Are All Guitar Amps Better Through EV Speakers? [Princeton, AC15, 50-watt Plexi, Matchless]
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- The fabled EVM12L with four classic guitar amps - heavenly or horrific?
Life too short for long RUclips videos? Please see the ‘Interesting bits and go-to sections’ information below.
Welcome to the show! Now there was a time when the Electro-Voice EVM12L speaker was the Undisputed King Of Drivers. Some argue that it still is, but for the most part the dear old EV has taken something of a popularity battering since its 1980s heyday.
Nevertheless, I’ve become marginally obsessed with chasing some Dumble-type tones of late - Mick here, hello - and that has led me down a path of acquiring an EV or three. I really //really// like ’em. And then, during a chance happening with Andy Timmons just recently, Dan and I were served up stark sonic reminder that these can be great on the end of all kinds of amps. Watch that show here • Andy Timmons Visits TP...
All of which got us to thinking… What about some amps that you wouldn’t normally associate with the hallowed 200-watt behemoth loudspeaker? Could it ever sound good with the Princeton or an AC15, for example? Let’s find out…
Enjoy the show!
Pedals & gear used in this video
• TheGigRig Three2One
www.thegigrig.com/three2one
• Sonic Research ST-200 Turbo Tuner
Australia: bit.ly/2mR1s8c
• Keeley D&M Drive
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3zaTX5Z
Australia: bit.ly/2pUDUAE
• Source Audio Collider Delay & Reverb
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3zaTX5Z
Australia: bit.ly/323SzgS
Interesting bits & go-to sections
0:00 What are we doing today?
1:57 The Andy Timmons EV incident
3:35 Today’s amps
4:18 Of course there are variables
5:12 Princeton Reverb into Jensen C10R
6:55 Princeton Reverb into EVM12L
9:12 AC15 into Celestion Greenback
11:22 AC15 into EVM12L
16:13 Marshall 1987x intro
17:05 Marshall into two Celestions
20:10 Marshall into two EVs
22:10 Marshall thoughts
23:38 Matchless into two Celestions
26:50 Matchless into two EVs
30:34 Matchless cleaner tones
34:00 Closing thoughts
Guitars in this episode:
• Gibson Custom True Historic ’57 Les Paul Goldtop, Murphy Aged - no video yet
• Fender Custom Shop ’63 Telecaster - Dan’s video here: • That Pedal Show - Our ...
Amps & cabs in this episode:
• Fender ’65 Princeton Reverb with Jensen C10R speaker
• Vox AC15C1 with Celestion G12M Greenback speaker
UK & Europe: bit.ly/36BSfrw
USA That Pedal Shop: bit.ly/3E0H1Qs
• Matchless C-30 head with Matchless ESD212, 1 x Celestion G12M Greenback & 1 x Celestion G12H Anniversary
• Marshall 1987x head
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3zaTX5Z
• 1980s Mesa 212 with 2 x EVM12L speakers
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Hey Mick & Dan, Ignazio here. Vintage EVM12L are in my personal top 3 favorite guitar speakers. A MESA/Boogie 1x12 Thiele Extension loaded with MY own 1980 EVM12L is a mainstay in Jensen's demo room. Since we obviously went a great deal looking into the build specifics that make that speaker so special, I thought of sharing a few notes from the R&D lab:
1) The EVM12L is NOT a guitar speaker. It was originally designed as a mid-woofer for PA/Sound Reinforcement applications. Proof of this is the surrounds that are made in treated cloth, while all guitar speakers have paper surrounds (or better, in a traditional guitar speaker the cone membrane extends to the edge of the speaker, and is bent/formed to become the suspension). Fortunately, some guys on the US west coast decided to give it a try, and did not care about the recommended application: the community should be grateful to people like Alex Dumble, Randall Smith and Paul Rivera for having paired Fender-style amps with the EVM12L.
2) The frequency response is, after all, not THAT different from a traditional guitar speaker. The difference is HOW the EVM12L responds to power. It is designed to be as clear and uncolored as possible. So, the membrane, voice coil, and spider, are designed to react "piston-like" with the minimum dynamic compression and distortion possible. The complete opposite of what a trad guitar speaker is designed to do, enriching and coloring the tone with harmonics and overtones even with a mere handful of watts.
3) every detail in the EVM12L is made to minimize distortion and coloration. Even the basket frame is die-cast aluminum, to avoid vibrations and resonances.
