"We didn't want proliferating shield counters to be the primary way that people experienced these pre-cons." ROFL the first two times I played this deck basically all I did all game was proliferate shield counters. I won both of those games! This pre-con is a powerhouse of a deck, it is super fun to play. Love this series so far!
Yeah just got done playing against this deck on spelltable dude literally played it out the box dunno if he won cuz it came down to him and one other guy but it was very good with absolutely no add ins. The shield counters are kinda like hexproof cuz no one wanted to waste their removal on it cuz it was pointless.
@@TheHomieNess kinda surprised this set didn't also feature removal options that deal two or more instances of damage, to help chip through shield counters
I greatly enjoy things like this. The process behind creating and changing cards, themes, and mechanics is always interesting to me. It also could help with people that buy the precon and don't understand why a certain card is in the deck.
Been having fun pouring my dice all over my board and having 5 shield counters on all my creatures. One of my favourite pieces of tech is using Resourceful Defense to turn my basics into counter batteries for Perrie. Having an Island with an hour counter, a -0/-1 counter, a deathtouch counter and a point counter is so stupid out of context but very effective for him.
I listened to this episode on Spotify and I enjoyed learning how the proverbial sausage is made. I'd love to hear more about the development of these decks please.
I enjoyed this episode, although I'd liked to hear a little mit more about some of the reprint choices. In general those longer episodes like your show with Melissa or your opening videos offer a very nice in depth view on the game design.
Great to have this series. Those newly released cards are still fresh in the designer mind so we'll get more stories and banter. The duration also seem right. An hour for 17 new cards. I won't mind a sixth episode which talks about the in and outs and challenges in clobbering this 5 precons together.
I thought Damning Verdict was a reprint initially. Perrie is the commander from NCC that I'd be most likely to build, really leaning into obscure counters. the designs for this build of the Brokers deck are really interesting, and good tools for other proliferate/counters decks. I like this style of video, diving deep on design insights while highlighting each deck. I say strike while the iron's hot, but I also look forward to whenever Gavin & Melissa get to NCC in Commander Chronicles
Great new series, an interesting complement to the Melissa series in being a deep dive on current EDH product. It's great to see Chris's enthusiasm and find out the various motivations for the cards. We're in more cohesive times than some of the older product, for example it'd have been cool to hear what was the designers' motivation behind including Tectonic Hellion or whatever other oddball card. My feelings toward these decks are ambivalent - on one hand the cards are very inspired and lead to what may well be the best entry to the series since it got plane-bound, but on the other the fact that six of my seven active decks got new includes is worrying to me. That is way above average, and WAR taught me that it's not actually necessarily great to have such high new card rates. It's probably more a case of themes luckily aligning. Perrie has that super cool jank vibe where you read him and you just can't help but love the guy. It's awesome when you tap into that sort of fresh space. I tossed together a list within a day of him being spoiled, so I missed pretty much all of the new tech that the deck had on offer (Agent's Toolkit would have been amazing, such a cool card). The build was actually oddly functional - turns out you can run weird counter-based draw like Tome of Legends, counter-based ramp like the aforementioned Wall of Roots, and you can hobble together a board state that kind of does something. However, Perrie's payoff being combat pump greatly narrowed down possible gameplay avenues, and I ultimately ended up with a voltron shell that wore out its welcome before long. It was a nice Scryfall exercise, fun to dig out the various bizarre counters (personal favourite weirdo Coral Reef says hi), but ultimately didn't transition to paper. However, you did a good job pitching the precon here, I might pick up a copy just to have around unmodified. I think the counter wipe should have cost 6, putting it more in line with Extinguish All Hope or even Winds of Abandon. Having counters on creatures is not that hard a condition to work toward, while asymmetric wipes are devastating and should be expensive to rip or come with very narrow clauses. The fact this got nudged to 5 has me thinking that there's some slight pushing going on in the set. Thankfully it is on narrow cards, and it's not quite as heavy as some prior undercosted narrow designs of relatively recent years. Unfortunately Family's Favor does not interact well with trample, the shield counter is gone by the time the damage is dealt to the player. That is a bummer, but the card is nevertheless going to join my Saryth "cool tramply stuff" deck as it helps with my swingers dying to random deathtouch chumps. Plus hey, it might occasionally net me an extra card if people don't feel like putting chumps in the way. It's a nice and inspired design. Finally, thank you for not calling this C22. The series has not been the same since you bound it to planes, and while it's cool in its own way it's a different thing.
