Just to emphasise some of the points made at the end of your video that I think were significant, specifically around the artificer and armor regen. My standard legendary gear is Foundry Bulwark with Ninjabike (to make a 6 core shield and buff the Artificer a bit), Artificer Hive, and a fair bit of Armor regen. As long as you are positioned correctly (not exposed from the side or back) this can take an extraordinary amount of damage. Its TTK is low but it has three red cores and is firing constantly. Obviously this is for groups, and the aim is to take the heat off the DPS, or get in the face of heavies.
Group play allows for a bit more specialisation of role. Solo, you're a one-man army and have to find a way to get the best of everything. It's a tough balancing act.
Im going to go with a third option and vote Survivalist. Status application is significantly more important and common at legendary difficulty so it just turns into free damage for the squad and excess specialization ammo for you. Unlike the mini-gun and the rocket launcher, the crossbow's massive damage to armor plates makes it great at any difficulty. On top of all of that, you get an armor kit that heals the squad.
You are on a whole different level. The question is Do I take the Red pill or the Blue pill? Man that rabbit hole is deep. No pun intended. Keep up the GREAT work. You got a new sub... 😃
@@fogowar2022 Pass the smile onto someone in someway today, we need more smiles..... After watching the video l committed D2 heresy l took my coyote/fox/4 striker... then rerolled the 4 striker cores to skill tiers; changed the knees to emperors guard; equipped Kard custom; changed spec from gunner to technician and equipped the artificer hive. A rocky start, but once the striker stacks are up, its quite nuts - 450k crits with a single red core, and the ability to slam them into target thanks to a crusader shield that soaks up rounds; an almost perfect hybrid. It is helped by the shield is expertised to 16, gear pieces to 12
Awesome research and content as always. I use technician but I really appreciate all of the data and hard work you put into these videos! Thanks again.
Ahahah, nice! I just saw your response to one of my comments and was thinking "man, I hope fog puts out a new video soon." Flipped to notifications and turns out...
Good work. I've flipped between Gunner and Technician since your last video just to feel it out and Gunner just compliments strikers better. plus the weapon handling from cover to cover suits my playstyle from mid to long range with Elmo's and Coyote. I pair the shield with repair drone so it compliments the armour on kill. Using artificer hive and a tier 2 shield still feels too squishy and not strong enough to keep the shield uptime high enough to stay out of cover for extended periods of time. I think of the shield as a quick deployment between cover to cover moves or when I get flanked and need to reposition. If you use the shield to push you get yourself in trouble and throw away any survivability. Look forward to your next vid
If you use the lefty you get to use an extra attachment slot, rolling rate of fire on the lefty and having the extra mod slot paired with strikers gives it a lot of rpm and gets you max strikers stacks really fast
My farming shield build: Tech - Ninja/2 x Palisade (red cores with chc/chd) /Picaros/Fenris/Walker - obliterate with capacitor, shield and artificer. 6 red cores, 4 yellow, 2 blue. Heroic all day and I tested at the front door of Distric Union legendary with nary a problem. I'm sure it could be better with some tweeks but I'm not smart enough.
I've tried them both extensively, in group play we need 3 gunners 1 skill guy/one AOE attacker one or the other. Fire/Explosions/shock something to slow them down and let the DPS guys do their magic. Playing alone, They both feel equal to me however with my playstyle I play the Gunner much better, the one thing not taking into account is most guys using the Technician will usually go for 2 skill cores or more to get into the third level, plus use a weapon that raises the Skill levels to the point of overcharge.
Team dynamics are interesting and a mixed pool of strengths always seems to produce the best results. I'll look into the hybrid Technician setups at some point.
Interesting analysis but I was left with two questions: is flatline with the recent buff from project resolve not a reasonable alternative to St Elmo and watching solo legendary speedruns I mostly see decoys and emp sticky as a secondary most of the times. The decoys and the time it allows you to freely shot at NPCs might need a another analysis as well. Nonetheless another great video and discussion. Please keep producing these
We'll find out in the next video about your first question. I am curious why you think Flatline got a buff. From my perspective, it got a nerf (kept the same damage but now self-procs every 4 [instead of 3] enemies. I will be taking a look at skill choices again down the track. We're starting with the most "Damage" and slowly picking it apart.