4) Super large voice coil (2,5"), about twice the size of a normal guitar speaker voice coil (from 1 1/2" to 2" max). Most Celestion speakers have 1 3/4" VCs.
5) HUGE ceramic magnet. 2 or 3 times bigger and heavier than the standard. The combination of the large voice coil and huge magnet make up for exceptional dynamics and nearly unlimited headroom.
So, do we like'em? Yes, we love'em, with certain amps, not all of them, and they need to be used in a certain way to get the most out of them.
We love them with F-style amps, from clean to medium gain tones. Since the speaker is SO clean, it loves a certain amount of amp compression and "hairy" overtones; if you pair it with a super squeaky clean amp, it might sound a bit too dry and sterile. Yes, they can be brutal and unforgiving if wrongly paired. Great in ported and open back cabs.
We like them less with British-style amps and power amps, especially with EL84-powered amps. We're still quite happy with fat, powerful EL34 amps, and closed-back large cabs.
Hope this may be of interest to the community... yes, I'm a bit of a speaker nerd, I do admit...
Can you comment on rated speaker power vs amp power? The Princeton sounded awesome but it’s not 200 watts and it still sounded cool. What’s happening?
@@brownmonkeybananayellow Most likely very low mechanical losses, achieved by vented spiders, vented pole pieces and most important non conducting voice coil formers. Another speaker nerd here;)
@@brownmonkeybananayellow great question. Here’s the deal: all these speakers have a pretty high efficiency/sensitivity, swinging from 95 up to 100dB with 1 watt of applied power. That’s a LOT. So even 10-15 watts from a Princeton are more than capable of being loud. I actually played for years with my 1965 Princeton AA764 with a C12N in the modded baffle, PLUS the ext cab with the EVM12L. No probs at all. The power rating of the speaker only indicates the max power they can take before burning out. Note that a guitar speaker is designed to break up even with a couple of watts. And the behavior won’t change too much until you’re really pushing the speaker to the point of blowing it. On the other hand, the EVM12L won’t break up at all, until you’re frying it. The increasing compression, overdrive, oomph, etc that you hear when you push the amp loud… it’s the amp, much more than the speaker :)
@@JensenSpeakersVideos oh man thank you!!! Need one.
@@zappel52 I will have to try one of these bad boys
What a great idea for a show - thanks for doing this!!!
Another amazing video guys, as always! Really liked the honesty of the EVs, but that Matchless cab man, what a sound!!!
Amazing chops!
Some of the best playing I have seen from you guys!
Love your tone on the Marshal, Dan.
I just realized how wonderful TPS has become over the years. I just listen without touching the volume bar no matter talk or play. Can't say that for many youtube videos! Also I'd love to hear speculation about the speaker power handling relation to anything. Like you originally got power handling to match the amps for them not to break (and they still withstand a lot more power than expected), but people figured out you don't need that amount of power to push the speaker to play well, that the same 100W speakers could play just nice with 20W amp, perhaps even better to your taste than some better matching ones.
EV and its copies are just very nice combined with a traditional speaker like Celestion V30/65/75/Greenback. I loved Johan Segeborns comparison on EV combinations, it just made everything better when mixed together.
Also I have a bad pun for you: what happens when you put a heavy magnet in Electro-Voice speaker? You get EVH.
My take on angled cabs: got one because they look cooler. Realized that I hate the sound of speaker directly into your ear, I would always stand on the side further away.
Hahahahah! Totally agree on the angled cabs thing. Can be BRUtal!
@@ThatPedalShow can you do a show on 'beam blockers' and shield-type devices? I recall a couple of years ago that there was a funky designed shield thing that helped ypu hear your amp clearly no matter where you stood...
@@alexlewis8468 I use tilt back legs and a beam blocker is a must. Found some adhesive backed neoprene, cut a disc about the size of a CD and stuck it on the inside of the grill cloth.
@@alexlewis8468 Weber Beam Blocker!
While I went to view this video to learn more about the speaker in question, during which time my questions were answered, I ended up truly enjoying both of you showing and sharing real joy and skills while playing guitar. The two of you are a great together and you both play so well and show such clear passion and knowledge about all things related to electic guitar and amps that just can't be faked. Thank you both and cheers all around 🎉
Thanks Paul 🤓🙏
Great video this week guys! Super interesting and to the point. Cheers!