It's a great video Gavin. It's a bit different from the commander chronicles series where you talk about decks as cycles. I'd love to hear more stories about development of cards alone
I just realized that damning verdict is a pun: it destroys creatures without counters, and the flavor text is “guilty as charged.” That’s really smart.
Really enjoyed this video. I would love to see Chris bring back Outlast, Bolster, and/or Megamorph from Khans block. Even though these weren't fan favorites, I personally really liked them and would love to see them return. More Outlast cards in the vein of Herald of Anafenza would be awesome. As for more videos on the other Commander decks, I would like to see how the Obscura deck came to be. Thanks!
Gavin! Great video as always! Can you please give us a "Duelist Style" Sneak preview of some of the Stuff we will see in the Commander Legends: Battle for Baldur's Gate, similar to how MaRo does it? I know you usually do these; I can't wait to see what's in store!
Nice to have a Rataxes in the commandzone. I hope we get a bant Babar loxodon legend so we can expand this theme (Hamza kinda doesn't count as he's only selesnya)
I would love to see them for the decks from now on. I would especially love to see the one for dungeons of death from adventures in the forgotten realms or even the AFC decks in general as I thought they were amazing.
Magic is a game of study. You have to study the new cards, find synergies, study cards in play, monitor everything happening on the battlefield. It's like being in university. But the WORDINESS of the cards in New Capenna (really since Strixhaven) and the FIREHOSE pace of new releases makes it feel like my course load has doubled. It's not fun anymore. Anybody else just feel like dropping out?
Still hanging on but I stopped reading all the cards in a new release which I usually did. Now I rarely even draft the new set, and much more rarely study for the draft.
Love this! A lot of intriguing design philosophy and a lot more interesting to me as a new player. Unrelated question: do you know who designed Eyetwitch (Strixhaven)? It has a very similar vibe to “Grey Eyebat” a card from the discontinued Card Wars game.
Does every legendary in New Capenna need at least 9 lines of text? And I include reminder text because it's text. Reminder text doesn't help if it doesn't remind you of something you learned previously, and we don't have time to learn the Connive and Casualty and whatever else because of how fast new releases come out. We barely spend any time with any mechanics. Maybe if you play Standard you'll see the cards a few times to learn them, but that's not the main way people play magic. Tracking four player's battlefields of each having 62 unique spells is exhausting enough, now everything needs 9 lines of text. Ugh.
I love Denry's design, that is a fun card. I like Perrie, but I wish he were at least a 4/4 or didnt require attacking to use the effect. Since youre building this entire multi-counter strategy around his ability, he's a little too fragile to be acting as both a lightning rod for your deck's strategy and simultaneously an almost a voltron-style commander. It makes the deck's strategy feel less focusable, youre forced to cover too many bases to be effective enough in higher powered games.
Actually, listening to this interview made me like this deck a lot more. The commander is really unique and I especially like the synergy with storage and depleation lands. However, it has not really an interesting upgrade path, since the theme is not very strong. Also, the bookkeeping in the gameplay does not feel very "brokers". People are more expecting a strategy where you would break parety on rule effects like rule of law and Thalia.