From memory, I think I've heard you refer to this similarly as "Micro-Damage". I love the term. A lot of what I "math" is just leading to the same conclusions that people like yourself have already realised by simply testing and experimenting. It's why I love your channel.
Both of you guys are awesome, thank you for the time you dedicate to helping the community and spreading a completely non toxic attitude 👍 More people should take heed.
Good question but I didn't put a lot of thought into them. 25% armour doesn't even cover the average damage taken from 1 x enemy (on a 6 red core build). It could have potential on a higher armour build (over 1M armour) but, IMO, not enough merit to warrant another rabbit hole at this point.
I used to be technician build guy in some situations it is better to use, but I really miss the 10% armor on kill from gunner for the majority of my game play if I'm using a different specialization.
I found it interesting to realise how the AoK actually allows you to extend the shield duration and health. Something I wouldn't have realised without jumping down the rabbit hole. When you're used to them, the Gunner benefits are hard to live without.
I know we are several videos away from the video I want to see, if that video is indeed produced. The testing involved would drive me mad lol. I would run technician. I wouldn't be running the chest or backpack of strikers. I would be running momento bag and ceska chest w/ obliterate. And, I wouldn't be running Elmo's, I'd run an ACR w/ preservation. VS the control build of 5 or 6 red strikers, shield and booster...I would like to believe my setup would result in more unrestricted killing time. I get that there will be less dmg output on my setup and ammo could become a concern if im running 2 ARs, but I never run 2 of the same wep type. So, idk. I guess, to sum up my perspective, in my head, hybridizing the strikers results in more time killing, less time recovering from the unrestricted kill windows.
I'm trying not to barrel ahead. I'll try to let the numbers lead the way but it's so complicated that I have to do it peicemeal, which does slow the process. I am learning stuff along the way though. I hope everyone gets something from the journey.
@fogowar2022 I love this series. And I am definitely learning from your experiences. I don't mean to barrel ahead, but years of div2 have got me feeling, and I don't mean to sound elitist, more advanced than a 6 red build of any setup. As a solo player, the momento is worth it's weight in gold. But, I digress.
Highly informative content as always, Fog. Thank you for the hard work. Not to muddy the water even further in your search for The Meta, but I'm wondering: If we change to an AR (say, Police M4) with Preservation or the Eagle Bearer for enhanced survivability, does that then make one specialization preferable? Furthermore, broadly, does a change in weapon talent liberate us to make alterations to the DPS Meta that actually make it more effective overall, which is to say, lend the build increased DPS and survivability?
There are heaps of changes we could make to the damage Meta. We'll tackle as many as I can stomach along the way. I imagine we will have to revisit many times, as one change can have second and third order effects, that require us to rejig the build, over and over again.
On a all red your shield is doing jack shit and breaks in seconds these days a tank hybrid is best and there are multiple different types than can do legendary
I can solo Legendaries with all sorts of builds. Many without a shield. You may be right that a tank hybrid is best but it's going to take a few videos to try to prove that.
Depends on how you use it. You can't turtle behind it, but you can treat it almost like on demand Unbreakable talent if you use it reactively or an on-demand Vanguard Talent if you use it proactively.
Fun breakdown - thanks for putting this together for us
Just to emphasise some of the points made at the end of your video that I think were significant, specifically around the artificer and armor regen. My standard legendary gear is Foundry Bulwark with Ninjabike (to make a 6 core shield and buff the Artificer a bit), Artificer Hive, and a fair bit of Armor regen. As long as you are positioned correctly (not exposed from the side or back) this can take an extraordinary amount of damage. Its TTK is low but it has three red cores and is firing constantly. Obviously this is for groups, and the aim is to take the heat off the DPS, or get in the face of heavies.
Group play allows for a bit more specialisation of role. Solo, you're a one-man army and have to find a way to get the best of everything. It's a tough balancing act.
Im going to go with a third option and vote Survivalist.