Massive EV fan here, I’ve tried quite a few celestions and there’s just something in them that I don’t like and the EV fixes that. This show demonstrates that nearly symbiotic relationship between amp and speaker, some amps need a certain speaker colouration to sound their best, others are more of a blank canvas where the speaker is another tone shaper. In terms of the EV I think what goes in, comes out and if you don’t like what comes out then that’s the pure sound of the amp that you don’t like, don’t a big deal because as demonstrated, once you find the speaker that works with that amp you’re back in happy land. Other things to mention, the weight!! Every cab an EV goes in becomes heavy and then there’s the feel, because of their clarity and they can feel very honest and stiff, which also doesn’t suit all amps. Still it’s my favourite speaker, awesome round up guys, this is quite a specific rabbit hole but one I’m sure a lot of people have wondered about.
I had a 4x12 Avatar cab that I loaded with 4 EV12Ls and i'll never forget turning on a swollen pickle and the absolutely COLLOSAL bass. The sub-bass in my recording studio from the speakers was so intense that from 4-5 feet away you could feel your bones vibrating up all the way to your knees through the floating wood floorboards. Absolutely bonkers.
I heart this. Mick here. :0)
The 400 lb cabinet
No offense , but try a Bogner cab or something of similar quality.
I had an Avatar cab and it’s seriously dead compared to my two Bogner cabs.
Many a guitarist friends of whom one is professional agreed wholeheartedly that the avatar was dead compared.
Again don’t mean to offend you
Cheers.
@@xthexadvantagex Yes. It weighed as heavy as it sounded...and wasn't on casters! 😭
@@Nightjar726you must have had a bad one cause I’ve owned several Avatar Cabs and they are steller.
The Forte is a pure work of art and it sounds like it.
I really enjoyed the vid, thanks guys. When I saw the title I immediately thought of a picture of SRV's rig, he was in the studio running multiple amps through an enormous cab stuffed with 8 EV speakers.
Wow. It's cool to hear the EVs. I had forgotten that they even exist. They've always been the top end of speakers. This is an excellent demonstration and great guitar playing on both your parts. Very enjoyable and educational. You're a good team. Good food for thought... Thanks
I have a 79 Mesa with a evml15
Thanks guys, I love this type of shoot-out, I have done quite a bit of speaker swapping over the years, but not with the logic and evaluation and assessment that you did. I learned a lot today. My favorite swap with my gear was fitting a Celestion Gold alnico to my 65 DRRI.
Loved this Episode guys! Very Well Done!
“It’s not andertons” …….. love it !
Loving the great info without the 3rd grade vulgarity. 🤘
Very Interesting! Thank you for continuing to expand my knowledge and blow my mind. I agree with all of Dan's picks. Have a great weekend
Ah, great video. My favorite one so far. Well done!
Another great video, Dan and Mick!
Thanks Guys, that has answered many, many questions.... Many of which I'd never thought of asking and few would be within my scope of actioning.... But thanks... There was no question over the fascination!
After years of trying all kinds of pedals/amps/guitars... I have settled on a few gear philosophies that work for MY ears. #1 single coils #2 fender blackface smaller wattage circuit (15/22wts up to 35 depending application) #3 higher wattage speaker when matched to amp. Get the dirt from volume or pedals.
Yeah man! I got a Jensen alnico Blackbird 100watt for my Egnater Tweaker set to US voicing. That as my wet rig and then paired with a VOX AC15C1 for the dry rig. Home volume, of course, needs some love which comes from the Wampler Euphoria OD which then gets stacked into Pantheon and again if needed into the TC Zeus drive. Fender Vintera 50's Modified Tele and tone heavens here I come!
It’s interesting because this is a long path to arrive where most guitar players start with little to no experience. Strat > Pedals > Fender Blackface Amp > Speaker that can handle the peaks of the tube output.
Cant agree more!
@@CenterThePendulum as a huge Jimmy Page fan...I tried to love the Les Paul/Marshall thing... tried a VOX AC/30...Tweeds...etc.
Matchless!!!
Remarkable, this exact question has been on my mind for a week now. Thank you.
Good work, guys. I waited for 40 years for some one to speak of those. Many thanks from Italy. Gianni_ Circus 2000. Cheers
Always interesting. Thanks, guys!
This was a really fun comparison!!
Most excellent experimentation. I've always wanted to pick up a set of EVM12Ls.
A friend had a mid 50's Vibroluxe that he had shoehorned a 12" EV SRO into. It was an absolutely amazing sound.