Re: returning mechanics - plEASE bring back modular as a keyword. I know it got some love in MH2, but I'm dying for some more colourless modular friends ;~;
It feels like the Design talent for the actually set was no where near as talented as the talent that worked in the commander product. What is even the point of Premiere sets and the Standard format if all the fun cool cards, that COULD be in the main set, are NOT in the main set and therefore standard players don't get to use them. The main sett is extremely unintersting. And I AM NOT SAYING to raise the power level of the cards. I am saying design better designs. The power level of the set is fine, but the cards are not doing anything even remotely interesting. But the commander cards of a same power level are way way more interesting. But standard players will never get to use them.... who is making decisions on where the talent has to be on these products? Because they only put weak designers on the actual premiere sets, (NEO being the huge stand out and clearly had much more talented designers than Streets.)
![Eminem - Temporary (feat. Skylar Grey) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZaK9Wi5ho0o/mqdefault.jpg)
Would love to see more like this!
Would love to see this done with the Obscura deck!!
"We didn't want proliferating shield counters to be the primary way that people experienced these pre-cons." ROFL the first two times I played this deck basically all I did all game was proliferate shield counters. I won both of those games! This pre-con is a powerhouse of a deck, it is super fun to play. Love this series so far!
Yeah just got done playing against this deck on spelltable dude literally played it out the box dunno if he won cuz it came down to him and one other guy but it was very good with absolutely no add ins. The shield counters are kinda like hexproof cuz no one wanted to waste their removal on it cuz it was pointless.
@@TheHomieNess kinda surprised this set didn't also feature removal options that deal two or more instances of damage, to help chip through shield counters
I'd definitely want to see more of these, especially about Maestros Massacre, my personal favorite :)
I greatly enjoy things like this. The process behind creating and changing cards, themes, and mechanics is always interesting to me. It also could help with people that buy the precon and don't understand why a certain card is in the deck.
I loooooove returning mechanics in interesting one-off ways! Those commander decks were spot on! Great work and congrats Chris!
I would love to see more of this series! Unfortunately New Capenna is three sets ago now....
Very interesting to see the insights of the new decks !
Looking forward the other deck, especially the the riveteer one.
This video made me like the Brokers enough to get this deck. Thanks for the insight and keep it going!
That's awesome! Glad you enjoyed it.
Been having fun pouring my dice all over my board and having 5 shield counters on all my creatures. One of my favourite pieces of tech is using Resourceful Defense to turn my basics into counter batteries for Perrie. Having an Island with an hour counter, a -0/-1 counter, a deathtouch counter and a point counter is so stupid out of context but very effective for him.
I listened to this episode on Spotify and I enjoyed learning how the proverbial sausage is made. I'd love to hear more about the development of these decks please.
Really liked this, its really cool to learn the thought process that goes behind making these decks.
I enjoyed this episode, although I'd liked to hear a little mit more about some of the reprint choices. In general those longer episodes like your show with Melissa or your opening videos offer a very nice in depth view on the game design.
Great to have this series. Those newly released cards are still fresh in the designer mind so we'll get more stories and banter.
The duration also seem right. An hour for 17 new cards.
I won't mind a sixth episode which talks about the in and outs and challenges in clobbering this 5 precons together.
I'd love to see more of these! I like getting these behind-the-scenes type of videos that give insight into how design thinks
The Riveteers deck is my favorite, but I would love seeing one of these for every deck.
I actually think you aced these designs! Amazing to hear the reasoning behind the designs!
I thought Damning Verdict was a reprint initially. Perrie is the commander from NCC that I'd be most likely to build, really leaning into obscure counters. the designs for this build of the Brokers deck are really interesting, and good tools for other proliferate/counters decks.
I like this style of video, diving deep on design insights while highlighting each deck. I say strike while the iron's hot, but I also look forward to whenever Gavin & Melissa get to NCC in Commander Chronicles
Would love to see this for the riveteer and the maestro deck
Keep the series going Gavin - it's fantastic!
