First Attempt Machining Copper - Making Copper Soft Jaws - C110
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 фев 2021
- Today we're making a set of copper soft jaws for the 6-1/2" Wilton
Tradesman bench vise. This is something I've always wanted to attempt,
but never had a good excuse. I found a nice C110 copper drop on eBay and
today we're going to give it a shot.
Tools used in this video:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
Kurt DX6 6" Mill Vise (Amazon*): amzn.to/3nntHuh
Mill Vise Speed Handle (Amazon*): amzn.to/3u4DsSa
Wilton 6-1/2" Tradesman Vise (Amazon*): amzn.to/33fqPXz
Starrett 827A Edge Finder (Amazon*): amzn.to/38DGNPp
YG-1 1/4" 120 degree spotting drill (eBay*): ebay.to/2MayWfj
Noga Deburring Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/2xMfiPz
Chicago Latrobe HSS Short Letter Drill Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/2PWx0dL
Chicago Latrobe HSS Short Number Drill Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/2Qgss0S
Allen Metric Metric Hex Key Set (*Amazon): amzn.to/2BVUYNw
Allen SAE Hex Key Set (*Amazon): amzn.to/2BsnIfP
3/4" Indexable End Mill APKT11T308 (eBay*): ebay.to/3bHHc3A
Indexable End Mill Set APKT11T308 (eBay*): ebay.to/3dRUA80
Starrett Intenss Pro-Die Band Saw Blade (Amazon*): amzn.to/3cIVAKM
1/4 x 6" Parallel Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3swn5Mj
Shars 0-6" .0001" micrometer set (eBay*): ebay.to/3sxGRqK
Aventor 8" DPS IP54 Caliper (eBay*): ebay.to/37y1Tg3
Starrett 6" Hook Rule Machinist Scale (Amazon*): amzn.to/37RUxVS
Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Thanks for the video. I learn a lot here....
Mostly I learn that machining and fabrication as a hobby will keep you busy even if you never produce an item for use outside the shop. It seems there are an infinite number modification/improvements that can be made to any and all machines in the shop. :-)
Man, you machined your copper soft jaws and didn't even blow up your mill. Quinn is gonna be so jealous. 😂
I dropped her a line before I started and got some tips based on her experience. I had forgotten that was the project where she lost the motor.
I fondly recalled AvE’s learning curve CNCing copper, too. It’s all good and adds to the common knowledgebase (and entertainment!). And copper is sooo pretty! Nice video, thanks!
Bwahaha, I had to pause the video after you told us the reason why you decided on copper instead of aluminum/aluminium, 'cause I was laughing so hard. XD
Excellent presentation, clear - concise description of the job. Neat shop !!
As always very informative. I learn a lot from you. Thank you.
Those look right nice. The only additional thing I would have done was mill a 3/16" wide 45 degree V horizontally in at least one jaw, and a 1/4" wide vertical V in one or both jaws, offset to one end so you still have flat in the center. That can make it a LOT easier to hold round stock for sawing or filing.
Very nice as always! I learn a lot from your videos..
I just refer to it Al or as element 13. My dad was a metallurgical engineer at Kaiser Aluminum for 40 years. Apparently as a child I called it aluminumnum as an alternate correct pronunciation.
Another video well crafted....thanks for sharing.
Oh Yes "Nice" is the word. But then why we would not expect this from "our" Mr James. One of the very best. Thanks kind Sir.
I love your videos. But your video editing colors are calming my mood. It's a great therapy. I like your style :-) Regards from Florence
Really nice soft jaws. Thanks for the video.
Awesome James!
Glad I found your video, as I am preparing to make soft jaws for my Wilton vise too.
I was trained as a jig and tool maker back in the late 50s. The first thing I was taught was to surface grind the serrations of the jaws on my bench vice.
Over the years I have done this to every bench vice I have owned and never used soft jaws. Keep in mind soft jaws are not fitted to machine vices. I will leave it to you all to determine the reason!😉
10:06 "But I think they've at least got a chance, on this aluminum."
*COPPER*
@26:24 Figured out how to pronounce it eventually.
It's aluminium... Copper!