A friend of mine did the same with a silverface Princeton. Amazing amp.
That was VERY interesting guys! Thanks
I’ve always loved EV loaded Boogies, and most of the time I’ve had them raised off the floor on an angled stand. They do have a lot of gravity packed into them though.
KILLER playing at 30:30 Daniel. Just phenomenal!! Really loved that
This is an excellent video. My takeaway was actually that Matchless makes can outstanding cab and that those speakers are incredibly well matched. That one moment that Dan was playing the Matchless cab with the Marshall head, I saw 114 dB. Unreal. The audio in the cans was STUNNING.
Excellent video, good job !!!
Thank you gentlemen, very interesting and god sounding episode. I would really like to hear an episode about old Boogie’s. Now you have the speakers the Mark-series was designed for, and we know that Mick knows his Boogies.🙂
First things first: You don't know me, but after watching you guys for years, it's almost like watching friends jamming.. Such a great show, and I hope you boys never quit!
2nd: First 2 amps, as you said, very easy.. Last 2, man that was much harder to choose!! Keep on rocking guys 😎 Cheers from Montreal
Excellent comparisons, and great job exploring the relationship between amp and speaker. I keep a 1x12 ported Mesa cab with a 12L, and it sounds perfect with a Boogie, but it’s not “right” for a lot of other amps.
I love the EV's, I have 2 cabs with them installed. They are much more efficient then Celestion Greenbacks which explains why they are louder with the same signal. They have a much more immediate response and very different feel for the player. Good video. Thanks.
I spend way too much time watching this channel. Thanks for the nice message on the page too Dan.
Good show, boys. Speakers are like guitars - it's hard to just have one! I built a couple of cabs to use with my amps. Nice pine boxes. One with a 12 inch alnico blue and one with the 10 inch alnico gold. I'm thinking about doing a cream back next. Rock on!
Hey Dan & Mick Here :) great show , thoroughly enjoyed it :) I'm still trying to figure out what amp to get .. 😂 but your show is helping me make a decision , by making me keep changing my mind , lol but I'm getting closer ..i think 🙃🤣 , appreciate your all your effort 😎 🎸
Dan's Matchless amp and cab are just special. When he plays that combo with his Tele he just comes alive.
Really interesting - not only for the sound demos but for your takes on the outcome. As with all things in music, it really comes down to how easily and rapidly you can identify and hone in on a sound that inspires and propels you to the outer regions of artistic expression. I've never played through an EVM 12L but do own an EVM 15L. It has radically less upper mids and presence than my go-to speakers Celestion Cream Alnico and JBL D130. But if you compensate for the EQ disparity, the 15L is really wonderful and has the most incredibly beautiful attack you can imagine.
Mick, your playing was on fire that day! 🔥
Thanks Sven! Same old blues conkers but we’ve learned to rub along together now. :0)
Hi Guys...This was a very good episode, I agree with Mr Dumble's perspective and its one that I've had for years. Ive been using EV 12L's for years and have preferred the tones etc that are projected from them, especially from a closed back cabinet, like a 4-12 Marshall cab, all speakers removed except 2-12L's in stereo, and other speaker holes blocked off = lots of bass and when turned up loud you get beautiful crunch. Used a Boogie 50/50 amp and boogie V-Twin pre....yumO !! delicious... Thanks for the great reviews.
Greetings from Canada. 🤘
You can say whatever you want, I just love Dan's Red Telecaster plugged into anything!
My favorite sounds were from the gold top into the Matchless with the greenbacks. Thanks for doing the comparisons!
Yes indeed
Thank you for the illuminating episode. I have never tried alternative cabinets or speakers with any of my amps, so this was a learning opportunity. For me, I liked the sound of the EV speakers with the first two amps, but less so with the latter amps, particularly the Marshall head. Personal opinion of course. Stay well friends
Thanks guys. Yes my Mesa 5/50plus has an EVM 12L. Works great. My Mesa DC3 has a Peavey black widow 12. Which is like an EVM 12l. And yes each amp has to be tuned to that speaker. I love both amps. But like everything in your signal chain ,,, it makes a difference. Strings , pickups , body wood , neck wood , tubes , speaker , on an on ,,, it all makes up your sound !!!!
Great show, Gentlemen! EV 12Ls used to rule, I remember Larry Carlton using them exclusively in his Dumbles when I first saw him in the early '80s.
Guys... Great content 👍
This is probably the most interesting episode so far.