Its officially unofficial that 'Banding' is making a comeback! Can't wait to see it in the D&D Commander precon deck! Also working with 'Party' 😉
Great new series, an interesting complement to the Melissa series in being a deep dive on current EDH product. It's great to see Chris's enthusiasm and find out the various motivations for the cards. We're in more cohesive times than some of the older product, for example it'd have been cool to hear what was the designers' motivation behind including Tectonic Hellion or whatever other oddball card. My feelings toward these decks are ambivalent - on one hand the cards are very inspired and lead to what may well be the best entry to the series since it got plane-bound, but on the other the fact that six of my seven active decks got new includes is worrying to me. That is way above average, and WAR taught me that it's not actually necessarily great to have such high new card rates. It's probably more a case of themes luckily aligning.
Perrie has that super cool jank vibe where you read him and you just can't help but love the guy. It's awesome when you tap into that sort of fresh space. I tossed together a list within a day of him being spoiled, so I missed pretty much all of the new tech that the deck had on offer (Agent's Toolkit would have been amazing, such a cool card). The build was actually oddly functional - turns out you can run weird counter-based draw like Tome of Legends, counter-based ramp like the aforementioned Wall of Roots, and you can hobble together a board state that kind of does something. However, Perrie's payoff being combat pump greatly narrowed down possible gameplay avenues, and I ultimately ended up with a voltron shell that wore out its welcome before long. It was a nice Scryfall exercise, fun to dig out the various bizarre counters (personal favourite weirdo Coral Reef says hi), but ultimately didn't transition to paper. However, you did a good job pitching the precon here, I might pick up a copy just to have around unmodified.
I think the counter wipe should have cost 6, putting it more in line with Extinguish All Hope or even Winds of Abandon. Having counters on creatures is not that hard a condition to work toward, while asymmetric wipes are devastating and should be expensive to rip or come with very narrow clauses. The fact this got nudged to 5 has me thinking that there's some slight pushing going on in the set. Thankfully it is on narrow cards, and it's not quite as heavy as some prior undercosted narrow designs of relatively recent years.
Unfortunately Family's Favor does not interact well with trample, the shield counter is gone by the time the damage is dealt to the player. That is a bummer, but the card is nevertheless going to join my Saryth "cool tramply stuff" deck as it helps with my swingers dying to random deathtouch chumps. Plus hey, it might occasionally net me an extra card if people don't feel like putting chumps in the way. It's a nice and inspired design.
Finally, thank you for not calling this C22. The series has not been the same since you bound it to planes, and while it's cool in its own way it's a different thing.
It's a great video Gavin. It's a bit different from the commander chronicles series where you talk about decks as cycles. I'd love to hear more stories about development of cards alone
I just realized that damning verdict is a pun: it destroys creatures without counters, and the flavor text is “guilty as charged.” That’s really smart.
Love these deep dives into commander design!
I would definitely watch more videos about the other decks.
Really enjoyed this video. I would love to see Chris bring back Outlast, Bolster, and/or Megamorph from Khans block. Even though these weren't fan favorites, I personally really liked them and would love to see them return. More Outlast cards in the vein of Herald of Anafenza would be awesome. As for more videos on the other Commander decks, I would like to see how the Obscura deck came to be. Thanks!
Gavin! Great video as always! Can you please give us a "Duelist Style" Sneak preview of some of the Stuff we will see in the Commander Legends: Battle for Baldur's Gate, similar to how MaRo does it? I know you usually do these; I can't wait to see what's in store!
Would love to see more!
Nice to have a Rataxes in the commandzone. I hope we get a bant Babar loxodon legend so we can expand this theme (Hamza kinda doesn't count as he's only selesnya)
I would love to see the other 4 decks!
Feedback, I'd like a bit more coverage of what the reprints are and why/how they were chosen.
I would love to see them for the decks from now on. I would especially love to see the one for dungeons of death from adventures in the forgotten realms or even the AFC decks in general as I thought they were amazing.
I missed the Arcane Spells and Splice into Arcane in the last Kamigawa Set =(
Would love for you to do the rest of families Commander decks.
Regarding 23:00, I really loved adapt, and I hope we see more cards like Sharktocrab and Growth Chamber Guardian in the future
Magic is a game of study. You have to study the new cards, find synergies, study cards in play, monitor everything happening on the battlefield. It's like being in university. But the WORDINESS of the cards in New Capenna (really since Strixhaven) and the FIREHOSE pace of new releases makes it feel like my course load has doubled. It's not fun anymore. Anybody else just feel like dropping out?
