
sram -1,87 m/1Wh
Thanks Rider I was going to break it down like this but felt putting it the standard or most common size battery was easier to understand for the average rider
Sam,
Brilliant test.
I would love to see any of the commenters do any better
Thank you! 🙏 it was soooo much work
Great video!!!!!
very god video! What is your weight?
83kg good day 90kg after Christmas haha
geesh ,that sounds exhausting ! the winner is interesting . i wonder if the belt system has any influence on efficiency ?
Hey mate yes it was a crazy test and I won’t be repeating, next time I’ll get a stunt rider! I think it comes down to the software and quality of battery cells more than belt,l seeing the SRAM and Specialized use the same motor
it's amazing you were able to complete the test while being .
BRAVO ! well done .
i think also the voltage of the battery might have something to do with efficiency ? i heard a 48 volt system is more efficient ?
yeah , have a youngish rider do it the next time . just have a large supply of espresso on hand .
oops ,insert the word 'sick' where appropriate . man i need to edit better . yikes
Nice testing standards. Now time to do the mid-level powered e-bikes...LOL
Yea maybe next year haha I’m smoked
Did you acount the extra weight when calculating every battery into 750wh?
Sorry I didn’t
@@SamsBikes Might have altered results,but not by much thanks for all your content.
Very impressive test! 😮 and i can confirm, shimano is always the worse about the range, and specialized always the best, i can say the bosch cx (not the race version) will perform exactly the same as specialized...
Thanks rider
The problem with Powerplay is that it gives according to rider input. So it technically has the most range. But when it is pushed hard it is going to have the least range. At least you have the most power for it. But the problem is the power is slow to come not instant like Bosch. So you are really losing a lot of power to not accelerating early.
Was Bosch in race or turbo?
Race
@@SamsBikes wow I have that motor in my Crestline. I hardly ever leave it in race cause I can almost feel the battery draw. It must be really good in turbo. I thought it would have easily out climbed the other motors due to the power.
@garyfuller6553 yes I was very impressed and as I said the normal Bosch motor would of done even better
Math doesn’t math, lighter battery = lighter weight = more distance. 4-5lbs difference between 720-900wh motor
I was gonna point that out as well, missing weight of each ride. 25kg vs 21kg will have an impact. (Or 47lbs to 55lbs) 🎂
Sounds like we need to ride Spain my man
Do it
@@SamsBikes I am serious, been looking at coming to Spain to ride and where I will source ebikes especially in Basque and Malaga areas. I ride a Rise, and want a Wild, but neither of those bikes can travel so I may have to get a Propain Ekano 2 CF since the battery can be removed. Not sure I am sold on a Relay yet.
You should test a USA bosch cx bike with them I bet it smokes them all
My only problem with the test is that with the massive range of battery sizes, the motor/battery weight difference is a factor. When you do math to pretend they all have a 750wh battery, then of course the Specialized will win.
I realize there is no perfect test, but if you are going to call it the range monster test, the only results that matter is the one with the overall longest range.
I think you added the 750wh results because it had a major impact on Specialized result and you are most definitely a fan boy
Hey Eric thanks for the comment, I only used 750wh battery because it seems the most normal size these days. If you did the maths at 700 or 800 they would be the same in terms of percentage of performance.
The Race version of the Bosch CX motor, does 20% worse than the standard motor. Know from experience. The standard CX would have beaten everything else.
In race mode or is it even worse in turbo
Wow 😮 thanks for the comment I thought it would be better
@@garyfuller6553 Both would do the same distance in Turbo, because both motors are the same except the added Race mode above Turbo in the CX Race.
THX!
Not a problem rider
@@SamsBikes Get well soon, Sam!
You should have made all bikes the same weight by adding weight to all bikes to match the heaviest bike.
As all bikes had different size batteries (different weight to carry) the bikes with the smallest batteries had an advantage when calculating them all to 750 wh. Likewise the bikes with the biggest batteries had a disadvantage.
No ways I’m getting anything near that range and vertical with my levo. And I’m 8 kilos lighter.
Unless you climbing up a smooth fire road all day.
But still enjoyed the video 👍
I was impressed with all systems after doing similar tests in the last 3 years, I think all systems did really well but I put it down to the tires! The tacky Chan rolls so well similar grip to Magic Mary buy was better rolling
A range test is not at full power. A range test is a test of how absolutely far an ebike can go. That means in eco!