EV's sound great, surely a high quality speaker. But courses for horses. High quality amps usually have high quality speakers and have done their R&D hence you can't mess with the Matchless.
Keep up with your tone quest ! Much love and appreciation 👍
I thought the Matchless sounded better with the EV, very noticeably better, couldn't say that about the Marshall.
Interesting experiment - thank you doing this D&M. I agree with Dan's likings. In particular, I far preferred the Les Paul through the Marshall with the Matchless Cab, but Mick preferred the EV's on that one. Wonderful that we all have our individual favourites!
So interesting. In my opinion, the EV’s sounded wonderful with every amp but the matchless. And, I expected the matchless to shine through them.
If you ever do more with this, I’d love to hear the two rock through the EV’s and compared to the stock two rock 2x12 vertical cab.
Thanks for another wonderful installment.
YES! A rematch w/Celestion in a vertical 2*12, please!
Funny they disagreed about the Matchless. I thought the EV sounded better in every amp except the Marshall. But it still sounded good.
Personal favourite combinations were:
Princeton with Jensen
(I like the way the bass falls over it’s quite musical to my ears)
AC15 with EV’s
(Just great tones)
1987X with Lester and EV’s or with Tele and Celestions
Matchless with Lester and Celestions or with Tele and EV’s
Another great show guys! Thanks for all your hard work!!
EVs are the best speaker companion I could ask for in my tone journey. Wherever I go, whatever I ask of it, and no matter what I put it through, my EVs handle it with integrity. Despite the EQ of the EV being relatively flat, I think of it as more complimentary to a variety of amps than others that impart more of their identity. If I don't like the sound I'm getting, I know it's because I'm hearing more of the amp or pedal, rather than the EV producing unpleasant or uncomplimentary sounds on its own. It helps me eliminate a variable because I know where I must make adjustments from. EVs won't work for everything, but they offer me a better perspective on what other pieces of my gear sound like and help make me a more informed tone chaser because of it.
My experience with the EVM12L is in my Mesa Boogie Mark III Purple Stripe and my Mark II C+, both with graphic EQ. Having graphic EQ in the amp or the effects loop I think is the key to making the EVM12L sound great with just about any amp. The Mesa Boogie Mark II and III amps and Dumble amps were designed with the EVM12L in mind. Blues and Classic Rock through EVM12L’s sounds amazing. Mick, if you can find one, buy a Mesa Boogie MS-12 Black Shadow Speaker with the Jouster on it, for the top half of your Boogie cabinet. The MS-12 was made by Eminence for Boogie as sort of lower cost 150 watt copy of the EVM12L. The MS-12 sounds a lot like a EVM12L but with a smoother treble response, many prefer it to the EVM12L. My Mark III has the MS-12 in the combo and an EVM12L in a Mesa Thiele cabinet. Together they sound huge and fuller than two EVM12L speakers.
I have the EV 12L's in a mesa 4x12 cab the best clean sound ever but they are heavy. I love this comparison because there was a real difference between the sounds but I guess more a personal preference for your taste would be the final choice, great video guys you should do more of these type video's!!!
I collected four EVM10M speakers for a 4X10, but now I am getting cold feet. Not really as strong as I used to be, and even if I use a little 1965-sized box it will be a bit of a lump. I guess that I have to try it out once. 🙉
Did I just see Mick play a Dan like jazz lick at 12:10 or so?! Love you guys!
Oh man I love the old EVM12L’s. I used to use only high powered tube amps with 12L’s, always trying to get the most clean headroom I could. Those speakers will quickly reveal the holes in your playing - very unforgiving yet make you a better, cleaner player. They’re painfully heavy. And will surely deafen your audience and infuriate your sound engineer in short order. But to feel the power that they put at your fingertips, the clean volume that you always wished you could get out of your amp suddenly there in spades…very addictive!
I see what you did here lol... You gentlemen really are the best tone detectives on the web. Bravo Sirs!!
I've had an EVM12L for many years. In and out of various cabs. It's not Love/Hate, more like Love/Meh. I recently paired it with another orphan - the Eminence Commonwealth 12, another huge magnet high power JBL-ish monster. Put them in a closed back Bluesbreaker-style cab built by Lopo - a now-defunct USA cab builder. I wanted a big stereo cab. Obviously, it can go extreme but doesn't have to - it can do clean with infinite headroom. It also sounds surprisingly good with distortion/overdrive. Big cab, big magnets, big sound.