Still hanging on but I stopped reading all the cards in a new release which I usually did. Now I rarely even draft the new set, and much more rarely study for the draft.
No lol.
Yes, more please
I would like to see more of this on the other decks :)
Great Video! Why weren’t the tri lands from this set not included in each commander precons?
Love this! A lot of intriguing design philosophy and a lot more interesting to me as a new player.
Unrelated question: do you know who designed Eyetwitch (Strixhaven)? It has a very similar vibe to “Grey Eyebat” a card from the discontinued Card Wars game.
I hope you publish this as a podcast!
Just saw that you did, thank you!
Always interested in design content!
yes more, love Chris and their work!
Chris uses they/them pronouns
LMAO at (temporal) pincer maneuver.
Does every legendary in New Capenna need at least 9 lines of text? And I include reminder text because it's text. Reminder text doesn't help if it doesn't remind you of something you learned previously, and we don't have time to learn the Connive and Casualty and whatever else because of how fast new releases come out. We barely spend any time with any mechanics. Maybe if you play Standard you'll see the cards a few times to learn them, but that's not the main way people play magic. Tracking four player's battlefields of each having 62 unique spells is exhausting enough, now everything needs 9 lines of text. Ugh.
I would like to hear about obscura operation
I love Denry's design, that is a fun card. I like Perrie, but I wish he were at least a 4/4 or didnt require attacking to use the effect. Since youre building this entire multi-counter strategy around his ability, he's a little too fragile to be acting as both a lightning rod for your deck's strategy and simultaneously an almost a voltron-style commander. It makes the deck's strategy feel less focusable, youre forced to cover too many bases to be effective enough in higher powered games.
Kind of surprised that Bounty of the Luxa was not included
Dang, Gavin's zip up hoodie looks comfy.
Love this series. Can we have one for the kamigawa buckle up precon?
Would love to see this and would love to see partner with on more non legends
I like how they did not do the rest of the decks, because by the time they would have gotten to the third they would have to hype Baldur's Gate
This was great
Also, Lin Sivvi needs new toys!!!!!
Please do this for the obscura deck
Riveteers Rampage next please
Actually, listening to this interview made me like this deck a lot more. The commander is really unique and I especially like the synergy with storage and depleation lands.
However, it has not really an interesting upgrade path, since the theme is not very strong. Also, the bookkeeping in the gameplay does not feel very "brokers". People are more expecting a strategy where you would break parety on rule effects like rule of law and Thalia.
It might not have a very *strong* upgrade path, but it's certainly interesting! There are hundreds of weird counters that you can put in this deck.
@@andrewharrison5801 yes, totally agree. This is a deck that will look very different depending on the player. Very unique.
Obscura!
Re: returning mechanics - plEASE bring back modular as a keyword. I know it got some love in MH2, but I'm dying for some more colourless modular friends ;~;
Where can I get Gavin’s hoodie?
Mtgproshop.com!
Where are the mercenaries on Streets of New Capenna?
For the Next deck I vote for Maestro
Why does it say they/them after his name?
It feels like the Design talent for the actually set was no where near as talented as the talent that worked in the commander product. What is even the point of Premiere sets and the Standard format if all the fun cool cards, that COULD be in the main set, are NOT in the main set and therefore standard players don't get to use them. The main sett is extremely unintersting. And I AM NOT SAYING to raise the power level of the cards. I am saying design better designs. The power level of the set is fine, but the cards are not doing anything even remotely interesting. But the commander cards of a same power level are way way more interesting. But standard players will never get to use them.... who is making decisions on where the talent has to be on these products? Because they only put weak designers on the actual premiere sets, (NEO being the huge stand out and clearly had much more talented designers than Streets.)
There are people that are in charge of color identity? You guys need to talk with the person in charge of green xD