@@MaximilianonMars haha, yeah. Sorry James, I hope I’m laughing with you and not at you (that is, I hope you’re laughing, too... either because you actually made the 10:08 slip on purpose, or because you know it’s just a thing we humans do, and don’t feel self-critical about it) when I say I guess the problem you mentioned at 2:53 is still an issue. 😂
Yeah. Lovely result.
I love how your mill has a perfectly designed WD40 pocket at the end of the table! Very thoughtful of them. My Bridgeport currently just has 'gunk pockets' (i.e. the previous owner's foul coolant mix!) :$
You need to move to Canada where there are many folks who pronounce the soft white metal as "that processed bauxite stuff". It is never controversial pronounciation.
I've never heard Zinc called that before.
But if you have a friend named Dewclaw, you are legally required to call it "Aluminimum".
I machine copper all the time on the job. There is nothing hard about copper.
Sharp tools and coolant (flood) or plenty of WD-40 if you are running dry.
With a .5 endmill I would go at 800-1000 rpm and 8-10 ipm.
.003 chip per tooth works really well.
Try diesel fuel instead of wd-40 you will be suprised.
@@zumbazumba1 Really? huh, may have to try that sometime.
NICE WORK.
Avoiding the inevitable aluminium argument. Copper it is :thumbsup:
Except... 10:08. D’oh! 🤣
Great video!
Nice work James...
man, that is fancy. I don't think my shop can take that much bling. I would love it though lol.
Outstanding!👍👍👍
Thank you. You keep knocking items off my list...... while it appears I just keep staring at my list. I need to get busy 🤪🤪. Thanks for the inspiration.
Nice job. Good info.
Learning.. never machined copper. I have hot worked it, soldered it and forged it. It’s a beautiful material to work with all those
great video! thanks james.
Nice job!
Nice work
Really nice work! Wish I had the machinery to make them for my vice. I'll just have to be jealous.
I have a vise that has passed down thru the generations and quite frankly the jaws are toast, was going to see if i could find some that were close and massage them into working but after this video i do believe that i too will look at making a set of jaws from copper. as always thanks for the ideas and instructions.
Beautiful looking.
You know what would be a cool next video, making an adjustable guide for the bandsaw!
There are a lot of things i'd like to improve on that machine. The "table" has a miter slot, but you'll note that I had to push the material at an angle to the slot to cut straight. Yet the saw cuts straight in the horizontal position, so...not sure I can do much to make that better.
Nice job mate.
Now you just need some jaws made from Delrin. Round out the collection ya know. ;)
I thought the same thing. Better than copper. Plus make thick ones with a V Grove.
@@assassinlexx1993 And put some button magnets in the back so they don't fall out the vice if you want a quick use and use the existing fitted steel ones.
Thank you! You helped me identify those inserts!!!!!!! I have two of those insert end mills I bought from eBay and I could not figure out what the inserts were.
nice work
Nice! And you didn't even have to replace the motor on your mill when you got done.
WRT denting: get some plastic (Acetal (aka Delrin) machines well) and some loose birdshot. Make a shot-filled drift (thick delrin ends, cavity for the shot, screw 2 parts together). Won't mar things like copper, but dense enough to work well. And it won't bounce. Basically a DIY version of a deadblow hammer, but smaller and with no shaft.
Yeah, the copper is a great choice for steel. Not the best for copper.
I go to scrap yards find old crappy rusted Wilton's and Parker's and hobbies vises bring them home fix them shine just like new and don't cost me a dime!!
Nice A1!
My local junk yard had copper drops for $1 a lb! I bought them out :) Flat bar, round bar, square bar, sheet, plate, all $1/lb. I’ll probably never see a deal on copper like that again, but I bought enough of it that I’ll probably never need to buy it again. Moral is, check your local scrap/junk yard!
That's an awesome deal.
Beyond WOW - I "consult" in the metal recycling business and we pay more that that for insulated wire. In any event, your point is spot-on - yes, check your local recycle center, often exceptional deals can be found.
Um, where PRECISELY do you store that hoard?
Just curious, no particular reason.