Status application is significantly more important and common at legendary difficulty so it just turns into free damage for the squad and excess specialization ammo for you.
Unlike the mini-gun and the rocket launcher, the crossbow's massive damage to armor plates makes it great at any difficulty.
On top of all of that, you get an armor kit that heals the squad.
I agree for group play.
You are on a whole different level. The question is Do I take the Red pill or the Blue pill? Man that rabbit hole is deep. No pun intended. Keep up the GREAT work. You got a new sub... 😃
FOG... you have a gunners soul and a technicians mind. Awesome content based on facts, thanks for sharing.
I'm a sucker for a good pun. Made my day. Thanks Kev.
@@fogowar2022 Pass the smile onto someone in someway today, we need more smiles.....
After watching the video l committed D2 heresy
l took my coyote/fox/4 striker... then rerolled the 4 striker cores to skill tiers; changed the knees to emperors guard; equipped Kard custom; changed spec from gunner to technician and equipped the artificer hive.
A rocky start, but once the striker stacks are up, its quite nuts - 450k crits with a single red core, and the ability to slam them into target thanks to a crusader shield that soaks up rounds; an almost perfect hybrid.
It is helped by the shield is expertised to 16, gear pieces to 12
Awesome research and content as always. I use technician but I really appreciate all of the data and hard work you put into these videos! Thanks again.
Ahahah, nice! I just saw your response to one of my comments and was thinking "man, I hope fog puts out a new video soon." Flipped to notifications and turns out...
Good work. I've flipped between Gunner and Technician since your last video just to feel it out and Gunner just compliments strikers better. plus the weapon handling from cover to cover suits my playstyle from mid to long range with Elmo's and Coyote.
I pair the shield with repair drone so it compliments the armour on kill. Using artificer hive and a tier 2 shield still feels too squishy and not strong enough to keep the shield uptime high enough to stay out of cover for extended periods of time. I think of the shield as a quick deployment between cover to cover moves or when I get flanked and need to reposition. If you use the shield to push you get yourself in trouble and throw away any survivability. Look forward to your next vid
I can relate and generally feel and play the same way.
If you use the lefty you get to use an extra attachment slot, rolling rate of fire on the lefty and having the extra mod slot paired with strikers gives it a lot of rpm and gets you max strikers stacks really fast
Provided you can be close enough, there is no faster way to stack.
Technician is my choice.
Great video. Keep up the great content 💯💯
My farming shield build: Tech - Ninja/2 x Palisade (red cores with chc/chd) /Picaros/Fenris/Walker - obliterate with capacitor, shield and artificer. 6 red cores, 4 yellow, 2 blue.
Heroic all day and I tested at the front door of Distric Union legendary with nary a problem. I'm sure it could be better with some tweeks but I'm not smart enough.
Sounds pretty solid.
I've tried them both extensively, in group play we need 3 gunners 1 skill guy/one AOE attacker one or the other. Fire/Explosions/shock something to slow them down and let the DPS guys do their magic. Playing alone, They both feel equal to me however with my playstyle I play the Gunner much better, the one thing not taking into account is most guys using the Technician will usually go for 2 skill cores or more to get into the third level, plus use a weapon that raises the Skill levels to the point of overcharge.
Team dynamics are interesting and a mixed pool of strengths always seems to produce the best results. I'll look into the hybrid Technician setups at some point.
Gunner with a typical Striker/weapon build (AR/shield). Technician with a skill damage build (Capacitor/drone/turret)
Gunner for me too. Good video 😮
I run Gunner for group support/patriot build due banshee pulse being an amaze CC but for solo DPS I prefer a lot Tech spec due skill tier on shield.
Do you run Tech with the Artificer?
Interesting analysis but I was left with two questions: is flatline with the recent buff from project resolve not a reasonable alternative to St Elmo and watching solo legendary speedruns I mostly see decoys and emp sticky as a secondary most of the times. The decoys and the time it allows you to freely shot at NPCs might need a another analysis as well. Nonetheless another great video and discussion. Please keep producing these
We'll find out in the next video about your first question. I am curious why you think Flatline got a buff. From my perspective, it got a nerf (kept the same damage but now self-procs every 4 [instead of 3] enemies.