Betterer... And Very much Louder! Because Louder is More Better right??? Cheers guys... love your work as always
Fascinating video, gents, and I was actually surprised by the correctness of my expectations! With those littler amps, an all-devouring speaker like an EV lets you hear parts of the amplifier circuit that just don't make it through the transformer-to-speaker conversion, but with a powerful amp designed for use with a cab, it's way too easy to spotlight parts of the tone that were *meant* to be drowned by a quad of Greenbacks or the G12M+G12H pairing. I thought the latter 2 amps both had an edge of unpleasant, thin treble, almost a piezo or DI sound, along with the bass boost. (Interesting as well how hearing more of the Marshall circuit and less of the whole 4x12 experience brought out the tweed Fender lineage too, I thought.)
Good one, can’t wait to get home and rewatch through the good speakers on the big tv. Greetings and salutations from Muscle Shoals Alabama hit recording capital of the world 🌍
Nice - the EV’s immediately “opened” the upper mids, which can be really nice, especially for cleans - but wow, if the amp is a little “pokey” to compensate for dark speakers, the EVs are BRUTAL. 😬
Thanks for the explorations! Cheers.
Well said
I bought an EV 12 L in 1976 and is still in my Mesa Boogie today. Nothing better. It will outlive you.
My favorite cab is a narrower 4-12 staggered speaker, Silvertone with bottom tapered in the back for it's two built-in grill style axle'd wheels. Leave the lower right speaker out and run two Celestion G12M 70's in the upper left and right, and an EVM12L in lower left. Sounds amazing and you'll love the ease of moving it. Nice handle on the upper back.
You guys, this is very interesting. I don’t have access to the real thing like you do, but in the modeling world I’ve found that my favorite speaker combo in my HX Stomp with almost every amp model is the Mesa Boogie mk IV 1x12 + Boogie mk IV extension cab with EVM12L. It seems to bring a balanced, neutral tone to each amp. I don’t yet know how it sits in a mix though, and I wonder if that’s where other speakers with more character shine.
Man, what a great episode!!!
You know when I bought my 67 Deluxe Reverb, my LA-based tech who looked it over recommended I look for an Altec 417-8H II as a possible replacement speaker, to spare my '66 Jensen the pounding.
Apparently, this was a big deal mod in the 70s-80s LA studio scene, long before boutique amps and speakers were more common. I believe this this was Carlos Santana's speaker of choice for his Deluxes, and I've also read that Mike Landau, Carlos Rios and Paul Jackson Jr. were using them too. I've been thinking about picking one up to have in the arsenal... I suspect it would perform similar to this EV that you guys were playing with.
I don't know if all guitar amps sound better through an EVM-12L, but I really love them. I have a pair of 80's Mesa Boogie Thiele 1x12 cabinets with EVM-12L.. They sound absolutely divine to me. They are great as a reference to how your amp sounds.. Some players don't like them, but I am not among them. I love my late 70's Hiwatt through an EVM-12L.
Killer demo.
I really liked what it did to the Princeton the most! Strong-boned. I now have a suspicion that a tweed deluxe reissue with an EV12 will probably get me pretty close to my ideal tone.
Superb video.
I have two EVM12L Classics. They are great!! They reproduce what the amp feeds it.
Great video!!!
You're right the small amps totally benefited from the EV's, although that's subjective as you say. For me the sound of the vid was the Marshall into the Matchless cab. Desert island tone (you know the one with the really good mains AC that all us guitarists speak of) that one 👌😁
I've been gigging a Rivera Knucklehead 55 through that same Mesa cab w/ EVM 12Ls for decades. That combo just works for me.
I think it was extremely interesting - and such a great way to do it: real world use and not too sterile or academic. I would like to be clever now, but basically just agree with everything you two said about this. Enjoyed the playing so much, too.