@@firstmkb In my shop, on the copper shelf. More precisely it’s 3 shelves above the steel shelf, 2 shelves above the aluminum shelf, 1 shelf below the brass shelf, and adjacent to the precious metal/engraving supplies drawer. If that’s not precise enough, then it’s 19’ 7.375” away from the milling machine, 8’ .125” from the lathe, and immediately adjacent to the engraving bench. 😁
Thanks for the video!! Was curious to see how you delt with Copper..!!!👆😅🤘
I just finished a custom job drilling for 4-40's screws and was a little tricky to say the least. Hahah but hey!! Got her done!!!👌
Looks too nice to actually use!
You're not wrong, this is how I buy chunks of stainless, brass and aluminum for my one offs.
nice looking jaws
Nice job! Try NikxStikx on your bandsaw blade. Its literally like cutting butter with a hot knife.
THESE SHINNY, CLEAN, PRISTINE COPPER JAWS WILL BECOME MORE BEAUTIFUL WITH SCARES AND FLAWS AFTER YEARS OF USE.
Cut some strips out of a old leather belt . Works good for softening up a set of steel jaws. But those are beautiful. 😮
Nice video,you could also machine a v in one side of those, Vertical / Horizontal for clamping pipes/circular items,but if it clamps good like you showed ,prob not necessary.Thank you.
small piece of copper? I'm surprised you dont have a couple of security guards on hand ...
Its actually pronounced "Cuprum" from the Latin........Lmao =)
Prettiest vice jaws I’ve ever seen…
😁
Robert
Neat, thanks.
FWIW, I made a set of vise jaws out of mild steel years ago. They really don't mar things up, though I'm not sure how they compare to copper. Cheaper though. I run a file across them every now and then, but have never pulled them off for resurfacing-- and I'm fairly neurotic about this sort of stuff.
After following your channel from the beginning- I have no doubt you're already considering the power drawbar mod for your mill. But in the mean time, might I suggest a "Nut Buddy" from good ol' Tubalcain? I made one and it works a treat. Carbide end mill will drill right through a wrench for the mount hole.
If using insert tooling on soft,gummy materials like copper I always use the GT/AK type inserts that are razor sharp and predominantly intended for aluminium and plastics. A GT type insert in a flycutter tool faces copper really nicely. WD 40 or similar for cutting lube.
I have some polished APKT11T304-LH YD101 inserts for these end mills ordered, but like many things right now, they're stuck in the mail. I do have a superfly with a polished insert. That would also have been a good option.
I expected more troubles after my experience with copper in my CNC router (two end-mills are in machine heaven) :)
And here I thought you didn't have tap the stock down on a Kurt vise. Glad I haven't wasted the money to buy one.
Very nice. Expensive piece of metal, but cheaper than it might have been. And thanks for drilling 4 holes and not showing the loving deburr with the Noga tool - I understand a man's gotta live, but it can get a bit repetitive.
Copper work hardens so be prepared to anneal them occasionally.
That's right, I think aluminum is the far better choice.
I bought a length of copper stock 1/2" x 3/4" for jaws for my 3-1/2" Starrett bench vise at a local metal recycling yard 3 miles away for apx $15/lb. On my first attempt I too managed to make jaws, held by recessed steel screws like you but with the recess threaded to accept threaded copper plugs I also made, so the entire face of each jaw is copper (except for the drive slot in the plugs). Drill press on the lowest speed made the holes, but the rest was all hand work. You could turn plugs from the round stock you used to hammer your jaw stock. As you said: "It's just a bench vise."
This drop was 11.5lbs, so it works out to between $7 and $8/lb, which seemed like a good deal to me. In retrospect, slower works better when things get gnarly. I had the 100sfm for HSS and 200sfm for carbide from Machinery's Handbook in my head and it didn't occur to me to try slower until later in the project.
Have a look at Robin Renzetti's differential screw vise jaws. Gives you the most jaw face without resorting to back mounting. ruclips.net/video/4k261VAbWCU/видео.html
@@RambozoClown Some UK vises were made with bolts inserted from the outsides into tapped jaws. They have the virtue of being easy to remove (exposed bolt heads, not prone to damage)
Isn't it nice having a heavy, rigid mill so you can climb cut most of the time?
Saw that. But don't think it matters here.