Haha ok I’ll let you do that one!
@@SamsBikes Just sayin. I wish you guys would do an absolute range test. I'm a big mountain rider (E-splorer) and knowing how far I can go is critical.
@@jbdbsb yep I get you but it’s rider and machine so it really does come down to how much you have in the tank you can put eco really low and go for 3000 meter if your fit
@@SamsBikes I've done several 80+k with well over 3k in elevation gain.
now you have that data try the pinion mgu
Done it the range was very good 👍 but didn’t include on this test because I did it last year in my test, ruclips.net/video/0i5AsEzsP6Y/видео.htmlsi=RW9BXHcKYxnrfEyR
For me Shimano is winner because you solve 37,78km in just 2:27, and with Levo 33,85 km in 3:09h… Men, what a diffrenece… Even HR is lover..
In that perspective the Shimano is strongest!?
#I Know what the best ebike motor is the bosch cx performance line.
Batteries vs battery's (title)
Thanks 🙏
without looking, I reckon its going to be a specialised
Smart man
yamaha is the best ebike motor, not the giant ones as they use fkn can bus but the og motors were made to be serviced all all parts can be bought even the controller just not the bms, and my bosch gen 2 cx motor is now 11 years old and 39.6mph on the flat no road bike can beat me ever and my dongle cut off limit is 134.6mph
Completely flawed “test”. Normalizing for heart rate? U kidding? U should put all bikes at max power mode and ride at same SPEED(km/hr). Your test is completely bogus.. perhaps on purpose (sponsor?). Each bike has numerous assist levels that don’t equate across the bikes so u need to test at max assist level. Then normalize for avg speed. All these motors feel mostly the same at max assist. So u really should ensure u r riding each bike at same avg speed first and foremost. There can be a sig diff in speed with minimal heart rate variation. This is a large margin of error and can explain the range deltas.
Can’t keep everyone happy, it’s a real world test and 125bpm is what the average rider does ie me and that’s the best way I saw to do it! If you would like to do it better give it a go and send me the link
@@SamsBikes Hi Sam, it is not about keeping everyone happy. It is a matter of raw logic. It’s simply a flawed test. Not trying to give u a hard time.
Your margin of error here is in hundreds of meters mate. Period.
I’ve seen a few other range tests and they r even worse than yours. They flip flop between assists levels on each bike. Which means there is no control over the amount of work done by each bike what so ever. At this point, I can’t help but feel most of this is on purpose.
OK, so the way I see it each rider has a different fitness level and if we’re looking at Motor and rider combined, so we need to set an effort level of the rider which was 125 bpm in my mind it doesn’t matter how fast each system is it matters how much vertical meters climbed per system With the average input of the rider the same! As I said want to give it a go I’ll lend you all the bikes and have a crack
@@SamsBikes I’m in Canada. That is a nice offer though.
2 issues.
First, each rider has a diff cardio fitness level. So at same heart rate they can put in significantly diff muscle energy. When I look at my cardio fitness level and some of my colleagues, there is a universe in between. This is a massive factor.
Second, in any cardio task, there is a significant work margin before my heart rate changes. I need to push quite a bit more for my HR to increase.
When u add these 2 factors together, u have a margin of error that will be hundreds of meters.
All bikes need to be at max assist level, same track, same conditions, same rider, same avg speed. Not all bikes need to be tested same day… If flat, I’d say same gear as well… but that is not needed for mountain if avg speed is same.
The assistance provided by motor is based on assist level asked for and bike speed.
I do appreciate your comments. I can’t help but feel that since there isn’t a single properly done range test on YT, it can’t be an accident. Based on your engagement here I feel that in your case it is just an honest test design issue.
@xyz1663 basing it on heart rate seems pretty reasonable to me. It would be impossible to base it on speed on a real world single track climb which required gear changes and slowing for corners etc. And if it was a straight constant gradient then the less powerful motors would assumably use more power just to maintain the same speed as the bigger ones.
@SamsBikes.. Legend. @xyz1663 ..Not legend "i'm in Canada" That statement didn't help his argument or credibility 😂
Looking forward to the next episodes Legend!
Hahaha thanks 🙏 Legend rider