So I watch your show while making my Saturday morning breakfast and my 2 cents is I didn't turn my head once for the sound of EV's. All of the artefacts you didn't like from the other speakers made them more interesting to my ears 👍
I think it was a 2-2 draw, those EV's are special though, incredible sounding, fab episode and great playing by both of you 😄
Love speaker nerd videos!!! I have been down the rabbit hole with speakers and I could give you my personal takes and preferences for home use (Alnico) but we would be here all night. But for a live band, or “loud rock rig”there is something magical, about my current rig and speaker combination-
I have 2 -Quilter Tone Block 202s mounted on my pedal board as a stereo rig- out of the first amp I am running a closed back 15” Peavey Black Widow and an open back 2x12 cab with an EV12ML & a 12” ToneWorks speaker from the 90s. My other Quilter amp powers an open back cab with an Eminence Swamp Thang and a closed back cab with a Celestion BN12-300s. I’ve found this combination to be absolute magic- if covers a maximum EQ spectrum, and just running the amps at a fraction of their power handling (around 50-60 watts)it is thunderous… it brings the dead back from the grave, and keeps up with my monstrous brother the drummer! Cool video Mates! I love your content! Keep up all the wonderful nerdy gear vids. I’m a TPS fan till the end!
I have a pair at home from the early 80's, they were in a pair of McCauley stage monitors that were pretty beat up. I removed them and I put one in a 1x12" wedge cabinet for guitar. i use it with my fractal Axe FX IIXL+ and a EHX magnum 44 power amp pedal. Even with the speaker emulation on it still sounds great because its so neutral. Cheers from across the pond in Montreal, Perry, aka Techboy57
I’m late to the party but I just purchased a Fender Rivera era 1983 Concert with that has EVM 12L and it is just magic, it’s heavy as can be but magic
A really great comparison I'd like to hear would be modern high power AlNiCo drivers like the Celestion AlNiCo Cream and the Jensen Blackbird, and how they compare to both the EVM-12L and the Celestion Vintage 30. A lot of people don't realise that Celestion specifically designed the Vintage 30 to replicate as near as possible given the technology of its era, an AlNiCo Blue, albeit with higher power handling via a ceramic magnet, and for my money, until the AlNiCo Cream came out, the Vintage 30 was the closest you could get to a Blue that wouldn't self-destruct with bigger amps. But for me, the Cream is the Queen Bee, now. I haven't heard enough of the newer Jensens to have a firm opinion on them, but what I've heard is promising.
Couldn’t have timed this video better. I just purchased an EVM12L Classic!
If they did this show to tell everyone EVs sucked and they should avoid them- would you suddenly hate them? I seriously doubt it, and yet them validating your choice will no doubt make them sound even better.
@@stoneysdead689 their perspective does not matter to me. It is just interesting to hear what they have to say. I have already used the EVM12L for a couple of days and I think it sounds fantastic with a couple of specific type of guitar tones
I also need to applaud the “insert your own innuendos here” moment 👏👏👍
So the lesson learned here is that speakers and cabs make as much (if not more) difference than the guitar you plug into your amp. By the way, thank you guys for these wonderful shows, wish you all the best. Greetings from across the Channel (we do have a vintage continent: it's one channel 😎)
Mick always killin it on the Lester!
Thanks Matthew!
Awesome! I love it. Again this is an example of when your show is at its best. Indeed it was fascinating how the EV is not the best all around. Further you mentioned how a small amp caving in is not useful for Live Performance, but for recording.....INDEED. Because we are listening to a "recording" of your show, I thought the Princeton sounded awesome. This is why we need your perception of what you are hearing in the room.
Yeah man, exactly that! There’s a show coming up in a week or three that really digs into that. Recording and live - totally different sports!
@@ThatPedalShow you’re literally the only show who does this. Thank you 🙏
Thanks for a great review
In response to Jensen Speakers, I would like to add that there are a few versions of the EVM12L. The ones MB used most are the original 80's aka EVM 12L OEM with plain visible pole-plate (sometimes covered by an MB sticker)
Then you had a series II with some sort of heatsink over the magnet and back and forth iterations. The current EVM12L Classic is still a great speaker but not the same as the original. I had a lengthy discussion with a guy who worked there since the 80’s and he told me that when designing the new "classic" they had a hard time making one that sounded like the original. The pole plates were actually stamped out of a big metal sheet. (must have been a hefty machine)
As a Mesa Boogie and EV fan for at least 40 years the EVM12L has always appealed to me. I owned a Mark III with a 12L and man was this thing loud, but the Mark III circuit wasn’t nice if you wanted to switch between channels as you always had to tweak. The combo was also too heavy. Now I have a Mark V head with a single 12” closed back ported cab and a dual 12” open back.
This test here at “the pedal show” made me wanted to have an original EVM12L again so yesterday I bought two (mid 80’s) small Mesa Boogie cabinets with original 80’s EVM12L’s in it in quite a remarkable state. The cabs are really small, hardly bigger than the speaker, but I am going to try using them in my C90 loaded cabinets.