@@mydraftable6526 I'm not sure, but maybe we're not on the same page. My comment was not meant as a criticism in any way. There are numerous advantages to climb cutting and I prefer it to conventional cutting, as long as the setup is safe for it and the machine and tool can handle it. Hence my comment. (Maybe climb cutting gets a bad rep from the woodworking world, where it's usually unsafe.)
V-Grooves!
Pretty
Howdy James, I’m just going through some of your incredible back catalogue. And I was curious if you still use WD40 as a cutting lubricant? I’ve heard that it isn’t ideal but as a noob to milling/ routing metal I have no idea what to believe.
Hi James,
If you need to put something magnetic in your copper jaws machine your counterbores to take four round magnets over the mounting screws. That way your magnetic soft jaws will latch onto the magnets and you won't have to remove or change your copper for steel jaws. Otherwise a good video. Thanks.
Oh, interesting idea. Next time I grab the bending jaws I'll look to see if it would be practical.
Machining copper can be very dangerous you have to change the clearance angles on your tools along with the rake angles.
My dad had a project for me to machine some parts out of copper and he was sitting back watching center drilled my holes and I put a drill in the Chuck so I began to drill the hole all of a sudden the handle of the machine was ripped out of my hand the part was ripped out of the vice the drill was split up the middle and my dad fell on the floor laughing he knew exactly what was about to happen then he proceeded to show me what had to change and what not to do.
You must reduce the right angles and almost take the clearance angle to 0°
That poor little CNC hasn't seen love in a while. Just sitting in the back with a brand new spindle looking all lonely.
You should put a channel on the top 3 mm deep 4 mm back so you can hold flat plate and don't need to clamp it so hard
real purrty
Looks great... the alignment won't make a shite of difference once you'll run a file or saw over them or hit them with a hammer a few times ...lol.
cool
I think I would have gone for 7075 aluminium alloy instead. Or AMPCO/AMPCOLOY. But I guess it all comes down to supply and demand...
I am surely wrong but in my mind copper just have a to soft "ring/feel" to it 🤭😜.
Next time you need a quick soft jaw grip. Cut a couple of pieces of Aluminium angle 6 or 7 inches long and use those between the steel jaws and your part or bend up a couple of pieces of Copper sheet if you really want to have copper against the part. Will save you having to keep swapping out the screws and jaws.
Not just a nice fit but great look
How about using ratcheting box wrench for tool locking bar
Me.pete222 has a great video on how to serrate vise jaws using the milling machine. I have done a practice serrating run myself.
While you are free to spend as much as you want, I think you could have chosen a lot cheaper way to get the same result. For instance, mild steel jaw inserts with a soft copper overlay. The soft copper starts about .060 and will last for years.
Solid copper is overkill without much advantage.
I agree that solid copper is overkill. My own thoughts went straight to the "metal that starts with al"
But your suggestion interests me - how would you fix the copper overlay in place?
use dark thick cutting oil for copper machining, works great
Diesel fuel for copper.
@@zumbazumba1 older sulphate type or the current sulphur free version?
@@CothranMike Sulphur is a good lubricant ,its a additive in many oils.
Honestly idk what type of diesel i used it was what was in the bottle next to a machine. We used that stuff for washing parts mostly.
But yea i guess you want a sulphur one.
Try it out see if it works.
Hello Clough, please post about your cnc!
What search terms are you using to find items like this?
Machining copper you use HSS cutters that are Flash Hard Chromed - Copper and Al dont stick to Hard Chrome
Very nice, James. Cu later
Should I keep my beryllium copper warnings to myself?
If I ever get some, I'll try not to breathe it.
copper isn't so difficult. Soapy water makes an excellent coolant, better than emulsions. Tap-Magic also works but if you're doing flood, that stuff is too $$$. As usual, speeds and tool geometry and choice of coolant all have to be righteous, and then copper machines like PVC. Better, the chips break more easily. ^_^
wouldn't conical countersunk bolts work better? they are self aligning and lock the jaw since theres no dowel and the head would be flat with a smaller hex drive for more meat and no inner mushrooming on the countersunk edge
That assumes the holes in the vise are drilled accurately. They might be. I don't know. I just replicated the geometry of the originals.