I will be taking a look at skill choices again down the track. We're starting with the most "Damage" and slowly picking it apart.
@@fogowar2022 I meant some ARs got a buff and since using technician might be competitive with flatline against St Elmo.
@@elfmz Thanks for clarifying. I thought I'd missed something in the update. You will definitely have your answer in the next video.
Love the average hp breakdown. Bravo.
From memory, I think I've heard you refer to this similarly as "Micro-Damage". I love the term. A lot of what I "math" is just leading to the same conclusions that people like yourself have already realised by simply testing and experimenting. It's why I love your channel.
Both of you guys are awesome, thank you for the time you dedicate to helping the community and spreading a completely non toxic attitude 👍
More people should take heed.
Heya nice vid as always
curious if you thought about the insta medkits that give you armor back partially and if that changes the outcome ? :D
Good question but I didn't put a lot of thought into them. 25% armour doesn't even cover the average damage taken from 1 x enemy (on a 6 red core build). It could have potential on a higher armour build (over 1M armour) but, IMO, not enough merit to warrant another rabbit hole at this point.
@@fogowar2022 true, another thing is how many players even use the new feature honestly ive used only couple times and prolly by accident
@@skuko4432 I almost forgot it was a thing. Hahah
I used to be technician build guy in some situations it is better to use, but I really miss the 10% armor on kill from gunner for the majority of my game play if I'm using a different specialization.
I found it interesting to realise how the AoK actually allows you to extend the shield duration and health. Something I wouldn't have realised without jumping down the rabbit hole. When you're used to them, the Gunner benefits are hard to live without.
I know we are several videos away from the video I want to see, if that video is indeed produced. The testing involved would drive me mad lol.
I would run technician. I wouldn't be running the chest or backpack of strikers. I would be running momento bag and ceska chest w/ obliterate. And, I wouldn't be running Elmo's, I'd run an ACR w/ preservation.
VS the control build of 5 or 6 red strikers, shield and booster...I would like to believe my setup would result in more unrestricted killing time. I get that there will be less dmg output on my setup and ammo could become a concern if im running 2 ARs, but I never run 2 of the same wep type. So, idk.
I guess, to sum up my perspective, in my head, hybridizing the strikers results in more time killing, less time recovering from the unrestricted kill windows.
I'm trying not to barrel ahead. I'll try to let the numbers lead the way but it's so complicated that I have to do it peicemeal, which does slow the process. I am learning stuff along the way though. I hope everyone gets something from the journey.
@fogowar2022
I love this series. And I am definitely learning from your experiences.
I don't mean to barrel ahead, but years of div2 have got me feeling, and I don't mean to sound elitist, more advanced than a 6 red build of any setup. As a solo player, the momento is worth it's weight in gold. But, I digress.
The Memento is on my list of videos for the near future.
Highly informative content as always, Fog. Thank you for the hard work.
Not to muddy the water even further in your search for The Meta, but I'm wondering: If we change to an AR (say, Police M4) with Preservation or the Eagle Bearer for enhanced survivability, does that then make one specialization preferable? Furthermore, broadly, does a change in weapon talent liberate us to make alterations to the DPS Meta that actually make it more effective overall, which is to say, lend the build increased DPS and survivability?
There are heaps of changes we could make to the damage Meta. We'll tackle as many as I can stomach along the way. I imagine we will have to revisit many times, as one change can have second and third order effects, that require us to rejig the build, over and over again.
That makes sense. I admire your courage and fortitude in endeavouring to unearth The Meta!@@fogowar2022
On a all red your shield is doing jack shit and breaks in seconds these days a tank hybrid is best and there are multiple different types than can do legendary
I can solo Legendaries with all sorts of builds. Many without a shield. You may be right that a tank hybrid is best but it's going to take a few videos to try to prove that.
Depends on how you use it. You can't turtle behind it, but you can treat it almost like on demand Unbreakable talent if you use it reactively or an on-demand Vanguard Talent if you use it proactively.
First!
Lol
You had the first 6 comments ;)