Really enjoyed this one - three times now!
Looking forward to trying similar experiments with Jenson/celestion options next time everything comes out of the garage.
Elsewhere, don't forget to mention on VCQ that Andy Timmons has arranged distribution over here again - his catalogue is back on at least one streaming service this week.
Loved this video 😎👍
Upon reflection, another take away for me as someone who is pretty attracted to resilient speakers and high headroom amps, I get how it's "courses for horses" or/and "goodness of fit". I like how so much of it is also mood related. We like some things more sometimes than others (totally remaining unclever here!).
Speaker comparison video yesss. That Vox & greenback paired veerry* well with both guitars. The Marshall sounded classic. That matchless though with it's stocked speaker mmmm, I gotta play one.
I gigged a pair of EV 12Ls in 1x12 cabs for many years with a Triaxis/395 stereo rack rig and loved that rig. IMO the best way to configure EVs for weight and handling power.
Also had the 4x12 half back C90/EV Boogie cab with a Mark IIB and later a Mark III.
Kept a Boogie 2x12 halfback just like Mick’s cab at our church with a greenback top/G75T bottom I plugged a Fender Super Champ XD into. Sounded much better than the stock speaker!
This is making me happy. Mick here. :0)
Gread sound, those ev´s are ace, I wish the old ones werent that hard to come by
Interesting comparison, i would have placed the boogie cab on its side to prevent the angled speaker from hitting you differently than the stock cabs. I’d be interested in seeing this comparison done with Mick’s Super Reverb and the Hiwatt.
Steve Harris from Iron Maiden still plays the EVM 12ls in Marshall 4x12 cabs. Can't imagine what those cabs weigh.
Holy crap. Bonamassa does too. Road crew!
I have a custom cab from Barefaced in UK with Celestian Vin30 in it; its great but I also have arriving in Malaysia from Barefaced this week the same model cab with a used 1992 EVM12S (the 300w version) in it; I'd done a lot of research online only - and decided the best thing to go for was the EVM - tho hard to find an old one.
I could hear a subtle but definite difference in your tests, It was like tasting decent Cadbury's chocolate then sampling some fine Belgium luxury chocolate, or having red wine then trying a Shiraz from South Australia! The EV is just that notch up more luxuriously indulgent and quality! Great test guys!!
Also both of you are extremely lyrical and creatively interesting players with massive talent! Im gonna rip off plenty of those riffs and harmonies you played on here - sound great!
I have two cabinets 4x . One of them has 4 x greenback 1970 and the other one a pair of Ev12’ classic and pair of Ev12l. I’d say the green back is better. I love both but greenback has more balance between low middle high frequencies in general. Great job guys !!
Mix and match maybe ? Celestions and EVs together Maybe TPS will try that next
Interesting stuff. Certainly confirms that speakers are a huge slice of the "tone pie"!
Fab exploration - Killer tones with the EV (excepting the Harshall which sounded fab with the Matchless cab)... Cheers 😎
Oh, the Princeton into the Boogie cab with the Tele is marvelous. OOF, I could use that sound all day long. That's a sound to write whole songs around. I'm not so much a fam of the Vox, but it did sound nice into the Boogie with the LP turned down, a great jazz sound. Mick putting the LP into its center position really proves for me that pretty much all guitars that aren't Strats sound their best with both pickups on (personal opinion, of course).
I don't know why, but I definitely liked the Celestion for the heavy stuff. Creative choice for show topic!
I have a two EV SROs in a late 60s era fender 2x12 cab. I love em. Alnico magnets. Not a ton more volume. Nice smooth sounding speaker. I use it often with a Marshall clone 18w head. I never knew many people to love this model you are demoing. Many due to the weight. I do not recall anyone loving it other than steel guitarists.
In the 90's, when I couldn't afford a 4X12, I built a slant, vertical 2X12 that was the same dimensions, out of plywood and 2X4's. it just worked out that I completely enclosed the bottom speaker and left the top open - like it shows at :55 here. I think I put G12T-75's in it. You always remember when a piece of gear makes you go "Wow!" I don't know why but it sounded fantastic. I generally hate big cabs for every reason except one - sound. Heavy, take up room, hard to move around (get CASTERS!). Some would also say loud but I say not necessarily. A big cab sounds big - without resorting to high volume. The only small cab I like is the Mesa Mini-Rec slant 1X12. I don't understand why, but man that thing sounds big.