I see a future video making a “combination hammer” coming up soon. Or why not a pneumatic drawbar right a way...since we all know it’s were we end up. Finally. 🙄😅
Any reason your not milling both jaws at the same time ensuring both exact same ? I made some jaws out of hard maple for my vice and I intentionally made them a full 1" wider thicker and 1/4" taller they work ausome for holding on to anything I have used them for I made two pair at the time thinking il have a second set when needed . Not yet after a year still good
You mentioned putting the steel jaws back in when you do something magnetic, could you give me an example? I don't think I've ever used a magnet for anything on bench vise jaws
I think he mentioned he sometimes uses a pair of magnetic break jaws to bend sheet metal.
Yeah...magnetic bending brake jaws. These, in fact: amzn.to/3k78aUQ
nice job, why didn't you counter bore the jaws from two sides (with a smaller bore depth) to make it reversible smooth jaws so that when it get really danged up you just flip it and got yourself brand new surfaces.
The copper jaws are thicker than the originals, and I had to bore them deeper so I could use the same screws. Doing this from both sides would have left only .150" in the middle, and I thought it might be too thin for a soft material like copper--especially if I ever get to pounding on it.
@@Clough42 thanx for the clarification, as always
Hey James, this is off topic but I just got my Texas instruments launch pad and I already purchased all the pieces from you. Is there anything new that I need to know about to make the threading change on my grizzly? I just plan on following the videos and reading. Can't wait to get started!!!
I don't think so. The instructions on the GutHub site should be up to date. Use the latest firmware. I just added another safety check this week.
@@Clough42 Tally Ho!!!
Great job of the copper jaws. I like the milling machine may I ask you how much was it?
3.5k
Like cheap Chinese wire, you could have gone for copper plated aluminum, just to confuse everyone. I'm surprised you didn't use differential screw mounting.
‘Drops”, we also call them “small pieces”. The problem with buying metal from eBay, and I do buy a lot of it there, because I agree, buying metal from McMastercarr and be expensive, but, with McMastercarr, you know what you’re getting. I’ve found that the description of material on eBay can be, shall we say, optimistic, particularly from small sellers.
Copper is hard to work because it’s very “sticky” it will jam up the teeth of blades, and the flutes of mill bits. You need the right cooling fluid. They used to use milk in the old days. Of course, you can always look up the proper bits, speeds and feeds as well as the best lube in the Machinists Handbook. That’s what it’s for, and everyone doing any machining should have one. New ones are expensive, but in small shops, or home shops, old copies are perfectly fine. I’m surprised that’s not the very first thing he did, or looked it up online. There’s really no point to guessing.
A quarter inch is more than enough precision for the length of vise jaws. No reason to be so anal about some things.
Speeds, feeds and coolants can be looked up for sure, but this channel is as much the shared learning process as it is the final result, so I for one am grateful that "doing it wrong" is also included for the benefit of all.
James also never does "just good enough" ie quarter inch tolerance. He addresses this in a previous video as he tries to practice as tight tolerances as possible - required or not - for the times when they absolutely necessary. This is a home shop afterall, so the road is not necessarily well travelled.
I did in fact look it up in my 21st edition handbook. My starting speeds were exactly as recommended. There was, however, no specific advice as to the carbide insert tooling geometry I have on hand.
@@Clough42 Use neutral angle HSS blade like for bronze ,for coolant diesel fuel works like a charm.As for inserts probably the same as for bronze or aluminum.
I suppose he could've just used a hand drill and eyeballed it. There's really no need for calipers, micrometers, and DROs in the shop when you have the good ol' eye-crometer.
@@rgetso what I learned a long time ago is that you don’t do what you don’t have to do in machining. The wear on the machine, on the bits, the use of cooling solution, and the greater possibility of making a mistake, all increase. If you make a mistake, the you have to throw the part away, and do it all over again-without all the extra, unnecessary steps.
isn't C110 like a lot harder than C101, though copper is soft, so even being harder isn't an issue.
I have the same exact 6 1/2" Wilton vise. Is there a possibility of you making a copper soft jaws set for me?
Yeah! First comment!